76a876 No.680976 [View All]
Stolen from: >>>/n/787388
https://archive.fo/GgOcc
>Nothing the US does will make Turkey abandon its deal with Moscow to purchase S-400 air defense systems, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said, as Washington keeps threatening Ankara with sanctions.
>The purchase of the Russian-made weapons has long been a point of contention in relations between the two NATO allies. The US has repeatedly threatened Ankara with various punitive measures should they not abandon the deal. It has already canceled training for Turkish pilots learning to fly American F-35 fighter jets as well as threatened to kick Turkey out of the multi-billion-dollar fighter jet program altogether.
>Turkey, however, has stood defiant of US pressure and vowed to retaliate against any US sanctions.
>“No matter what sanctions decision, no matter which statement comes from the US, we have already bought the S-400,” Cavusoglu told journalists on Monday. The only question related to the deal still being discussed is when the air defense systems will be delivered to Turkey, he said.
>The minister also said that Turkey cannot rely on NATO in its national defense and accused Ankara’s Western allies of leaving it all alone in its hour of need.
>Turkey urgently needs air defense. We cannot say ‘NATO should protect us’ if there is an attack because, let’s be honest, NATO can only protect 30% of Turkish airspace. It was the US, Germany and the Netherlands that pulled out Patriots when we needed them the most.
____________________________
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818a39 No.682476
>>682468
My understanding is that the US doesn't have advanced land-based AA missiles because it doesn't share a land border with any credible enemies.
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6a1fa2 No.682477
>>682468
When it gets really insane is that a number of countries that are in NATO that do field S-300 (that they got Russia to modernized recently) and can/will upgrade to S-400 if they want (Slovakia, Bulgaria and Greece… Greece even has Tor too).
The actual problem is "Turkey isn't doing what Washington tell them", which should tell you what NATO really is meant to be (loyal auxiliaries of the Judeo-American Empire)
>Why wouldn't it be the other way around, given Turkey is NATO member?
The fact that Russia (that is notoriously paranoid) has no export restrictions should be a sign that at least they feel it won't happen or that there won't be any easy solution. Maybe they're wrong, but at the very least it shows confidence in their gear.
What does that tells you about the F-35?
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9e8088 No.682486
>>682449
>Good tactics always trump good gear
True unless your gear restricts you from devising useful counters to non-retarded enemy tactics.
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0e1c01 No.682489
>>681064
The Eternal Leaf strikes again
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0bbc06 No.682541
>>682448
Except this is not his bodyguard, it's your daughter.
Congrats, you just shoot your daughter. Thankfully you didn't miss.
There's nothing be proud about fucking friendly fire.
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0bbc06 No.682543
>>682477
>What does that tells you about the F-35?
F-35 is already used worldwide with actual running time.
You can shit on them and they will always be there.
But your S-300 and S-400 magic missiles conveniently do not work when they are needed,
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533ccc No.682578
>>682477
>What does that tells you about the F-35?
has stealth anything ever been put to real world test, or even tested on a secure Area 51 type range by well equipped security-cleared skeptics?
I keep hearing about how its radar sig is very small but if its still there its still there.
Like Jay Leno said back in Reagan admin "It makes a huge bomber look like a little bird on radar, yeah, a little bird flying over the North Pole at 400mph at 4am."
Unless you also got decoys that can maintain a flight path that the jet could take (while jet banks away) I don't see the point of stealth. (I'm pretty sure any AA missile could easily be programed to ignore decoy flares that quickly drop from 600mph to near 0 and free fall).
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9e8088 No.682609
>>682543
>You can shit on them and they will always be there.
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891f78 No.682616
>>682578
>has stealth anything ever been put to real world test
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zolt%C3%A1n_Dani
Cue shitposting.
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6a1fa2 No.682623
>>682578
>has stealth anything ever been put to real world test
In Serbia in 1999. And it took them a while but the serbs air defense did figure out a way.
>I keep hearing about how its radar sig
You can optimize a plane to considerably reduce it's radar signature on certain band and a certain angle but you can't do it for all bands or all angles.
It's like trying to make the plane actually "not there"… which obviously isn't physically possible.
Also the idea of reducing signatures is just that "reducing". The simplest solution is making bigger radars (more miniaturized arrays) feed by more powerful generators.
And radars today are so powerful there are multiple systems out there that detect RAM coating as while it doesn't leave a signature, on a very powerful system… it leaves a shadow (which is just as unnatural).
Smart stealthy design is you apply it where you can (as any reduction of signature is always good), meaning mostly when designing the airframe and you stop when it's costing you flying performance or ungodly amount of maintenance. Because it isn't worth the hassle.
That's what we do for ships.
Do you know what maintenance look like on a F-22/F-35? And why their operational flight hours are so low?
Their external surface is covered in a light coating of expensive RAM (everyone know this right?). Which is a carbon black/iron nanosphere/graphene or something akin compound. Basically it's a metal-ish glue.
So when you need to access a panel you need to get a sander and locate the panel you need to open and find where the super strong metallic super expensive masking tape around the edge of the panel is and the under which the screws are located… expose the tape and peel off exposing the panel screws and lines. Only then can you unscrew/remove the panels and make the checks or changes or repairs/replacements.
Then you put the panel back on, you tape over the joints (with a high heat blower and the special expensive masking tape that need to not peel of in the face of supersonic wind and high speed maneuvers) and then you spray your RAM coating (super expensive metal glue) over it all.
Then have to wait for the RAM to cure and harden (duh!).
Which clearly due to it's metallic properties can only take somewhere between 24 and 36 hours (in a climate controlled hangar obviously).
And that RAM coating is most of the RCS reduction.
Does that sound like something you want to do on war plane?
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65e211 No.682626
>>682578
For a fighter, stealth means the enemy sees you from 50km instead of 100km. It's expensive and fucks with the plane's speed and maneuverability, but we still do it because it's the only way US fighters have a prayer in hell of surviving contact with their Russian ccounterparts.
Bombers are a totally different matter, they can be extremely stealthy with very little performance impact so it's just a matter of costs (and strategic bombers are valuable enough that it's almost always worth the money, unless you plan to use them exclusively to bomb undefended sandniggers).
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40c262 No.682681
>>682626
It's expensive, fucks with the plane and specifically is entirely ineffective against the Russian radar system, which has been (unlike ours) designed with doctrine and purpose in mind, and is easily capable of low-band target acquisition.
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9e8088 No.682792
>>682626
>>682682
Sometimes I wonder why the US seems so hellbent on destroying its own military in the name of Judeo-capitalism, especially with their greatest ally still relying on them for protection and foreign policies.
It's not like they couldn't have blown a trillion shekels via the F-23 and ASF-14 programs in exchange for getting planes that a sane person would consider flightworthy at the very least, but instead they invested an entire spaceprogram's worth of shekels on a fat piggu suicide booth.
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818a39 No.682797
>>682792
The plan is to move the whole operation to China once America has been sucked dry.
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3569c8 No.682841
>>682792
>Entire space program
It only costs about 100 million to send a rocket into space, anon. That's based on NASA numbers, private companies do it even cheaper.
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9e8088 No.682872
>>682841
But for the price of 1 F-35 program NASA could've build at least two O'Neill cylinders and filled them with gay niggers because globohomo.
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23d6dc No.682880
>>682797
>2050
>Jews come to china
>Start doing (((the usual)))
>Can't own media
>Can't climb in government
>Chinese dislike the merchant tricks and just exterminate them by flattening jews into the pavement with tanks
Can't wait.
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99e9a1 No.682890
>>682880
You do know who put Mao into power right?
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9e8088 No.682892
>>682880
>CY+30
>Jews begin the great migration to the next greatest host ally after the controlled demolition of the US
>they arrive in China
>smog up the ass
>piss poor healthcare
>distrustful and often hostile population whose members don't want to cede their social status to long-nosed foreigners, no empathy for (((fellow whites)))
>biohazards everywhere
<Jews grow sterile and/or die in accidents one after the other
<they have the money to pay for healthcare but Chink doctors see this and start ripping them off until they die penniless, demand six million shekels per removed foreskin
<non-Israeli Jew population decreases by 80% over the next 25 years
<The Jewish minority remnant in China migrates to India, the few that are too poor or sick get put in mixed race apartments by the Chinese government where they get raped by aids ridden niggers with intact foreskins
<the newly arrived Indian kike minority dies off rapidly from food poisoning and dysentery
<the last kike alive wishes desperately that his predecessors hadn't genocided all the whites as an Iranian nuke hits Tel Aviv and he pukes his guts out before falling into the Ganges and drowning in liquid shit
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65e211 No.682911
>>682792
I sort of suspect that there's some sort of ridiculous day-one planned obsolescence scheme going on here, I wouldn't be surprised at all if we end up replacing them within a decade. Convair pulled a trick like that back in the 50s, they were marketing the F-106 as a replacement for our obsolete F-102s before the F-102 actually entered service.
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71c73d No.682963
>>682626
>stealth means the enemy sees you from 50km instead of 100km
Maybe I'm just a retard, but wouldn't it be far cheaper and more effective to focus on active jamming rather than passive reduction of RCS if that's the goal?
Granted, arguing that [insert ridiculous thing] is cheaper than the F35 has become a bit of a meme, but wouldn't a slightly larger airframe (maybe not Vulcan tier, but an F-111 perhaps) hold enough electronics to render your opponents radar largely worthless as well as the missiles it needs to do its job as a fighter?
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6a1fa2 No.682976
>>682911
That's definitely possible.
But it's gonna be a shitstorm because, unlike then, a fair chunk of the F-35 R&D bill was paid by US allies.
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cac193 No.683018
>>682997
>vacuum inversion wave
What is it?
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818a39 No.683019
>>683018
Zero-point energy happens and the universe essentially pops like a bubble. It's fairly unlikely but if it does happen there isn't much anyone can do about it.
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991230 No.683025
>>682997
>Building a 200km long maglev track 80km from the ground is cheap and easy.
Yeah how about, no.
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9e8088 No.683027
>>683025
Hey, at least NASA might start taking SSTO research seriously.
Any further cylinders would be constructed in situ by guys from the already existing cylinder anyway so it should balance itself out even if building the first cylinder takes 6 million Space Shuttle launches.
>>682997
>a few billion
A completely unrealistic goal what with all the subcontractors, scientific institutions and unforeseen circumstances involved because no one's tried building a proper isolated biosphere in outer space before.
Maybe the baseline cost for building the initial skeleton structure of an O'Neill cylinder could be made cheap enough at some point, but to get it running you'll have to move people and equipment there considerably adding to the price even if the initial population is small.
It's also unknown how long it'll take for each cylinder to be self-sufficient in terms of food and for the economy to grow enough for the colonists to no longer be reliant on external taxpayer money infusions.
What would life on a /k/-administered O'Neill colony be like?
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904af5 No.683077
>>682217
You do know only white makes pay a net positive in taxes here so that changes to costs averages to an already targeted demographic.
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904af5 No.683078
>>682880
Who the fuck do you think the economic advisors were in the past? They act the same.
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4bdb74 No.683621
>>681637
Instead of an animegirl, why couldn't it have shown itself as the man it once was?; donning his flightsuit.
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a4e5a2 No.683645
>>682379
Israeli F-16s stopped invading Syrian airspace when an S-200 shot one down in 2018. Now both their F-15s and 16s just skirt around over Lebanon and Jordan and exclusively use standoff munitions and glide bombs, or they send in F-35s or spoof US transponder codes if they NEED to fly over Syrian clay (which they don't, really, since nothing Syrian or Lebanese actually posits a strategic threat).
The Syrians COULD shoot at Israelis over Lebanon and Jordan with the S-300s, but they don't because it'll just be the same story as the Pantsirs - Israeli SEAD will overwhelm them via saturation and ECM, and a million vatniks will then kill themselves. Syria will be ready to use their S-300s against NATO and Israel's planes when they not only have enough of them, and enough Buks and Pantsirs and retrofits (new radars, UAVS, etc.) for all their other shitty missiles to complement the 300s in a layered, integration fashion, along. This probably won't happen until the current war is over, they just can't afford to.
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e5eba0 No.683658
>>682963
Active anythings are basically extremely bright beacons that are very easy to home onto from as far not obscured by the horizon. Stealth among other things is 100% radiosilence and passive everything.
>>682626
It would be a shame if they had missiles that can travel 50 kilometers ahead without a target and engage once they actually find anything.
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24e388 No.683660
>>682841
Sending shit into low earth orbit is about $5 000 per pound. Assuming average amerifat is 200 pounds, that's a million bucks per person. For a trillion bucks you can only send skywards one million people, excluding the habitat.
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24e388 No.683662
>>683018
A conjectured phenomenon where vacuum would transition to a lower energy state, where such transition would trigger the same transition of the adjacent space. Not known to have ever happened in the entire history of the universe, nor known if it's even physically possible. Either way it's nothing to be worried about, either it will never happen, or it obliterate everything without warning.
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9e8088 No.683669
>>683660
If it takes half a million burgercoins to send an oldtype burger to an O'Neill cylinder or at least a LEO cargo terminal, how many newtype migrants would one be able to import from said O'Neill cylinder for the same price?
>>683621
<your digitzed soul will never find fullfillment in cyberspace by making SHTF real via highjackings of fighter planes and rightful clay together with your /k/omrades
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cf3683 No.683840
The first shipment of S400s has arrived in Turkey.
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bdcecd No.683857
>>683840
How much warning will they need to take down the entire Greek airforce now?
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001912 No.683888
>>683886
Surely even the roaches will succeed in shooting down at least one hostile aircraft, if only by chance. I mean, they may be shit, but shit isn't unlucky.
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2580bf No.684701
>>682578
Daily reminder Serbs shot down a F-117 which is stealthier than F-35, with a missile from the 1960s mounted on a truck in the 90s.
The F-35 can therefore be knocked down with a 1960s missile mounted on a truck in the 20s.
Moreover, F-35 from the front has a lower stealth than F-117, and from the back the F-35 has a stealth value equivalent to F-18ASH.
So it's basically like a 4.5++ not a 5th gen.
Modern radars? They've had 60 years of improvement, and over 20 years of knowing that stealth exists and focusing on countering it. First response is stronger radars, which managed to detect stealth aircraft without a problem but only for large countries. Second response was different frequencies, let even smaller countries detect stealth aircraft easily. Third response was high bandwidth integration of radars, so high power multifrequency radars could share their data and detect and target stealth aircraft more easily. Fourth step in detection was adding EWAR ships to blind and even to detect emissions from stealth aircraft, after all any aircraft that can't sense its environment or communicate is essentially useless. Sixth step is quantum infrared detectors that render all stealth useless as long as the laws of thermodynamics hold. Seventh step is passive radar, which maps the aircraft against microwave background radiation, which will render stealth useless so long as the remnants of the big bang are around.
So you see… we went like a dozen steps forward in stealth detection, and F-35 is a step back in stealth.
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17d660 No.684984
>>683857
The Hellenic Air Force is immune to slavaboo SAMemes.
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714c84 No.684987
>>684701
And the magic S-300 cannot shoot down an F-16, if it's piloted by a jew.
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e192ed No.684990
>>684984
with ND I don't think we even stand a chance anymore. Things were already about to collapse with syriza, now with ND which is syriza 2.0 the collapse will continue until our military becomes utterly worthless.
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714c84 No.684993
>>684990
It always gets worse until it gets better.
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2580bf No.685019
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>684987
This will launch on Tel Aviv long before S-400 is used on an Israeli F-16, but I don't expect a smol heda vietnamese monkey to understand political concerns.
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2185c3 No.685034
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71c73d No.685050
>>684984
If you have no aircraft then it is impossible for your opponent to destroy your aircraft.
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2580bf No.685151
>>684984
The hellenic air force uses a battalion (~100 missiles) of S-300 on Crete and is the reason why Turkey didn't just take all those islands, the complex protects about 1/2 of them closest to Turkey.
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17d660 No.685165
>>685151
The issue is that a well trained, experienced and intelligent pilot with a 4th gen fighter can always fool a SAM, as demonstrated by Greek F-16 pilots in excersizes against joint Israeli-American air-defenses. Sandnigger pilots are none of those things and their turdroach subspecies only had experience before King Roach put them all in jail for the coup. Also White-ish people with two-digit IQ can properly and creatively use groundborne air-defenses as demonstrated by Serbia. The best of sandniggers in Baghdad could not even aim their AA guns where the radar was putting the crosspiece and instead tried to shoot enemy aircraft by centering them in their sights.
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17d660 No.685166
>>685050
>no aircraft
We actually have more than even the UK until the F-35 enters service.
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2580bf No.685255
>>683027
nuclear pulse propulsion
a single npp earth to orbit tug could blast 100,000 tonnes of material into HIGH otbitals beyond geosynchronous. thats enough for the framework and factories needed to build hundreds of oneil cylinders, if even a single nickel iron asteroid could be finagled into space.
a few of those launches and you could put all of america into space easily.
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9e257e No.685280
>>681214
>>681215
>>681216
>>681217
I like that the meta for winning a war against the US now is just to hold out long enough for all our fighter planes to self destruct.
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