/k/ - Weapons

Anything that's going to be a viable alternative to preserved foods is going to be freshly caught/grown. So fishing pole and .22 for them fish and small game gainz.

We need to store the seeds too. We need these to start our farms in the future new world.

Canned goods is an obvious choice, try to get different types of it. Honey could also be stored for practically forever if kept on a relatively low temperature (10-25 degrees Celsius) and under 60% "relative humidity"

not sure if this is the correct word, I used Google Translate. Now getting honey "by the bees" is difficult, I'm not really an expert of that.

>>655356

Good thing I don't plan to get rid of my grandfathers kitchen-garden, then. Fishing, on the other hand, is another story here.

>>655371

How do you learn how to farm nowadays if you or your family never had a land bigger than the aforementioned small plot of land?

>>655367

Isn't the humidity bad for storing sugar?

>>655373

You obviously can't use the sauna if you're using it for sugar storage.

>>655397

>Finnish people going without a sauna

You've destroyed my world view on finns.

>>655397

>choosing sugar over sauna

Does not compute.

>>655404

>>655406

He probably had another sauna that he was using, leaving the one he used for sugar storage a spare.

>>655404

>>655406

Maybe he is from a part of Finland that has more saunas than people?

>>655408

>Maybe he is from a part of Finland that has more saunas than people?

Is that not all of Finland?

>>655344

Canned goods are a meme. Hard to carry, require gigantic space to store, expensive, and only keep a couple years anyway. MREs are too expensive to seriously consider.

Sink a large watertank under your cellar/bunker and use dry goods instead.

Lentils+brown rice+honey is what you need. Keeps practically forever unless you don't store them airtight/watertight/away from sun exposure.

>>655430

>Canned goods are a meme.

Depends on. If you can afford to stay in one place, canned goods are rather easy to store and they don't occupy that much of a large space unless you are an urbanfag living in what could be described as the human equivalent of an anthill. You're right on carrying canned goods being a bad idea though.

>Sink a large watertank under your cellar/bunker

Or you can call an expert to dig a well for you. Go down to100 meters, that depth will provide you with an almost endless supply of fresh, drinkable water.

>Lentils

>Keeps practically forever

Indeed but it is recommended to eat it after a year. The more you store it, the longer it will take to cook it.

>brown rice

A man of good taste.

>>655372

>How do you learn how to farm nowadays if you or your family never had a land bigger than the aforementioned small plot of land? That’s a little bit ignorant of you because I know how to garden and the land is quite huge if it is 100% fertile it can feed the whole world for decades. You can just literally start your own secret bug out indoor farm on anywhere without owning the lands.

Damn, I messed my green format up.

Consider instant ramen and bouillon cubes.

>>655486

That's how entire third-world countries live, and they somehow manage to overpopulate. No surprise there.

>>655481

Maybe I wasn't clear. How can I learn how to farm nowadays if mw or my family never had a land bigger than the aforementioned small plot of land?

>>655551

I recommend the books of John Seymour.

is beer a viable drink when being physically exerted?

>>655672

>tastes like shit

>full of shitty carbs

>literally lowers testosterone

>doesn't even get you drunk unless you drink a shitload

No, just drink water and eat a cliff bar or something.

>>655356

>Fishing pole

Not bad, but a net is easier to use and you catch more than 1 fishy.

>>655551

Okay, my bad. You can create your vertical herb, fruit and vegetable garden on you home wall, ceil or roof. Use the wood or whatever and pots to build it.

>>655714

Nets can also be used for none-fishing purposes, like acting as a weaving base for a makeshift roof/wall, or a way to string up loose food supplies in trees to keep animals from getting at them. Purpose-made fishing poles aren't really good at being anything other than fishing poles.

>Fish

We need the tanks to grow the fishes for food but I never tried it yet so have anyone done this before? Not the pet thing please.

>>655773

I'd imagine they're really good for getting things out of storm drains.

>>655769

Seems simple enough, I'll try it. Does the herbs/fruits have to be "adults" already, or can I just plants seeds into the potting soil?

>>655672

yes, back before it became 5 Wetbacks doing one American's job, many top carpenters (framers) would drink beer at work all the time.

also perfectly common to bring on tough hikes,skiing, kayaking, etc.

dried fruit in re-sealing bags, body builder powder drink mix, home made jerky (avoid garlic as will spoil, stick to lime juice, chili pepper, soysauce, sugar)

>>655430

canned is still king for several reasons.

Not that heavy when you consider they don't require water.

You can use the can for other stuff, and it also functions as much better self contained reheater than that goofy MRE, unless you are unable to make fire. I heat cans of food under car hood. :)

Much cheaper and bigger VARIETY than anything else. If you stock a good VARIETY you will be able to trade at good rate.

Keeps longer than 2yrs, just might taste a bit "flat".

Tough packaging.

>>655859

varies by plant. I've tried 2x to get Winter Savory going and failed 2x.

others like tomatoes are fun and easy (I'm in CA!)

Pro Tip: your LOCAL garden/nursery will sell what works in your area. They wont be selling anything that isn't GTO for your area/time of year.

>>655672

Drink Posca instead. Healthier and cheaper. Put about two tablespoons of good vinegar (I prefer red wine vinegar) into a cup of water, add as much sugar/honey as you need (0.5-1teaspoons for me).

Make sure you don't smell it before drinking until you're accustomed to the taste.

Just stockpile rice and beans.

For rice, get a bunch of regular white and brown rice, plus some jasmine, basmati, and red rice, plus some quinoa.

As far as beans go, I just buy whatever is on sale at the time, so I've got a bunch of black, pinto, red, and white beans, plus lentils and chickpeas.

Buy a bunch of seasoned salt (I use taco seasoning), some dry bouillon or soup mix, some cheap oil, and even some dehydrated/freeze-dried/canned veggies if you want, and you'll get good variety out of it.

It's cheap, gives you pretty much everything you need (including a complete protein), and is easy to cook (there's an art to getting both the rice and beans perfect, but you could always just boil the shit out of them both if you're lazy.)

>>655856

I think the first picture is better than second picture however, it needs the wheels to make it movable so you can take it with you to anywhere with ease.

>>655859

>Does the herbs/fruits have to be "adults" already, or can I just plants seeds into the potting soil?

Either one of them, really. I bought the baby blueberry from Bunnings shop and planted it in the used pot filled with mixed soil and liquid fertiliser. It is growing quite well. Also, I bought the herb plant from the grocery shop and planted in the water pot, but unfortunately died due to my negligence. Yes some plants can thrive in the water pots!

>>656645

Pemmican is expensive and not that good for what you get. It also goes bad pretty fast due to the water content/fat content. If I'm making dried meat anyways, I'll either make jerky or I'll make jerky and dried berries preserved in honey to stay out of ketosis.

>>656645

pemmican is a lot of work for little reward. As >>656941 mentions that shit expires fast and the amount of food reaped is a small amount, hours better off gorging on the fresh meat and storing it as fat.

>>655430

>"canned goods are a meme because they're heavy and expensive"

>"install a fucking watertank filled with rice and honey under your cellar"

Please tell me this is b8. I can get chef boyardee for 50 cents a can, each of which holds 500 calories and can be eaten without cooking.

Do you have any idea how many calories it takes to gather wood to start a fire to eat every meal? Far more than you'll ever burn lugging around whatever extra weight the aluminum of the can comes out to.

>>656941

>>656645

>>664077

Cured sausage?

>>664078

Canned goods also risk botulism.

>>655672

Make grog instead

Dried rice, beans and pasta are best natural things to stockpile. Mountain House is best for MRE tier shit you can buy over the counter. Canned food is good supplemental but dont bank your whole survival stash on cans

>>655486

Reads like an action novel. Really gud shit.

>>655551

start with tomatoes and spinach.

both are easy and much fun.

spinach is "fastest to harvest" of ANY food I know, and high in protein for what is basically "grass"

Its fairly large and powerful seeds means it has robust "start in life".

Tomatoes on vine are far superior to any in stores, and fun and easy. Tip: when transplanting bury 75% of young tomato plant, tomato "indeterminate" in that stems will turn into roots.

>>664133

I've literally never seen a canned good go bad. I have friends who come from mormon families that consume 40-50 year old cans routinely with no issue.

I've gone the whole "dry rice and boil everything" path. It sucks. It's a waste of energy to start an unnecessary fire and it takes too much time to cook. The only downside to a can is weight and BPA, and BPA is my last concern if I'm faced with starvation. Weight really isn't that bad.

>>664180

I've had one jar of fermented honey out of maybe 120. It was previously unopened and already crystallized but it was fermented top to bottom. Fucking jar must have been dirty when the beekeeper filled it up or I don't know. One reason people will take sugar over honey is the price. Real honey is usually more expensive than even molasses. Sugar won't spoil if it's stored right and it's much cheaper to buy in bulk. Sugar can be used as preservative all the same and it's almost as good as honey when applied to wounds. Honey doesn't work so great because it's antibacterial but because it delivers loads of simple sugars (fuel) directly to the damaged tissues and seals the wounds closed, cutting off oxygen and letting carbon dioxide accumulate. Sugar can also be used to make onion and garlic syrup that's great for any upper airways infections, colds and similar winter ails.

Also don't keep just sugar. Stockpile sea salt, it's one of the few reliable sources of trace minerals you'd have after SHTF, especially if you live in a place with mostly depleted soil. I don't know about you, but I'd feel pretty miserable if the only food additives I had available were sweet.

>>655344

>More than a dollar for chicken noodle soup or beans or basic vegetables

Where the fuck is that? That's ridiculous. Even fancy soup in a box is only like $3 for shit like lobster bisque.

>>664077

>>656941

I wanted to specify if it's a large-scale SHTF scenario and you are making pemmican (or some nigger-rigged approximate) from something you hunted, than it has a decent work to reward ratio because it's a high-fat item that has sugar to keep you out of ketosis and gives you something to shit out (remember: painful/hard/prickly shits are better than no shits, since no shits means your body isn't removing waste matter). The "expensive and not that good for what you get" part comes into play if you're preparing food ahead of time for SHTF since there's better (if not a bit artificial) alternatives.

>>664184

Salt also has a number of medicinal, other industrial uses.

While you can use salt to prepare meats, you can also get bulk salt and use it as a currency.

Note for any sea-streloks, figure out a way to reliably desalinate water, or else you could find yourself in trouble. The dry salt bi-product of desalination can be traded with inland people for meats and other products if need be.

>>664190

you talkin the generic soup of gucci Campbells?

Depending on how high the cost of living is, a single serving of canned soup is around 1.5USD-4USD/per CAN

alternatively just dumpster dive for dented cans… NOT the bulging ones though

>>664191

food prep/preservation pre and post SHTF are completely different topics. you want the most longevity beforehand, and the most bang for your buck post SHTF.

>>664180

Honey tends to be more expensive for starters. Making sugar is fairly easy so long as you understand you won't get pure white refined sugar. You can make it from basically anything that contains sugar. Shit, agave nectar stays good for two years which is more than enough time to grow new/more plants. Another important point is that honey is unsuitable for infants because it contains botulism (more or less ALL honey contains botulism. It's inactive in the honey because if it turns active, the hydrogen peroxide produced from the honey would kill it and it can't compete with bacteria in your gut). If you have a bee farm, honey is a great sugar source/preservative, but while it's definitely a good option, it also has its downsides, namely storage space (as compared to sugar which in its powder/crystal form acts like a "semi-liquid" in that you can manipulate it into whatever shape you need whereas honey needs a container), tends to be a more luxury item, tends to be cheaper (pre-SHTF), and tends to have a slightly wider range of uses (you can mix ground vanilla beans or orange peel into sugar for flavoring. You can't do that with honey). Plus if I'm fermenting anything for booze, it has to be sugar or sugar-syrup of some sort- honey works, but it has to be super diluted to keep the naturally forming hydrogen peroxide from mixing with water from killing everything. If you live in a wet climate, it's also easier to keep sugar preserved open-air using desiccant packs and other tricks whereas the only way to keep your honey from fermenting is to keep it in a dry box or keep it air tight. I'll champion honey any day, but other sugars have their uses and reasons for existing as direct competitors to honey.

>>664184

Fermented honey is usually due to high moisture content. If the water content is high enough, it stops forming into hydrogen peroxide and then yeast can live in your honey.

>>664184

>I've had one jar of fermented honey out of maybe 120. It was previously unopened and already crystallized but it was fermented top to bottom. Fucking jar must have been dirty when the beekeeper filled it up or I don't know.

Dirty jar shouldn't matter too much. What happened was that water got into it somehow and allowed the fermentation to happen.

>One reason people will take sugar over honey is the price.

True. Then again it's not some astronomical price and you get the advantage of not needing to build a special storage space - so long as you keep the jar sealed, you can store it wherever. You could do the same with sugar, I suppose, but you'd need to buy jars separately as sugar usually comes in paper bags. Thanks to honey having higher energy content, you also wouldn't need as much of it as sugar.

Dried legumes (beans/lentils/peas) and grains (primarily rice.) Are the best foods for long-term food storage. They're cheap and last basically forever. They also go with almost everything. So you know that fish you just caught? Well it just went from "barely filling" to "hearty meal." Other than that, freeze-dried cabbage, sweet corn, carrots, etc are good to add a little flavor and variety.

Canned foods are good in theory, but only if you eat canned foods on a regular basis anyway and cycle through your supply so they don't go bad good luck with your BPA induced low-t. because while I'm sure some canned food can last for decades, most (from what I've seen) only last for 5-10 years. I've heard the "yeah but it's still good after the expiration date" argument, and while I'm sure it's mostly true, just think, would you rather eat dried beans that are 100% safe, or canned beans that are 98% safe? If you're eating canned goods every day after a shtf scenario, then eventually one of those expired cans is going to make you sick. Keep a few on hand, but treat them like booze, either to be enjoyed as a rare treat, or traded to losers who don't know what they're doing.

When it comes to meat, it kind of depends. Meat goes bad fast no matter what you do to it, with the exception of freeze drying, but then it'll taste like sponge when you do finally eat it. Then again, low quality meat is better than no meat. Other than buying it freeze-dried, your best bet is jarred/pickled meat. Jerky is more about portability than storage, don't buy it expecting it to last more than a year. If you just killed a goat/hog and you're hoping to keep it for a while, try salting it. It's the best method of preserving meat for DIYers, even then though it'll only last a few months.

Sugar lasts a long time, but is empty calories. If you do have some, treat it like you would alcohol, it's meant for the occasional treat or for trade, not to be used in your everyday recipes.

Throw out your sugar and buy some seeds you can plant when the grid's down. Cabbage is a big producer, and can be turned into sauerkraut.

>>656645

Pemmican is like jerky, it's meant for ease of transportation, not long-term storage.

>>665149

>Throw out your sugar and buy some seeds you can plant when the grid's down.

Tbh if you're setting up agriculture yourself, you're either deep, deep innawoods and could easily make do with hunting and gathering, or you're dead meat. No matter how well prepared you are, you won't survive long if you're near other people. In fact, being well equipped only makes you even less likely to survive, as you'll be a tempting target. Foodstocks should be a temporary measure until you either get a group together to do something more serious than small time gardening, or fuck off somewhere far from civilization (and even then you should be prepared for some assholes discovering your hideout and deciding they want your shit).

>>665402

>Could easily make do with hunting and gathering,

That may have been true back when there were more buffalo than people, but nowadays, you want every edge you can get. Even if you're in the middle of nowhere, having a garden can only help. Even if you're just growing spices to make your food taste better. Hunting/gathering is a last resort, not shouldn't be both your first and last line of defense against starvation.

Also, dehydrated onions are fucking great, add those to your food storage.

>>665448

>That may have been true back when there were more buffalo than people

Surely US has plenty of wild game to hunt? Even over here, in our piddly forests surrounded by urbanism, we have issues with an overpopulation of wild boars and deers. And you can find massive amounts of mushrooms, blueberries, and other forest fruits in every larger forest no problem.

But yeah, I guess that if you go the hermit route, having a garden of your own would save you a lot of time andgive you more variety. Still, I don't think the hermit route is the way to go if SHTF.

>>665580

>As for foraging mushrooms and berries, unless you know EXACTLY what you're doing

Well, I do. Everyone here does – mushroom gathering is something almost everyone in my country did at some point, many doing it every year.

>You want a small group of close friends and family you know you can trust.

Agreed.

>don't know how to hunt, trap, or farm because no experience in any of it

>can't go find a small town or farm because they'll just shoot you on sight for being an outsider to their little community

>family lives far away, not many friends, don't have anyone you can really trust when SHTF

>tfw you know you're going to be shit out of luck come SHTF

Feels shitty. Guess I can at least shoot a few assholes before dying.

>>665606

>>665603

ad garthering:

I don't know about the americas, but over here, only few mushrooms are actually poisonous - many are inedible unless prepared correctly, meaning you'll get the shits but won't be endangered on life, with the few that actually are poisonous usually being only mildly so, very clearly distinguishable, or exceedingly rare. In fact it's so simple to tell most mushrooms apart that people usually bring their kids to help. As for other kinds of gathering, I'm not really sure what you could mistake a wild blueberry or strawberry for – at worst you'll forget to wash them after some fox pissed on them, I guess? Every couple years, when at relatives, we grab a couple jars and go fill them with wild blueberries so that we can work them into pies and milkshakes. There's so many of them that there's no way you could just run out of them. Hell, some assholes even turned it into a bussiness, sneakng into nature reserves with special combs so that they can harvest industrial quantities of wild fruits. One person could easily gather enough to sustain himself throughout the year, provided he can store them (either have a freezer or work them into a jam, etc.) and subsidies them with meat (sure, taking down a deer might be hard and take days, but that deer will last you a long time before you consume it). Growing your own will of course add more variety and grow your food supply, but hunting and gathering can definitely work as far more than just a rare supplement to your diet.

>There's a reason big cities import a shit-ton of food and New Yorkers don't just go to central park to pick berries and mushrooms for dinner.

The reason being that it takes assloads of time, not that it couldn't be done, provided berries and mushrooms grow there. No NewYorker is going to return home from his shit job and go "Time to go to central park and spend five hours picking berries".

>>665609

Yeah, this is what I'm talking about – the perfect gatherer. So long as you aren't blind, you can gather berries even if you have no skills. If you get your hands on some book about mushrooms or just print it from the net, you could gather those as well, along with other things (wood sorrel is very sour, for example - you can use it for flavouring instead of lemons. Toxic, but harmless if you eat it in moderation)

>>665603

Seems pretty nice and thorough, I'll make sure to read the pdfs. Thank you for the help.

>>665603

Thanks for the PDFs anon. More info is always better than less info.

>>665606

>Well, I do.

Good for you, but don't forget that as soon as the shit hits the fan, you're competing for the same resources with everyone else in your area. I'm not gonna pretend I know about the population to wild edible flora ratio in the Czech Republic, but I still don't think that relying on foraging as your first and last food source is a good idea.

>>665609

Move to Podunk USA while you still can. Evacuate the cities ASAP. You're better off in a single-wide trailer in a small town than you are in a mansion in a big town. You can make friends when you get there, go to a church and talk about how much you love Jesus, and hate faggots (even if you're actually an atheist cock-gobbler.)

The best time to learn to farm/garden/trap is 5 years ago, the second best time is right now.

>>665513

>overpopulation of wild boars and deers

Don't rely on that for more than a single year once SHTF. The main reasons there's overpopulation issues are that right next to all the forests are giant modern fields full of produce and villages with nutrition-filled trashcans. That won't hold true, and so once the first winter post-SHTF hits, there'll be no overpopulation anymore.

https://anonfile.com/I0k2v6f6n5/11_Foods_That_Never_Expire.pdf_rar

Guinea pigs are good food source and they keep your lawn short.

>>667691

Yeah, they're called guinea PIGS for a reason, I've heard they eat them like chicken down in south america. The only animal that I've found to have a better feed-in to food-out ratio was the rat, and I don't think anyone wants to farm rats. Although apparently the meal worm is really efficient too, but they don't have any fat on them, so they're more like a garnish than a meal ironically enough.

That being said, chickens for eggs, goats for dairy, and pigs as walking edible compost bins is probably the most likely scenario for anyone that wants to start an off-grid farm.

>>667809

And if you have the know-how to sheer them, sheep could be better than goats, but I'm convinced that you'd be better off growing hemp or linen to make clothes instead of wool if you're worried about that. Wool fabric production is a bitch and a half.

The salted egg yolk can last up to 12 months so it is perfect for the people whom are having long winter or the eggs are neither unavailable nor untrustworthy to eat.

Some time ago an anon here suggested an eel farm. Eels are hardy creatures and eat everything. If you have a water body on your land(or make one), it shouldn't be too hard to raise them.

>>667811

For clothing I'd say you're better off stocking up now or scavenging later, textile production has been notoriously difficult and time consuming prior to industrialization. There's good reason why good Greek and Roman wives spent all their time spinning yarn. If you want to try, I suggest making rope out of plant fibers. It'll take you around an hour to make a string that's a few inches long.

Recently became a farmer, and have been preparing for this for 12 years. I'll answer basic questions to anything in there. I'd start clearing up some of the false notions already posted, but to be honest there's tons.

I can tell you about:

aquaponics

small scale farming

tools for small scale farming

soil management

canning

farm animals and applications

resources online or books for year round farming

root cellars, cold frames, hoop houses, wallapinins, chinese greenhouses, etc

off-grid shit

and some advice on scaled up operations for mid-tier farmers who own more than 5 acres, but less than 100

Not gonna claim to be an expert, but I have honestly spent a lot of time researching this shit, and running cost v reward scenarios all the while. Most of the time if you've got an income source, just buying what you need is gonna be "cheaper" in terms of time and money, but most farmers and off-grid homesteaders are hours out from the nearest stores, so fuel, wear on equipment, and travel times start playing a much bigger factor.

>>675487

Soil management, please. Especially with regards to water and erosion control.

As far as cost effectiveness, my rationale is this.

The goal is not to be 100% self sufficient, at least not pre-collapse. The goal is to maintain the tools, knowledge, skills, and systems necessary to create value without outside input. Trying to get in-situ production of food, power, et al up and running when failure means starving to death is a recipe for suicide. But if you already have established systems that work, even if production is only nominal, you can always scale up to match demand.

Furthermore, every item you don't buy with fiat currency is another thing you're not dependent on someone else for. It might not be worth it from a strictly economic standpoint, but how much do you value that lack of dependence?

>>675486

there's so much textile around nowadays that scavenging for it shouldn't be a problem. At worst, you can just collect rags and sew patches from them on any tears your clothing gets. It's not very dificult - even an amateur can sew patches well if he dedicates enough concentration and time to it.

>>675494

>>675487

are natural fertilizers (like cow shit) viable, or are the too ineffective compared to artificial ones? Can human shit be used for this purpose?

What about chemical treatment of your crops (against insects, etc.)? Going full bio is, AFAIK, going to result in risking some of your plants getting sick, which will fuck you up if you don't discover it and eat them, while using too much chemistry is bad for obvious reasons. How much would you advise?

>>675497

>are natural fertiliizers viable

Depends. You're not gonna cover 40 acres with cow shit, unless all your neighbors are ranchers, and even still there's a method to it. You need to sit the manure for a year to kill off all the harmful bacteria and whatnot that'll give you botulism, or having it still decomposing so hot it kills the plant. Same with human manure (dark soil). If you have a small garden, then composting leftovers, using manure, and older techniques will work well enough that it'd beat spending money for inorganic fertilizers.

As for pesticides, again this all depends on the scale: if you have 100 acres of crops and need to keep it bug free, you're looking at either pulling a spray tank with a tractor, or paying for a crop duster.

I'll state again: I can't really advise you what'll work best for your situation without knowing more about the scope and scale. There's a big difference between 100 acres with 3 wells pumping 100+gpm on sandy loam, than a half acre plot with no well sitting on clay. If we're talking ~5 acres and a water source, I'd recommend full organic. If you can, get an outhouse above ground with a 50gallon that didn't contain anything hazardous, and place it under the seat. Use it, toss in some moss or ash from your fireplace between stools, and once it's full, pull it out, cap it, and store it away from your house for a year. You'll be surprised just how little manure you'll have for the field though.

As for plant health, you're gonna get more diseases if you're not rotating the crops. You don't want to plant legumes twice in the same lot, and you don't want to plant nothing but wheat in a field over and over again if you don't intend on using synthetic fertilizers all your life. No matter what route you go, you're gonna need to know what your plants need in terms of soil composition. You can get test kits fairly cheap to see what your soil is base, and most labs will do a pretty comprehensive analysis for less than 60EU. This is just my opinion, but if you can avoid synthetic fertilizers and pesticides, do. You're better off buying 10 acres of land and doing it organically, than 5 acres of land and needing every plant to be perfect. Again, depending on your scope, most small scale farmers use cover crops to maintain their soil health. As in the video, they are very multipurpose: you can have animals graze them, they act as a moisture retention barrier to give the new crops a head start, they compost naturally to raise your soil nitrogen and keep the worms and bacteria happy. What the video doesn't mention, is that a seedbox; an older piece of equipment that drops seeds behind rakes that dig a couple inches into the soil then packs it down with tires, is a very effective no-till alternative (for small scale hobby farms) if your soil is soft enough.

>>675487

What is the most efficient meat you can farm?

If all the stores suddenly went down, how would you continue to fed your chickens? Is there a way to consistently feed them without outside aid?

What are the top "producers" vegetable wise? I'm planning on potatoes and cabbage

What's the easiest fruit to grow?

How would you power your stuff in a permanent grid-down scenario?

Have you ever fucked on of your animals?

How was it?

>>677840

>What is the most efficient meat you can farm?

Rabbit if pure meat, chicken if you count the eggs too, and goats if you want meat+milk, sheep are neat because wool since otherwise you'd need to have some flax too, or wear pelts.

>top "producers" vegetable wise

Potatoes are good, but don't forget beans too.

Cabbage is healthy, but produces relatively little calories. Good to avoid scurvy.

Pumpkins are relatively good too, IIRC.

>What's the easiest fruit to grow?

Old variants of apples. Walnuts also grow easily and chestnuts can be ground into flour and were always a starvation food around these parts.

>>655344

Lots of carrots, beets, turnips, and potatoes like a true Rhinelander

>>675497

Different anon here, but natural fertilizers are effective, if you use them periodically. The benefits of it are that there's more organic matter and micronutrients provided to the plants. It also lasts longer.

The downside is that per lb there's less npk than in synthetic fertilizer, and it's not available to the plants right away in the form they can absorb.

Camel is good alternative meat and milk for the farm people living in the desert area or are suffering from drought.

>>677840

>What is the most efficient meat you can farm?

Depends on how sad you're willing to be, anon. Soldier flies get the meme answer, since you can feed them anything, and eat the grubs for super easy protein.

The US "I'm not living poor enough to survive off bugs" answer would be a combination of critters: chicken/guineas/ducks + eggs, rabbit meat (rabbit meat is very lean, so pair with other proteins to get a more balanced diet), pheasants, or pigs if you have the land in a basic homestead setup and want critters that don't require any input. The trick here is to diversify your animals, and to utilize them for as many tasks as you have on your farm/land as you can.

Chickens/guineas are great at scratching and tilling the land, while eating all the bugs that'd threaten your crops and guineas will alert you to anything around you. Ducks are nice as they tend to be quieter, lay bigger eggs that are better in baked goods and if the breed is carefully selected, you can get nearly the same production as what a chicken will lay. I went with ducks, since in my local neighbor economy everyone sells chicken eggs. Quite a few neighbors like duck eggs for certain things, so we trade eggs. I paired them with geese, and have had an easy time with them. My geese trained my ducks, so all I have to do is hijack their training to get them to move where I want them. The geese are perfect guard dogs, and will drive out most smaller pests (bugs, mice, snakes, racoons, and probably foxes in an area where food is readily available).

Pigs will forage completely on their own (as will most breeds of chickens, and a few breeds of ducks), and can be used for clearing forested areas out for fields. The downside is they tend to disrupt land as they forage, so if you have nice gentle hills you want to farm, know that a pig will wreck shit. You could alternatively go with a breed known for being less likely to root, or pen your pig and feed it scraps. They eat just about anything, so it's easy to supply them with food.

Goats are a fantastic choice if you're looking for milk, something that can mostly survive on what they forage, and relatively tasty meat + decent leather. I recommend the dwarven variants, as you can have more on the same land, control their impact better by thinning the herd without adversely effecting reproduction, not immediately filling up a chest freezer on one source of meat, and also nigerian dwarves have the highest fat % in their milk; better for butter, better for baking, better for ice cream. Rabbits are decent, but I recommend using them in conjunction with greenhouses since they take up so little space. You can pen them and put them in a greenhouse to raise the overall CO2 in the structure, and you can add their pellets into the field to raise your nitrogen. The pellets breakdown slower than most manure, which is nice as it doesn't spike the levels too hot, and you get a consistent release into the soil. Getting an angora rabbit can not only yield decent hides, but you can also harvest their wool and have rather nice wool stock. This can either be sold, or processed by yourself. Cuttings from your field/greenhouse go right back to the rabbits.

You could go sheep as an alternative, or in conjunction with goats, but know that both require more infrastructure: goats need powerful electric fences, or expensive mesh fences ran around the perimeter, and even then you risk one getting out. With sheep you need a fenced in area, and usually a herding dog/guard dog as sheep are defenseless from 4 and 2 legged adversaries. Sheep and goats also smell pretty awful. Wool is a pretty decent textile that can be traded, or used by yourself, and sheep are less apt to escape your fence.

You always have the option to get a heffer, that you can get milk from, and occassionally pay to get insemenated for selling/eating the calf. Obviously if you have big pastures, it would be a good idea to have a few head that you can sell for income. Cattle are pretty intensive though, thus I won't really go into any further details.

>>678203

You need to mix and match for your time, resources, environment, and your natural predators.

I recommend smaller animals over larger ones, as you can always get more to meet your needs, but having too much body weight draining too many resources will be more of a burden than a boon. Also look into raising grubs, silkworms, mealworms, flies, worms/nightcrawlers. You can utilize most of these thing for multiple crops with next to no investment, and your farm animals will enjoy the easy protein. If you get bigger critters, look into butchering, and into leatherworking. If you have to drive an hour into town and pay someone 60 bucks to slaughter your goat/pig, you're probably ending up with fairly thin margins. Butchering is relatively inexpensive to get into, and is easy enough to master to warrant the time learning the skill. Better still, if you expand your list of animals you can butcher, you'll find yourself getting requests from others. Additional income.

>if all the stores suddenly went down, how would you continue to feed your chickens? Is there a way to consistently feed them without outside aid?

In the event of a SHTF scenario, you should have all the means on hand to continue feeding any of your animals. Chickens are amazing foragers as I've mentioned. Goats, pigs, sheep, birds, and even a small head of cows can be kept alive all year long with smart crop choices, cover crops, and any small insect farm you've got going on. With bigger animals, it may be necessary to provide hay depending on your location, and your success with your crops. It'd be advisable to set aside part of your lot for growing hay, and to use your cover crops as forage in the winter months. Cattle make a good symbiotic relationship to cover crops and soil health as well. This is discussed further in >>675494 's video.

>What are the top "producers" vegetable wise? I'm planning on potatoes and cabbage

Not bad choices. In terms of "top producers", that's not really something that can be properly quantified. There are many perenials that can produce year round with one seed, and there are many annuals that can produce very little, but take next to no resources to grow to maturity, and can be grown 2-3 times in a season. Your water availability, soil conditions, altitude, and growing season are gonna be the bigger determining factors in this. It's also important to note that some of the better choices for your area, might depend on what your stock can eat, whether or not your have a root cellar, if you're canning your extras, or if you're looking for cash crops. Your tastes will also play the biggest factor in this, since growing something like wheat that may work great in your area, might be useless to you if you're on a gluten free diet.

https://www.almanac.com/gardening/frostdates

has some decent info, and recommendations for your area, but it can't take into account things like microclimates, greenhouses, and won't recommend based off of long term storage, soil requirements, or other parameters. If you can, I say try to grow anything you can think of, and see what works and what doesn't. Seeds are cheap, and you'll be surprised at how some more exotic foods you've never heard of before will do on your property, and how decent some can taste. There's also hundreds of different breeds of every vegetable you can think of. Non-GMO, heirloom varieties, hybrids, and monsanto crops are up to you what you pick. I personally go for heirloom seeds, as I harvest my own seeds to put back in the ground later, but that's not to say that going with a hybrid is a bad decision. You can get much better yields out of a hybrid strain at the tradeoff of not being able to harvest the seeds for next go around.

Don't forget that crop rotation is the bigger key to success here. You can't/shouldn't grow generation after generation of the same stuff in the same place.

There's also the seasons to take into account. Not all plants grow in the same seasons, and proper planning of your fields can yield a very long harvest season for you.

>>678209

>what's the easiest fruit to grow?

That again will depend on your area.

https://www.plantmaps.com/index.php

will show your local hardiness zone. You can't really grow a fruit tree in a zone it can't survive without going with dwarven varieties, and bringing them in when winter rolls around.

I'd like to mention at this point, that berry bushes are a fantastic source of vitamins, sugars, and flavors for when the long months of winter drudge on. Many berries can be turned into syrups, candies, or do well being frozen and cooked/baked with. As with your farm animals, look into fruits and berries that are multipurpose. Elderberries can be made into drinks, syrups, baked goods, dehydrated, made into alcohol, or fed to your chickens/ducks/pigs/goats. Grapes fall in the same category. Look into the different varieties and see what they excel at, and buy according to your needs.

>How would you power your stuff in a permanent grid-down scenario?

More SHTF stuff, or off-grid living. Solar and wind turbines are almost always gonna generate some energy. If you have running water on your property, you can make a small hydro-electric generator like the old lumber mill waterwheels. Any of these things however is only gonna generate a small amount of power that'll only be useful the second it's created without a battery bank. That's a pretty long topic, so I'd refer to you

https://www.altestore.com/store/calculators/off_grid_calculator/

which is a simple calculator based on your requirements of energy, your location's peak seasons for energy creation, and then advises a battery bank to keep you going through the low output seasons. Keep in mind, your solar and wind turbine farm is gonna much bigger than you'd suspect, as you need to overengineer it, as well as the battery bank to offset the non-peak times.

I'd stick to 12v as much as possible, and to either incorporate propane to offset your draws, or to expand into high energy systems designed around off-grid applications. You can get some extremely effecient 12v fridges and freezers that'd make a pretty big difference in your budgeting, but know they cost a pretty penny. You can also convert a chest freezer into a very efficient fridge with just a simple thermostat.

>Have you ever fucked on(e) of your animals?

No.

>How was it?

N/A

A couple of addendums:

Turkeys and pheasants are completely autonomous. If you have a good area for them to forage, they'll stick around. Harvest as needed.

Look into Root Cellaring by Mike Bubel. It has tons of info on how to make a root cellar out of anything, and what vegetables exceed in them. Thinks like carrots can be left in the ground, and merely covered with straw/hay bales, while things like apples do well in cellars with moist sand over top.

Look into a generator for high draw electrical items that rarely run. Shop goods like air compressors, drills, and the like. going bigger is a better idea. I think the idea is to have 30% more output than your biggest item's startup draw is.

>>678035

These are all good picks if your area supports them.

You can pick bushes and fruit trees based on your shade needs as well. A grape vine outside the sunny side if your house on a trellis will shade your home at the hottest times of the day, and in the winter, will allow full sunlight inside the home. Elderberries make a decent snowfence as well as shade a relatively small area. They'd do well to shade your driveway, lowering the temperature of any vehicles parked next to them. You gotta start thinking macro when it comes to your purchases. Make every plant do 5 different things, make every creature just as useful if not moreso. Find synergy between your animals and your plants.

>>655371

Make sure to get heirloom seeds and not Jewish single use Frankenstein seeds.

>>655372

A colony of honey bees just took over a birdhouse in my garden, what should I do?

>>655430

>>664179

I've eaten tins about 10 years out of date with massive dents in them and rust all over, perfectly fine.

>>655436

For meat tinned food is good, but knowing how to make Jerky and pemmican does no harm. Also, to store meat for a while you can simply cook it, put a layer in a pot, then pour liquid lard or tallow over it, then it will solidify and keep a good while. Eggs can be kept in isinglass or lime water.

>>665513

The see where I live, at least, has 1% of the fish it had two hundred years ago. Our wildlife is gone essentially.

>>667809

Mate mealworms are 30% fat, I breed them for my tarantulas. What I do is fill an old aquarium half way with flour and grains (mix of oatmeal, bran flakes, and corn flour, and wheat flour, simply because that's what I had) then cut up a potato, they eat ALL the moisture so the veg doesn't rot, don't pour water in or give them dripping vegetables though, it makes maintenance harder. Both worms and beetles are edible, the beetles being less fat, though I've never eaten a beetle, the worms are nutty in flavour. They can't climb smooth glass or plastic and thrive at room temperature. Also, waxworms are very good, they are parasites of honey bees so NEVER let them out! Keep them on oatmeal mixed with honey to be moist but not wet and cover the whole with a breathable fabric with very small holes. That's it. They live in the honey-oat mixture, make web everywhere, then become moths. Very fatty but perfectly edible, you might thing you've failed to get them to reproduce but they are microscopic when first born, really. Give it a while and soon you see them.

>>687211

Beekeeper here

https://www.dummies.com/home-garden/hobby-farming/beekeeping/how-to-capture-a-swarm-when-beekeeping/

Try this if it dont work oh well. If they swarmed already they might be flighty or just resting for a few days before taking off again

Sage for off topic

>>655356

thats not objective

facts below, butthurt warning

shtf historical example 1 • native americans numbered 15 million about 10,000 years ago and hunted many game species to extinction such as the antelope, buffalo and the horse. some cities had as many as a million people and subsisted in large part on hunters ranging far in search of game, and in small part on subsistence agriculture. this is basically what we would expect during shtf.

shtf historical example 2 • when settlers first came here 10 million of them (plus ~2 mil natives) almost exterminated all the game animals on the continent. including large seemingly indestructible ones like the buffalo.

common sense fact 1 • there are, what, 18 million people in an average american state? And anywhere from 10 to 50 thousand deer depending on how wild a state is, more rabbits and other game but not nearly enough. there are maybe enough animals for people to have six meals before all game is gone. even if you include pets and livestock thats not more than a months existance before the only other game left is long pig. look at venezuela, their oilp production gave tgem great pesticides and fertilizers, theyre an agricultural power in the region and all the socialists in un are busting ass to provide aid, but people are still setting traps for crows for basic sustenance. there simply arent enough animals to sustain people, and people wont just lay down and die they will eat all your food before they kick the bucket.

common sense fact 2 • there isnt even enough water to keep so many people alive without powered siphoning of aquifers.

>>687233

This is interesting information anon. I have never spent much time considering this particular issue. Not doubting you but your post is causing me enough stress that I would like to verify the data. Can you tell me how you came to these numbers. I am a vegetarian so no need for meat for me, but I would just like to get a feel for how this would go down in your scenario. Fewer deer means fewer deer eating my crops which is nice but I would like to think that some of the worlds animals would survive the collapse and in your scenario it seems unlikely.

>>687321

>trusting a leaf

>ever

There's over 800000 deer in New York alone, and there's enough meat for quite a few mouths.

>>687331

Your country have 300 millions or more people so when the shtf happens. The poor animals is going to be hunted to yhe extinct. I trust you to know that the dumb people can't into farms or whatever.

>>675486

This video was the reason the Brits invented shovels.

>>687333

They probably aren't into hunting either. Unless you mean hunting human beings which are soft easy prey.

>>687333

>>687331

Also, I think they are lying about the demographic situation and that there is probably 600 million people in the USA right now with 50% being new immigrants.

>>687321

Numbers are from memory, but even if I'm off by several times it's still going to be fucking horrible. The fact that starvation is an omnipresent problem means that humans have only ever been at peak population. This means our planet can maintain a maximum of about two million hunter gatherers. About a hundred million people with crop rotation, shit fertilizer, tilling, irrigation and agriculture. Two billion with advanced chemistry to create fertilizers and pesticides in bulk. About six billion with genetic engineering and all of modern science. Almost all predictions I've seen say we're going to peak at about 10 billion before mass famines set in, unless we invent a newer, better way to produce food.

SHTF assumes we're sent back in terms of technology to somewhere between hunter-gatherer stage and early agriculture. Which means there are several billion people extra, who should be dead, and who have no means of getting food. Expect all animals which can provide food to be be extinct fairly soon.

>vegetarian

By choosing to eat only vegetables you lower the competition for meat on the market, which makes meat cheaper, and stimulates meat farmers to produce more of it. On a long term basis, if everyone becomes vegetarian, it would require the cutting down of all forests and destruction of all ecosystems, because a mixed diet has a lower footprint.

>>687331

Do the math, that's still 23 people per deer, for four months, three meals a day, meat is about 100 calories per 100g, at 2000 calories a day starvation rations, the deer would have to yield about 12,000 pounds of meat for your claim to be true. I might not be 100% correct, but I'm 60-90%. You're not even 1% correct.

***Also even assuming 20,000 pound deer yielding 12,000 pounds of pure meat… what the fuck do you do after "quite a few months", or does your SHTF planning extend to only "quite a few months"?'''

>>687334

>you mean hunting human beings which are soft easy prey.

>Millions niggers goes banana for human meats.

That's a very grim future for the poor americans. I hope they stock their fertilizers and seeds up somewhere extremely remote and cold.

>>687336

>Do the math, that's still 23 people per deer, for four months

Still freaking out. I ran the number on the 'census' in California and proved to my husband that they were lying about the data and that the population was twice as high as they said because they don't count any of the immigrants. Then while visiting AZ I noticed in a nice semi upscale open air mall that I was the only person in stores who spoke English. Everyone else was some piggin English and hand signs to communicate because there were so many different nationalities present and no one could understand anyone elses butchered accents. These were fresh off the boat peoples from literally ALL OVER THE PLANET. I would have been surprised if there was two peoples from the same nation in that store.

So cut your scenario WAYYYYY down in terms of the time frame if you want to know the truth about the way things 'go down'.

>>687337

I fear you will have the same problem with bug people, anon.

>>687336

What's your first language? You've had quite a few of these fuckups across a few threads, that lead to hilarious misconceptions. "mouths" does not equal "months", much less whatever random assumptions you jumped to with your math. If you're saying SHTF, it's pretty safe to assume refridgeration is off the table, so you're gonna have to make essentially a tribe for hunting and gathering. A deer could feed an entire group for the day, or a preserved deer could probably feed one person for a month. You'll still need to supplement with grains and veggies, lest you get malnurished, so only applying meat to your dietary math is flawed.

>>687336

>vegetarian, it would require the cutting down of all forests and destruction of all ecosystems, because a mixed diet has a lower footprint.

What about vertical farms though? It don't take up too much lands. Cities will probably be empty after many people died out so it's a ideal place to turn the empty cities into mega vertical farms.

>>687341

Vertical farms don't work without power, strelok. You need to pump water up to the top of the stack, to have it filter down back into the pond to aerate the water for the fish. If you go hydroponic instead of aquaponic, then compound the need for working civilization further.

>>687339

Nah, we will be fine because there is plenty of animal meats to eat but I want to be a vegetarian one day. Australia have plenty of lands to fertilize the soils and create permacultural co-op farms. There is 25 or more million people so it is much fewer than your country.

>>687342

There is a steam engine on some property that I am looking to by and the mennonites set everything up for gravity water power already. It just needs some TLC also there are more technical ways to transport water uphill without power. It involves waste but it is still workable.

>>687344

I thought you guys were having a massive drought and the livestock were having to be mass slaughtered due to the lack of fodder and them starving.

>>687346

A sterling or steam engine is one viable fix, but automation is critical for those setups. I've looked into making my own tiered greenhouse for a while now, but ultimately decided against it, as any hiccups like a power outage will kill all your fish in less than an hour in a typical setup, and without proper equipment, you can't monitor and adjust the ph levels which would quickly kill crops. The system has never taken off, because it's too expensive of a system to set up, regulate, and monitor. You can get a lot done in a very small area, but 5 acres will grow far more food, with much less overhead and supervision. I would recommend looking into underground greenhouses if you really want to get into cheap and effective year round growing. Not to say such a setup as what you're describing as a bad one, it's just super rare to get water rights, to have a watermill generating power, or even a water ram. I'd say though if the price is right, go on it.

https://archive.is/rHd4L

Australia's livestock feed supplies in precarious position due to drought

It is probably crap. :(

I can never tell what is fake news and real news anymore. However, China is also having a bad year with Fireworms, environmental damage, pork livestock failure and have cut their exports of grain off (no more rice for the African negro who was completely dependant on China; they will have to feed their billions elsewhere). You will get a lot of pressure from China when things get rough; you saw them sail their battleship right into your harbor. like they owned the place and all the bug people met them cheering.

Here in the USA the breadbasket of the nation hast something like a 80% failure in crops this year due to flooding.

You can print money but you can't print food.

>>687348

Yeah I know, only the drug dealers can afford the nice greenhouses and equipment where I live. I grow outside for now but I am probably going to renovate a building myself so that I can grow partially indoors and things like mushrooms and fish need no sunlight so that is a positive. Man I would KILL for access to a good cave system.

I am trying to drag the husband kicking and screaming (not really, he is just overwhelmed by the idea of dealing with all that archaic equipment) into the situation. I don't think

>>687353

>vertical farming

CRINGE!

>terrace farming

BASED!

>>687353

>so in what way is my original claim that wild animals aren't enough to feed people…

I was clarifying that your numbers are so off the hip that 10 to 50 thousand deer per state was off by 780000 to 750000 in just ONE state, you're probably way off in the rest of your bullshit math. For example how indians killed all the antelope (pronghorn), killed all the buffalo (bison), killed all the horses (no, that was white folk, and it was strategic to stop the indians migration patterns with the buffalo) and then white man killed all the buffalo yet again. You have no clue what you're talking about, and all your math is made up numbers.

My original point was you're not be believed on any level, with my next point being it's not even worth the time having a discussion with you, because you can't even understand english.

There is also some pretty cool aquatic power systems that use water upstream to downstream pressure to power homes.

>>687358

It's honestly bizarre to hear someone else saying the same shit I've been telling everyone for years. No one takes production into account for alternative energy. I know what I do, because I've been planning my homestead out for over a decade, and I looked into many different options for many different price points. Solar is the least efficient form of energy you can get. whether it's the battery bank and cells failing, the panels degrading and needing replaced, the panels being damaged from hail storms, to the convertor needed to ramp the system from 12v to 110.

I have a book I converted to epub about underground greenhouses that's much better than vid related, but this is a good example of the basics. This guy spent way too much money on this setup. If you can keep it without a grounded structure, most counties can't tax you for a roof, laying over a hole. Just food for thought if you're really interested.

>>687347

Yes we are still suffering from the droughts but not everywhere is affected.

>>687351

Maybe you can do the herbs? Herb pots is a easy thing to do.

>>687360

I love Walipinis (autism moment)! I have so much info on them and even more ideas about new systems of airflow to prevent molds and fungus (all untested thus far).

Now check this out because you mentioned hail. People are having severe problems with hail ruining their greenhouse poly or glass (recycled windows etc) but there is a hail netting that you can install above the Walipini (or greenhouse) that is designed to grow under and will protect you from any breakage due to inclement weather as well. I haven't wanted to build my greenhouse until I was able to solve the poly damage issue because the expense to replace it was too high (I have seen whole greenhouses done in completely by the last couple years insane hail). Here is web site (there are others as well; most in partnerships with ag schools) on hail netting that will protect your investment.

http://www.smart-net-systems.com/agricultural-nets/crop-hail-protection

Also, have you seen Citrus in the Snow website with passive thermal air systems? You can use that for heating and cooling your house as well if you install a heat pump. I can tell that you are going to get a kick out of this guy! I think he is a frigging genius that is going to be a household name in the future. I love passive thermal which uses all the principles of the Walipini as well.

It is really nice to find another ag/prepper online. :) Fun. I hope this thread continues. I have so much information to share; years and years of stored alternative energy resources just tucked back in my head. I hope you get a kick out of Russ Finch…this increases the viability and northerly survival index for our people if we need to migrate to an environment that takes brains and strategic planning to get away from the zombie hordes of invaders appear on our doorsteps looking for "Brains" …

I am going to watch the video now! Thanks…you can never have enough new ways of seeing people experiment before you are ready to build. You are so lucky that you are building the sort of 'final phase' I am on my third permaculture food forest and I keep getting better at it, but it is a learning curve since things never work out quite like we plan.

>>687365

>herbs

Yeah…I just registered my own website that is probably going to deal with exotic spices and herbs grown in the greenhouses as well as wine and hard liquor (I am still learning to make these; my wine keeps on turning out with such high proof that it is basically a hard liquor; going to have to research that one; puzzling) and tobacco (I just planted 50 of these today for the first time ever; exciting) and perfumes (so putting that hard liquor distillery to good use as well doing double duty). Since it is slightly related I would still like to learn how to make basic pharmaceuticals/chemistry like insulin and other things that would be beneficial for our people in an emergency. I guess I could be an 'herbalist'.

So the drought is not as bad as they are saying? That is very good news. I swear that the 'weather channel' is worse than the tabloids at this point. We had some insane fodder prices here last winter/this winter due to flooding, something like $80 dollars for a square bale of fodder (no one can make money on that; it would push the price of meat through the roof; like several hundred dollars for one steak or something; I haven't done the math yet). Cattle are an atrocious ROI compared to fish which due to weightlessness is a much better ROI in terms of feed/meat production.

I liked the guy who posted the Guinea Pig video earlier in this thread as well. Those seem low maintenance and high meat to feed ratio as well and it would beat eating rat; if you had to eat meat.

>>687367

>heating

I'm going with embed related. I picked up a 10' dish for free off CL, and plan on putting mylar all on the inside of the dish to reflect it up to a copper tub with an inlet and outlet that feed into the wall of water tanks in the walipini to keep temps hot enough during the winter nights here. If the system turns out to be too efficient, and the dish is off more than it's on, I'll consider running a line into the house for radiant flooring. There's libraries already set up for solar trackers, you just have to follow the build instructions and download the software and you're good to go.

>>687368

didn't finish my thoughts, but instead of guinea pig, consider rabbits inside the cool section of the walipini. The book I mentioned goes into details on why they're a great combination within an underground greenhouse setup, and if you go with angora rabbits, you get the additional benefit of having good wool producers.

>>687368

That is excellent thinking anon. Top notch! I learned about parabolic mirroring from Frank Gehry's buildings where he literally vaporized birds (exploded them) in mid flight due to unintentional parabolic mirroring. So that is going to be an immensely powerful resource for you. I used to have a salad bowl I got from Smart and Final that was a perfect 2' parabolic mirror and you could set things on fire if they were the correct distance from the parabola. I used it for cooking since it outperformed any solar oven on the market by several hundred degrees. I never thought of using it to heat the water.

Great idea.

I have a 'thing' about rabbits (though it is a good idea). I grew up on a mini farm and we had five hundred rabbits. I think my rabbit raising time might be over. lol…no goats either. Sheep are much better, more amiable and well behaved. The last rabbit I had I kept under my ash tree to keep it healthy and alive so I know that they are one of the best fertilizer potentials out there…just eww rabbits again…you know?

>>687331

>There's over 800000 deer in New York alone, and there's enough meat for quite a few mouths.

That's assuming people will know how to properly store and preserve it.

>>687427

Your comment reminds me of that movie Into the Wild where he kills the moose and almost the whole thing spoils right in front of his face because he has no idea what he is doing.

I thought this guy was pretty interesting, he says at the end that he can do the whole thing in 5 minutes when he is not filming.

Also that might help them the first year but it would only prolong the cannibalism, lawlessness, disorder and murder.

>>687427

If you check the reply chain, you'll notice I already mentioned that I'm assuming preservation is off the table, but honestly it's not that hard to smoke meat, and not particularly easy to fuck up in a way that you wouldn't realize your mistakes and correct them.

>>687427

>That's assuming people will know how to properly store and preserve it.

Even assuming that, 800k deer can't feed 19m people for any significant length of time. Even assuming one dead deer per year, how many bulls and does do you need to survive each year to provide enough fuckenings for the next generation? Sustainable is not 23 people per deer, it's 5-10 deer per person.

That dude >>687331 complained about me being a few percent off but he was 200 plus times off the mark.

Zombie apocalypse won't happen because of some weird virus. It will happen because there's no other source of food, and the zombies will be well armed, as smart as you, and working as a team to hunt you down and cut pieces off you for food. Every time food got scarce humans have turned on each other and created a weird religion about it, it's not an exception it's a rule. Most people will choose not to die.

>>687367

You have too much fermentable sugar in your wine. And if it stopped where you wanted it to it would probably be horrendously sweet. The range from 8-14% abv is standard though I don't think most are at 14%. It's been a while since I looked at those numbers but I recall picking up a bottle every once in a while and seeing that it was high. I tried to make some sparkling mead at close to 14%, messed up on the math by just a little (yeast efficiency and so on) and ended up with 15% still mead. Can't carbonate it the natural way with that.

In any case the yeast is suffocating in it's own excrement instead of starving like you want.

Many people are tards so they will eat any wild animals instead of their animal farms. After few months they will start to starve to death so their choice is to rob the food resources from self sufficient people or eat the human meats to survive. It is a survival instinct so that is something we can't ignore because niggers are on welfare and can't into taking care of themselves. There is many videoes on niggers looting when government help become inaccessible to them. The nightmare will be even more hellish for the Americans when USA collapse.

>>655344

Rice, sago, Sago can go fucking old and be 20 years old and you can still eat it. IDK what they call it by you, we call it froggy eggs but it's like a type of pudding.

>>687560

Based on your local name, I'd guess tapioca pudding. Since tapioca is basically just a ball of starch, I'd believe it you when you say it lasts a long time.

>>687533

The leaf is a meme and should be ignored. The biggest issue with a SHTF situation is almost purely contained to big cities/surrounding sprawl. Once you go rural, everyone stops being retarded and understands how to take care of themselves and their families. Water would be an issue, but all of my neighbors have generators that'd last us until the fuel runs out. I've considered getting a flo-jack a couple times, but am not planning on getting one for a couple years still. I think the biggest thing in a SHTF situation would be for my state's militias to block the highways coming in, and mining the surrounding area to keep the fucking californians/texans/etc out. If you can keep out of staters from getting in, I just about guarantee we wouldn't have any issues with riots or people killing people for their food. We'd probably go back to trading goods and services, and I have a decent enough of a setup to have meat everyday (eggs, you stupid fucking leaf. chickens alone could keep 80% of americans fed for years), I have the ability to can my own veggies and grow my own food. Positive my neighborhood would be completely self sufficient, with a neighborhood watch keeping any unwanted people out. It's good not to live near useless people who are too lazy and retarded to feed themselves.

>>687579

>Once you go rural, everyone stops being retarded and understands how to take care of themselves and their families.

Niggers will never stop being tard. They don't care about your live nor everything. All they think during shtf happening is to live, eat and fuck just like in Africa. You need a crazily big amount of ammos to keep them at bay for long time until they are gone. Feeding the niggers endanger everyone lives so whip them if they do that.

>>687592

>that no more brudda wars tier image

peak delusion, when yuros arent hating burgers theyre constantly shit talking each other and hoping everyone else dies

before world war 2 there were near constant wars being fought in europe for more than a millennium

when shit eventually pops off over there every single one of those flags will be covered in blood

>>687579

Yes m8, that's the one. I cooked some that was 10 years past expiry date, not out of choice but out of laziness. After my loved one passed away I decided to go through the cupboard and I was fuckoff hungry. Internet said it was doable but I had my reservations. Turns out you can do, it just takes long to cook, but regardless, I read somewhere that somebody had eaten it 60 years after the fact and it was still good.

I can not believe that for cheap food, food storage and survival no one mentioned the OG or actually OS Survivalist Kurt Saxon who wrote the Anarchist Cookbook. He also had a survival newsletter that he eventually put into books. Here's free copies of his first four here.(Boy are you guys lucky you know me).

https://archive.org/details/KurtSaxonSurvivorVol.2/mode/2up

The first one has a lot of good eat cheap and storage for bulk foods. This is stuff that people learned during the depression. How to bake bread with stored grains, how to sprout wheat to make nutritious meals with lots of vitamins.

Here's a web site someone put up that has some of his articles(thanks someone). Look very carefully at the survival food link. His articles on thermos cooking are brilliant and could save you a fortune or your life in an emergency. Thermos cooking uses boiling water, food placed in a thermos and slow cooking to use every bit of energy to cook.

https://www.survivalplus.com/

Combine thermos cooking with the site "21 DIY Rocket Stove Plans to Cook Efficiently with Wood" and you can boil water the most efficient way as quick as possible and then put in the thermos to make water safe or to cook. Most of these are made from really cheap and mostly thrown away cans. You can even use concrete blocks. With a rocket stove if there is a serious melt down you can boil water very fast when it's safe and do your cooking when the time is most appropriate for you and safest. You won't have to have fires all day to watch and masses of fuel to burn

https://morningchores.com/rocket-stove-plans/

It has always been my understanding that pemmican, rendered fat and dried powdered beef, will last for decades. Wrapped in animal hides anyways. I'm assuming that they would do the same in jars or other containers. Does anyone have absolute facts about this? The wiki link " At room temperature, pemmican can generally last from one to five years, but there are anecdotal stories of pemmican stored in cool cellars being safely consumed after a decade or more."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pemmican

Link for Pemmican ration nutritional value

https://academic.oup.com/nutritionreviews/article/3/10/314/1908394

Another forever food is hardtack. Flour, and salt baked biscuits. These have been known to last forever. There's a picture of one intact from 1862.

>>655344

>is there something far more versatile and worthwhile for SHTF

Trail mix. I just bought 30 or so lbs of it. It has nuts (fat) dried fruit (fiber / sugar) and chocolate (sugar) it's extremely energy dense. Doesn't require heat. Simple to pack and carry. I also purchased almond butter. Extremely energy dense and much better for your heart than peanut butter.

>>689232

>no one mentioned the OG or actually OS Survivalist Kurt Saxon who wrote the Anarchist Cookbook

He must've been a fed then, because that retarded book only existed to bait people and throw them in jail for 20 years

>>689288

"…that retarded book only existed to bait people and throw them in jail for 20 years…"

Please explain the mechanism for that. Was the book bugged? Maybe it was psychic and screamed out what was read in it??? Please explain.

>>689307

The author of the AC was an angsty teen (iirc 19y/o) who plagiarized a bunch of military manuals even though he had no idea what he was writing about, because he wanted to be an edgelord and give weapons information to the people on par with the government.

Turns out the revolution he was trying to support or whatever never happened, and the only people who used it were rednecks and school shooters, which he hated because he became a teacher to help troubled youth. The ironic part was in his last years of life, he wanted amazon to stop selling his book, but the publisher bought the rights for a few grand, and 20 something year old him did not forsee that.

He ended up dying regretting writing the book, and the publisher told him to STFU when he wanted them to stop publishing it. There are also plagiarized versions that are even more bastardized than the original. All of them are disregarded within the professional weapons and ordnance community.

>>689380

>who wrote the Anarchist Cookbook

You're right. I goofed. I originally said Kurt Saxon wrote the AC but it was "The Poor Man's James Bond" that he wrote and also the "Survivor" series of books.

>>655372

If you don't have subterranean temperatures low enough, then cooling your food is a potential area of interest.

Since keeping your food cool then involves as little invasion of heat as possible, then that presents you with another challenge: insulation.

Thus, finding the most element-resistant and cost-effective and thermally resistant method of insulation becomes important. Just throwing thick layers of foam around something is the most no-brainer method.

Cooling it to a desired temperature range and keeping it there will very in cost depending on how efficient it is and how well-insulated your storage is.

None of this is that difficult. You just have to balance your cost of rotating your rations at a much lower rate due to just-above-freezing temperature of storage, or rotating them more quickly if their storage temps are higher.

>>655344

hard tack. stores indefinetly with moisture absorbers.

Canned fat like lard or butter. can it yourself its cheaper

dried peanut butter with O2 absorbers

vitamins

>>689764

Oxalate.

>>687335

> there is probably 600 million people

You only think everyone's an immigrant because you are.