/hikki/ - Hikikomori

Does anyone here live like this willingly? I think everyone on this board probably hates themselves and wishes they were not so anti-social. This isn't a path that we've chosen. I agree this has a lot to do with a lack of social opportunity. I know for me i grew up more and more noticing that i didn't feel like i had a place anywhere. I think a major contribute is that people get psychologically ruined during middle/high school where they're rejected and forgotten about. I could be totally wrong here, but my experience was noticing this and pulling out more and more until i realized that nobody cared. I dropped out my junior year of HS, the two weeks prior to not going again i did nothing. I just sat in class and drew or listened to music, i didn't eat lunch. I prayed that someone would notice, nobody did. My parents didn't even care when they realized i wasn't going to school. I imagine most hikkis have a similar story and have a complex of inferiority and thinking that it just doesn't matter what they do so why do anything.

I don't think hikki and MGTOW have anything to do with one another. I don't know a ton about the actual MGTOW scene but they seem to just be the typical normalfag who latches onto a subreddit ideology and lives a relatively normal life besides that. It also seems to be really pathetic that there's a whole community of people reassuring each other in their self-aware bugman lifestyles. Which is probably why they try and connect with hikki. This guy is ascribing natural consequence to the phenomena and using it to further justify his own lifestyle choices.

>>1233

>Does anyone here live like this willingly?

No were all just victims of circumstance.

>I think everyone on this board probably hates themselves and wishes they were not so anti-social. This isn't a path that we've chosen

I know this feel all too well.

>I grew up more and more noticing that i didn't feel like i had a place anywhere. I think a major contribute is that people get psychologically ruined during middle/high school where they're rejected and forgotten about. I could be totally wrong here, but my experience was noticing this and pulling out more and more until i realized that nobody cared.

The teenage years are the most sensitive years in terms of early human development things like bullying rejection by your peers and even your own family can cause someone at that very young adolescent stage of their life to have a mental breakdown which ether leads to suicide drug and alcohol addiction or social withdrawal/hikikomori being away from society as a whole hikikomoriism is caused by problems in early human development and that is one of the reasons why we suffer so much.

>I don't think hikki and MGTOW have anything to do with one another.

Agreed i saw another video by Unrested that normalfag Youtuber who lives in Japan who made 2 documentaries on us he has another video where he talks about how sometimes he gets messages from people saying their a hikikomori because all they do is go to work and don't socialize while out at work and then go home which we all know is NOT hikikomori that's just an introvert most hikkis are introverts yes but their is a huge difference between staying indoors almost 24/7 and living your life and just going your own way but at the same time being shy being shy and having really bad anxiety are not the same thing obviously.

>They seem to just be the typical normalfag who latches onto a subreddit ideology and lives a relatively normal life

Agreed.

>>1235

> i saw another video by Unrested that normalfag Youtuber who lives in Japan who made 2 documentaries on us he has another video where he talks about how sometimes he gets messages from people saying their a hikikomori because all they do is go to work and don't socialize while out at work and then go home which we all know is NOT hikikomori

This video.

The thing about 'movements' is that they're rooted within whatever society they're happening in. Any movement that claims it has ANYTHING to do with hikikomori is just using the demographic as a scapegoat to further an agenda. I say this because hikikomori are the last people to interact with, and thus be affected by society as a whole.

Think about it, how does any of this make a scrap of difference to hikikomori? Regardless if some part of it resonates with you as an individual or on an idealogical level, none of it actually affects you until you're no longer a hikikomori and thus are able to participate in society again. However nobody CHOOSES to become a hikikomori, instead it's a series of events, circumstances and choices that will eventually turn you into one. If you do not choose to become a hikikomori, then recovering from becoming a hikikomori is equally not a choice, rather it's tackling a whole range of other problems that will eventually result in you being able to participate in life again. Leaving aside the obvious fact that overcoming all of those problems is rediculously difficult (thus the reason that we are hikikomori in the first place) the truth remains that until those problems are solved you won't be participating in society.

Knowing all of this it should be obvious that no 'movement' will ever matter to hikikomori in a meaningful way letalone be something that they as a demographic belong to, because the most basic prerequisite is being part of the society to which the movement belongs. I'm not saying that you cannot care about those movements, I know that we're all individuals with our own hopes, dreams and morals. However to become a part of those movements requires you to participate in society on a level that hikikomori simply cannot function on.

Considering this person cannot even pronounce hikikomori remotely accurately even within tolerance of western pronunciations and accents, leads me to believe that they didn't even bother to research what a hikikomori is beyond a 2-3 line summary. Armed with this gross oversimplification and a truckload of assumptions, they then went ahead and started talking nonsense that supported their own theory disregarding everything else along the way.

>>1237

>The thing about 'movements' is that they're rooted within whatever society they're happening in. Any movement that claims it has ANYTHING to do with hikikomori is just using the demographic as a scapegoat to further an agenda. I say this because hikikomori are the last people to interact with, and thus be affected by society as a whole.

This

>Knowing all of this it should be obvious that no 'movement' will ever matter to hikikomori in a meaningful way letalone be something that they as a demographic belong to, because the most basic prerequisite is being part of the society to which the movement belongs. I'm not saying that you cannot care about those movements, I know that we're all individuals with our own hopes, dreams and morals. However to become a part of those movements requires you to participate in society on a level that hikikomori simply cannot function on.

Exactly back in 2015 i tried doing some activist work on the streets just because i was looking for an excuse to get out of my room at the time but that didn't last long at all because my anxiety got the better of me and i went right back to being a hikki every time i tried to get out of this lifestyle people always treated me like shit whenever i tried going back into society and that is why now i have given up completely.

>Considering this person cannot even pronounce hikikomori remotely accurately even within tolerance of western pronunciations and accents, leads me to believe that they didn't even bother to research what a hikikomori is beyond a 2-3 line summary. Armed with this gross oversimplification and a truckload of assumptions, they then went ahead and started talking nonsense that supported their own theory disregarding everything else along the way

Well than that tells you their full of shit.

>>1228

It doesn't really have anything to do with hikkikomoris, aside from the fact that most hikkis are male and naturally living the MGTOW lifestyle (because if you can't go out, you can't try to please women)

>>1250

>It doesn't really have anything to do with hikkikomoris, aside from the fact that most hikkis are male and naturally living the MGTOW lifestyle (because if you can't go out, you can't try to please women)

I suppose but it's like what >>1237 said nobody chooses to become a hikikomori.

>>1228

i used to be in mgtow fb group but they are just sex-havers who baww about slutness of girls

>>1258

>i used to be in mgtow fb group but they are just sex-havers who baww about slutness of girls

So their like the cyborgs on /r9k/??.

>>1264

i dont have much knowledge about r9k, im not english native speaker

I think you got the wrong idea, I've been a hikki my whole life, and for me it's about abuse and trauma. A person drifts in and out of "the life" depending on how abusive ones environment is at any particular time. For me something happens that triggers "people avoidance". Over the years I've developed a mental martial art to defend myself against the sociopaths, these are the people that will seriously try to hurt you, because they are predators. Ordinary normies are nothing by comparison and easier to deal with. You simply tell them what they want they want to hear, what they expect to hear. After two or three sentences you know what they are all about. They live in a bubble a dream a fairytale; just give them more of the same, be a good actor and pretend, and you're in. At least long enough to earn a chunk of money and back to isolation. If I had a better passive income I would be the invisible man. I'm fine when alone, get with a group of humans and the trouble begins, they push their drama and games on you. I can't be lied to anymore, this skill is essential for a quiet and peaceful life. I'll stop before this becomes a book. I just wanted to drop some links about MGTOW so you can go to the source and better understand it. The men are angry at the women for what they've done to them; the women defended themselves against the men, and sometimes worse.

I think that basic humans deserve whatever they get mainly because they are too stupid to talk to. But in all fairness it takes a long time to make a human smart, and we learn by making mistakes. That's my humor about it, you have to find a way to laugh about what seems so serious; life is to short to be sad for one minute. Life is bitter sweet and often dark, just decide to be happy no matter what happens. Happiness is a frame of mind, and the greatest gift that one can realize……take care.

https://www.mgtow.com/

https://www.mgtow.com/forums/

Men

>>1275

Dealing with sociopaths is horrible.

>>1284

>Dealing with sociopaths is horrible.

I know right.

>>1237

>>1252

>>1275

Probably helps to understand the origin, foggy as it may be nowadays with so many claiming to be the first. Started after a radical pro-womyn swerve in Toronto politics back in the 60s (and also the first feminist/Christian partnership) to 'reform' divorce laws. Basically both of them thought it should always favour womyn and especially in child custody cases. (The Christian groups because of that 'chivalric' weaker/fairer sense BS)

Many of the older ones were homeless and had lost visitation rights, either through lies or from social (justice) workers intentionally misrepresenting evidence (even if the wife herself said he didn't do anything and should see the kids)

So in a way it originally was, and only in the late 90s was it now a 'statement' or choice. I feel like the video maker is either one of the new stripe or has been around "the manosphere" too long and adapted some things from it.

Used to know some of the founders (both the online, like Solarion, and offline like Randall Shake) through a tabletop modeling club. They were more PTSD afflicted "elegan/tg/entlemen" than cyborgs or fedora tippers. It was both a movement and an escape, and appealed to the cabin dwelling hillbilly equivalent to hikkis. None of these /fit/ woman hunting Chad types, but burly rugged isolated mountain men.

So in its inception it does have similar traits (pushing society away due to the actions of others and only reappearing when it tries to ban your forms of entertainment) but he focused way too much on 'selling' the movement portion and not its origins. The two largest groups remain invite-only so you could maybe throw a wizard-chan comparison as well in there. (Also unfortunately similar, there was the occasional "sudden disappearance" of a poster, all the more noticeable because it was a forum)

It was really more of an 'alternative' instead of a movement. An alternative to putting a gun to your head after learning you wouldn't see your kids again. Even if the old nag had been caught actually prostituting them. I know that AA doesn't work, but for comparison's sake you could also say it was AA for divorcees, the 'alcohol' being women.

Oddly….I think it was when they started accepting mexicans that it started changing (lol build that wall!) While white and black men would be legitimately cut off, I recall looking back they were obsessive about women. Instead of taking the zen Buddhist approach to ignoring women and shutting them out of life and activities, they posted about nothing but negative daily experiences with women, or showed "get outraged, maggots!" style sharticles about feminist celeb robot #68 endorsing misandrist act #92 to get lots of angry macho discussion flowing.

Yeah, I definitely think it was the Latinos that led to the modern "Red Pill/manosphere" merger. They used to really hate those guys for "enabling" women's misbehaviour by responding.

*cough* anyway I just wanted to clear up, conceptually there are real similarities, but not within this 2.0 Voice For Men version he's shilling.

I just read the wiki about the Herbivore men of Japan. The shift in consciousness is interesting in that the people realize that there is no purpose or meaning in the old paradigm. In other words the old story (the concept) is gone. The failed financial system and cultural society, coupled with the speed of information sharing has made everyone on the planet very aware of what actually works and what doesn't anymore. No one wants to waste their time, effort, money on a failed story. Everything is so complicated now compared to 40 or even 30 years ago that you can hardly fix anything anymore. The push for total automation has ruined the lives of the average human just trying to make a living. Only the high tier specialists can find a job that you can actually live from. I see computer analyst and manager positions listed in the corporations, with a salary that can support a family, everything else below that level won't meet the cost of living. As a result many people have said: "I've never been so happy since I gave up." They cut back and simplify as much as possible, paring down to the bare essentials. This is why I say to everyone here that you are not at fault for something beyond your control. Shame, guilt, failure and that list of words is the vocabulary of people who are still confused about what has actually happened. Forty years ago almost everyone here would be fully employed, and 100 years ago everyone would have something to do within a family structure to feel productive, I'm sure of this. Why because my Grandparents were born in the 1800'dreds, I'm 63 this year and can look back to a kinder gentler time, where people could still afford to still be a human.

Take care

Should read: where people could still afford to be a human.

>>1233

I had a chat with someone online and mentioned about how congregation with people is bad. I realized this a whole much when that was said. It's movements, clubs, organization, etc. It's nothing more than people trying to come together and trying to accomplish something, to somehow make a "real" difference for some reason.

I kinda had a similar experience from middle/high school. I've moved a few times around the state I grew up and live in. Friends come and go, especially acquaintances. People you know. Poof, gone. They move on to other people they deemed appealing to them somehow. It's one of those typical human behavior and it's one of those inevitable things being a damn human being.

>It also seems to be really pathetic that there's a whole community of people reassuring each other in their self-aware bugman lifestyles.

Oh please. Reassurance is just another word for comforting other people to no end and to no end for sure because no one is going no where with fucking reassurances. People need criticism. Whether they like it or not. It's a way for them to learn themselves and others more. If people keep up with this "Disney" bullshit act, treating each other so special then you end up with a fucking "safe space" or like that, another movement.

>>1237

This anon know what's up.

You have to consider that it's not just these things that lead to another and make you think it's because of that. The problem, like I said, are people. Not just the labels we labled: normalfags, sociopaths, hikis, etc. We're the fucking problem. 63 year old anon is right. Back then, it really was simpler at the time. I could say much about the 80's and more on the 90's. Nowadays is just so different. Really, really different. It's more like history is being shackled, not being shaped into a better future anymore. Innovation is lost, there is a lack of consideration, real interaction is no longer a thing, and we're all too focused on little things that shouldn't even matter. It fucking sucks.

>>1422

>Back then, it really was simpler at the time. I could say much about the 80's and more on the 90's. Nowadays is just so different. Really, really different. It's more like history is being shackled, not being shaped into a better future anymore. Innovation is lost, there is a lack of consideration, real interaction is no longer a thing, and we're all too focused on little things that shouldn't even matter. It fucking sucks.

I completely agree.

An Interview with a Japanese Herbivore Man

>>1418

63 here thanks for the kind words; I was going to check out of this nut house about ten years ago. But every time I face death the brain figures out a solution and things get a little better. It's only temporary though, all you can really count on is change, tomorrow will be different. You guys are smart and pretty much on top of things. I'm going to try not to talk about politics, religion, or women except to say that along time ago I made a decision to remain 11.5 years old. Before the testosterone kicks in and the trouble starts. I just did the opposite of what everyone else fucked up their lives with and it worked out pretty good. I want to avoid dwelling on the negative but I have to add a clip to the collection to address another issue. Namely: the carrying capacity of the earth has been exceeded. Some time within the next 20 years the shit will really hit the fan, I'm hoping that I'm compost by then, take care friends.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkPBam3qO34

Meathooked & End of Water

———————————————————————-

I'll leave you with something that has always helped me. :)

“There is something to be learned from a rainstorm. When meeting with a sudden shower, you try not to get wet and run quickly along the road. But doing such things as passing under the eaves of houses, you still get wet. When you are resolved from the beginning, you will not be perplexed, though you will still get the same soaking. This understanding extends to everything.”

― Tsunetomo Yamamoto, The Hagakure: A code to the way of samurai

>>1447

Damn i can really relate to this. My ability to speak around people has degraded so much, my writing too. I used to be an excellent writer, fiction or not. Now i can't into writing beyond posting on forums. The last time i wrote a story it was in green-text format and was autismo garbage. Then even writing here i often reply to something and realize after the fact that i left out qualifying words or double-typed a word, all kinds of shit like that, it kills me.

Maybe other anon has had his writing degraded over the years but just more so.

>>1446

I took that as: "people tend to congregate in a futile attempt to give 'meaning' to the social order that we all take for granted in everyday life"

It's not an abstract thought at all. Most if not all social interaction is merely an act to make sure that everyone else is playing out their parts in the grand scheme of human society. Think of it like a simple probe to check for danger. Person A tells a shitty joke, they expect person B to either laugh or call it shit. If person B doesn't react at all then the unexpected outcome causes an immediate sense of danger due to an 'abnormal' reaction. At this point the probing continues to ascertain why the reaction was different. Continue the process for another few hundred steps and if they still can't rectify the abnormality then you end up with them distancing themselves from you for safety reasons. The fact of the matter is that people are very untrusting (rightly so) because other humans are, quite frankly, fucking dangerous. It's also why it's so hard to have short and meaningful conversation as such an act requires letting your guard down completely which is not something people are willing to do on a whim.

You're right about their sentence structure though, it wasn't something I'd noticed at the time due to how I read things in general.

>>1424

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_ehH20Nv_A

Tao, the way (it used to be).

many mgtows have checked out from society but are certainly NOT hikikomori, hikikomori's are checked out in a different way…. permanently checked in.

Conflating the two is like confusing a sword and a blunt butter knife. Yes they are vaguely similar, but they are significantly different.

>>2531

Exactly

>>2531

i was in fb mgtow group and it seems most of them are just men after failure in relationship yet they are still trying

>>1228

Hikis, herbivores, mgtows, fish ladies (or how they are called in japan) are all parts of the same phenomenon: People who are intelligent enough to realize how shitty the world and life are, are opting out of life and society. Using drugs and multimedia to escape from the uncomfortable modern life. Japan has record numbers of people in their fertile years who are not interested in starting families (males and females).

The trend will continue and japan is leading the race to the bottom.