/k/ - Weapons

I feel like the p3at should be considered for if you just REALLY need something tiny

should i buy an sks with tapco furniature and 20 round tapco mag for 300 usd + tax?

Oh, forgot to mention: Any suggestions for a program to make it in? The current version used Inkscape, but that was a mess of hand-aligning stuff.

>>678995

Use QTDDTOT for that

>>679002

nigger, fuck off just answer my god damn question. reddit niggers i swear….

>>679007

>lower-case

>thinks about owning a Tapco

>mad when someone tells him to use another thread

>calls some a Redditor for it

Owned.

lolol

I cant help with US prices but Canadian long gun proces have dropped like a rock since the long gun registry (as long as the gun didnt show up in a movie) but recently they are picking up.

One thing thats good is the size of the gray market on guns. Friends selling to friends, or rather gifting and then getting a gift in return. Thats larger than its been since 1957 if my dad is to be believed.

Handguns are just no use, since you cant oc or cc legally.

>>679011

If you beat shit you just end up smelling like it. Just ignore things like this.

>>679011

So SCCY can be kept I guess.

S&W Airweights have generally been around $330 lately.

>>679040

https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?Keywords=beretta%201201fp

The Beretta 1201fp is an excellent autoloader that can be found for usually under $600, but be warned that it is discontinued. You may have a hard time finding parts.

And since I know jack shit about anything besides the guns I listed, I refer you now to Lord Harrell.

Lord Harrell:

>Wears vintage shooting jacket

>Never shills

>Huge pecs

>Has killed people IRL

Far superior to hicuck45 tbh

Should we put optics on the list? they make such a huge difference

Also it still says "gun jesus approved" under the cleaning kit

>>678989

The Interstate Arms Hawk doesn't appear to be very common online. The few places I can find are all sold out. Shame, since the reviews were all amazing. The Mossberg 590 can possibly be replaced with the 590M and the Shockwave can be added. I was thinking of adding the Kel Tec RDB since I saw one for really cheap at a gun show the other day, but they appear pretty expensive on Gunbroker, so I guess that's out of the picture now. (Mad I missed a deal now.) IIRC, Kel-Tec Sub 2000s are usually around $500, if we wanna add them (idk if they're any good). Majority of Sig P365s are ~$500 on Gunbroker and they're good guns.

Tokerevs are still pretty cheap (~$200 per gun). Ammo is pretty decently priced too.

Opinion on adding Walther PPS M2 to the list?

https://palmettostatearmory.com/walther-pps-m2-9mm-pistol-black-2805961.html

$269.99

Single stack 9mm, magazine capacity from 6 to 8, fits the same role as the S&W Shield but at a lower price point.

Pros: decent trigger and ergonomics.

Cons: low aftermarket support.

>>679087

My sub2k seems to function fine, but I don't shoot it nearly as much as I want to. Got a few feeding malfunctions the first time I shot it but those only happened with an aftermarket 30 round mag of dubious quality. I got mine very, very lightly used for $400 (PO supposedly shot it once, didn't like it, and sold it back to the LGS a week after buying it).

The biggest problem is finding one in 9mm. 40sw models are dime a dozen it seems, but it took me almost 3 years to find the 9mm one I now have.

For shotguns, I'd think the Midland Backpacker would be a strong candidate for the list. You can get them for about 130-150 in 410, 20, and 12 gauge. They should be running options now for different barrel configurations for rimfire setups as well now, but their site is down when I last looked. I own a 410 backpacker, and it works pretty well.

My turkroach ATA NEO was $300 which is pretty good for an autoloader 12 guage. I havent shot it nearly enough to give a good review yet but id like to say:

The charging handle needs to be pulled back further than it “feels” is far enough, dont know how to describe it but it hits 2 walls when pulling back. I was getting a lot of short stroke issues until i found what was causing it. Once i figured that out it runs great. I can see that being a huge issue in a tense situation though but it only took me one range day to figure out the problem

Police trade in glock 22s are everywhere, often for $300 or so. The only problem is

>.40

>>679109

That is a problem. .40 works but expensive compared to 9. Could use an aftermarket barrel but that increases cost.

>>679109

The gun at my CCP class was a 40 cal Glock converted to 9mm. Instructor mentioned it malfed all the time and it would only ever be used on the range as a result.

>>679095

Guess it could.

>>679087

You're right. Gun.deals can only find a single in-stock listing, and it looks like they're putting it on sale to clear the listing. Wonder what happened. On the plus side the Stevens 320 looks to have gone down in price about 20 bucks.

>>679109

>>679158

I'd say not now but maybe much later depending how much the cost swings, they might become so cheap that the aftermarket barrel could be worth it.

Are chicom chest rigs still viable/sensible as poorfag kit? The SKS versions with pouches for stripper clips are still pretty cheap, but prices have been climbing for the AK version. Right now you would only be looking at spending 10-20 dollars more for something new, even if airshit. There are a number of simple PALS chest rigs that are going for less than a chicom at the moment, though the quality is up in the air.

Surplus US ALICE and Bundeswehr LBE isn't too expensive, so those are options too.

>>679270

What are the prices on them? You can still get surplus LBV-E and Italian clones for less than 30 bucks, and those hold AR mags while being able to mount an ALICE belt for all the random kit you want (canteen, more ammo, ect).

>>679187

Agreed. The 9mm barrel in a .40 works but for low values of "works". Could probably improve with replacing the recoil spring and extractor but at that point it's a project gun rather than a carry gun.

As an aside, we need to do one of these types of image guides for getting into reloading. Shameful doublepost.

>>679028

9/11/01 was done and over with. Food is for the living.

Plus, a lot of those people should not have been working for multinational corporation in such a building in the first place.

>>679270

Chink 81 rigs are still around 20. Swedish 304 pattern stuff is anywhere from 10-15, comes with two pouches (five mags a pouch), the suspenders and a canteen pouch. Also its alice compatable.

Hickock45 should be deleted

>>679435

Been thinking about it, though most companies, Lee, Hornady, RCBS have a starters kit with pretty much the basics down and yes that includes many warnings on how to not be a dumbfuck like playing with primers, or smoking around the reload table.

>>679526

Already planned to.

>>679430

The list was more for concealed carry pistols than anything larger, even Glock 19 size. The new Compact model might qualify though.Mr. Gunngear had a fairly serious issue with his original, though other reviewers seem to be fine with it. Any thoughts?

>>679585

I was thinking of something that showed the absolute bare necessities to reload, those starter kits have way more than are actually required, as well as a lot of junk that gets quickly abandoned or replaced in my experience. I'd like to distill down a minimalist kit, and perhaps also a gucci set up as well.

>>679631

>The list was more for concealed carry pistols than anything larger, even Glock 19 size.

To be fair, the list already has a Hi Point 916 on it, which is fatter and heavier than a Security 9. I think those mid glock 19 size pistols are extremely flexible for a first/possibly only gun. They can be carried, not the best for it, but then they're also good for HD as well.

>>679636

Then a classic lee loader or whatever they call em these days, all that is needed with that is a rubber mallet. That is the literal bare minimum for reloading.

>>678989

Recommend making suppressors out of solvent traps.

https://twintechtactical.com/solvent-filtering-components/wix-24003-24744-napa-4003-4744/

And suppressors that poors can afford.

https://rebelsilencers.com/sos-hunter

>>679690

Also this one for $200.

https://www.blackacestactical.com/product-page/pro-series-56-po-boy-suppressor

>>679665

The problem with the lee loader kit is that it is entirely caliber specific. It makes sense if you only ever load one cartridge in small quantities, or if you need something very portable. For people who want to load several different calibers or load quicker, a press of some sort is more economical.

>>679808

>recommending suppressors for poors

>FED!

>>679752

Thing is, if we're talking hi-point tier poor a lee loader is the way to go. When you're someone like me with ~20 calibers to load then yeah a press with a scale and a powder feed is the way to go.

>>680090

not really, they tend to be more expensive for both the firearm and the ammunition you use and this list implies the buyer is a relatively new shooter and is defending himself against nogs and wiggers. 5.56 is better for beginners than .308 anyway.

When the taxman comes a'calling with class 4 body armor head to toe than maybe we can create a different thread about that. but for now this is what we're doing.

The goal of this list is:

"You need to defend yourself against the scary darkies nubile anon?"

"well here's this picture so that I don't have to write an entire paragraph for you"

the real question is should cheap optics be listed? Because I am not that familiar with cheap optics.

>>680097

>5.56 is better for beginners than .308 anyway

I never understood this meme. 5.56 is better for new shooters when these shooters are women or <13 year olds.

The average male adult should have no issues with handling a .308

If I knew the american market and prices I would most certainly add an affordable .308 in the list

>>680097

Type 4 is proof against .308. Hell type 3 is also proof against .308. You're going to have to invest in a .338 lupua, .300winmag or .50bmg to defeat type 4 in one shot. Your best bet is to just compromise the plate with several well grouped hits or hit them with a shot slug which while it won't penetrate even type 3A, the impact alone will incapacitate anyone no matter what they're wearing.

>>680099

>more than double the ammo for half the weight

<but you can't engage targets at 1000 yards like what happened all the time in all those conflicts that primarily used battle rifles!

This is what battlerifle fags actually believe

>>680099

Basics of shooting gyro. Its far easier to get someone to get them down with a cartridge that isn't gonna whump them around. Unless they're built like Otto Skorzeny I'd stick to letting them play with smaller stuff first.

t.guy built like Otto Skorzeny

>>680102

Type III plates are easy to pop with .308 if you know how to lathe out brass. Mind you bullets fragmenting upon the plate is another issue in it self.

>>680106

This isnt a shtf thread

>>680102

>excuse me Mr. Zogsoldier, can you hold still while I compromise the plate with several well grouped hits

>>680116

Leg meta is real

>>680185

>eating fast food slop marketed as food

>not making your own homemade burgers

Do you even /ck/, bro?

>>680106

>Tyrone kicks in your door

>fire .308 at him which goes through him, four interior walls, your refrigerator, your neighbors house and his neighbors house and comes to a stop in your local school while also rendering you deaf

>or you hit officer mczogface in his chest carrier which stops the round

Brilliant. Where were infantry wars fought at ranges greater than 500 yards?

>>680116

>excuse me Mr. Zogsoldier, can you hold still while I get out my $6000 bolt action bench rest gun so I can shoot through your armor in one shot?

>>680311

>dude muh overpenetration lmao

Only a problem for weak wooden american houses. Here everything is concrete. You're also a faggot if you live in a city and have neighbors across the street.

>wars fought at ranges greater than 500 yards

You seem to have already forgotten the 2 wars where your 5.56 turned out to be absolute trash and made even your cucked military consider going back to superior 7,62 or go with 6.5mm.

You also seem to think 5.56 is lethal at 500 yards - it really isn't. I wish I still had the screencap of troops talking about needing to shoot sandniggers multiple times to take them out

>>680312

is it even legal to own a semi-auto .308 rifle in Greece? inb4 black market

Just shoot him in the face or legs retards, fucks sake.

>>680311

>In which wars did infantry fight at ranges greater than 500 yards?

Every one since vietnam.

>>680432

>>680311

>>680312

Face the facts, get past the theoretical dope table and what do we have? 5.56 ball has problems with stability and accuracy in many types of conditions at various ranges, it doesn't matter what the dope table's bullet drop number says, the damn things coming in tumbling. Even if you can get 62 grain ball to be somewhat accurate enough to hit things at 550 meters today, wait for the wind to change and it won't another day. 7.62 ball may not be super duper accurate out of a standard battle rifle at 1,000 yards or meters, but the bullet is coming in stable, the same thing cannot be said of 5.56 ball out of a light machinegun. To put it simply, a man with a battle rifle and service M80 ball has the difficulty of inherent accuracy issues of a standard combat rifle, figuring out his dope in the field during combat; but his dope table is valid. Reach out long enough in battle and a good dope won't fix the fact your 5.56 is all fucked up and losing accuracy at ranges of 500+ in many instances.

M80 standard ball is a poorer choice for 1,000 meters, but its valid. Standard 5.56 ball of either weight is not. "But muh 20 inch barrel 75 grain match bullets" doesn't change the facts of many shorter barrels with much lighter bullets. Even then the 7.62 is superior. Let's also remember that 7.62 has better barrier breaking abilities at longer ranges, it still has some heat when it smashes into things at longer ranges where the 5.56 does not.

>>680311

I use 308 for home defense. Soft points don't keep penetrating forever, they run out of steam not too long after hitting a living being, the bullet expands violently and loses shape and force. And Tyrone will be so dead you won't have to worry about him anymore.

>>678989

Remove inrange Karl and Ian false prophet shit.

>>680185

>Capable of keeping someone alive beyond the time it would take to die without consuming anything.

>Not food.

I hope shit hits the fan and your final meal is your leather shoes because you turned down a pizza MRE.

>>680317

>semi-auto .308 rifle

No, but if you're willing to go through the bullshit paperwork and shooting clubs, you can get yourself a bolt-action

>>680312

M885 is designed to penetrate a residential brick wall with enough velocity intact to penetrate a flack vest. Unless you live in a fucking bunker a .308 will cause quite a bit of collateral damage indoors. Even if you live in the middle of bumfuck nowhere you still run the risk of overpenetrations hitting family and pets.

I don't seem to remember any problems with 5.56's range in both Iraq wars. Would you have wanted to go into Fallujah with half the ammo but the ability to engage targets at 1000 yards? And what about the based Russians who never make a single mistake in hardware procurement? Why are they using 5.45x39 and 7.62x39 while 7.62x54r is reserved for designated marksmen and machine gun teams? The wounding potential of the round or lack thereof only came from using projectiles built for 20 inch barrels being shot through 14.5 inch barrels hence the M193 rounds being regarded as lethal "poisoned bullets" by the VC and anyone else on the receiving end of them out of the correct barrel. Plus there are plenty of anecdotes in WW1, WW2, the Korean war, Vietnam, ect where people were struck by multiple battle rifle rounds and didn't go down. Its the same brand of fudds and climber generals who want to solve some massive problem that doesn't exist to get promoted and make a lot of money by having stocks in whatever company owns the proposed 5.56 replacement.

>>680487

>I don't seem to remember any problems with 5.56's range in both Iraq wars.

Opinions discarded

>>680487

Army fags had a fucking problem with that 14.5" barrel. Jarheads with their muskets not so much.

>.308 will cause quite a bit of collateral damage indoors

Yeah if you're using FMJ's, most hunting SP's tend to vaporize.

Sage for OT.

>>679040

>>679043

The 1.0 shield can often be found on PSA for $250. I bought mine in January and I think it's still on sale for that price.

The amount of "much 308" and "muh stopping power" fags in here is telling. Rather have more ammo not less. And since you aren't forced to use M193 or M855 just run Brown/Silver/Golden Bear SPs or HPs. They do nasty stuff to gel blocks out of an SBR, what do you think they'll do you?

>>680497

Not an argument. I'll ask this part again: If the Russians literally walk on water and have never once in their entire history since 1945 made a single procurement mistake, why do they intermediate cartridges on all of their line rifle men and only use full power cartridges with designated marksmen and machine guns like the Americans?

>>680498

Well done, you didn't read the post ether and think that ice picking is an inherent problem that comes from the cartridge and not because they used a projectile not designed for such a short barrel to save money in the same fashion that made people think the M16 is inherently unreliable.

>>680872

> If the Russians literally walk on water and have never once in their entire history since 1945 made a single procurement mistake

Russians have made many mistakes, using their shitty 5,45 is one of them.

The ideal military would use an AK-107 clone chambered in 6.5 creedmoor.

>>680099

My very first rifle was a .308 and I was just fine; but other people in my home found it extremely unpleasant. I think it varies person to person.

Unfortunately it was a PTR, so definitely not worthy of the budget list. But I HIGHLY recommend this rifle otherwise.

>>678989

Since the ARs lister are in the $450 range, perhaps it would be feasible to add the PSAK, since its roughly $500.Is there anyone here that has experience with that rifle? Sage for double post.

>>680920

>7.62x39

>home defense

That goes through barriers too well.

>>680936

fucking burgers and their paper walls. my house outer wall is, like, 80cm thick. this house survived 2 world wars and probably austro prussian war too

>>680936

That's a fair point.

>>680939

Houses are made as cheaply as possible here to save on construction costs. Trust me, I'd love to live in brick, but even basic houses like that can run into the millions because of this bullshit housing bubble that just won't fucking pop.

Worth taking the Makarov off the list?

I've got one and it's a great gun but hardly budget these days. Ammo isn't cheap either.

>>680944

>into the millions

Jesus Christ. The average house here, with basement, garden etc. costs roughly $250,000 - 300,000 here.

>>680945

Likely.

>>680947

What the other anon didn't mention is that it depends on the area, new York, California and Arizona tend to be more expensive, but states like Kentucky, Georgia, and Iowa are cheaper

>>680947

Who tf wants to live in Greece, though?

Get some freedom, sheepfucker.

>>680945

Better to replace it with a TT33 clone. 7.62x25 is roughly double the price per shot of 9mm, but the guns themselves might as well be harder hitting Hi-point c9's in almost every way, save for being decades older. Roughly $200, handle like a brick, can be used as a brick if you run out of ammo, etc.

>>680944

>>680947

>>681125

There's places in the US where you can buy a decent sized home for $20k-$30k, albeit in a shit neighborhood. Amazingly, a lot of them aren't in or close to big cities.

>>681349

Tokarov clones common in your area? Don't see them much around me.

>>680947

>>680944

>>681125

>>681349

Parts of Houston in not-entirely-shit neighborhoods are ~$80k for ~1.5-2k sq. ft.

>>680944

>Houses are made as cheaply as possible here to save on construction costs.

Some home builders have started making studs every 14 inches, not 16. I was looking into building a new home and they suggested I do that to bring down the cost. Fuck that, if I'm building a home, it'll be done right.

sage for off-topic

>>681379

I think you mean 24". That's usually reserved for weaker interior walls. (fuck that though)

If any carpenter sells you on studs further than 16" than they're trying to fuck you to save themselves building costs. unless you're trying to frame in doors or windows in non uniform spaces.

Back on topic, if we wanted to include bolt action .308 something like this would be useful:

https://grabagun.com/ruger-american-rif-308win-bl-sy-22.html

Still need an optic and no irons included, though.

>>681349

Don't drop your Tokarev though unless you want a new peephole in a random part of wall. Century's homemade safeties are garbage, and the firing pin free floats with nothing stopping it from hitting the primer. I guess a Romaniab Tokarev clone is ok if you can find one, since Cugir integrated a proper safety.

Problem (or benefit depending on what you want) with 7.62x25 is that it's a poor man's 5.7. I've seen it go through refridgerators on a drop fire.

They have a pardner 12 guage pump at most walmarts for 140. Case dismissed.

>>682389

>Hatsan Escort

Seems like a good thing to list, especially now that the Interstate Arms Hawk has vanished, but I can't find anything about it other than it's Turkish.

>>682389

I don't see single shot being a problem if you use a slug or something, put a fucker down for good, or at the very least enough time to reload.

>>682318

Savage Axis XPs come with scopes already bore-sighted.

https://www.savagearms.com/content?p=firearms&a=product_summary&s=57261

https://www.cabelas.com/product/SAVAGE-AXIS-II-XP-W-WEAVER-SCOPE-RIFLE/1849999.uts

>>681611

Yes, 24, not 14. I'm retarded.

>>682389

>b-but single shot

Anyone who legitimately argues this has never seen a single shot shotgun speedrun. Vid related is average, not great.

>>683093

Good point on the Savage. Better option since it has optics installed.

>>679040

Can attest. Maverick 88 can take a lot of abuse love. You can do so much worse for the price it asks for.

>>683139

Need to update the date, underneath the title.

>>683180

its better to have too much ammo then not enough ammo

>>683139

For shotgun ammo you should add RIO 00 buck. Pretty cheap, but works pretty well.

>>683203

Assuming that's not a doctored screencap (very easy to fake) he's not wrong. Most people do associate that battle flag with racism because the CSA government was motivated primarily by a desire to keep race-based slavery legal. And he started off his comment with "you should have the freedom to fly it about anywhere you want." He's not cucked, he's just recognizing reality, and most people only have a surface-level understanding of most things.

>>683204

Oh god, the cuckchan is invading 8chan.

>>683203

He's basically stating that most people are retarded, he didn't state his own opinion about it except that he wants people to be free to use it. Try harder.

>>683206

Did you not actually read what he wrote?

>>683139

you can get the ATI Omni Maxx for like $350 I'd replace the sport 2 with ATI Omni

On the recommended resources list, this video should fit in with the shortened link. There may be a better quality upload somewhere. Very good and largely comprehensive explanation for firearm mechanisms in normalfag friendly language.

youtu.be/9XiG8uo05pk

Is it (still) true that magtech ammo is inconsistent? It's alluded to in the ammo section. Though at the prices and skill levels we're talking its accuracy issues may not even matter.

Does Amazon still have that issue with counterfit Howard Leight headphones?

Is it (still) true that magtech ammo is inconsistent? It's alluded to in the ammo section. Though at the prices and skill levels we're talking its accuracy issues may not even matter.

Hoppes has come out with a cleaner+lube+brush+case kit for about what the cleaner+lube costs, so that should be replaced. Any other low price cleaner+lube options?

>>683356

I wouldn't replace it, but I guess it could be added. The polymer lower and its fragility is a big minus, but at the price ranges we're discussing and lack of low price, reliable, autoloaders I guess it could be added with a warning on that.

>>683356

I've heard Omni lowers are really niggered. Low amount of metal to polymer and they've issues with the buffer tube breaking off.

>>683102

Not as easy when you're full of adrenaline because you're being attacked

>>683368

On ammo, perhaps a warning about bulk winchester .223.

The bulk ammo in general seems to be quality control rejects. Couldn't make it through a magazine without FTE.

Same rifle with cheap Federal boxed ran well.

>>683355

I'm retarded and used the wrong font for the changes. I'll fix it soon.

>Lights may just be limited to Steamlight since Surefire has shown themselves to not give a shit about the RTKABA with donations to democrats.

I memory-holed them. Any reason why we should list it with a warning, or is damnatio memoriae suitable?

>I have all (or most) of the original sized images if you need any of them.

I think we're good for this list. If we make a SHTF on a budget, they may come in handy, though.

>>683409

>On ammo, perhaps a warning about bulk winchester .223.

Anyone else have a problem with them? I don't buy .223, so I wouldn't know.

>cheap Federal boxed

Where do you live? Everywhere around here prices any Federal as match grade.

>>681369

Sadly no. Rather, places like classic firearms has them for sale for roughly $200. Their stock is hit and miss on quality, though. The Beretta 92S I got from them is mismatched and looks like ass, but the Star BM I got looks good but had a little bit of rust, however both function flawlessly with normal bullets if that if that's any idea of what to expect (92S jams a lot with flat nose and HP).

>>683759

Do Star BMs like hollowpoints? Thinking of getting some for stash guns.

>>683747

>>cheap Federal boxed

Midwest. The Federal 55g xm193 isn't so spendy though it is more than tula, wolf, etc.

>>683747

Winchester ammunition almost killed not one, but two of my fucking guns. Both a handgun, and a rifle. I personally am never buying their stuff again, but your mileage may vary.

>>683864

Do elaborate strelok.

>>679752

Then you'd want something like the Lee Turret press. Can easily swap out dies, load 100 rounds an hour safely, and get the whole thing for maybe $200. Add a decent scale, calipers, components and you're gtg

I've had mine for a long while

>>678989

Since this is the budget guns thread, can I also ask if there is a budget kit guide for poorfags? Also is it illegal to ship plates outside the continental US? Man, I don't want to have St clyde watch over me on the boogaloo/RW(now!)

>>683960

It might deal with ITAR shit if it leaves the US, but US territory is still the US. Only issue you'd have is local law and air shipping regs.

>>684021

>winchester .308

Oh boy I got one for you.

>out durr hunting with standard 150gr SP's

>see durr and take the shot

>gun whumps me like a .338WM

>the fuck is this bullshit

>case tore in two

>rest of bullets in the mag are seated deeper than they should be

>find out all the bullets are hand tight and can be pulled from the case with stupid ease

All I know is it was inconvenient having to recrimp 139 rounds.

>>683960

>>683973

I know zog made it illegal to ship level IV plates. I'm not sure about level III.

>>684021

Interesting stories. winchester is just too expensive for it to be worth it imo, I also like wolf better than tula just for the poly coating the put on the cases whereas tula is just bare steel.

>>680866

This

Might be a good idea to express the recoil difference between rifle and shotgun in numbers. Any good sources?

>>684376

Could use a power factor calculator, such as this one:

https://www.dillonprecision.com/power-factor-calculator.html

12 gauge slug has a power factor of 787.5 .

.30-06 has a power factor of 390.

So long as "power factor" is clearly defined as "an expression of recoil force used in shooting competitions" I think it would be clearly understandable to new shooters.

>>684464

I was thinking more comparative numbers. Even the normalist of normalfag can understand "three times" (to use a random number) is a lot more.

Federal doesn't list the total projectile weight of their shotgun loads, but checking around I find that 8 pellets of 0 shot is roughly one ounce, meaning 9 pellet shot is 492.1875 grains, though I have no idea how much the wad weighs. Using the advertised velocity and weight for Fusion MSR we get 170.50 power factor while Personal Defense Shotshell with Flitecontrol Wad with the advertised velocity and estimated weight is 563.55 power factor (572.50 if we assume the wad itself makes the total an even 500 grains). That's 3.305278592375367 times the recoil, actually not too far off from the random example number. In prose, that's "over three times" or "less than one third" depending on the direction of the comparison.

>mentions of ecelebs

Should any of them even be on the list? Are there any gun ecelebs that haven't cucked out?

>>680185

>beef between bread with condiments isn't food

Bait this bad belongs on reddit.

>>683203

That's not exactly a good example of hickuck. You have his defense of the bump stock ban, you fruit.

>>683349

I'd say it's worth it to add some optics/accessories, at least useful ones. I know

>muh irons

is still a big thing, but even on a budget, you want to have the options available for the poorfag to select his best aiming options, whether it's cheap RDS, cheap scope, or cheap irons. I know the ATI Omni ARs I suggested are partially so cheap because they don't have optics bundled, so that would be useful.

>>683378

>>683356

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/search.php/q/ati%20maxx/caliber/10000601/sort/relevance

Price range. The only issue I've had with mine so far has been feed issues with shit tulammo rounds.

>>684481

>Should any of them even be on the list? Are there any gun ecelebs that haven't cucked out?

Reid (Valor Ridge) is very vocal about Trump's betrayals, Tim (MAC) is outright participating in the bump stock lawsuit, and Mrgunsngear frequently badmouths the NFA/Hughes when it remotely comes up (when looking at lowers/BCGs). Valor Ridge, Mrgunsngear, Paul Harrell, NSSF (though NSSF has become shit professionally) and AKOU all have good instructions on how to shoot. Brownells and Mrgunsngear have good vids on how to do basic gun work (disassembly, assembly, lube).

>>683349

Maybe List CLP as an alternative to the Hoppes 9 Oil/Bore Cleaner. Not as nostalgic, but It is literally impossible to screw up using CLP; and it's better in cold temps than the Hoppes.

>>684468

Not bad. Simplified enough for anyone.

>>684534

Only reason for the original suggestion was Hoppes was the cheapest to buy in a small quantity at the time I checked for the original chart. No objections to alternatives being added.

I can get a price matched pistol gripped stevens 320 tactical for $130 at Fleet Farm, but it does not come with ghost sights, just a bead on the very end.

Would it be worth it to put a reflex sight from an AR on the thing? I've never had a shotgun before.

Also I think it is pretty safe to lower the price on the infograph to $150 due to walmart.

>>684686

A cheap ~$100 red dot from a reputable brand is good if using it for defense.

>>684686

Red dot/holo is like cheating with a shotgun.

>>684686

Bushnell red dot for ~$50 on Amazon will be your best bet.

>>684021

I found that Winchester 12 gauge has a stupidly thick rim, fucked the extractor on my shotgun as well.

sage for double-post

>>684516

For "good instructions on how to shoot" lucky Gunner is good. Basic shit plus some more advanced drills.

Any comments on Pardner and Hatsen Escort?

ATI MB3 is a pump shotgun going for sub 150. Even see some listings for $120. Any thoughts on this?

>>680432

Chris Kyle was a retarded liar, so i doubt what he said has much bearing

battle rifle cartridges are for 500+meters or boomers and "muh stoppin powa"

>>683351

what a retard, hope he has mulatto grandchildren

>>680439

>I use 308 for home defense. Soft points don't keep penetrating forever, they run out of steam not too long after hitting a living being, the bullet expands violently and loses shape and force.

What if you miss?

Taurus G2C should be on the list

>>688050

Taurus can't even get firing pins right. They can and do break in the first two thousand rounds. No way I'd recommend them for defensive use.

>>686989

you missed the cockroach. seems you've struck the drywall behind him. There's a crib on the other side. How good of a backstop is drywall & 2.5" of fiberglass & another layer of drywall? Maybe you got lucky and hit a stud.

>>688052

>defensive use

>2,000 rounds

LOL

IT'S NOT A FLOOD, RON, FIX YOU SHEEIT

Is it true that SCCY has really bad accuracy?

>>685725

Tbh I'd probably shell out at extra 40-50 bucks or whatever and buy a Maverick 88. Mossberg is more reputable, has loads aftermarket stuff, and isn't THAT much more expensive.

>>688095

You may be surprised to learn that people practice shooting…

>>688096

As long as it stabilizes correctly it's sufficient at handgun distances.

>>679103

I've literally never shot a .410. Or a 20 gauge for that matter…

What are .410s generally used for? Good for small game I'm sure. Can you take down an antelope or deer with it? I'm not asking ethically, I'm asking practically.

What about ducks?

Aggressive featherless bipeds (via slugs)?

Honestly not dissing the .410. Just don't know anything about it. Should I buy the 12 or the 410 if I spend some beer money on the midland?

>>688102

.410s were created to be an extra handicap for super skilled skeet and trap shooters, throwing half an ounce of shot instead of one ounce that you get from 12s and 20s.

People buy them and put them in the hands of their kids, or their unenthusiastic wives, and take them out small game hunting, only to have them wound and lose animals as small as grouse and squirrels. People also buy a single-shot .410 as a "house gun" for Grandma–because if she has to fight for her life against some roid-raging 350 pound prison physique leading a home invasion with half a dozen of his homeboys, a Civil War era single-shot breechloader design using a cartridge that frequently fails to stop squirrels and bunny rabbits is an appropriate tool for her to use.

The .410 is an oddball borderline hipster cartridge with no real defensible reason to exist, at all. Not enough people are into sporting clays or skeet or whatever to make it profitable for the manufacturers for its intended purpose and it doesn't do anything else worth a damn. At all.

>>678989

>"Potmetal Jimenez guns are nigger gangbanger tier dangerous trash but potmetal Hi-Point and SCCY are A-OK by me! And Makarovs are perfectly suitable for home and self defense despite their 20+ pound DA triggers, microscopic sights, heel-clip magazine release, underpowered unobtainium hipster caliber chambering suitable solely for roadside executions of recalcitrant shtrafbatnikii who lacked sufficient revolutionary zeal and weren't willing to charge that MG nest unarmed, and the fact that Cold War milsurp collectors have driven the prices well out of starving poorfag territory. Also, we unironically endorse cap-and-ball revolvers for carry. And we think an inexpensive AR15 is acceptable but only if you load it with $1.50/round Gucci sooper dooper bonded bullets, even though .25/rd M193 Ball has been yawing and fragmenting in soft tissue and killing people real good for 55 years."

What, no muzzle-loading musket to round out the plate full o' stupid? It looks like my days of not taking this place seriously have come to a… middle. Even Operatorchan doesn't have this much idiotic dangerous bullshit crammed into one convenient infographic.

>>688102

If you live in a country with reasonable gun laws, .410 is only really useful for hunting small game. You could use slugs or 000 buck for medium game or HD if you really had to, but at that point you'd be much better off just getting a 20ga.

The other big application is for countries with shit-tier gun laws where centerfire rifles or large-caliber handguns are hard to get, so a .410 is the closest they can get to an actually useful caliber.

>>688161

I've heard of people in the UK cutting down all-brass .410 hulls and using them to handload .455 Webley ammo, but I think that falls under

>shit-tier gun laws

>>688052

Seconding not including Taurus. While it's possible there are some reliable individual firearms overall quality control is too low to ensure someone isn't wasting money on a paperweight.

>>688052

Is this a more recent incident involving the G2C/G2S I've just not heard about or are you just chocking it up to legacy Taurus?