No.102440
I've read quite a few free market authors like Rothbard, Mises, Sowell, and Hazlitt and they all make one grave mistake: the false assumption that a consumer is a rational being making rational choices. The consumer is no longer rational when companies are allowed to use all the psychological tricks in the book when it comes to advertising. Companies use celebrities, degeneracy, loud music, catchy music in advertisements to undermine the rationality of the consumer.
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No.102442
>>102440
OP is clearly an irrational agent by his own writing and can be safely ignored.
Being a dick to OP aside, how is being misinformed equal to being irrational? Humans still make rational decisions. If they have to choose between eating or partying, most people would choose eating (unless they don't mind going without food in order to get that next binge drinking and partying fix). The fact that humans are able to regret their actions and thus correct themselves going forward also suggests some rationality. The fact that various companies have stricter standards than government mandates also suggests rationality, even if those stricter standards are because they fear government increasing those mandates and forcing them to adopt stricter policy at massive costs down the line, they're still acting rationally. They might not share your rationality, but they're still acting rationally in their own interests, even if they think binge drinking and cheap sex is more in their interests than eating healthy and staying fit. Natural Selection The Free Market solves that one if someone is wrong, and they've had usually about 12-20 years to realize what's a good idea, what can be trusted, etc. I'm relatively sure you're full of shit and at most you might have skimmed a brief synopsis or been to some seminar about those individuals (or god forbid you get your information from /pol/ image quotes), but even if we assume those people are irrational, doesn't it go to follow that so are the patients running the asylum?
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No.102444
If an agent is not rational I see no reason to place any value at all on its life. You may as well worry about the well-being of cattle.
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No.102447
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No.102449
When libertarian philosophers say that a consumer is a "rational" being they do not mean that the consumer plans all of his actions out for the next twenty years using a priori reasoning and mathematical proofs. It simply means that people will act in the manner in which they see as most beneficial to them.
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No.102454
>>102440
> the false assumption that a consumer is a rational being making rational choices.
Neither Rothbard nor Mises make that assumption–or at least, they don't define "rational" in the way you do, by stipulating that every market actor is a Vulcan. Rather, men are rational in that:
>men have desires they wish to fulfill
>they prioritize some desires over others
>they will fulfil the more urgent desires first
>men have different means they can use to fulfill their desires (ends)
>they will select that means which they perceive the most expedient in fulfilling the desired end
That's it. Austrian "rationality" in market actors is only concerned with means and ends. None of what you stipulate prevents consumers from using means to fulfill ends. All you've shown is that some people do not have the ends you think they should have, and/or are not using the means you think they should use to fulfill those ends.
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No.102458
>>102442
rational as they may be, we are still animals. in a post-civ society, people can be tempted to kill one another if no laws are present, a soft hand of authority must be given to prevent this
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No.102460
>>102458
People are tempted to kill one another even if laws are present; they're called "wars".
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No.102461
>people are not rational enough to make good economic decisions
>therefore we should give a small group of people a monopoly on judging and enforcing the law, which will magically make them rational
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No.102478
>>102460
and war is big business. more money for you, less for the individual.
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No.102479
>>102461
people are capable of rationality, people essentially though are self-centered. if this hurts your bum, you can recontextualize yourself back to reddit.
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No.102484
>>102458
And I quote from the anon you responded to:
>but even if we assume those people are irrational, doesn't it go to follow that so are the patients running the asylum?
Angel theory is extremely irrational.
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No.102485
>>102479
>people are self centered
Another reason not to have government
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No.102495
>>102479
Reddit sucks harder than your mom
>>102484
No, but why shouldn't they? The entire deterministic progression from the civil rights movement was a death knell. No reason to draw the line anymore. Those deemed insane today would be leaders and military commanders centuries ago. I sense we'll loop back to that soon enough.
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No.102496
And what is rational anyways? Most rationalism today constitutes a worship of science and a disrespect for the arts. Ludovici stated such things and I agree
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No.102497
>>102495
Just realized I responded to myself with the first post. Shit I am not up to par today
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No.102515
>>102478
>War is big business.
War is expensive, and the only people who profit from it (the "military-industrial complex") are those who can convince the government to grant them exclusive monopolies over markets for specific goods and services in the name of "national security". Do you think any major global war would have happened without nationalistic propaganda or conscription? If people were given the choice whether or not to kill other people and bomb the shit out of other nations?
>More money for you, less for the individual.
I don't understand this.
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No.102517
>>102515
Trustbusting is fine but you can nationalize shit at any time. That's basically the only two options you have.
And I was probably having brain fart meant to say more money for big business, less money for individual. That's better.
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No.102604
>>102454
This, goddamn. How do we keep having the same conversation? It's not like they don't explain what that means in the texts. Fuck, economic illiterates piss me off sometimes.
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No.102987
>>102440
>the false assumption that a consumer is a rational being making rational choices.
whether or not we are rational has no bearing on whether or not the market is rational.
It could very well be the case that we are irrational, but it wouldn't matter.
The laws of supply and demand are not dictated by rationality. They are dictated by simple arithmetic and opportunity cost.
The only reason why we assume rational behavior is because there is no such working model of irrational behavior.
Currently, modern econ is working on how rational or irrational are we.
In business, you can hire an economist specialized in this topic to see if you are behaving rationally, and if not what you could possibly do to correct that behavior.
For the consumer, you have apps on your phone to track your spending habits, etc.
Overall, though, whether you are rational or irrational has no bearing on how the market behaves.
https://m.cdn.blog.hu/el/eltecon/file/JPE-Becker-1962.pdf
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No.103046
rationality of the consumer is just that. rationality. if he s stupid enough to pay 1000$ for a pair of shoes he s an idiot but good job to the company because it determined this idiot to give them 1000$. free market is about making money. as long as you dont hold a gun in front of someone s face to make em buy a product i see no problem. we dont need government intervention into market if that s what your suggesting we do.
the beauty of the free market is that you dont get to decide the value of your labour. it has to be traded for another person s labour so the prices will balance themselves.
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No.103050
The subject is no longer rational when his rulers are allowed to use all the psychological tricks in the book: state idols, civic religion, national anthems, political campaigns—all are used by the elite to undermine the rationality of the ruled.
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No.103051
>>102604
It's almost as if they don't actually read the books.
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No.103056
>>103050
If you're being ruled your rationality is already compromised in the first place
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