/tg/ - Traditional Games

Oh and for the optimist, Owen Jacobs (the idiot who asserted martial must suck because realism) is gone and his replacement was largely known to the community for writing optimization guides. So at least the guy in charge won't be a total retard on balance.

>>364282

>>goblins are core

This is the cancer killing fantasy.

Makes me want to go serve a big steamy load on Pratchett's stone.

>>364284

Explain.

>>364287

/r/equesting the 6 panel "i'm so sad" goblin comic for this anon's education.

>>364297

Yeah but kinda misses the required context.

This can go either of two ways: the whole system will end up barely changed so the whole edition shift will be unnecessary, or they move away from the D20 system in favor of the Starfinder system, which would make all the previous books obsolete and in need of extensive retooling to make them usable again, if not render them useless.

>goblins and alchemists core

The latter is an odd move but not that terrible. But goblins being a core race? The Pathfinder goblins? The little sadists who want to set everything on fire and loot and plunder to their little hearts' content? That's just dumb.

>>364307

Uh?

>>364302

>But goblins being a core race? The Pathfinder goblins? The little sadists who want to set everything on fire and loot and plunder to their little hearts' content? That's just dumb.

DUDE

RETCONS

LMAO

This is going to be a trainwreck for sure since everyone at Paizo is unredeemably retarded, their literal only good move was inspired by the smell of shekels to be the first 3.x retroclone on the market, unfortunately for them, their game is garbage.

>>364311 (checked)

>retcons

This gives them two options:

- Turn the goblins into Chaotic Neutral assholes who burn everything and kill dogs for kicks.

- Go full fetish material.

Neither of these are desirable for a functional game.

>>364302

>>364315

The page also mentions race is now "ancestry".

Mechanically it could be neat (i.e. if you're 1/3 Orc you get a little extra Con or Str, mix of magical bloodlines for Sorcerers) but knowing Paizo it's left leaning "we're all one race, interbreeding is fine" nonsense.

It could be the result or Goblin rape babies (the most you'll get is half-Goblin), but that's usually the Orc's schtick.

Or they're trying to make them the equivalent of Kobold core races in other books (remember you used to kill these guys? Now you can be one! lol)

>>364307

I read on their blog that the pdfs were free for download, but the physical version you have to pay for. I'll find the part where it says it's free later.

Let's do some actual linking, then.

http://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lkl9

>It's worth taking a moment to talk about how characters are built, because we spent a lot of time making this process smoother and more intuitive. You start by selecting your ancestry (which used to be called race), figuring out where you came from and what sorts of basic statistics you have. Next you decide on your background, representing how you were raised and what you did before taking up the life of an adventurer. Finally, you select your class, the profession you have dedicated yourself to as an intrepid explorer. Each one of these choices is very important, modifying your starting ability scores, giving you starting proficiencies and class skills, and opening up entire feat chains tailored to your character.

So it's a bit like Only War, then. Huh, I can dig it as long as it's not too restrictive.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderplaytest

The new Pathfinder Playtest rules are the first step in the evolution to the new edition. We have incorporated the best innovations and lessons of the last 10 years to move the game forward in new and exciting ways. As we count down the days to the Pathfinder Playtest Rulebook release, we'll be revealing more information on the following topics (and more!) on the Paizo blog:

>10th-Level Spells and 4 Spell Lists

>Alchemists in Core

>Archetypes and Multiclassing

>Class Changes

>Classic Monsters and Magic

>Clean, Modular Information-Based Design

>Combat Maneuvers that Rock

>Designed for All Levels of Play

>Easier to Play

>Goblin Player Characters

>Golarion-Infused

>Heroic Storytelling

>Innovative Initiative

>More Customization

>New Background System

>Pathfinder Society

>Production Values

>Race Changes and Feats

>Rebalanced Magic Items

>Simplified Actions

>Streamlined Proficiencies

>Support

>True to Pathfinder

>Wayne Reynolds Art

Some of these look interesting, while others are mere buzzwords. I'm cautious, to say the least.

>>364322

And the FAQ:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderplaytest/faq

>>364283

> Owen Jacobs

isn't that the guy who got consulted on by Monte Cuck or am I getting faggots mixed up?

Some podcast clalled Glasscannonpodcast got a early demo for this so here are the things i've heard so far. Anything might not be accurate due to misreadings by me or them or by educated guesses.

There are two different "Modes" Exploration and Combat. Exploration si where you describe the tactics you are doing aka attamptin to hide and keep a lookout. this plays into initiative that doesn't exist. Its instead a skill check that is depending on the tactic you chose. like a stealth or perception check.

Perception is now like a BAB+wis dependant on class.

Combat is basically 5e action economy but with 3 actions instead of two, with that you can attack or move in any order you want.

When you attack more than once the next attack is with a -5 unless its an agile weapon like a dagger that reduces its penalty by one? as far as i can tell?

A "sudden Charge" uses two actions that is fighter only i believe. move twice your speed and make and attack. but it doesn't have to be in a straight line. no idea about normal charges.

spells apparently use two actions to use and this is done by somatic and verbal components using 1 action each.

Each character gets 1 reaction a round

classes have different reactions with one of the fighters being attack of opportunity.

Rogues get a nimble dodge reaction that gives a +2 to AC against one melee attack

gathering information in the middle of combat is called a "seek" action that's a skill check. its basically a knowledge check to get info.

new "Society" check is a type of knowlege check and class skills are attribute+level no clue about ranks.

New feat that lets you grab two alchemists vials in one action.

Paladin Lay on hands is a spell that costs points. no idea if its spell level based

Heal skill is now medical and with new skill unlocks at higher levels it can actually heal hit points

Class feats are a thing. Hospice knight. Medicine is a class skill and lay on hands spell are d6's instead of d4's

Ok class feats are class specific feats you choose as you level not all clsses get these at het same time like spellcasters who dont get one at first level.

Spell casting modifier is a new modifier that determines certain spell aspects like may on hands ia 1d4+spell modifier and the modifier is level+charisma.

Clerics channel energy now is a certain amount of uses of the new Heal spell a day instead of it being a innate ability. other classes can prepare this spell.

The heal spell lets you heal with touch using 1 action. 2 actions is one person at a range of 30ft and 3 actions is everyone within 30ft. And still hurts undead at the same time but it only does your flat wisdon mod in damage.

Cantrips still exist, same as ever.

Dim light gives concealment unless you have low light vision.

Weapons have quality. An expert quality weapon gives +1 to atk like masterwork. From what i can tell, Poor is -1, Normal is 0, Expert is +1 Master is +2 and Legendary is +3 and these are not magical attributes.

Passive perception is like 5e with Perception+10

Illusion magic has the ability to trick detect magic unless your spell level is high enough with spells levelling as you do somehow.

encumbrance is now bulk with things no longer being in pounds, dunno exactly how it works exactly. but the 18str character was using 10/18 bulk.

from what i can hear is that if you beat somethings AC by 10 its a critical hit.

Disarm attack is a athletics check against a reflex DC which is Reflex+10.

Shield Block reaction, if you have your shield raised you can prevent an amount of damage equal too the shields hardness.

Shields dont take damage that way unless the damage defeats their hardness.

Shield "Cantrip" only has a verbal component letting you cast that and a spell with 2 components like acid splash in the same round

The Shield spell makes a magical shield, counting as the raise the shield action giving a +1 circumstance bonus to ac till the start of your next turn. It also lets you use the shield block action but is dispelled and it also blocks magic missile of course.

Normal shields no longer give an AC bonus unless you use this action.

Natural 1 on a reflex save from something like acid flask is called a fumble and does double damage.

To hit modifier is apparently Level+Str at least thats what it was with a Shield bash since its a fighter weapon.

>>364311

In their defense goblins have always had the little tack on of 'Some of them hate normal goblins and like people'

So maybe its a subrace thing? Savage and Civilized goblins. Or with the new ancestry thing it might just mean you're a goblin whose been kidnapped and raised as like a halfling or something.

Also people will always play goblins anyways so they're just making the DM not have to live with a technically monster race

>>364322

>4 spell lists

>Simplified actions

>Heroic Storytelling

Now this shit is the real bad omen. I can practically smell the 5.5e from here.

>>364293

>>364297

That did a poor job of educating me.

>>364331

For the spell lists I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be something like arcane/divine/nature and something else. Combat? Psionic?

>people play Pathfinder for mountains of content and it being 3.5 D&D

>make a new edition with nowhere near as much content, nor is it like 3.5 D&D

Surely, this won't bite them in the ass, and all of those people who weren't loyal to WoTC and moved to Pathfinder will surely pick up this new game and not just stick to original Pathfinder.

>>364346

Paizo did say that you'll be able to convert your Pathfinder 1e stuff to 2e… but if it's going to be the same as with converting Starfinder to Pathfinder it's going to be more trouble than it's worth.

>>364347

How bad is the conversion process?

>>364348

Converting creatures is two and a half pages of step-by-step rules without a clear overview, and converting classes is three and a half pages of the same stuff with more "might" and "should" in the text than there should be. When trying to convert spells you're just shit out of luck and should just wing it when there aren't 1:1 substitutes, and the more complex class features that aren't just bonuses or things like animal companions, eidolons, mounts and familiars you'll be spending a lot of time with the rules for drones.

>>364346

You see, it's a common mistake many vidya developers have made. They assumed that if they add MOBA elements to their game or make their FPS more like CoD, they will attract DotA audience or CoD audience. What they never seem to realize is that DotA or CoD audiences do not want to play games like DotA or CoD, they want to play DotA or CoD. Pathfinder success in stealing the D&D audience was because it was quite literally a D&D, while WotC has released a D&D that wasn't a D&D because they assumed that by making D&D 4e play like MMORPG they will attract a MMORPG audience, while MMORPG players did not wanted to play D&D because they wanted to play MMORPGs. Now Paizo is stepping on the same rake - they saw that WotC took back the D&D crowd by releasing fifth edition of D&D that is more like D&D, so Paizo decided to release Pathfinder that plays like 5e, but they don't realize that 5e players will rather play 5e. Or maybe they are trying to shed their "D&D 3.75" reputation and instead turn PF into a "heroic fantasy RPG", but this will not work either - the biggest merit of PF was that it was D&D in time when D&D wasn't D&D. Now that D&D is D&D again, Pozzo is unable to compete with it, and PF will be fighting for its teeny-weeny place under the sun and teeny-weeny sliver of playerbase with OSR clones and other obscure systems, no matter how good it will turn out (which it won't).

>>364337

Alchemic, seriously Paizo thinks nobody else ever thought of alchemy before considering its like the most supported base class, now core class.

>>364346

Its just they trying to ride on 5e.

Though a bit ironic, wasn't pathfinder made to clean up 3.5, but now this is fussing up 5?

I wonder if someone is going to try and take the place of Vampire: The Masquerade once Vampire 5th edition hits. If they try it's going to be more difficult because Vampire: The Requiem is a thing.

After seeing the results of dysfunctional Starfinder system, I can actually say that Pathfinder 2E will be the Death knell of the 3.pf Genre. The only chance we could have had is if Dream scarred press made a 2nd edition of Pathfinder. This is the beginning of the end. Welcome to The End Times of 3.pf.

>>364358

True but it can't be too hard- goth punk's a bit tricky to pull off as it's definition can be hard to nail down but clans of Vamps with their own power sets and flaws scheming against each other? It's practically textbook.

>>364363

Yeah, the challenge with retrocloning Vampire: The Masquerade is that the popularity is of the setting, not necessarily the game itself. But even then you'll need to build a system that's not too different from the Storyteller System: the right mix of simplicty and applicability mixed with dice pools instead of one die with loads of bonuses.

Best case scenario: Paizo really knocks it out of the park. It's better than D&D 5e, creating a level of complexity that doesn't impede playability, with a sufficient caster-martial balance, good options, lots of possibilities, long-standing issues corrected etc. However, this is still modern Paizo, so it's completely pozzed, full of CY+3 newspeak and preachy sidebars about how you should constantly check in with players to find out their pronouns and setting flavor that is WE WUZ YAKUB levels of retarded.

Worst case: They make the Pathfinder equivalent of 4th edition, dumb everything down to absurd levels, follow Mike Mearls's argument that rule complexity and lore depth are the calling cards of the misogynerd bigot neo-nazi, and must be removed for the sake of appealing to women a-nd people who don't buy or care about RPGs.

What we'll actually get: A minorly updated, errata'd, and rebalanced version of the game as it exists now, so it doesn't make their library of crap obsolete or put Starfinder in an awkward position. It will also still be pozzed, but it will be more balanced.

>>364284

>>364297

>>364293

Even with context, what the hell do goblins being core have to do with Terry Pratchett? Is it that Snuff novel? Because that (and just about everything bearing his name post Unseen Academicals was written by his daughter wearing his name as a skinsuit.

Honestly I became frustrated with pozzfinder as soon as I started looking into homebrew with it back in CY-1. Between feats, classes, dice rolls, monsters, skills, etc the entire thing is a bunch of mechanics that have only been kept dragged along because of the momentum of 3.5. Will PF still be pozzfinder? Absolutely. Will it sell? As long as it has a bestiary it will. I've said this time and time again: the primary means of success for an RPG is whether or not it comes with a bestiary and content for GMs to either use or poach for their own campaigns. This is why every small RPG fails, they don't create a bestiary and so anyone who wishes to run has to start from square 1.

>>364396

Your spoiler is the reason why. And while you're right, the name on the cover is the name on the cover.

My problem is

>Core class

>Base class

>Alternate class

>Hybrid class

>Unchained class

>Occult class

>Prestige class

I don't get why there is so much categorization of classes. There's archetypes for each one and the amount of class bleeding and overlap is insane. Why play a fighter when you can play an unchained fighter? Why play that when you can be some paladin archetype that gives up his shitty spellcasting to have the saves of a paladin with the fighting and feat abilities of a fighter?

>>364519

There are some reasons

>Core class

These guys are the basics, they use well known methods in fantasy and generally don't rely on stranger mechanics.

>Base class

Ones that do break the mold a bit. Like here have a spellcaster, but it also deals in buff based combat or this guy who uses the mount rules or teamwork feat users that break the mold for them.

>Alternate class

We're too much for an archetype, but not different enough to be truly unique.

>Unchained class

Paizo doesn't like to errata classes at the fundamental level, so these are just errata'd classes given a new name so DMs can ban them for being OP.

>Occult class

Not combat focused and tool kits who use the psychic magic by default, which is its own unique system.

>Prestige class

Prestiges, hard to get in to and not worth it.

>>364393

Starfinder Couldn't make Automatic weapons make sense. The Modern Path made sense of that and brought in Burst Fire rules.

>>364533

>there will be no rules bloat I swear! t. Lisa Stevens

Just reading this, I'm guessing that went right out of the window.

>>364519

What this guy said>>364533

I mean, it wouldn't be a 3.5 clone if it didn't have walls, and walls of splat books no one really uses.

>Why play a fighter when you can play an unchained fighter?

You can't since they didn't make it. They did buff fighter (and I think some of the bastard children in hybrid) a bit with advanced weapon/armor training gives them extra options to make builds more unique/powerful.

Also, I'd argue paladin spells are fairly decent especially since there's a lot of immediate/swift spells that don't really interrupt the flow of hitting things. Being able to do post combat healing is also handy.

You aren't gonna be ending a fight probably, but you'll probably save your dying friend from succumbing to sword poisoning.

>>364533

No, it's more like

>Core: Well we're 3.5e+, so you need these!

>Base: Here's a core class with an alternate resource

>Alternate class: Literally why do these exist, just play an archetype because one probably exists

>Hybrid class: Actually fun to play, but the overlap is excessive

>Unchained/Occult: See alternate class

>>364550

Paladin spells are useless because this is how our group goes

>Hey I'm gonna host D&D this time, wanna play?

>Sure!

>Hosts whatever PF adventure path they think is cool

>Play maybe 3 sessions in a month, all is good

>Next month everyone has one session together

>Reach level 3, MAYBE level 4

>3 months between sessions

>Repeat every year

>>364519

>I don't get why there is so much categorization of classes

There isn't. That's just a fan system that basically means "which book did this come out in".

>core came in core rulebook

>hybrid classes came in the advanced player's guide

>occult classes came in occult adventures

>unchained came in Pathfinder unchained (and are just fixed versions of existing classes)

"Base class" refers to any non-prestige class, but in this context means everything that was released separately from the "blocks" of classes. Only alternate classes (variants of existing classes) and prestige classes (can't be taken at first level and you need to qualify for them) are actually different things in the game rules.

>>364555

Alternates exist because they're just too different. Like antipaladin is an evil paladin, doesn't really fit an archetype and with a handful of evil games its fair to say it'd need it's own archetypes too.

Ninja is like a monk-rogue hybrid, so really it should be a hybrid class but I guess its because most of it is still rogue it fits.

Samurai I just don't understand.

>>364590

I believe that everyone who writes DnD material have a hate boner for Samurai.

Changes so far seem fine but them stretching it out and padding it like it's a fucking Magic set is strange.

>>364555

That's not unusual to stick to low levels in DnD sessions, in 3.5 vanilla level 11-12 is about the "retirement" age in long campaigns and it's more typical to stick to level 7. Anything more then level 14 is practically unheard of because of how hard it is to maintain the game from there.

Check the new action economy rules. This will be horrendous.

>>364786

>This will be horrendous.

This is Pazio, was there any doubt this would be a bigger dumpster fire then Pathfinder?

>>364786

What's wrong with AP systems?

Or are you referring to shit like Ready Shield and Swap Weapon still taking a bite out of your turn?

>>364793

I liked Pathfinder. Sure, it has flaws, but it's the most fun TTRPG I've ever played.

>>364800

Nothing in particular, but these new rules are not Pathfinder. If Paizo wanted to make something completely different, fine, but give it a new name.

As someone who's never played a tabletop AP system, 3 actions on your turn, ever, sounds like way too few. As limited as 5e is, even that game lets you "cheat" the AP system by letting you do more things with a major action than a minor action. From what they've posted, it looks like you won't even be able to do that. Don't forget that only Fighter will get AOO and casters have to spend 1 action for each component (V,S,M) of a spell.

>>364807

Makes me wonder if they're going the route of making non-magic classes gain additional actions and reactions down the line at like 7th or 8th level to 'balance' them again casters.

>>364630

To be fair samurai don't really have anything that makes them different from your standard fighter outside of a different sword and armor.

>>365342

Technically they did, but it had a lot more to do with existing as members of the nobility and servants of daimyo than it did their methods in combat. The only big thing there would be getting a lot more hand to hand/close quarters training in case they were disarmed or had to fight within the castle.

>>365342

>>365397

Iaido(u), horse archery and tanegashima (early rifle) generally aren't too associated with western knights. Iaidou is really the only one that's all that's too specific to be used by some kind of western fighter. Not unless the tech has progressed to cowboy levels anyways, then you could just use the same options for quick drawing a gun as a curved sword.

>>365397

In pathfinder thats basically a paladin then, just instead of serving a church they serve those guys. And most people wouldn't argue with having a paladin as a guard.

>>365405

A fighter can do both those things, or a cavalier can. Horse archery isn't a samurai only thing, so it wouldn't really fit to make a class just for that when the more generally termed Cavalier exists. I mean that basically just means horse mounted soldier or something.

>>365411

Hence the second sentence…

New preview on how level up works

http://archive.is/pvjF7

>level ups occur at 1000 XP and XP reward scale based on character level

This is actually a pretty decent idea. Lowers book keeping a lot and makes adjusting growth rate easy, you can even have some levels pass quicker than others with no difficulty.

>seemingly uses Saga Edition style talent at odd level bonus feat at even level class table

Also good if they can write good abilities. Would work better without 12 classes though.

>>365498

Hence the qualifier.

Honestly, since the people at the top have basically purged all of the people who might have a peer-equivalent background for a bunch of nobodies from 3rd party small publishers, this is going to suck and suck hard. It's not Paizo's ideas start like shit, it's that their ideas get turned to shit because they're sloppy masturbaters who get invested into their own dicks and won't fix shit once they get invested in it.

If they're going to do 2E right they need people on their team willing to stab them in the face when they think the other guy is wrong.

>>367699

>Leveling every 1000 XP seems awkward though. Is there going to be a scale for each level? If so, it sounds like we're replacing one table for another, except this new one needs to be on the table more often, making this whole change irrelevant

If it works like most video games with fixed level up points do and the xp gain is scaled based on your level vs. the enemy, it's no harder than keeping track of how much XP each CR worth of encounter gives. Just one little side bar table like

>CR=ECL -4 or less: No XP

>CR=ECL - 3: 25% XP

>CR=ECL -2: 50% XP

>CR=ECL -1: 75% XP

>CR=ECL +1: 125% XP

>CR=ECL +2: 150% XP

>CR=ECL +3: 175% XP

>CR=ECL +4 or more: 200% XP

Would handle it.

>>367699

genital removal is nice owo

>>367733

I've seen a guy with a total penectomy before

>>367699

If i had to guess on their magic style it'd be like:

>Arcane

Wizard/Sorcerer, but not bard. Can be made into wands and scrolls, but also used for general crafting

>Sacred

Divine but good aligned spells. Can be made into wands and scrolls, only a few items otherwise

>Profane

Divine but evil aligned spells. Can be made into wands and scrolls, also demon implants or mutations

>Alchemy

Alchemist/other alchemy users. Can only be made in to potions

>Psychic

All the occult classes, can be used to make 'special' items like single use wondrous items or imbuing limited powers into things

>Innate

For classes that have limited magic like bards, a mismash of unique, arcane, and psychic spells

>>370559

Yes and it still won't be able to reload fast

>>370565

It's kind of sad that the only viable way to play a gunslinger is through 3rd party memery.

>>370565

Convince your GM to let you play a Zen Marksman by telling him "It's just the Zen Archer but with a gun"

Zen Marksman lets you reload firearms as free actions during full attacks.

If you want extra memery convince him to allow Path of War.

>2 Gunsmoke Mystic

>2 Soul hunter stalker

>The rest on Zen Marksman.

>Max out WIS

>Acquire two handguns, pepper box and two barreled work better but with regular ones works too

>Throw anything feat (trust me, it works)

>Phantom Sun stance

You might think "phantom sun still requires a move action and a feat to reload". Yeah, but you're not respawning ammo, you're respawning fully reloaded animus handguns by throwing them away once you use them.

also

>Zen Marksman is a monk. +wis to AC untyped

>Stalker gets his initiation modifier (wis) to AC as dodge when they regenerate manouvers, however Soul Hunter regenerates manouvers passively when you claim a soul as a free action

Enjoy that 2xWIS to your AC

There was also a third class that gives you an extra +WIS to AC but I've forgotten that entire build tbh.

>>370573

>>370575

>>370576

They didn't even finish publishing everything they had in spanish and now they are going for a second edition.

Alchemist is cool and I don't mind it being a core class. I just feel neutral about goblins.

>>370582

>They didn't even finish publishing everything they had in spanish and now they are going for a second edition.

Wut?

I would guess they also did not publish everything they had in Suaheli or Taiwanese.

I would also guess that they do not keep everything in print (Pawns for example).

But why should that hinder a second edition?

>>370588

I… just got the advanced character handbook and I don't want to start waiting for a second edition if it isn't shit.

>>370575

And, frankly, if your GM is that lenient, you might as well be playing Gestalt.

>>370874

>>giving Paizo money at all

Hence why I pirated their shit.

>>370610

Wait, they nerfed Alchemist to hell? Why?

>>370874

Too late for me: it was my first time GM-ing and I bought all the Starfinder stuff available. At least I learned my lesson. I knew I messed up when the core book went out of their way to say "she" all the time. I'm going to go back to my friends system he's developing which includes cool things like pain tolerance and such. Realms of Glory if you're interested

Funny enough Bleaching was already a thing in Pathfinder, it's part of Golarion setting by default.

>>371153

That's nothing new. That's been around since 3E by WotC at least. I'm not sure it was PC shit back then as much as it was just an attempt to encourage more women to pick up the hobby, which was likely seen as a gross nerdy boys' club at the time. Either way it's definitely pandering though.

>>371085

Cue a reddit AMA post of a designer unable to throw a bottle across a room then saying it's 'unrealistic' for them to have a range greater than ten feet.

>>370610

They hate bombs/mutagen because alchemist is a muddy class thematically. We have a Dr. Jekyll Mr. Hyde situation with mutagen, an explosion happy loon with bombs, a poison using backstabber, and wizard-lite all in one class. Thats why it has so god damn many archetypes that are radically different, nobody knows what the fuck the alchemist is supposed to be.

Take a fighter, its a dude who fights. His class reflects this, just combat abilities, archetypes only serve to refine them.

Wizard, classic magic man who typically likes one type of magic as many fantasy wizards tend to do.

But the alchemist is too broad and mixed up. Mutagen feels like a barbarian thing, bombs feel like a caster blaster thing, poison is a rogue's thing, extracts are a transmuter thing. Its all over the place so its no surprise Paizo has no clue what they're doing with it. Makes me want to make a True Alchemist class.

Personally I like the tool kit alchemist, thus I tend to use my bombs more for utility and ignore my mutagen but take advantage of how they prepare extracts. Mutagen I would use if it raising str didn't make my extracts worse, at best I think I got the most use of it for con to survive well beyond what I should've.

Attributes being floaty is a bit of humans being too fucking strong and everyone treating that +2 like crack, and with ancestries now mary sues can say they're half whatever now. Like lol half orc dwarf, +2 con +2 str because I'm speshul.

Gnomes already had bleaching, but its never had a mechanical effect as far as I know. Its just a story aspect where your rainbow gnome gets depressed. As to them being a slave race: At least they're trying something different with gnomes. Better than them being fucking tinkerers.

Necromancy is probably going to be the general life/death school. It makes more sense than conjuration, are you like conjuring more meat to fill the wounds? No, you're healing them over. At best the other two contenders would be transmutation and maybe abjuration, but transmutation is already good and nobody likes abjuration. Plus necromancy uses negative energy, so barring a new school why not have it do positive too? Carnomancers (Skeletons who turn skeletons into living things) can be a thing this way.

And feat lists will indeed be a fucking mess, but I doubt it'll overlap. More like X feat needs you to be human, and a fighter, but its specifically on the human list. Granted this whole feat list idea is about as retarded as trying to deep fry your dick like a corndog and only serves to limit characters in a meaningful way, contrary to the way ancestry seems to want to act.

Weren't cure spells necromancy in early D&D editions?

>>371537

they need to drink less soylent. A bottle of liquid with a decent neck to grab ahold of can travel 3 acres.

t. country boy who used to throw half empty soda bottles about 4 acres consistently.

>>371571

>4 acres

Bullshit. The world record for a fucking javelin - something significantly more aerodynamic than a bottle - is barely some 300 feet. If you're throwing from the long side, then you're talking about a 264 foot throw to get that far. I'd believe getting something to about the 3 acre range, but past that I'd have to see it first hand.

>>371576

more or less. with a good huck and a good spin we could get the thing down from one property line to the next which is 3 acres.

>>371560

Yes

>>371576

>The world record for a fucking javelin - something significantly more aerodynamic than a bottle - is barely some 300 feet

You do realize that the kind of javelins used for those records are specifically weighted so they CAN'T be thrown farther than that, right? The competitions are held at stadiums, so you can't have the javelins hit the audience.

Since this is the active PF thread I'll ask here.

Using PF 1e, we encountered a Gibbering Mouther randomly. The GM had no idea how the grapple rules worked with it in regards to swallowing whole, etc. Does anyone know offhand?

My take was:

>Scream as free action

>Start round next to someone, get full round attack (4x tentacle?)

>If one or more hits, it starts a grapple as a free action

>Turn ends

>My turn, fail to escape

>Mouther's turn again, uses a standard action to maintain the grapple, succeeding, thus earning a +5 bonus for controlling the grapple. Its Drain Blood ability activates lowering my CON

At what point does it get to use Engulf to swallow whole? Is it in place of maintaining a grapple? Because that's a standard action

>>374381

Needs a bonus against spooks.

>>374401

This, a small bonus against the supernatural would be cool.

>>371557

>>370610

I just want to make half orc mad doctors. Are they going to fuck with my lovecraftian mad doctors?

>>384091

Fuck, I meant Dr. Moreauian mad doctors. I've been too stressful with lovecraft shit.

opinions on starfinder? I think some of the races are neat, in concept at least, there are a few I'd steal if I ever wanted to run a green lantern rpg

>>385230

Did you ever think wealth by level was retarded? Well somehow they managed to make it WORSE! Instead of being expected to have a set amount of gold at each level, now you are expected to have a weapon of a certain quality and you flat out can't buy a weapons of certain grade if you aren't a high enough level, how much money you have be damned.

It's a system that learned nothing from mistakes of the previous works and full of stuff that is terribly made on its own. The new ability score generation thing means you get ZERO advantage for having a lower than average ability score (because clearly characters having flaws should only exist because a player gimped them intentionally for "roleplaying") and actively penalizes you for having an odd ability score. When you upgrade your ability scores, abilities under 17 increase by 2 but those 17 and above increase by 1. This means increasing a score of 14 twice goes 14>16>18 and increasing a score of 15 goes 15>17>18: 15 is exactly the same as 14 except it costs more (the few odd uses for odd ability scores, carrying capacity and breaking ties in races, no longer exist).

>>374364

If you start your turn grappled by a creature with swallow whole (or Engulf in this situation) the thing automatically triggers, it doesn't require an action.

>>385240

Actually I fucked up.

Swallowing whole does require a standard action, it's a combat maneuver (like pinning a target).

Swallow Whole (Ex)
If a creature with this special attack begins its turn with an opponent grappled in its mouth (see Grab), it can attempt a new combat maneuver check (as though attempting to pin the opponent). If it succeeds, it swallows its prey, and the opponent takes bite damage. Unless otherwise noted, the opponent can be up to one size category Smaller than the swallowing creature. Being swallowed causes a creature to take damage each round. The amount and type of damage varies and is given in the creature’s statistics. A swallowed creature keeps the grappled condition, while the creature that did the swallowing does not. A swallowed creature can try to cut its way free with any light slashing or piercing weapon (the amount of cutting damage required to get free is equal to 1/10 the creature’s total hit points), or it can just try to escape the grapple. The Armor Class of the interior of a creature that swallows whole is normally 10 + 1/2 its natural armor bonus, with no modifiers for size or Dexterity. If a swallowed creature cuts its way out, the swallowing creature cannot use swallow whole again until the damage is healed. If the swallowed creature escapes the grapple, success puts it back in the attacker’s mouth, where it may be bitten or swallowed again.

Format: swallow whole (5d6 acid damage, AC 15, 18 hp); Location: Special Attacks.

>>385234

Is it really that bad? I mean i liked the starship combat and bulk system, and the equipment level rule is purely optional.

>>385253

You can ignore rolling for anal circumference. The ability to ignore retarded rules doesn't make them any less retarded. In fact it makes them more retarded because there isn't even a point for it to exist in the first place.

>>383121

Can't tell if you missed the joke or celebrating it's excellence.

>>385230

If there's one thing I like about it, it's the starship combat. It's one of the few times where our entire party is actually working together consistently and everyone has a role they are best for. That said, I kind of wish they made solo ship flying more viable for someone who might have their own fighter ship, since you either need a co-pilot to handle weapons for you or rely on doing minor crew actions with ship computer assistance to fly and shoot at the same time. Could just be bias from years of Freespace and Ace Combat on my part, but it's still something I'd like to see expanded upon. A whole squadron of PCs in their own fighters would be a fun clusterfuck to manage.

I've barely done any of the adventure paths besides the very first ones as a test with my group, so I can't really comment on those. Having played both a power-armor Soldier and an Envoy so far has been enjoyable enough. Overall it feels like it needs more meat to it, which hopefully the Armory rulebook will be able to do for the time being whenever it comes out.

Rules for multiclassing:

http://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lkz1?Multiclassing-and-Archetypes

>>385677

While being able to drop feats for spellcasting is good, seems stupid as the only option. D20 Modern and Star Wars: Saga Edition managed to combine lack of fixed class features and multiclassing perfectly fine. Worst of all the justification is muh dipping, but nobody can actually give an example of PF dipping that wasn't the result of problem with the class.

>>385230

I liked the cybernetics. I wish paizo would give some more love to technology and make it a viable alternative to magic

https://www.sendspace.com/file/fh6d7h

Playtest is out, boys, come watch the dumpsterfire.

>>386345

Oh my god, humans are terrible... How do you fuck up humans as the baseline choice? HOW?? No extra feat at lvl 1, no extra skills, what the fuck? The only thing worse is halflings.

>>386399 (nice dubs, dwarfbro)

Actually humans can get an extra class feat. It's called Natural Ambition, but unlike General Training, you can only take it once. The races feel so bland and boring, and the classes... Alchemists are straight up boring. Fighters get nothing. Background are boring, and you have to waste a skill selection to get 'em.

Yup, you read that right. Here's an example: Scholar background gives you Lore Academia, but if you want to be trained in this, you have to use your skill selection. I'm not sure if I quite like the new skill selection system. On one hand, fighters and barbarians have some skills they can get now. On the other hand, alchemists only have 2+int.mod, which feels weird, when both fighters and barbarians have 3+int.mod. Fucking clerics have 5+int.mod. It really doesn't feel right. Alchs had 4+int before, which was very rounded. Now, not so much.

>>386400

Read that. Think okay, maybe a single paragraph isn't so bad.

It is immediately followed by:

As a player, it is your responsibility to ensure that you are not creating or contributing to an environment that makes any other players feel uncomfortable or unwelcome, particularly if those players are members of minority or marginalized communities that haven’t always been welcome or represented in the larger gaming population. Thus, it’s important to consider your character concepts and roleplaying style and avoid any approach that could cause harm to another player. A character whose concept and mannerisms are racist tropes, for example, is exceptionally harmful and works against the goal of providing fun for all. ...

Getting a lecture on race, and minority politics is generally not an introduction to a fun time. This is on page 5, before they even get into "how to play". I don't have the 1st ed in front of me, so I can't compare. But damn.

>>386403

>>386400

I always have and always will hate this line of thinking. It's completely unfounded and is based off of political lies. I'm a fucking mexicunt that's been playing D&D since I was fucking 12. Started with AD&D and nobody has ever given me problems at the table. I didn't see the KKK picketing my basement and burning crosses because I dared to play a fantasy game of pretend. It's almost like an entire subculture founded on outcast nerds with a shared interest in genre fiction and adventure only care about genre fiction and adventures. Fucking wild idea, I know.

Sage for blogposting.

>>386412

Dude you got potential to fuck with them. Say it offends you having it in there because it highlights your race or something and try to start shit over it.

>>386399

>Wow its worse than I expected. They're really, really pigeonholing everyone into a very specific role. Rogues MUST be dex based, wizards MUST be classical casters with a magic staff/wand/amulet, god damn.

Shit, even 5E is better at that.

>>364533

>>Core class

>These guys are the basics, they use well known methods in fantasy and generally don't rely on stranger mechanics.

>>Base class

>Ones that do break the mold a bit. Like here have a spellcaster, but it also deals in buff based combat or this guy who uses the mount rules or teamwork feat users that break the mold for them.

That's just plain wrong, though. Core class = appeared in the core book. Base class = other "normal" classes.

>>386399

>Rogues MUST be dex based, wizards MUST be classical casters with a magic staff/wand/amulet, god damn.

Why is it any bad solution?

>>386496

If you want characters to be nothing but their class, there's a bajillion retroclones and 5E you could be playing instead.

>>386499

> If you want characters to be nothing but their class,

I'm sorry, but I don't follow. Explain please.

>>386496

Mate this is some engrish I can't translate

>>386500

This I can. Its making players have to play the iconic version of the class. Ex:

>Rogue is a lightly armor sneak lurking in the background using dagger or some other light weapon, rarely a lighter bow or small crossbow. Always good at hiding and light on their feet fighting with fast movements over force

>Wizard is a man in a robe wielding a magical item that grants him the power to cast spells. Usually a staff or wand, but sometimes an amulet or other weapon like a sword

>Barbarian is an angry savage who breaks into a flying rage at a moments notice, empowered by shamanistic animal spirits or primal fury

Which is bad because we can't have things like

>A black knight, trained in heavy arms and armor but fighting dirty aiming for the weak points in his opposite and getting cheap shots. Especially when mounted and charging with a lance at a preoccupied opponent to skewer them through the liver. He's underhanded and frightening with his presence downright announced, as even with his heavier than normal armor for a rogue he's still light on his feet and can target the smallest points on a person with the largest of weapons

>The wizard who forgoes traditions and takes on a familiar with whom he shares a lust for blood, shunning daintier schools of magic for the physical might of transmutation so he and his mighty cat familiar can crush skulls in a fit of arcane rage. Confident in his lack of a weakness that is a key item for his casting he's reckless and downright dangerous to be around, even taking to wearing heavy armor once empowered by the proper buff spells, wading into the fight with magical might behind his bare fucking fists

>A reserved librarian who spends his free time studying esoteric history and arts, a meager specimen at first. Many a man met their end when they decided to damage his library and met with the full fury of a librarian who was done with their shit and decided they'd make a good display in the biology wing. Even more made when they realized the study wasn't just for leisure as he's since mastered the use of scrolls and wands.

Which of these two sets of characters seem more interesting to have at the table?

>>386519

>Mate this is some engrish I can't translate

I hear that a lot from the children of immigrants. Anglosphere's "natives" are usually quite fluent in English and have very little problem bypassing simple errors on the interlocutor's part.

Now, back to the thread...

> Which of these two sets of characters seem more interesting to have at the table?

Neither seems particularly bad or good. They are rough sketches awaiting for a player to put some meat on their proverbial bones, so I'm not sure what you're aiming at.

Could you simply state what you perceive as the problem?

>>386521

Getting pigeonholed into the standard stereotypes for classes feels limiting and sucks.

Some of us want to play muscle wizards and punch the fuck out of stuff with magic fists.

>>386534

Mechanics and flavor go hand in hand. Under 2e you simply cannot be a muscle wizard, the structure to allow that character to exist and be somewhat playable isn't there. Mechanically impossible.

Thats a major appeal of Pathfinder, the mass of content allows a lot of freedom to make a character whose mechanics and flavor text line up. Do you want a whip wielding fancy man delivering crippling spells through his whip? Magus. Do you want a rough and sturdy punchy man? Martial artist monk, pugilist barbarian, or unarmed fighter.

This new system doesn't have that.

>>386542

Let me simplify things for you.

The mechanics are limiting and shit. Pozzfinder 2E is shit.

>>386544

> I can't in all sincerity imagine how that works

Yeah, I can't in all sincerity imagine how does that work.

...not Muscle Wizard, mind you, but Anon's fixation on it.

>>386553

What are they limiting? Your creativity? Ability to react to your GM's and other players' actions and choices? In what way, given that NO SCENARIO is discussed?

>>386553

It really is. Oh, and you can't have any stat above 18 at lvl 1. Among other things. I like some of the changes they did to alchemists, like how acid flask and alchemist fire, among other such items, are now classified as bombs for alchs (meaning you no longer have to waste discoveries to be able to do elemental damage), but a lot of it is pure shite too. Mutagens have been ruined for one. If you want your bombs to deal more damage based on your int, that requires a feat now.

Look, not my fault that the ONLY roleplaying group in my city plays pathfinder a lot, ok? Do not blame me for their poz. Most of them are alright, so I enjoy their company, though.

>>386557

Hey, newfag, lurk two years before posting. Also, read pozfinder 1e and 2e, and you'll see the massive difference in options, feats, traits, and races. Fucking hell, the races are so bland now. Want an ability that was straight up standard in 1e, like elf immunity to magical sleep? Fuck you, you have to take it as an "ancestry feat" now. And you only get 1 such ancestry feat at level 1. Hell, half-orcs can't get low light vision until level 5, so apparently half-orc eyes can undergo some kind of evolution or metamorphosis at that level.

>>386559

>Hey, newfag, lurk two years before posting.

I did and I recall exactly the same discussion we have been had on a very different chan back when PFRPG was announced and 3.5 fags complained that it was "too limiting".

Now, back to the thread:

> some half-assed effort

Ok? WHAT is the problem?

>>386560

> Ok dude the stench of newfaggotry is getting overwhelming.

Happens when you pick "lack of hygiene" as your disadvantage. Consider not doing it next time.

Now, back to the thread:

> When every character of the same class is forced to have identical traits and use the exact same tools, its fucking boring. You can try to slap as much flavor text and scenarios on it as you want, every character will have the same framework as every other person with the same class and you'll never get the chance to make a unique interesting character based off their mechanics

I don't see how "all-x-party" might ever be boring, when ran by players who feel like putting some effort in what they do, meaning pretending the game's world is a real one.

So what that you're all guardsmen/elves/paladins/bards/warlocks/fighters with exactly same skills and abilities? You're still gonna have a puzzle to solve, a story to co-create, choices to make, not to mention find yourself in situations where your class won't matter as much as your - players' - wits, creativity, reasoning.

> As to muscle wizard:

My sympathies concerning your lack of reading with comprehension skills. Now go back to the comment you're responding to and start reading from:

> So far I see

Then, upon learning that I'm not addressing muscle wizards but about your fixation with the class, you may return and continue this amusing conversation without derailing it to paths it does not go.

>>386561

Anon I must fight it is in my blood.

Also I haven't been visiting much lately so out of the loop, last one I remember was in I think a thread about airships?

>>386562

>>>/oven/

>>386500

A level 5 wizard is the same as any other level 5 wizard. Your only "options" are ones with obvious, objective better choices and choosing outside of them (like making a wizard who is strong but not agile) is effectively playing a weaker character for the sake of playing a weaker character. 5E is only slightly better with specializations that aren't chosen till a few levels in. That they managed to do this is amazing given they went to a d20modern/saga edition style talent system instead of fixed class features is impressively bad design.

In Saga Edition I can make a Soldier 5 and have a guy who is really hard to hit, a guy who makes enemies take loads of penalties when attacked (even on a miss) with autofire, a swordman, or a grappler who tears people's arms out of their sockets. They are all viable (not equally so, autofire guy contributes much more in space or against hoards of enemies while grappler dude shuts down single encounters.) but none of them are bad builds. None of them are race dependent (though past level 5 there are some really nice Wookiee only options for the grappler)

Well at least the official forums seem to be of the view that the core ideas (3 action system, lack of fixed class features) are solid, but the content for them is horrendously bad.

>Martials now benefit from the 3 actions per turn if they don't move, since they get special shit for multi attacking since level 1

>Bard is a full caster now

>Casters in general got OSR style spellcasting (you have 2 spellslots, no scaling with stats which means they're not absurd low level)

>But all spells scale with level, so I have mixed feelings about it

>Paladin got cripplingly nerfed though

>Initiative is contextual but defaults to perception

I mean the pathfinder thing of casters always outclass martials is still true, but it's different enough. It's nothing like 5e though.

>>386617

>5ft step is a combat maneuver

but

>Attacks of oportunity are a class feature specific to fighters

One of the strengths of PF is that the "release a stream of books" model REALLY paid off in terms of giving different characters options to work with.

For example, in the campaign that I'm running now, we have no standard characters except the druid.

1. a half-orc barbarian drunken brute who is drunk within an hour whenever he wakes up and there's *game mechanics to support this drunkenness*

2. a CURSELESS Oracle (he had burnt arms, but a campaign villain replaced his arms with machine parts), and there's *game mechanics (partly invented by me) to support this*

3. a bladebound magus whose intelligent item is itself the leader of a secret society, and there's *game mechanics to support this*

In another PF campaign I ran, there's

1. a half-orc natural werewolf barbarian who can both rage and turn into a hybrid werewolf *and there's game mechanics to support this* (though both rage and transformation is a little janky)

2. a sorcerer with a monkey familiar who has ranks in Use Magic Device so he can run around the field shooting wands at people, and wears a tiny-sized suit of studded leather armor, *and there's game mechanics to support this*

3. a LN paladin who is basically Judge Dredd, uses Intimidate a lot in combat *and there's game mechanics to support this*

You get my point.

>>386594

>"there's no Warforged race"

Says who? Paizo? Fuck Paizo, 3.5e material still works just fine.

A core villain of my current campaign invented the warforged - and the boss encounter of the dungeon my party is in is an ancient-advanced technology warforged with plastic components...

>3-5 years from now on we're gonna have more books than illegal immigrants. There are gonna be more options, more possibilities.

Ain't that the truth though. I wonder how much of the PF2.0 stuff will be available free online.

The shit where basically everything is a fucking feat seems pretty annoying and will separate the power level of optimized and organically built characters even more than it already was.

>>386415

Keyboard warriors are the people that these intro writers end up encountering most often, because they're unemployed and have more time to bitch about the time Jeff The DM shooed them away from the table. These selfsame whiners either dress up or outright lie about the reason they were asked to leave, and so the intro-writers are left with a tale of woe about how these people totally didn't passive-aggressively bitch about another player for three sessions, and was simply gaming while black or whatever.

It's either that, or the tabletop gaming writers saw what happened with the vidya industry when Microsoft ran into the problem of gamers being hard to please, not very numerous, and very well-informed. For the handful that don't know, they launched a massive marketing campaign and made it cool to play vidya. The problem is that no singular tabletop gaming company is large or deep-pocketed enough to match that kind of effort, nor are they either of those things if they work together. So they can't make it cool, but they can attempt to drag in new players from new places by appealing to their interests, hoping that they'll remain loyal to the company forever in some kind of battered housewife fashion because of a few paltry words about representation.

I'd respect the hell out of the effort if it wasn't also almost exclusively targeting people like me for allegedly excluding mouthbreathers and knuckledraggers that cannot into basic math.

>>386542

Sounds like the problem is that you're an idiot.

>>386682

> You get my point.

Sure.

And my point is that we're looking at a playtest version of the corebook of PFRPG 2.0, and some of us assume - wrongfully - that it's supposed to contain everything to allow us to reproduce gaming options available in PFRPG 1.0.

It's not going to work that way. Paizo wants those sweet, sweet $$$ of ours and they are going to release whatever we're missing in form of sourcebooks, guides and other expansions, one piece at a time, a few bucks each.

I wasn't joking about that DLC model.

> Says who?

Said all those unresourceful guys who complained that core book of PFRPG 1.0 didn't include everything to allow them to reproduce gaming options available in D&D 3.5.

Funnily enough, we're in pretty much the same spot right now. If anyone feels there's something missing, he or she is free to homebrew it into the game, OR wait for additional material covering this specific aspect of the mechanics/fluff to be released (either official one, or coming from 3rd party designers).

Or play entirely different game, of course.

> I wonder how much of the PF2.0 stuff will be available free online.

My guess is that there's going to be total SRD library available. Without it, Paizo is surely going to lose metric ton of players.

>>386696

Sounds like you have problem formulating more elaborate ideas. Work on that, will ya?

>>386519

They've been boiling ideas down for a while now. D&D is the posterchild from which many RPG's base themselves, either by being similar or by being different. Pathfinder has years of people playing it, falling into patterns and making memes. Sometimes creators follow these patterns and end up with blinders on without realizing it.

The problem comes when they convince themselves they're 'not' doing it.

> Doesn't even know how to reply

> Ancient meme

> No point given

> "our", "we"

Oi, pinko, you the guy from the "hahaahahah, read this politically correct game, hahahaha, totally not shilling, one of us, amirite"?

My only semi-solicited opinion:

PF2 promotes communism in its very design

Shit, this system is obfuscated as fuck. Terminology replacing numbers everywhere.

TEML is functionally an application of 2e weapon specialization but to every fucking skill, weapon, and armor. Terms like Boost and Flaw replace hard numbers like +2 and -2 for your stats

Apparently the solution to imbalances is to make everyone good at everything all the time always. You'll never have a difference of more than 5 points in a skill between characters of the same level because your level itself gets factored into everything from attacking, your AC, your saves, and of course your skills, and you can't actually invest skill points per se except to bring one from Untrained to Trained to Expert to Master to Legend. That's it. -2 for untrained, no penalty for trained, +1 bonuses for each level above that

Character creation now actively discourages you from building around "gimmick" builds, making your final stat calculation reliant not only your race, but your background and class. Add 4 ability boosts to that and that's your build

And I don't even know why they bothered with Ability Scores; Modifiers stand on their own now as you actually can't get an odd number in any stat during creation without a rolling method.

And a level 5 wizard can be made into a better fighter than a level 5 fighter basically for the cost of a weapon and armor proficiency.

If they really got a guy who specializes in writing optimization guides as >>364283 said, they must've told him to promote a lack of variety and niche. It feels like it's balanced exclusively around solving nonexistent problems in Society play than to be a fun game

Rolled 1 - 1 (1d1)

>>386833

I don't know the first thing about Pathfinder but I saw this while scrolling the front page and what the fuck?

What does this even mean? How do you practice giving representation to players that aren't playing with you? What the fuck is a "social contract" for a roleplaying game? Who the fuck is playing RPG's in a public space? Do autists go to the fucking duck pond to play Pathfinder in front of all the fit girls out on a jog?

How the fuck do you have a right to be represented in my game? A right, you know, what God almighty in heaven above has bestowed upon all Englishmen and their posterity to protect them from the tyrannies of the world - among which are the right to life, liberty and property. If I don't give them representation can they file suit in a federal court for having their rights violated?

>>386886

The line isn't players, it's

>People of all identities and experiences have a right to be represented in the game

which is also bullshit. It's basically saying every single setting and even every single game MUST be "Diverse and accepting" regardless of the tone.

>>386400

>>386833

>>386886

>>386889

Jokes on them my table ain't nothing but a bunch of unPC shitlords.

>>386886

>What does this even mean?

That if a player produces a child raping cannibal who also enjoys necrophilia who also is a pacifist and does nothing to help the group in combat, then it's ok.

BUT, if anybody raises a brow, you're (as the GM) free to scold him and demand for him to adjust his backward, conservative males-rights-xenophobic views or leave the table.

Simple as that. Because political correct playing is magic. Also, love.

>>386760

Wow, old school stuff sounds awesome. Especially that METEOR FIST bit.

>>386911

Isnt that generally what most games are? I have never met anyone who is PC and bothers with these hobbies.

>>386886

>Do autists go to the fucking duck pond to play Pathfinder in front of all the fit girls out on a jog?

Elderly people in my country play chess and drink high proof alcohols in park pavilions with designated chess tables.

>>364311

>>The Pathfinder goblins? The little sadists who want to set everything on fire and loot and plunder to their little hearts' content?

>RETCONS

Wait... Goblin Antifa?

ROFLMAO.

This would have an upside of wonderful Goblin Slayer crossovers.

>>386886

> How do you practice giving representation to players that aren't playing with you?

Tokens to the rescue!

Or just chase off enough of evil white male mon-keighs, and done.

> What the fuck is a "social contract" for a roleplaying game?

Normally, "not being THAT GUY".

In Pozzfinder, robably finding some poz and clinging to it, I guess?

I got a question. Whose smart idea it is to have core class abilities like Stunning Fist, Bardic Lore and shit be optional?

>>388015

Why not?

Stupid d20 shit is stupid anyway.

That's not the problem.

The problem is, they seem to absorb randum homebrews, but use no unified way to handle all hose options, instead it's all shrubbery of autistic speshul cases and pointless categories like >>364519 - and this clusterfuck only can get bigger and more unmanageable with time.

Then eventually they have to sweep the table. But since they won't remove what causes this infestation...

>>388019

>instead it's all shrubbery of autistic speshul cases and pointless categories like

Again, the categorization of classes like that is purely a fan creation for sorting the classes.

>>364562

You've basically looked at a table of contents and whined you don't like a category choice.

>>388015

That is not actually a problem. All the other talent based d20 variants (Unearthed Arcana's generic classes, D20 Modern, Star Wars Saga Edition) lacked fixed class abilities while making you pick what your abilities were via talent choices. The problem is they didn't commit to it, all the classes still have a shit ton of fixed class abilities that all the "class feats" have to interact with.

In Saga Edition you could have a scoundrel who focused on debilitating blows, attacking while moving, or distracting an enemy so your teammates could hit it more easily (that's just the core rulebook), never taking Sneak Attack (in fact Sneak Attack is pretty shit in that system, the conditions were ever harder to setup than they are in most system and the damage was only slightly better on average than talents that worked all the time). In PF2 a Rogue MUST be a sneak attacker, and a large chunk of "rogue feat" options focus on improving it.

I like how they make you focused only on certain class builds. However, they fail by having too many class options.

You only need three classes.

>Warrior

>Mage

>Rogue

Everything else is unnecessary.

>>387353

Two different Anons, Hombre.

Also, yeah. Political correctness favors diversity over, say meritocracy.

>>388059

???

You forgot cartographer anon

>>388059

No, you just need two classes:

>Bourgeoisie

>Proletariat

They're both the same, except if you play bourgeoisie, you play as a single strong person, and if you're the proletariat, you're a large band of weak people. So one arch-sorcerer-fighter or a gaggle of thieves, fighters, and shitty wizards.

>>388059

As mentioned directly above you.

>>388059

Rogues were a mistake. Warrior should be just called "adventurer" and anyone should be able to pick locks or disarm traps without dedicating their entire class to it.

>>388302

Rogues aren't a mistake. The mistake is whoever t is thought it's a good idea to nerf any class that's not a Vancian caster or a caster in general.

>>388304

So Monte Cuck

>>388304

Rogues are a mistake.

The class is Thief.

which anime series is this?>>364282

>>388334

Amen, Brother.

>>388628

Not OP but I'm guessing it's Legend of Galactic Heroes.

>>388763

I, OP, honestly have no idea where it's from. I saw it posted once and thought the file name I gave it was natural.

>>388769

On further inspection, yeah...it's definitely Legend of Galactic Heroes.

>>388059

Holy shit, look at all that bloat. Why can't Mages pick locks if they're so smart? What law of the universe says that people who know how to use a sword can't cast spells?

You only need 1 class. Only heretics ignore the Will of Gygax.

>>390087

One class? You want everyone to run a Factotum, anon?

Hey, want to tell paizo they're a piece of shit and that their new game sucks? Hop onto the fucking surveys and give them a piece of your mind. Make sure to let them now you're a white male. Gods, I've been writing and re-writing this post several times now, I can not make it sound not-shilly. Somebody fucking kill Paizo as a whole already.

h ttp ://paizo.c om/community/blog/v5748dyo6sg9c?Ancestry-and-Class-S urveys

Remember to remove the spaces

>>386542

>Just make it up!

If I was just going to do that, I wouldn't be assed to buy a fucking rulebook you brainlet.

Hello /tg/

Been playing Pathfinder Kingmaker.

First real exposure to PF.

Why is the art from Paizo so 'goddamn fucking shit holy holy who lets these people draw?

That is all, thank you.

>>386917

>child raping cannibal who also enjoys necrophilia who also is a pacifist

that sounds like fun character

imagine trying to talk party paladin to kill a girl because you are hungry and cannot do it yourself becuse killing is immoral

>>394278

wayne motherfucking reynolds. i hate that nigger with a passion. pretty much all of the art in the books is his

dont get into pathfinder, shit ruleset,shit setting, shit art, shit people

>>388296

remember when the only class you had was barbarian? good times

1.6 update is out now, any worthwhile changes? (just started reading the phb)

>>386833

that reads more than carefully crafted lip service tbh. "never let ppl derail your game" includes sjw fucktards as well (even when they're usually to dense to notice), "not necessarily at your table" might as well be written as "just tell them to fuck off"

>>394435

Actually these days he's mostly cover art only. He's, somehow, too expensive for interior art.

>>371571

First, an acre is a unit of area, not length. Second, as other poster said, an acre is rectangular, so "4 acres" could be sideways (240', plausible, depending on weight), lengthwise (2640', impossible), or even diagonal.

>>371938

Then here's a broader variety of throwing records:

https://olympic.ca/2016/03/10/long-balls-the-longest-shots-in-sports/

>72' for shotput (16lbs. iron ball)

>112' for basketball

>222' for football

>259' for hammer (16lbs. iron ball on 3' wire with handle)

>445' for baseball

And one more:

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/longest-throw-no-tail

>1401' for boomerang

>start a new campaign

>party spends 2/4 hours in the tavern ordering obscure liquours

>>399594

While anon's bottle-throwing ability may be questionable, I think this does establish that being able to throw exploding magic potions at goblins at distances farther than point-blank is not a superhuman feat.

>>399594

>>399995

25 meters used to be the minimum for grenade throwing in the army. That's 80 feet.

So I haven't kept up with this crap since it came out. What have they changed so far?

>>400054

More poz, more BBC, and more not-cute dykes. Its time to prep the bull.

>>399995

It's something that can be practiced and learned in a matter of hours. Assuming the thrower isn't a mentally retarded double amputee, there's no logical reason to put such a retardedly harsh limit on throw distance. Without more practice, it might not be possible to consistently hit a small target at long distances, but it's not some masterful feat to lob a bottle across a room.

>>400075

What have they changed mechanically?

Final version coming out in August. Meh.

>>390087

> 1 class

Why have a class at all then, Why not go skill-based à la Shadowrun? If a character chooses to do Magic and wants to spare a few Character points on lockpicking, he could.

>>364282

>alchemist are core

Never played as alchemist, or had anyone in my group do so, but just reading the description in the book made me hate that class. Isn't there something like mostly only the alchemist can drink his own potions, and you can only have a few of them at the same time?

>>364318

>The page also mentions race is now "ancestry".

Sounds like a bunch of Current Year bullcrap. There is no human race, or elven race. There's only the Player Character race.

>>386889

>People of all identities and experiences have a right to be represented in the game

Very nice. I should join a Pathfinder Society (or whatever the fuck it's called) game and make a KKK neon-Nazi dwarf character. Also if there's a furryfag or a tranny character I call tell the DM they make me feel uncomfortable.

>>424391

>KKK neon-Nazi

Instead of burning crosses he has glowstick swastikas.

>>424391

Wouldn't it be a paleo-nazi? Wouldn't it be better as a human?

> Gaz the long-nosed gnomes.

> Orc-Fuckers are race-mixers

> Humans have a fetish for elves because they're neotenous and smart-ish, and also have to be fought back.

>>424396

> Instead of burning crosses he has glowstick swastikas.

You just gave me a Shadowrun Johnson to oppose the Sons of Saurons. Thanks.

>>424384

>just reading the description in the book made me hate that class

What's wrong with their description? Alchemist is actually one of the better designed classes in 1E, able to do a number of roles quite well but not all at the same time and not able to trivialize aspects of the game like a Wizard can.

> Isn't there something like mostly only the alchemist can drink his own potions

In 1E? Alchemist needs to spend a discovery to be able to use his potions on other people BUT this comes with several side benefits beyond just clearing the restriction. The biggest being that you can use personal only spells on other people, which is great because those spells tend to be really good buffs balanced on the idea you can't just slap them on the big stupid fighter and they have to go on a squishy caster. This also allows allies to spend their own actions to buff or use the handful of offensive spells on your list. Needing to do this to heal other people is kinda dumb though.

>and you can only have a few of them at the same time?

You're restricted to the number your spells per day can make.

>>424419

Like I said, I don't have experience with alchemists, but I just disliked what I read in the book. Maybe it works mechanically, but I guess the problem for me was it sounds too much like some soft of specialized spellcaster and not an alchemist, who is basically just a regular person who knows a lot about concoctions and shit. they should've done some stuff like you can try to give one of his potions to anyone, but there might be side-effects. Like ADD supposedly had. If you drink a health potion and another potion too close to each other, there might be a random reaction in the stomach.

>>424432

>sounds too much like some soft of specialized spellcaster and not an alchemist

Potions makers were already specialized spellcasters. It's impossible to make a potion focused class that isn't a spellcaster when that's how potions have always worked. D&D potions are enchanted liquids, not mixed magical chemicals.

>main class sould depend on random effects

That's basically "How to Make a Totally Unplayable and Worthless Class 101". Unless effects are all good or (for offensive features) all bad effects all bad nobody will ever touch gamble effects.

>>424433

>That's basically "How to Make a Totally Unplayable and Worthless Class 101"

You mean Chaos Mage?

>>424444

Yes, a gimmick variant class that's fun to look at but gets old really quick.

>>424433

>main class sould [sic] depend on random effects

Nope, that's not what I suggested. My point was that the possible downside (and upside) of alchemy was simulated in some way in ADD. They could try to simulate it in another way, such as you can only feed two alchemist potions to a character within a day without repercussions. You might give them more, but there will be side effects, be they random or not. Maybe they would reduce an ability for a day, increase aggression, create mutations, give them a boner that won't go away...

I'd like to see some randomness though to make the player get tempted to gamble and give the possibility of positive effects, such a side effect might raise strength by 6 but lower intelligence by 2. I suppose the effects shouldn't be too extreme, unless you feed them several excess potions. No your colon explodes drenching everyone with shit in a 60 feet radius.

Alchemy should at least include the science of experimentation in some manner.

>>424444

Psykers in Dark Heresy also have a potentially dangerous and random downside to them.

>>424470

That actually makes a lot of sense. Don't give alchemists spell slots, just a limit on the number of potions someone may drink at once.

>>424470

>Psykers in Dark Heresy also have a potentially dangerous and random downside to them.

And people only put up with them because there are no dependable magic options.

>>424432

rather than being a specialized chemist, the alchemist class is a codification of the D&D 3.5e rogue build known as the flask rogue

they added a form of spellcasting (extracts) that focuses on personal buffs and spell effects that center on or originate from the caster (such as fire breath). Compounding this with mutagens makes a tank mage and daily bombs mitigates the reliance on purchased acid and other splash weapon

because the extracts are intended to center on the self, they added the inability for anyone but the alchemist to ingest them, the reason given being about each alchemist tuning their extracts to their own physiology and needing to take a discovery to make a generic version