/k/ - Weapons

>>680976

When will Israel cancel its own F-35 orders?

>>680978

Free planes are free planes.

>>680979

but they literally holocaust the pilot

>>680976

>we're buying some shit

<NUH UH YOU AREN'T

>…we are

<NO! OR ELSE!

Doesn't the US see that Turkey cannot backtrack on this even if it wanted to? It'd mean showing to everyone, including its own population, that they have no sovereignity are are just a vassal. Really, the whole thing seems bizarre on the diplomatic level. US is basically openly threatening Turkey for being a bad goy; why the fuck are they doing that? There are so many other ways to put pressure on Turks without looking like a massive asshole even to normalfaggots.

The F-35 is the most jewed military project on the planet.

>>680986

> sovereignty

Why the fuck join NATO then?

>You won't get our terrible planes if you buy some good AA

>if you do not buy our piles of literal shit instead of buying one of the best AA systems, if not the best, on this planet, we will throw a spergfit

Stupid fucking mutts, lol.

>>680986

They'e afraid that Turkey having business relations to Russia combined with building parts of the F-35, means Russia will end up with those F-35 plane part plans or something worse. Basically it's a case of "you're closer to Russia than to us, so don't you even LOOK at them since we can't spy on you 24/7!"

>>680991

to stop communism terror

>>680997

This.

If you look up the specs and testing results their stealth fighter is much much more capable.

>>680997

B-b-but don't they need Internet Explorer? Or what about the data collection system, stealth, or body specifications that don't work? Surely the Ruskies are exactly like the Chinese and will steal anything?

>>680997

>>680996

Some of the tech in it might be worth it.

But then why make that tech in Turkey in the first place.

Are people in the US are actually assuming Turks won't immediately sell this to the highest bidder???

And besides are we really thinking that Russia cannot make shit similar or better to what the Turkish industry is capable of???

The whole thing is an insane hissy fit.

>>681029

>The whole thing is an insane hissy fit.

The whole thing reeks of insecure politicians desperately trying to save face and maintain the pretense that the F35 is the greatest thing to ever leave the ground. Is there any reason that the Turks wouldn't be better off just buying SU-57's instead?

Of course the Turks want the S-400, only a retard would think someone with us next to them would prefer buying some shitty planes over superior air-defenses. The Greek airforce is among the best out there, and the turks - who want a war with us - wouldn't stand a chance without proper AA. They're already incapable of competing with our navy, it would be a nightmare to also being incapable of dealing with our pilots.

>>681031

Well not really besides the fact that Russia wouldn't sell them.

Russia has no problem exporting top of the line AA as they don't plan to invade anyone anytime soon but when it comes to more offensive weapons outside of their circle of friends (China, Algeria, India, ex-soviet states still on good terms) they don't sell top shelf.

Armenia is a key Russian ally in the transcaucasus region, Turkey isn't against finishing the genocide, so anything offensive is probably off the table.

But it's not like replacing Turkish F-4 by Su-30MKM wouldn't be a colossal improvement… for less money.

What I'm more interested in is why the Russians are willing to sell an air defense system to a NATO country. Wouldn't waiting for the collapse of NATO (that is to say, the US falling out of it) and then cooperating with the now-free Greeks in securing the two shores of the Bosphorus be a more sensible strategy for a country with a history of claiming to be "the third Rome"?

>>681039

D&C.

What I hate is how the turks are applying realpolitik, Bismarck style, and is now profitting from both sides trying to court it.

>>681039

Turkey controls the bosphorus. Not Greece.

Also eastern Turkey is where the US bombers need to park to bomb Russia nuclear installations.

Flipping Turkey would mean clearing a serious threat from the board. Being friends with Greece due to historical reasons while feeling nicer doesn't do much for Russia.

>>681039

>What I'm more interested in is why the Russians are willing to sell an air defense system to a NATO country

Do you remember the Cuban Missile Crisis? It happened as a response to the US basing missiles in Turkey. The only reason Turkey (that well known country in the North Atlantic) is in NATO is because it's very close to Russia and has the geographic capability to block the straits at Constantinople and Canakkale, effectively neutralising the Russian Black Sea fleet without sinking a single ship. If Russia can get Turkey to take a single step away from NATO that's a big strategic win for them, and Turkey is happy to have two major powers competing to have them on side too.

>>681039

>(((NATO)))

>anything but a joke

Created by mutts and (((anglos))), what did you expect? Most countries with a working economy not entirely in the shitter yet intentionally underpaid every year for this sham of a project. Only retarded shitholes where their women are pimped out would actually contribute to (((NATO))).

>>681045

gotta save those shekels for Ahmed and Jamal

>>681045

spergkike is right for once so just for today he won't get banned

>>681041

I know, I meant conquering its shores, not securing it. Although wiping Turkey from the map by Greeks and Russians would pretty fucking much mean securing the Bosphorus.

>>681042

Turkeys proximity to Russia is self-evident, but I thought the Russians should be more careful about who they are selling missiles and that playing a more longterm strategy might be wiser to do.

>>681044

>>681045

Yeah, NATO is a joke gone wrong. Only ZOG scheming could keep countries and nations with interests completely opposing each other together. One is still better off keeping up a strong and effective military force. Pulling an army out of your nations collective ass right after the main ZOG falls sounds impossible to me.

>>681050

>I thought the Russians should be more careful about who they are selling missiles

<Russia sells SAMs to Turkey

<Turkey gains better air defence

<Russia improves its relationship with one of the loosest parts of NATO

Russia still comes out ahead in that exchange. I'd imagine they're playing a long game that ends with Turkey either passing info to Moscow (more than they are already at least), entirely disassociated from NATO, or possibly even as an open Russian ally.

>>681054

>Russia still comes out ahead in that exchange.

Absolutely, just the D&C is worth it.

Arguably just selling some for profit is worth it. Russia isn't the US they can't just print money and have (((bankers))) pretend nothing is happening, since buys a LOT of SAM batteries, any paying customer sales is always welcome for the state budget.

People tend to forget that the -stan countries have a fully integrated air-defense with Russia (like Canada and the US), so they get the same discount.

Scratch them and there isn't that many people buying.

>>680996

which doesn't examplain why they try to literally threaten Turkey into submission. That's an incredibly retarded approach to use in Middle East. Submitting would be a show of weakness, something no muzzie, and especially king Roach, can afford to do.

>>681064

You are full of shit. "I couldn't care less" is the saying and means you don't give a crap.

>>681063

It's kikes, military contractors headed by kikes, and retarded boomers caring about "muh investments" and "muh greatest ally" and "we numbah won, we da best".

It's all fucked and anyone who wants to actually try and fix things is suicided by glowniggers.

Living here and actually seeing how fucked it is will turn you into an alcoholic quickly.

Best thing to hope for in the US doing something really stupid, collapsing, and taking the rest of clownworld with it.

>>681062

I thought that was standard practice when selling any military gear more significant than a rifle to a foreign governments. If it isn't then it should be, especially when you're selling to Turkey.

>>681064

>I couldn't care less

<I do not care at all, as I am incapable of caring any less than I currently do.

>I could care less

<I must care at least a little bit, as I could hypothetically care less than I currently do.

Do you understand that a statement cannot mean the same thing as its antonym?

>tl;dr: -1 =/= 1

>>681064

"I could care less" means you care too much, you half-breeded eskimo chink.

>>681175

SK is to China as Turkey is to Russia.

>>681179

Lol no we have waaaaaay better relations with Russia than turkey ever could.

>>681155

the eternal leafjeet

Jesus fuck, we should start buying Russian shit right away.

>>681175

>>681181

It's the same tech, but the export S-400 is the "medium" version, aka the S-350 in Russian service, more missiles, cheaper, really meant to shoot planes, perfectly fine to shoot SRBM with it.

Burgers are literally too stupid to realize it.

Seriously, they think that since Russia has a good relationship with NK and China, they HAVE to have a bad relationship with SK.

Except it's not how the worlds of adults works.

>>681155

>if you couldn't care less why are you mentioning it?

To explain to the retard trying to push his nonsense that you don't give a shit about him or his points and that he should shut the fuck up.

>>681217

The F-35 is like that Pentagon Wars movie, only even more retarded and expensive.

>>680976

How is it threatening to not sell a 100 million dollar suicide booth on wings to someone?

If anything, the US should threaten to steal all of Turkey's planes and replace them with F35s if they buy the S-400.

>>681222

>custom made helmets for single pilot

Jesus fucking Christ. They're not even pretending this shit isn't robbery.

>>681225

Custom made helmets aren't that bad of an idea, really. It's easy and relatively cheap compared to the plane, and could keep people from stealing it.

>>681261

>>681225

Why not just take a regular helmet and line it with that memory foam stuff?

Then give the pilot a sticker book or a basic art set to decorate it.

See, I made custom helmets for cheap.

>>681033

Stealth alone could be a devastating advantage against us but it doesn't suit their style of testing the waters with constant airspace harassments.

>>681275

They can be stealthy for the handful of minutes they can close their bomb bays without either setting off the bombs or overheating the cooling fuel.

>>681275

It's a very stealthy plane. Probably the stealthiest. You can't see the plane anymore if it blows up.

>>681276

>stealth suicide bombers

>not a winning strategy

And if you find a sucker who will actually buy them everyone involved wins.

>>681266

>>681225

>>681261

To be fair you could perfectly have a bunch of adjustable foams in the shell, scan the pilot head with a 3d scan (the kind they use all the time for motion capture) and 3D print the foam to a perfect fit.

The machine would be pricey, but you just buy one per logistical airbase or something.

Or you could do it old school with variously sized buffer foams, that isn't really hard, they could do it for grunts too. Properly fitted shock absorbers is a must have to reduce head trauma.

>>681275

It's so stealthy you can never see it in combat as no operator is insane enough to deploy it outside of its climate-controlled hangar.

>>681637

it was cool until

>strong AI in the form of an anti-semitic anime girl

>buy Russian arms and you don’t get F-35s

Wow, sounds like a win-win, is Russia actually trying to help western militaries are is it just that the kikes leading the US are literal room-temp IQ mongs?

>>682050

Trump just calls off the sanctions.

So now CIA will get to open up the S-400 to see the magic inside.

>>681214

2mm accuracy, if it's even as good as claimed, is pretty atrocious when you're tracking eye movement. must be nausea city in that thing.

>>682074

>Also lets be fucking honest here, Turks will get S300PMU relabeled as S400E for export. Russia wont provide up to date equipment that makes up 3/4 of their mobile long range air defense, even with S500 Gamechanger right around the corner.

Ah yes, the monkey model argument, so news.

No one is going to war with Russia in the first place so they can throw all these monkey models around and hype them up, no one cares.

>>682074

>even with S500 Gamechanger right around the corner

Maybe I missed out on something, but how is a vodka powered THAAD going to be a 'gamechanger'?

>>682122

THAAD is a reversed-engineered SA-12, it's designed like it's 1984 to intercept flying trashcans like the Norks not-Pershings (nobody else find it hilarious that NK has somehow access to almost all the cold war US missiles design, yet people keep saying they're Scud copies…).

S-500 is anti-ICBM, anti-hypersonic, anti-LEO defense.

>>682126

I find all of your talk straight out of fucking slav tele marketing.

What do you think of the Armata?

>>682126

Does it also brew coffee and iron your shirt?

>>682134

Yeah, m8, we will see when ONE of your S-500 slav magic are put to use.

>It's completely overkill against planes and isn't meant for them.

Does this mean planes will just fly in and kill them?

>>682135

You have no idea what integrated air defense are. Or anything military or weapon related. Or what is English.

Please stop posting

>>682137

I smell butthurt.

I straight out dislike you and your fucking slav marketing m8.

>>682146

Seeing is believing.

So far there's nothing to believe in the slav missiles magic. It's just word, word and word.

>>682148

What would be the most efficient way to false flag the US and Russia into direct military confrontation so we can verify the claims about Russian AA posted in this bread?

>>682153

S-500 in Syria vs F-35 of Israel.

There. Game set match.

>>682154

>AA missile designed for the purpose of shooting down ICBMs

>hurr use it to shoot down planes too

I know the agent orange fucked your brain up, but goddamn.

>>682155

Well, there's no country on the globe who wants to rain ICBM on Russia right now.

Or any raining any ICBM at all.

>>681031

>Is there any reason that the Turks wouldn't be better off just buying SU-57's instead?

There’s the fact that only 4 or so were made, the project was canceled a year ago, and it was only a PR pony show like most of Russia’s “advanced weapon systems”

Meanwhile you have a buildout of literally thousands of F-35s, because the F-35 is an actual production plane.

You also need to realize that the F-35 is the single-engine budget jet. Not a pure bred fighter plane like the F-15 or F-22.

Most people who shit on the F-35 are idiots or Russian Internet defense force. They like to bring up out-dated test plane reports, or make up a ton of argumentative bullshit, or they complain about the cost. (Which isn’t really relevant since the USA has bazinga levels of money to spend. This is why the states can buildout thousands of F-35’s while Russia struggles to hit 800 fighter aircraft even when they cost a third of the price)

The reality is the F-35 is an incremental upgrade. Not a quantum leap in raw performance like the F-22 but good enough. The problem is that the wonderful globalists at Lockheeb had the brilliant idea of spreading out production at a global scale. Of course this lead to issues like what we are seeing with Turkey. Hopefully this embarrassing drama will teach military leadership a lesson about outsourcing weapon systems.

As far as everyone else’s aircraft programs:

Recon Drones are easy to make so basically everyone has one. Won’t do much good in a fight against an actual enemy, but is good for spying on and missile-ing terrorists.

For fighter jets China is still in design phase for 5th gen. Japan is ready for production phase on 5th gen but lacks the legal means to actually start production. EU is to busy fingering their butthole to do anything involving guns. Nordic states like Sweden are in production phase of 4th gen but aren’t even in the design phase of 5th gen.

Turkey is now entering the design phase of 5th gen.

And Russia, oh dear. Russia has had a really embarrassing go with fighter planes recently. They were floating around their unicorn plane with the 57 but they had to cancel it eventually. Now they can only settle for 4th gen. So their flaming garbage fire of an aircraft program is basically is basically stuck at Sweden’s level for the foreseeable future.

In fact the reason why the F-22 was cancelled was because Russia never came up with an equivalent. Why bother with this expensive F-22 when a Tomcat still has parrity with all of Russia’s inventory? If China starts making planes that can beat a tomcat than you can expect the F-22 program to be revived. It will just be under a different name with a few updated systems. F-23 or something.

In the meantime the US will just keep refreshing the F-15 program until Russia puts their money where their mouth is and stops LARPing as a super power or if China/EU make a plane that can actually challenge the the Tomcat the same way the F-22 can.

>>682199

>>682199

>You also need to realize that the F-35 is the single-engine budget jet. Not a pure bred fighter plane like the F-15 or F-22.

Most people who shit on the F-35 are idiots or Russian Internet defense force. They like to bring up out-dated test plane reports, or make up a ton of argumentative bullshit, or they complain about the cost. (Which isn’t really relevant since the USA has bazinga levels of money to spend. This is why the states can buildout thousands of F-35’s while Russia struggles to hit 800 fighter aircraft even when they cost a third of the price)

t.muttboomer

This is so deluded this doesnt warrant a response. Especially when the mutt is trying to falsify existing advertisements for the shit35 being the end all plane.

>>682199

>You also need to realize that the F-35 is the single-engine budget jet. Not a pure bred fighter plane like the F-15 or F-22.

>budget jet

>BUDGET

>BUDGET

>>681031

Might get to see the export model this coming airshow in Dubai.

>>682199

According to the МО as of five days ago they've ordered 76 of em.

>>682204

I just like they repeat that the Su was canceled when that isn't the case. I wish I got paid to shill lockheed.

>>682199

>the project was canceled a year ago

Aside from the production contract signed last week.

>F-35 is the single-engine budget jet

>the cost, which isn’t really relevant

So it has the performance of a budget jet but not the price tag of one. Wow, you sure showed the haters there.

>>682206

if you divide the F-35 development cost by US population you'll end up with around same average as Scam yiddizen or some other popular kikestarters

>>682207

>According to the МО as of five days ago they've ordered 76 of em.

Of what, The Sukhoi-57 or the F-35?

Because neither have that number.

The F-35 has 400+ planes operational as of today and thousands more that will be produced in the future.

The SU-57 has 0 production model planes. They have ordered 1 for 2019 that may or may not get built considering the 57 has been in development since 2002. They have like 4 planes they take on air shows but doing loop-de-loops at low altitude isn’t exactly war ready.

>>682208

>Aside from the production contract signed last week. (For SU 57)

The production contract for 1 plane. One.

It’s a meme plane, you fucking retard.

>So it has the performance of a budget jet but not the price tag of one. Wow, you sure showed the haters there.

I said the plane was mediocre you illiterate.

I’m not some Lockheeb hype man.

What I pointed out was:

a) It does actually work unlike the retards ITT would have you believe.

b) It is the cheaper option compared to what the US could build.

c) None of this matters because, like I said, the US has so much money and buildout capacity that even if Russia builds let’s say 10 Memekoi-57s they will be staring down the barrel at 1000+ F-35s

The problem is thus fold: American planes are 3x more expensive than Russkie counterparts. You can thank Lockheeb and boomers for that glutonous inefficiency.

But, the USA’s buying power is 10x that of Russia’s, so even at horrible inefficiency they can still out produce Russia by 3x.

This is why RT squeal like little Jews at the price of the plane, because if they can get the Americans to think that the plane is too expensive than they can possibly get them to cut down that number of planes. So they join up with the libtards, (who also hate America’s MID) flood the media with FUD against the F-35 in hopes that the government will cut back spending.

But it doesn’t happen, the planes continue to get built, and instead I get retards ITT making up shit and probably purposely lying. I don’t even like Lockheed ffs, but y’all act like a bunch of clowns because I pointed out that, with the exception of Japan and the US, everyone else’s Air programs suck major dick.

>>682223

>MID

Meant to say MIC

Military Industrial Complex

>>682223

I trust you anon.

The slavs hype up about ALL of their system, unless push comes to shove then they will come up some excuses for it.

Same for S-300/400/500 magic missiles. Same for Su-57 magic plane.

Even if the US is a degenerated shithole, I don't trust the slavs.

I think only a properly-funded Europe can make good weapons with the best bang for your bucks.

>>682223

>they will be staring down the barrel at 1000+ F-35s

What a terrifying scenario. Truly.

>because if they can get the Americans to think that the plane is too expensive

The plane is too expensive, and shit.

>they can possibly get them to cut down that number of planes

But the US is already doing that for both the F-22 and F-35 because they are so expensive.

>with the exception of Japan and the US, everyone else’s Air programs suck major dick

Don't worry, by the time the US retires their legacy fleet and replaces them with F-35s their air program will be shit too. The only question that remains now is how many other nations will the US manage to take down with them with their Wunderwaffe.

>inb4 you're a Slav conducting psyops

No, I'm just stating plain facts. The F-35 is a moneypit that will keep sucking in more cash because they'll keep finding more and more issues with it. Pretty much nothing they promised about the program has come to fruition.

>>682223

The Su-57 was fielded inSyria.

>>682199

>F-35 is the single-engine budget jet

Yeah, budgets are about the only thing the F-35 can kill with any consistency.

>Not a pure bred fighter plane like the F-15 or F-22.

The F-35 is not a pure-bred anything. Everything it tries to do it does badly, about the only defense people have for it is that it's not as shit as people making fun of claim it to be, and is reliant on the idea that half-assed stealth will stay an advantage for its service life.

>Which isn’t really relevant since the USA has bazinga levels of money to spend

You couldn't sound more Jewish if you tried. The money they waste on this overpriced shitheap has to come from somewhere, and for every overpriced F-35 they buy they have less money to spend on actually effective weapons.

>In the meantime the US will just keep refreshing the F-15 program

Just like they'll keep refreshing the A-10 because the F-35 is shit, but they're too embarrassed to admit it.

>China

>make anything

>when they've yet to create their own jet engine for fighter planes after more than 20 years of trying and terabytes of stolen R&D

China will never get their fighter program off the ground.

>>682242

>The Su-57 was fielded inSyria.

For like 2 seconds. In a support roll with no meaningful combat.

Why do you fuckers keep peddling deceptive info?

>>682241

>The F-35 is a money-pit

In a lot of ways, yes. But there are a lot of things you say I disagree with.

>they'll keep finding more and more issues with it.

All aircraft have problems. The F-22 had oxygen problems, the F-15 had problems, the F-16 had problems.

Did those weapon systems fail? No.

Did they end up costing extra money? Yes, all of them did.

You just didn’t here about the old gens problems because any accidents or extra expenditures with them was kept hush hush.

While nowadays if something goes wrong the public can know within hours.

>Pretty much nothing they promised about the program has come to fruition.

It is VTOL capable, has the stealth tech or whatever, and is significantly cheaper than a F-22.

What else was it supposed to deliver, a massage chair?

Take a look at Boeing’s entry in the Joint Strike fighter Program if you want to under stand the role this plane is supposed to fill.

This was never, never supposed to be an air superiority fighter. This was never supposed to be a heavy ordinance CAS fighter like the A-10.

It was supposed to be the replacement for the F-16 and Harrier jump jet as one plane.

Not a “replace every plane in the military wunderwaffen” but a replacement for 2 planes.

And honestly I think it delivers on that front.

It makes the program an over-engineered mess trying to fit a VTOL and fighter jet onto the same air frame, but it still all works, somehow.

It’s like the Bradley of jets. But like the Bradley, it still works, somehow.

>>682246

>You just didn’t here about the old gens problems because any accidents or extra expenditures with them was kept hush hush.

That's bullshit. People knew about those problems, and it's expected for any new machine to have toothing issues. The problem with the F-35 is that it seems to have an endless number of very expensive, very obvious problems. People love to mention how the F-16 was also proclaimed a DOA clay pigeon and went on to become a success story as proof that the F-35 will also do so. What they fail to mention is that the F-16 program was cheaper by several degrees and that the plane itself wasn't some Frankenstein abomination.

>It is VTOL capable

Which is illustrative of the main problem of the F-35. It tries to be everything at once and fails all at once. Why do people pretend VTOL is such an important feature when the US has full-size carriers that don't require VTOL. Why not just develop a dedicated VTOL fighter?

>has the stealth tech or whatever

It has some mongrelized stealth knock-off that still requires the F-22 to assert air dominance beforehand.

>What else was it supposed to deliver, a massage chair?

It not be a piece-of-shit jack-of-all-trades?

>This was never, never supposed to be an air superiority fighter. This was never supposed to be a heavy ordinance CAS fighter like the A-10.

Bullshit, because Pentagon Wars 2:The Chairforce decided it was going to be all that, and more. It's been officially touted as the replacement for the A-10 (which does require a replacement, just not this turd).

>It’s like the Bradley of jets. But like the Bradley, it still works, somehow.

The Bradley is was, is and will forever be an abortion that only exists because the US hasn't fought a competent opponent in more than 70 years. It's a fucking tragedy you feel that you feel comparing the two somehow puts both in a more positive light.

>>682243

>You couldn't sound more Jewish if you tried. The money they waste on this overpriced shitheap has to come from somewhere, and for every overpriced F-35 they buy they have less money to spend on actually effective weapons.

I’m not trying to sound Jewish, I’m trying to explain the reality of the situation, eurocuck

>they have less money to spend on actually effective weapons.

Except that.

1) they are still refreshing their F-15 and A-10 inventories like you said.

2) what do you have in mind as a “more effective weapon”? The F-35’s role is as a single jet light-strike aircraft. Not a heavy strike craft like the A-10, nor an air superiority fighter like the F-15.

What jets would fill the F-35s role? The Gryphon? The Rafael? They don’t have stealth and don’t have VTOL.

Or are the F-16 and Harrier better than the replacement?

Or you making the argument that a light strike fighter jet is an inherently bad weapon system?

>>682249

>what do you have in mind as a “more effective weapon”?

Each branch getting a dedicated plane that takes into account their particular needs and requirements. You know, the sane approach.

>>682247

>Pentagon Wars 2:The Chairforce decided it was going to be all that, and more.

Well the chair force is full of shit, but it’s pretty clear what the engineers were actually building.

>It's a fucking tragedy you feel that you feel comparing the two somehow puts both in a more positive light.

I wasn’t trying to put the plane in a positive light. It is mediocre and designed by committee like the Bradley. However, it does still work.

>Why do people pretend VTOL is such an important feature when the US has full-size carriers that don't require VTOL.

Britbongs, their aircraft carriers are pathetic.

They wormed their way into this project from day one and are half the reason it is such an engineering nightmare.

Imagine the Bradley situation but with American AND British generals.

>Why not just develop a dedicated VTOL fighter?

It actually would be more expensive. The cost would be spread across two different programs so it wouldn’t look as bad on paper.

>>682253

I should also add, while the split cost would be more expensive. The US also had the option of telling Britain to fuck off and make their own jump jet again, and focus solely on a F-16: 2 Stealth bugaloo. But this project was conceived in the era of globohomo so that was not going to happen.

>>682250

>Each branch getting a dedicated plane that takes into account their particular needs and requirements. You know, the sane approach.

That is kind of what happened though, with the A B and C variants.

However Lockheeb had to much of an ego (and were too cheap) to build separate airframes.

Either that or Stealth complicated things.

Or maybe the committees wanted the planes to all look the same.

I hope they felt it was worth it in the end.

>>682249

>Or are the F-16 and Harrier better than the replacement

They are nearly equal, much cheaper and they don't break down by flying. Also the Harrier can actually take off vertically with some weapons.

>>682246

>Why do you fuckers keep peddling deceptive info?

>said the boomer after kvetching for the six millionth time that the Pak-fa was cancelled

>>682157

come the fuck on zognald dup sending missiles to syria wasnt even that long ago, you should remember it

>>682223

>I said the plane was mediocre you illiterate.

<spend countless billions of us pesos on a mediocre plane

>a) It does actually work unlike the retards ITT would have you believe.

<not tested in combat, we dont know if it actually works, but everything points to it being pretty fucking shit, especially for the price

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>b) It is the cheaper option compared to what the US could build.

>c) None of this matters because, like I said, the US has so much money and buildout capacity that even if Russia builds let’s say 10 Memekoi-57s they will be staring down the barrel at 1000+ F-35s

<pulling out magic paper money out of your ass at the cost of enslaving your entire population with impossible levels of debt,

>>682232

you know, your opinion doesnt mean much. time and time again you have shown yourself as a total retard

>>682266

I am not perfect but the dick sucking of these ruskie systems that are actively no show when the jew planes fly in is disgusting.

>>682243

>>682199

There are 11 Su-57 (9 prototypes, 2 serials) in service with the 968th fighter regiment (which is a school squadron) and 76 on order the Russian military budget 2018-2027.

Also China has 22 J-20 (7 prototypes, 15+ serials) and they're moving to mass production with a goal of 32 planes a year.

Keep reading clickbait articles in English for your sources, this is really entertaining.

Hey did you know that the brits just payed £250M in climate controlled hangars for the planes and fuel trucks for ONE airbase to be capable to host the F-35 without spontaneous combustion?

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/operation-anvil-brings-1-200-jobs-to-norfolk-as-raf-marham-upgrade-takes-off-1-5105047

https://archive.is/yScLU

Funny how those things never make it to the "cost per plane" (which is already north of $130M per plane in every export contract, contrary to Lockheed press releases).

Also I personally always love the "F-35 is more advanced", just an example the tail fins.

F-35? As tall (if not taller) as a F-18, aluminium made, with only the rear part moving like a good old WWII design.

Su-57? Polymer, short, fully movable. Which is the way to go for high speed maneuvers and that the USAF knows since the last Rockwell prototypes of the late 70's.

You see Russia is undoubtedly 20 years behind the US when it comes to plane designs…

Problem is the USAF never actually go for US cutting edge designs, they go for maximazing profits of private companies (which is typically selling old junk under a new coat of very expensive shiny paint) that will grant them a cushy retirement plan and instead of trying to get I dunno, merge the X-36 and X-44 designs to get an actual revolutionary fighter design that would be 20 years in advance over anything anyone else has you get the F-35, a plane with a marketing gimmick that is undoubtedly, even if does all the things it advertises, gonna bankrupt NATO airforces.

>>680986

>There are so many other ways to put pressure on Turks without looking like a massive asshole even to normalfaggots.

Hmmm good point, anon.

>>681155

> I could care less at least has meaning.

No it doesn't. That means you care about the point you're not trying to care about. People say it to say they don't care. It's retarded to say you care about something you are trying to say you don't care about.

>>682271

>You see Russia is undoubtedly 20 years behind the US when it comes to plane designs…

So what? Even the boomer burger admits they're upgrading their legacy fleets afloat despite the F-35 coming online. Clearly they also know they've been handed a turd and are making sure they have backups that actually work.

What a fucking circus.

>even if does all the things it advertises, gonna bankrupt NATO airforces

Isn't the EU some kind of dystopian administrative nightmare where the armies can't even service their own planes have to pay exorbitant prices to the manufacturers to do it for them?

Hell, they're so busy paying Ahmed and Jamal to murder their own citizes and rape white women they didn't even have enough ordnance to bomb Libya properly.

>>682277

Tell me one time an S300 down an aircraft?

>>682285

>Su-57 is far better engineered than F-35, in fact in many factors it is better than F-22.

At least the pilot dies from enemy fire, not as part of a design feature.

>>682286

I am not talking about THAAD, I am talking about slav magic missiles.

So nothing to show once again?

>>682285

>>682287

So is there any proof of this Su 57 magic plane?

The US has more F-22 and F-35 than Russia having Su-57.

>>682275

The classic example is Belgium.

Belgium had during the cold war 160 F-16 and had no problems fielding 72 of them at any moment.

On their current airforce budget it's dubious they will be able to maintain a 2 F-35 QRA (they're already struggling to do so with F-16 and while sharing their QRA role with the Netherlands airforce… which is in the exact same situation).

So that's the insanity of the F-35 and why lesser NATO countries should have bought F-16V/Grippens.

And it also put in perspective the fact that the Russian air-force, since the end of the cold war have been halved (Russia has around 50 air regiments, made of 1 or 2, more rarely 3 wings, of 12 + spares/trainers for a total of somewhere between 600 to 800, largely depending whether you count Su-34 in tactical bombers or in fighter bombers, and whether you count the navy fighters wings. USSR airfleet used to be in the 1200s around 2000 if you included reserves of older planes still field-able).

But the Belgium situation a cut of 160 in inventory to 34 is very typical of NATO airfleets in Europe.

So on one hand you have a 50% cut for Russia… but an 80% cut for western Europe.

And Russia isn't the one that is overwhelmingly relying on air power as it's main military doctrine. Threadly reminder that the Russian airforce has way more AA ground vehicles than it has planes.

>>682294

>34 is very typical of NATO airfleets in Europe

That's fucking pathetic. I wish Trump would lower America's contributions to NATO to make these shameful traitors squeal and sweat a little when Putin throws his massive dong around.

>And Russia isn't the one that is overwhelmingly relying on air power as it's main military doctrine

I wonder if any of the EU countries could even put up an effective fight, or if their armies would collapse at the first sign of stiff resistance, parallel to Antifa and niggers rising up to stab them in the back.

I remember that one article with soyboys crying bitch tears and saying they wouldn't fight for their country if it were invaded.

>>682295

>I wish Trump would lower America's contributions to NATO to make these shameful traitors squeal

But western european armies are all just US proxies. If US punished them, it'd be punishing its own forces.

>I wonder if any of the EU countries could even put up an effective fight

The west would roll over and die, the east would descend in gorilla warfare, as many here would much rather be on Russia's side than with US.

>>682295

>jewpig wants war between white nations

ok shlomo

>>682293

I didn't bring up THAAD, that's the american.

I ask you a simple question of whenever S-300 has ever downed an aircraft, turns out it's none!

>>682272

>lol why wont syria just declare war on USA?

So defending themselves against Israel is declaring war on USA now?

Why doesn't Assad just surrender then?

>>682298

>as many here would much rather be on Russia's side than with US.

It's so sad but it seems europeans can only choose between the kosher sandwitch (US or Russia) but never themselves.

What happened to european?

>>682307

>just fucking google ukraine plane shot down you nigger

That's a civilian airliner, isn't that a fucking war crime?

>see? now you get it.

So why doesn't Assad just surrender then?

He fears BOTH Israel and the USA and let his people be bombed while he hides.

>>682308

Also, there's no proof that plane was shot down by S-300.

The ruskies say it's shot down by ukrainian's Buk.

This is case of clown world where the ukrainians accuse ruskies and ruskies accuse ukrainians.

>>682374

F-16 has invaded Syrian airspace, multiple times.

Where were those S-300?

>>682416

A S-200. And it was an ELINT plane. And technically it didn't miss, since the jews purposefully hid behind it (they have been doing it regularly with passenger planes from the Jordanian and Lebanese airspace too… which is why international companies avoid also those airspaces).

>>681646

You only say that because you know poland would be next on the list.

>>682423

>And technically it didn't miss

LOL, this faggot fucking french.

So if you shoot your own daughter whose the criminal is hiding behind, does it mean you didn't technically miss as well?

>>682437

If both the criminal and your daughter are flying close to each other, and you fire a self-guided projectile that doesn't have a friend-or-foe system so it locks on your daughter and hits her, then yes, it didn't miss. But I'm yet to read this 2hu doujin.

>>682442

So the analogy stands, if your daughter stood next to a criminal, and you shot her instead of the criminal, you technically didn't miss.

I'm loving the excuse the slavcucks bring up.

>>682304

>Why doesn't Assad just surrender then?

because war isnt declared because even usa needs a casus beli of sorts, and they dont have it because israeli plan isnt shot down?

then again you are too retired to understand that

>>682379

in ur moms penis

>>682437

well, the missile hit something, right? then it wasnt a miss since it did not miss

>>682444

>because war isnt declared because even usa needs a casus beli of sorts, and they dont have it because israeli plan isnt shot down?

Why is Israeli plan shot down?

Oh right, because it's attacking Syria. Syria is defending itself against aggression.

If you think such casus belli work, there's no need for any false flags.

The jews can just literally invade Syria and then cry for US to help.

>well, the missile hit something, right? then it wasnt a miss since it did not miss

Congrats, it hits its own side.

That's something I guess.

>>682437

It's the reverse bodyguard.

If you shoot at someone with a rifle from a long a distance (with a bit of traveling time) and his bodyguard dives in front of the path of the already in the air bullet.

Did you miss?

No.

Did your rifle doesn't work?

No.

You didn't get the results you were hoping for, but it's entirely due to third party interference outside of your control (AKA "shit happens", or in the military vocable "tactics"), not from a fault on your part (except one of planning) let alone your gear.

Good tactics always trump good gear, that's something always forgotten in armchair generaling and weapon systems fetishizing.

>>682448

>Good tactics always trump good gear

True, but it's easier to read and sperg out over Military-Industrial press releases than it is to gain a decent understanding of military theory that has been in development for the last few thousand years.

>>682437

Why is this subhuman monkey still allowed to post?

the idea is that Russian techies would be allowed to play wargames with real F-35, and figure out how to make S-400, or future S-500, beat F-35.

Why wouldn't it be the other way around, given Turkey is NATO member?

And, as NATO ally, why not USA offering advanced US AA missiles to Turkey (and like Israel have US civy "contractors" handling all the hard stuff for their Turd World clients)?

>>682468

My understanding is that the US doesn't have advanced land-based AA missiles because it doesn't share a land border with any credible enemies.

>>682468

When it gets really insane is that a number of countries that are in NATO that do field S-300 (that they got Russia to modernized recently) and can/will upgrade to S-400 if they want (Slovakia, Bulgaria and Greece… Greece even has Tor too).

The actual problem is "Turkey isn't doing what Washington tell them", which should tell you what NATO really is meant to be (loyal auxiliaries of the Judeo-American Empire)

>Why wouldn't it be the other way around, given Turkey is NATO member?

The fact that Russia (that is notoriously paranoid) has no export restrictions should be a sign that at least they feel it won't happen or that there won't be any easy solution. Maybe they're wrong, but at the very least it shows confidence in their gear.

What does that tells you about the F-35?

>>682448

Except this is not his bodyguard, it's your daughter.

Congrats, you just shoot your daughter. Thankfully you didn't miss.

There's nothing be proud about fucking friendly fire.

>>682477

>What does that tells you about the F-35?

F-35 is already used worldwide with actual running time.

You can shit on them and they will always be there.

But your S-300 and S-400 magic missiles conveniently do not work when they are needed,

>>682477

>What does that tells you about the F-35?

has stealth anything ever been put to real world test, or even tested on a secure Area 51 type range by well equipped security-cleared skeptics?

I keep hearing about how its radar sig is very small but if its still there its still there.

Like Jay Leno said back in Reagan admin "It makes a huge bomber look like a little bird on radar, yeah, a little bird flying over the North Pole at 400mph at 4am."

Unless you also got decoys that can maintain a flight path that the jet could take (while jet banks away) I don't see the point of stealth. (I'm pretty sure any AA missile could easily be programed to ignore decoy flares that quickly drop from 600mph to near 0 and free fall).

>>682578

>has stealth anything ever been put to real world test

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zolt%C3%A1n_Dani

Cue shitposting.

>>682578

For a fighter, stealth means the enemy sees you from 50km instead of 100km. It's expensive and fucks with the plane's speed and maneuverability, but we still do it because it's the only way US fighters have a prayer in hell of surviving contact with their Russian ccounterparts.

Bombers are a totally different matter, they can be extremely stealthy with very little performance impact so it's just a matter of costs (and strategic bombers are valuable enough that it's almost always worth the money, unless you plan to use them exclusively to bomb undefended sandniggers).

>>682626

It's expensive, fucks with the plane and specifically is entirely ineffective against the Russian radar system, which has been (unlike ours) designed with doctrine and purpose in mind, and is easily capable of low-band target acquisition.

>>682626

>>682682

Sometimes I wonder why the US seems so hellbent on destroying its own military in the name of Judeo-capitalism, especially with their greatest ally still relying on them for protection and foreign policies.

It's not like they couldn't have blown a trillion shekels via the F-23 and ASF-14 programs in exchange for getting planes that a sane person would consider flightworthy at the very least, but instead they invested an entire spaceprogram's worth of shekels on a fat piggu suicide booth.

>>682792

The plan is to move the whole operation to China once America has been sucked dry.

>>682792

>Entire space program

It only costs about 100 million to send a rocket into space, anon. That's based on NASA numbers, private companies do it even cheaper.

>>682841

But for the price of 1 F-35 program NASA could've build at least two O'Neill cylinders and filled them with gay niggers because globohomo.

>>682797

>2050

>Jews come to china

>Start doing (((the usual)))

>Can't own media

>Can't climb in government

>Chinese dislike the merchant tricks and just exterminate them by flattening jews into the pavement with tanks

Can't wait.

>>682880

You do know who put Mao into power right?

>>682792

I sort of suspect that there's some sort of ridiculous day-one planned obsolescence scheme going on here, I wouldn't be surprised at all if we end up replacing them within a decade. Convair pulled a trick like that back in the 50s, they were marketing the F-106 as a replacement for our obsolete F-102s before the F-102 actually entered service.

>>682626

>stealth means the enemy sees you from 50km instead of 100km

Maybe I'm just a retard, but wouldn't it be far cheaper and more effective to focus on active jamming rather than passive reduction of RCS if that's the goal?

Granted, arguing that [insert ridiculous thing] is cheaper than the F35 has become a bit of a meme, but wouldn't a slightly larger airframe (maybe not Vulcan tier, but an F-111 perhaps) hold enough electronics to render your opponents radar largely worthless as well as the missiles it needs to do its job as a fighter?

>>682911

That's definitely possible.

But it's gonna be a shitstorm because, unlike then, a fair chunk of the F-35 R&D bill was paid by US allies.

>>682997

>vacuum inversion wave

What is it?

>>683018

Zero-point energy happens and the universe essentially pops like a bubble. It's fairly unlikely but if it does happen there isn't much anyone can do about it.

>>682997

>Building a 200km long maglev track 80km from the ground is cheap and easy.

Yeah how about, no.

>>683025

Hey, at least NASA might start taking SSTO research seriously.

Any further cylinders would be constructed in situ by guys from the already existing cylinder anyway so it should balance itself out even if building the first cylinder takes 6 million Space Shuttle launches.

>>682997

>a few billion

A completely unrealistic goal what with all the subcontractors, scientific institutions and unforeseen circumstances involved because no one's tried building a proper isolated biosphere in outer space before.

Maybe the baseline cost for building the initial skeleton structure of an O'Neill cylinder could be made cheap enough at some point, but to get it running you'll have to move people and equipment there considerably adding to the price even if the initial population is small.

It's also unknown how long it'll take for each cylinder to be self-sufficient in terms of food and for the economy to grow enough for the colonists to no longer be reliant on external taxpayer money infusions.

What would life on a /k/-administered O'Neill colony be like?

>>682217

You do know only white makes pay a net positive in taxes here so that changes to costs averages to an already targeted demographic.

>>682880

Who the fuck do you think the economic advisors were in the past? They act the same.

>>681637

Instead of an animegirl, why couldn't it have shown itself as the man it once was?; donning his flightsuit.

>>682379

Israeli F-16s stopped invading Syrian airspace when an S-200 shot one down in 2018. Now both their F-15s and 16s just skirt around over Lebanon and Jordan and exclusively use standoff munitions and glide bombs, or they send in F-35s or spoof US transponder codes if they NEED to fly over Syrian clay (which they don't, really, since nothing Syrian or Lebanese actually posits a strategic threat).

The Syrians COULD shoot at Israelis over Lebanon and Jordan with the S-300s, but they don't because it'll just be the same story as the Pantsirs - Israeli SEAD will overwhelm them via saturation and ECM, and a million vatniks will then kill themselves. Syria will be ready to use their S-300s against NATO and Israel's planes when they not only have enough of them, and enough Buks and Pantsirs and retrofits (new radars, UAVS, etc.) for all their other shitty missiles to complement the 300s in a layered, integration fashion, along. This probably won't happen until the current war is over, they just can't afford to.

>>682963

Active anythings are basically extremely bright beacons that are very easy to home onto from as far not obscured by the horizon. Stealth among other things is 100% radiosilence and passive everything.

>>682626

It would be a shame if they had missiles that can travel 50 kilometers ahead without a target and engage once they actually find anything.

>>682841

Sending shit into low earth orbit is about $5 000 per pound. Assuming average amerifat is 200 pounds, that's a million bucks per person. For a trillion bucks you can only send skywards one million people, excluding the habitat.

>>683018

A conjectured phenomenon where vacuum would transition to a lower energy state, where such transition would trigger the same transition of the adjacent space. Not known to have ever happened in the entire history of the universe, nor known if it's even physically possible. Either way it's nothing to be worried about, either it will never happen, or it obliterate everything without warning.

The first shipment of S400s has arrived in Turkey.

>>683840

How much warning will they need to take down the entire Greek airforce now?

>>683886

Surely even the roaches will succeed in shooting down at least one hostile aircraft, if only by chance. I mean, they may be shit, but shit isn't unlucky.

>>682578

Daily reminder Serbs shot down a F-117 which is stealthier than F-35, with a missile from the 1960s mounted on a truck in the 90s.

The F-35 can therefore be knocked down with a 1960s missile mounted on a truck in the 20s.

Moreover, F-35 from the front has a lower stealth than F-117, and from the back the F-35 has a stealth value equivalent to F-18ASH.

So it's basically like a 4.5++ not a 5th gen.

Modern radars? They've had 60 years of improvement, and over 20 years of knowing that stealth exists and focusing on countering it. First response is stronger radars, which managed to detect stealth aircraft without a problem but only for large countries. Second response was different frequencies, let even smaller countries detect stealth aircraft easily. Third response was high bandwidth integration of radars, so high power multifrequency radars could share their data and detect and target stealth aircraft more easily. Fourth step in detection was adding EWAR ships to blind and even to detect emissions from stealth aircraft, after all any aircraft that can't sense its environment or communicate is essentially useless. Sixth step is quantum infrared detectors that render all stealth useless as long as the laws of thermodynamics hold. Seventh step is passive radar, which maps the aircraft against microwave background radiation, which will render stealth useless so long as the remnants of the big bang are around.

So you see… we went like a dozen steps forward in stealth detection, and F-35 is a step back in stealth.

>>683857

The Hellenic Air Force is immune to slavaboo SAMemes.

>>684701

And the magic S-300 cannot shoot down an F-16, if it's piloted by a jew.

>>684984

with ND I don't think we even stand a chance anymore. Things were already about to collapse with syriza, now with ND which is syriza 2.0 the collapse will continue until our military becomes utterly worthless.

>>684990

It always gets worse until it gets better.

>>684987

This will launch on Tel Aviv long before S-400 is used on an Israeli F-16, but I don't expect a smol heda vietnamese monkey to understand political concerns.

>>684984

If you have no aircraft then it is impossible for your opponent to destroy your aircraft.

>>684984

The hellenic air force uses a battalion (~100 missiles) of S-300 on Crete and is the reason why Turkey didn't just take all those islands, the complex protects about 1/2 of them closest to Turkey.

>>685151

The issue is that a well trained, experienced and intelligent pilot with a 4th gen fighter can always fool a SAM, as demonstrated by Greek F-16 pilots in excersizes against joint Israeli-American air-defenses. Sandnigger pilots are none of those things and their turdroach subspecies only had experience before King Roach put them all in jail for the coup. Also White-ish people with two-digit IQ can properly and creatively use groundborne air-defenses as demonstrated by Serbia. The best of sandniggers in Baghdad could not even aim their AA guns where the radar was putting the crosspiece and instead tried to shoot enemy aircraft by centering them in their sights.

>>685050

>no aircraft

We actually have more than even the UK until the F-35 enters service.

>>683027

nuclear pulse propulsion

a single npp earth to orbit tug could blast 100,000 tonnes of material into HIGH otbitals beyond geosynchronous. thats enough for the framework and factories needed to build hundreds of oneil cylinders, if even a single nickel iron asteroid could be finagled into space.

a few of those launches and you could put all of america into space easily.