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/strek/ - Star Trek

Discussion about star trek shows, movies, vidya, etc.
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File: ed49bea0902b915⋯.jpg (9.66 KB,236x180,59:45,7fcbed1776a654f89b912feaf6….jpg)

dc2e6c No.25046 [Last50 Posts]

I thought we gonna have a thread like this. Buckle up for my hot takes:

- most of the dialog on ST is really clumsy and I find this to be irksome. While there are certainly good monologs, dual exchanges in ST always feel awkward and awfully infantile. It's like every character is constantly in exposition mode and the audience is never required to pick up on clues.

- Let's be honest, besides very fee exceptions like "The Visitor" most of the non-story episodes of DS9 are a snoozefest and filler. There is also zero exploration despite the station being situated next to a wormhole carrying them to the other end of the galaxy.

- despite being a boring movie, ST:TMP was the most Trekish movie, especially with its aesthetic.

- there is never going to be another "real" Trek series, ever. DS9 and even VOY despite its flaws were the last ones. This is because of the industry. Shows these days are all about "personal drama", superficial core issues, Chinese fortune cookie wisdoms in dialog form, massive pressure to have the ratings after season 1, constant SJW quota fullfullment, fast pace so the consumerist audience doesn't get bored. The only chance ever for another decent Trek series would be a completely independent project, non-profit, with crowdfunding. However, you'd catch Aids nonetheless due to the retarded Trekkie community, which would have the main influence over the show.

- post-First Contact uniforms are the best ones. DS9 would be way more enjoyable from the beginning if Avery Brooks shaved his head and got that uniform from the beginning.

- Also, Avery Brooks is a horrible actor.

- despite being left-liberal in tone, there are plenty of episodes that are quite American with neoconservative undertones. In the Pale Moonlight is basically a justification for a false flag to start a war. Old Klingons resemble the Japanese. ST VI was about the end of the Cold War with the Klangs selling out their own country for a Pizza Hut like Gorbachev.

____________________________
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7350fb No.25047

>>25046

>Avery Brooks is a horrible acto

I really enjoyed DS:9, but I can't quite find it in me to disagree with you there.

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9d9996 No.25048

>>25047

so very true. especially when he got into 'angry black captianz' mode

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d4f3a2 No.25050

File: fb8ed36c9254e7b⋯.png (328.73 KB,954x838,477:419,trek uniforms.png)

>post-First Contact uniforms are the best ones

Nah. TNG uniforms or bust.

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f0d92f No.25051

>>25046

The main cast of DS9, excluding Quark and the the old TNG members, was fucking terrible and had some of the worst interactions with each other. Every other Trek series has had a much stronger main cast - even Voyager, which I hate. That said, the secondary cast was incredible and any episode that doesn't feature them is a mistake.

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16306c No.25052

You know, I always thought the timegap between TOS and TNG was a little too long. Has anyone ever talked about shortening it?

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e5f3d7 No.25053

>>25047

>>25048

>>25046

Are you guys serious? You can barely even tell the rest of the cast is acting, compared to Avery Brooks.

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43275a No.25054

>>25046

>Avery Brooks is a horrible actor

DS9 is my favorite Trek show and I agree, I think it's because he's a stage actor so he tends to overact.

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7350fb No.25055

File: a22df3decad6095⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image,128.67 KB,960x1440,2:3,I need help..jpg)

I'm not posting this to look for judgement. But this is something I know I shouldn't like, and it hurts to watch that show, but … I think I may have a problem.

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7ff98c No.25056

>>25054

Sisko has his moments, but he's the least interesting and engaging character in the show. When he gets to be all shouty and righteous, he can really sell it, but otherwise, anything that wouldn't fit with a Shakespearean monologue makes him look like crap.

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018ea1 No.25057

>>25046

>While there are certainly good monologs, dual exchanges in ST always feel awkward and awfully infantile. It's like every character is constantly in exposition mode and the audience is never required to pick up on clues.

Given how autistic some Trekkies (and I use that intentionally) are, they probably could get subtext unless gave them a fucking dialogue map.

>Let's be honest, besides very fee exceptions like "The Visitor" most of the non-story episodes of DS9 are a snoozefest and filler.

There's other ones like Duet and such obviously, but DS9 on the whole is a bit dull except in a few areas.

>despite being a boring movie, ST:TMP was the most Trekish movie

Agreed.

>there is never going to be another "real" Trek series, ever. DS9 and even VOY despite its flaws were the last ones

I wouldn't go that far but it'll be a good half century before the ship's righted at this rate. I do agree with you that the fans shouldn't run the asylum either.

>post-First Contact uniforms are the best ones. DS9 would be way more enjoyable from the beginning if Avery Brooks shaved his head and got that uniform from the beginning.

The second part of the your statement is correct, but TMP uniforms are best.

>Also, Avery Brooks is a horrible actor.

He's very hammy, but is that worse than being boring? Keep in mind how dry DS9 is otherwise.

>despite being left-liberal in tone, there are plenty of episodes that are quite American with neoconservative undertones

Very much so. The Hunted for example is more or less a direct shot across the bow at leftists treatment of current and ex-Western military personnel…which in large part in my opinion is part of the reason certain sections of the Trek community shit so hard on it, even though it's perfectly watchable (unlike a lot of TNG up until that point).

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d7b721 No.25058

>>25046

>quite American with neoconservative undertones.

If you still haven't learned that neocons are leftists by another name you're far too young to be frequenting an image board.

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018ea1 No.25059

My list of observations

1. Voyager was watchable until Seven of Nine popped on board. Not that she ruined it at all by herself, around that time episodes just seemed to become more and more "throw shit against the wall and see of it sticks" than it had been. Prime example is The Rock appearing to beat the crap out of people.

2. TNG Season One was actually comparatively decent, when measured up against TNG Season Two.

3. First Contact was hot garbage, there are no good TNG movies and they should have stopped at Undiscovered Country.

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ef0a2f No.25060

File: 69bdccdb58b6e83⋯.gif (269.07 KB,234x249,78:83,das it mane.gif)

>>25047

How can you not love his overacting? It's always great to see.

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72360d No.25061

>>25059

Seven-of-Nine was fine but the Borg Queen was a mistake

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72360d No.25062

If the premise of The Undiscovered Country was "what if the wall went down in space", then clearly the Romulans should've been in there as there was never a neutral zone between in Federation and the Klingons in TOS.

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c501f8 No.25065

File: 2583003255031d1⋯.jpg (355.43 KB,1064x595,152:85,gene-cheers.jpg)

>>25046

>post-First Contact uniforms are the best ones

2nd best after WoK is what you meant. What's holding them back is what holds back pretty much every TNG and later uniform: they lack belts and the boots are not bloused.

>>25050

This chart also fucks up the WoK uniform by not showing the bloused boots. The brilliance of the First Contact era uniforms are that they return to the jacket-over-turtleneck design, which to be honest is the best design and represents a common lineage all the way back to The Cage but the producers always go back to pajama uniforms - particularly with a new show - for some retarded reason. OBrien should have always worn that jumpsuit style with the rolled-up sleaves though. That uniform was meant for NCO's and plasma monkeys.

>>25052

>You know, I always thought the timegap between TOS and TNG was a little too long. Has anyone ever talked about shortening it?

Maybe, but that sounds too radical in its reasonableness and simplicity. To be fair this is a thread for unpopular opinions, not amazing opinions that pretty much everybody would naturally agree with, all other things being equal.

However, it obviously deserves to be promoted for its elegent solution to the vexing problems of Star Trek canon. It really needs a thread, tbh. I think i'll go marathon TNG and note every shitty scene with a lame admiral (usually female) and replace them in my mind with a William Shatner as Kirk cameo… and the amazing dialogue possibilities… and the sarcastic quips as only Bill could deliver them - as all he wants is to get back in the captain's chair…

>>25059

>First Contact was hot garbage, there are no good TNG movies and they should have stopped at Undiscovered Country.

Yeah, they were all shit. If we eliminate the timeskip (since it's clearly a winning idea), Star Trek V and VI become cross-over films, to a greater or lesser extent - and if you go back and retcon ST3 so that they take a freighter to Genesis instead of stealing the Enterprise, and it gets decomissioned instead of destroyed, then Sybok can steal it for Star Trek V instead, while TNG is happening elsewhere… Undiscovered Country becomes an Excelsior film basically (an easy swap) with cameos from TNG. These are uncontroversial and reasonable canon simplifications, so forgive me if the thread gets derailed by all the messages of support and encouragement for obviously good ideas that are instant /strek/ favorites.

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307932 No.25066

>>25047

>>25054

>>25056

>>25060

Interesting to see these takes about Brooks. I always thought his speech patterns and overacting are better for the stage than for the camera (especially in a close up), whether or not he really is a bad actor might be open for debate, but even if he is, it's correct to say that he just fits into the role nicely and especially later on, when the writers learned to actually do things with the characters, they were able to write beautifully for Brooks, episodes like For The Uniform were practically made for him. Similar with Shatner, while not being the greatest actor, he fits the part as Kirk and also as Danny Crane later on. This is actually true for most Star Trek actors, they fit their roles in often even iconic ways but are chronically unsuccessful outside the genre, with exceptions like Stewart or Alexander Siddig, who made it into Kingdom of Heavens, Da Vinci's Demons, Game of Thrones, etc.

I actually just realized that with the exception of Bakula all Star Trek captains came primarily from the stage.

>>25052

Fucking this. It's not really an unpopular opinion tho. The long time gap was pure autism on Roddenberry's part, I mean, they knew they would HAVE TO bring back some of the old guard, so now they have to introduce all the bullshit like Scotty being caught in a transporter buffer etc. - and it's also not like the technology took a huge leap either. Replicators and Holodecks were really the only new inventions (and both could have easily already existed in Kirk's time, we just never hear about it - and if I remember correctly, they never talk about these things being new in TNG). Even the weapon systems stayed exactly the same.

>>25058

Oh Ferengi poster, is there a rule of acquisition about bait I don't know about?

>>25065

First Contact was a good action movie, but it sucked as a ST movie. Riker, Geordi and Troy are basically taken out of all the action, and this is completely unecessary. You only need one guy, preferably Geordi to get involved with Cochrane, the rest should dive into the Borg action. I bet the actors must be frustrated to have that part while Worf especially gets his most epic lines ever.

And yeah, everybody hates the Borg Queen for a reason. I mean, there /could/ be an interesting bee queen concept, but they just went with a generic Hollywood villan who acts all mysterious but is in the end really just the basic bitch leader of the Borg - which ruins the entire concept. I don't get why Seven gets hate tho. They didn't do the best things with the character and focused too hard on her fuckability, but one can not deny that the VOY cast improved a lot once Seven joined. IMO, season 4 & 5 are the best seasons of Voyager. Season 4, I would even dare saying, is consistently good.

Oh and one last thing I think as technically being a TNG movie, ST: Generations is a bit underrated. It's a cool Sci-Fi adventure with a good pace. I don't get why people dislike it so much. It didn't try hard like the other TNG movies, it just tried to be entertaining which seemed like a good recipe.

The only thing about Generations that bothers me is that Kirk looks already so much like a bloated alcoholic.

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d7b721 No.25069

>>25065

>2nd best after WoK is what you meant. What's holding them back is what holds back pretty much every TNG and later uniform: they lack belts and the boots are not bloused.

Theoretical best uniforms are post-FC uniforms with the belts and shit from Yesterday's Enterprise, that's how I kitted out my STO character back when I played.

>>25065

>>25066 (checked)

>timeskip

I was just avin a giggle over that one autist who harped on about this a while back, but if that's how you swing that's fine I suppose. Don't particularly care one way or the other myself.

Incidentally, how is neocons being DINOs bait? Thought that was common knowledge by this point.

>Oh and one last thing I think as technically being a TNG movie, ST: Generations is a bit underrated. It's a cool Sci-Fi adventure with a good pace. I don't get why people dislike it so much. It didn't try hard like the other TNG movies, it just tried to be entertaining which seemed like a good recipe.

I think the problem with Generations isn't so much that it's bad, but that plot-wise it was just a higher budget TNG two-parter. It didn't really realize the potential of the big screen the way the TOS-era movies did–TMP suffered from this problem as well.

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a8a5c7 No.25070

I liked Generations and First Contact. Nemesis and Insurrection are the shitshows. I'm not sure which one I hate more. I used to say Nemesis, but I rewatched Insurrection a couple days ago and now I'm not sure. Insurrection has waaaaaay too much comic relief. Sometimes I felt like I was watching a bad trek comedy.

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70680d No.25072

Love for Sisko always seemed like people overcompensating because he was black. I thought he was okay but forgettable. DS9 is basically the same.

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70680d No.25073

>>25066

>First Contact was a good action movie, but it sucked as a ST movie. Riker, Geordi and Troy are basically taken out of all the action, and this is completely unecessary.

Frakes directed which is why he isn’t in a lot of scenes.

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aebff7 No.25075

File: 693b7a8f58df535⋯.jpg (12.36 KB,480x360,4:3,hqdefault.jpg)

>>25066

>Troy

>>25069

a consolidated trek universe with a merged timeline would be an interesting experiment for secondary media like novels, comics, vidya, etc but it really only works in theory because it would essentially be an iteration on the tng we already have… another bite of the apple, so to speak. There's just no way to know how it would have played out if it had originally been created that way, though. As a recurring guest star, Shatner's ego may have consumed the entire show….

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a8ef42 No.25076

>>25075

> Shatner's ego may have consumed the entire show….

>implying that's a bad thing

Verbal sparring between Kirk and Picard would have been the shit to watch. Can you imagine a monologue-off between the two? If Kirk was an admiral it would have been an interesting subversion, too, because he would have been the seat-of-his-pants maverick, while Picard is the by-the-book autist (whereas usually the dynamic is the other way around).

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be2f2f No.25077

File: 9271c43b9f325b3⋯.png (360.33 KB,900x532,225:133,Terran Empire.png)

>>25055

As shit as STD is, even it cannot taint the grand aesthetic and glory of the Terran Empire.

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d7b721 No.25078

File: a90e3398dcf4300⋯.png (1.28 MB,1280x720,16:9,ClipboardImage.png)

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09ccd6 No.25083

>>25075

Rozdower…

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e60179 No.25085

>>25078

The fat girl looks like she's packing barbeque sauce in her holster.

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20861a No.25090

Here's an actual unpolular opinion: Picard is the worst captain from a command point of view. Out of all the captains, Picard is the one I'd least like to serve under.

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16306c No.25091

File: 8810a2deed9e114⋯.gif (940.08 KB,627x502,627:502,desire to know more.gif)

>>25090

Care to elaborate on that?

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b994cb No.25093

>>25090

agreed. I'd also like to add to that that Sisko is the best

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d5a3ba No.25095

>>25090

>Picard is the worst captain from a command point of view.

Picard, or Riker barking out for him, would have raised the shields when the Reliant didn't respond to hails. Kick and Spock almost got the entire shipped killed for not following established fleet protocols. In reality they should have both been court-martialed and booted from Starfleet, if Spock lived in the end.

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307932 No.25097

>>25090

>>25091

>>25095

Each of them has their strengths and weaknesses. Kirk is an explorer and improviser, Picard is a by-the-book guy and diplomat, Sisko is a military commander and Janeway… well, I guess Janeway showed talent to make a good crew out of a rag tag mix of Starfleet, Delta Quadrant guys and Marquis.

Actually I think I would have preferred to serve under Picard. It might be the most boring, but also has the highest chance for me to end up alive by the end of the mission.

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307932 No.25098

>>25095

Honestly I don't give a shit about that too much. The battle of the Mutara Sector is the best space battle of all time, and if it requires to make Kirk forget Star Fleet protocol for it to go down like this, I gladly swallow that pill. It's one of the few scenes where logical inconsistencies can be ignored because of the end product.

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152048 No.25100

>>25046

I only ever played the ST games, never seen a series but I believe that gives me an appreciation for ST and I can see how Jar-Jar screwed it up with his movies and lens-flare.

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153f07 No.25102

File: b4863ed8ddaadb0⋯.jpg (81.53 KB,736x976,46:61,kirk-swole-klingon-waifu.jpg)

>>25076

I was thinking more of his ego and the production side, but then again i'd imagine he'd have gotten a lot of deference at that point. It would be impossible to get too much William Shatner as a recurring guest, though, and I suspect i'd would have been easy for them to write for him as well.

Most interactions could be easy to figure out.. even the other recurring characters like Guinan and Q… I wonder about Kirk+Riker, though… Riker is basically Decker w/ moderate chronic depression minus the "you're in my chair" power struggle. I suppose the writers could just as easily have them ignore each other for the most part.

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22531d No.25105

File: cee9fe400eb309b⋯.jpg (44.05 KB,640x480,4:3,TAS.jpg)

TAS is infinitely better than TOS. Despite the limitations of the animation and small cast, the stories are more interesting, the episode length is better and there is far more world-building and input from alien races.

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d5a3ba No.25106

>>25105

>TAS is infinitely better than TOS

Just recently started, only two episodes in, but I agree, was really surprised by the Trekkiness of it all, was expecting a kid's show, but it's anything but… so far.

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06d1e8 No.25146

>>25062

Except there was. The Organian-imposed treaty created the Klingon Neutral Zone.

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1b4ffe No.25155

>>25105

>TAS > TOS

Maybe.

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b70b8b No.25170

>>25078

who's the fat chick?

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a8a5c7 No.25184

>>25170

your mom

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2a087d No.25194

>>25097

Janeway had nothing to do with making her crew "good".

In fact she sowed discord and contempt between both factions of her crew through the entire show, often abandoning her own post and showing weakness in front of them in the form of being an overly demanding hypocrite who can't follow her own rules as she punished people harshly for doing things she would of done herself and HAS done herself when put in their position.

You're not wrong about picard though, least deaths by any captain.

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a29404 No.25252

>>25194

>In fact she sowed discord and contempt between both factions of her crew through the entire show, often abandoning her own post and showing weakness in front of them in the form of being an overly demanding hypocrite who can't follow her own rules as she punished people harshly for doing things she would of done herself and HAS done herself when put in their position.

every woman in a leadership position throughout history

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9a293f No.25260

>>25046

- TNG is 90% filler, you don't realise this until you sit down and rewatch it. The great episodes are amazing but the bulk of it is forgettable and that's a worse crime than Voyager often being unwatchably bad.

- Enterprise S1 and the first few episodes of S2 are for the most part competent Trek, beating out the average early season of TNG or any given season of VOY for average quality.

- The Temporal Cold War plotline is actually not a bad concept if you go in with the knowledge the mysterious future man is Archer trying to fix his mistake and remove the Federation

- Ezri was better than Jadzia by dint of not being such a mary sue or a slut and by being played by an actually competent actress.

- ST III is a fine film and was as good as we could have hoped for given that it had to retcon Spock's death for marketability reasons. The whole even-odd rule is a meme and not a very good one.

- Shatner isn't a bad actor just very much of his time. Kirk wouldn't be believable played by anyone more subtle.

- TNG's writers let Picard get away with things far too easily: compared to Kirk and Sisko either side of him he more often gets to escape a situation with a dramatic speech, bit of fancy negotiation or technobabble solution which has no consequences.

- Cardassian Kira is more attractive than Bajoran Kira.

>- Also, Avery Brooks is a horrible actor.

Not sure I'd go as far as horrible but yes he's not great.

>>25059

>3. First Contact was hot garbage, there are no good TNG movies and they should have stopped at Undiscovered Country.

First Contact is a watchable and enjoyable film in its own right i.e. if you pretend it isn't Trek but a terrible Trek film. It is useful for 'converting' reluctant newfags though. Also the nigress is too involved in the plot for no good reason other than diversity points.

>>25090

Janeway is worse but yes, Picard has a habit of picking the most childish 'good' option in any given situation with author fiat resulting in it still working out. He's the type of retard to put his entire ship in danger to rescue one crewmember to avoid the moral responsibility of making the correct choice.

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d7b721 No.25263

I find Lwaxana Troi an amusing, and entertaining character. Episodes featuring her making someone squirm have a kind of schaudenfraude appeal to me.

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d72bc8 No.25268

>>25263

I thought she was decent gilf materiel <tng> as well a fun and surprisingly deep character

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6e1f15 No.25269

>>25263

>>25268

Just rewatched the episode of TNG where she's trying to prevent some Ayy scientist from having his 'resolution' basically Logan's Run but at 50 rather than 30. The way she was acting in that episode had me wishing that Q would appear out of nowhere to throw her into the nearest sun or something equally permanent. I'm not sure if it's the actress or the character, but something about her just pisses me off to the nth degree. When she starts her 'holder of the sacred whojamawhatsits' speech I just grit my teeth and hope that one day they make an episode with the character getting punched repeatedly in the face

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d7b721 No.25270

>>25269

Agreed, preachy shit like that isn't endearing. In those episodes where her purpose is to make Picard/Odo uncomfortable, however, it's another matter.

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6e1f15 No.25271

>>25270

You're a better man than me if you can forgive her for so little comic relief.

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d7b721 No.25274

>>25271

There's a good reason I posted this in the "unpopular opinions" thread.

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00612f No.25275

>>25263

Dark Page is a good episode… season 7 TNG is better than it's usually given credit for, even the absolutely retarded episodes are well executed

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a29404 No.25277

>>25274

Your opinion is correct. Lwaxana Troi is supposed to be annoying. That's the entire purpose of Lwaxana Troi.

>>25269

Fuck you that was a good episode.

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9a293f No.25278

>>25263

She was a lot better in DS9 than in TNG to be fair, though I can't watch that episode where she steals her husband's child nowadays without seeing the early SJW tendancies in it.

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307932 No.25294

>>25260

>TNG is 90% filler, you don't realise this until you sit down and rewatch it.

Agreed. TNG is a hit or miss.

>Enterprise S1 and the first few episodes of S2 are for the most part competent Trek

Interesting opinion and I agree. I never understood why people think S3 are S4 were good. The Xindi storyline was boring as shit. The best thing about them was to see Weyoun as an angry Andorian. S1 and S2 have good episodes like Terra Nova or Resurrection.

>The Temporal Cold War plotline is actually not a bad concept if you go in with the knowledge the mysterious future man is Archer trying to fix his mistake and remove the Federation

I never liked it because time travel being such a beaten concept already. We didn't actually get to see the factions and tech from the 29th century besides the Spherebuilders.

>Ezri was better than Jadzia by dint of not being such a mary sue or a slut

Ezri had integrity, Jadzia was a slut, correct take.

>ST III is a fine film

It's great popcorn kino, no idea why people dislike it, it's amazing and offers everything you want from Trek on the big screen. And yeah, Spock was a marketing gag so just turn off the movie once Kruge is dead.

>TNG's writers let Picard get away with things far too easily

tbh, aside from the Borg (and he botched that one) he was up against way less threatening opponents than Sisko or Kirk (oh, look at this menacing sneaky ambassador!). In the TNG movies, he does a lot of more badassery, too bad the movies were bad.

>Cardassian Kira is more attractive than Bajoran Kira.

One word: Jawline. Kira has no jawline and the Cardassian make up gave her that.

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617202 No.25297

File: f616c4db16d8299⋯.png (49.1 KB,500x600,5:6,my-god-bones.png)

>>25294

>no idea why people dislike ST III

It spoiled itself. It's literally called "Search for Spork" so you know Spork is not gone and will be found by the end, pretty much. Also, they utterly spoiled the destruction of the Enterprise in either the trailer or promotional stills, I don't remember which, but that single plot twist was supposed to be like a Red Wedding -tier happening and they fucked it up. The entire film was green-lit based on the switcheroo of bring back Spock but kill the ship, and they fucked it up on both fronts, rendering the entire film perfunctory.

From that point, it's just like one of those things with nerds that once you lose suspension of disbelief you start noticing all the other flaws… the budget and effects, fat actress getting recast, who the fuck is this villain (he wasn't Do'och Brown yet), etc.

it's mostly a meme at this point, because of muh odd-numbered Trek films, but at the time it was a real shit-show coming off of Wrath of Khan at the sentiment stuck. As part of an impromptu trilogy, it's a decent middle, though i quibble with certain points (like destroying the ship).

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9a293f No.25311

File: 09de2a07d72d1b6⋯.jpg (35.44 KB,399x300,133:100,cardassian_kira.jpg)

>>25294

I was expecting more disagreement.

>Interesting opinion and I agree. I never understood why people think S3 are S4 were good. The Xindi storyline was boring as shit.

S3 is just 24 in space, fucking terrible. I liked S4 though just not as much as everyone else seemed to because it seemed too reliant on throwbacks.

>The best thing about them was to see Weyoun as an angry Andorian. S1

Weyoun and Phlox are easily the best characters and mostly carried by their actors.

>It's great popcorn kino, no idea why people dislike it

In part there's received wisdom that all the odd-numbered films are bad, something that started out as a bit of a joke and is now considered accurate.

>>25297

This makes a lot of sense, the trailer spoiling the destruction of the Enterprise in particular.

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9a293f No.25312

>>25294

>>25311

By Weyoun I meant Shran, of course.

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d7b721 No.25313

>>25294

>>25311

One reason I like S3 of ENT I actually didn't mind the series as a whole, but I can understand why some people hate it is that it's a glimpse of what Voyager done right could have been. The ship gets progressively more scarred as time goes on, the crew need to wheel and deal to get supplies they need, and the situation is rightly portrayed as desperate–they even resort to stealing at one point to get a warp coil. When they lose blueshirts it's not just swept under the rug, but serves to add the tension, I believe even Reed points out that their attrition rate is beyond what most militaries would consider acceptable losses.

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023169 No.25376

>>25046

Enterprise would have ended up the best Star Trek series if it got 7 seasons and led into a couple of direct to dvd movies about the Earth Romulan War.

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e44ad9 No.25407

>>25311

>In part there's received wisdom that all the odd-numbered films are bad, something that started out as a bit of a joke and is now considered accurate.

What about Nemesis then - it's number 10 and everyone seems to hate it. Personally I think it was an average movie with excellent philosophical value, the idea that a clone/twin could turn out so vastly different because of upbringing is really fascinating. I think it really opens up the nature/nurture debate. It's interesting to think how alternative versions of yourself could turn out.

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9a293f No.25413

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>25407

>What about Nemesis then - it's number 10 and everyone seems to hate it.

Attempts to fix it by counting Galaxy Quest I think?

>Personally I think it was an average movie with excellent philosophical value, the idea that a clone/twin could turn out so vastly different because of upbringing is really fascinating. I think it really opens up the nature/nurture debate. It's interesting to think how alternative versions of yourself could turn out.

It's a good concept but the execution lacks yes. Reminder this screentest was better than the final film.

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4a6d6d No.25438

>>25413

Why doesn't he wear the mask?

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db4edf No.25586

File: 698466aeb4730d3⋯.png (Spoiler Image,6.71 KB,363x92,363:92,commie.png)

This is the best opinions yet

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9a293f No.25931

>>25586

>commie garbage

True mostly of TNG, VOY and some parts of ENT. TOS and DS9 are about as far from commie read collectivist which applies to a lot more ideologies than just communism as you can get

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78c6f2 No.25948

>>25931

>DS9

>far from commie

it's as jewish as a show could get

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8d6954 No.25983

>>25948

For a Cardassian Flag LARPer you sure have not swallow the Gul Pill.

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78c6f2 No.25994

>>25983

they made it into space communism vs space fascism with space jews caught up inbetween

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a6f00c No.26055

>>25263

>I find Lwaxana Troi an amusing, and entertaining character. Episodes featuring her making someone squirm have a kind of schaudenfraude appeal to me.

If nothing else, she provided one of the funniest moments in TNG: Picard peeking around a corner at the start of "Half a Life"

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adc05a No.27019

>>25294

>hot Cardassian kira

Jawline fixed

Eye ridges accent Nina's doe eyes better.

Hair isn't in short bitch mode.

Darker makeup is kind of sexy

Nose doesn't look like an accordion

Nose is visually narrowed instead of widened by prosthetic.

I hate bajoran noses.

Spoonhead master race.

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1b4ffe No.27024

>>25051

That's why it was good.

TNG is the crew you want to serve on, but they are not interesting.

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1b4ffe No.27025

Star Trek V was a great movie.

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bf293e No.27031

I like both Nemesis (the film) and These Are the Voyages. There's my unpopular opinions.

>>25072

Completely agree there. When you see faggots on places like TrekBBS repeating ad nauseum that 'Sisko's a badass' it's the most pathetic spectacle ever. Ditto Chuck Sonnenberg's 'The Sisko and his motherfucking pimphand' cancer. Absolute flids.

>>25275

Agreed that season 7 TNG has a decent hitrate. I know a lot of the Geordi's mum type stuff is a snore, but it's cancelled out by entertaining fare. Also, Masks is based.

>>25294

Also agree on Cardie Kira, but she wasn't attractive at all with the dyke cut and I think that's the main issue.

>>25376

I can see this being true as well.

>>27025

Absolutely. Best Trek film, only Undiscovered Country rivals it. I forget this is controversial tbh. Generations is also great I think, best TNG film.

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5f6efc No.27032

>>27030

don't remember much of that in England.

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abcff8 No.27063

>>27032

Yeah but it's England. Weather is so drab that days blur into each other until you can't recall if you had blood pudding for breakfast yesterday, or ten years ago.

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bf293e No.27065

>>27063

I find that to be an absurd caricature.

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5f6efc No.27066

>>27063

pretty much. that and the gulf war around the same time.

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893e65 No.27073

>>27065

As befits Bongistan, an absurd caricature of a functioning country.

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cf40d7 No.27087

>>27073

I feel like it was a real country once, but the British are all too polite to tell their politicans they are ruining it.

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240342 No.27089

File: 9037e4b5fa0ebef⋯.jpg (157.21 KB,1200x1200,1:1,Britain_should_apologise_.….jpg)

>>27087

Politeness and elegance have never before come at the expense of will; the Brits certainly haven't let it stop them in the past. There are (((other))) factors at play here.

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05f6b9 No.27142

File: d61a2488d81f25e⋯.jpeg (7.79 KB,225x225,1:1,images.jpeg)

>>25994

>space jews

You're thinking of the wrong species: ST is full of red herrings. Here are some hints

>fanatically ethnocentric

>think they deserve to rule the galaxy

>rule from the shadows

>blend in and subvert other nations

>use other races as soldiers in their wars

>are prone to genetic diseases

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93562f No.27145

>>27142

You forgot

>whenever questioned on their right to rule, try to guilt you with OY VEY, MUH 6 TRILLION LITERS

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7ecc6a No.27170

>>27142

I wasn't talking about liquid peoples.

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cc306a No.27173

>>27142

You realize it's allowable for there to be two species representing jews in the series? Ferengi are the caricature of corporatist jews who pretend to care about freedom when they really want to have their child slaves making nukes. Changelings are the political cryptokike stereotype, internationalist and with massive invisible empires, with an army of American golems to die for them.

Just like Romulans and Klingons in the original series both represented evil eurasian commie hordes. Klingons represented barbarian warmen (slavs) and Romulans represented emotionless bee people (chinks), but both were pretty clearly designed to scare people about commies.

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1b4ffe No.27175

>>27089

Did the Chinese tell you this?

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cf40d7 No.27180

>>27173

Klingons were Mongolian-based and Romulans were Roman-based.

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cc306a No.27181

>>27180

Yes because the main topics of discussion in 1960s America and the main threats to the nation were medieval horse archers and nugreeks.

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7ecc6a No.27182

>>27181

you realize Gene Roddenberry was a communist. right.

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408198 No.27183

>>27182

He was a utopian socialist, sure, but he wasn't full Bolshevik. Looking at some episodes of TOS you can see he didn't like the commies because muh freedoms, muh nuclear war. Basically he was a hippy.

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7ecc6a No.27204

>>27183

absolutely but hippies were the tool of the down fall of western society.

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4ed040 No.27205

>>27181

if it wasn't, it should have been. can't be too prepared when dealing with mongols.

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e44ad9 No.27302

All Trek has good & bad episodes even Voyager.

Voyager had plenty of good episodes such as Deathwish, Living Witness, Tuvix, Riddles, Future's End, Scorpion, The Killing Game, Year of Hell, Equinox, Think Tank, Dark Frontier, Blink of An Eye, Flesh and Blood, Repentance, Q2, and Author, Author.

Year of Hell should have been a movie.

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1b4ffe No.27303

>>27302

I think that VOY has the best and worst episodes. It's makes the series average out to being the third best because the good episodes in other series are much better than their worst ones whereas all VOY's bests are counterbalanced by ones that are terrible to the same magnitude.

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b50afd No.27313

>>27303

VOY isn't really that different from TNG. It's the same concept, a ship that explores and meets other cultures (VOY never explored the whole "cut off from the Alpha Quadrant" dilemma), and even the main villians are the same (Borg). VOY was very conservative, they played it safe, unlike DS9 which has its own problems but at least had balls into doing stuff the other Trek shows never did (until STD, but not in a good way).

Both shows have few really, really good episodes but mostly filler and a few really, really bad ones. I still don't get the hate for VOY, it isn't different from TNG or even TOS in its conception, explores ethical subjects more nuanced (instead of the hammy, low-brow way they did it in TNG), and has a better set design. The only reason TNG is regarded as better is because they were the lucky ones to introduce all the things people loved about Trek that weren't in TOS and the movies.

If you want me to name the quantity of great episodes, I'd actually name more in VOY than in TNG. I'd dare anybody to make an argument why TNG is better than VOY. It really isn't. The only argument you could make is that you'd like some of the actors more.

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b50afd No.27314

>>27180

The Romulans are based on the Chinese more than they are based on the Romans. They only took the names from the Romans, like "Romulus" or "Senate", but their entire culture is a bizarre propaganda image of what Westerners think of Chinese society.

Klingons are clearly Japanese in WWII, I don't know how anybody can't see that.

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ad8a00 No.27315

>>27314

>Klingons are clearly Japanese in WWII, I don't know how anybody can't see that.

Some people are just dumb.

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885835 No.27587

File: 03910ba8bdbbcd8⋯.jpg (183.41 KB,550x512,275:256,Dix.jpg)

>>25260

>- TNG is 90% filler, you don't realise this until you sit down and rewatch it.

Concept of filler isn't relevant at all with TNG. Show was episodic and there were only limited continuing story elements.

>- Enterprise S1 and the first few episodes of S2 are for the most part competent Trek, beating out the average early season of TNG or any given season of VOY for average quality.

Word you are looking for might be competently done mediocrity for most parts.

>- The Temporal Cold War plotline is actually not a bad concept if you go in with the knowledge the mysterious future man is Archer trying to fix his mistake and remove the Federation

Temporal Cold War undermined everything about ENT being prequel.

>- ST III is a fine film and was as good as we could have hoped for given that it had to retcon Spock's death for marketability reasons. The whole even-odd rule is a meme and not a very good one.

Spocks death double dip by all means. If TWOK failed to make enough money to warrant another sequel, Trek would end in very emotional way. If there would be another sequel, it freed Nimoy to direct and gave 'em instant main plot. It isn't retcon if it is planned. Nimoy had started to focus his career for directing in late 70's

>- Shatner isn't a bad actor just very much of his time. Kirk wouldn't be believable played by anyone more subtle.

How is this supposed to be unpopular opinion?

>>25294

>I never understood why people think S3 are S4 were good

S3 and S4 remain very much in tone with classic Trek and add properly done long format story telling to the mix in right amount. Season 4 is in my opinion the best season in all of Trek, two or three part episodes that make up 4th season is perfect balance between continuing story and episodic episodes.

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e44ad9 No.27611

Sub Rosa isn't as bad as everyone says it is, it's a 4/10 episode. Seriously, can someone explain to me why it's so universally hated?

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240342 No.27612

>>27611

Why exactly are you distinguishing between "4/10" and "universally hated?"

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3bed7b No.27615

>>27611

It's fucking retarded. A Scottish ghost puts a fog on the enterprise.

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f87b46 No.27617

>>27611

>It's a Crusher episode

>It's heavy with sexuality

>Barely any of the regular cast appear

>Crusher confirms she got off reading her grandma's stories of getting boned by a ghost

>Crusher is just okay with boning her grandma's old lover despite how weird or awkward that should be

>The villain's entire plan is to bone the women in Crusher's family to keep himself alive

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d3d91e No.27620

>>27611

>>27612

>>27615

>>27617

Is there a porn paradoy of this episode btw?

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4f9c20 No.27624

>>27617

>No one thought this whole fucking situation was weird until Crusher decided to resign from the enterprise.

seriously, if seemed like if he could have safely left the planet the crew would have just let her keep fucking a ghost without saying a word about it

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d39398 No.27625

>>27620

That episode is the porn parody, anon.

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aa09b8 No.27749

>>27624

Why would they say anything? Geordie fucked holodeck ho's, you know Barclay did too. Not much different to a ghost.

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d62943 No.27750

Thomas Riker is too well adjusted after 8 years of solitude in the station. They should have portrayed him more like a neet/hikki.

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5f8714 No.27755

>>27750

>Thomas Riker is too well adjusted after 8 years of solitude in the station. They should have portrayed him more like a neet/hikki.

It was a lazy character. Why couldn't they have just filmed his episodes/scenes last during the season and have Frakes shave his beard?

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d62943 No.27756

>>27755

Yeah that would have been more convincing. Intersting tidbit: The original plan was to kill off Will Riker, make Data 1st officer and have Thomas riker join a lieutenant.

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24fbf1 No.27758

>>27756

Wouldn't that chick from BoBW be 1st Officer?

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1d5634 No.27918

>>27750

I think he should have been addicted to anime and retire to become a true neet.

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405e5f No.29252

Unpopular Opinion, mine alone: STTNG is actually what a spaceship crew would be like if it was actually an extended family that had hidden incest secrets. Nobody seems comfortable around each other.

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fc73fa No.29255

>>25065

>bloused boots

bloused boots or even just boots worn over the pants leg are just dumb for a crew that spend all day just walking around on space ship decks. They're alright for away missions I suppose, but then the rest of the WoK outfits look far too dressy for away missions in general. Star fleet needs some sort of more utilitarian BDU type of garb for when they leave the ship

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ee5356 No.29331

>>29252

Wasn't the thing anon picked up on in early TNG that it was heavily hinted that Picard might be Wesleys true father?

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79880e No.29345

>>29331

It does feel like that's the sole reason Crusher keeps pushing Wesley and Picard to interact. Like she's trying to get them to make some sort of bond first before she finally drops the "he's your real father" bomb.

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bdc9ea No.29351

>>29345

That or she's desperate for some Captain's log.

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1c5646 No.29410

The Borg Queen was a mistake and destroyed all fascination in the race. When Picard was hailed by the Borg and no one showed up on screen, but a gigantic open space with intense light shining in the back, you knew this foe was as inhuman as facing technology itself.

Also the resolution of The Best of Both Worlds 2 was gimmicky and half-baked. The Borg were built up a little too well in part 1, to go down with just a simple plan. Nowadays that two parter would warrant an entire series.

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7781e7 No.29411

>>29410

This thread is for unpopular opinions, anon. Not self-evident truths.

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84368c No.29412

File: 668c51734c6db13⋯.jpg (45.71 KB,600x652,150:163,cool wine aunt.jpg)

>>29345

>not just a gold digging single mother with a keen eye for beta providers

Anon, I…

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1c5646 No.29413

>>29411

Trekkies usually react autistically and reply the Borg Queen is exactly the same as the collective. Hence, the scenic effect is too.

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19719c No.29414

>>27749

People talked to Barclay about it and Jeordi recognized it was a bad idea.

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785a2e No.29419

>>25046

Here's mine.

TNG is overrated and its first season is as bad and as preachy as Discovery and nu-Trek. Its also a disgrace to TOS. DS9 however feels like a far better successor to TOS, only ruined by Sisko being so boring.

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ea2896 No.29427

>>25075

>a consolidated trek universe with a merged timeline would be an interesting experiment

Think big, anon. If we have to try the thought experiment, be extreme.

1. All ships and crews coexist in the TNG era.

2. Storylines are kept separate, but occasional cameos do happen.

3. Every season happens at the same time. Each series is aware of the events happening cross franchise.

4. Movies happen between seasons.

5. TOS ship is from a group of non-federation human colonies, closer to classic Earth nations.

6. ENT ship is from a species who had first contact with the federation only a short time back.

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53c13a No.29451

>>29419

TNG season 1 and 2 to an extent is TOS though.

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240342 No.30495

>>29419

>TNG is overrated and its first season is as bad and as preachy as Discovery and nu-Trek

Extend that to S2 TNG, and that's a pretty common opinion around here.

Here's one of mine: If you try very, very, very, very, hard to forget what a massive space-slut Dax is, she and Worf make a good couple.

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ab024c No.30496

>>25046

>Old Klingons resemble the Japanese

>>27314

>>27315

>Klingons are clearly Japanese in WWII, I don't know how anybody can't see that.

They're Mongols you blithering retards.

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eb14cf No.30501

>>30496

Mongols don't obsess about MUH HONORUBRU to the same autistic degree. Nor are they closely associated with an impractical curved sword, whose fanboys insist it's far deadlier than evidence would suggest. Further, the Mongols were not enemies in the previous generation who became close allies in the wake of a massive disaster.

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1e0c71 No.30505

>>27313

This shouldn't even be a controversial opinion. Sure people can argue that the cast was better than TNG, but I don't think it is. Sure, Mulgrew is no Stewart, but I dare anybody to compare the rest. The Doctor and Seven are better than Data, because Data is extremely one-dimensional, which is why Spiner grew tired of him so quickly. Wesley is a catastrophe, Dr. Crusher is boring, and I don't see the difference between Torres and LaForge, the latter is a by-the-book snoozefest and Torres at least has passion. Admittedly, Tuvok is a bit of a vanilla Vulcan, and Paris is a Riker stand-in, but all in all, I just don't see how the Voyager crew is worse than the TNG crew.

I can name more great VOY episodes than TNG episodes. Many say the best TNG episodes are greater because of the emotional impact, but they really are just Patrick Stewart one-man-shows (The Inner Light, Chain of Command), etc. - there isn't a great TNG episode that isn't based on Stewart acting out the classics.

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1e0c71 No.30506

>>30505

cast was better in TNG*

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d5a73f No.30508

>>30501

The old Klingons didn't have impractical curved swords or an obsession with honor, and wouldn't become allies for decades. That all came later.

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d7d998 No.30511

I think the idea of Ezri wearing diapers is /cute/ and should be explored in further detail.

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2f0894 No.30521

>>27313

>>30505

Worst captain, worst first officer. The peripheral breakout characters salvaged the show to the degree it was salvageable.

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240342 No.30525

>>30508

Yes, and "later" was when Klingon culture was really fleshed out and explained in any detail, compared to TOS, where they were just antagonists. So, while they didn't start out as Japs, all of the worldbuilding of consequence has said that they are Japs.

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1e0c71 No.30527

>>30521

I don't know what's wrong with Chakotey. He isn't much different from Riker really. It's just that TOS has set the bar so high with Spock that all the other first officers afterwards weren't all that great. One of the reasons why ENT went with a Vulcan again, imo.

Plus, Janeway still beats Archer. She has her moments. The reason she's regarded as bad is because of her sometimes psychopathic or frankly erratic decisions.

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1e0c71 No.30528

>>30525

Klingon worldbuilding started with the TOS movies though. Search for Spock was the movie that really introduced them, and TMP introduced their famous make-up, a movie still over which Roddenberry still had much control.

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240342 No.30534

>>30528

Didn't the TOS movies start to bring their predilection with honor in, as well?

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48f701 No.30541

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>25046

>Unpopular Opinions

You wouldn't know it from this subreddit of zoomer poseurs but those are all fairly popular opinions. On every other trek board I've ever used (with the exception of the hyper-autismos on those 'trek vs wars'-type forums) people generally acknowledge that most trek series are mostly drek, with the 5%-10% of good episodes being such gold that it makes up for everything else. It's always love/hate.

>>30525

You're the worst poster on this fucking board and it would be fine if you left forever. I really wouldn't mind.

You can't fucking invoke time travel to somehow be right when someone posts a valid counter-argument to your bullshit, dude.

TOS had more to do with the cold war than anything else and there are a million interviews with the creators that confirm this.

The Vietnam war in particular was ~kind of a big fucking deal~, and the propaganda of the time was informed by, yes, some residual WW2 japan bullshit, but largely they were a mainland "yellow horde" with echos of hundreds of years of the exact imperial rivalry that TOS went out of its way to reflect. Mongols are a much more logical counterpart to Space Romans and that IRL history is absolutely central to the development of european imperialism and the circumstances leading up to the World Wars themselves. That east vs west paradigm is crucial to western history and is largely what framed perceptions of the japanese in the first place, right down to the pointy tails.

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2f0894 No.30551

>>30541

>You wouldn't know it from this subreddit of zoomer poseurs

>>30541

>You're the worst poster on this fucking board and it would be fine if you left forever. I really wouldn't mind.

well aren't you a sourpuss

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240342 No.30552

>>30541

I'm well aware of the fact that TOS was heavily steeped in the Cold War, and I have not at any point contradicted this claim. This does not change the fact that, in the formative parts of their worldbuilding–including the TOS films, in which their uniforms were very reminiscent of feudal Japan–the Klingons were made to resemble the nips.

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b76245 No.30567

>>30551

>well aren't you a sourpuss

yes

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fe7466 No.30980

>>30511

Pretty sure it has been.

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