No.18990 [View All]
Thoughts on the assessment in pic related?
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No.20297
>>19993
And yet more proof George Lucas is a fucking hack who didn't understand what made Star Wars so good in the first place.
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No.20313
>>20297
Okay Mike. Your little videos were so right. Let us know when Space Cop 2 comes out
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No.20316
>>20313
>if you think George was a hack you're RLM
Listen George, people were shitting on your 1-man production long before Kike Cucklasa came along. The original trilogy was a cooperative effort to capture the zeitgeist of the time, the prequels were nothing but you jerking off in a corner and your faggy little Whills fanfaction level bullshit proves it.
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No.20317
>>20313
Oh and don't think the prequels get off just because they're better than the trash that is the Nu-Trilogy. Just because someone puts shit on a plate doesn't mean the trash on the other plate is suddenly a fine meal.
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No.20320
>>20316
>>20317
>REEEEEEE muh childhood
How does it feel, knowing you turned Star Wars into this tranny shit because you couldn't accept that you weren't a young boy anymore?
Apologize to George. It is the only way to save your putrid soul.
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No.20322
>>20320
<REEEEEEE muh childhood
It's worse than that in a way. Most of these soyboys are too young to have seen the OT in theaters in the first place, yet still try to cash in on the raped childhood meme because it's trendy. They're like a nu-male version of those Jews who claim they've experienced transgenerational trauma from the Holocaust.
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No.20349
>>20348
>RedLettermedia is generally correct about everything he says about the prequels
No. All of his advice was followed religiously by Disney and the result is the sequels. Watch the TLJ review and watch how often they say, 'in theory' this is could be good. It's all shit they wanted to see and they are forced to recognize it's terrible.
The prequels are good, entertaining films meant for boys that adults can enjoy.
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No.20353
RedLettermedia is generally correct about everything they say about the prequels. When people get butthurt over their deconstructions they fixate on extremely generalized minor points. One example is retorts to the criticism of too much CGI being used by pointing out how many scale models were used in the prequels, conveniently ignoring that the point is too much CGI was used in the wrong places in spite of that.
Regardless the main reason the prequels sucked is the autistic tone shifts (Plinkett goes into this specifically in the beginning of the Revenge of the Sith review), plot holes, and the admittedly hard-to-articulate autistic soullessness of them. They just give the vibe of shoving too much crap everywhere and lacking any pacing, like they put too much emphasis in showing off visuals and effects for the sake of themselves. There's also a far more childish undertone to a lot of scenes that come off as an autistic person made the films. The Ewoks just pale in comparison. The really cringy CGI prequel clone wars spinoff stuff is full of that as well. There's a minority of good points to the prequels (Palpatine himself for one), but the bulk is crap. Me personally I've always hated the art design. It just doesn't look Star Wars to me.
My main issue with RLM is they engage in cringeworthy normie EU bashing which is usually cherrypicked and unobjective. There's bad shit in the EU yes but there's also bad Star Trek episodes, and using that to dismiss the entirety of Star Trek would be dumb. There's also. Likewise with the EU. They're also too easy on the Disney garbage. Granted one cannot expect Stoklasa, a film reviewer first, to hate on the Disney stuff because it's riding on the coattails of decanonizing and contradicting the EU. It is really entitled to think that way.
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No.20354
>>20349
Just because they didn't make the same mistakes the prequels did doesn't mean they can't make other mistakes. You're thinking in binary here. The problem is the Disney films suck for different reasons, they just tick a lot more basic bitch film film making check boxes than the prequels did.
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No.20356
>>20353
Quality post, too bad it reminds me that we're the underdogs.
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No.20359
The EU was decanonized because the ratio of Star Wars fans who like the EU is relatively low compared to Star Wars fans who just like "pop Star Wars". This is primarily because people don't read as much as they watch films, and you'll also note the loudest voices complaining about the EU being decanonized were people complaining about Knights of the Old Republic and Revan - video games, and video games are nowadays more accessible and popular than books, which further proves my point. It was unrealistic for them to cater to EU fans by confusing normie audiences with references to the Yuuzhan Vong and such. I was upset at the decanonizations too, but I wasn't surprised nor did I hold an expectation that they would keep the old EU. I felt the EU and classic Star Wars in general was doomed since the late 2000's.
For the people who think in false dichotomies (defending the prequels/Lucas out of spite towards Disney Star Wars), let me remind you that Lucas, the prequels, the clone wars TV series, and practically all mainstream Star Wars film and TV media from the early 2000's onwards showed relatively little respect for EU continuity in various circumstances. Remember when Ryloth wasn't tidally locked in the Clone Wars series, for example? Only some video games really took significant things from the EU, for example Thrawn appearing in many games. Lucas also implied the EU was canon by giving guidelines and forbidding certain things (something you'd only care about if you wanted to maintain consistent canonicity), but then would later on contradict and disrespect the EU in a much circulated quotes. What's surprising to me is how many people who acknowledge Lucas's incompetence with regards to the prequel trilogy disrespecting and contradicting the OT who will then appeal to (usually out of context) comments of him disregarding the EU, and not realize he ruined that as well, not realizing he was inconsistent and retarded in that context by anyone's standards. But, see, because EU bashing is a meme, it's allowed apparently.
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No.20363
>>20359
>It was unrealistic for them to cater to EU fans by confusing normie audiences with references to the Yuuzhan Vong and such.
I have to disagree on that, as movies based on comic books are filled with obscure references that only diehard fans may recognize but serve as an opportunity to introduce casual audiences to them and may even allow for re-introductions or updated adaptations. Before the Captain America movies, no casual ever heard of Arnim Zola. Hell, someone drops mention of the "Vong War" and it'll make people just as curious as when they first heard of the "Clone Wars" in A New Hope, unlike the Disney Trilogy which was just dropping references and terms which really held no weight or a basis beyond "sounding cool". Solo tried to do something in a similar bane to Marvel movies by referencing EU material and characters, but by this point it was already too late for anyone to give a shit thanks to the changes set forth by the preceding films (and TLJ alienating even casual audiences), and it didn't help that Solo's new backstory felt rushed and poorly constructed thanks to all the moronic behind the scenes reshooting due to Lucasfilm, Kennedy, Disney, or whoever was the one primarily bitching, never being satisfied with what Lord and Miller offered.
>This is primarily because people don't read as much as they watch films
I think it's safe to say the majority of the western world barely reads at a;; now, unless its Twilight and Harry Potter, but even those barely make up half of their respective fandoms. Nobody actively reads these days unless they're forced to due to educational purposes or work-related matters, which should be a rather telling sign as to where we're headed as a society. Only subjects people actively read these days are facebook and twitter posts.
Also I really like how normalfags will only diss Lucas and what he approves of when its convenient for them, but then they do a 180 when it comes to bashing the EU like saying uninformed shit like "he outright said that he hated it and doesn't approve of anything in it" or using Lucas's "approval" of TFA, RO and TLJ as to why these movies should be loved yet will not hesitate to shit on him when he gave his own idea for the sequels.
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No.20364
>>20353
I agree with pretty much everything you posted there, especially the awful tone shifts. But I'd also say that their EU bashing isn't really that prevalent. There was the one video where they read the wiki article on Darth Vader's suit and how autistically detailed it was, but I always saw it as more lighthearted jabs and less "DUH EU IS SO STOOPID" I mean, c'mon, you have to admit that Palpatine renaming the hospitals after himself is pretty funny, and the awful abbreviation EmPal SuRecon.
But Mike especially (and Rich to a lesser extent) is quick to point out the stupidity in Star Trek as well. He's well aware that all these different sci-fi universes have their ups and downs, and some really dumb shit, but he still enjoys them. You can nitpick the hell out of something or laugh at its dumber parts, but still have a thorough enjoyment of it.
And they've been shitting on Disney Wars ever since Rogue One. I really don't get the whole "RLM are Disney apologists" meme around here. Yeah, they were kinda soft on TFA, but there was always the caveat of "okay, you made the nostalgia bait, now give us something new." Disney instead kept diving into the nostalgia well, and now we've had another three movies of [reference] and [reference] and [things I know], with the same basic structure as the OT, just a lot worse. It was the same complaint they made with Star Trek: Into Darkness, where it was literally Wrath of Khan again but worse.
I dunno, I'm probably rambling because I'm tired. I guess I'm tired of seeing both extremes with regards to RLM, the fanboy worship and the extreme hatred. Like, they're just some hack frauds from Milwaukee, chill out.
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No.20365
>>20354
That's not what I said. They sequels explicitly avoided what RLM said was bad and practiced what they said was good.
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No.20366
>>20353
>>20364
>RedLettermedia is generally correct about everything they say about the prequels.
nah RLM is a comedy channel, they're totally inept at actual criticism. They have ZERO credentials, compared to someone like Armond White or Richard Brody. That being said, of course RLM is allowed to have fun and pretend. Their powerful force of dishonest gen x cynisism provides a nice and much needed counter balance to the excessive turbonerd consumerist attitudes you seen in pop culture fandom today.
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No.20368
>>20366
I have to agree. RLM really do like they're not valid critics, what with their channel being more of an entertaining comedy that comes off as a parody of critics, even if they don't realize
>>20364
Also this. The last couple of posts in this thread might be worth screencapping.
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No.20381
>>20353
>the admittedly hard-to-articulate autistic soullessness of them.
this. I agree with everything you said, but I think there's a core of decent storytelling in the prequels. it's just buried under layers of CGI overload, poor execution, and the issues you mentioned.
>>20363
>I think it's safe to say the majority of the western world barely reads at a;; now, unless its Twilight and Harry Potter, but even those barely make up half of their respective fandoms. Nobody actively reads these days unless they're forced to due to educational purposes or work-related matters, which should be a rather telling sign as to where we're headed as a society. Only subjects people actively read these days are facebook and twitter posts.
even more this.
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No.20382
>>20363
I should also mention that the official reason given by Disney was that catering to the EU would stifle their creative freedom. If the EU was as popular as pop Star Wars they'd have been obligated to do it, because the net benefit in their eyes wouldn't be there.
And yes, people don't really read books anymore in general.
>Also I really like how normalfags will only diss Lucas and what he approves of when its convenient for them, but then they do a 180 when it comes to bashing the EU like saying uninformed shit like "he outright said that he hated it and doesn't approve of anything in it" or using Lucas's "approval" of TFA, RO and TLJ as to why these movies should be loved yet will not hesitate to shit on him when he gave his own idea for the sequels.
This was exactly my point. It's an inconsistency based on EU hating groupthink and the perception that anyone who likes the EU is a sperg.
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No.20383
>>20366
But they are right. You've not explained why their points are wrong. Also Armond White is contrarian.
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No.20384
>>20382
>I should also mention that the official reason given by Disney was that catering to the EU would stifle their creative freedom. If the EU was as popular as pop Star Wars they'd have been obligated to do it, because the net benefit in their eyes wouldn't be there.
I don't think popularity would've mattered since the Marvel movies referenced things that were obscure and/or unpopular to the casual audiences, and its proven successful because it helped to reintroduce them and recreate them. I'm pretty sure Disney just wanted to take the easiest shortcut possible, that and JJ prefers retconning things that aren't his own while shoving in mystery boxes that can't be spoilered, and its clear they've realized their mistake now what with Solo shoehorning in as many EU references as they could (which felt like they just skimmed through Wookieepedia) and the recent Clone Wars revival which has somewhat succeeded in converting easily swayed sheep back to the Disney side.
On another note, didn't Leland Chee say that the possible real reason the EU was canned was because it killed off Chewbacca? He works on the inside and he's an EU buff, so his word might be worth trusting more than the ones written up by Kennedy's drones for the sake of damage control.
>>20383
>Armond White
Who? And I have to agree that while RLM does seem overly hateful of the prequels, they do make solid points, and even EU fans were initially dissatisfied with Episode I in how loosely it was connected to pre-existing novels and other media.
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No.20387
>>20383
Nigger read this, it's a whole essay pointing everything wrong with RLM's review of TPM to an autistic degree. Also could you fags stop derailing this thread? We already have a whole thread dedicated to discussing RLM.
>>14571
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No.20389
>>20353
>RedLettermedia is generally correct about everything they say about the prequels
>Me personally I've always hated the prequel art design. It just doesn't look Star Wars to me.
>My main issue with RLM is that they don't like the EU
Christ how is it possible for someone to be this unnuanced? Don't get me wrong, I love the EU too and get angry everytime someone makes fun of it, but you are literally an NPC my man. You are literally an assassin's creed-tier NPC. Worse than a normie. You are a computer program.
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No.20390
>>20364
RLM's EU bashing is implicit because it follows the parameters and mentality of a lot of EU bashing. Cherry pick admittedly objectively bad things like autistically going into detail about Vader's suit, triclops, IG-88's brain in the Death Star II, etc. (not saying they mentioned the latter two, but it's besides the point), and then using this to explicitly argue or imply the EU is bad as a whole or "mostly bad", even tho the objectively bad shit isn't the majority of it. It's basically just skimming wookieepedia and finding bad stuff. It's actually really illogical when you think about it.
I want you to note that people who do this rarely ever actually read most EU material at all. It's this weird psychological thing that happens that's hard to explain, but it's based on the EU being, once again, mostly relatively inaccessible reading-based media, so people usually, who are just knowledgeable about pop Star Wars, will look at wookieepedia and just run into an article about "Luuke" and be really weirded out because it feels like some nerd stuff talking down to them because they never experienced it before, but it's primarily "pretentious" because it's out of context relative to the media they're used to, and from the "nerdy" realm of "supplementary" reading materials - whereas if the same story was done in a well-executed movie there'd be no such stigma, or at least far less. They didn't see the nuances of how he fit into the story, just some summary. It's also worth noting that he's not canonically "Luuke"; Zahn just didn't want to write "Luke's Clone" or "Luke 2" constantly so he settled for that. It's an out-of-universe way of signifying it to the audience.
But perhaps the worst type of EU bashing - which is a mentality explicitly held by RLM and their fans (though not always framed in reference to the EU) - is this belief that certain stories told in the Star Wars universe are implicitly bad more based on some principle of what Star Wars is, and not due to the quality of the work. To give specific hypothetical examples, this would imply at the very least things like the Corellian Crisis trilogy or The Black Fleet crisis trilogy - and of course the Vong series - is somehow bad in principle cus "waah I don't want that in muh star wars!!!" To me Star Wars is as much about the setting and aesthetic as "muh Jedi", so having contextually realistic things take place in the universe was always fine and cool to me, and I've had a lot of trouble relating to people who criticize the EU for this reason. Obviously there's a line you don't cross, but this mentality has always seemed so soullessly closed minded and boring to me.
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No.20391
>>20389
How? I don't follow.
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No.20393
>>20359
>It was unrealistic for them to cater to EU fans by confusing normie audiences with references to the Yuuzhan Vong and such.
They could have gone literal decades without touching the Vong or other divisive stuff like Dark Empire. Old Republic movies, Rogue Squadron movies, Thrawn, Shadows of the Empire, there's so much there. They bought a license to print money and threw it in the garbage.
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No.20394
>>20393
This. I'm honestly wondering if Disney is actually managed by idiots. Marvel movies do mostly well due to Marvel studios being mostly independent, yet the management for the comics, games and merch has been utterly mediocre or downright terrible.
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No.20397
>>20387
This guy has a shit sense of humor ("Plinkett is as annoying as Jar Jar",
"Plinkett sounds like a meanie!!!") and childish writing style, but I'll admit his points about the alleged plot holes are correct and this PDF does a good job of debunking a lot of RLM's arguments. The real reason, once again, why the prequels suck is the tone deafness of them and the autistic vibes of the film making itself, not per say the writing, but the execution. Once again hard to quantify, whereas plot holes real or imagined are relatively easy to quantify.
The point made near the beginning of the Revenge of the Sith Plinkett review is in reality the pervasive reason why the prequels as a whole are generally trash - they feel tone deaf and go from serious to slapstick to autistic childishness with zero film making skill, utilizing soulless cinematography to display lots of visual clutter. It really does come off like a robot that doesn't understand how to draw humans in made them. There may be exceptions but it's pervasive enough to ruin the films.
Another point that's made that's true is, quite frankly, some plot points that aren't per say plot holes or contradictory in-universe are just sorta bad, uncool decisions anyway. For example whilst there may be an in-universe explanation as to why Anakin built a pre-existing droid model produced in a factory somewhere (maybe he just scavenged parts of that particular droid model to make it?), it's just lame to feel the need to shoehorn C3PO into the prequels that way, and just overall weird that Vader built him. It also makes the universe feel super small.
Another example is that a visor that blinds you and a drone is Official Jedi Training™. That's just kinda lame and uninteresting compared to Obi-Wan conceiving of makeshift training using whatever Han had in the Falcon; it was clearly put in the prequels to be like "GUYS LOOK REMEMBER??????"
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No.20398
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>20390
>It's this weird psychological thing that happens that's hard to explain, but it's based on the EU being, once again, mostly relatively inaccessible reading-based media
Is there a proper name for this? Its like some sort of new age psychological contempt for books in general that coincides well with things like YOLO culture.
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No.20399
>>20398
>Is there a proper name for this?
Degeneracy. Tech-enabled short attention span if you want to get more specific.
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No.20402
>>20398
I don't think it's some pervasive anti-book mentality per say, I think it's more specifically in that context and kinda lowkey.
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No.20403
>>20402
Certainly seems anti-book when you see reactions to non-mainstream reading material on sites like twitter, facebook and youtube (much like my time in the shitpit that was college). Most that are actually avid readers have stuff like Ready Player One as their #1 "Must Read" because of all the memes, toilet humor and 80s references.
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No.20408
>>20403
It's more to do with books juxtaposed to the films that spawned them, than books in general, when it comes to EU bashing.
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No.20415
>>20359
>confusing audiences with ebin references
>u r just defending le prequels out of le spite for le Jews xD
You can go back anytime now >>>/marvel/
>>>/leddit/
>>>/suicide/
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No.20458
>>20415
Prequels are just autistic films in general with exceptions. There's a soullessness to the film making and tone shifts all over. To be honest parts of them are embarrassing. Disney stuff sucks too.
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No.20464
>>20458
The most appealing thing about the prequels was the setting, visuals and ideas presented, the execution was atrocious though and they already felt like Disney films even back then. Now if they had gone with Timothy Zahn's idea for the Clone Wars, that would've been something. In the end what saved the prequels was the EU media surrounding it like the games, books and guides that expanded upon the limited scope of the films and made them feel better if you had delved into the tie-in stories. Genndy Wars along with the games in particular are what truly made me love the prequels. And b4 anyone assumes anything, no, I don't think Jar Jar was shit. He helped to serve as the eyes for the audience in a setting that would've felt alien to them, in fact the only Jar Jar scenes that were genuinely unneeded were the ones where he gets his tongue paralyzed and where an Eopie farts in his face which just ruins the mood of the impressive flag-carrying scene.
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No.20509
The main issue with the EU is more than half of it is generic Rebelwank about "muh evil dum nazees" where X-Wings are masturbated and Wedge Antilles blows up 700 Executors with a blaster pistol.
If more of the EU was less cucked, like Empire-as-heroes, I'd like it more.
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No.20515
>>20509
Isn't that more Disney Canon? Yeah I guess you're talking about the X-Wing novels but who cares they were awesome, and furthermore they didn't…imply-politicize it like they're doing with Disney. It wasn't topically politicized, if that makes any sense. Mentality was different. It's like the difference between the first Wolfenstein games and the latest one. Both had Nazis as villains but…I think you get the point.
The EU definitely portrayed the Imperials as more nuanced and sympathetic at times, for example with Thrawn. Disney would be unlikely to do that, at least anywhere near the same degree, and it would be more out of a perceived obligation to be nuanced in some areas. But overall they me even consider it irresponsible considering how they're more making the Imperials topically political to make them nuanced or sympathetic, especially the New Order.
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No.20516
Who let the shills in here? GET OUT OF THIS THREAD, how the fuck is the quality of the prequels and RLM on topic of this thread?
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No.20517
>>20516
Does it really matter? Like, we all know (((who))) is behind the destruction of Star Wars. It was inevitable that discussion would meander to other topics. Y'know, because that's what happens in a conversation, you move on to other things as you exhaust a particular topic.
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No.20518
>>20509
Lots of the EU treats the Remnant as just another faction and not uniquely evil.
>>20515
>Yeah I guess you're talking about the X-Wing novels but who cares they were awesome, and furthermore they didn't…imply-politicize it like they're doing with Disney.
The X-Wing novels absolutely did. The difference is that they had a layer of abstraction that's not present in nucanon. Both treat the rebels/resistance as being good because of their diversity, but in the X-Wing books that diversity is shown through them having lots of weird aliens, as opposed to nucanon where it's shown through the main characters being niggers and strong womyn. X-Wing is also a little bit more nuanced and willing to show the bad sides of diversity, like Gavin Darklighter almost getting lynched because a Bothan calls him a bigot (he then ends up fucking said Bothan because Stackpole is a furfag, but that's another subject entirely).
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No.20519
>>20518
I miss Bothan bashing. Nu-Canon just does its best to avoid Bothans altogether and never show them while re-using that same god-awful "many bothans died" line over and over again, even as a joke.
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No.20569
>>20320
>reddit spacing
>shit that doesn't apply to me
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No.20570
>>20509
>the empire should be the heroes
Found the edgelord.
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No.20573
>>20569
>r-reddit spacing
Go back to /v/ nigger. You ruined Star Wars.
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No.20637
>>20573
>muh reddit spacing is just a meme
Go back to reddit, you ruined Star Wars cuck.
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No.20638
>>20573
>somehow OTfans are responsible for the Disney movies
<even though the Disney movies shit all over the EU and OT characters
Disney ruined Star Wars and trying to blame it on OT fans is supreme cuckoldry. You're basically selling out your own fandom because you're a newfag.
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No.20660
>>20518
I've only finished book one of X-wing so far, but wasn't the diversity shit at least partially self-aware? Early in the book, I think Horn was commenting on how there were so many token ayys around and either Wedge or some other higher-up acknowledged that it was really just a PR stunt to get more worlds on board with the Rebellion/New Republic.
>>20569
>>20637
>only redditors can linebreak twice
Your own image gives it away, you autist, as >>20320 is single-spaced after the greentext quote. If there was a line in between the quoted posts and the quote, and between the quote and the reply, you might have a point.
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No.20664
>>20660
> Early in the book, I think Horn was commenting on how there were so many token ayys around and either Wedge or some other higher-up acknowledged that it was really just a PR stunt to get more worlds on board with the Rebellion/New Republic.
Almost everyone in the squadron, including the humans, is there for political reasons as well as for their flying skills. Erisi Dlarit and Bror Jace are there because of their bacta cartel connections. Dealing with political/bureaucratic interference is a big part of the conflict early on in the books. It's an interesting contrast to TLJ, which has the same kind of conflict but tries to make the hotshot pilot wrong and the bureaucratic cunt right (while not really succeeding).
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No.20665
>>20664
Right, yeah. So while there was still some amount of "Rebels r gud cuz dey diverse, dey give Rhodians mo money fo dem programs," it was tempered a bit by the author acknowledging that this decision was made for pragmatic reasons rather than lofty, multi-species idealism.
If I had saved that webbum of the Asian chick droning "diversityyyy" in a deadeyed monotone I would post it.
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No.20724
>>20570
>liking the right side makes you an edgelord
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