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No.403144 [Last50 Posts]
Since we've been so impolitely driven out of the Chess Thread. Here is a new thread for Go.
I started playing about 2 years ago, but bob in and out of Go frenzies and burnout breaks that last months. As such I'm only about 21-18 kyu. I have a physical board but no one to play with, so I normally play on OGS. How long have you guys been playing? Where do you play normally? Post boards and books! I might occasionally post Go puzzles too, just to spite the chessfags who closed their borders to us.
Let's not make the Tengen joke again. It's been old for thousands of years
____________________________
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No.403198
I picked the game up 3 years ago, but played about 20 games over the space of the next 2 years. Since last August I've played a lot more and have just hit 6 kyu. I have a local-ish club that I attend usually every week, but other than that you'll find me on OGS and KGS mostly as that's where I began. I'll occasionally poke my head into IGS or Tygem - but not regularly.
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No.403220
Reposting the rules from the other thread if any anons want to learn how to play.
Board looks like Pic 1, the game starts with an empty board. Board sizes can vary, but the most common is 19x19, but 13x13 and 9x9 are played too. 9x9 is good for beginners since 19x19 is pretty huge.
There are two players, black and white. There is only 1 type of piece: a stone.
The game begins with an empty board and both players take turns placing 1 stone on the board which is the only type of move.
Turn order is backwards from chess, Black moves first.
Stones are played on the cross points of the board instead of on spaces. When someone says a board is 19x19, they're counting line intersections, not spaces
The point of the game is to enclose more empty points on the board than your opponent. This is referred to as Territory. If you surround an enemy stone completely it is captured and removed from the game. Captures are worth 1 point, and a point of territory is worth 1 point.
If you place stones adjacent to each other, your opponent has to capture all of them at once. You can make long chains that are hard to capture because of this.
Pic 2 depicts a scenario where both players can trade a piece back and forth forever. To prevent this there is a rule called "Ko" which states that the board can never be in the same state twice. So if black captures White's stone by playing at A, then on White's turn, playing at B is an illegal move until he plays somewhere else. After he plays somewhere else and black plays again, playing at B is legal again.
White gets 6.5 points for free in compensation for going 2nd. The .5 ensures that a tie is impossible unless the compensation is removed. This compensation is called "komi". The exact number of points komi is worth can be shifted around or removed depending on the skill gap of the players.
The game is over when both players agree that there isn't any more moves worth making, usually done by both players passing on their turns. Once the game is over, points are tallied and the player with more points wins.
SCORING
Pic 3 is a good example of how to score. The left side is fully surrounded by white stones (the edges of the board count as borders for territory), while the right side is fully surrounded by black stones. This means the left side is white's territory and the right side is black's.
You'll see there are a couple of opposite coloured stones in each player's territory. Don't worry too much about them for now, we consider these stones dead - they are treated as a captured stone for opposing player (so white has 1 prisoner and black has two).
White has a box of size 5x13, so he would have 65 points of territory. However, the white stone within said territory is not a valid point of territory - territory must be unoccupied. Dead stones, such as the black stone do count as an unoccupied point, so white has 64 points of territory. Plus 1 point for the captured black stone, plus 5.5 points of komi (Komi is usually set at 6.5 for 19x19 boards, 5.5 for 13x13 and 4.5 for 9x9) = 70.5 points for white
Black has a box size of 6x13, so he would have 78 points of territory. Subtract the three black stones makes 75 points of territory, plus the two white prisoners makes 77 points.
Black wins by 6.5 points.
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No.403222
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No.403315
LIFE AND DEATH
Before I post Go problems I feel obligated to explain how they work and the underlying vocabulary used to talk about them for any anons who want to learn how to play. Hopefully I'll be able to explain this in a way that confuses anons less than I was when I started playing.
Most common Go problems are Life and Death problems. They're about when a group is getting surrounded and about to be captured. If the problem is about defense, you'll be "playing to live" as the surrounded stones and if you're on offense you'll be "playing to kill". The basics of Life and Death fights are based on the concept of "eyes". But before I can explain what an "eye" is I have to explain what "liberties" are.
LIBERTIES
A stone's "liberties" are the number of moves it would take to capture it. The lines on the board help in measuring this since when a stone is on a cross point all the adjacent points on the board have lines going towards them. see pic 1 A single stone on the board has 4 lines going out in the cardinal directions, so it has 4 liberties. It takes 4 moves from white to kill that stone.
Stones share liberties and have to be captured all at once. see pic 2 So three stones together don't have 3, 2, and 3 liberties, but instead they all together have 8 liberties, and have to all be completely surrounded together in order to be captured. see pic 3
EYES
Playing a stone in a space that will leave it with 0 liberties is suicidal and therefore an illegal move. However, if you capture a stone while making a suicidal move, the stones are captured and removed, leaving your stone alive with liberties. see pic 4 Because of this, if you surround an empty space with your own stones, your opponent has to surround the shape completely and reduce the shapes liberties until it is only the surrounded space, and then they will finally be allow to play there and kill the whole shape. see pic 5 This surrounded space is called an "eye", and therefore this shape can be referred to as having "1 eye".
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No.403316
2 EYES
Note that ALL other liberties had to be filled before playing in the eye was legal. see pic 1 If a shape has 2 eyes, then both eyes count as liberties, therefore, even when the shape is completely surrounded, it is illegal to play in either eye because when it is filled, the entire shape still has another liberty. Both eyes cover each other, therefore, a 2 eyed shape can never be captured. In Life and Death, most of the time, the defender's goal is to make a shape with 2 eyes and save his stones; the offender's goal is to prevent the defender from making 2 eyes
THE PROBLEMS
I don't know the strength level of the anons here, but I'm assuming most are stronger than me. So I'll post a basic problem for any newcomers to Go, and a problem that I would find difficult. If you're SDK or higher you'll probably find them both easy.
PROBLEM 1
see pic 2 Here's a basic problem. It's white's turn. White to kill the two marked stones.
PROBLEM 2
see pic 3 Black to kill.
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No.403322
>>403316
Answer to problem 2 would be to place a stone at A1.
I think.
I'm new to this.
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No.403323
>>403322
Wait, no, I'm wrong, black doesn't have white surrounded.
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No.403326
>>403322
If you're just starting out, problem 1 would be better to work with. problem 2 involves stuff I haven't talked about yet.
Dead vs Seki
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No.403339
>>403316
>Problem 1
White puts a stone at B2. This prevents Black from connecting the marked stones with the one at A2.
Black puts a stone wherever.
White puts a stone at A 4 or 5, surrounding the marked stones.
Is this correct?
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No.403354
>>403339
What if black responds at A4 and captures A3?
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No.403362
>>403316
Answer for problem 2
D1 is seki, E2 is dead, everything else fails
D1>E2>F1 leads to seki
E2>D1>F1 leads to death
""PLACES TO PLAY""
Depending on what country you are from, there may be a national Go Federation/Association. North America and Europe have one more or less for every country iirc, South America have some and I have no idea concerning anywhere else. If you look up your national Go Federation you will almost certainly find information concerning local clubs across the country.
As for playing online there are several options. Some of the most popular are; OGS, KGS, IGS, DGS, Tygem, WBaduk & FoxWeiqi. More information regarding these servers can be found at https://senseis.xmp.net/?GoServers. In my opinion OGS is probably the most beginner friendly server, though it's all a question of personal taste really.
Regarding the previous link, Sensei's Library is a huge database of Go resources (though it seems to be lacking in updates these days) which is very useful for players of all strengths. Any beginenrs in the thread should definitely read the following https://senseis.xmp.net/?PagesForBeginners
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No.403372
Are Kaya Go boards actually better, or are they just a meme?
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No.403373
>>403372
When people talk about Kaya boards they sound suspiciously similar to the people selling audio crystals to tape to your cables.
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No.403452
Whenever I post problems, I'll try to keep the pattern of Problem 1 being easier and Problem 2 being harder.
PROBLEM 1
Black to kill.
PROBLEM 2
Black to live.
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No.403501
>>403452
SOLUTION TO PROBLEM 1
Ideal result for Black, if White is stupid is Q15>R15>R16>Q15>T14
If White is not stupid then Q15>Tenuki
SOLUTION TO PROBLEM 2
**R19 lives, no matter how White responds.
The response I struggled with most was P19, but Black just plays T18 (They say magic happens on the 2-1 points for a reason!)**
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No.403505
>>403501
Could you elaborate on your problem 2 solution? An R19>P19>T18 really looks like it's running out of eyespace, and a white O15 at any point can suddenly force you to try to find room for 2 eyes in that tight space.
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No.403507
>>403505
If o15 then s19 and the only threat is the r18 throw in to which the correct response is q19 connect
I am actually half convinced that after t18 black has no need for the eye space at p15 but I would not bet on it
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No.403527
>>403507
How would you deal with a T18 response to R19? That kills a corner eye and the R18 eye is still vulnerable to the P19 making it false.
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No.403549
>>403527
Missed that T18 leads to a ko, so maybe that's the best result white can get?
R19>T18>S18>T17>O15>P19>Q19>S19>T19>Ko begins
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No.403562
>>403549
I think black can live unconditionally if you give up on an R18 eye. If you start with S19 I think black has enough room to make at least 1 eye that can't be made false, then you secure P15. I'm thinking something like BS19>WQ19>BO15>WR18>BS18. Then black lives unconditionally with an eye at P15 and an eye at T19-18 with the 3 stone tall stick.
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No.403627
>>403562
I think T18 kills after S19. If you immediately make the O15 eye then S18 and black has no second eye in the corner and I don't think you can make an eye in the corner in sente first, so white is free to play O15.
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No.403632
>>403627
What about a BS19>WT18>BT17>WO15>WS18>BR18?
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No.403633
>>403632
I think you might want to revise that
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No.403635
>>403633
Oops, BS19>WT18>BT17>WO15>BQ19>WS18>BR18
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No.403638
>>403635
Alternate I see is BS19>WT18>BT17>WS18>BR18 leaving Q19 and O15 as miai
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No.403641
>>403638
>>403635
Yep I think you've got it.
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No.404398
>>403372
kaya boards make a better sound (like a wonderful ringing noise) when you play a stone and the really high end ones are cut from a single piece of wood but honestly who fuckin cares. I've got a bamboo board with yunzi stones and it looks great. go shin kaya if you want a higher end board.
i absolutely adore the game and actually learned the same time as OP and hit SDK recently after not playing for over a year. it just makes more sense to me internally than chess.
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No.405294
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No.405345
Bump for interest.
Want to learn how to play but it seems a lot to take in.
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No.405354
>>405345
lose your first hundred games quickly
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No.405386
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No.405486
>>405345
Find a go server, OGS or KGS are your safest bets - explain in chat you want to learn how to play Go/you are a total beginner. Someone will almost certainly give you a teaching game. If you don't want to seem like a complete moron, read some of this first senseis.xmp.net/?BeginnerStudySection. At bare minimum read 1-3.
If a 9 year old girl can become a professional then you can at least learn the basics anon!
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No.405798
>>403501
I don't see how Q15 is just tenuki for problem 1 here, if I understand what tenuki is at all. What's stopping white from playing, say, T13 and then escaping down the right edge of the board?
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No.405830
>>405798
So after Q15, white cannot immediately save the upper 3 stones, however the lower stones are still alive. There is no need to immediately play T13 as black cannot save those stones, however playing T13 is a forcing move to make black capture those upper three white stones if he wants them/wants to save his four stones. The reason I suggest white tenuki is that there is probably a larger move than forcing the immediate capture of those three stones, plus it would be a valuable ko threat later on.
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No.405831
>>405798
Oh and for clarification's sake, tenuki simply means to play somewhere with no immediate affect on a local fight.
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No.405863
Are there any sites for online Go that don't require accounts and compile win/loss ratios? Something where you could just post a link here and start a game? I think it would be pretty fun to have quick 9x9 games with anons since a full 19x19 will probably take like... An hour.
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No.405876
>>405830
That makes sense, but I'm not sure if it's the gist of the problem. It's "black to kill", so if we just consider those three stones, then Q15 clearly forces white to either give them up or try to retake Q15 and lose all of his stones in the process. I had assumed from the description that the problem was about killing the three-stone and four-stone groups because they're both mostly enclosed by black stones, but now I'm less sure.
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No.405912
>>405876
My guess is that the anon who posted it took the problem from a resource where the bot intentionally missplays to allow for black to capture the top 7 stones, hence it only works as black to kill if white missplays. I can't see another sequence that works so I'm going to assume my answer is correct.
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No.406416
>>405863
Not to my knowledge unfortunately, though KGS does allow for guest accounts that can be deleted immediately - I guess that kind of does what you're after.
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No.406992
Any Bongs going to the tournament tomorrow?
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No.407324
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No.407507
>>407324
The results for British tournaments are published here https://www.britgo.org/results/12 months.
Chao Zhang won, but my understanding is that he and Andrew Simons played a very close match.
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No.407519
>>407507
>britgo
<not bongo
Missed opportunity.
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No.407581
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No.408057
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No.409534
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No.412971
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No.413021
>>409534
>>412971
I heard that the international Go organization is talking about releasing a new color to compete with the Black and White players.
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No.413039
>>412971
Well Sumire Nakamura will be a professional in less than 3 weeks, I'm looking forward to seeing how such a young professional will develop and evolve.
While I'm here, have a problem. Black to move and live.
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No.413089
>>413039
the descent on the second line makes it mearimenashi and white can't atari the stones due to damezumari
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No.414067
>>413089
That's the same answer I got, can you explain the Japanese terms though
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No.417516
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No.419997
>>413039
I hear she's to play ke jie?
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No.423881
Sumire and ichiriki played an ai
Anyone got links to a recording of the live streams?
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