efaba0 No.31689 [Last50 Posts]
See title. Now I know Voyager is often overshadowed by the other series, notably DS9 and TNG, but it still beats Discovery by a long shot.
Anyone else think that the writers shouldn't have had the Vidiians obtain a cure to the phage? IMO they should have set them up to attempt to invade Qo'nos in the alpha quadrant after discovering that Klingons have immunity to the phage. Voyager would have to take responsibly of accidentally introducing the Klingons to the Vidiians (the latter who are infamous for their organ-harvesting practices). It could be neat to watch the Klingons face the threat of having their entire race harvested in a similar way in which the Borg attempted to assimilate Earth.
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8bdc35 No.31690
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ddd3a4 No.31691
>>31689
>It could be neat to watch the Klingons face the threat of having their entire race harvested in a similar way in which the Borg attempted to assimilate Earth.
Implying the writers wouldn't have 'Saint Janeway' swoop in at the last minute to save the entire Klingon Empire, she is then granted the Order of the Bat'leth; at this point Kah'less returns from the dead to call her a 'cool dude' and fist bump her before disappearing with no good explanation.
>it still beats Discovery by a long shot
and getting punched in the face is better than being shot in the balls. I'm not all that keen to be punched in the face if I can avoid it though.
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3b4738 No.31696
>>31689
> it still beats Discovery by a long shot.
It beats SeaQuest too, but usually we only compare it to other Star Trek shows, not random garbage like STD
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00cc24 No.31697
>>31689
The Vidiians wouldn't arrive on Qo'Nos for 60 years, how would that work exactly?
Since there's very little that can be said seriously about Voyager, this is now an insane Janeway /strek/-canon thread: the reason Janeway consistently sabotages ways for Voyager to get home is because she's been in contact with Admiral Paris this whole time, and is holding Tom hostage in exchange for Admiralship when she gets home. Every time Paris refuses one of her demands, she delays Voyager 10 years and goes, "look what you made me do."
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3dae6b No.31698
>>31696
SeaQuest season 3 was pretty good, if only because Michael Ironside makes anything better.
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976c64 No.31699
>>31697
>>31697
All those detours for coffee, now I truly understand.
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efaba0 No.31706
>>31691
>Implying the writers wouldn't have 'Saint Janeway' swoop in at the last minute to save the entire Klingon Empire, she is then granted the Order of the Bat'leth; at this point Kah'less returns from the dead to call her a 'cool dude' and fist bump her before disappearing with no good explanation.
Oh god, I'm cringing just picturing this.
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75fd60 No.31707
>>31706
who the hell said voyager was better then enterprise again? If it's better then its also worst because quite frankly I'd take bad enterprise over bad voyager any day of the ding dong week. Voyager was glorified fanfic with all the pluses and minuses that comes with it, Enterprise was a solid trek show with a so so premise (timetravel) that took too long to really get its feet under it (they deserved S5 but no anymore).
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ddd3a4 No.31710
>>31706
It could be worse. Imagine how STD would handle the same scenario. be sure to have your puke bucket ready and waiting before you do
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fa504f No.31711
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
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9c80bd No.31712
>>31707
Voyager's problem is that it's insanely mediocre most of the time when it isn't being terrible. It's bascially TNG seasons 8-13, even though the premise doesn't really support that. The premise is about a Starfleet ship far from the logistics of the Federation, and having to deal with being on their own in an unknown region of space. Theoretically, this lends it alot of story opportunities for conflict, but most of it boils down to typical TNG-esque shenanigans.
There was so much set up, like a good portion of personnel being Ma'qui or the ship having to make tough choices between their ideals and pragmatism but it's all just wasted. I don't think Enterprise is as bad, but I think it really got fucked over by being preceded by DS9 and VOY, but also having competition in the form of Stargate. I think it would have been better if instead of inserting the time travel bullshit, they just make it so the Romulans are hiring the Sullaban to probe Earth and have the early seasons be worldbuilding for the Federation's founding members.
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7265e6 No.31713
>>31712
>it would have been better if instead of inserting the time travel bullshit, they just make it so the Romulans are hiring the Sullaban to probe Earth and have the early seasons be worldbuilding
this, the "temporal cold war" dumbass arc killed ENT
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c4661a No.31714
>>31712
PLEASE google your proper nouns for spelling before you post in future.
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ddd3a4 No.31715
>>31713
Could have been interesting if they'd played it a lot more subtly (as in Easter Egg tier) and had actually made the reveal some time in, say, season 9 or something.
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b7c929 No.31716
>>31712
You're being nostalgic, TNG was just as bad 99% of the time. It had maybe 10-20 good episodes over its many seasons, in which there is maybe half an hour of lines delivered with any kind of talent.
The problem with Voyager wasn't that it was mediocre, the problem is that it was consistently mediocre. At no point was there any exceptional acting or storytelling going on.
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3b4738 No.31717
>>31716
>You're being nostalgic,
funny how rare "nostalgia goggles" is for VOY…
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c4661a No.31718
>>31716
It's not just the good episodes being great, it's the average episodes being good. A TNG 10 is a VOY 8, TNG 7 is a VOY 6, though a TNG 4 is still a VOY 4.
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7265e6 No.31720
>>31716
>At no point was there any exceptional acting or storytelling going on.
voyager had some interesting episodes; like when janeway wrecklessly used transported technology which killed two of her crew members and then created a 3rd sentient crewmember. She then murdered the 3rd sentient crewmember to create two clones of her previous crewmembers.
The amount of heresy in this episode is beyond comprehension.
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b538d6 No.31721
>>31720
To be fair it was one of the few times Voyager managed to not pretend that Janeway was so obviously morally right that everyone who dared opposed her must simply be evil. The EMH refused to do Janeway's killing for her and she did look pretty torn up about doing it after the fact.
I mean, in any other work of fiction what Janeway did would've been the evil plot by an insane sorcerer that the heroes are out to stop. Using magic to pervert nature by raising the dead in exchange for an innocent blood sacrifice. Or a mad scientist and secret technology, take your pick. But at least everyone felt kinda awkward about doing it.
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ddd3a4 No.31722
>>31716
It's almost like having a main character whose only recognisable trait is 'Mary Sue" is a terrible idea.
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51a015 No.31723
>>31720
It's amusing that of all the people who could have been involved in that, one of them was Neelix, the very same character who had fallen victim to the Vidiians' willingness to kill to save their own.
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ba3b6e No.31742
>all this hate for Voyager
Admittedly the cast wasn't as likeable as the TNG cast except Seven of Boobs and The Doctor, but the best Voyager episodes easily match the best TNG episodes
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e769d2 No.31752
>>31742
Not true, the best VOY eps are on par with merely high tier TNN eps. Please explain how Tuvix or Equinox is just as good as All Good Things…
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ba3b6e No.31758
>>31752
Tuvix and Equinox are not the best YOY episodes. Those are One Year of Hell, Scorpion, Dark Frontier, Counterpoint. Then you have tons of entertaining upper-middle tier episode like Living Witness, Latent Image, Raven, Unity, In the Flesh, Message in a Bottle, Course: Oblivion, etc. which are on the same level as TNG upper-middle tier episodes. In generally TNG misses a stable middle tier, it's either really good or really bad/boring. Maybe TNG beats VOY in terms of the best episodes but VOY wins the middle field.
I agree VOY was playing it too safe and wasted a lot of its potential, but to say it is significantly worse than TNG is just nostalgia. I agree with the VOY you couldn't have a movie, but then again most TNG movies were crap too.
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e54e07 No.31763
>>31720
Just noticed he looks a bit like bortus from the Orville
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8505c5 No.31776
>>31689
TNG and DS9 aged worse than VOY. The aging political correctness of the former makes them preachy and cringey, while at least the latter focuses on being action fun.
Voyager just wanted to make fun Star Trek episodes. The previous TNG era series were propaganda first, and entertainment later.
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a81b6b No.31777
>>31752
>All Good Things
Honestly that's not the top tier of TNG. If it wasn't a finale it'd be less well regarded.
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8ad389 No.31805
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>31758
Year of Hell or Course:Oblivion easily could have been movies. For fuck's sake YoH could have been an entire spinoff SERIES all on its own, and significantly better than the parent series in a lot of ways. They probably should have made at least an entire season of that, but unfortunately VOY was made in a time where TV shows made most of their money in syndication, and so had to have "episodic" rather than "serial" content. As in: every episode has to start from status-quo so that if you missed the previous episode you wouldn't be totally confused at what was going on. This meant that a whole series or even just a short string of episodes with a plot that advanced serially from one episode to the next just would never happen. This was a time when Game of Thrones never could have worked.
Which makes me sad because NOW we could totally have this series. We could have a serial, dynamic, gritty reboot of Voyager where consequences and plotlines from each and every episode cause direct consequences for all of the rest. Maybe even get someone on the staff that keeps count of the fucking torpedoes this time.
>>31776
>Voyager just wanted to make fun Star Trek episodes
Exactly. Can you imagine Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy happening in any of the other Trek series? Of course not. TOS would have it be part of some crazy Romulan brainwashing plot. TNG would spend most of the episode on a debate over the philosophical implications of dreams and the right to privacy. DS9 would play the spy part completely straight, and ignore the rest. ENT would have it be some fever-dream of Trip's or some kind of timey-wimey-ball thing. In absolutely none of these would anyone have ever suggested the Goddamn ECH, which remains the most hilarious thing to ever come out of the franchise. If I had to pick ONE THING to define Voyager to someone who had never seen a single episode, it would be this.
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3b4738 No.31838
>>31805
>We could have a serial, dynamic, gritty reboot of Voyager where consequences and plotlines from each and every episode cause direct consequences for all of the rest. Maybe even get someone on the staff that keeps count of the fucking torpedoes this time.
New season of STD coming! They're "lost in space" now, or so I've heard.
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8ad389 No.31858
>>31838
STD is even less Trek than JJ Trek. If Voyager is an affectionate parody of the truest form of the franchise, all this new shit is second-generation fanfiction by really incompetent writers.
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a81b6b No.31862
>>31805
> but unfortunately VOY was made in a time where TV shows made most of their money in syndication, and so had to have "episodic" rather than "serial" content. As in: every episode has to start from status-quo so that if you missed the previous episode you wouldn't be totally confused at what was going on. This meant that a whole series or even just a short string of episodes with a plot that advanced serially from one episode to the next just would never happen. This was a time when Game of Thrones never could have worked.
Game of Thrones and other excessively serialised tv shows are fucking terrible. The hybrid approach of 90% episodic 10% mini 2-3 episode arcs sometimes dipping into the same plot (e.g. TNG's Klingon politics episodes) is far superior unless you're going for a 6-7 episode long mini-series when serial is a fine approach.
>Which makes me sad because NOW we could totally have this series. We could have a serial, dynamic, gritty reboot of Voyager where consequences and plotlines from each and every episode cause direct consequences for all of the rest. Maybe even get someone on the staff that keeps count of the fucking torpedoes this time.
This just turns into soap opera in space shit like nu-BSG.
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6f8310 No.31870
>>31706
That practically happened. Kahless did show up in an episode.
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fa504f No.31874
>>31870
That was a somewhat boring episode, though it was very thought provoking.
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df5cd1 No.31878
>>31874
It wasn't thought provoking it was dumb as shit. They just cloned the primary religious figure of the entire fucking planet fulfilling a bajillion year old prophecy for the planet's only or at least primary religion and it was never worth mentioning ever again in any other episode or had any bearing on any future events at all whatsoever. That'd be like the shroud of Turin turning out to be legit, taking some blood from it, cloning Jesus fucking Christ, announcing to the whole world you just cloned Jesus fucking Christ, then there being no fallout whatsoever among the world population and everything just going on as normal. It would have caused absolute chaos.
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fa504f No.31889
>>31878
>That'd be like the shroud of Turin turning out to be legit, taking some blood from it, cloning Jesus fucking Christ, announcing to the whole world you just cloned Jesus fucking Christ, then there being no fallout whatsoever among the world population and everything just going on as normal. It would have caused absolute chaos.
That's what I meant by thought provoking. It was a bland execution, but the idea is very interesting.
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c0a4f3 No.31890
>>31878
Think about the fact that the clone Kahless had to be taught to "remember" the events in their holy texts. If a clone of Jesus appeared and started spouting one specific interpretation of Christianity as taught by the ones who cloned him, it would make the Thirty Years' War look like playground roughhousing. And that's if he was taught a major branch; a sect out-there enough to clone that kind of figure would be very likely to have beliefs considered heretical by the mainstream. What would happen if Clone Jesus appeared and started preaching Arianism?
Naming the color of a man's eyes would be the least of his concerns.
It's especially dumb when later in DS9 they decide that the sword of Kahless is too dangerous and divisive to bring back to the Empire, so they dump it in deep space. Apparently the sword would spark an all-consuming civil war, but cloning the guy himself and sticking him on the throne is just fine?
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df5cd1 No.31891
>>31889
I know, I'm just spouting off because that episode boils my beans.
>>31890
You're right. Fuck I forgot about that DS9 episode. That makes the old wound hurt even more.
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e4547a No.31899
>>31862
>Game of Thrones and other excessively serialised tv shows are fucking terrible
You can't argue that the first four seasons of GoT were bad, they are still one if the best things television has ever produced.
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a81b6b No.31909
>>31899
>You can't argue that the first four seasons of GoT were bad, they are still one if the best things television has ever produced.
I can and I will. Everything after about the mid point of the second season is just repetitive and ever-sillier twists twists, outright filler and overly dramatic monologues-about-my-backstory-to-camera as with all 'character development' heavy shows that have managed more than ~12 or so episodes. Golden age of television my arse.
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8a6365 No.31914
>>31909
I'm with this gentleman. The first seasons of GoT, TWD, Breaking Bad, House of Cards, and so on all convinced us that we're in the golden age of TV. Yet every single one of those shows went to shit, usually pretty quickly. The golden age of TV started in 1989 and ended in 2007.
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e4547a No.31926
>>31909
>I can and I will. Everything after about the mid point of the second season is just repetitive and ever-sillier twists twists, outright filler and overly dramatic monologues-about-my-backstory-to-camera as with all 'character development' heavy shows that have managed more than ~12 or so episodes.
Don't want to derail the thread, but come on, have you even watched the show? Second season suffered from lengths in the building up to the Battle of Blackwater, which was one of the best battles in television, then you had stuff like the Red Wedding, Purple Wedding, Battle at the Wall, Oberyn vs Mountain, Tyrion trial, etc. which was all great and built up pretty good either. They largely followed the books and when they inserted their own dialog it was usually fitting. This all came with good actors and sets. I know you want to hate the show because it's normie stuff now, and you can easily hate season 5 to 8, I do too, they are pretty abhorrent and get worse the closer the show approaches its rushed ending.
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e4547a No.31927
>>31914
TWD was pretty bad in the beginning already, especially season two with 20 episodes of farm life. Season 3 and 4 had some moments but also tons of filler.
Generally writers don't seem to able to keep the quality up for longer than four seasons in all these shows.
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df5cd1 No.31929
>>31927
Most shows go to shit after 4 seasons. After you reach a certain point you've already done all the possibilities you can with a cast and setting. If you want to keep going you either have to start repeating yourself or make radical changes. Either way you're in a shit minefield.
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2e0152 No.31930
>>31929
I dont agree with this, mostly because season lengths are so inconsistent. TWD season 1 was 6 episodes as was the last GoT season, meanwhile TNG was 26 episodes.
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2e0152 No.31931
>>31927
Once a modern show gets popular, they force the writers to include all sorts of political and marketing bullshit that undermines the story.
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df5cd1 No.31932
>>31930
New TV doesn't count. You shouldn't be watching anything made after about 2005.
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82dbff No.31933
>>31929
I'd amend this to four seasons after they git gud. TNG didn't become shit until S7, but S3 was also the first good season.
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a81b6b No.31934
>>31926
>but come on, have you even watched the show?
For five and a half seasons though after the mid point of 2 I was just watching it because /tv/ had a stream and the shitposting was fun /tv/ going to shit didn't help I could see exactly where it was going.
>Second season suffered from lengths in the building up to the Battle of Blackwater, which was one of the best battles in television, then you had stuff like the Red Wedding, Purple Wedding, Battle at the Wall, Oberyn vs Mountain, Tyrion trial, etc. which was all great and built up pretty good either.
Most of that is just repackaging the same basic when-suddenly-a-twist or unrealistic battle with sillier justification each time and slapping in the aforementioned overly dramatic monologues people think are good acting for some reason.
>They largely followed the books and when they inserted their own dialog it was usually fitting.
The books also got pretty silly honestly. See: Lady Stoneheart.
>I know you want to hate the show because it's normie stuff now, and you can easily hate season 5 to 8, I do too, they are pretty abhorrent and get worse the closer the show approaches its rushed ending.
Nice projection. I dislike any show of this sort including for example nu-BSG or SG:U both of which are far from normalfag tier.
All of these types of shows usually follow the same broad pattern:
>S1
Well written and planned out but writes a lot of its starting characters out and writes itself into a corner where any non-silly story would just wrap things up with an actual ending. Characters are killed off with generally good reason. If S1 was just a film, a trilogy or a mini-series it'd be amazing but it makes far too much money for that. Light amount of filler to make up the length if needed but usually that's an excuse for a fun side plot.
>S2
Remaining characters start to have their existing traits and motivations turned up to 11 to compensate, plots either get sillier or rehash what S1 did. Show slowly morphs into a generic soap opera/'character drama' but with the trappings of the show's settings (soap opera in space, soap opera in medieval low fantasy, soap opera but with police etc). Characters are killed off as a cheap way to keep people paying attention. Filler is often just skip it tier.
>S3
Heavy introduction of new characters who are either extremely shallow/mary sues or are inferior versions of a similar character they already killed off. Plots are now almost entirely repeats or just silly ass-pulls, they also have to keep upping the stakes of the dramatic moments (plot escalation or whatever you want to call it). We're entering prime soap opera territory. Filler now noticeable and worthless.
>S4-S5/S6
A handful of early characters, either fan favourites or writer favourites, will still exist but the rest of the show is a slowly rotating set of stock characters and plots. The main plotline will have slowed to a crawl. Filler heavy from this point onwards with entire episodes being pretty much a single tiny thing happening surrounded by normalfag-bait non-acting or action scenes.
>S6/S7
Remaining early characters start to die off as their actors ask for too much money or just because there's nothing else left to do. Show quality now so low normalfags will notice and start to complain.
>Indeterminate point after this
Eventually the show will run out of stuff to do, the normalfag audience starts to drop off and so it gets a massively unsatisfying ending 7-8 seasons later than it should have.
Some shows like this, particularly older ones, are less prone to killing off characters so you don't have as much replacement of them though usually side characters who end up popular will still get added to the main cast and have their traits turned up to 11 until they're a parody of themselves but the parts about plot escalation still apply. In almost all cases you could have just ended it at the end of S1 or combined S1+S2, snipped some filler and had yourself and amazing miniseries instead. Look at Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy series not film for what I'm talking about.
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e4547a No.31936
>>31930
TNG was episodical and didn't have the budget of a summer blockbuster for three episodes. This was likely the reason for the shorter and shorter seasons, HBO always keeps their money tight, even for their flagship.
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e4547a No.31937
>>31934
>Most of that is just repackaging the same basic when-suddenly-a-twist or unrealistic battle with sillier justification each time and slapping in the aforementioned overly dramatic monologues people think are good acting for some reason.
I disagree. The dialogs in GoT up to season 4 were genuinely good, see dialogs between Varys and Littlefinger about the "climb", dialog between Tyrion and Tywin after the Battle of Blackwater, dialog between Cersei and Sansa during the battle, Tyrion's monolog at his trial, etc. - honestly name a show that has better ones.
The silly justification is also wrong. Tywin's intervention was carefully built up, with him scheming in Harrenhall between a rock and a hard place, Littlefinger being sent to Highgarden, etc. - it wasn't a deus ex machina like the LOTR's ghost army, although it was presented as that in the episode for dramatic purposes.
>The books also got pretty silly honestly. See: Lady Stoneheart.
Didn't make it into the show but she's obviously in the books to spice up the Riverland/Tully story.
>If S1 was just a film, a trilogy or a mini-series it'd be amazing but it makes far too much money for that.
You have the great evil (White Walkers) and Dany's quest with the Dothraki introduced, obviously stuff that can't be solved in season one that was merely But brilliantly setting the stage for the War of the Five Kings, it would make no sense to make a mini-series out of it. The entire show built up to stuff happening in seasons 2-4.
>Remaining characters start to have their existing traits and motivations turned up to 11 to compensate, plots either get sillier or rehash what S1 did.
lol no. In season two you had characters being thrown in situations that made logical sense which were at odds with their character design: Theon as a arrogant young noble being humiliated by his father and sister and having to deal with a bunch of rag-tag raiding party of Vikings while pushing his loyalty conflict to the extreme, and Tyrion being made a ruler instead of a witty sidekick and then even being thrown into battle, a quality he the least possesses. This continued in season three, with Jamie for example loosing the one thing that defines him - his swordhand. The story with Jon and the Wildlings I also found generally chilling. The Daenerys storyline I always found the least interesting but the moment where she liberated the slaves had merit. But I agree she was a bit of a Mary Sue compared to her obviously unstable teenage drama queen counterpart in the books. Tyrion was also whitewashed.
>soap opera in space
Then what do you think of DS9? It does all what you criticise but even more obvious.
>Characters are killed off as a cheap way to keep people paying attention.
What death in GoT before season 5 doesn't make sense? Robb had to go, he maneuvered himself into a dead end storywise. Oberyn had to go to incite the conflict with Dorne (admittedly horribly executed in the show in the later seasons), Jeor Mormont had to go to obviously make way for Jon and his conflict with Aillsar Thorne. The only death that was truly unnecessary was the one of Barristan Selmy, but AFAIK that was in season 5? Contrary to popular belief, GoT actually has quite a bit of plot armour for their main characters, the reason why they have this reputation is because they kill off the fan favourites and don't milk them till the end, up until season 5 at least. Bronn, the Hound, etc. were obviously just fan service in the seasons 5-8.
>plot escalation or whatever you want to call it
How is that a bad thing? You'd expect a show to increase the stakes? STD had Micheal Burnhum save the entire universe in season 2, this is why everybody doesn't give a shit anymore.
>filler
The only filler I can think off was Arya's and Cleganes travelogue in season 4 which was a direct result of splitting book 3 into two seasons.
Your critique may be correct for many shows but I think for early GoT you are being unfair.
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8ad389 No.32000
>>31890
If Jesus was cloned absolutely nothing would happen. Literally everyone would just deny that he was actually Jesus. Even if he could perform Miracles, everyone would say it was fake or magic tricks or whatever. The entire point of faith is that is revolves around an unknown.
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047382 No.32055
>>32000
But what if Jesus needed a Starship?
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54f60a No.32066
>>32055
>But what if Jesus needed a Starship?
He'd build one.
Oh, wait. He is.
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00cc24 No.32079
>>32066
>reddit electric meme man
I bet you like STD.
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54f60a No.32088
>>32079
No, but I like space travel.
Or did I miss a memo forbidding wanting to see manned interplanetary flights happen sometime in my lifetime?
You'd think a goddamn STAR TREK board would be more appreciative of people who are trying to make that a reality. This fucking board, man…
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00cc24 No.32089
>>32088
>You'd think a goddamn STAR TREK board would be more appreciative of people who are trying to make that a reality.
Yeah, it is. And Musk isn't one of those people. He's a walking meme, non-entrepreneur whose only notable skill is his uncanny ability to constantly extract subsidies from the government for failing businesses.
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54f60a No.32093
>>32089
>Yeah, it is. And Musk isn't one of those people. He's a walking meme, non-entrepreneur whose only notable skill is his uncanny ability to constantly extract subsidies from the government for failing businesses.
Oh, you're one of THEM. Thanks for letting me know.
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00cc24 No.32094
>>32093
>roooooooo! Stop not liking what I like!
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3b4738 No.32097
>>32000
I'm not convinced, even nobodies with no credentials can make whole religions spring up around them. For example: Jesus. So Jesus 2.0 would have an advantage going in.
>>32089
He's got a twitter and he openly asked who controls the media, perhaps he's attempting to benefit mankind after all
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00cc24 No.32098
>>32097
>one tweet with no follow-up from a year ago means he's totally /ourguy/, guize!
I'm going to have to disagree there. It's fitting Musk comes from South Africa, because he's a more voracious beggar of gibs than Tyrone.
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9288ff No.32099
>>32097
Doubt he was referring to the jews with that tweet, but who knows.
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8ad389 No.32105
>>32089
>He's a walking meme
Very true, but memes make people pay attention, and attention is 95% of business.
>non-entrepreneur
Demonstrably false. He's built several companies from the ground up (Tesla, Paypal, SpaceX) which have been used to fund the next one.
>uncanny ability to constantly extract subsidies from the government for failing businesses
What? All of those are private companies, not government. I hope you don't mean NASA contracts, because that's a pittance compared to the monies SpaceX gets from other private companies or other countries. It turns out that a lot of people want to launch shit into space and are willing to pay a lot of money for that, big surprise. The US government actually lags a lot behind because they're too busy building trillion-dollar military machines that will never get used. You want to talk about subsidies? There's a company that got thrown several billion dollars last year so they could continue retrofitting tanks. FUCKING TANKS. What kind of fucking war do you think is going to be fought in this world of smart missiles and drones that we're going to need tanks in?
Just do one thing for me, a little thought experiment. Imagine you live in a world where every airplane is designed to be used once and then thrown away. Once over the destination, the passengers and pilots all parachute out, and then the plane is allowed to crash somewhere desolate. Then, suddenly one day a guy stands up and says, "Hey guys? What if we didn't crash the airplane every time, but landed it and then reused it for more flights later…?" and everyone called him crazy. That's the world we're currently living in.
>>32097
Jesus never existed. He was a fairy tale made up by the rulers of countries in order to pacify and control their population. It made convincing them to work like slaves for their entire lives simple as it promised an eternal reward with zero evidence, and threatened them through fear with eternal punishment should they not comply. They just split it apart a little (separation of church and state) so people would be deluded into thinking they we're the same fucking thing. The only reason it's stuck around for this long is because being ANCIENT lends credibility to nonsense, for some reason I cannot comprehend. Any attempt at founding "new" religions (see: Scientology) is inevitably ridiculed and fails, or is simple mostly based on existing ones (see: Mormonism, which is pretty old anyway).
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8a6365 No.32113
>>31758
>>31805
I just rewatched Year of Hell for the first time in years and while it was better than average for Voyager, it still is nowhere near as good as even merely good-tier episodes of the other series.
The episode starts with a Krenim official telling Janeway they're invading Krenim space and firing torpedoes. Janeway makes absolutely no attempt to resolve the situation diplomatically and literally laughs at him, says he has a small dick, and hangs up the phone.
It then plods along pretty well, driven by some great visual story-telling and dark shit happening (broken mirror/coffee cup, speech about the stopwatch, Tuvok going blind, the set getting increasingly fucked up) which is why I think people like the episode. This was definitely strong, as was the actor for the main antagonist, Annorax.
It goes downhill after that. At the end of the first episode, Annorax kidnaps Paris and Chakotay for no real reason except that episode 2 needed a B story and we needed an excuse to get to know Annorax better. There is a subplot with Chakotay and Paris where the latter threatens mutiny on the former when he thinks that he's been swayed by Annorax which is completely forgettable and falls under the usual Voyager banner of "Tom Paris is no Han Solo".
This is resolved when Annorax performs another temporal incursion after he had inspiration from a dream, but this creates more problems than it solves. Why doesn't anything at all change in the plot outside of Chakotay's motivations? Voyager literally doesn't even have life support, does it really have the ability to maintain its temporal shielding? What about all of the escape pods, were those people erased from history? The episode brushes over these questions.
Then Janeway is apprehended by the Doctor because she's got PTSD and its affecting her judgement. She tells him to fuck off, in direct violation of Starfleet protocol. While in isolation this would merely represent her mental state and the dire situation, in the context of Voyager it's just another example of Janeway being a hypocrite. It reminds me of the time she sentences some members of the Equinox crew to death by alien murder.
At the end of the two-parter, Voyager attacks the Krenim ship and destroys it. Voyager does this with the aid of a number of allied ships. We have no idea who these people are, what they look like, or what their motivations are. They literally just appear out of nowhere. Did Janeway really manage to convince people that there was some guy altering the timeline and only she had the power to stop him? And they agreed to fight alongside her 7-man crew on a fucked up ship instead of stealing her temporal shielding technology or bargaining with Annorax? And this all happened off-screen?
And at the end, the episode resets. While this is an obvious conclusion to a time travel episode, again in the context of Voyager it is really disappointing. The whole experience counts for nothing. I enjoyed bits of it, but I'd say at least 2/3s of the rest of Trek's catalog outclasses it.
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00cc24 No.32114
>>32105
>What? All of those are private companies, not government
I'm going to sit here patiently while you work out why companies that could not exist were it not for either direct subsidy, state contracts, or state-imposed regulations are guilty of receiving gibs.
>SpaceX
Receives over 5 billion in subsidies. Not contracts, subsidies, as in money they get for the virtue of existing before any actual work is done. It spends over a million in Congressional lobbying, and the result of this is that SpaceX rockets continue to be used despite being much less reliable than their competitors. SpaceX rockets are also 50% more expensive than their competitive, which was one of their only selling points in the first place. When SpaceX rockets crash, (such as the resupply vessel that did in 2015), no formal report is made by NASA, despite this being standard procedure. And SpaceX receives 80% of their payment for the trip despite it being an abject failure. In fact, NASA's response to this failure was to award Tyrone Musk a long-term contract. On top of all that, when SpaceX lost a contract that went to its competitors, Musk tried to sue the feds for not giving him the contract. This guy is so used to coasting off government gibs that he thinks he has a right to sue if hever stops getting them. And over 80% of said contracts from the Feds, hardly a "pittance" as you imply. And even SpaceX's profitability from those contracts is questionable. The company has only managed to claim positive earnings because of playing Enron-tier games with their books, counting prepaid customers in current year revenue and excluding costs that were "non-core" research. If the company was doing well they wouldn't have to pull shit like this.
>Tesla
Has yet to turn a profit. Stock value is freefalling due to investors realizing that reddit memes don't actually contribute to net earnings. Is currently the largest short in the US market. Receives over 280 million in federal assistance and millions more in state subsidies. Overstated production numbers of the Model 3 to taxpayers. Has a history of inflating prices to secure more tax credits.Musk keeps promising to be a mass-producing company despite electric cars being an upper and upper-middle class niche, and has no idea how to get there. Most of Tesla's sales have just been to other automakers seeking to get their "fleet average" MPG rating lower to appease the EPA; if the EPA's regulations didn't exist these sales wouldn't exist. And this isn't even getting into the problems with Tesla cars spontaneously combusting.
>The US government actually lags a lot behind because they're too busy building trillion-dollar military machines that will never get used
Excellent work, you 60-IQ Bantu. You've figured out that the military-industrial complex is nothing more than a shell game of kikery that wastes taxpayer money on useless projects. The fact that other people are doing what Musk is doing doesn't invalidate criticism of him.
>What kind of fucking war do you think is going to be fought in this world of smart missiles and drones that we're going to need tanks in?
Thank you for letting us know you're a retard when it comes to military theory as well as finance, it saves us the trouble of wondering if there's a worthwhile thought anywhere in your pretty little head.
All right guys, fess up. Which one of you faggots linked this place to reddit? We've got enough problems dealing with the diaperfags without niggerloving fedora-tippers shitting this place up.
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8ad389 No.32116
>>32114
Wow, you're a dumb nigger.
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4b86aa No.32124
>>32116
You've just been BTFO out of the known universe, redditor. Come up with something better.
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54f60a No.32126
>>32114
Awww, isnt that cute! Another butthurt TSLA shortseller stomping his feet and having a temper tantrum. I just love you guys. You're so entertaining.
If you REALLY want to short something, try Boeing. Between the MAX, KC-46, and SLS debacles, you'd have more luck there.
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00cc24 No.32127
>>32126
>projecting this hard
Only niggers short stocks.
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ba006f No.32131
>>32105
>Jesus never existed He was a fairy tale made up by the rulers of countries in order to pacify and control their population.
Hi /pol/
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202581 No.32132
>>32105
>Jesus never existed
Historyfag here, Jeshua ben Yosep is a known and confirmed historical figure in 1st century Judea. The Romans kept pretty good records and his execution for political agitation is pretty well described and more or less matches the non-fantastical parts of the biblical accounts pretty well. He was definitely a guy who existed, and his followers seemed pretty sure that they believed he was the son of God. That last part doesn't confirm he was anything other than a man, of course, the members of the Taiping Heavenly Sect of Great Peace were pretty sure that Hong Xiuquan was son of God as well, but claiming that Jesus is a fictional character makes you look like a retarded 14 year old who just started reading his first Dawkins meme.
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c944c5 No.32135
I liked Harry and Tom in their holosuite programs. Chakotay and Tuvok were quite good too. Picardo takes the crown by a mile. Neelix was a very difficult character to play, I blame the screenwriting but everything positive that he managed to pull was the actor. The real bummer about voyager is the lack of what every good show needs. Pretty girls in pretty clothing. I know it's sexist but when things are as bad as they are a tv show is the only place where you're allowed to look at a woman without causing some sort of trouble. Janeway was ok for my dad but I mean you have to give the young lad something to look at am I right or wrong?
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00cc24 No.32136
>>32135
>Janeway was ok for my dad
Is your dad going blind?
Voyager had Silicon of DD for eye candy in the second half of the show. Your analysis of the rest of the characters I have to disagree on. Paris is serviceable, if somewhat boring. Kim has no personality of his own, he only exists so Paris has a friend that he talks to. Chakotay likewise only exists so Janeway has someone to talk to, his whole personality is The Redskin First Officer. Janeway is insane. Tuvok is also serviceable. He's a Vulkan who's constantly sick and tired of the madhouse of a ship he's been put onto, which means the audience can relate to him a lot. The Doctor is top-tier and carries the entire show. I don't think Neelix is as annoying as some people say, but I don't really have anything positive to say about the character either.
>I know it's sexist
It's not. Even if it was, there's hardly anything wrong with acknowledging the reality that the sexes are different.
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c944c5 No.32138
>>32136
Now I remember. But she doesn't really count as she always acted cold as a borg and it would be way better if bikinis were standard starfleet uniforms. All in all the show left me with the impression of a screenwriting that was more about travelling through the galaxy than about human interactions. It's kind of a shame but I guess that's what Hollywood does, finding every way possible to destroy families and prevent people from forming stable relationships by showing viewers how they're expected to behave.
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a6f661 No.32139
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
you will never be Hirogen kebab remover and squish that pesky voyager crews resistance while rescuing seven from her life of deprivation all while wearing hugo boss.
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7c80ee No.32140
>>32055
I wish Jesus would release the plans for the warp drive. So we can get on with settling the Galaxy properly.
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3b4738 No.32143
>>32135
>Pretty girls in pretty clothing.
much is made of 7/9 but prime Kes was not bad
>>32136
>Kim has no personality of his own, he only exists so Paris has a friend that he talks to
One wonders why Paris exists
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df5cd1 No.32147
>>32143
I don't know why they wrote Paris instead of just using the Nova Squadron character he played from TNG. There's not even any major differences. At first I thought that's who Paris was.
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25a776 No.32148
>>32147
>Nova Squadron character
Nick Locarno. Supposedly they were just going to use that character, but the Voyager bean counters didn't want to pay royalties to use him, so they just created a new character.
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a6f661 No.32150
>>32147
his demotion was probably punishment from the superior bull caste. Getting assigned to Voyager was probably not a desirable assignment and in all likelihood a career killer. His philandering led to his banishment even though he had a high ranking daddy. Cucks beware.
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00cc24 No.32155
>>32143
Kes became okay after she grew her hair out.
Paris, unlike Kim, has a semblance of a personality and interests that are attached to him. Not enough to be a remarkable character, but serviceable by Voyager standards.
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a98080 No.32158
The original, TNG, Voyager, DS9. Everything else is complete shit IMHO.
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3c4d0a No.32159
>>32135
>I know it's sexist
t. guilty faggot pretending to be a man.
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a7e303 No.32163
>>31742
it's fashionable to hate voyager
i'll admit when i first watched it, i didnt like it either. There arent really any standouts or interesting characters but once the doctor steals the show and they add seven, it becomes one of my favorite series. Granted other shows have more good actors (DS9 most notably) voy is still enjoyable to watch, even if you already know what's going to happen. But its a bit like SG-1 once you fall in love with the characters, you love the show. If you dont, then you wont.
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c944c5 No.32164
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00cc24 No.32179
>>32163
But would you ever re-watch Voyager start to finish? I can easily do that with DS9, watching from the premier to the series finale in Season 6. Not so with Voyager. I'll watch the episodes I like again, but there's just too much garbage in between for me to do a start to finish run again.
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fa504f No.32180
>>32179
But that's easy to do with very episodic shows. Shit, There are even some TNGs I'd skip, even though, on the whole, I like TNG much better than both VOY and DS9.
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08eafa No.32181
>>31689
Shut the fuck up about Voyager.
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00cc24 No.32185
>>32180
Yes, I know it's easy to do, it's one of the reasons I prefer episodic+some overarching shit to the current binge watch trend. I'm saying the fact that most people would never choose to watch Voyager from start to finish (while they would for DS9 and TNG) is indicative of the series' lower quality overall, despite some standout episodes.
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db0fcb No.32197
Who is that VOY character called Netflix?
>>32132
> claiming that Jesus is a fictional character makes you look like a retarded 14 year old who just started reading his first Dawkins meme.
He is a fictional character by virtue of being painted as something fictitious beyond what the mere mortal really was: an agitator on an ego-trip, inspired by self-destructive middle-Asian ideas.
This is why people talk of the real Jesus (Yeshua) in opposition to the fabrication that Jesus Christ became in the Bible.
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00cc24 No.32200
>>32197
I think I've yet to see a good Torpost on this site.
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fa504f No.32202
>>32185
Oh, I agree 100%. In fact, Voyager is the only series I've watched that I haven't watch the entire series of. I've seen all of TOS, TAS, TNG, and DS9. I haven't seen all of VOY, I'm not particularly interested in watching ENT, even if it has a hot Asian and a Vulcan titty monster, and I have no intention of ever wasting my time on STD, a show almost literally made of AIDS and fail.
>>32200
I saw one of /b2/ a few days ago, but it wasn't good enough to remember what it actually was.
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3b4738 No.32222
Official VOY character tier levels
High: Expies of Data/Spock
Mid: Expies of well-received TNG minor characters
Low: Expies of Lion King characters
Garbage: Personality TBD. Possibly "ethnic"?
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c8520c No.32224
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d46995 No.32234
The Borg were never gimped, they simply let Voyager do its thing as a way of studying humans and Starfleet tactics.
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00cc24 No.32235
>>32234
This would mean that they consider Janeway to be indicative of humans and Starfleet. The implications of that are sure to be very bad, either for the Borg or the Federation.
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46d078 No.33506
VOY is the second worst Trek series, but it has some of the best (and worst) stand alone episodes.
For example The Caretaker is the best pilot by far.
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3ea2d8 No.33507
>>31698
>implying anyone could ever replace Nathan Bridger
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2ca67b No.33508
>>32124
Nah he's right. They assembled and launched the Falcon 1 –the first privately built liquid fueled orbital rocket before the gov gave them any money at all (contacts, subsidies what have you). That's an impressive feat that deserves recognition, and you'd give it if you weren't obviously jealous of someone who has accomplished something. Could you have done that? Or even formed a company and then hired other people to do it for you? Doubtful.
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bb8b21 No.33511
>>33506
Have you not seen Discovery nor Picard?
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920484 No.33514
>>33511
>second worst
Are you implying it should be third worst? That's the only space you could argue for.
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88462e No.33515
>>33514
>>33514
That is my argument, yes.
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dce842 No.33530
>>33515
I was trying to be a good sport by letting Picard finish first. But yeah OK, at this point fuck it.
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bf9fe0 No.33532
Tom Paris is probably one of the better characters in Voyager.
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bb8b21 No.33536
>>33514
I'd argue fourth. Picard, then STD, then ENT, then VOY.
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3ddab1 No.33541
>>33536
>ENT worse than VOY
I like both but ENT is great, whereas VOY relies on a handful of great episodes over a 7 season run. It's not even close for me really.
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6183ba No.33549
>>33541
Years later I'm still pissed that ENT was cancelled to soon. It would have been nice to see Earth and Romulus trying to nuke each other with big warp-capable cruise missiles.
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3ddab1 No.33553
>>33549
>ywn see Shran as a bridge officer on the Enterprise
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5c0fb2 No.33562
>>33549
>Fairly empty star field pans down to Mars
>Caption: Five years after the events of Terra Prime
>Two Romulan Birds of Prey decloak around the disabled NX-01, preparing to finish it off
>A huge fleet of Suliban Cell Ships warp in, half of them engage the Romulans, the other half forms a screen around the Enterprise.
>They hail the Enterprise and tell Archer that if he leaves with them in a cell ship immediately they will protect his ship.
>He reluctantly agrees, but insists that T'Pol come with him.
>The Suliban fly him away as he watches one of the Romulan ships blow up.
>Captain Archer and T'Pol are brought to the mysterious humanoid figure who tells them about the future destruction of Romulus.
>"But we will prevent that from happening", he says as he is revealed to be Captain Jean Luc Picard.
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ffe38d No.33565
>>31689
I used to watch it a lot in my mid-late teens,
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306b7a No.33676
>>31689 Aye. I have never been able to get into DS9, but Voyager was always a favourite, though I grew up on TOS reruns and TNG weekly. I think it would have been a nice twist to see Klingons being hunted for once, by a superior technology, for parts.
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7d8bb1 No.33677 
>>33676
Klingon parts would make them unstoppable.
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664248 No.33698
>>32055
Excuse me… Excuse me, I'd just like to ask a question.
What does God need with a starship?
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