/strek/ - Star Trek

Did you not like any episode

Like not any at all

>>23807

The Chakotay flashback episode with the (original?) Native Americans and the massive spaceworm thing episode were pretty cool, but outside of that it was pretty damn unenjoyable (and hell, one of my favorite episodes is fucking ALAMARANE!).

>>23804

The only good thing on VOY was the set.

>>23804

>/strek/ giving advice to watch Voyager

Anon don't make shit up.

>>23804

Which VOY episode is the worst?

because I can't stand Janeway I'd say "Fair Heaven".

>>23808

What about scorpion one year of hell or the emh episodes

>>23811

I'd say transfigurations and threshold

Oh and I forgot in the flesh. Very good episode

>>23804

>Ok, /strek/, I just took your advice and watched Voyager

This is why VOYposting isn't funny guys, some people think you're serious

>>23804

>Ok, /strek/, I just took your advice and watched Voyager.

Listening to the one autistic commie who actually likes the show is the opposite of taking /strek/'a advice.

>This guy expects us to believe he actually watched 130 hours of a series he hated every minute of

You watched half of Caretaker, three plot synopses of later episodes, and then decided to come a-trolling, and the best you can come up with is "Neelix was the cook but his food sucked, lol!". How fucking stupid do you think we are?

>>23836

Apparently pretty fucking dumb if you actually believe I would give this my %100 attention for every single minute of the show. Considering how mediocre more than half of the episodes in a season are, taking care of some programming work or having a game of chess online while viewing this tripe is the only thing that made it watchable. But, I've been told that apparently I need to watch this at some point in time so the deed is done.

Eto…. I think Voyager is watchable. Show has the best title theme and best doctor of the franchise. Also the fastest ship. And Tom Paris is more Chad than Riker.

>>23804

>Ok, /strek/, I just took your advice and watched Voyager.

Just because someone offers you free candy or free Rock CDs, doesn't mean you should take it.

>>23836

Also don't forget that the recent VOY thread where people recommended giving VOY a go is barely a week old. It's humanly impossible to watch everything within that time (while hating every minute of it).

VOY isn't the best Trek, but it has its moments (specifcially in season 3-5, the best ones IMO)

>>23883

> arguably the best Trek series

no, there is no way to argue this. logic cannot endure that level of torture without passing out or dying.

>>23808

>>23836

>>23884

>no, there is no way to argue this

I liked it the first time and I'm rewatching it its really good here are some examples:

Best of VOY

>The Thaw

>Prime Factors

Arguably the best intelligent diplomacy trek episode.

Picard would simply start flipping shit and chimping out in this situation.

Janeway is intelligent and understandable.

The problem is understandable to the audience (we must get home these aliens can help).

Intelligent negotiation begins.

>is there no way for us to get this technology

<We have our laws sorry

Janeway comets how they are on the other side of the prime directive in a intelligent way.

>What if we promise to destroy the technology after we jump?

<No dice

>You did send one of my crew, can you not do the same for our ship?

Janeway begins negotiation using basically the Federations database of music and movies who the aliens can sell (everything in the federation is public domain; the aliens have copyright).

She understands how to subtly bribe the aliens (pure trek gold here) by promising and giving gifts of intellectual Property.

Others try to get the technology from the black market, interesting reasoning.

Some time flies by, it turns out the official gov was never interested in giving their technology.

Janeway gets pissed and leaves (I don't thing anyone would blame her).

I think everything involving holograms is also pure gold in Voyager.

>Revulsion

>Flesh and Blood

Watch these episodes and tell me exactly why its bad.

>>23884

You are still only asserting VOY is bad.

You still give no reasons to why exactly.

>>23883

>Voyager was great arguably the best Trek series.

Dude, Enterprise is a better show than Voyager. Enterprise.

FUCKING ENTERPRISE

>>23888

>voyagerfag considers an entirely mediocre and forgettable episode something you really need to think about

I'd have taken you more seriously if you would've asked us to rewatch Threshold and think about the implications of that storyline.

>>23892

> forgettable episode

I give you this.

Is it forgettable because it dose not have unique colorful spaceships or unique anomalies(time travel etc) or unique looking memorable aliens?

True. However is it bad? No.

I only noticed it after rewatching VOY.

The writing is solid, actually its the best ST has every other "diplomacy" is basically shit throwing angry captain who throws shit and you are supposed to agree with him, regardless how illogical and spearging he is.

Show one moment in the episode where the diplomacy is not spot on?

The only point where you can blame Janeway is when she gets angry that the government did not intend to ever help them so she tells them her mind and decides to walk away.

The fact that you literally can not argue with how great the writing in this episode is speaks volumes.

And that her behavior in this episode is light years above all other trek "diplomacy" combined speaks for itself.

I rest my case.

>>23891

>>23892

Congratulations you failed the challenge.

Not one single argument to why VOY is bad.

Are all VOY haters some ADHD children who watched SF debris and are repeating his memes and insane+irrational VOY hate?

>>23839

>Hey guys I watched this show and now I'm going to review it!

>Well, I mean I had it playing in the background while I did other shit and never really paid it any attention… BUT IT WAS STILL TERRIBLE TRUST ME!!

Was admitting you're a complete retard part of your plan?

>>23883

>>23844

>>23907

The truly retarded thing would be to give all 25-26 episodes in each season your full attention. If an average episode lasts about 45 minutes, that's about over 5 days of wasted time. But hey, that's why watching something while programming is nice, if something good is actually happening that's a pretty good signal to give my weary fingers a break, like one of the (passable) Borg episodes (Unimatrix Zero was pretty aight) or something like that.

To be honest, after having a little bit more time to think about the show overall I had a lot of these moments (which sometimes lasted through the whole episode, albeit rarely), but still on average I only really wanted to get to the end - to see if this absolutely stumbling, slow series would actually pay off at the end when they reached Earth, but that too was a major letdown: but hey, at least I didn't let this show waste my time and really the fact that you're attempting to critique my methods of watching is nearing, for lack of a better word, irrelevancy. Coming from a guy who gets his rocks off to Alfred Hitchcock and old film noir movies, if I can keep my attention glued to something like that but turn my gaze away from Voyager this speaks more about Voyager than myself. Don't even start with "but those movies are very aesthetically pleasing so you're just visually interested in them", which they are very pleasing to the eye, but so was Voyager to an extent with their amazing set design and makeup jobs (still think the Kazon look like they have weed buds growing out of their head tho).

Really I think the thing that's pissed me off the most were people trying to compare TNG to Voyager, and while I agree that DS9 is aeons better than TNG, Voyager imo was a new low for Star Trek overall. Yet Voyager does have one thing going for it - it's no longer the worst Star Trek series (if we could even call that soylent shit Star Trek which I think would be too much of a complement for it).

>>23919

>Voyager imo was a new low for Star Trek overall

You know what you are failing at?

You still failed to actually answer these points

1) Why exactly is VOY bad? Actual analysis.

you suggest it is however never explain why

2) What are your favorite episodes in all of Trek, the gold standard you want all episodes to be? And what makes it good in your opinion?

Actually provide some basis for what you like.

>>23921

>>23922

Why are you samefagging this hard?

>>23923

???

The fuck?

Yes >>23922 and >>23921 are my own posts.

I know this and everyone knows this (the IDs).

After writing >>23921 I thought it was to long and rambly so I wrote another to make it short and precise what i want from the ones who hate on VOY to explain.

>>23922

See short summery.

I still wait for VOY haters to answer >>23922

>>23924

Well, thanks for turning the notch down a little, and yeah, you're probably right about the multiple screens thing, and I must admit this is probably becoming a bad habit. But to be honest, I really can't focus while working worth a darn unless I have something else going on. The bare minimum for me is usually sports talk radio, but I've been like that since I was a kid and if I'm still like that 20 years later then all hope is lost for me on that front.

Also I hear you on the ambient music while doing the computer work, BoC & company are some of my faves (honestly would recommend BoC to anyone on this board, very retro sci-fi sounding stuff. Also could you recommend some Eno for me? Tried Music for Airports but that wasn't really up my alley).

>>23926

To be fair it almost played out like a good-cop bad-cop routine and I saw that above earlier but I let it slide. Couldn't let it happen here though.

However, to address both you and >>23924, fine. I'm going to wait at least 6 months to clear my head from this first viewing, then I'll watch one episode every 14.6 days so I'll also have a time frame of reference for the show, so I'll report back to you all sometime around the end of… 2025.

To answer your questions in the now, however:

1. Very lazy, maybe even awkward script writing. For instance in Future's End part 2 at the very end of the episode when the crew is having a celebration because they just saved the timeline: "You should've seen it when the parking enforcment officer came over to the van, Tuvok tried to use pure Vulcan logic to talk her out of giving us a citation." At no point in the episode did we get to see this, and I would have actually liked to have seen that because that shit would have been hilarious.

Also what a bout Kes? Kes and Neelix made such a cute couple, it was actually really depressing to see them grow apart. This happened off camera too, I believe, I mean there was that "breakup" while she was being possessed, but then there's no more mention their relationship together after that epsiode so Kes actually meant it? Just the previous episode before that they were watching soap operas together, wtf? I know from personal experience that a long-term relationship can end really fast and suddenly, but I mean shit if what she said in "Warlords" was actually her real opinion then maybe they could have just come to an agreement? Neelix was being overbearing but he cared so much for her, what a bitch move to do to someone who feels that way for another person. Neelix could have obviously used a chill-pill, but this is basically the same thing as women getting upset for someone being "too nice" (which also retroactively means they probably have daddy issues). That all seems so completely out-of-character for a woman so kind and forgiving as Kes. It's also pretty darn obvious that they either knew they were going to cut her OR she wanted off the show, so they wrapped her up so they could Deus Ex Machina their way out of Borg space.

Also a huge sin committed by the writing crew was Ashes to Ashes - a couple of inconsequential references to the character that are buried in the minor minutiae of an episode does not make that character familiar in our minds, nor does it inspire the closeness to a character that is implied by the episode. To be fair, this was the point that I formed my opinion. The first time I ever saw Voyager was this episode and that was something like 10 years ago, probably when the episodes release date was still pretty fresh and I always wondered who this reanimated person was, but my complete dismay knew no bounds when I found out we have absolutely no character development for her outside of what is in that episode. Basically she's Ensign Plotdevice and that lazy shit doesn't fly with me.

Also that one Cardie chick who was masquerading as a Bajroan Maquis insurgent, the sheer number of times she was brought back up (along with the Kazon, zzzzz) was painful. Couldn't she have been killed-off like 2 cameos ago? It makes me feel like she was kept around also to be a plot device. Maybe some people appreciated her but the Kayzon and all that stuff just didn't do it for me.

See this is why I try not to be too specific because then I'll start blogposting, but this is what you asked for.

Answer 2 coming up…

>>23927

2. Man that's a long list to come up with, but I'll have to leave it with just episodes that I enjoy deeply but others may not tout them as "classics" in no particular order because this is taking up some considerable time:

DS9 "Move Along Home"

Really I think how wonderful it would be to play a game like this, sounds like a ton of fun. Also the theme of being too bold or arrogant to humble yourself is a real life lesson, even though the way its' shown in here is a little silly. Overall the message here is that you shouldn't be afraid of what is strange to you, and that's been somewhat of a driving force in my life, far before I ever saw this episode. Also I really like the design of the game itself, but laugh every time they pay Quark in literally a handful of fiddle-faddle (seriously, that's Jade, Rose Quartz, Quartz, Tiger's Eye [crystalized? asbestos], and fucking fool's gold [pyrite]. Behind the scenes I bet they went to a geology side show somewhere and got a $5 grab bag of various rocks and called it "gemstones". As for why I know so much about this I was the kid that liked rocks, and to be blunt these are some of the most common pretty-looking rocks in the world.), but the best part of all is that Quark, a member of the race known for their shrewd business practices actually accepts it! LOL. Yeah I know a lot of people hate this episode but feck off m8.

DS9 "Take Me Out to the Holosuite"

BASEBALLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!11111!1!11! "Bases Crowded" cracks me up EVERY TIME, and finally getting that come-uppance on your school-days nemesis, YES!

TNG "Fistfull of Datas"

Why not? Entertaining, funny as all get-out, and seeing Marina Sirtis trying to grasp a southern accent. Yes it's hardly Star Trek but it's still a fun little romp.

TNG "Where Noone Has Gone Before"

Campy, very very campy, but really there's more at work here than just a weird plot-device that sends them off into the farthest reaches of the cosmos, this is basically what I personally believe. I believe that thought changes the universe that we live in, and in a sense the universe itself is almost like a hologram (which is another conversation completely and there are examples that I can use but I really need to get going with this list), which is like a machination of some sort, some sort of evidence that there is something behind the proverbial curtain? If this is true, then that system of control (and by that I mean what we call the Universe) limits this functionality, but still thought can change the universe - especially if a specific thought or belief in something is shared. Even if that "something", whatever it is, doesn't theoretically exist: when people exercise these group-thought dynamics it brings whatever is the subject of those thoughts closer to actually being real. Imagine how easy it would be outside of this Universe's system of control for one person to think something into existence… dope af episode. Apologies if that sounds like rambling because it is, but I mean shit, go over to /pol/ and you'll see the same damn idea (at least being thought of) with "Kek".

ALL the TNG Klingon Episodes

Klingons are cool af ok? They finally become more fleshed out in this series rather than just viewing them as "that one aggro race". The Romulans are excellent main villains, cunning, intelligent, and pretty much evil to the core, sometimes even to their own kind. But the Klingons? Klingons sound like some dudes I'd like to party with, hell yeah lets bash our heads in, get drunk as piss, then start singing while two dudes kill each other over some Klingon ho in front of us. FUCK YEAH. Anyway, the point is I don't feel like the Klingons could be hated forever and this pretty much confirms it. Additionally, it mimics the entire point of the Federation not just in the show but the original IRL intention of the show, we can all get along peacefully if we try hard enough (like Chekhov in TOS). Also the whole plotline of Worf's wife getting murdered while trying to clear his name, then Worf killing that Durasswipe son of a Targ, and the shadow politics game of cat-and-mouse that persists into a full-blown Klingon Civil war… and all of it is because Tasha Yarr's half-Romulan daughter from a timeline fuckup is behind all of it? *slow clap* That's some damn good story writing there, honestly I feel like someone could just take this storyline out of TNG and make a trilogy epic out of it.

(char limit)

>>23930

TOS "Mirror, Mirror"

Other than the fact that seeing Spock with a stereotypical villain beard cracked me up as a kid, this was just a really fun and action-packed episode to watch and also was damn revolutionary for its' time, maybe even the first time that an alternate universe trope was used on the screen (and by that I mean big AND small)? Also, uh, I must confess but I love swordplay. Like I said I watched this when I was a kid but (I know this is going to sound really funny) but it probably had something to do with me taking fencing lessons for some time. And hey, fencing is a pretty damn cool sport, now I know how a sword battle should be instead of just two actors who know jack-shit about swordplay bashing their swords at each other (like dude, blade-on-blade is not what longswords or rapiers are made for dammit! You're going to fockin ruin it!). Also never knew Sulu was that ripped, also don't mimic his stance because if you put your hand up like that it's called "a target", real fencers as a general rule don't do that shit so put it down behind you, and, you know, move it away if they go for it.

That's what I can come up with right now and I mean there are others, but damn if I keep on writing this can go on forever, maybe another installment later? Overall there's one episode that I think is the best out of any Star Trek I've seen bar-none, and that would be: DS9's "The Visitor"

Man I… can't really even think about this episode without tearing up, can't wait to hear Razorfist's take on it either. The tragic death of Cisko and coming back years later, proving that he was still alive in some capacity. I've had dreams like this before where I'd meet someone and became friends with this person, then they'd literally just vanish and I would have no idea why, and just in perfect moments while still in this same dream I could hear their voice echoing somewhere but couldn't find out where it was coming from, so this one really hit home for me. However, the end is just… almost too sad to watch again and I can't decide which part is more tear-jerkingly painful to watch: the fact that Jake has to kill himself to put the timeline back in order so that he can finally have his dad back (which, to be fair, that's some shit for Jake to go through, teen years with no father or mother figures… fuck man…) or the knowledge that Cisko's only son killed himself so that they could spend more time together, even if that meant getting blown away by the Dominion the very next day. Heart-wrenching stuff, nearly cursed Star Trek's very name after I watched that because I didn't know Star Trek could make me feel like this. Also leads you into a false sense of security when reading the title of the show first, you think it's going to be another "creature of the week" sort of thing but it turns out to be one of the hardest-hitting episodes known to Trek. When I rewatch DS9 I… skip this episode even though I love it because I know exactly how it's going to make me feel. It's like Watching Grave of the Fireflies, why would you want to subject yourself to sadness that deep twice?

>>23919

>Coming from a guy who gets his rocks off to Alfred Hitchcock and old film noir movies

You couldn't provide one reason why you like them. You sound like a retarded millennial hipster who watches old shit because he thinks it makes him cultured and wise, in defiance of his closed-mindedness and wasteful youth. Is that the kind of person you want to present yourself as?

>>23930

Dam it! I'm such rambler.

What I forgot to ask in >>23932

was

What are the themes of

>Also the theme of being too bold or arrogant to humble yourself is a real life lesson

Because I have never seen it and I watched the episode like yesterday.

>>23930

>TNG "Fistfull of Datas"

Good episode fun and interesting story.

I like how they actually acknowledge that data can kill them all before they can react.

What I liked the most was the theme of a personality override similar to episodes like VOY Warlord that I also liked or DS9 the passenger

>TNG "Where Noone Has Gone Before"

I also like this its like you say a little silly however I like strangles in my fiction.

>but still thought can change the universe

On a semi joking note what did you think of futuramas take on this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RtMMupdOC4

>ALL the TNG Klingon Episodes

Totally agree.

For me its their alien ideology. Not only is it interesting its actually makes the most sense of all ideologies in all of trek.

I made this post

https://8ch.net/strek/res/21550.html#23885

talking how bad Andormeda Nietzscheans are and how they need to be stupid and fail to understand statistics to have a functioning ideology.

Volcans don't show emotions and string some reasoning together and call it logic (there is nothing logical about their actions really).

For me the star trek started my fascination with real life ideologies and thinking about them. The first interest was this one TNG episode (I don't remember what its name was) there where 2 races on the ship and one decided to start a hunt and the other race was thinking its barbaric.

>TOS "Mirror, Mirror"

Agree I like multiverse stories especially evil versions of characters in all of fiction.

I throw in all mirror universe episodes in all of trek and especially ENT "in a mirror darkly"(the best ENT episode) you notice these people are not comically evil(see sith) and not sabotaging one another 24/7 mirror Archer wanted only to be a patriot then got little greedy about commanding the ship (under the emperor) and wanting some medals from the emperor, his superior was thinking he is obsessed and incompetent so he disciplined him and the sociopaths who want to take over the empire are rare.

Also the ship is basically platos ring of invisibility and gives the ability to take over the empire. You notice Archer was not corrupted by it like others. He only wanted to help his empire and emperor, maybe wanted some command over the ship he was literally tortured for and suffered for, some medals and a place in history books.

Contrast with the sith who are balls to the wallz crazy and non functional.

Do you think I should get a blog for this writing?

>>23933

lol dude I watched Vertigo for the first time when I was 5, closded-mindedness and wasteful youth? Fock u m8 that shit was my childhood, deal with it. I saw it in an actual theater too because my home town knows what's up, too bad they started running current films at that cinema 15 years ago and folded up a few years after that. Also I… didn't know we had to provide reasons why Hitchcock is good? He's a god of film, dammit. How about his amazing writing and pacing skills, able to tell a whole entire story with real movement in one room and with one take (Rope)? Or if we're gonna talk other Film Noir type of stuff, which really the base genre here is suspense but that's the thing with suspense, it takes a long time to build and some can and do call it boring, but that's the thing about these older films, they build for about an hour and a half and then punch you in the fuckin nuts. Anyway, Film Noir, fav films of this category are "Sorry, Wrong Number" and "The Third Man". Both films have examples of purely flawless camera work (such as the office scene in SWN and the e climactic sewer scene in TTM, but also at the end of the same film… fucking haunting) and the story will keep you guessing and they don't try to half-ass it for the sake of time either. Shit the day I have to explain myself on Hitchcock is a sad one indeed, ffs.

>>23934

Well, that was the entire point of the game, at least imo. They had to force themselves to basically play hopscotch and sing a rhyme because they were afraid it would make them look silly, but that's how they "stay alive" as well. In the next room, they instantly believe that they are being led astray by drinking poison, even though they were practically instructed to drink multiple times. Again, Cisko and co. were too arrogant to believe that they could carry on with the loss of a crewman, even in the face of what they thought was certain death and their survival was in that situation more important than someone who was basically already dead. Instead, they were too proud to face the fact that they just might have to get a B- instead of an A+ on their post-mission briefing because they lost a crew member, but that's not how the game is played.

>>23945

>>23946

is it something about the meaning.

All I see is meaningless babbling ghetto trash, can someone translate this and interpret his for me?

>>23949

stellar cartography, level three, mike burnham (the other nigger), mutiny.

>>23921

Shut the fuck up cunt. no one actually fucking cares. You talk like you have Janeway's cock up your ass because someone dared to say they were being a productive member of society and not spending 5 days of their life just watching your precious show. Other people have moved out the basement. They are busy. So by all means go and watch TNG 2 all you want, but no one else gives a flying fuck.

>>23971

Lol so angry. Are you by chance a negro?

>>23897

>>23897

>>Not one single argument to why VOY is bad.

*Bad acting

*Bad scripts

*Neelix

*Harry Kim

*Janeway

*SJW themes; Janeway was always trying to save every species she encountered, even when they didn't deserve it.

*Plasma conduits….how many times did the plasma conduits rupture? You would think that thy would have found a solution, especially with Borg technology available.

*It took 5 years of sappy episodes to finally skullf*ck the Borg.

>>23976

>It took 5 years of sappy episodes to finally skullf*ck the Borg

That's another point against Voyager, that the Borg could get skullfucked on any major scale at all. A single cube destroyed a large part of Starfleet (with Klingon allies) and was an existential threat to the entire Federation. ONE SHIP with a crew of 130 and captained by a schizophrenic regularly emerging victorious against Borg vessels is bad enough; that same vessel permanently crippling the entire Borg by taking out a transwarp hub (incidentally, the Borg having any kind of single important component like this instead of being a completely homogeneous force of nature is pretty shit as well) is thousands of times worse.

>>23973

that was a bit harsh.

>>23976

>Janeway was always trying to save every species she encountered, even when they didn't deserve it

Not unique to Voyager in the least. In fact, compared to other captains (like Picard who was always the "good guy"), Janeway tended to flip-flop on morals just for purposes of base survival.

Here are some generally agreed upon statements.

-VOY and ENT still qualifies as Trek at least as far as pre Jew Jew bullshit goes.

-VOY had a few okay episodes.

-VOY still had problems, lots of problems.

Now, the next statement is /tv/ grade bait.

>VOY is the greatest

The only sensible reply if it needs to be replied to at all is already outlined in >>23971

>Shut the fuck up cunt.

>>23992

>that entire importance column

only DS9 needs a thing like this

>>23976

>Namefag

>skullf*ck

Get the fuck out of here.

>>24001

>>24002

Well they are a good cure for constipation? Maybe that's what he meant?

>>24001

>>24002

/strek/ guide to ds9 when?

>>24012

/strek/ and imageboards in general favor a certain kind of autism, and with it completionism or maybe I'm just projecting, so I'm not sure how easily we could reliably create an episode guide encouraging viewers to skip around. There are a few skippable filler episodes ('Move Along Home' being the titular example) here and there, but by and large I'd encourage anons to watch the series all the way through, even the God-awful last season, if for no other reason than to understand why it deserves so much hate. Feel free to skip most of Season 7 on subsequent viewings, though.

>>24013

I'll attempt to start this list now, other anons feel free to chip in:

DS9 episodes that you can skip on first viewing. There are 'bad' episodes not included on this list that I feel have enough qualities to at least merit a first watch-through:

>Move Along Home

>Melora

>Playing God

>Fascination

>Past Tense

>Explorers

>Rejoined

>Bar Association

>The Muse

>Let He Who is Without Sin…

>Resurrection

>Far Beyond the Stars

>Profit and Lace

>Time's Orphan

>>23992

>Message in A Bottle

>The one where The Doctor goes on a field trip to the USS Prometheus

Not "The one where they made a gay EMH, and called it an improvement".

>>24014

Every Ferengi episode is entertaining, even if they're not plot-important. Quark is the third-best character in the show, so it tends to shine whenever he's on screen.

>>24016

>Every Ferengi episode is entertaining, even if they're not plot-important.

Agree completely, but I still had to put "Bar Assocation" in there because the lefty propaganda is just so cringy. Maybe "Profit and Lace" could be bumped from the do-not-watch to simply dishonorable mention, it's been a few years since I've seen it. Trap Quark does drag it down an awful lot, though.

>>24024

If possible we should take a survey of each episode, and try to get as many /strek/ users as possible to fill it out. There are quite a few episodes which people disagree on, so if we get a large population of /strek/ users we will be able to call episodes universally good if they meet a certain threshold of being liked, like 70%, maybe just even 50%. I think in order to add even more autism we should make this a weekly thing and vote for all episodes of one season each week. In just 7 weeks we would be able to cover any of the series. If we start with TOS and move all the way through Enterprise, this would be about 29 weeks, so we'll have enough data to make a comprehensive /strek/ approved list by February if we started now.

>>23927

>Also a huge sin committed by the writing crew was Ashes to Ashes - a couple of inconsequential references to the character that are buried in the minor minutiae of an episode does not make that character familiar in our minds, nor does it inspire the closeness to a character that is implied by the episode.

Honestly, when I read the teaser of "a dead crewmember comes back", I had fucking expected it to be the OG Harry Kim from this timeline.

Imagine that? A who's-the-real-Kim episode, a real conflict where the dead Kim feels replaced, and the living one doesn't know WHAT to do.

But noooo, we get some cunt they never even noticed. Not even someone who actually died ON screen.

>>24038

>Imagine that? A who's-the-real-Kim episode, a real conflict where the dead Kim feels replaced, and the living one doesn't know WHAT to do.

It would be a TNG plot rehash so its kinda surprising they didn't do it

>>24034

Honestly, this is a good idea. We can deal with making a list out of it later, after all the results are in, but a seperate thread with a weekly vote would be neat.

I put off watching Enterprise because Voyager was thoroughly unenjoyable and general consensus was that ENT<VOY. Years ago I tolerated 4 seasons of Voyager before I quit. (also watched the "important" episodes in seasons 5-7) Then a couple months ago, I started watching Enterprise and realized that many people have an insanely inflated regard for Voyager. It is objectively bad for all the reasons mentioned in OP. Enterprise, however, is great. Although Bakula as Archer was miscast and Mayweather is the most boring character in the history of Star Trek, ENT actually accomplishes something.

What even is the point of Voyager? TNG brought back the intrepid crew. DS9 explored the politics on the fringes of the Federation, Enterprise provided much needed foundation. I'd argue that Voyager has the most ambitious premise: survival in the face of impossible odds in a part of the galaxy that is uniquely treacherous. Yet, the stories and the day to day life of the crew do not reflect this burden. It's basically TNG-lite but in another quadrant. They do not act like a crew that is encumbered by the reality of their situation. Voyager promises so much but it fails to deliver on everything. If the premise had been similar to TNG, but about deep space exploration, I think the stories would have made more sense. Studio execs are mainly to blame. You just can't recreate the comradery and comfiness of TNG when the stakes are so fucking high.

>>24045

I agree, ENT is definitely far and away better than VOY. Fuck that series finale though.

>>24045

>You just can't recreate the comradery and comfiness of TNG when the stakes are so fucking high.

According to RD Moore at least, it originally wasn't supposed to rehash TNG. VOY became barely warmed over TNG2 because it might have thought it was a safe decision to do.

http://www.lcarscom.net/rdm1000118.htm

>Who judges if VOYAGER is working? Moore answers, "The audience is still watching VOYAGER. The ratings are down, but the ratings are down across television, in every category, on every network, and every program. As long as the studio believes that the franchise can make money, and that there is an audience there, they will continue to produce it. If they believe that it is seriously in great difficulty, Paramount will make changes. But each of us has to make our own judgement on what is good and bad. I know what I like in the series, and what I don’t like in the series. I don’t really care for where the franchise is now, where it’s going. It’s not about anything. It feels to me that it is a very content-free show. It’s not really speaking to the audience on any real level anymore. What’s happening is that it’s very superficial. It talks a good game. It talks about how it’s about deep social problems, and how it’s about sociological issues, and that it’s very relevant. It’s about exploration, and it’s about the unknown, and all these cute catch phrases, but scratch the surface of that and there is really not much underneath it all. VOYAGER doesn’t really believe in anything. The show doesn’t have a point of view that I can discern. It doesn’t have anything really to say. I truly believe it simply is just wandering around the galaxy. It doesn’t even really believe in its own central premise, which is to me its greatest flaw."

>Moore notes, "I’ve said this to Brannon for years, because he and I would talk about the show when it was first invented. I just don’t understand why it doesn’t even believe in itself. Examine the fundamental premise of VOYAGER. A starship chases a bunch of renegades. Both ships are flung to the opposite side of the galaxy. The renegades are forced to come aboard Voyager. They all have to live together on their way home, which is going to take a century or whatever they set up in the beginning. I thought, This is a good premise. That’s interesting. Get them away from all the familiar STAR TREK aliens, throw them out into a whole new section of space where anything can happen. Lots of situations for conflict among the crew. The premise has a lot of possibilities. Before it aired, I was at a convention in Pasadena, and [scenic illustrator, technical consultant Rick] Sternbach and [scenic art supervisor, technical consultant Michael] Okuda were on stage, and they were answering questions from the audience about the new ship. It was all very technical, and they were talking about the fact that in the premise this ship was going to have problems. It wasn’t going to have unlimited sources of energy. It wasn’t going to have all the doodads of the Enterprise. It was going to be rougher, fending for themselves more, having to trade to get supplies that they want. That didn’t happen. It doesn’t happen at all, and it’s a lie to the audience. I think the audience intuitively knows when something is true and something is not true. VOYAGER is not true. If it were true, the ship would not look spick-and-span every week, after all these battles it goes through. How many times has the bridge been destroyed? How many shuttlecrafts have vanished, and another one just comes out of the oven? That kind of bullshitting the audience I think takes its toll. At some point the audience stops taking it seriously, because they know that this is not really the way this would happen. These people wouldn’t act like this."

>>24045

I think that most people disregard ENT because it was a clusterfuck of plotholes and retcons. Really just standard prequel fare. It was also the least "original Trek", and ushered in the darker-and-edgier Nu Trek, so a lot of people blame it for making the JJ-verse possible.

Really, the biggest problem with VOY was also the biggest problem with TNG: it's too episodic. Aside from a few episodes here and there and the required season-ending-cliffhanger-two-parters, there are no overreaching plotlines. You can pick any episode out of a hat and watch it, and it's self-contained. Nothing ever changes from one season to the next, except maybe a cast member or two arrives or leaves, or someone changes their hairstyle.

But it's for this reason, also, that TNG and VOY were always the syndication champions, and DS9 and ENT less-so. Nobody wants to watch cable reruns if you're going to pop into the middle of a complicated plot and have no idea what the fuck is going on, because you haven't seen the previous episodes in years and forgot what happens. No, VOY is simple: if you remember the bare essentials of the plot, a little about who the characters are and what they do, you can pick up any episode and not be confused.

I have to believe that they intended this, to some point. It was a sign of the times. Modern shows can have overreaching plotlines because you can stream the whole season on Netflix or whatever, go back if you missed something. But back then, if you skipped an episode of DS9 in the middle of the Dominion War or whatever, you were right fucked unless you bought the DVD to see what you missed. People back then wanted a more "casual" show on first airing too, so they didn't have to stress about seeing every episode. MOST popular TV shows in the late 90's and early 00's were highly episodic like that.

>>24047

The supposed original plan has always surprised me because VOY seems tailor-made for an "X of the week" plot format, and the Maquis vs Feds conflict setup was DOA since all the characters are boring and have no real reason to fight. It was on UPN ffs, they were never going to do BSG meets TWD in the 90s.

I'd like to think it still could've worked because honestly TNG has the most ill-considered premise and character choices of them all, and talented writers still salvaged it from Gene's fits of madness. (This is why I have no hope for STD – someone could, conceivably, write a good story about Spock's long lost genderfluid negro sister, but they're never going to have that writer working for them, especially when they could defect to Team Orville)

>>24069

>The supposed original plan has always surprised me because VOY seems tailor-made for an "X of the week" plot format, and the Maquis vs Feds conflict setup was DOA since all the characters are boring and have no real reason to fight. It was on UPN ffs, they were never going to do BSG meets TWD in the 90s.

It's somewhere in that huge ass interview link, but the impression I got was RD Moore thought one thing in the beginning, B&B and the higher-ups had different plans or was simply phoning it in. Many of the people in the DS9 writing team saw the writing on the wall and passed on it.

> (This is why I have no hope for STD – someone could, conceivably, write a good story about Spock's long lost genderfluid negro sister, but they're never going to have that writer working for them, especially when they could defect to Team Orville)

Yep. And why the fuck would they, STD from what I see has very poor reaction among trek fans, and I doubt that reaction will transform the way TOS to later seasons of TNG. I know one of my friends actually watches STD, but he is strictly .45 casull with trek in general, and he will never ever buy into whatever that fuck pay streaming option that cbs is peddling. He watched it on the digital high seas. So cbs did snag some casual market that for some reason it wants to chase, who will also never throw in a red cent their way because even most casuals won't fucking buy it. Good jerb cbs. Slow fugging clap all around.

Ok op. I know I shouldn't do this. But I am goo g to rewatch voy now too. Might as well ive cycled through the rest of the series twice now and haven't watched it all the way through but once, and that was 5 years back.

So yeah. Let's bring the pain.

I'm doing it.

>farscape

>bad

I bet you think starhunter was bad too huh faggot i bet you think lexx was bad you fucking i bet you think firefly was gayfagot i will fucking i bet yo

>>23811

>Which VOY episode is the worst?

Twisted & Threshold

>>23804

>Vid related contains all the Voyager anyone needs to watch.

By the way, OP, if you're taking suggestions on strek related topics have you tried watching Enterprise whilst punching yourself repeatedly in the balls? It really enhances the experience.

>>24047

Voyager was better than nuBSG, so even if it was an episodic shit show with awful characters it was still better than RDM’s trainwreck.

>>23929

>I was never interested in these characters.

Okay, I think we found your problem. The entire series is about Neelix/Kes, and Neelix/Naiomi after Kes hits puberty. The series only exists because the person who played Janeway once played Colombo's twelve-year-old-wife.

Basically, like the ending of Gay Niggers from Outer Space, Naiomi was the captain, but Earth wasn't ready for that. So… of course you missed everything, you don't know what's really going on.

>>23897

>SF debris is just memes and irrational hate

Really?

Because I thought he had some pretty good insight as to what was generally wrong with voyager.

Voyager ranks about enterprise in my book, but it still has some of the worst episodes in ST, period.

I don't think it's irredeemably though.

In fact some of my absolute favorite star trek episodes are from voyager.

The Doctors is one of the best characters in ST, Chakotay tries really hard to be, but sort of failed when the writers didn't want to keep exploring the inter ship tension for more than a season or two.

So no I don't think voyager is "bad".

But Janeway sucks, Tuvok is a literal logic cuck (as in he throws out logic in favor of just bowing to Janeway even when she is demonstrably wrong) Harry Kim can't get a fucking break to save his life, which he's lost a few times in more ways than one.

Neelix is annoying 99% of the time aside from the only interesting episode where he has a crisis of faith.

The episode where Janeway demotes Tom Paris is just a total insult to anyone with brain cells.

Episodes like Threshold ruin star trek as a whole due to over powering holodecks capabilities and being stupid with warp travel.

Janeway has her moments, but it's usually by complete accident.

She's written as an egotistical know it all who thinks she has to always be the one to do something, and if someone else tries and steps in, she either punishes them or threatens them till they back off.

She even threatened to shut off the doctors programming during a crisis because he spoke his mind.

She's a psycho, and you can autistically screech about SF debris all you like, but he actually makes points against voyager, isn't that what you were whining about?

Seriously you can say something is bad and not have clarify, because it's an opinion you autistic tardo.

>>25199

Sorry I meant to say it ranks above enterprise.

Voyager has some "can't miss them" episodes, but as a series it's second worst over enterprise which is continuity breaking garbage.

Even this scene is hard to enjoy because of the context.

Janeway keeps rehashing if the doctor is sentient or not every 10 episodes even after deciding he is.

>>23992

Q2 rating: bad? It's an 8/10 episode, it's funny, entertaining, expands on Q lore, and makes us think Icheb was dead for good.

Bride of Chaotica - Rating: Great? It's a 2/10 episode, Photonic life forms thinking the hologram was real is utterly retarded.

>>25199

>Tuvok is a literal logic cuck (as in he throws out logic in favor of just bowing to Janeway even when she is demonstrably wrong)

Watch episode Prime Factors, Tuvoc goes against Janeway's back to make the trade for technology that could get them 40,000 light-years closer to home.

>>25219

It was an interesting twist on the usual Vulcan logic, I'll give them that–instead of the usual circlejerk over muh rational space elves it shows that being a cold, calculating machine has the potential to justify sociopathic behavior. A shame it's the episode that started the "giant reset button" trend in VOY, however.

>>25219

She took him back on the reservation pretty quickly though.

If that's the only example then I'm not surprised.

Everyone has gone against janeway at least once.

Not hard to see why either.

Only three characters on this show had good character arcs. Tom Paris, the doctor, and Lon Suder; and Suder only appeared in three episodes.

>>25298

Hey now, that's not fair–most of the other characters didn't even have arcs, so you can't call them bad.

>>25299

Most of the actors didn't even have characters

>>25199

>Neelix is annoying 99% of th…

I agree witth you that the Miles holo had the better loli threesome, but cannot go as far as you.

>>25304

very good. keep us updated, mr barclay

>>25460

maybe they wanted some visual indication that the borg's tech level had progressed a bit.

>>25472

it looks "ok" but how it acts annoys me

>make a hologram of the best leading exobiologist ever

>he's cardassian

>maquis go full chimp mode

>they want to destroy the hologram and delete all data on the guy

>muh 12 million bajorians

>>25473

Vaginers soul purpose was to further ruin the Borg

>>25497

I could tell