dc2e6c No.25046 [View All]
I thought we gonna have a thread like this. Buckle up for my hot takes:
- most of the dialog on ST is really clumsy and I find this to be irksome. While there are certainly good monologs, dual exchanges in ST always feel awkward and awfully infantile. It's like every character is constantly in exposition mode and the audience is never required to pick up on clues.
- Let's be honest, besides very fee exceptions like "The Visitor" most of the non-story episodes of DS9 are a snoozefest and filler. There is also zero exploration despite the station being situated next to a wormhole carrying them to the other end of the galaxy.
- despite being a boring movie, ST:TMP was the most Trekish movie, especially with its aesthetic.
- there is never going to be another "real" Trek series, ever. DS9 and even VOY despite its flaws were the last ones. This is because of the industry. Shows these days are all about "personal drama", superficial core issues, Chinese fortune cookie wisdoms in dialog form, massive pressure to have the ratings after season 1, constant SJW quota fullfullment, fast pace so the consumerist audience doesn't get bored. The only chance ever for another decent Trek series would be a completely independent project, non-profit, with crowdfunding. However, you'd catch Aids nonetheless due to the retarded Trekkie community, which would have the main influence over the show.
- post-First Contact uniforms are the best ones. DS9 would be way more enjoyable from the beginning if Avery Brooks shaved his head and got that uniform from the beginning.
- Also, Avery Brooks is a horrible actor.
- despite being left-liberal in tone, there are plenty of episodes that are quite American with neoconservative undertones. In the Pale Moonlight is basically a justification for a false flag to start a war. Old Klingons resemble the Japanese. ST VI was about the end of the Cold War with the Klangs selling out their own country for a Pizza Hut like Gorbachev.
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4ed040 No.27205
>>27181
if it wasn't, it should have been. can't be too prepared when dealing with mongols.
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e44ad9 No.27302
All Trek has good & bad episodes even Voyager.
Voyager had plenty of good episodes such as Deathwish, Living Witness, Tuvix, Riddles, Future's End, Scorpion, The Killing Game, Year of Hell, Equinox, Think Tank, Dark Frontier, Blink of An Eye, Flesh and Blood, Repentance, Q2, and Author, Author.
Year of Hell should have been a movie.
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1b4ffe No.27303
>>27302
I think that VOY has the best and worst episodes. It's makes the series average out to being the third best because the good episodes in other series are much better than their worst ones whereas all VOY's bests are counterbalanced by ones that are terrible to the same magnitude.
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b50afd No.27313
>>27303
VOY isn't really that different from TNG. It's the same concept, a ship that explores and meets other cultures (VOY never explored the whole "cut off from the Alpha Quadrant" dilemma), and even the main villians are the same (Borg). VOY was very conservative, they played it safe, unlike DS9 which has its own problems but at least had balls into doing stuff the other Trek shows never did (until STD, but not in a good way).
Both shows have few really, really good episodes but mostly filler and a few really, really bad ones. I still don't get the hate for VOY, it isn't different from TNG or even TOS in its conception, explores ethical subjects more nuanced (instead of the hammy, low-brow way they did it in TNG), and has a better set design. The only reason TNG is regarded as better is because they were the lucky ones to introduce all the things people loved about Trek that weren't in TOS and the movies.
If you want me to name the quantity of great episodes, I'd actually name more in VOY than in TNG. I'd dare anybody to make an argument why TNG is better than VOY. It really isn't. The only argument you could make is that you'd like some of the actors more.
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b50afd No.27314
>>27180
The Romulans are based on the Chinese more than they are based on the Romans. They only took the names from the Romans, like "Romulus" or "Senate", but their entire culture is a bizarre propaganda image of what Westerners think of Chinese society.
Klingons are clearly Japanese in WWII, I don't know how anybody can't see that.
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ad8a00 No.27315
>>27314
>Klingons are clearly Japanese in WWII, I don't know how anybody can't see that.
Some people are just dumb.
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885835 No.27587
>>25260
>- TNG is 90% filler, you don't realise this until you sit down and rewatch it.
Concept of filler isn't relevant at all with TNG. Show was episodic and there were only limited continuing story elements.
>- Enterprise S1 and the first few episodes of S2 are for the most part competent Trek, beating out the average early season of TNG or any given season of VOY for average quality.
Word you are looking for might be competently done mediocrity for most parts.
>- The Temporal Cold War plotline is actually not a bad concept if you go in with the knowledge the mysterious future man is Archer trying to fix his mistake and remove the Federation
Temporal Cold War undermined everything about ENT being prequel.
>- ST III is a fine film and was as good as we could have hoped for given that it had to retcon Spock's death for marketability reasons. The whole even-odd rule is a meme and not a very good one.
Spocks death double dip by all means. If TWOK failed to make enough money to warrant another sequel, Trek would end in very emotional way. If there would be another sequel, it freed Nimoy to direct and gave 'em instant main plot. It isn't retcon if it is planned. Nimoy had started to focus his career for directing in late 70's
>- Shatner isn't a bad actor just very much of his time. Kirk wouldn't be believable played by anyone more subtle.
How is this supposed to be unpopular opinion?
>>25294
>I never understood why people think S3 are S4 were good
S3 and S4 remain very much in tone with classic Trek and add properly done long format story telling to the mix in right amount. Season 4 is in my opinion the best season in all of Trek, two or three part episodes that make up 4th season is perfect balance between continuing story and episodic episodes.
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e44ad9 No.27611
Sub Rosa isn't as bad as everyone says it is, it's a 4/10 episode. Seriously, can someone explain to me why it's so universally hated?
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240342 No.27612
>>27611
Why exactly are you distinguishing between "4/10" and "universally hated?"
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3bed7b No.27615
>>27611
It's fucking retarded. A Scottish ghost puts a fog on the enterprise.
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f87b46 No.27617
>>27611
>It's a Crusher episode
>It's heavy with sexuality
>Barely any of the regular cast appear
>Crusher confirms she got off reading her grandma's stories of getting boned by a ghost
>Crusher is just okay with boning her grandma's old lover despite how weird or awkward that should be
>The villain's entire plan is to bone the women in Crusher's family to keep himself alive
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d3d91e No.27620
>>27611
>>27612
>>27615
>>27617
Is there a porn paradoy of this episode btw?
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4f9c20 No.27624
>>27617
>No one thought this whole fucking situation was weird until Crusher decided to resign from the enterprise.
seriously, if seemed like if he could have safely left the planet the crew would have just let her keep fucking a ghost without saying a word about it
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d39398 No.27625
>>27620
That episode is the porn parody, anon.
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aa09b8 No.27749
>>27624
Why would they say anything? Geordie fucked holodeck ho's, you know Barclay did too. Not much different to a ghost.
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d62943 No.27750
Thomas Riker is too well adjusted after 8 years of solitude in the station. They should have portrayed him more like a neet/hikki.
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5f8714 No.27755
>>27750
>Thomas Riker is too well adjusted after 8 years of solitude in the station. They should have portrayed him more like a neet/hikki.
It was a lazy character. Why couldn't they have just filmed his episodes/scenes last during the season and have Frakes shave his beard?
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d62943 No.27756
>>27755
Yeah that would have been more convincing. Intersting tidbit: The original plan was to kill off Will Riker, make Data 1st officer and have Thomas riker join a lieutenant.
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24fbf1 No.27758
>>27756
Wouldn't that chick from BoBW be 1st Officer?
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1d5634 No.27918
>>27750
I think he should have been addicted to anime and retire to become a true neet.
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405e5f No.29252
Unpopular Opinion, mine alone: STTNG is actually what a spaceship crew would be like if it was actually an extended family that had hidden incest secrets. Nobody seems comfortable around each other.
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fc73fa No.29255
>>25065
>bloused boots
bloused boots or even just boots worn over the pants leg are just dumb for a crew that spend all day just walking around on space ship decks. They're alright for away missions I suppose, but then the rest of the WoK outfits look far too dressy for away missions in general. Star fleet needs some sort of more utilitarian BDU type of garb for when they leave the ship
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ee5356 No.29331
>>29252
Wasn't the thing anon picked up on in early TNG that it was heavily hinted that Picard might be Wesleys true father?
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79880e No.29345
>>29331
It does feel like that's the sole reason Crusher keeps pushing Wesley and Picard to interact. Like she's trying to get them to make some sort of bond first before she finally drops the "he's your real father" bomb.
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bdc9ea No.29351
>>29345
That or she's desperate for some Captain's log.
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1c5646 No.29410
The Borg Queen was a mistake and destroyed all fascination in the race. When Picard was hailed by the Borg and no one showed up on screen, but a gigantic open space with intense light shining in the back, you knew this foe was as inhuman as facing technology itself.
Also the resolution of The Best of Both Worlds 2 was gimmicky and half-baked. The Borg were built up a little too well in part 1, to go down with just a simple plan. Nowadays that two parter would warrant an entire series.
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7781e7 No.29411
>>29410
This thread is for unpopular opinions, anon. Not self-evident truths.
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84368c No.29412
>>29345
>not just a gold digging single mother with a keen eye for beta providers
Anon, I…
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1c5646 No.29413
>>29411
Trekkies usually react autistically and reply the Borg Queen is exactly the same as the collective. Hence, the scenic effect is too.
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19719c No.29414
>>27749
People talked to Barclay about it and Jeordi recognized it was a bad idea.
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785a2e No.29419
>>25046
Here's mine.
TNG is overrated and its first season is as bad and as preachy as Discovery and nu-Trek. Its also a disgrace to TOS. DS9 however feels like a far better successor to TOS, only ruined by Sisko being so boring.
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ea2896 No.29427
>>25075
>a consolidated trek universe with a merged timeline would be an interesting experiment
Think big, anon. If we have to try the thought experiment, be extreme.
1. All ships and crews coexist in the TNG era.
2. Storylines are kept separate, but occasional cameos do happen.
3. Every season happens at the same time. Each series is aware of the events happening cross franchise.
4. Movies happen between seasons.
5. TOS ship is from a group of non-federation human colonies, closer to classic Earth nations.
6. ENT ship is from a species who had first contact with the federation only a short time back.
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53c13a No.29451
>>29419
TNG season 1 and 2 to an extent is TOS though.
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240342 No.30495
>>29419
>TNG is overrated and its first season is as bad and as preachy as Discovery and nu-Trek
Extend that to S2 TNG, and that's a pretty common opinion around here.
Here's one of mine: If you try very, very, very, very, hard to forget what a massive space-slut Dax is, she and Worf make a good couple.
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ab024c No.30496
>>25046
>Old Klingons resemble the Japanese
>>27314
>>27315
>Klingons are clearly Japanese in WWII, I don't know how anybody can't see that.
They're Mongols you blithering retards.
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eb14cf No.30501
>>30496
Mongols don't obsess about MUH HONORUBRU to the same autistic degree. Nor are they closely associated with an impractical curved sword, whose fanboys insist it's far deadlier than evidence would suggest. Further, the Mongols were not enemies in the previous generation who became close allies in the wake of a massive disaster.
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1e0c71 No.30505
>>27313
This shouldn't even be a controversial opinion. Sure people can argue that the cast was better than TNG, but I don't think it is. Sure, Mulgrew is no Stewart, but I dare anybody to compare the rest. The Doctor and Seven are better than Data, because Data is extremely one-dimensional, which is why Spiner grew tired of him so quickly. Wesley is a catastrophe, Dr. Crusher is boring, and I don't see the difference between Torres and LaForge, the latter is a by-the-book snoozefest and Torres at least has passion. Admittedly, Tuvok is a bit of a vanilla Vulcan, and Paris is a Riker stand-in, but all in all, I just don't see how the Voyager crew is worse than the TNG crew.
I can name more great VOY episodes than TNG episodes. Many say the best TNG episodes are greater because of the emotional impact, but they really are just Patrick Stewart one-man-shows (The Inner Light, Chain of Command), etc. - there isn't a great TNG episode that isn't based on Stewart acting out the classics.
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1e0c71 No.30506
>>30505
cast was better in TNG*
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d5a73f No.30508
>>30501
The old Klingons didn't have impractical curved swords or an obsession with honor, and wouldn't become allies for decades. That all came later.
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d7d998 No.30511
I think the idea of Ezri wearing diapers is /cute/ and should be explored in further detail.
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2f0894 No.30521
>>27313
>>30505
Worst captain, worst first officer. The peripheral breakout characters salvaged the show to the degree it was salvageable.
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240342 No.30525
>>30508
Yes, and "later" was when Klingon culture was really fleshed out and explained in any detail, compared to TOS, where they were just antagonists. So, while they didn't start out as Japs, all of the worldbuilding of consequence has said that they are Japs.
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1e0c71 No.30527
>>30521
I don't know what's wrong with Chakotey. He isn't much different from Riker really. It's just that TOS has set the bar so high with Spock that all the other first officers afterwards weren't all that great. One of the reasons why ENT went with a Vulcan again, imo.
Plus, Janeway still beats Archer. She has her moments. The reason she's regarded as bad is because of her sometimes psychopathic or frankly erratic decisions.
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1e0c71 No.30528
>>30525
Klingon worldbuilding started with the TOS movies though. Search for Spock was the movie that really introduced them, and TMP introduced their famous make-up, a movie still over which Roddenberry still had much control.
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240342 No.30534
>>30528
Didn't the TOS movies start to bring their predilection with honor in, as well?
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48f701 No.30541
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>25046
>Unpopular Opinions
You wouldn't know it from this subreddit of zoomer poseurs but those are all fairly popular opinions. On every other trek board I've ever used (with the exception of the hyper-autismos on those 'trek vs wars'-type forums) people generally acknowledge that most trek series are mostly drek, with the 5%-10% of good episodes being such gold that it makes up for everything else. It's always love/hate.
>>30525
You're the worst poster on this fucking board and it would be fine if you left forever. I really wouldn't mind.
You can't fucking invoke time travel to somehow be right when someone posts a valid counter-argument to your bullshit, dude.
TOS had more to do with the cold war than anything else and there are a million interviews with the creators that confirm this.
The Vietnam war in particular was ~kind of a big fucking deal~, and the propaganda of the time was informed by, yes, some residual WW2 japan bullshit, but largely they were a mainland "yellow horde" with echos of hundreds of years of the exact imperial rivalry that TOS went out of its way to reflect. Mongols are a much more logical counterpart to Space Romans and that IRL history is absolutely central to the development of european imperialism and the circumstances leading up to the World Wars themselves. That east vs west paradigm is crucial to western history and is largely what framed perceptions of the japanese in the first place, right down to the pointy tails.
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2f0894 No.30551
>>30541
>You wouldn't know it from this subreddit of zoomer poseurs
>>30541
>You're the worst poster on this fucking board and it would be fine if you left forever. I really wouldn't mind.
well aren't you a sourpuss
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240342 No.30552
>>30541
I'm well aware of the fact that TOS was heavily steeped in the Cold War, and I have not at any point contradicted this claim. This does not change the fact that, in the formative parts of their worldbuilding–including the TOS films, in which their uniforms were very reminiscent of feudal Japan–the Klingons were made to resemble the nips.
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b76245 No.30567
>>30551
>well aren't you a sourpuss
yes
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fe7466 No.30980
>>30511
Pretty sure it has been.
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