d88684 No.17775 [View All]
What is /strek/'s take on The Expanse and the book series its based on?
The villians logic.
The tech.
The ships.
The deliberately turning scientists into high functioning sociopaths to avoid moral scruples with their work.
The politics between belters, Mars and Earth.
____________________________
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a27c49 No.26864
>>26853
him actually he's the most believable I suppose.
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635852 No.26878
>>26729
>>26750
>>26747
>>26751
>im dumb and dont understand science therefore this isnt hard scifi
What the fuck kind of argument is that?
Non-humanoid aliens are #1 sign of hard scifi. Having all humanoid aliens be humans (genetically engineered) is even harder.
The progenitor shit was just covering their ass 40 years after people started complaining, also they clearly had various species evolve from things Klingons evolve out of Predator from AVP in the show as part of established canon, the explanation doesn't even make sense.
>>26786
>There's a reason warm-blooded bipeds with opposable thumbs became the dominant species in our biosphere
No there isn't. Literally any grasping appendage will do, or even no grasping appendage, as a ridiculous number of semi-intelligent species on earth show. Elephants manipulate with prehensile noses, octopi do it with their bodies and tentacles, crows manipulate with their beaks and tongues, dolphins have fuckall but their sound waves, portia spiders are quite intelligent and look nothing like us, bees can remember human faces, even ants pass the mirror test while niggers cant.
Failing to imagine a species that can be spacefaring but doesn't look like us isn't my problem, it's yours.
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331d8a No.26880
>>26878
The soft/hard sci-fi scale is about how well the fictional universe matches the real one in terms of the laws of physics.
Sure, Farscape's aliens are non-humanoid. But Farscape also has multiple forms of FTL travel, telepathy, telekinesis, spaceships that don't coast, instant DNA rewriting machines, embiggening/enshrinkening machines, enstoning/destoning machines, translator microbes, living starships, interdimensional travel, time travel, and frickin' artificial wormholes. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Don't try to handwave away this with Clarke's third law, a lot of this stuff really is straight-up magic if our understanding of the laws of physics is anywhere close to being accurate. A single hard sci-fi aspect like "non humanoid aliens" does not equate to "the show itself is all hard sci-fi.
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37aa8f No.26884
>>26878
>as a ridiculous number of semi-intelligent species on earth show.
There's more to being spacefaring than intelligence. In order to become a dominant species a species needs to be able to use tools, for which you'll need opposable thumbs or a similar appendage that offers fine precision; trunks can grasp things but they can't make tools. It also needs to be a mammal, or at the very least warm-blooded and k-selected, to develop the intelligence necessary for low time-preference. It needs to be a land animal, because without fire advancement to dominant species would be near impossible. So, what are the possible evolutionary paths through which a mammalian, land-dwelling animal may develop grasping appendages? Because natural selection must take a step "sideways" before going "forwards," there must necessarily be an existing appendage that gets adapted into a grasper over generations. As mentioned before, trunks don't have the fine motor skill to be used as a grasper, and as they're all muscle there's no real evolutionary path to fingers being developed. A prehensile, skeletal tail has slightly better potential but compared to an already-developed limb it's still effectively nothing. Therefore, the best candidate for a grasper by an overwhelming margin is a leg that becomes an arm. Large animals don't lend themselves very well to having more than four legs–it's just another point complexity, another point of failure and takes a lot more energy to grow–so it's safe to assume the starting precursor animal will be a quadruped. A quadruped adapting two of its legs to arms necessarily becomes a biped. A creature with a large enough brain to become dominant cannot afford to waste large amounts of energy digesting food, so it must be capable of hunting and consuming meat, with the forward-facing facial features that that implies.
Because of all these biological necessities, I am led to believe that any space-faring species we encounter would look at least kind of like us, instead of reinventing the evolutionary wheel. Now, if there was a very different biosphere that had very different successful strategies, could a different path be taken? Possibly–I won't rule it out entirely–but whatever comes out the other side would in that case be completely incomprehensible to us, and wouldn't remotely resemble humans or any other creature found on earth. Therefore, any nonhumanoid intelligent species that resembles something on Earth would also be soft sci-fi.
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635852 No.26899
>>26880
In a comparison of Trek and Farscape, these things don't count against Farscape because Trek also has them:
>multiple forms of FTL travel
>telepathy
>telekinesis
>spaceships that don't coast
>embiggening/enshrinkening machines
>enstoning/destoning machines
>interdimensional travel
>time travel
>artificial wormholes
And these things count FOR Farscape because they're harder scifi than Trek:
>instant DNA rewriting machines
>translator microbes
>living starships
…. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
>>26884
I don't have time to explain it right now (I'll do it after work), but an alien doesn't need to have the ability to use a set of pliers to build a starship, tools are created to fit the species using them. Your fallacy is in spending your entire life seeing tools designed for humans and then just solidifying the term "tool" into a category that only contains human tools, assuming that any other kind of tool is impossible and lacking the imagination to think of such.
Any intelligent animal can build a starship as long a steady progression could be created from simpler to more complex tools. Hell an non-moving sedentary !immobile herbaceous shrub! could build a starship, as long as it could trick or train some animals or insects with simple reward system into doing complex tasks for it. Plants already trick animals into eating their fruit and shitting it out miles away essentially in a pile of fertilizer to jumpstart growth, or tricking animals into carrying plant sperm on them so they can impregnate other plants.
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58c361 No.26904
>>26878
>octopi
clearly a moron
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8466b5 No.26906
>>26880
>Don't try to handwave away this with Clarke's third law
Clarke's third law is practically the definition of soft sci-fi. If you have to invoke it to explain something major, it's definitely soft. The heavier the sci, the harder it is. If it's heavy on the fi and has to use Clarke's law often, it's soft.
>>26899
No, those things are still soft sci-fi. What about this aren't you getting? Try reading Rendezvous With Rama, and then tell me Farscape is hard sci-fi. Sure, there is bound to be a tiny difference relatively speaking, but that's like saying a glass of water got more viscous because you dissolved a single granule of sugar in it.
>>26904
Yeah he made a rookie mistake. IIRC the proper plural in the original Greek is octopudes. The proper English pluralization is octopuses.
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331d8a No.26910
>>26899
Oh my god dude, just admit that you don't know what you're talking about. Farscape is about as hard sci-fi as fucking Rick and Morty. Live with it.
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30f999 No.26914
Are people ITT really claiming that fucking Farscape out of all things is harder SciFi than Expanse????!!
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a27c49 No.26917
actually I just think to my self "what does alien eat" and if I can answer that I move onto the next simple question. "how do alien poop" "does it sensors make sense in the kinda environment it's race evolved in" "can it pick up a stick". I could go on.
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635852 No.26922
>>26906
HARDER THAN TREK faggot quit dealing in absolutes.
>>26910
Solid argument.
>>26914
No.
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635852 No.26923
>>26904
Wow an even better argument. What will I do now?
http://grammarist.com/usage/octopi-octopuses/
>Still, while the use of octopi can’t be justified on an etymological basis, it is not wrong. It is old enough and common enough to be considered an accepted variant.
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151c30 No.27939
So is this show worth watching?
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9e020e No.27943
>>27939
The Expanse? Sure. It's a refreshing take on the space opera genre. Good acting, good writing, good visual effects used appropriately to flesh out the story. It's not bad at all.
Farscape? Hell fucking yes. It's a rollercoaster ride to nightmare space crazytown and it's fucking awesome.
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801a1c No.27947
>>27943
I find the acting in The Expanse to be mediocre at best. A lot of it is compensated by the story and the special effects. It's certainly not the actors who carry this show.
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9387f8 No.27961
>>27947
For a TV show full of no-names, it's decent enough acting. Nobody's going to win an award, but it's not bad enough to ruin the show for me.
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9ebbcd No.27962
>>27947
Pretty sure the Indian woman has been in a lot of things and some of the other older actors.
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801a1c No.27982
>>27962
She plays an Indian but she is from Iran who fled the country when the Shah was exiled. And yeah, she is also the best one. Also the guy who plays Miller (forgot his name). The rest is pretty fucking lukewarm though.
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46369b No.27993
>>27943
>refreshing take
It has been done to death on TV screens before, and even more so in literary format.
>Good acting
Is this a joke? It looks like a high-school drama play because none of the actors have any talent or experience at acting. They had a fuckload of actors to pick from, and they picked the youngest least experienced ones. Why is no one in the cast over 40? The book specifically says the sandnigger is in mid 40s, yet they picked a 27 year old actor to play him.
It's intentionally bad.
So you will get used to paying good-shit prices for bad-shit, which is cheaper to make, ergo making a profit for some jew somewhere.
>good visual effects
Puhlease, EvE Online has better visual effects, hell Homeworld has better visual effects. Due to low polygon count the ships have no wear, which makes them look like from an early 2000s video game. Scratch that, even early 2000s video games knew that SOLID BLUE FILTERS DISCONNECT THE VIEWER FROM THE SCENE.
And don't even get me started on the sets or makeup. Everyone, especially the negress spacegirl, was supposed to be bald, because hair interferes with any kind of space suit gear. But she just had to git ma hurr did so we're stuck with some retarded rooster crest waving onscreen.
Do not ever speak about the Expanded Anus in positive terms around me again, I will reach through this TCP/IP connection and slap your retard ass.
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9e020e No.28006
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8115d2 No.28007
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5b43d9 No.28008
>>27947
Mostly agree but even with mediocre acting it's good enough to watch.
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e22570 No.28011
>>26878
Just stopped by to say dolphins have prehensile dicks that they grab stuff with
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8466b5 No.28036
>>28011
Yeah, and female dolphins have prehensile cunts they can grab stuff with. They say if you want to fuck a female dolphin, just stick your dick in and let her take care of everything else.
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b34599 No.28039
>>28036
If only it was as easy as that with women!
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5633e7 No.28108
Why is this thread about dolphin mating?
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0b92cc No.28364
>>28108
Welcome to /strek/?
Anyway do you think there will be another Expanse series at all or are they done?
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43dee3 No.28942
>>28039
It is. But with women the cops always show up when they start squealing, nobody cares about dolphins though.
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86e373 No.28948
>>28942
It's only rape when she changes her mind.
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b3ac9e No.28955
Still don't get why /strek/ dislikes this show.
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43dee3 No.28957
>>28955
>why don't they like the show
Because it isn't Star Trek, seriously though probably for the same reason people who love (not like) LotR don't care for Game of Thrones.
I've met boomer trekkies who still only consider TOS cannon, as if their personal tastes matter.
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798f4e No.29023
>>28957
>people who love (not like) LotR don't care for Game of Thrones.
People who develop a strongly positive emotional connection to a given thing will tend to dislike its antithesis? Fascinating..
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7535a3 No.29039
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2acbe3 No.29060
>>28957
>people who love (not like) LotR don't care for Game of Thrones
I dunno, I think GoT would be awesome with a little Gandalf.
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43dee3 No.29061
>>29060
It wouldn't hurt, I'm trying to imagine how I would insert him.
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6984f1 No.29130
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a16a12 No.30357
Did this show end or get cancelled?
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5e5b0a No.30987
>>30357
It failed because it's:
A) Not interesting
B) Has badly written characters, plot, and setting
C) Pretends to be realistic to get the dumb person pretending to be smart audience
D) It's basically black hole theory version of star trek
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245299 No.30990
>>30357
No, it's coming this year on Amazon Prime.
>>30987
>Not interesting
How is it not interesting? It explores solar system politics and hard sci-fi concepts while dealing with a grim-dark alien presence lurking behind everything with unknown implications.
>Has badly written characters, plot, and setting
1. I agree Holden, the Asian dude and Naomi are a bit vanilla, but the rest are absolutely fucking entertaining characters.
2. The plot isn't bad. It's laid out on a series of books and planned from the beginning, it dives deep into interplanetary conflict.
3. How the fucking is the setting bad?!! It's sets are absolutely beautiful.
>Pretends to be realistic to get the dumb person pretending to be smart audience
You don't have to watch it because of "I fucking love science". The fact it actually tries to be realistic instead of giving up any such notion as a premise is now a bad thing? That's not what carries the show anyway, and it's not supposed to. It's a character, plot and exploration driven space opera.
>It's basically black hole theory version of star trek
No.
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32ce6c No.30992
>>30987
It's a good show but it has the same issues as Game of Thrones: there are too many characters and so little time to allow them to grow.
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5e5b0a No.31006
>>30990
>How is it not interesting?
>Holden, the Asian dude and Naomi are a bit vanilla
Those are the main characters, you just answered your question. The other characters might not be "vanilla", but they are undeveloped in the story arc, they're ornamental peacocks meant to strut in and grab your attention for a second before leaping back out of the story.
As for the science… it itself isn't the focus, the point I'm making is not that scifi even hinges on science, but that this story PRETENDS to be realistic. That's the bad part, the pretending, not the science. A good scifi is generally a drama or a tragedy written in the classical sense with character development driving the story, the science is the setting of the scifi, it's not the content itself. This show basically has no story arcs in it, the science is the story, and it's crappy nuscience to start with. If your response to "the setting is bad" is "how the fucking is the setting bad?!! It's sets are absolutely beautiful" you may want to look up what "setting" means in terms of story, because that was fucking embarrassing.
>It's a character, plot and exploration driven space opera.
The only way you could possibly say this is if you've never read a space opera. Mostly I feel bad for you because you've clearly been deprived of the best scifi has to offer… but I'm a bit annoyed that you're calling a prius a sports car. Read this:
https://www.amazon.com/Praxis-Dead-Empires-Fall/dp/0743461118/
Then compare it to Duh Espans.
>>30992
The book itself was badly written, only a very good director could have made it work on screen.
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43df83 No.31044
>>26724
>sliders
>hard scifi
>objectively better than Trek or Swars.
if sliders didn't do an episode where magic is literally real, I'm honestly surprised
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43dee3 No.31973
>>27962
The Punisher and Xmen 3
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69c7b0 No.31974
>>17775
IT would be good without the agenda pushing.
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430b01 No.31982
>>31974
What agenda do they push?
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dd98f1 No.32058
>>31982
They pushed the usual diversity bullshit over producing a good show.
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03b89e No.33518
>>30992
>It's a good show but it has the same issues as Game of Thrones:
and It solves this problem the same way Game of Thrones did too: kills them.
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85d03d No.33526
>>33518
Yeah, I don't like how they handled Ashford this season.
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f0a419 No.33529
>>33526
He was my favorite character, but aside from that it was an idiotic choice from a narrative perspective. What will be the internal source of conflict for the Belters still in the Sol System? Probably Drummer vs Inaros.
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700aeb No.33672
>>33518
Every season of The Expanse they kill off the best character, it is tradition now.
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