/strek/ - Star Trek

I think the thumb trigger is the strangest thing about the TNG phaser. Wouldn't that make it more awkward to aim straight?

>stre/k/ discussion

This thread has been long overdue.

>>14063

Rottenberry didn't want guns. Also apparently these weapons don't have recoil so….?

>>14064

Not having a tight grip on the handle will still make your aim wobbly, I would assume.

>>14060

>Type one phaser is capable of disintegrating people

>Star Fleet says "nah, this isn't enough for a sidearm; we need something more powerful"

What the fuck does the admiralty think their officers are up against? Are they trying to make sure every soldier can shoot a warbird out of orbit if necessary?

>>14066

I'm pretty sure there was a DS9 episode where Worf talked about why he prefered the mek'leth because the bat'leth's size makes warriors overconfident. I guess he started out as a weeaboo but eventually realised he doesn't have to like things just becuase other Klingons do.

>>14060

Word was all about the nekleth in DS9. He even preaches the wonders of the nekleth to fellow klingaboo Jadzia.

>>14075

Worf*

I don't know why I insist on phoneposting from the toilet.

>Federation has a ban on nuclear weapons, yet has sidearms which can melt somone so hard they merge with steel

phasers are amazing but entirely retarded

>>14080

>Space Monsters

>Space Hippies

I don't think the Federation is armed enough for such a horror.

>>14078

To be fair. We have similarly arbitrary rules today. No gas attacks, but drop white phosphorous all you like.

>>14082

>but drop white phosphorous all you like.

Actually we have rules against that as well. Just nobody really abides by them

>>14084

>Just nobody really abides by them

Oh, no, everybody is very serious about the rules regarding WP. The rules are very clear "You may not use WP as a weapon, you may only use it to create a smokescreen in-front of the enemy", now, it may be the case that (for any number of reasons) the WP 'smoke' shells *accidentally* overshoot and land on the enemy - burning and poisoning them - these are entirely unfortunate accidents, and no lawyer can prove otherwise. : ^ )

>>14093

>The D'Ktagh seems more a klingon version of the fairbairn sykes dagger with added spikes.

*or a ka-bar style combat knife.

>>14095

Logic bombs are potential genocide weapons. Not even Israel would dare to use one, or even just admit to possessing one, if there was a significant AI population in the real world. Because the only feasible reaction to a weapon that could wipe out your whole population would be a first strike against whoever wields it. There is no point in trying to appease someone who is going to kill you anyway.

>>14098

Whole reason why nobody would dare invade Australia, they've managed to weaponize logic bombs.

>>14063

That always made me REEEEEEE. Even before I got into guns, I realized that pushing your thumb down on top of the thing would shift your point of aim. Then again, due to the added-in-post nature of phaser beams, they always seemed to come off the weapon and a weird angle, like they have some kind of magic targeting wizard inside that reads your mind to know where you want to shoot and corrects the aim as long as you're pointing at roughly the correct quadrant.

>>14064

>apparently these weapons don't have recoil so….?

That's not really the issue. There are several problems with it; one is the accuracy problem mentioned above, but there's also the fact that the button which fires your deadly, capable-of-disintegrating-several-tons-of-rock-let-alone-a-vital-ship-system weapon is exposed to easily get bumped. In fact, the way they wear the things, ALL the control buttons, including the safety/setting controls, are pointing outward on their hips. The only reason they aren't constantly destroying their own ships by accidentally dialing it up to 14 and firing whenever they lean against something is the script.

Then there's the fact that it takes several seconds of fiddling with them to dial in the appropriate setting, precluding their successful use as defensive weapons.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any Star Trek culture that has sensible ranged weapon designs. They all trade in basic safety and functionality for sleek futuristic bullshit. Even the pistol-shaped Type 2s pretty much never have a trigger guard. The shame is that there are ways to have both, but the designers are all Joosians who haven't put the slightest bit of thought into sensible weapon design.

>>14074

>Are they trying to make sure every soldier can shoot a warbird out of orbit if necessary?

Can you imagine if Starfleet put this capability to any sensible use?

>Sir, we're surrounded by Klingons! They're taking cover behind all these chest-high set pieces!

>So, dial your phasers up to 14; vaporize their cover and anything behind it for 15 meters.

>problemsolvedinstantly.holodeck

>>14153

>Second question: How the heck are you supposed to use a Bat'leth, anyway? No seriously, where is the manual of arms for this thing?

Using it like some awkward fighting staff is the only reasonable thing I can come up with

I never saw the Bat'leth as being a practical weapon, but purely ceremonial and traditional. Kinda like how samurai still carried katanas even though everyone had rifles.

>Phasers would function better as two-handed weapons but nobody uses them that way

>>14098

>Logic bombs are potential genocide weapons. Not even Israel would dare to use one, or even just admit to possessing one, if there was a significant AI population in the real world.

Hmm, in most trek settings I can imagine why even the Feds would have dabbled in them though. The Borgs are dangerous and numerous. Some AIs do not have Borg numbers but they can be just as if not more dangerous.

>>14114

They're weak against bioweapons, just beam down a bunch of emus.

>>14150

As the other anon said they TNG thumb trigger phaser designs really do look like dustbusters, and probably aims just as well. If I were to redesign it I'd probably put in some sort of sights to aim even rudimentary ones, or a crimson trace laser system. >which fires your deadly, capable-of-disintegrating-several-tons-of-rock-let-alone-a-vital-ship-system weapon is exposed to easily get bumped.

Yeah the lack of trigger guards in many of the designs are pretty bad. If I had to do an in universe lore justification I'd have to do gymnastics to come up with say, maybe it's a two process activation, you need to push in the thumb trigger as a crude "safety", then while still pushing down push forward to actually fire the beam. There's only so much you can do when hoplophobic fucks runs the design decisions I guess.

>>14153

>Second question: How the heck are you supposed to use a Bat'leth, anyway? No seriously, where is the manual of arms for this thing?

In addition to >>14156 and >>14157. Storywise it gives me the impression that it's similar to muh katana. Practice wise, it's closer to an axe. The Mek'leth and the D'tagh looks a lot more practical.

>>14167

>The Mek'leth and the D'tagh looks a lot more practical.

In comparison to the batleth I mean.

I always wondered why there wasn't a two man bridge crew? If there was more people on the bridge then if the ship explodes in a high risk operation more people would die.

How to batleth. I watched several videos in this series once. If you are a klingaboo you will love watching this autist swing his foam batleth around.

>>14172

I've always wondered why they didn't put the bridge deep inside the ship instead of exposed somewhere. They have teleporters; surely they can install some goddamn cameras on the hull instead of giant fucking WINDOWS.

>>14178

Everything I've seen in the series is a lot of theatrical swinging around and posturing. It's basically vid related.

>>14172

i think, its that a number of centralised command and ship control decisions are made in voice and earshot of the commanding officer, should comms go down

>>14196

i suppose if all the sensors and cameras go or( are blocked, as they are every bloody week) theres at least a chance they might see something

>>14196

>Everything I've seen in the series is a lot of theatrical swinging around and posturing. It's basically vid related.

It's not a practical weapon anyway. There is no way to use it that isn't swinging it around and posturing.

>>14206

Isn't that the Klingon way? It isn't about the fighting, rather the honor of the fighting. Perhaps being super flashy is considered more honorable than piercing your enemies back with a D'Ktagh

I wonder what are traditional Terran Swolempire Weapons?

>>14212

>Isn't that the Klingon way?

It sounds more like the Klingaboo way. TNG era Worf iirc mostly had him practicing in the holodeck and winning batleth tournaments sure. But it wasn't until DS9 and First Contact era if I remember right when the batleth was at least shown in a more open area where it'd be more plausible to see it used in that environment.

>Perhaps being super flashy is considered more honorable than piercing your enemies back with a D'Ktagh

Gowron seems to fucking love going straight for his D'ktagh with that crazy eyes look and throwing down a

>CHALLENGE ME I'LL CUT YOU RIGHT HERE YOU P'TAK

Which admittedly has it's own crazy charms.

Though even with the one handed bladed weapons the Klingons afaik usually still pair it with a disruptor pistol.

>>14213

>I wonder what are traditional Terran Swolempire Weapons?

I'd hope for something a lot more practical designed, ranged weapons would have trigger guards for example. Made to withstand rough handling, perhaps even ditch the multiple levels of stun to max. Keep shit simple yet elegantly brutal.

Same for their melee weapons, I want to see them be constructed quite well without too much doohikeys sticking out and snagging everywhere, strongly constructed to withstand swole use. I'd hope not too overly heavy unbalanced or cumbersome either, speed and controllability should be prioritized just as much the swole factor.

If that's too nancy fancypants. Then go for simple and brutal. A solid steel shank dagger, heavy chopping bowie and bolo style long knives\machetes. Modern tomahawks of one piece construction made out of ordnance grade duranium alloy, that can do double duty as melee weapon and breaching tool.

>>14150

>Off the top of my head, I can't think of any Star Trek culture that has sensible ranged weapon designs.

I thought about it some more, and the Jem'Hadar rifles have sensible guards. Their rifles aren't the most compact and the balance looks bad, but their rifles and pistols both have pistol-style grips and trigger guards (full hand guards, really, but it's better than nothing).

Come to think of it, the Bajoran phasers have a similar hand guard. Comparing their pistols and rifles side-by-side, they share a few design similarities. The Jem'Hadar weapons are better, but the Bajoran weapons aren't pants-on-head retarded like Feddie, Klingon, and Cardassian weapons are.

I am just wondering did Rhodesia ever fall in the Star Trek timeline?

>>14232

Probably destroyed in the Eugenics Wars in the 90s.

>>14232

It is a h'white country, of course it got destroyed.

>>14228

>Bajoran DS9 era might be something akin to early Israeli small arms mindset and designs. I'd have no major qualms in picking up a Bajoran carbine, SBR or pdw tbh.

>inb4 I'm accused of falling for the spehs TAVOR maymay.

But do they have built-in bottle openers like the Galil? And would an anthropomorphized version still be a cute dog girl?

>>14060

>What phaser rifles would you like to have.

The kind that shoot bullets because the guns in Star Trek suck ass.

Seriously, you can take a hit from a phaser on kill to the center of your chest and walk it off as long as you have your name in the credits. Meanwhile, some poor goldshirt gets tapped on the shoulder by a rock from one of those exploding consoles and giant gash will suddenly appear on the opposite side of his neck.

>>14315

>The kind that shoot bullets because the guns in Star Trek suck ass.

Then you might be interested in the wrist mounted machinegun in TNG era, or the TR-116 rifle from DS9 era. We'll leave out existing historical firearms that presumably can be made with a replicator, ie 1911 and thompson SMG that etc.

>Seriously, you can take a hit from a phaser on kill to the center of your chest and walk it off as long as you have your name in the credits. Meanwhile, some poor goldshirt gets tapped on the shoulder by a rock from one of those exploding consoles and giant gash will suddenly appear on the opposite side of his neck.

Plot armor is tougher than level IV body armor I guess. The most dangerous place for a non main cast character is near a console. Doesn't appear to have a fail safe system such as a fusebox, when it explodes during an attack it can go off like a small IED. Has there been a planetary class action suit against Utopia Planetia or whoever outsourced the labor in making Fed ship console displays?

Phasers were always held to a near planetkiller level in the lore, but did jack shit on screen. I want Cardassians and Humans to be blowing huge ass chunks out of advancing infantry damn it. Cardasssians could develop spoon covers and deflect the phaser beam back at the feddies like a soccer player hitting the ball back with his head.

>>14351

Wasn't there even a mortar in one episode?

>>14356

Yep. It was the Gorn episode. Kirk ran into a crater, got a case of blue balls, then blew up a mountain.

>>14368

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9py5EdVJdbo

A hand grenade with the yield of a nuke. I can see why these weren't used very often on the ship.

>>14379

Teeny toes challenge the mortar also why are you not embedding?

>>14379

Star Trek has ridiculous scales of firepower that writers seem to forget about all the time.

>>14506

Pretty sure that Elite Force isn't canon. Even if it would have improved Voyager significantly.

>>14153

i guess you are supposed to charge at closest enemy with it. just ram the fucker when holding it

>>14506

Why not?

>>14167

>They're weak against bioweapons, just beam down a bunch of emus.

Gave me a chuckle

>>14348

It would suck if the rock consisted of something very combustible, see SG1 using Naquadah nukes on planets with Naquadah mines.

Phasers with stun settings should have two triggers, imo.

>Main kill trigger for index finger

>Stun thumb trigger to allow for prisoner capture and that rare tactical moments advantage

Weapon of choice for /strek/?

Muscles?

>>14815

Roid Rage.

>>14815

I'm not going to speak for all of /strek/, for myself if I'm ever in the trek universe. I'd like to be something of a pirat I mean galactic outdoorsman explorer.

Armament wise, probably something like a classic klingon carry. Direct energy pistol of some sort along with a one handed melee tool.

>>14586

>implying that Insurrection is cannon

What about photon torpedos? I prefer the ship-based weapons.

>>15073

I wish we got more discussion on that subject.

>>15087

Supposedly they are more efficient and powerful than phasers although phasers are more like a swiss army knife of energy based weapons while disruptors are like an axe.

>>15073

>What about photon torpedos? I prefer the ship-based weapons.

>>15090

>I wish we got more discussion on that subject.

Then discuss away. What are the advantages and disadvantages of manually loading torpedos vs automated loading system aboard various ships in trek.

Ship to ship combat seems to be a mix and varies between submarine or space battleship to gunboat. Is the use of individually piloted fighters aboard a carrier too militaristic for the Feds or trek in general, was it considered too dangerous after the hothead hotshot cadet incident of Nova Squadron?

>>15104

Honestly I have no idea what the fuck Trek combat is meant to be at times. In general I like to consider Starfleet Battles method of combat somewhat canon with warfare sort of like old school WW2 warship combat. Keeps thing simple and DS9 did screw the pooch with combat a little going for looks over substance

>>15104

>>15106

All ship combat in Trek is based on naval warfare (a bit like how in Wars it's all based on aerial warfare) and as such never takes advantage of the kind of real-world physics as would be involved in an actual battle in microgravity. The way their ships even MOVE is a violation of physics, how they'll coast to a stop if you turn off the engines. They always have to fly AROUND to attack someone following them, when in reality a single puff from a thruster mounted horizontally on the nose would spin a small craft like the Defiant around like a top, and they could then shoot directly at whoever was following them. In a similar vein, the Enterprise has to rise so it can shoot straight forward at Khan, instead of just… I dunno, pitching along the center axis and shooting UP?

I figure they do this because the audience is typically woefully ignorant of what movement is like in space, and expects everything to move like boats or airplanes.

Can you imagine if the Borg subverted this? Fill every cube with bunches of teeny, remote-controlled fighters with thrusters on all sides, that can whizz around and change direction immediately so you could never even hope to get a weapon's lock. Imagine a cube opening up and THOUSANDS of these things pouring out like a swarm of goddamn mechanical cuboid bees that dodge every attempt to swat them? They wouldn't even need to have weapons on them; just ram the enemy ships until their shields go down via death-by-a-thousand-cuts. It would be FUCKING TERRIFYING.

>>15149

> Fill every cube with bunches of teeny, remote-controlled fighters with thrusters on all sides, that can whizz around and change direction immediately so you could never even hope to get a weapon's lock. Imagine a cube opening up and THOUSANDS of these things pouring out like a swarm of goddamn mechanical cuboid bees that dodge every attempt to swat them?

Didn't the last JewJewTrek film do this?

>>15191

I don't know. I stopped watching halfway through "I Can't Believe It's Not Khan" and refused to watch anymore of the series. The trailer which made it look like Fast And The Furious 27: In Space This Time! didn't do anything change my mind.

>>15248

Yep, hand phasers have a wide beam setting for maximum carnage.

>>15395

>Imagine the USA except every single gun can knock over an entire building with a single shot

>A mass-shooting would end up leveling a city and killing hundreds of thousands

Either the Feds revoked the 2nd Amendment before phasers were invented, or things aren't as happy in paradise as they want you to believe.

>>15397

From what I've seen, rights in the Federation work like rights in the UN. Yeah, the UN has a giant list of human rights, but they also are allowed to take them away as they see fit.

In the USA, our rights are given to us by God, and the government just acknowledges them. In the UN/Federation they are given by the government, and can be taken away by the government. I seem to remember a few times where Federation goons come for someone, and they're all like, "I have rights!" and the goons tell them to STFU and stop resisting.

>>15412

>and the government just acknowledges them

I'd like it to be true too anon, but you don't seriously believe this is true right?

>>15414

Yes and no. Some rights can only truly taken away in death. I.e. the unalienable rights. Other than that, the difference is largely philosophical, but it's that philosophy that allowed America to be so great for so long.

>>15414

Also, the United States Constitution specifically says the rights can't be infringed. That doesn't mean they won't, but it makes it harder to do so, especially since the entire system is based around those rights. The un declaration of human rights is an afterthought of the governing body that specifically says they are granted at the discretion of the UN.

>>15395

>Something odd knowing that in Star Trek anyone could wipe out an entire village with one shot.

Personal shield units exist in the canon. I would think shielding would exist to prevent some of this.

>>15426

It ended before that when THERE WAS A MASSIVE NUCLEAR WAR THAT WIPED OUT MOST OF HUMAN CIVILISATION.

>In the USA, our rights are given to us by God

Fucking kek, peak burger right here.

>Talking about 2nd Amendment with (((Federation)))

The real question is about arms the citizens of Klingons, Ferengi, Romulans, Cardassians etc get access to.

>>14153

either ram your opponent with it or spin it like nunchucks

michael dorn actually said that they were considering doing some kind of video tape with klingon kung fu, but the lawyers immediately forbid them for fear of kids putting their eyes out with a batleth

>>15397

Even if the Feds don't have a right to bear arms it looks like few people care.

How many freighters and other normal civilian vessels have we seen armed, with ship-scale weapons as well as small arms? And Quark was seen to carry from time to time, though the station wasn't technically Federation territory.

There was also one episode of DS9 where a crewman was stated to collect weapons, "Klingon, Cardassian, and Federation". He even accessed schematics for a top secret prototype rifle that he wanted and nobody cared until two weeks later when someone else murdered people with the same rare make of gun.

>>15395

>What is Mutually Assured Destruction?: the post

>>15453

That guy was starfleet, though. Actually, a plot point of that episode IIRC was that only starfleet officers had replicator access to "military" weapons, so the suspect list was narrowed to them.

>>15453

>How many freighters and other normal civilian vessels have we seen armed, with ship-scale weapons as well as small arms? And Quark was seen to carry from time to time, though the station wasn't technically Federation territory.

Even if weapons access is controlled, it doesn't matter. Replicators make 3D printers look embarrassing; you could fabricate all the parts needed for an energy or projectile weapon in moments, and then use whatever voluminous database you had on hand to show you how to finish assembly. And with larger industrial units, you only need one to fully kit out your freighter with basic armaments over the course of a few days. With some restricted or carefully homebrewed patterns and time, you could probably turn a civilian craft into a nasty surprise for a military scout ship in a week or two.

I feel like this thread is now a bunch of Federation bureaucrats debating how to stop the widespread profilication of hand phasers.

>>15445

Why wouldn’t buildings have shields? Shit like earthquakes or tornadoes could benefit from having shields, not just weapon attacks.

>>15439

Klingons are armed like knights at all times. They've got a disrupter on their back, a dagger at their side, a knife in each boot, etc. There was one DS9 episode where it was revealed that Worf managed to conceal a blade WHILE COMPLETELY NUDE. Safe to say being constantly protected would be a point of honor, and the government isn't going to touch that.

Ferengi don't really seem to care for personal weapons. They just talk their opponent into giving up the fight, and also selling their own children.

Romulans and Cardassians are very structured and restricted, so I would imagine most civilians don't get access to weapons. If you're a member of the military elite, sure, but most spoon-heads running around the place aren't going to have access to as much as a sharp stick.

>>15464

The parts are easy to come by, maybe; it's the power supplies that are more difficult. Also, I'm sure replicators are programmed so they can't make certain things. You know how money has that series of dots that make it so you can't actually scan it because the scanning software is made in such a way that it won't do it if it sees those dots? Imagine replicators being made so they won't make something with a certain pattern of molecules; then they make phasers that can only work with power cells that have that specific pattern of molecules.

Sure, you could design and build your own phaser, but when you're dealing with a power supply that has as much juice as a tactical nuke, do you REALLY want to take that chance? Zip guns blow up in the user's hands all the time; the difference here is that it would take out the user, his family, his house, and the entire city block.

>>15496

Most Cardassian males are in the military so I assume they are armed.

>>15497

Trained maybe, armed is another matter. Unless they do something like they get to take their rifle home with them. Also doesn't Cardassia do national service?

>>15500

>People use phasers on each other in Star Trek all the time though.

But clearly not to anywhere even vaguely near their 'pocket-nuke' level maximum output.

>>15615

>what is conflict escalation

If one uses a low setting someone will eventually use a medium setting, etc and so fourth. The Marquis should be using it constantly. The Changling infiltrators should used it constantly.

>>15634

FOR FUCK'S SAKE IT'S "MAQUIS." THERE IS NO 'R' IN IT. FUCKING STOP

>>15650

Marrrrrrrrrrrrrquis.

There's nothing you can do to stop me.

>>15653

de Sade.

>>15634

>what is conflict escalation

Something that sensible people avoid when possible.

>>15496

>Sure, you could design and build your own phaser, but when you're dealing with a power supply that has as much juice as a tactical nuke, do you REALLY want to take that chance? Zip guns blow up in the user's hands all the time; the difference here is that it would take out the user, his family, his house, and the entire city block.

That strongly depends on what the power source is, if you're using an antimatter battery to power your hand phaser, then yeah, it's going to be unstable. If it is something else the power source should be much more stable. This then leads to the question, how hard would it be to learn the engineering required to safely build a hand phaser power supply. Considering how advanced teaching aids (like holographic representations of scientists) would likely be available and there is no money to have to pay, I assume you could teach yourself what you need to know if you have the patience and discipline to learn.

>>15669

It's probable that it HAS to be an extremely powerful and unstable power source. After all, you can't just hook together a couple 9-volt batteries and create a fucking particle beam weapon. You need energy in the range of a nuclear power plant.

As for the information required to build such things, it's probably not freely available on whatever passes for the civilian internet. Just look at the Maquis colonists; they couldn't do shit on their own until they got some Starfleet defectors. Presumably, if a former Starfleet engineer leaked phaser schematics to the civilians, a bunch of people could then make them. But he probably wouldn't do that, because it would get taken down very quickly, and he'd just end up in a penal colony for the rest of his life. Besides, most of them were brainwashed into not betraying the Federation in the first place.

>>15705

Quark :^)

>>15705

>I don't think there's a sensible person in all of star trek.

The fact that they have managed to avoid interplanetary WMD wars would seem to suggest that they're at least vaguely sensible. Then again, considering the success of Project Genesis the Feds should have been able to just wipe out every other species in the galaxy without wrecking the planets involved (they'd probably make a lot of the planets much nicer places to live in the process).

>>15792

>The fact that they have managed to avoid interplanetary WMD wars would seem to suggest that they're at least vaguely sensible.

You know that the Dominion War was said to have cost billions of lives, or end up costing billions, right? You don't think that WMD's were used there? And you don't think that the Romulans or Klingons ever in their history of conflict used WMD's of some kind to blast away entire cities? You don't think the Federation ever did? Ever? Hell Quark sells WMD's when he becomes a weapons trader.

>>15796

>the Dominion War was said to have cost billions of lives

Do not trust the lies of the Federation.

>You don't think that WMD's were used there?

I'm pretty sure we'd have heard it mentioned in the show, as a part of a 'have you heard what those Founder bastards have down now?!' kind of thing.

>you don't think that the Romulans or Klingons ever in their history of conflict used WMD's of some kind to blast away entire cities?

The Klingons would probably see it as dishonourable (you're admitting that your warriors aren't hard enough to clear that city with Bat'leth and Disruptor fire), and the Romulans would probably be ashamed of admitting that they needed to actually nuke something rather than manipulate it.

>You don't think the Federation ever did? Ever?

I'm remarking that it seems to be conspicuously absent. I'm amazed that we don't hear about it more often in the show.

>Quark sells WMD's when he becomes a weapons trader.

and is visibly disgusted at the idea that anyone would be prepared to ever even think about using such weapons. We know it's not just a reaction to selling weapons either, as he's happily shilling his latest line of ant-tank heavy phasers a scene or two before then.

>>15799

>>the Dominion War was said to have cost billions of lives

>Do not trust the lies of the Federation.

Given that Cardassia suffered 800 million dead in a matter of hours when the Dominion decided to glass the planet - while at the same time fighting the combined Klingon, Romulan, Federation, and Cardassian fleets - I don't think it's in any way unreasonable to put the war's death toll in the billions.

>>15799

>>15796

>>15801

Whenever people say "cost x amount of lives" you cannot just attribute them to combat alone. Far more people die from disease, displacement and famine as a result of wars rather than being shot.

>>15395

Well when you have ships that can pretty easily wipe out a planet it's not really hard to see how it occurs so often. Shit a small little satellite ended up killing an entire race of 4 billion in the original series and that shit wasn't even programmed to do that.

>>15149

More likely Newtonian physics are hard to do with actual models so they went with ship physics for combat. If Star Trek was made today they could do Newtonian physics and all sorts of twists and maneuvers because everything would be CG.

>>16499

Godamnit we need more Weyoun and Founder posting.

>>18560

DS9 gave us the 'shoots anyone, anywhere, through walls' gun. If a little diapered loli like Ezri can use it to reliably kill selected targets inside a busy civilian(ish) installation like DS9, without collateral damage, without any formal training just imagine what a group of redshirts who've actually been taught to use the damn thing properly could do with it.

>Wallhack eyepiece

>Gun that shoots through walls

>A combo so OP that it was broken AF even N64 tier shitty controls

Reminder to filter the diaperfags on sight and not to engage them in any discussion.

>>18569

I just saw that episode of DS9 for the first time a few days ago. I turned to my friend and said, "Holy shit dude, it's like a farsight." He reminded me that the farsight doesn't use teleporter technology, it's just so powerful that it shoots through anything between it and the target.

>>18598

Fair point, but at the same time it's basically the same effect, completely breaking any balance and making the game boring at best and annoying more often than not.

>>18569

>>18598

Red Faction had a similar weapon which was bullshit

>>18622

It takes all the fun out of any game that includes it - which would make it a pretty epic weapon on a battlefield. Granted the microtransporter was added by a vulcan scientist, but why wasn't that immediately taken and implemented by Starfleet as the new standard issue weapon? Were they worried that it would be unsporting to hand their security officers a weapon that makes cover even more irrelevant than the disintegrate setting on the phaser?

>>18634

In First Contact novel a Fed crew used it to beat the Borg off their ship.

>>18635

>Borg somehow defenceless against projectile weapons

>This weakness quickly becomes fucking retarded

>>18650

>Inb4 everyone fixes bayonets and slowly turns Trek into 40k

>>18653

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Marcius_Flavius

that's not necessarily a bad thing.

the skeleton rays from Loud as a Whisper should be standard issue Fed firearms

>>18660

>Not the Harpoon Gun

>Not the Klingon Pain Stick

>Not the Aphasia Device

Hell, the Aphasia Device would not only be hilarious, but it would also fit in with the Federations pacifism.

>>14068

>No trigger guard

>>14068

>no front sight and a useless rear sight

>awkward weight distribution

>>18701

>>18702

>>18706

You're really complaining about this when the TNG era phasers exist?

>>18707

They're both bad.

>>18713

Wow I love Star Lords gun from Garden of the Galactica

>>18711

True, but this one actually looks vaguely like a gun.

>>18706

Clearly the nose trimmer attachment.

This was a /k/omfy thread. Why did it die?

>>18770

It has two settings stun, and kill; it would be best not to confuse them.

>>21175

>It has two settings stun, and kill

seems like you'd need multiple stun setting for different races, and you'd want at least an energy efficient kill setting that just delivers a *likely* fatal blast for hostile field situations when you might not get a chance to recharge the phaser and a full power disintegration kill setting when you really really need a single target dead and gone.

>>21202

>seems like you'd need multiple stun setting for different races

You would think. After all, hit a human over the head with a baseball bat and you'll knock him out; do that to a Klingon and you'll probably only piss him off.

But it depends a great deal how the fuck it even works. Plot wise, it's a required thing sometimes; but the idea of a particle-beam weapon being able to "stun" a human is ridiculous. As a matter of plain fact, knocking someone unconscious for more than a second or two without causing serious damage is actually extremely difficult. Whenever a person gets KOed in, say, boxing, really they only hit the ground for a second and then are immediately conscious again. In movies, it's common for someone to get whacked over the head and not regain consciousness until an hour or two later (once tied up in the bad guy's base), but in reality this really won't happen without serious brain damage and/or coma. Anesthesiologists go to school for years to learn how to properly knock someone out for hours without killing them. You can't just do that with a Vulcan Nerve Pinch or a rag soaked in chloroform or whatever else.

So unless the "stun setting" on a phaser shoots out a miniature anesthesiologist with a full vital signs monitor and a large quantity of anesthetic gas, either the target will get back up again in a couple seconds, or he's probably dead anyway.

Or it's just complete bullshit at a very basic level.

>>21175

There should be at least 3 settings to each gun. Stun, Kill and REMOVE HASPERAT

>>15445

>>15433

AS I understand it they do. Admiral whatshisbeard on ds9 mentions they have stock piles of personal forcefield S phaser rifles and photon grenades ready for Starfleet troops.

It was the two parter where he has red squad false flag the earth after the chengeling bombing

>>22033

I always got the impression that was a very new development, from an unusually militant (by star fleet standards) officer rather than a normal state of affairs.

Test

>>22041

>>>/test/

>>22042

>>>/cuckchan/

flagfaggot

>>22157

The one good thing the Bajorans ever did was design and build A E S T H E T I C phasers, with a trigger guard no less! That's pretty rare in Star Trek, going from the examples we've seen from other species.

>>22159

That's the original concept art for the original Dreamcast version of PSO1.

>>15248

That was in "Frame Of Mind"

But he wasn't convinced the phaser (or anything) was real

>>15669

Or simply collect the nessecary parts bring in to the opposite and have the holo scientist/space armored help you with the build. No reason you can't do that is there?

>>22162

Some neat looking stuff.

>>22166

>and have the holo scientist/space armored help you with the build. No reason you can't do that is there?

On paper there is supposed to be some safety protocols to prevent you doing that, but if we're going by TNG timeline the Enterprise computer seems to be bad or good at getting tricked or bypassed. eg:when it created Moriarty, when it used Data as a template for the NPC opponent in Fistful of Datas. So on paper, no you can't do that. In practice, yeah you can probably go to the Enterprise D's holodeck and ask the computer to re-create the direct energy weapon era equivalent of a JM Browning, Gaston Glock and Cody Wilson to give you a handheld phaser weapons safety course.

>>22159

Is that literally a red go faster stripe?

>>22257

I think we are in Ork physics here?

>>22261

Except that the beam would already be travelling at (or just below) light speed, meaning there was no need to speed it up with red. A yellow strike could increase the energy output MAKEZ BIGGA BOOMS! and is approved by Quark, and a black stripe would make the wielder DED 'ARD!! Sage for 40k posting.

>>22273

>the beam would already be travelling at (or just below) light speed

Except in the actual show they travel the speed of a slow baseball pitch.

>>22301

>Ork tier logic works on Trek now

>Star Fleet introduces the new, Rainbow pattern, personal phaser

>The entire weapon is covered in successive red, green, blue, black, purple, and yellow stripes

>Red stripes make it fire a warp factor 8 beam that hits the target before you know you've pulled the trigger

>Yellow stripes make the beam cause a 'slightly bigger than necessary' explosion whatever it hits

>Blue stripes cause all incoming fire to mysteriously miss for nno good reason

>Purple stripes make the wielder completely invisible to both the naked eye and the best sensors in the Quadrant

>Black stripes make the wielder as resilient as an angry Targ

>Green stripes just make it better

>Entirety of Star Fleet still get bumrushed as soon as the Klingons figure out that the new rules mean they generate a natural Q'PLAH! field that makes them as awesome as they think they are.

>>22317

>Not accepting that Klingons are as close as Strek gets to Orks.

>Not realising that Q'plah! is the Kingon version of "WWAAAAAAAGHH!"

>Suggesting that drawing this link is heretical

The Codex Astartes does not support this action.

>>22319

that would explain the logic of all different sized bird of prey ships.

>Boss, we need bigger ships with mor dakka ta fight the bigger humie ships!

>Ok boyz, then we'll just build more o' tha exact ship we alreddy got, but we build everything on it bigga!

>Waaaagh! Praise Kahlass!

Time to post this:

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Marcius_Flavius

>>22382

>Klingons - a good fit for Orks

>Vulcans & Romulans - Eldar & Dark Eldar (too obvious tbh)

>Borg - Old Necrons (the Pariah fluff is basically a smaller version of assimilation)

>Suliban - Kroot

>Andorians - I can't find a fit for them to be honest

>Star Fleet would also need to morph into the Terran Empire to fit in here as well.

>>22390

> Romulans - Dark Eldar

That implies the romulans kidnap humans for violent bondage sex orgies though.

>>22394

>the romulans kidnap humans for violent bondage sex

>*Romulan porn music intensifies!*

Are you suggesting that would be a bad thing?

>>22390

>Star Fleet would also need to morph into the Terran Empire to fit in here as well

Prime universe Starfleet would be the Tau.

>>22406

I suppose I can see that, it raises questions about who would be the Ethereals though. Khan could make a decent Astartes, if he was twice his height and ten times as swole.

>>22420

>it raises questions about who would be the Ethereals though

>elitist group that uses pheromones to control the populace and spread their message of The Greater Good

That sounds pretty close to what I'd expect the leadership of commie Federation to be like tbh. Maquis also work to some extent as Farsight Enclaves.

>>22394

Never heard of the Vulcan Love Slave series?

The pointy-eared bastards love bondage. The difference between Vulcans and Romulans is what side they prefer to be on.

>>22422

With Eddington as Farsight? He's certainly enough of a dramatic cunt.

>>22425

http://tv.adult-fanfiction.org/story.php?no=600095556

>*Romulan porn music intensifies!*

>>22390

Wouldn't the Pakleds be more a fit for Orks?

>>22430

I was equally triggered.

>>21234

the nerve pinch was supposed to be a psionic attack damnit. then one day data uses it then all bets are off.

when picard did it it was still feasily an aility he picked up from the mind meld with sarek, but now anyone can learn it even if they have a positronic brain with no psionic abilities. WTF

>>22394

thats what happened to Tasha before for she got adopted by subcommander T'Khain (or who the fuck ever)

>>21234

My personal best guess of how the "Stun" setting works is some kind of nerve signal interruption, similar to how a real-world TASER causes nerves to twitch and spasm, but on a larger scale. Thus, "Stun" could effectively render loss of consciousness through simply interfering with brain electrical activity. And, such a thing is based on the majority of alpha/beta quadrant species' brain physiology, which, it was established, have a common precursor ancestor species. Different races being more hardy in that department would be one reason to have stronger "stun" settings (if we assume Enterprise or some similar set of circumstances is "canon" in some way to the TOS-TNG-DS9-VOY continuum, this was probably discovered in the 2150's). What, exactly, causes these interruptions and misfirings, I couldn't say, but I would wager that this is all a "stun" setting can do. On that note, though, it might be handy to jump-start or quickly stop an electrically powered vehicle.

Don't forget, also, that stun weapons are safe enough to sell to private citizens. The God-Being named Kevin had one in TNG, though it was nonfunctional.

>>22890

Long term damage and even death has resulted from prolonged or repeated stun phaserings.

CMO was super worried about that when Geordie got himself captured by the crew of the PSS Shortbus Pakled vessel.

Also did not someone get murdered in their bed with a stun setting on one of the movies?

FURTHERMORE- does note the phaser zap shit into subspace ore someshit? Its basically a phase modulating beam that blows shit halfway I to an alternate dimension… surely that can't be how they are meant to REALLY work. They had to justify having a different name than lasers. Also in TNG they encountered older ships with primitive laser cannons establishing it as a different technology.

A bit of history for you guys…. back in the day <TOS era> lasers were prenatal. They had columnated microwaves and had created "Masers" which I think would be a cool star ship gun M standig. For microwave right? It was split between folks whether to call columnated light Laser L for Light or PhASER Ph for Photon. In otherwords goddamnit they are supposed to be laser guns! But they had to retcon it into something ambiguous and unrelatable to look better on paper.

However-

All this doesn't explain why Or how the stun setting works. And leads me to believe, or perhaps rather to surmise that there are two separate "actions" inside a phaser with stun setting. One is the crazy voodoo phasing array the other is an unknown device that temporarily interrupts neural activity. Maybe electrically. But no-one ever goes BZZZT like the kid on Jurassic park. Best guess is it uses a super low phaser bean with poor combination to bloom in the air and allow a path for some kind of energy transfer OUT of the target. Basically beaming <for lack of a better word> the electrons out of their neural pathways, brain spine and all the way down to sensory nerves for an instant. This causes a complete system shutdown in the body. The intensity of the stun setting would need to be differ between species with epic redundancies or d8fferent nervous system tissue compostition. Like a circuit made from steel wire verses one made with copper wire vs gold wire. All three would essentially be loads of varying resistance.

MEANWHILE all the chemicals are in position to continue their energy generation and the target does not die- but they do pass THE FUCK out and do a complete reboot rather than a quick nap on the st to the mat like in the box8ng scenario.

Anyway thats just my thoughts on stun settings.

>>22898

We discussed the whole maser/laser/phaser thing in another thread awhile back. Also, you're drunk.

>>22902

Is that where the headache came from?

>>15397

We see civilians armed with phasers in several episodes; one I can remember off the top of my head is the one with the godlike being pretending to be human, on a planet that was massacred by aliens. His was old and nonfunctional, but nobody seemed surprised or upset that a colonist was armed.

I believe we've also explicitly heard them referred to as civilian phasers, so presumably they have limitations on their power settings or something.

>>22929

>presumably they have limitations on their power settings or something.

So *just* stun, kill, and disintegrate - couldn't have a civilian running around with settings 4-16.

>>22929

>>22933

Civilians aren't allowed bumpstocks.

>>23012

Now, sir, given that you currently hold a Class One Civilian Phaser License you are not permitted, at this time, to replicate a phaser with any of the following features.

>Any setting above 'stun: civilian / half strength'

>A collimating array of a length above 1cm or below 5mm

>A quick recharge feature (defined as any phaser that can recharge its power cells in less than 12 hours)

>A 'high capacity' power cell (current regulations: 10MW maximum capacity)

>A quick change power cell

>A collimater shroud

>A black plastic housing

>A bayonet lug

Please use your phaser responsibly, and remember that the Federation has your best interests at heart.

>>23060

I've got a pre-ban phaser that has a 2.25 cm collimating array with shroud. It also goes up to 4.

>>23063

>2.25cm collimating array

Compensating for something? Besides, what do you need all those military grade settings for? Are you afraid that the holographic targets will start shooting back? Didn't you hear Capt Janeway giving her speech supporting the 'Save our Chilluns' complete Energy Weapon ban?

>>23071

>>23060

What is fucked is I can actually see something like this happening in our timeline if and when direct energy weapons becomes a thing.

>>23077

It's already happened and is continuing to happen to combustion powered kinetic weapons Anon.

>>23071

>Are you afraid that the holographic targets will start shooting back?

Well, yes. That happens at least once or twice a month.

>>23080

>The only raygun of hope I can see is replicator technology becoming so pervasive and commonplace that it becomes practically impossible to ban someone making a non neutered phaser raifu and pew pew sidearms

I'm sorry to rain on your parade, but when we get developed enough to build enough replicators that there's one in every home then it shouldn't be too tricky to build hardware blocks (that limit you to legal patterns only) into each replicator before they leave the factory. If ST wasn't desperately trying to pretend that Earth becomes a paradise after they implement #FullyAutomatedLuxuryGaySpaceCommunism Starfleet law enforcement are probably raiding unlicensed/home built replicator workshops every day.

>>23097

The idea that the sudden implementation of post-scarcity will just poof society into a utopia is a bit childish. I consider it far more likely that someone will figure out how to replicate plutonium and start a nuclear war less than a week after the things start becoming freely available, than everyone is going to just start living in peace. Outside of idyllic happy soft sci-fi fiction, there is no future in which humans don't mass-murder each other. It's simply in their nature.

>>23112

My point exactly, you could give every human their own personal planet and industrial replication gear - and we'd still find reasons to shoot at each other.

AVE NEX ALEA

>>23114

They'd start throwing the planets at each other. Whatever weapons the public has access to, they will use.

The main problem with lasers is that they're line-of-sight weapons.

Anyone familiar with warfare knows line of sight weapons are useless for anything but pinning the enemy down, you can't actually kill the enemy with them, because all the enemy has to do to become invulnerable to them is hide from the line of sight.

The real thing that kills enemies are non-line of sight weapons, anything that can actually get behind cover. If a disruptor shot exploded after a preset distance, it would be a beyond line of sight weapon, and a major killer of enemies. Maybe some kind of miniaturized torpedo.

>>23178

Except that, going by listed power outputs, you'd need a few meters of *insert impossibly strong and conductive material here* to block even the T2 hand phaser for more than a fraction of a second. You could probably destroy a target beyond the horizon just by aiming directly at them (through the planet) and holding the fire button down for a few seconds.

>>23186

I was going on the assumption that this thread had more-or-less agreed that those power outputs of a hand phaser being as powerful as a goddamn tactical nuke were complete horseshit and pointless to bring up because they are no supported by any evidence from the actual episodes.

>>23195

>power outputs of a hand phaser being as powerful as a goddamn tactical nuke were complete horseshit and pointless to bring up

It's still canon m8.

>they are no supported by any evidence from the actual episodes

I can't remember an episode where they fire their phasers above setting 3 (disintegrate), which wouldn't argue against their being higher settings, just that SF doesn't use them (presumably out of a desire to not melt everything in front of them)

>>23202

Supplementary material doesn't out-canon what actually happens on screen; sorry anon.

>>23208

Here, watch it happening on screen. Type 2 phasers confirmed for pocket nukes.

Will there be a National Raygun Association in the future?

>>23186

Such blind obedience to canon means any cargo ship could cover itself in millions of hand phasers, come on an enemy, and just slowly barrel roll while discharging phasers at high power continuously. That could be a planet killer like you said, or even kill the borg.

Star trek writers simply cannot comprehend scale, they are bad writers, you can't blindly obey canon.

>>23267

Now that is just beautiful. You're right, ST writers have no concept of scale, or even just thinking through what they're about to establish. However, it is canon. I'd love to have a series of Star Trek that was written by a wannabe A.C.Clarke who wanted to completely remove the nonsense and make the setting at least believable. But until we get that there's very little reason for ships not to use hand phasers as WMDs.

>>23210

>But what actually happens on-screen doesn't contradict the supplementary material

Yes it does.

>justification for the absurd powerlevel of phasers comes from someone analyzing a hole burrowed out on-screen by a phaser blast from the Enterprise.

Fuck that person then. There's no fucking way hand phasers are that powerful. Might as well give federation troops the ability to destroy all enemies with their minds, at a range of a galaxy.

>>23215

Obrien would never do that, because it would cut the station in half.

>>23268

>However, it is canon.

Fuck canon then.

>>23267

>>23268

Perhaps the real reason the Federation is so utopian and peaceful is the idea of MAD turned up to 11. Since anyone and everyone has the potential to commit murder on such a massive scale there's a pretty strong incentive not to provoke anyone you meet.

>>23269

>because it would cut the station in half

I always thought that was part of what added to the drama and pathos in that scene. The one competent man in Star Fleet has been driven so far that he simply doesn't care how much of a collateral damage bill his suicide involves.

>>23270

JJ Abrams, we all know that's you. Look, you need help mate, and you won't get it here.

>>23272

I understand the purpose of canon, I really do. Its there to prevent retards from changing everything every episode and ruining all continuity. But that doesn't mean we have to suffer forever because some underpaid writer with a hangover from last night made an error in judgement.

>>23273

I understand your pain here, I really do, but that's the price we pay for making sure we don't get some network exec radically altering the setting and show every 3 episodes because "Hey, we got some new polling data!"

>>23274

So we can't even throw out the things that are self-contradictory? I don't see any reason why anyone would even like Star Trek if that couldn't be done.

>>23275

I like the simplicity of the design there, but you'd get full blown edition wars with fans of different offshoots

>"Original Series is obviously prime source!"

<"But TNG had much more thought put into it and makes a much better authoritative source, being a wider, deeper, and longer show!"

>"Look, can we at least agree that the animated series outranks JJ and STD?"

>>23279

How about "New overwrites the old until ~Season 5 of DS9/First Contact, and case-by-case basis for anything made afterwards"? That gives us a relatively solid and drama-free canon for the bulk of all /strek/ content, but lets us cut out the Borg Queen and Voyager's rendition of the Collective. We can also cut "Far Beyond the Stars" and Dukat's shitty arc in Season 7.

>>23279

Don't we already do that?

>>23281

>case-by-case basis

It's canon, unless it's stupid, then it's not canon.

Precedent: TNG S7E09, 'Force of Nature'.

>>23210

Except there is NO REASON they wouldn't use higher settings in the firefights if it would give them a tactical advantage to be doing it. It's not a goddamn shounen anime where fifty episodes in the protag suddenly reveals he's hiding a secret superpower and never used it until now just because. Absence of evidence is not fucking evidence of absence, either. Or do you need to reacquaint yourself with Russel's Teapot and why Creationists are retards?

For what POSSIBLE reason would you put tactical nukes in the hands of every soldier in the first place, when 99% of their needs are fulfilled by the lowest possible settings? That would be like buying giant thousand-dollar speakers and then using them only for the headphone jack. Except these speakers will vaporize you and everything within five miles if you accidentally misclick the goddamned volume control. It's utterly ridiculous.

>>23281

>Everything is canon except for the parts I don't like

Uh huh.

>>23290

You're assuming that most of Star Fleet is aware of what their kit can do. If we assume that the average SF officer has gone through several years of a liberal arts degree combined with extensive diversity and right-think workshops at the academy, and that the actual nuts and bolts stuff is left to non-commissioned ranks, then the attitude of the officers and them not using their gear anywhere near peak effectiveness makes a lot more sense. I've lost track of the number of scenes that culminate with a member of the bridge crew saying along the lines of "Computer, engage obvious Deus Ex Machina!", the computer knows to run the ships and solve all their problems, and the technobabble is just an invocation to activate the AI.

>>23290

<Everything is canon except for the parts I don't like

You say that as if this is a bad thing.

>>23290

>Everything is canon except for the parts I don't like

Doesn't that perfectly describe the position of people claiming that T2 hand phasers aren't pocket nukes?

>>23295

I assume they aren't retarded.

For example Voyager had some weird cannon installed that could destroy borg ships, and by the time that episode was over the cannon was still installed but it was never again used or even spoken of, despite multiple encounters with borg.

This is how retarded the writers are.

WOG - Word of God - applies to writers that know what the fuck they're doing, ie. none of the writers attached to Star Trek franchise.

It's absolute garbage left as-is, fucking Beyblade has a more thought out universe.

>>23308

Which is exactly my point. It makes perfect sense if you assume that automation, AI, and massively well developed information infrastructure has dulled their minds to the point where they can't do anything except tell the computer to do things. Like a stronger version of a teenager today who can't change a fuse without checking the wikihow page on his phone.

>>23311

Well now THAT isn't canon, Kevin.

>>23313

Never claimed it was, it's an interpretation of what we're shown on screen in a vain attempt to make actual canon seem a little less retarded (by massively increasing the retardation of the cast to keep the equation balanced).

>>23305

No, that describes people thinking with basic fucking logic, and remembering that SUPPLEMENTARY MATERIALS ARE NEVER CANON!

>>23308

>Voyager had some weird cannon installed that could destroy borg ships

The Photonic Cannon? That was imaginary, anon.

>>23316

Why do is the first assumption is that I'm an absolute twit? If you thought of the dumb hologram hallucination, why settle on it as what I meant?

It was called the isokinetic cannon, it completely ignores shields and penetrates armor quite well too. It was installed on voyager and they carried out a live fire test on a massively thick armor plate that had ridiculous shielding, blew right through it. A borg ship mostly relies on its shielding and self repair to survive, it wouldn't stand a chance.

Later on the idiotic plot got resolved, but by the end the cannon was never removed from the ship… and never mentioned again.

>>23326

>A weapon was never used against the Borg

>You take this to assume it would have been extremely effective against the Borg anyway

You're a moron who makes shit up to suit his own narrative and ignores everything else. End of story.

>>23345

So an in-show example of a starfleet captain admitting a weapon is superior to phasers and torpedoes, and it being shown penetrating more armor and shielding than a borg ship carries is not a suggestion that a weapon would be more effective against the borg…. or anyone else since its never used again… but some guy back-calculating the strength of hand phasers from a shipboard phaser digging through rock of unknown composition after significant unknown modification is completely acceptable?

>>23352

>more armor and shielding than a borg ship carries

What did you base this on? Until they actually tested it on an actual Borg ship, you cannot know that it would exceed Borg ship armor and shielding, which — by the way — they are constantly improving anyway. It took hundreds of torpedoes and phaser shots to only inflict minor surface damage on a single cube. Something just "more powerful" than those aren't going to do TOO much more unless they're more powerful by a factor of magnitude.

In any case, reading the summary of the episode tells me the guy who owned and was installing the cannon ended up dying. Perhaps they couldn't figure out how to get it working without his specific expertise (or without some critical element he took with him on his ship, which got destroyed), and so had to scrap the partially-installed cannon for parts.

>some guy back-calculating the strength of hand phasers from a shipboard phaser digging through rock of unknown composition after significant unknown modification is completely acceptable?

I never said it was. In fact, almost everyone here accepts that is also nonsense and has no correlation with what actually happens.

Why do we care about weapons in Star Trek when fights are determined by who can lift?

>>23416

He gave them the full blueprints, and a prototype was installed on voyager. Borg cubes don't have any armor, they just depend on shielding and regeneration where enemy shots get through. Considering this weapons ignores the presence of shielding, it would make it a hell of a lot more effective than phasers or torpedoes.

THE ENTIRE POINT IS THAT THE WRITERS COULD HAVE INSERTED A SENTENCE THAT RESOLVED THIS WHOLE ISSUE

>"Captain, he's taken the brulitium matrix of the weapon!"

>"Captain, we can't complete the weapon without him!"

And didn't. Creating canon that essentially paints the whole crew of voyager as mental retards with short term memory difficulties.

>>23441

>canon that essentially paints the whole crew of voyager as mental retards with short term memory difficulties.

This is Janeway & co you're talking about though.

>>23424

>Why do we care about weapons in Star Trek when fights are determined by who can lift?

Because empty hand space karatay and space jujitsu has it's limits, and platitude aside of "your mind is your greatest weapon" which at the conceptual level I actually agree with.

At some point an opponent swoler than you and who can lift more than you can and will show up. At that point you may need the swole to lift a phaser or a metal bar to beat even a Superior Being into compliance. Even one of the stronkest race in the galaxy the Klingons, you will never hear a single one of them say "a phaser is for pussy, real warriors use a bat'leth", not even Klingaboo Worf is that delusionally meleeaboo about weapons.

>>23424

>Spend years in the gym getting swole

>Give up on everything else in life, don't even bother with combat training, just get ripped

>Load up on all the roids the replicator can give you, cut 40 years off your expected lifespan, dick shrinks so much that the Vulcans ask to study it as a unique quantum anomaly

>Finally, you are the super swole, you lift shuttlecraft one handed with the hangars gravity turned up to max just to show off, you've put on so much mass that you start to affect the ships heading just from your gravitational field

>Get wrekt by the first wheelchair bound grandmother who pulls a phaser on you

>GG m8

>>23441

>Oh no, there was a plot hole in Voyager because of bad writing and/or incompetent editing

Do you have a point here, or are you just going to continue to self-fellate about how you found one of the hundreds of similar issues in Trek? This shit isn't only in Voyager, and the fact that even your retard ass was able to devise a simple solution to the plot hole "a sentence" and all, proves that it's not even a big plot hole. The writers expected you to figure that part on your own, instead of hand-holding you through every single explanation, maybe?

>>23476

Someone needs to do an edit of this so Khan crumples the phaser and it causes the thing to detonate in a huge explosion, cut to the scene in III where the Enterprise blows up. Roll credits.

>>23483

He said get Swole not turn into Worf.

>>23553

But Worf is the perfect example of the Swoletard. He spends stupid amounts of time on 'muh traynin', thinks that he is officially the most awesome thing ever, and is completely fucking useless because it's not the 11th century anymore.

>>23528

>Do you have a point her

The point is that plot holes ARE NOT CANON and should not be followed as canon.

End of discussion.

>>23528

>Someone needs to do an edit of this so Khan crumples the phaser and it causes the thing to detonate in a huge explosion, cut to the scene in III where the Enterprise blows up. Roll credits.

I forgot how that was meant to happen in an episode. Consistency in writing is beyond retarded.

>>23566

What should or shouldn't be canon in Star Trek?

>>23631

TV is primary canon. Movies would form a lower canon than TV, the books would form an even lower form of canon than movies, and things like *chan or forum posts calculating phaser strength are not canon at all. This single fucking forum post about phaser strength has annihilated half of this thread, making it unreadable and destroying any fun this thread might have been.

In the case where plot points on a single medium (TV, or movie, or book) contradict each other, the earlier plot point or the more common plot point in the same medium will take precedence over a later or less common plot point. The level of canon by medium will also figure into the calculation.

For example Angry Picard from movies contradicts Calm Picard from the series. Because Angry Picard is not TV but movie, it is a lower form of canon. Because Angry Picard happened later and because it's less commonly used - Angry Picard is not canon at all.

>>23650

So your canon hierarchy means that it is completely impossible for the character of Jean luc Picard to get angry? He's literally a (hippy version of) mythic zen master in charge of a starship?

>>23650

>TV is primary canon

One issue with this is that multiple series also can contradict each other. I propose that TNG be used as the "master" canon, and then the other series are ranked lower from there. Only higher series can out-canon lower ones.

TNG

DS9

TOS

VOY

ENT

\/

\/

\/

DIS (I hesitate to put this here at all, because just like the JJ-verse it's clearly a hard reboot of the series. Maybe both of those should each just be considering their own self-contained canon?)

>>23669

>DS9<TNG

I'd recommend that these two be switched around, because DS9 went a long way towards correcting some issues with lore from TNG.

>>23669

JJverse (including STD) is a separate and distinct continuity. It has no interaction with Star Trek.

>>23670

Also this.

>>23631

Can we remove the 75-year timeskip between TOS and TNG in our reformed canon? Asking for a friend.

>>23680

>JJverse (including STD) is a separate and distinct continuity. It has no interaction with Star Trek.

Of courshe. But yes really, I'd treat anything pre JewJew as Trek, that's the demarcation line as far as I'm concerned.

>>23670

I'd say yes on that one too.

>>23682

I'll give you a (You) for causing a slight chuckle.

>>14157

Apparently in most battles in edo-period Japan (a time when the other civilised countries all had muskets / rifles, but Japan was isolated on purpose and the few firearms they had were locked away by lords), the samurai used spears / pikes or bows. Even when they didn't have firearms the katana and wakazishi (or whatever the short one is called) were ceremonial / dueling weapons.

>>23699

It could be simpler to define every individual show (and its associated movies) as its own universe.

>>23700

It would be simpler, but there's a lot of crossover between TNG, DS9, and VOY as they took place at the same time and sometimes swapped characters or events. And the Mirror Universe supposedly bridges all of them.

>>23706

True, but there's enough contradictions between those three shows that treating the crossovers as special cases would be easier than the other way around.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/inconsistencies/reused_props_beam_weapons.htm

A site about the weapon props through out different series.

>Starfleet rifle

>Quark demonstrates a rifle with gold tarnish to his customers in DS9: "Business as Usual". The weapon appears to be a modification of the Starfleet weapon that is in use since "Star Trek: First Contact".

A possibly unlicensed copy or mod of a Fed rifle. Even if personally I still rather have a Cardi space AK, the thought of a jailbroken Fed phaser rifle lubed with Fed tears sold by a Ferengi sounds pretty sweet.

>>23653

Do you not understand the difference between movie Picard and television Picard? Have you never seen a fucking Star Trek movie? He yells, screams, flips out and smashes random objects, breaks starfleet laws nonstop, does immoral shit, murders crew members…. it's not the same character.

>>23669

>s that multiple series also can contradict each other.

Try reading the whole post next time

>In the case where plot points on a single medium (TV, or movie, or book) contradict each other, the earlier plot point or the more common plot point in the same medium will take precedence over a later or less common plot point.

>>23858

>it's not the same character.

and yet it is the same character. You wanting them to be two different characters doesn't make it so.

>>24081

The two characters are acting differently, this doesn't make them the same. I don't get your post, no one wants picard to be a schizophrenic.

>>24090

>People can never get angry or want revenge

>PTSD doesn't exist

>Everyone in Trek should have one-dimensional characters

Seriously, dude. You're a retard.

>>24090

>Be Picard

>Watch the Borg do time shit at Earth to destroy everything you care about

>Get sucked back through time to a primitive and barbarous era

>Borg invade ship, kill your own man to save him from assimilation

>Start getting PTSD flashbacks to that one time the Borg raped your everything with power tools

>Literally fighting to save everything you know

<Hmm, I guess that this intense stress means that I will act the way I normally do at the office.

>>24094

>>24102

>go through far more stressful situations without spazzing out

>get assimilated and brought back

>fight borg without spazzing out

>doesn't spazz out and kill hugh

>doesn't spazz out and kill the borg cult

Cut to movie

>order crew to kill assimilated crew despite the fact that they can be brought back

Yeah totally consistent.

>>24103

>I know Picard's mind more than the writers who created him

>I'm an expert on PTSD and know it will either always happen or never happen

>Picard's assimilation was exactly the same as a normal drone's assimilation

Get outta here, kid.

>>24116

>implying the writers who created him were a single group of people

>implying Angry Picard wasn't a retarded invention to draw dudebros to the big screen

Fucking lol.

>Picard's assimilation was exactly the same as a normal drone's assimilation

They actually said it was in the show. Also how do you explain the fact he didn't kill Hugh or the homicidal Borg Cult under the control of Lore, yet he spazzed out and killed his own crew with whom he served for years.

Also I know enough about PTSD to know it doesn't strike at random intervals.

>>24118

>They actually said it was in the show

Except it clearly wasn't. It went more in depth in FC with the whole "counterpart" thing, but it was still obvious in BoBW because he didn't have as much shit stuck in his face as the average drone did. He was literally the spokesperson for the Borg for their interactions with humanity; it was in his fucking NAME: Locutus. HE HAD A FUCKING NAME!! How can you even think he was the same as every other drone?!

>I know enough about PTSD

You don't know a goddamn thing; don't lie. What, you once read a wikipedia article? Pathetic.

>>24141

>because he didn't have as much shit stuck in his face

Fucking lol. So because of your subjective determination YOU have the power to determine canon.

>>24141

>He was literally the spokesperson for the Borg for their interactions with humanity

But he was still just a drone. That wasn't Picard speaking, it was the Collective speaking; they believed that using a human as a representative would make the Federation more amicable to assimilation, and/or demoralize them in battle if they resisted.

>>24103

To be fair those crewmembers were complete jerks to him. He just wanted an excuse to shoot them.

>>29853

NO TRIGGER GUARDS

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>29855

Trigger guards would be racist.

Plus IRL winter weapons often don't have them, and space is very cold.

>>29855

If you're making winter capable gun, you make it so gloved fingers can use it. This is why a lot of Soviet weapons had removable trigger guards, or extra large ones.

Maybe this is meant to be used with a EVA suit?

>>29875

GET OUT

OF MY

FUCKING

HEAD

>>29876

>>29877

Snap nigga

That, and I guess since point is to avoid snags or worse, discharging from snagging, there's no need for a guard on a gun that isn't typically carried (only grabbed in emergency situations) and probably has a fucking supercomputer in it that can tell whether or not you meant to pull the trigger.

Kinda like how TNG phasers knew where to aim even when they were pointed nowhere near the target, lol

What I don't get is why there is still no gun that can be fired with your benis?

>>29898

Why no ass phasers?

Why did Feds switch from Blue to Orange phasers?

>>30241

Orange looks more menacing.

>>29875

>Plus IRL winter weapons often don't have them, and space is very cold.

Would it not make sense to design phasers for use in EVA suits? Or even to design phasers specifically for use while wearing an EVA suit while issuing different phasers for regular use in a pressurised environment or in a suitable atmosphere?

>>30254

Well yeah.Why not put a phaser in every codpiece, commbadge, croissant…

In Orville? They're clearly products of our own time and appropriately retarded just like we are.

Completely not going to be surprised when they eventually reveal that everything about how the Union operates is that way because they're all Star Trek fans.

But in Star Trek? They have the technology to be a thousand times more deadly than they are, but don't.

As long as we're headcanoning we might as well assume there's some ideological reason why. In fact they all seem kinda preoccupied with rising above their worst tendancies. Even the most warlike consider themselves products of a legacy of honour.

>>30244

Better stay in the Federation goyim!

>>30264

>Well yeah.Why not put a phaser in every codpiece, commbadge, croissant…

Maybe you misunderstood me.

I meant more phasers which were designed to be usable while the user was in an EVA suit.

Much like how tools for use in space while on an EVA are designed specifically to be easier to use while wearing an EVA suit makes sense and why those same tools are not used inside the pressurised elements of spacecraft and spacestations.

>>30276

No, I got you, but my point was: why do they use archaic weapon paradigms like handguns and rifles at all? Why do the Klingons use those dumb fucking bat'leth?

They have the technology to turn every away party member into a fully-shielded beam-hedgehog who can transport your heart out of your chest with a gesture, but they don't.

When it comes to phaser rifles, they *could* have a huge arsenal of specialised weapon types, sure. EVA issue variants are just the tip of that iceberg. But once you start gearing up like you're *expecting* to fight (as opposed to maintaining the pretence that every vessel is a science/exploration/diplomacy platform only and Starfleet has no warships), why aren't you using antigrav phaser drones, orbital sniping, or nanite phage clouds?

All of those are more efficacious tools, if that's the goal. than putting a more ergonomic handle on what is essentially a 17th-century weapon design.

We're just fanwanking here but I say it might be because they're solemn instruments used only with regret.

>>30279

Startrek was written and developed by a utopian pacifist rather than a /k/ommando trying to picture what warfare could look like with the technologies in the setting.

>>30282

Which is pretty funny that it has some really good tense naval action episodes. Some of which is considered quite realistic in grand scale of things in how space combat would be fought.

>>30286

>Star Trek

>Anywhere near what RL space combat might look like

I'm going to have to ask you which episodes you're talking about there.

>>30294

Did you ever watch TOS anon?

>>30344

>ENT

>TNG

>DS:9

>A few episodes of Voyager

Yeah, I've got to give you that one.

>>30389

Watch Balance of Terror anon. And the one with the Organians I forget which one that is but think Season 1 It's like WW2 Naval Combat in space.

>>30681

>It's like WW2 Naval Combat in space.

Ah, fair enough, I thought that you were talking about an episode where they went out of their way to show what combat with that technology might look like in a zero g vacuum, my bad.

>>29875

>space is very cold

Common Hollywood myth. Space isn't cold. Space is nothing. There is no air or anything else in space to come into contact with objects to change their temperature. In fact, in most cases space is too hot. Things that produce heat (read: literally everything that does things, because entropy) must have careful cooling methods as they naturally can only lose heat through radiation, not convection or conduction. Satellites and spacecraft have radiator panels, and astronauts have cooling suits that circulate water through tubes in their undergarments. If that system malfunctioned, you'd boil to death from your own body heat in minutes.