/strek/ - Star Trek

>>23976

>Namefag

>skullf*ck

Get the fuck out of here.

>>24001

>>24002

Well they are a good cure for constipation? Maybe that's what he meant?

>>24001

>>24002

/strek/ guide to ds9 when?

>>24012

/strek/ and imageboards in general favor a certain kind of autism, and with it completionism or maybe I'm just projecting, so I'm not sure how easily we could reliably create an episode guide encouraging viewers to skip around. There are a few skippable filler episodes ('Move Along Home' being the titular example) here and there, but by and large I'd encourage anons to watch the series all the way through, even the God-awful last season, if for no other reason than to understand why it deserves so much hate. Feel free to skip most of Season 7 on subsequent viewings, though.

>>24013

I'll attempt to start this list now, other anons feel free to chip in:

DS9 episodes that you can skip on first viewing. There are 'bad' episodes not included on this list that I feel have enough qualities to at least merit a first watch-through:

>Move Along Home

>Melora

>Playing God

>Fascination

>Past Tense

>Explorers

>Rejoined

>Bar Association

>The Muse

>Let He Who is Without Sin…

>Resurrection

>Far Beyond the Stars

>Profit and Lace

>Time's Orphan

>>23992

>Message in A Bottle

>The one where The Doctor goes on a field trip to the USS Prometheus

Not "The one where they made a gay EMH, and called it an improvement".

>>24014

Every Ferengi episode is entertaining, even if they're not plot-important. Quark is the third-best character in the show, so it tends to shine whenever he's on screen.

>>24016

>Every Ferengi episode is entertaining, even if they're not plot-important.

Agree completely, but I still had to put "Bar Assocation" in there because the lefty propaganda is just so cringy. Maybe "Profit and Lace" could be bumped from the do-not-watch to simply dishonorable mention, it's been a few years since I've seen it. Trap Quark does drag it down an awful lot, though.

>>24024

If possible we should take a survey of each episode, and try to get as many /strek/ users as possible to fill it out. There are quite a few episodes which people disagree on, so if we get a large population of /strek/ users we will be able to call episodes universally good if they meet a certain threshold of being liked, like 70%, maybe just even 50%. I think in order to add even more autism we should make this a weekly thing and vote for all episodes of one season each week. In just 7 weeks we would be able to cover any of the series. If we start with TOS and move all the way through Enterprise, this would be about 29 weeks, so we'll have enough data to make a comprehensive /strek/ approved list by February if we started now.

>>23927

>Also a huge sin committed by the writing crew was Ashes to Ashes - a couple of inconsequential references to the character that are buried in the minor minutiae of an episode does not make that character familiar in our minds, nor does it inspire the closeness to a character that is implied by the episode.

Honestly, when I read the teaser of "a dead crewmember comes back", I had fucking expected it to be the OG Harry Kim from this timeline.

Imagine that? A who's-the-real-Kim episode, a real conflict where the dead Kim feels replaced, and the living one doesn't know WHAT to do.

But noooo, we get some cunt they never even noticed. Not even someone who actually died ON screen.

>>24038

>Imagine that? A who's-the-real-Kim episode, a real conflict where the dead Kim feels replaced, and the living one doesn't know WHAT to do.

It would be a TNG plot rehash so its kinda surprising they didn't do it

>>24034

Honestly, this is a good idea. We can deal with making a list out of it later, after all the results are in, but a seperate thread with a weekly vote would be neat.

I put off watching Enterprise because Voyager was thoroughly unenjoyable and general consensus was that ENT<VOY. Years ago I tolerated 4 seasons of Voyager before I quit. (also watched the "important" episodes in seasons 5-7) Then a couple months ago, I started watching Enterprise and realized that many people have an insanely inflated regard for Voyager. It is objectively bad for all the reasons mentioned in OP. Enterprise, however, is great. Although Bakula as Archer was miscast and Mayweather is the most boring character in the history of Star Trek, ENT actually accomplishes something.

What even is the point of Voyager? TNG brought back the intrepid crew. DS9 explored the politics on the fringes of the Federation, Enterprise provided much needed foundation. I'd argue that Voyager has the most ambitious premise: survival in the face of impossible odds in a part of the galaxy that is uniquely treacherous. Yet, the stories and the day to day life of the crew do not reflect this burden. It's basically TNG-lite but in another quadrant. They do not act like a crew that is encumbered by the reality of their situation. Voyager promises so much but it fails to deliver on everything. If the premise had been similar to TNG, but about deep space exploration, I think the stories would have made more sense. Studio execs are mainly to blame. You just can't recreate the comradery and comfiness of TNG when the stakes are so fucking high.

>>24045

I agree, ENT is definitely far and away better than VOY. Fuck that series finale though.

>>24045

>You just can't recreate the comradery and comfiness of TNG when the stakes are so fucking high.

According to RD Moore at least, it originally wasn't supposed to rehash TNG. VOY became barely warmed over TNG2 because it might have thought it was a safe decision to do.

http://www.lcarscom.net/rdm1000118.htm

>Who judges if VOYAGER is working? Moore answers, "The audience is still watching VOYAGER. The ratings are down, but the ratings are down across television, in every category, on every network, and every program. As long as the studio believes that the franchise can make money, and that there is an audience there, they will continue to produce it. If they believe that it is seriously in great difficulty, Paramount will make changes. But each of us has to make our own judgement on what is good and bad. I know what I like in the series, and what I don’t like in the series. I don’t really care for where the franchise is now, where it’s going. It’s not about anything. It feels to me that it is a very content-free show. It’s not really speaking to the audience on any real level anymore. What’s happening is that it’s very superficial. It talks a good game. It talks about how it’s about deep social problems, and how it’s about sociological issues, and that it’s very relevant. It’s about exploration, and it’s about the unknown, and all these cute catch phrases, but scratch the surface of that and there is really not much underneath it all. VOYAGER doesn’t really believe in anything. The show doesn’t have a point of view that I can discern. It doesn’t have anything really to say. I truly believe it simply is just wandering around the galaxy. It doesn’t even really believe in its own central premise, which is to me its greatest flaw."

>Moore notes, "I’ve said this to Brannon for years, because he and I would talk about the show when it was first invented. I just don’t understand why it doesn’t even believe in itself. Examine the fundamental premise of VOYAGER. A starship chases a bunch of renegades. Both ships are flung to the opposite side of the galaxy. The renegades are forced to come aboard Voyager. They all have to live together on their way home, which is going to take a century or whatever they set up in the beginning. I thought, This is a good premise. That’s interesting. Get them away from all the familiar STAR TREK aliens, throw them out into a whole new section of space where anything can happen. Lots of situations for conflict among the crew. The premise has a lot of possibilities. Before it aired, I was at a convention in Pasadena, and [scenic illustrator, technical consultant Rick] Sternbach and [scenic art supervisor, technical consultant Michael] Okuda were on stage, and they were answering questions from the audience about the new ship. It was all very technical, and they were talking about the fact that in the premise this ship was going to have problems. It wasn’t going to have unlimited sources of energy. It wasn’t going to have all the doodads of the Enterprise. It was going to be rougher, fending for themselves more, having to trade to get supplies that they want. That didn’t happen. It doesn’t happen at all, and it’s a lie to the audience. I think the audience intuitively knows when something is true and something is not true. VOYAGER is not true. If it were true, the ship would not look spick-and-span every week, after all these battles it goes through. How many times has the bridge been destroyed? How many shuttlecrafts have vanished, and another one just comes out of the oven? That kind of bullshitting the audience I think takes its toll. At some point the audience stops taking it seriously, because they know that this is not really the way this would happen. These people wouldn’t act like this."

>>24045

I think that most people disregard ENT because it was a clusterfuck of plotholes and retcons. Really just standard prequel fare. It was also the least "original Trek", and ushered in the darker-and-edgier Nu Trek, so a lot of people blame it for making the JJ-verse possible.

Really, the biggest problem with VOY was also the biggest problem with TNG: it's too episodic. Aside from a few episodes here and there and the required season-ending-cliffhanger-two-parters, there are no overreaching plotlines. You can pick any episode out of a hat and watch it, and it's self-contained. Nothing ever changes from one season to the next, except maybe a cast member or two arrives or leaves, or someone changes their hairstyle.

But it's for this reason, also, that TNG and VOY were always the syndication champions, and DS9 and ENT less-so. Nobody wants to watch cable reruns if you're going to pop into the middle of a complicated plot and have no idea what the fuck is going on, because you haven't seen the previous episodes in years and forgot what happens. No, VOY is simple: if you remember the bare essentials of the plot, a little about who the characters are and what they do, you can pick up any episode and not be confused.

I have to believe that they intended this, to some point. It was a sign of the times. Modern shows can have overreaching plotlines because you can stream the whole season on Netflix or whatever, go back if you missed something. But back then, if you skipped an episode of DS9 in the middle of the Dominion War or whatever, you were right fucked unless you bought the DVD to see what you missed. People back then wanted a more "casual" show on first airing too, so they didn't have to stress about seeing every episode. MOST popular TV shows in the late 90's and early 00's were highly episodic like that.

>>24047

The supposed original plan has always surprised me because VOY seems tailor-made for an "X of the week" plot format, and the Maquis vs Feds conflict setup was DOA since all the characters are boring and have no real reason to fight. It was on UPN ffs, they were never going to do BSG meets TWD in the 90s.

I'd like to think it still could've worked because honestly TNG has the most ill-considered premise and character choices of them all, and talented writers still salvaged it from Gene's fits of madness. (This is why I have no hope for STD – someone could, conceivably, write a good story about Spock's long lost genderfluid negro sister, but they're never going to have that writer working for them, especially when they could defect to Team Orville)

>>24069

>The supposed original plan has always surprised me because VOY seems tailor-made for an "X of the week" plot format, and the Maquis vs Feds conflict setup was DOA since all the characters are boring and have no real reason to fight. It was on UPN ffs, they were never going to do BSG meets TWD in the 90s.

It's somewhere in that huge ass interview link, but the impression I got was RD Moore thought one thing in the beginning, B&B and the higher-ups had different plans or was simply phoning it in. Many of the people in the DS9 writing team saw the writing on the wall and passed on it.

> (This is why I have no hope for STD – someone could, conceivably, write a good story about Spock's long lost genderfluid negro sister, but they're never going to have that writer working for them, especially when they could defect to Team Orville)

Yep. And why the fuck would they, STD from what I see has very poor reaction among trek fans, and I doubt that reaction will transform the way TOS to later seasons of TNG. I know one of my friends actually watches STD, but he is strictly .45 casull with trek in general, and he will never ever buy into whatever that fuck pay streaming option that cbs is peddling. He watched it on the digital high seas. So cbs did snag some casual market that for some reason it wants to chase, who will also never throw in a red cent their way because even most casuals won't fucking buy it. Good jerb cbs. Slow fugging clap all around.

Ok op. I know I shouldn't do this. But I am goo g to rewatch voy now too. Might as well ive cycled through the rest of the series twice now and haven't watched it all the way through but once, and that was 5 years back.

So yeah. Let's bring the pain.

I'm doing it.

>farscape

>bad

I bet you think starhunter was bad too huh faggot i bet you think lexx was bad you fucking i bet you think firefly was gayfagot i will fucking i bet yo

>>23811

>Which VOY episode is the worst?

Twisted & Threshold

>>23804

>Vid related contains all the Voyager anyone needs to watch.

By the way, OP, if you're taking suggestions on strek related topics have you tried watching Enterprise whilst punching yourself repeatedly in the balls? It really enhances the experience.

>>24047

Voyager was better than nuBSG, so even if it was an episodic shit show with awful characters it was still better than RDM’s trainwreck.

>>23929

>I was never interested in these characters.

Okay, I think we found your problem. The entire series is about Neelix/Kes, and Neelix/Naiomi after Kes hits puberty. The series only exists because the person who played Janeway once played Colombo's twelve-year-old-wife.

Basically, like the ending of Gay Niggers from Outer Space, Naiomi was the captain, but Earth wasn't ready for that. So… of course you missed everything, you don't know what's really going on.

>>23897

>SF debris is just memes and irrational hate

Really?

Because I thought he had some pretty good insight as to what was generally wrong with voyager.

Voyager ranks about enterprise in my book, but it still has some of the worst episodes in ST, period.

I don't think it's irredeemably though.

In fact some of my absolute favorite star trek episodes are from voyager.

The Doctors is one of the best characters in ST, Chakotay tries really hard to be, but sort of failed when the writers didn't want to keep exploring the inter ship tension for more than a season or two.

So no I don't think voyager is "bad".

But Janeway sucks, Tuvok is a literal logic cuck (as in he throws out logic in favor of just bowing to Janeway even when she is demonstrably wrong) Harry Kim can't get a fucking break to save his life, which he's lost a few times in more ways than one.

Neelix is annoying 99% of the time aside from the only interesting episode where he has a crisis of faith.

The episode where Janeway demotes Tom Paris is just a total insult to anyone with brain cells.

Episodes like Threshold ruin star trek as a whole due to over powering holodecks capabilities and being stupid with warp travel.

Janeway has her moments, but it's usually by complete accident.

She's written as an egotistical know it all who thinks she has to always be the one to do something, and if someone else tries and steps in, she either punishes them or threatens them till they back off.

She even threatened to shut off the doctors programming during a crisis because he spoke his mind.

She's a psycho, and you can autistically screech about SF debris all you like, but he actually makes points against voyager, isn't that what you were whining about?

Seriously you can say something is bad and not have clarify, because it's an opinion you autistic tardo.

>>25199

Sorry I meant to say it ranks above enterprise.

Voyager has some "can't miss them" episodes, but as a series it's second worst over enterprise which is continuity breaking garbage.

Even this scene is hard to enjoy because of the context.

Janeway keeps rehashing if the doctor is sentient or not every 10 episodes even after deciding he is.

>>23992

Q2 rating: bad? It's an 8/10 episode, it's funny, entertaining, expands on Q lore, and makes us think Icheb was dead for good.

Bride of Chaotica - Rating: Great? It's a 2/10 episode, Photonic life forms thinking the hologram was real is utterly retarded.

>>25199

>Tuvok is a literal logic cuck (as in he throws out logic in favor of just bowing to Janeway even when she is demonstrably wrong)

Watch episode Prime Factors, Tuvoc goes against Janeway's back to make the trade for technology that could get them 40,000 light-years closer to home.

>>25219

It was an interesting twist on the usual Vulcan logic, I'll give them that–instead of the usual circlejerk over muh rational space elves it shows that being a cold, calculating machine has the potential to justify sociopathic behavior. A shame it's the episode that started the "giant reset button" trend in VOY, however.

>>25219

She took him back on the reservation pretty quickly though.

If that's the only example then I'm not surprised.

Everyone has gone against janeway at least once.

Not hard to see why either.

Only three characters on this show had good character arcs. Tom Paris, the doctor, and Lon Suder; and Suder only appeared in three episodes.

>>25298

Hey now, that's not fair–most of the other characters didn't even have arcs, so you can't call them bad.

>>25299

Most of the actors didn't even have characters

>>25199

>Neelix is annoying 99% of th…

I agree witth you that the Miles holo had the better loli threesome, but cannot go as far as you.

>>25304

very good. keep us updated, mr barclay

>>25460

maybe they wanted some visual indication that the borg's tech level had progressed a bit.

>>25472

it looks "ok" but how it acts annoys me

>make a hologram of the best leading exobiologist ever

>he's cardassian

>maquis go full chimp mode

>they want to destroy the hologram and delete all data on the guy

>muh 12 million bajorians

>>25473

Vaginers soul purpose was to further ruin the Borg

>>25497

I could tell