383b82 No.637768 [View All]
Hello /k/ ive noticed that we dont have a medic thread. So post anything relating to medical stuff here.
(pdfs, images, history, etc)
____________________________
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dd1461 No.667338
>>667319
Do you need to ask? Post it to the /a/ scanlation thread and they'd probably scanlate it.
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eee579 No.667654
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20e24a No.677097
What is actually useful if I am not a larping faggot who thinks he is going to treat other peoples gunshot wounds or have other people there to help me if I get shot?
tourniquets and compression bandages?
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957190 No.677147
>>677097
I'd say most anons probably only need something that they can use for stitches, something to sterilize shit with (say a small bottle of neutral spirits), compression bandages (or just gauze and a basic understanding of what you're doing), a small tube + stick combo or something you can use as a tourniquet, some opiates or weed if you can get your hands on them, a pair of gloves, tweezers for pulling shit out of your skin, and then just some basic bandaid shit or liquid bandage for small cuts/wounds to keep them from getting infected. In most /k/ scenarios that I can think of, infection/disease are more of a concern than bleeding out. If you have room/can ass yourself to change things out once a year, then some stuff like antihistamine tablets, fever reducers, gold bond powder, and skin rash cream are always good bets too. Same with a small flashlight/headlamp if you have extra room at the end. But yeah, a gun range first aid kit will more than likely have the same things I suggested if not significantly less. The important thing is being able to stop bleeding and stop infection.
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4d0143 No.677162
Very few have gone over the use of hasty tourniquets for combat use.
Hopefully that means enough understand the use of them.
Why not prioritze the amount of work done a casualty? 'Less we want to focus on innawoods kinda scenarios….
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f3d6d4 No.679132
Willow trees are a great source of Salicin which is the precursor to aspirin. White willows (Salix alba) are generally considered the best, but any variety will do. The bark can be broken down into small pieces and chewed, or brewed into a tea. Same with the leaves, although the bark is a much more potent and reliant source.
Cut a deep square about the size of your palm into the side of the tree and pry the bark off. There will be dark pink and pale bits of bark. You want the pale bits, this is the inner bark. Sometimes beggers can't be choosers though Let the bark dry for a day and either chew for 10 minutes before spitting out, or brew for 20 minutes and drink. One palm's worth of bark is usually enough for 1 dose.
Do not take more than one dose's worth of bark from a tree in a year. (unless you know about coppicing and taking care of trees and shit).
Do not give willow bark to children under 16 (it's rare but they might develop Reye's syndrome).
Congratulations, you now know about the best herbal medicine this side of the apocalypse. Now go out and plant a shit ton of willow trees all over so you can have a steady source of medicine in case you need it.
>>677162
I think anyone with even a modest interest in first aid knows about tourniquets.
>Why not prioritize the amount of work done a casualty?
What?
If you're asking "why not talk about what you need to do with a casualty (dead body)" then the answer is simple. Because you either burn the corpse, or bury it. Not much else to talk about.
If you're asking "why not talk more about combat medicine." The answer is also simple, unless you want to go take actual classes on the subject, basically all you need to know is "Stop the bleeding until real help arrives." There's only so much you can do without getting a degree in this stuff.
Pretty much no matter what happens the answer is "dress/pack with clean bandages, apply pressure, take to nearest hospital."
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547c2c No.679137
>>677097
>asks question
>immediately answers it
Wtf?
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547c2c No.679138
>>679132
A casualty is anyone who is not combat effective, usually due to an injury. If a soldier sprains a wrist while juggling, he is a casualty. It doesnt mean "dead" lol
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f3d6d4 No.679362
>>679138
Yes, but I assumed the ching-chong with broken english from korea didn't know that.
That's why I continued though. If someone is incapacitated due to combat injuries, odds are the damage is too serious for the average strelok to take care of. Like I said: There's only so much you can do without getting a degree in this stuff
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d4f095 No.679379
Not sure what strelok's are hoping to achieve here, but the basics to survival medicine is to plan for the most basic injuries (blisters, burns, cuts, heat stroke, sprains, diahrea, hemmroids, chaffing, etc), and to merely know the basics of how to secure a patient who's has worse than that. You can't fix a broken arm, but an intelligent anon can set a dislocated arm. You can't treat a gunshot wound, but you can apply direct pressure, and rush them to a hospital. If you honestly think you'll need to know how to extract a bullet, and save a patient all by yourself, you need to reconsider some life choices. Either become a doctor, or change your tactics that'd result in said firefight. Bullets are very lethal, and in a SHTF scenario, you need to assume any bullets coming your way will kill you and yours. Either learn how to discuss things like an adult, wait till they're all asleep and murderhobo it up, or avoid others at all costs.
In my experience, wearing a thin layer of cotton socks under thicker wool socks is the best preventative measure against blisters. The additional bonus to this, is you can wear your wools socks multiple days by changing out your undersock only. After 3 days, change your wool sock out as at that point, it'll be pretty well flattened out. There is no properly fitted boot that won't cause blisters. In a survival situation, you're gonna be doing a lot more than just marching in your boots: dragging objects, grubbing in the dirt, going over rocky and rough terrain. All of these things play hell on your foot, and your boot is designed to not flex, meaning your foot is going to slopping around inside to some degree. Really, the best advice here is just to take care of your feet. If you want to go to the next level of care, look into wilderness medicine courses. They're simple enough I'm sure you could find all the info online. That course is gonna get you by 80% of the time. The rest is gonna take a degree.
-t. wildland firefighter/EMT
why the fuck is everyone talking about torniquets and sutures? your belt is a torniquet, a cargo strap is a torniquet, tough fabric and a stick is a torniquet. If you need to use one, you can make one out of almost anything lying around. Your rifle strap, for instance. Suture? Fuck you, stop larping. Gauze, hemostat patches, direct pressure, possible torniquet depending on location, and get them to a hospital. Anything more and you're liable to kill your patient.
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332117 No.679698
>>679379
>your belt is a torniquet, a cargo strap is a torniquet, tough fabric and a stick is a torniquet.
This is absolutely wrong and they'll tell you so in any first aid instruction in the world
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d4f095 No.679702
>>679698
Feel free to keep lying all you want, but the fact remains that all those items have been used quite extensively to stop bleeding on many an amputation. That'd be like claiming no one in the world has ever died to a .22 when in fact a major number of deaths are attributed to them. Most torniquets applied out in the field aren't "proper" brandname torniquets.
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1d3c71 No.679754
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
It's over 3h long but I highly recommend it
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1e5b03 No.680540
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921f3c No.680543
>>679698
>This is absolutely wrong and they'll tell you so in any first aid instruction in the world
This is a partial lie. They tell you that a belt, cargo strap, etc. is not a tourniquet, but they also tell you that realistically that's what you're going to be using to cut off blood flow if you need a damn tourniquet.
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fafd4a No.680639
>>666003
IIRC CPR is 40% as effective as regular heartbeats though
>>677147 I would suggest the absorbant gels or whatever the hell that is so people with major injuries don't die from Air embolism. Although at that stage you're probably fucked. I suggest grabbing one penicillin derrived antibiotic, and SMZ/TMP or Levofloxacin. The former has better oral and topical application effiency, the latter is a 'oh shit hes fucked type antibiotic'.
>>680543
Do bowline knots work as well? I was taught those worked well but I might be wrong since that was 10+ years ago.
Honestly I would be more worried with the resurgence of parasites and other diseases. Viral and bacterial infections just hope you have a good immune system and meds. It's not gonna be possible short of a mirale or the kube itself blessing the injured to stop a major spine injury or perforating trauma. IF you need to stablize Cspine or some shit and move you're better off mercy killing. For bleeds you might have better luck cautrizing that shit if it's an artery. Or using some of that absorbant gel to make an airtight seal. Again. Not when you need to be moving. I wonder if plastic wrap would work…..
Extreme idiocy below:
If you extract the liquid of Artemisia annua (annual wormwood) leaves you can use it to cure malaria, flukes and fevers if done correctly. It's a meme from traditional chinse medicine, but there's actual science because it contains artemisinin. Be sure to not use water to boil it since artemisinin is fucking volatile >40 C. Traditional (eg; without machinery) extraction is written in the old text to be via compression of the leaves with force. I will say this shit tastes really fucking bitter though, also low oral absorbtion cause of the fact its not industrial grade synthesis of this shit, the low halflife and absorption of this shit. My guess is to take it three or four times a day.
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01fe43 No.683962
Does anyone have any recent physician's desk references or anything like that?
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d4a093 No.683966
>>680540
no, they are pointless. just wear on yourself more ammo for your underbarel shotgun
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1d3c71 No.684014
>>680540
I always carry triangular bandage in on of my cargo pockets. Could be used as improvised tourniquet, trauma pad, roller bandage and of course sling
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256032 No.684018
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>684014
Not to demerit your setup, but a T-shirt will do all these things, and typically you've got at least one of those available at all times.
You can cut a triangle out of your shirt, then use the rest for wrap, by following the remaining 'tab' and cutting a contour width from the missing shirt going around and up. Learned this at the aforementioned wilderness medicine course.
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2aad4a No.684633
>most countries don't actually have medics
I've always found this a bit weird in that the US has, more or less since WW2, had medics and corpsmen attached on a platoon and squad level whereas, as far as I can tell, most other countries(especially "Eastern" countries) tend to treat them like a company or battalion level resource.
Hell, a lot of countries just plain old don't have medics at all instead riflemen have to provide basic aid and then drag their comrades over to a field hospital.
>>637868
>remove a bullet
Unless the presence of the bullet in the wound presents a significant and immediate danger you don't.
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2aad4a No.684634
>>680543
>what is a tourniquet
When I went through first aid to get my driver's license they taught us how to make a tourniquet out of a plank or a stick and a shirt to use on fractures.
To quote "if you don't have a proper trauma kit, and if you're intervening after a car crash you almost certainly won't, you use whatever you have available".
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d4f095 No.684635
>>684634
You just described a splint, anon.
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713ee8 No.684638
>>684635
No he described a tourniquet. You take a rope or piece of fabric and tie it upstream of the wound with a standard knot. Make a second standard knot. Push a tick or pen or flashlight or something else long and solid in between the rope and the limb. Twist. Keep twisting until the bloodflow stops.
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d4f095 No.684644
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>684638
>A plank or a stick and a shirt to use on fractures
No, he just described a fucking splint. you don't torniquet a fractured limb. You splint with a flat board a fucking fractured limb.
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ec1d20 No.684671
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9ddfa8 No.684678
>>684671
>>667319
I second that
Also I seen people say, "Under no circumstances without medical training, do not attempt field doctor" but If I got shot somewhere on my body, can I just try my last 5 minutes of my life trying to close the wound and then go to a doctor? I think that's better than doing nothing and die.
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c036e4 No.684717
>>684644
What he is describing is this.
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30e38e No.684724
>>684717
>>684644
Ye olde fashioned windlass has always been a solid performer. In fact, when they talk about people losing limbs to restricted bloodflow, they often mean the good old fashioned big stick and windlass. There was a video of a cartel killing where they used a windlass and kept twisting and tightening till it took his fucking head off. What a man can do with a stick and a rope or strong cloth can be amazing.
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713ee8 No.684786
>>684644
You are fucking retarded.
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3b9921 No.684830
Haven't been on this board in a while. Like what I see. Good stuff.
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d4f095 No.684857
>>684717
>>684786
And that's still an incorrect use of tools, for the wrong situation. You DO NOT fucking tourniquet a fracture. I'm a fucking EMT, so feel free to explain to me how I'm wrong here.
Bunch of fucking larpers amputating people over non-threatening injuries.
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713ee8 No.684861
>>684857
>I'm a fucking EMT
Nigger where? I doubt you're a high school graduate.
ANYONE can click through the thread of comments up and up and up and no one is mentioning fractures, it's all a discussion of tourniquets. You jumped in with a shitty complaint without reading or really comprehending what people were talking about, no one mentioned fractures.
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256032 No.684864
>>684861
>>684634
>When I went through first aid to get my driver's license they taught us how to make a tourniquet out of a plank or a stick and a shirt to use on fractures.
>how to make a tourniquet out of a plank or a stick and a shirt to use on fractures.
>make a tourniquet
>use on fractures
>ANYONE can click through the thread of comments
>without reading or really comprehending what people were talking about
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713ee8 No.684879
>>684864
English isn't his first language retard, make allowances because you clearly haven't mastered one language yet.
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256032 No.684900
>>684857
>no one is mentioning fractures
>>684634
>fractures
>>684879
>English isn't his first language retard, make allowances
>>684861
>no one is mentioning fractures
>You jumped in with a shitty complaint
>without reading or really comprehending what people were talking about
>you clearly haven't mastered one language yet
>I doubt you're a high school graduate
>Nigger
Loved how it was my fault you can't read because someone else doesn't understand english well enough to be talking medical terminology in a thread about how to tend wounds - and offering advice that'd further injure someone. Assuming it was just a hiccup of learning two languages, and not someone telling you to tourniquet a fractured arm.
>You are fucking retarded.
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713ee8 No.684925
>>684900
Literally entire thread is about tourniquets, you bleeding moron.
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ab2d8f No.684934
Years ago, there were many companies working on inventing medical glue for open wounds. What's the status now? Are any on the market?
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256032 No.684936
>>684925
>Literally
Literally isn't entirely about tourniquets, ya faggoty leaf. The entire reply chain might have been about tourniquets, but the original post you attacked pertained to calling out someone using one wrongly, then telling them what the correct tool would be, which coincidentally could be scabbed together with the very same tools they listed. I'm eagerly awaiting the day you leaf faggots go so far off the social justice warrior deep end, you lose your access to the internet (because illegal cyberbullying takes place there).
ESL has no fucking place teaching people first aid. The fact said information is coming from a goddamn driving course only furthers how useless this information is.
>>684934
You mean super glue? Yea, it works fucking swimmingly at sealing wounds. Issue was it wasn't sterile. It's since been improved upon by multiple other companies. NuSkin comes to mind immediately, but I recall there being better alternatives in hospitals, mostly in the bandages. They have bandaids out now the size of common gauze pads that accelerate healing by adding helpful bacteria to the pad with keratin. I'd guess by this point it would be easy enough to get your hands on it for private use.
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713ee8 No.685003
>>684936
I didn't attack anything, I pointed out what he was talking about and what he MEANT. You decided to be an anal retentive fuck and pretend like you're better than everyone by showing how much you know, protip: this is /k/ everyone here is superior to a fucking EMT driver in emergency medical knowledge you faggot.
lol @ pretending americans didn't fucking invent social justice after taking in the frankfurt school kikes after WWII literally invented counterculture - the destruction of white culture
He was talking about tourniquets, period.
>superglue
>not sterile
lol retard shows his ignorance again. Superglue is melted acrylic, when it solidifies it releases a lot of heat and outgasses solvents, and when its completely solid it is basically a chunk of acrylic. Nothing could be more sterile except maybe glass itself.
The reason it's been improved for wound use is to lower the heat and outgassing to below damaging levels for the skin.
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4d9316 No.685038
>>685003
Now EMT driver bro, are there any reasons to outright avoid regular superglue for sealing up wounds innawoods? I know not to use it by itself and for wide cuts. But is the outgassing and heat enough to do serious damage or is it more of a scaring issue?
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30e38e No.685044
Superglue friends, may I gently remind people that wounds like to breathe and at some point over sealing them creates problems? Proper dressings allow air, this is on purpose. Butterfly and stitch allow the wound to breathe and act more naturally. As Canuckistani poster >>685003 points out, you are basically sealing the wound in acrylic. Why don't you pour acrylic or heavy wax on your body, or any plastic or heavy dose of sealing compound that is hard to remove, tell me about the experience.
Dressings are easily removed for wound cleaning and maintenance, easily replaced. Staples, stitch, butterfly all allow the wound to be observed and monitored, cleaned. Now, try to deal with a giant blob of plastic over the top of a wound, how do you remove such a hard and attached to the skin thing? When you want to get rid of it it is suddenly a problem, solvents are going to be dangerous and agitate the skin. It is a pain in the ass to remove, and medical dressings need that. Get back to the field hospital, or a big hospital now the surgeon or physician is going to be dealing with another problem on top of the wound, literally.
Potentially poisoning, you are applying it directly to an open wound. Pour solvent on it to remove it later you potentially poison yet again.
Lots of things to consider, and why old methods are still sometimes the very best.
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921f3c No.685059
>>684934
It's called superglue. Or just liquid bandage.
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921f3c No.685060
>>685038
No him, but you could use it innawoods. I'd still suggest just getting a small bottle of liquid bandage. They sell half-ounce bottles that you could store in a side pocket or satchel or something that's like the size of your thumb.
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713ee8 No.685150
>>685038
The reason why superglue is good is because it works fast and it's more or less sterile. This makes it good for emergency dressings.
But yes, it will leave massive scarring and the wound won't heal right until you go to a hospital and have a doctor re-open and stitch it correctly.
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256032 No.685161
>>685038
Honestly, there isn't such issues with offgassing or scarring, the leaf is a fucking imbecile and knows literally nothing. The main issue with superglue is most injuries need to be disinfected, and usually for bigger ones, need to be cleaned out somewhat regularly (which your body naturally does, so it's not needed to reopen and reclean unless it becomes infected). As >>685044 points out, superglueing a wound means you can't reaccess it without removing the glue. You're also blocking the surrounding area from receiving oxygen, which will cause the surrounding area to die, and is a great way to promote bacterial growth ie: isn't very sterile.
What I recommend to anyone who plans on backpacking or going innawoods, is to get a small botte of providone iodine, and keep it in a medical pack. iodine can be used to disinfect when diluted in clean clear water, can be used for dressing wounds, as it's a germicide in a 10% concentration, and can be used to purify drinking water (one drop per quart of clear water, 10 drops for cloudy water according to my bottle).
Pair the iodine up with a small syringe to flush any deep wounds out with. You'll have to flush it multiple times to ensure it's been properly disinfected, and make sure you check the wound cavity for any foreign objects and remove them with tweezers. Most of the time a bandaid or gauze pad is recommended for cuts. Superglue really only shines when your cut is smaller, and in an area without much flexion. It's handy, but really only in a way that allows you to save your better first aid supplies for more serious injuries. It also peels off easy enough in a few hours after applying, so it's not like it's necessarily hard to remove once it's on.
Stitching is pretty easy to learn, and something I recommend if you plan on being a woodsman. Fishing line and a needle take up no space, and can be used for multiple things. Just make sure you disinfect them first if doing sutures.
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e8dccf No.686138
>>680639
>IIRC CPR is 40% as effective as regular heartbeats though
I don't know about exact numbers, but if the choice is between 40% and 0%, I know which one most people would prefer. CPR doesn't fix anything, it just prevents damage until you can zap them.
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72b1fd No.689088
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fb7419 No.689099
I am deeply concerned with the information in this thread
this shit is just straight up wrong.
Medical care is given IN CONTEXT, there is no single procedure for an injury
For example if someone comes in with an infected cut.
A. Assess the patients general state, is what they tell you going to be reliable?
B. Is this the only injury? fucking ask. If the answer to A is "no" you may have to manually asses the casualty for secondary injury, this is why doctors are always doing blood pressure checks etc.
Casualties may and often do have injuries unrelated to the one they are seeking treatment for which may also be significant or complicate primary care.
C. how best to approach treatment?
Often the answer is "take them somewhere else where it can be done better".
So you took out a bullet out in the field, where is the patient going to recover where treatment is still available if there are complications?
D. search for other casualties. Don't send one casualty to hospital and have a second casualty appear.
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d55fe7 No.689109
>>686138
This. CPR is a stop gap measure because people start dying very quickly if they don't have oxygen to the brain. Just keep in mind that if you have to start pumping, you'll probably have to manually fill their lungs. They make special disposable masks for this that are dirt cheap, and you're going to want one when the vomiting occurs.
The vomiting ALWAYS occurs. Be prepared for cracking/breaking rib sounds as well.
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