No.104863
The founding document of Luxembourg is not a constitution, it’s a deed. A deed of purchase by Count Siegfried from a monastery. That inheritance has transferred down to the current Grand Duke.
>Siegfried or his ancestors got that money to pay for that land through violence!
The only accounts are wars of defense, or defending their legitimately inherited titles.
>Yeah, but everyone back then—
Innocent until proven guilty.
>He was violent against his citizens for sure! Luxembourg doesn’t allow X, Y, Z under threat of force.
He’s merely a landlord, and therefore has the right to physically remove under libertarian law.
>But that doesn’t pass until the modern day because when Count Weingraf of Smexelblob inherited the lands and combined them with his other holdings of Ruritania, he dirtied Luxembourgish inheritance together with the spoils of THOSE ill-gotten gains, and—
O.k.. So if theoretically a libertarian court found the amount of renumerations that the current Grand Duke is liable for, and the Luxembourgish government paid for that, would the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg be ancap?
>But Luxembourg today has a parliament, and—
A generous landlord.
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No.104864
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No.104866
>>104863
Luxembourg provides citizenship. It's a much closer example of AnCap than most nations today, but it's still a nation. That's ok though- things don't have to be AnCap to be a good example of being "closer to those ideals" overall. Things are a dial, yo.
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No.104901
>>104866
A nation is the culture and traditions of a people. Do you mean country?
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No.104915
>>104901
You know what I meant and I won't have a vocabulary war.
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No.104916
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No.104917
>>104863
Is the monastery's claim of ownership itself legitimate? I find it hard to believe that literally noone was living there until the count bought the deed.
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No.104924
>>104917
Don't you think after a thousand years, your claim to one of your ancestor's property is not as legitimate as those who have lived on, traded, and improved said property over the last 1000 years? Does that mean no property is legitimate? Because that's the logical conclusion of your argument.
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No.104929
For the sake of argument, say the OP is true…Luxembourg has a large welfare state and regulatory apparatus, how can it be ancap? Theoretically, are legitimate land titles really all that's needed to completely make or break this? Is libertarianism at its core more about personal and economic liberty, or properly established estate transfer?
Y'all have me confused about what the fuck even is libertarianism.
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No.104930
>>104929
AnCap is private property rights. Although we advocate for a free-market, if you would like to institute a "socialist-esque" system on your own private property, it is not immoral or unethical to do so. If Lichtenstein's claim is legitimate, then Lichtenstein has legitimate right over the property. Of course, most countries do not have legitimate claim on "their" property. For example, the United States was formed by seceding from GB and the central government enforced its rule on the rest of the land, whether you supported the Patriots or not. The rest of the land was claimed by monetary purchases collected by theft and slavery and Southwestern United States was gained by a war with Mexico.
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No.104936
>>104924
>Don't you think after a thousand years, your claim to one of your ancestor's property is not as legitimate as those who have lived on, traded, and improved said property over the last 1000 years? Does that mean no property is legitimate? Because that's the logical conclusion of your argument.
Completely irrelevant to my point.
There were people living in luxembourg before the monastery (most likely arbitrarily) claimed ownership over the land.
The descendants of those same people still lived there when the deed was sold.
They probably still live there today.
They are the rightful owners of the land. The monatery and county never homesteaded or had a legitimate claim to the land.
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No.104944
>>104930
Would Lichtenstein be more ancap than Luxembourg?
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No.104948
>>104936
>probably
If you can prove a specific family is the rightful owner of a piece of land using your logic, then Luxembourg's claim on that piece of property is illegitimate and that property and those who live on that property cannot be taxed.
>>104944
>Would Lichtenstein be more ancap than Luxembourg?
I misread OP's post as referring to Lichtenstein rather than Luxembourg. I know nothing of Lichtenstein and Luxembourg's history, only what anons here have told me. I'm simply explaining the logic of private property rights and under what circumstances is a claim legit. Apply it to your own historical knowledge at your own discretion.
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No.104949
both liechtenstein and luxembourg have the monopoly on final arbitration in their territory and have the power to tax which makes it a state and not ancap
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No.104950
>>104948
>If you can prove a specific family is the rightful owner of a piece of land using your logic, then Luxembourg's claim on that piece of property is illegitimate and that property and those who live on that property cannot be taxed.
Yes, that's what I implied.
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No.104993
>>104949
shouldnt every property owner have power to rule his or her property as he or she wants?
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No.105002
>>104993
Yes, but the most that can result from that rule is physical removal so to speak. Final arbitration on your land is fine, but the implication anon got at was that punishment for failing to follow final arbitration or failure to pay taxes would result in being imprisoned instead of being kicked off the property.
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No.105068
>>105002
so is propertarianism bad?
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No.105070
>>105068
Propertarianism is an autistic, logically incoherent cult of personality of worshipping the empirical that Curt Doolittle built upon around himself. The less is said of it the better.
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No.105151
>>105070
>being this anglocentric
pff
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