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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)

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Ya'll need Mises.

File: b7cfce1f23357d0⋯.png (86.76 KB,453x551,453:551,9ab50fb2453229f77045bb8da7….png)

 No.103331

I am NatSoc, I despise Capitalism and Communism both as Materialist philosophies at best and Jewish-in-spirit at worst. Communists push for Revolutionary action it's not a good kind of Revolution, whereas Capitalists are too reactionary and worried about maintaining the Status Quo or enough of the Status Quo to allow them to stay wealthy without getting their hands dirty.

Recently I've gotten interested in Anarchist ideas and how to combine NatSoc ideas of Race, Nature, Hierarchy etc. With Anarchist ideas of Decentralization, Community as opposed to Government, and Freedom.

The more I got to thinking about it, the more I realized that if we abolish the State a lot of the the things Racialists are mad about would be nullified. The Feds completely re-wrote the meaning of Liberty and Citizenship by force in the Civil War, and a lot of what we hate stems from that ex. Forced integration and "Civil Rights". Jews and Race Traitors would not be able to subvert our Country if there was no massive power structure there to pacify us, we could storm the offices of Anti-White media bosses, Bankers, etc. and give them the correct punishment for treason without ZOG enforcers throwing us in prison, etc.

This is not to say I'm whining about them violating "Muh NAP" or whatever, I believe Might is Right and the only Freedoms and Rights we have are those we take/keep by force. There is no natural human right to anything, if someone is strong enough to take something from you and you can't stop it there is no God of Human Rights who will magically correct it for you.

I've read all different kinds of solutions from a National Socialist/Authoritarian perspective, my question for you all is what is your proposed solutions to demolishing State power and restoring Aryan freedoms?

____________________________
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 No.103344

Elite rule is inevitable due to the nature of division of labour in bureaucracies. Elites rub shoulder with other elites and so feel separate from the masses. The question is what kind of elite you want. An ideological elite of Nazis seems best if you a Nazi.

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 No.103356

You reek of edge

>Capitalists are too reactionary and worried about maintaining the Status Quo or enough of the Status Quo to allow them to stay wealthy without getting their hands dirty.

Like who? What are you defining as capitalism?

>if we abolish the State a lot of the the things Racialists are mad about would be nullified

You're on the right track

>if there was no massive power structure there to pacify us, we could storm the offices of Anti-White media bosses, Bankers, etc. and give them the correct punishment for treason without ZOG enforcers throwing us in prison, etc.

isn't that the exact rationale of the commies, just in the inverse?

If there were no such structure you would just voluntarily disassociate from anti-white entities, and they couldn't force you to buy their propaganda.

>I believe Might is Right and the only Freedoms and Rights we have are those we take/keep by force

No you don't, you just said: "Communists push for Revolutionary action it's not a good kind of Revolution". That's a moral judgment.

Grow up and recognize that morality is genuine and objective, decreed by the creator.

Ok your main question:

>What is (sic) your proposed solutions to demolishing State power and restoring Aryan freedoms?

The blueprint is called a covenant community, formulated by Hoppe.

There are a number of groups out to argue for libertarian principles in society. The greatest is the Mises institute.

There are a couple projects:

-System politics (Ron Paul republicans, Libertarian party ((not good)), constitution party)

-Seasteading

-Free State project

-preparing for system collapse (american redoubt)

I'm personally very hopeful for the northwest front. I have every reason to believe that a potential future NWF state would be much less of an imposition on the citizen compared to the current system. Covington always said that libertarians would be part of the equation.

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 No.103380

>>103356

>Covington always said that libertarians would be part of the equation.

I feel completely out of the loop but what is Covington?

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 No.103393

File: 0bef4e1b62e36a3⋯.jpeg (506.3 KB,742x1000,371:500,8c66bf2cf6aa480bdba3bf019….jpeg)

>>103356

>You reek of edge

Hey now.

>Like who? What are you defining as capitalism?

The Capitalist Class in general. They will betray their Race and act scummy because their highest value is profit. I have personally been a victim of this, and not in a "They won't pay me $15 to flip burgers" way. I was in a wreck, open wounds all over my body and when I tried to miss work my lovely Capitalist bosses told me word for word "We are a buisness we're here to make money" and said if I didn't come in I'll have to take a write-up.

Thats not to mention stuff like cutting corners to save a penny if it means damaging the environment or shitty work conditions. I define Capitalism as an economic system where Individual profit, even at the expense of the folk, is the prime motivator.

>isn't that the exact rationale of the commies, just in the inverse?

>If there were no such structure you would just voluntarily disassociate from anti-white entities, and they couldn't force you to buy their propaganda.

We can learn some things from Commie tactics just as Hitler did, their aggression is partially why they have been pretty succesful in the past. You are right that we could voluntarily reject them, but you also said "if there were no such structure…" Which there is. Until the State is gone these behemoth Anti-Whites entities will continue to threaten us and should be resisted by any means necessary.

>No you don't, you just said: "Communists push for Revolutionary action it's not a good kind of Revolution". That's a moral judgment.

Yes, I do. Logically speaking Jewish Anti-White Communism is bad for me and my Kinsman/Friends since I am a White, and "Might is Right" says your duty is to yourself and your kindred.

>Grow up and recognize that morality is genuine and objective, decreed by the creator.

It's not very grown to appeal to abstractions for morality. I believe in a Creator, one who made Nature which is a tangible, true, objective and genuine standard against which to measure ourselves.

Thanks for the answers anyway.

>>103386

>Agression is objectively immoral because no one wants to be agressed against.

Thats not exactly true. It could be benefical for Group A to aggress against Group B which is openly hostile and antagonistic.

Another scenario, if Group B has a bunch of resources they won't trade which Group A needs to survive it may be more beneficial for Group A to aggress against Group B even if Group A does not want to be aggressed against.

"Might is Right":

>Is the Golden Rule a rational rule?— Is it not rather a menial rule — a coward rule — a best-policy rule? Why is it 'right' for one man to do unto others as he would have others do to him and, what is right? If 'others' are unable to injure him or 'do good' to him, why should he consider them at all? Why should he take any more notice of them than of so many worms? If they are endeavoring to

injure him and able to do it, why should he refrain from returning the compliment? Should he not combat them, does not that give them carte-blanche to injure and destroy him? May it not be 'doing good' to others, to war against them, to annihilate them? May it not, also, be 'good' for them to war against others? (Again, what is

'good?')

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 No.103395

you are spooked

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 No.103398

>>103331

Hoppe pretty much wrote half a book on this very question, I suggest you read it if this really interests you.

>This is not to say I'm whining about them violating "Muh NAP" or whatever, I believe Might is Right and the only Freedoms and Rights we have are those we take/keep by force. There is no natural human right to anything, if someone is strong enough to take something from you and you can't stop it there is no God of Human Rights who will magically correct it for you.

Then I am not interested in having you as an ally. I don't care if we're "kinsmen", being of the same phenotype as me does not mean a lot to me. If we share a cultural heritage, sure, I appreciate that, but historically, natsocs have been destroyers of culture, and they still are. Bunch of slack-jawed faggots who don't know if they're cultural Christians or Wotanists this week. No thanks.

>M-muh might is right

Y'all cowards don't even read Ethica Thomistica, just the blabberings of some English man larping as a Norse pirate. "Ragnar Redbeard", more like "Fagnar Fagbeard", amirite?

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 No.103406

File: c5f8934bb0e9bbd⋯.jpeg (143.56 KB,879x506,879:506,b11c1151594d9e60280e53169….jpeg)

>>103393

>>103356

Disregard this part of my post, I misread your comment. The rest still stands

>but you also said "if there were no such structure…" Which there is. Until the State is gone these behemoth Anti-Whites entities will continue to threaten us and should be resisted by any means

>>103398

>Then I am not interested in having you as an ally. I don't care if we're "kinsmen", being of the same phenotype as me does not mean a lot to me. If we share a cultural heritage, sure, I appreciate that, but historically, natsocs have been destroyers of culture, and they still are. Bunch of slack-jawed faggots who don't know if they're cultural Christians or Wotanists this week. No thanks.

Culture comes from the Race genius. See pic related. I was simply stating a fact, you DO NOT have any inherent right to anything, force is the only thing that allows you to keep and maintain your rights. National Socialists took a bankrupt country the size of Texas and took into a new golden age which took the combined powers of Capitalism and Communism to destroy. They stood for things like beauty and honor as high ideals, NS culture is miles above Degenerate American Capitalist "culture"

>Y'all cowards don't even read Ethica Thomistica, just the blabberings of some English man larping as a Norse pirate. "Ragnar Redbeard", more like "Fagnar Fagbeard", amirite?

Funny enough St. Thomas is called out by name in MiR, almost like your Christian morals were already showing how useless they were even in the 1800's.

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 No.103407

>>103406

>Culture comes from the Race genius

No, it may be influenced by race, but to reduce it to it is retarded if you know even a small amount of history. How come the French lost their great warrior-culture? How come Anabaptism and Taboritism provoked extreme violence and cruelty in races that were not reknown for brutality before or afterwards? How come the Magyars started out as a bunch of nomadic raiders, yet the Árpáds had more saints than about any other dynasty? How come the Romans, after centuries of happily watching zoophiliac rape and blood sports in the Colosseum, suddenly developed basic decency with the Christianization?

You find tons of cultural fault lines that coincide with religious ones. That shouldn't be possible if culture is determined by race. Furthermore, there are lots of peoples that used to be indistinguishable from niggers beside their skin color, including the various Turkish peoples, the Slavs, the Rus, and - if you go back far enough - the Teutons.

>They stood for things like beauty and honor as high ideals, NS culture is miles above Degenerate American Capitalist "culture"

Nigga, they set up brothels and fought with homosexual enclaves within their ranks for their entire tenure. They tried their best to erode religion in Germany, and all their values were taken from post-French Revolution bullshit. They got their racialism and eugenicism from the anglos, Lebensraum-doctrine and probably also their tribe- and blood purity-rhetoric from the kikes, national socialism from the Czech, fascism from the Italians, and nationalism from the French Fries. Considering that Evola was a huge Hinduphile, and that the Swastika was a far eastern symbol, I wouldn't be surprised if they also had some Indian influences. Also, their plans for the Holobonga were more than a little reminiscent of the Armenian Genocide, and the Turks and the Germans had been friends for a long time, so my best guess is that the Nazis even had something Turkish about them.

>Funny enough St. Thomas is called out by name in MiR, almost like your Christian morals were already showing how useless they were even in the 1800's.

More like, "funny" how virgin nihilists objected to the scholastic chad even back then.

For real now, no idea how that tells us anything except that Ragnar Redbeard knew St Aquinas, which tells us nothing but that he was aware of the existence of one of the most eminent philosophers and theologians in the history of the West. Namedropping St Aquinas isn't a very impressive feat.

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 No.103420

>>103407

>No, it may be influenced by race, but to reduce it to it is retarded

I knew you would pull something like this, I said Culture comes from Race not that it was one in the same. A peoples Culture arises organically both because of the environment they evolve in but mostly due to their genetics which is the core of their being.

>You find tons of cultural fault lines that coincide with religious ones. That shouldn't be possible if culture is determined by race. Furthermore, there are lots of peoples that used to be indistinguishable from niggers beside their skin color, including the various Turkish peoples, the Slavs, the Rus, and - if you go back far enough - the Teutons.

Religons reflect the inherent values of the people that adopt them. Ex. Christianity has a Jewish core but it had elements of Greek & others philosophy, which along with its Universalist values made it perfect for the Imperial Romans for control and unification. Later on when the Germans were Christianized largely for Political reasons you see they imprinted their own values onto Christianity. You're comparing people like the pre-Christian Germanic tribes who had intricate metallurgy and ships capable of travelling to North America to Niggers? Come on now, thats E. Michael Jones tier shit. Turks and Slavs were only able to adapt and evolve to create civilizations because they had some modicum of intelligence inherent in them even if it's lower than Northwest Europeans. Whereas pure African Niggers have been surrounded by High-cultures for thousands of years and have never improved.

>Nigga, they set up brothels and fought with homosexual enclaves within their ranks for their entire tenure. They tried their best to erode religion in Germany, and all their values were taken from post-French Revolution bullshit. They got their racialism and eugenicism from the anglos, Lebensraum-doctrine and probably also their tribe- and blood purity-rhetoric from the kikes, national socialism from the Czech, fascism from the Italians, and nationalism from the French Fries. Considering that Evola was a huge Hinduphile, and that the Swastika was a far eastern symbol, I wouldn't be surprised if they also had some Indian influences. Also, their plans for the Holobonga were more than a little reminiscent of the Armenian Genocide, and the Turks and the Germans had been friends for a long time, so my best guess is that the Nazis even had something Turkish about them.

They used brothels for their soldiers during war to keep them from getting STD's, oh no! That really undoes the mountains of anti-Degenerate actions they took. They rooted out the open homos after using them for shock troops, just like anyone else they couldn't get rid of all of the ones in the closet. They were getting rid of Christianity for sure which is a good thing, we don't need a religion that is Jewish at its core. They adopted ideas from Racially similar people, real shocker there too. You're just reaching with the Turk/Armenian thing, your Anti-White comments make me doubt that you actually are White.

>More like, "funny" how virgin nihilists objected to the scholastic chad even back then.

>For real now, no idea how that tells us anything except that Ragnar Redbeard knew St Aquinas, which tells us nothing but that he was aware of the existence of one of the most eminent philosophers and theologians in the history of the West. Namedropping St Aquinas isn't a very impressive feat.

I mentioned it to show how your Christcuck idol has already been covered and refuted in "Might is Right", you can't disprove anything said in that book so you rely on a religion/worldview based on a Jewish tribal deity.

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 No.103427

>>103420

>I knew you would pull something like this, I said Culture comes from Race not that it was one in the same. A peoples Culture arises organically both because of the environment they evolve in but mostly due to their genetics which is the core of their being.

Looking back on it, I don't think I was too harsh in my assessment at all. What you write later on sounds exactly like you trying to reduce culture to race. Of course, you formally acknowledge other factors, but:

>Religons reflect the inherent values of the people that adopt them.

Religion is a reflection of "inherent" (in other words racial) values. That's what you reduce it too. Yes, you also acknowledge that it's a way for foreign influences to enter a culture, apparently, but that still leaves it relatively unimportant.

Now a few words on this, and that will bring me to my main point:

>You're comparing people like the pre-Christian Germanic tribes who had intricate metallurgy and ships capable of travelling to North America to Niggers? Come on now, thats E. Michael Jones tier shit. Turks and Slavs were only able to adapt and evolve to create civilizations because they had some modicum of intelligence inherent in them even if it's lower than Northwest Europeans. Whereas pure African Niggers have been surrounded by High-cultures for thousands of years and have never improved.

It's not that there was no difference between Slavs and niggers, it's that no racialist would've acknowledged that, comparing the two groups back then. Between sacrificing people to Czernoboh and constantly fighting among each other, they didn't seem very civilized. Obviously, they've proven themselves capable of higher civilization, while the niggers haven't, but that doesn't change the important fact that back then, the two were practically indistinguishable.

And that brings me to my major point: Racialist theories of history have no explanatory power, and without a racialist theory of history, racialism as an ideology looks plain silly, like economics without history of economics. I have read the mess that was The Myth of the 20th Century, every single word, and I was astounded just how arbitrary Rosenbergs assessments were. My favorite is still how he fawned over the Huguenots, these great aryans, while decrying the Taborites, those darn semites. Nevermind that the Huguenots were among the pioneers of caribbean piracy, and that the rebellion of the Taborites, for all its brutality, as easily fits a narrative of stronk aryans protesting against the semitic spirit of the Catholic Church as does the passive-aggressive bullshit of the Huguenots. He did not have any sources in his work, he never derived the heritage of the leading Taborites or Huguenots, he never undertook an honest analysis why their character was necessarily aryan or semitic. His book was basically a history book, yet throughout it, he never once made mention of any historical source.

I have also read some Evola, Metaphysics of War, and was greeted by much the same thing: Him fawning over heroism in battle, getting all euphoric over how cool Hindu sagas were, and breaking his head over how the Franks could be so badass despite being Christians and thus having adopted a "semitic" religion. The answer, of course, was that the Franks were still aryan at heart, and like you said, their religion reflected their "inherent values". Yet, the First Crusade was regarded as a pilgrimage at the time, it strongly bore on themes of penitence and redemption and was in fact regarded as a penitential enterprise. "Semitism" and "aryanism" did not seem in conflict at all, then, it looked rather more like blatant semitism brought out the most aryan that the aryans had to offer. If there were really two hearts beating in the chest of the Franks, you wouldn't have expected them to do so in such unison.

Lastly, I've read some of the relevant passages in Mein Kampf. Hitler doesn't try to deal with the history at all, he pretty much says he will leave that to the historians, then he describes his theory in the abstract, that aryans are the only race capable of creating culture and everyone else just jumps the bandwagon or actively destroys culture. Again, he does this without any historical data, and in fact, earlier, he said the despised learning historical data and only cared about narratives.

So that's three of the major proponents of the racial theory, and none of them was capable of anything approaching a half-decent historical analysis using his theories.

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 No.103428

File: 42dfafb222ae631⋯.png (1.23 MB,1194x889,1194:889,batter up larry.png)

>>103420

Continued from: >>103427

Then there is the fact that racialists cannot make their mind up about some races. Back in Hitlers days, people adored the Hindus, their complex religious philosophy and their heroic epics. Nowadays, all the racialists say when faced with an Indian is some variation of "poo in da loo!" and perhaps something about gang rape. What about the Japs? They used to be held as the main example of "mongoloids", yet the Nazis were sympathetic to them while the Americans kept pursuing this idea that the Japanese were subhumans, hence why they collected so many trophies of them but almost none of Germans. No two /pol/acks can make their mind up whether the mediterraneans are aryans or semitic or some variation of the two or something to the upper left of both. Back when I went to 4chan - the very site that made me aware of the manifold differences between blacks and whites - "sandniggers" were seen as a distinct race somewhere between blacks and whites, nevermind the fact that Afghans, the prime example of "sandniggers" in their eyes, aren't ethnically Arab, that Turks aren't Arabs and that Kurds aren't Turks and therefore that they are throwing a whole lot of ethnicities together. Nowadays, these people are silent, perhaps because 9/11 is a distant memory, and because the wars against Iraq and Afghanistan do not inspire anyone anymore.

Racialism, then, is all things to all people, and it's utterly incapable of producing anything resembling a coherent and objective history. Of course, it is great for coming up with narratives. In any historical conflict, you will be able to trace any person or idea back to the aryans or the semites if you try hard enough, you will be able to draw just the right parallels between the sagas of this and that people to reinforce your point, and highlight a few crimes here and a few acts of herosim there and you are essentially done. When the good side commits horrendous crimes, you claim that as either semitic propaganda or you stress that it was war. When the bad side does it, you claim it's semitism at its finest. Any rebellion is either an example of asiatic madness, or a heroic uprising of the aryan spirit. Always, the implication is that you just know what you're talking about, that you have learned so much about history that you have got the right overview. It is the same thing the Marxists do when they reduce history to class warfare, except that they're far clumsier with it, whereas you guys are quite skilled at dressing your narratives in appealing, heroic or even religious terms. Then, when someone comes ahead and points out that you got this and that fact wrong, that the hero of tolerance Beza actually supported the death penalty for heretics, that the aryan emperor Diocletian was a superstitious and avaricious man who burned people limb by limb for not paying their taxes, you roll your eyes, call him pedantic, and once again urge him to look at the big picture and not get lost in insignificant details. I know how this works.

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 No.103429

>>103420

>>103427

>>103428

>They used brothels for their soldiers during war to keep them from getting STD's, oh no!

That's like saying

>They got their troops waifu pillows so they wouldn't masturbate to furry porn, oh no!

They built brothels, period. End of story. It's degenerate. I made my point. You can't just ridicule the fact that they built brothels for their soldiers to whore themselves out in as if that negated the fact that they built brothels for their soldiers to whore themselves out in.

>That really undoes the mountains of anti-Degenerate actions they took.

Such as…?

>They rooted out the open homos after using them for shock troops, just like anyone else they couldn't get rid of all of the ones in the closet.

They rooted them out after they served their purpose, you mean. Hans Blüher, a proto-Nazi, saw homosexuality as the foundation of society, the Männerbünde were full of homosexuals, as was the SA. Ernst Röhm was a blazing faggot, the leader of the Munich SA was a gaylord. In fairness, Karl Ernst, the leader of the Berlin SA was a bouncer in a gay cafe, so I guess you can say he had experience in removing gays from the establishment.

>They were getting rid of Christianity for sure which is a good thing, we don't need a religion that is Jewish at its core.

And yet both Goebbels and Hitler probably were Christians, just very unenthusiastic ones, and their dealing with the Catholic Church was as Jewish as it gets. Hitler was a sycophant, drawing on Christian themes when it fit him, reassuring Bishops left and right, and he never really jumped the train of "Positive Christianity". He even ordered Goebbels not to leave the Church as that would make bad press. It was an underhanded war.

>They adopted ideas from Racially similar people, real shocker there too.

If you ask both Hitler and Rosenberg, the Czech weren't German. But more importantly, the point still stands that no aspect of their ideology was really German, yet they tried their hardest to look German. It wasn't the "pan aryan empire", it was still Germany, just without anything German about it.

>You're just reaching with the Turk/Armenian thing, your Anti-White comments make me doubt that you actually are White.

Whiter than you :^)

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 No.103430

File: f1199584e56667a⋯.jpg (32.57 KB,433x480,433:480,smug anime girl.jpg)

>>103429

Forgot pic

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 No.103433

>>103393

>Capitalist class

You're making the mistake of attributing the morality of the capitalist class (those who own capital [the means of production]) in our current cronyist system as representative of the philosophy of free market capitalism.

That is obviously not the case.

>Communism is bad for my kin

That's also a moral judgment, you're placing existential value on your race. I'm saying that you're correct to do so, and you should be philosophically consistent by affirming the reality of morality.

If you're already a creationist I presume you're supportive of intelligent design arguments, why doesn't that extend to morality?

Another answer to the original question:

Hoppe's strategy for overthrowing the state is to implement legislation to reject all federal legislation one-by-one at the local level. That's being done by the 10th amendment center and the Mises caucus of the LP on whatever issue they can.

>>103380

Harold Covington of the NWF

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 No.103435

>>103393

>Capitalist bosses told me word for word "We are a buisness we're here to make money" and said if I didn't come in I'll have to take a write-up.

What country are you from? This sounds illegal. Also, you should have workers compensation or disability to supplement any loss of income not only for you but for the business too.

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 No.103436

>>103393

Your definition of capitalism is also deficient.

Of course capitalism is unattractive if it's in those terms.

Capitalism is rightly defined as free market economics: individuals have the liberty to do whatever transactions they want with whomever they want free from molestation by the state.

If capitalism is just "hurt the little guy" and communism is "kill the whites" you're really artificially narrowing the available choices to fit a preconceived mold.

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 No.103439

>>103436

Capitalism is when the means of production are owned by individuals. This leads to them being used for profit, which leads to what OP is complaining about; the welfare of workers comes second.

Only when people own and use the means of production directly will the welfare of mankind cease to be in last place.

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 No.103440

>>103427

If you believe in hbd theory the original tribes of the Franks are not the same genetically as modern Franks; this might explain the change in their culture. The Catholic Church and the manorial farming system combined destroyed the tribal system and created the nuclear family. When you're not a in a tribal system different traits are selected for.

The reproductively successful class were honest, had reciprocal morality, and individual initiative, as opposed to clannish peoples who were tribally loyal but on the whole dishonest and potentially brutal to outsiders. This is what you find in corrupt parts of the world outside of Europe.

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 No.103441

>>103439

>Capitalism is when the means of production are owned by individuals

Not completely:

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capitalism.asp

It also requires a market economy, something primarily lacking state interference. Get rid of this interference (taxes, licensing, zoning, subsidies/quotas) then the worker would be able to save enough for capital goods.

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 No.103442

File: 45416adad635b2a⋯.jpg (7.92 KB,250x238,125:119,762F651C951A4579BAF44B2F53….jpg)

>>103439

>Capitalism is when the means of production are owned by individuals

>Only when people own and use the means of production directly

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