/fringe/ - Fringe

>>77933

WWA is pretty good in the way that he tells you the fundamentals of everything. Though most newer folk wont get what he's saying or even care. It's still good for planting seeds, for example the Kybalion is a key book for everyone. The rest of his stuff is good as well but only once you've had the experience or are at a level where you can.

Bardon is not easy to understand why it's important but his stuff fundamentally is good once you (again) are at the level to get it. Robert bruce is a good start for energy work and Montalk is alright again for theory.

Ultimately I figure it don't matter what you read as long as you're keeping yourself within the frequency. At least do the exercises if you are going to read something though. Other wise find a more comfortable learning format like lectures/talks/videos. Unless of course you like books and read them as a kid.

If we're going to be real, most books and especially occult books are either written by people who don't know what they're talking about or are poor of quality so it's difficult to recommend more. Though if I had to recommend something that gives quite a decent bit of perspective and exercises check out Kundalini Yoga by Sri Swami Sivananda. We just need things which keep the neophytes out of getting ungrounded and delusional. Things which allow them to learn their bodies and mind (consciousness as well). To understand there is nothing beyond them. Other than the study of nature (oneself) everything else is generally just a cultural or flavored covering of the same thing. So the books work well to get people started until they find their preferable cultural flavour of exercises.

I thought the montalk articles were very helpful as a beginner. The Atkinson books were great, but I would take off psychomancy and maybe mental influence because most of that is just fluff with about 2 pages of actual, practice-able advice.

I would maybe put Personal Power before the 2013SeriesLessons and I might add Magical Use of Thoughtforms to that list.

>>77933

I would add Astral Dynamics to the Robert Bruce section. It gave me a very straightforward and systematic approach to astral projection that was easy to adapt to my belief system. While I understand that many people learn in different ways, and such a discrete method for astral projection might not fit every person's learning style, it's step-by-step nature can lead to success for anyone; as long as they put forth a sufficient amount of effort. I believe that every neophyte should learn to astral project, and this book offers them the best chance at doing so.

I kinda hope that the Kybalion was written by the three initiates of Hermes and not Atkinson. Makes it seem more mystical.

Though a lot of people don't think so.

>>77933

I'm still reading through this fucking book list.

I skipped 7-9 I'm currently practicing IIH, just want some practice so I don't get bored with it.

I have 7-9 though, I'll get to them later.

1-7 at least are just text books, no practice.

>>78145

>science of breath

>psychomancy

>mental influence

>"textbooks" with "no practice"

>>78162

This.

Atkinson is garbage-tier.

Did you even read them? The arcane formulas are all practices. When someone is new they need to understand the whys before actually doing it. If I started by jumping right into practical stuff, I would not be able to suspend my doubts and wouldn't succeed.

I recommend:

-The secret of the Ages

-The law and the promise

>>78167

I wouldn't say he is garbage, I think he has good understanding of how things work just that his exercises aren't as effective as they could be.

That and I feel his writing style is dry and can't really keep his readers attention at points.

>>78162

>claims there are superior writings

>doesn't post them

ATKINSON HURT

>>78283

I really don't get the atkinson asshurt, I felt like I got a lot out of the kybalion and arcane teachings. He can rattle on a bit, but he's usually just trying to present the idea in multiple in multiple lights.

I gotta say though I am a little skeptical of his books under his Yogi pen names, him probably not being an actual yogi and all.

>>78092

👌

Only a plebeian from the galaxy doofus would discard "Science of Breath" and neglect learning how to breathe.

The Kybalion nails the forces of nature from a philosophic standpoint. Very good read to better understand what all laws all things abide to, integrated with with daily thought you'll come to know or learn by yourself at profound levels.

>Montalk

Good things.

>astral dynamics/Robert Bruce

Great stuff.

>initiation into hermetics

Good things but stern and outdated, thorough but lacking. Great if you like a scheduled man's life.

>>77933

You know what this is a solid list of books, but we should tailor it a little.

I recommend adding "Science of Miracles", as it's approach is curious disbelief, dealing with the main power of artists and also a very potent form of psychology to be utilized on self. Higher and lower selves.

I would also vouch for Uncle Chuckies Psionics book, and crazy as it may be, the gear and gadgets he plays with.

There's also a book I have in mind, it's about proper behaviour, being curt and sociable - most important what mindset to have to achieve, it's highly esoteric and positive even though it's writer might not have intended or known. [Spoiler] it's a how to meet women book [/spoiler]

Lastly, there are documentaries of history on YouTube regarding ancient history, religion & monuments that should be viewed as they can't be read.

Among them, "The Revelations Of the Pyramids", and from a mathematical approach on the coordinates of megalithic ancient structures, "Carl Munck - The Code".

>>78350

>11. The Universal Master Key

>Reader beware if you deal with people a lot. Still an excellent book.

What do you mean by this?

>>78351

In part, if a person seeks to live in a more beneficent manner, there are those who they may come across who will attempt to sink them to the lowest common denominator. It gives a good feeling of the elements and how Bardon felt about them to read the Universal Master Key.

I know I have suggested the kybalion to many, but how the fuck do you expect the average person nowadays to get anything but confusion from it?

Let's make sure they have a proper dictionary first, and instruct them to read the definition of every single word that is in capital letters. Further, to read the definitions of every word in any sentence that is confusing to them.

To prop up my argument here, Language is as unknowable as the all.

Watkinson and Montalk are meme garbage tier.

Why don't you WWA and Montalk's butthurts don't just recommend some other material instead of just calling it shit?

>>78350

Thank you!

Have any supplemental reading?

>>78315

>There's also a book I have in mind, it's about proper behaviour, being curt and sociable - most important what mindset to have to achieve, it's highly esoteric and positive even though it's writer might not have intended or known. [Spoiler] it's a how to meet women book [/spoiler]

Okay, y'got me. I'll bite. What's the book in question?

beelzebub's tales to his grandson

>>78902

>>78904

well, what do you two like to read then?

Bump, this is an important topic

I'm a neophyte of a couple months, so I have barely any practical experience (in relation to these books, anyway), but so far I've read the first 7 Atkinson books in that list, a little bit of Initiation into Hermetics, a little bit of Robert Bruce's Mastering Astral Projection, and a little bit of Magical Use of Thought Forms.

The WWA books, other than Psychomancy, were very helpful, practical, and easy to understand. Psychomancy seemed to have little practical information that wasn't in his other books. It was short, though, and there were some new concepts.

Initiation into Hermetics seems kinda dense. I've read everything up to the practical bit, about the elements, and I get some of it, but there's so much brand new information I don't really understand about magnetic and electric fluid and how the elements relate to each other, etc. Maybe there's a book that explains it all a little more plainly that could go before it. Or maybe it's just me.

Mastering Astral Projection is quite a handy book. I haven't read Energy Work, but a friend has taught me a bunch about energy bodies already. I think a book directly about AP might be a good addition to the list for people who like practical things. The version of MAP in the Mega has a few pages missing, though.

I don't think I've read enough of Magical Use of Thoughtforms to give an opinion, but it seems like it'll be pretty good.

>>78315

>I would also vouch for Uncle Chuckies Psionics book, and crazy as it may be, the gear and gadgets he plays with.

AHAHA Uncle Chuckie has a lot of hilarious shit. It didn't help me that much since it kind of requires a lot of prerequisite skill, but it's absolutely great to wonder about all the possibilities that can happen with a high enough skill

>>78926

I think he's talking about the game, or some book regarding pick up artists, people who's only goal is to pick up girls. pretty retarded but yea it really breaks down social cues and other stuff really good. great for autists or anyone who wants to understand how socializing works

Can you recommend some good books on astrology and planetary symbolism?

>>82661

That's definitely intending to be positive though, didn't sound like what the tipp dude was talking about

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wFm4rZbNhw

in response to

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHkiZNT3cyE&feature=youtu.be

this is a good topic. talk about it.

>>77933

Is there a place where one can find all of them as pdf's?

Are there books for stages above neophytes?

t. newfig

>>82731

You fucking mongoloid read the goddamn board before asking stupid questions

>>82743

kek

>>77937

If Atkinson is so great why does he contradict himself so much? How in the fuck am I supposed to learn from that?

>>83705

How does he contradict himself?

>>83707

Bump for this

>>86958

>those James Joyce books

How are they greenpills?

>>78187

He's one of those writers that takes multiple pages to say something that could be summed up in one sentence. I hate him as a writer to be honest.

Arcana of Freemasonry by Albert Churchward

Signs & Symbols of Primordial Man by Albert Churchward

In terms of Churchward being 'correct' I do not know, although, I find his findings quite interest. Such as, the neophyte goes left foot first into the temple of the initiations. (That's just one thing I found interesting, many more)

Ego and Archetype by Edward F. Edinger( Analytical/ Jungian psychology, very good read for dreams highly valued personally)

Pistis Sophia 2nd edition, translated from German text, which is in turn translated fom Coptic. By G.R.S Mead

Transcendental Magic It's Doctrine and Ritual by Eliphas Levi (It may not be entirely correct, A.E Waite is there with notes to guide though… partially)

The Christian Archetype, By Edward. F Edinger

The Hermetic Tradition by Julius Evola

Most of the holy books in relation to Kabbalah, such as Zohar, Yetzirah, etc. (I have really as of yet to find a good translation)

Varieties of Religious Experience by William James

(Great book to go along with Perennial Philosophy by Aldous Huxley but thats already on there)

thats just a few ill think of more eventually

>>86960

This

>>77933

Working through the 2013 series. 2400 pages is a lot to chew through

How many of you have actually read through it all?

Also, why does smileberg say 2013 series is superior to the 2014 one?

The Kybalion is ludibrium.

-The Kybalion

The Cabala Mineralis tbh fam.

not that of the vulgar is code for mental alchemy

>levity.com/alchemy/cab_min1.html

also, PSIPOG might have been a bunch of fruity namefaggots, but they did flesh out an almost 'assembly-level' model for energetic phenomena

>>88512

Formatting. Look at how much of the text is fucked up in 2014 as opposed to the 2013 edition.

>>86958

Question about The Secret Doctrine, is it true that book was connected with first wave feminist spirituality?

Im looking for something with a lot of practical advise, what would you recommend?

Downloaded a torrent pack of Hermeticism books. Started Intro to Hermeticism by Franz Bardon but I'm working through theory slowly to ensure I have a good basis of understanding and intent(on part 9 Man and the body). There's another book about the white magicians deities. Popular media has given me a respectable caution to making pacts with deities. How far can I develop on my own?

>>78897

>Let's make sure they have a proper dictionary first, and instruct them to read the definition of every single word that is in capital letters.

Excellent advice. I noticed this halfway through theory

>>97080

>How far can I develop on my own?

You will only develop on your own. So only as far as you have the discipline to maintain. Inertia keeps most from making progress.

>>97084

I'm confused as to why one would want to make a pact with a other dimensional being then

>>97086

power without work I suppose, those people are just consumed with ego

>>78350

Are you really a magus? Any miracles you'd grace me with telling about?

>>97086

If you are referring to Bardon's second book, it is only intended as a side path once you have become proficient enough with IIH. Of course once you have progressed through IIH you may not even have the desire or need for PME. Also, by that point your views of them being "other dimensional beings" and the notion of "pacts" may change as well.

>>88525

PSIPOG? I'm interested. Where do I find it, is it in one of the libraries? What's the full title?

bump

>>97237

I have the entire psipog archive on an external hdd, can upload it somewhere if its not available

there are many paths but any book on good breathing and energy work is a must have

bump

>>98101

If I remember correctly that site's creator wrote a farewell post saying that after wasting 10 years on the stuff he finally gave up and concluded that macro psi is not possible.

He's a mobile game developer now.

>>78315

>"Carl Munck - The Code"

2 hours in my mind is thoroughly blown. I want a proper skeptic to talk me out of this, because I can't find any explanation other than this fucker is right, and the implications are… mind blowing. I could rationalize my way out of it 10, 20 minutes in, but it's way too much coincidence.

>mfw everything's in feet

Meep

>>98742

Is it crazier than this?

Ring Of Power: Empire of the City by Amenstop Productions

Beep

The only author I'd keep on the list is Bardon, and even his magic primarily is old Aeon, quickly losing power.

Although he's not a very good magician and the book is full of errors, Liber Null is a decent intro for absolute beginners.

SSOTBME by Ramsey Dukes is much better, but a bit more advanced.

And Kenneth Grant's Typhonian Trilogies are the most powerful works on Western magic in print, but his insanity and erudition make them only useful to advanced practitioners.

>>102815

So, Bardon's magic is too old and losing effectivenes, and you recommend this other shit based on fucking pre-dinasty African magic as the most powerful thing ever (but only if you are advanced).

You're full of it.

Someone at work was just shilling Urantia to me and a coworker. I prentended to be an unsuspecting mundane.

What is /fringe/'s take on that book?

>>102837

The Kybalion is a master key, it helps you understand everything else you read.

Most of your beef with the reading list is MUH HISTORY and MUH SOURCES. While occult history is a valid subject and paying homage to the original sources is fine and dandy, the texts in the reading list are the condensation of knowledge taken from a great many sources. They are you say "distilled" and that's the point. It saves you shitloads of time and teaches you what you need to know, without spending years or lifetimes on some text whose mysteries most people would never penetrate.

/fringe/ is about training people to be magicians not occult historians.

You should make a second reading list for occult historians if you want such a list.

Also all those books are talked about on the board and in the libraries anyways.

Making the required reading list bigger by adding all that other material you want in is not a good idea. All that stuff is optional.

No reason we can't make more reading lists and have them. Just create your own list and it can be added to the board page as "Anon's Occult History Reading List" or something.

BTW I've read every single book you mention and know every author you've referenced.

I wonder what you think of Light on the Path.

Besides Plato, Buddha, and Christ are known to all and don't need to be recommended.

>Also, its not a book, but if you are into this sort of thing having a tarot deck is a real good resource for /fringe/ knowledge.

So is tea leaves, bones, bird sightings, and what ever else methods you want for divination. Tarot is only special in that it has a fairly wide range of archetypes linked to each card.

>>102823

I'm very full of it indeed. I've never toiled at an honest day's work, studied for a test, been considerate of others needs or feelings, kept my word, or had much of a commitment to telling the truth.

Yet everything I have ever wanted has manifested in my life, usually within a few months of my deciding I want it. An attractive, intelligent wife from a well-off family. A well-paying job that provides substantial political power and very little work. A healthy, well-behaved child. An honors degree. Good health. And so on.

I'm the laziest, most selfish bastard most people have ever come across, yet people think I'm hard-working, caring, generous, gentle, kind. I'm loved and showered with gifts wherever I go. And I do nothing for it but will for it to be so.

I'm mostly self-taught, and I mastered the art of magick many years before coming across Grant's work. But I know a fellow master when I see one. His books are works of occult magick in themselves, which is why they appear mundane or nonsensical to the uninitiated. They are only of use to one who is ready to cross the Abyss.

I see little point in reading or following anyone who has not made the crossing, as they are just the blind leading the blind.

Why am I here? Why do I troll the sewers of the internet imparting my wisdom? Because I am obligated to do so. That is the price I must pay for the power I have taken for myself. I want every single person on this planet to wake up and realize their will as I have, for their strength is my strength.

Go ahead and think I'm lying, or crazy, just read The Magical Revival with an open mind. Take your time, don't move on to the next paragraph until you understand the one you've just read. You can meet Brahman face to face, the books are a map.

>>102869

I was just saying your dismisal of Bardon on grounds of it being "last aeon" makes no sense because Grant's work is based on older principles.

>>102850

>So is tea leaves, bones, bird sightings, and what ever else methods you want for divination. Tarot is only special in that it has a fairly wide range of archetypes linked to each card.

Once again you automatically project and think that I mean have Tarot cards exclusively for means of divination. Yes sure, tea leaves and bones are just as good but they do not compare as a resource for occult knowledge. They are interesting to look at and all have a huge amount of symbolism which is spread universally over western esotericism. You do not need to practice divination with them you can just meditate upon what the cards are expressing or examine them in an analytical manner to see the connections lurking within Mythology, Religion, and the Occult. You may be quite content and comfortable to just sit and look at a pile of bones but Tarot is more than mere divinatory tool they are art themselves. To summarise and dismiss tarot so easily and say you might as well just get some tea leaves illustrates how little you have studied it yourself before making such a denying opinion.

>>102876

>implying I didn't just say they are special because of the archetypes bound up in each card

When I want to divine things I just "hold the thought" and let the answer be spoken to me through all reality btw. It comes through any medium, be it random other shitposters, ethereal voices, synchronicities, or symbolism meaningful to me. I'm a stronk indydynt magi who don't need no tarot.

I can't even afford a tarot card deck also I rarely have any money and don't prioritize money enough to make the sacrifices to get it when I know that if I ever make any money and it's discovered it'll be just taken away from me, so it's largely futile unless I can obtain it in secret without people knowing and I really just don't want to get a tarot card deck as I prefer my current methods of divination and meditation on deities/archetypes heh

>>102875

Anon I'm hella busy and can't even read your post right now (later I will) but if you want additions made to the reading list please create a second list of recommended books, post your list in here, and I'll copypaste it in.

>>102869

The Magickal Revival is mostly armchair material: history. Amazing how one can claim it unlocks the mysteries of the universe when it's so full of, and nothing more than words.

Like Crowley's books, this is little more than ego stroking, quotes and a useless recollection of dates and events sprinkled with a lot of overengineered correspondences and obvious cultural decontextualization.

High brow magick, everyone. Useless, academic and out of touch. Perfect college material.

Get the fuck out of here.

>>100295

Shit. I'm not even 1 hour in and I'm literally feeling nauseous.

The world is fucked.

>>102825

>chicago

Has anyone here read David Hume? Why does Atkinson think that everything must respect the "law" of causation? Connections between events are purely mental and doesn't exist in nature.

"It appears that, in single instances of the operation of bodies, we never can, by our utmost scrutiny, discover any thing but one event following another, without being able to comprehend any force or power by which the cause operates, or any connexion between it and its supposed effect. The same difficulty occurs in contemplating the operations of mind on body- where we observe the motion of the latter to follow upon the volition of the former, but are not able to observe or conceive the tie which binds together the motion and volition, or the energy by which the mind produces this effect. The authority of the will over its own faculties and ideas is not a whit more comprehensible: So that, upon the whole, there appears not, throughout all nature, any one instance of connexion which is conceivable by us. All events seem entirely loose and separate. One event follows another; but we never can observe any tie between them. They seemed conjoined, but never connected. And as we can have no idea of any thing which never appeared to our outward sense or inward sentiment, the necessary conclusion seems to be that we have no idea of connexion or force at all, and that these words are absolutely without meaning, when employed either in philosophical reasonings or common life." David Hume, 1737

I am just asking.

>>106193

That may have some validity.

Sounds like some Immanuel Kant shite.

Any good guides on hand gesture magick?

>>106544

>you only expect the sun to rise tomorrow because it has done so every other day … Hume points out the naievete in this manner of thinking

No that is maturity in thinking. It is NAIVE to expect the sun to burst into a bowl of tulips. Don't make it what it isn't for an indirect benefit (questioning the nature of things to get others to be more flexible in their world view).

Some in their uncertainty allow their imagination to make the "boogy men" of the dark much more than they are. That there is no "solid refutation" just goes to show the cowardice prevalent in humanity, that they'd allow word games to make their legs shake. I'm sure there are MANY refutations, yet they aren't recognized by others so they aren't "solid". The philosophy itself isn't fucking solid. It's a mist, trying to seep through the cracks. It leverages against the common mania with microscopic information, details, stimuli.

"Why expect the sun to rise tomorrow?" is just a gateway to questioning common patterns in your life via Law of Correspondence. It's an alchemical question for what we take for granted in the rest of our life. It's basically poetry, not philosophy. Well, we can think of all non-practical philosophy as poetry.

The game won't give the means to destroy it. If you play philosophy, all you'll ever get is philosophy, but the concept of philosophy itself is already a limiting perception. Its bias is purposeful, of course, yet I don't give a shit. Suck my cock.

The knowledge of astronomy is a compounding cause (CAN WE REALLY KNOWWWW IIIITTTTTTT???) for expecting the sun to rise tomorrow.

This Hume fellow was attempting to make uncertainty a cultural force and succeeded, so kudos to Hime. I'm sure there was an oppressing atmosphere of rigidity and certainty in his time. Be self-aware about this being totally relative to the necessity of the circumstances however. Each specific thing about it isn't very important, but rather its total impact. The oppressed Scotland, under the British Sun, wishes for tulips.

Questioning cause and effect… I'm sure this was incredibly relevant to his situation and those of his countrymen. "How can we prosper and bloom?" "Is the British Sun really going to rise tomorrow?" "Could we fight a better fight, with a true measure of things?"

~

>>106591

And this really is about cowardice and courage. Why else did this artist have to draw from the smallest, and expand on it with the will of the imagination, into something great and moving?

Because the courage to think, act, and be different and independent was small within the Scottish hearts. The vision for a greater tomorrow was just too marginalized to approach the real problems of the time directly.

The game they didn't want to play was British Rule, and so they played a different game.

bumper

>>108277 (noice)

Jump

Up

>>110866

Stop bumping threads with that. It was just a joke in a chat, after telling a childhood story…it wasn't anything serious. You guys aren't friends and it was a meaningless conversation, that she doesn't remember having. She isn't friends with you, doesn't remember you. It's unnerving how random internet anons.. that a person continually keeps trying to get away from.. won't leave a person alone. You posting that stuff is insulting. You and others, repeatedly get asked to stop, to go away and you don't. The messages have been loud and clear. Now fuck off! Kthnx bye! [ - ] adding "up" to the word filter.

>>110882

Down ;)

Look at me, can't manage muh loosh sploosh

>>110882

Ur just mad I got dubs. Up you go now

>>111656

>>110891

[ - ]

>>111671

>>111767

I've always wondered the same, but atkinson has gotten plenty of flak for only pretending to be a yogi.

Uhp

bump

>>77933

I never noticed OP was a New Thought follower, I ended up stumbling between the schools to land on this one. Is that the recomended reading order? I was starting with Personal Power

>>111782

Is purple pill stuff actually good or just memes?

>>102837

Imho the Tao de Ching should be on this list as well.

The Trivium is so you don't go in circles playing low fucking grammar, logic and rhetorical games and exercises. It makes you more EFFICIENT. The basics. No matter your experience, this is the explicit HARDWARE that your conversations and thinking rests on. If you do something that seems to contradict these yet works, it's an engineering feat or you are relying on the ignorance/incompetence of others, rather than a programming error or the failings of grammar/logic/rhetoric to hold itself to a higher standard.

The /pol/lack reading rainbow leads to the magical land of Oz. If you want to understand history and current events, and be capable of discussions that – once again – don't go in circles, you should be reading these. You don't have to disagree or agree with everything someone says if you are uncertain, and you should remember things as they are written and try not to conceptually nor explicitly distort what an author says. Stay in the process, don't quit reading because "I know enough". You shouldn't finish this book list at the end of your life. 2-3 years is enough to read ~70 books.

you faggili nigerians need a sense of GRAVITY. Let the words weight on you very unlike air or even rain, but instead pebbles. By the great stones of literary greats, may you HOIST diligently, for strength is in the overcoming of resistance rather than avoidance or apathy of such. No man who finds words quite free of gravity is unlike an animal or child, for he has abandoned his reason but for the generation of ink in which to blot the view of any individual with greater mental competence. Toy words serve no man, but children and animals.

>>122631

I'm using Gwynne's Grammar, Introduction to Logic by Copi, and Farnsworth's Classical English Rhetoric.

Even if it's not as good, I wouldn't know… and it's free from the library. I'll find all the weak points when I read a level 2 sort of book anywho.

>>122620

I should note that adding random weight to words is retarded. The scales, THE SCALES! Learn how others weight words and balance them on THE SCALES!

INFINITE SCALE WORKS

>>122656

>Learn how others weight words and balance them on THE SCALES!

Solid foundation, now build on it so that others may use it.

Give me ten words that you have assigned a high weight to based on observed use.

Thank you for your time and service.

>>122620

Bah, the true wizard plays the piano by ear.

>>77933

TBH the entire reading list is worthless. Who cares how many DIY books are on your shelf if you've never built anything?

Experience is the best teacher. Identify your tools, identify what material you have available to work with, identify your goal, plot a course from A to B using the resources at your disposal.

>>122791

To clarify, I've only read the Key Concepts page on Montalk and nothing else from the reading list.

If I had to tell someone one thing to read that's worth reading, it'd be Bluefluke's psychonaut field manual.

>>122791

Depends, talent helps.

>>122795

Well yeah, if you're a natural learner then it comes quicker, but everyone is talented at something. The trick is to learn how to translate anything into something you already understand.

>>122799

Depends, there's perception of things, then there's the ability to judge things. Understanding is familiar with both.

>>122803

I think we're approaching this from similar angles. My lens has been "knowledge is not understanding, understanding is not knowledge".

Each compliments the other.

>>122806

We do have the same mindset then, except sometimes they do not compliment each other and in fact can conflict or destroy one another.

>>122810

Yep. The one truth I've found is that dichotomies can paralyze thought and action.

>>122811

You're better off swimming against such a current.

>>86958

>Crowley

>Jew Magick

those books might not be safe to follow

>>123518

Why? Who cares?

>>123530

I don't want to give you my energy kike

The Cubic Stone

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wjjx63uho89p0pg/the%20cubic%20stone.pdf?dl=0

Bump for neophytes

>>102850

If you don't know your history, then you're doomed to make the same mistakes. Fuck me, mate. You really didn't keep that axiom in mind before making your stupid fucking post? You've got to be not only the dumbest fuck I've had the displeasure of responding to, but also a faggy charlatan.

You're going to sit there and expect us to belive that not knowing about the relationship between Crowley and Regardie isn't intrical to a Magician's growth? Oh no, let's just learn the LBRP without knowing what any of it means or without learning the history behind it. Nope, none of that matters. Many of you here need to go read Sane Occultist by Dion Fortune.

>>133745

And you need to get a gripe on your ego. I'll go read Sane Occultist in the meanwhile. Thanks for the recommendation.

>>134170

>I'm presently still on the Kybalion, but I'm really enjoying it. It seems to perfectly harmonize Neoplatonism with Gnostic Dualism, as well as elements of Advaita Vedanta. Real good stuff.

You are the most intelligent anon I've met on this board, and that is saying nothing at all. You have more to teach than to learn for most of the noobs here

>>134209

Everyone loves the Hermeticism but…

The book that has the most famous depiction of Baphomet?

What are you, Crowleyphilic?

I actually haven't delved in that direction all the good stuff has already been said, it just all seems regurgitated to me but I just furiously looked into it and found this much

>The Sabbatic Goat, from the Ritual of Transcendental Magic, by Éliphas Lévi, who identifies it with the Baphomet of Mendes, and does not regard it as connected with Black Magic, but as "a pantheistic and magical figure of the absolute.

So seems legit, I guess. Levi was certainly instrumental in the resurgence of esotericism in the modern era, but so was Crowley and he's a bumfucking faggot!

Anyways I can't imagine the need to use such imagery when there's no affiliation with satanism, transgeders, etc.

The principles of Polarity and Gender/Generation (btw half assing this look up will lead to the principles in the wrong order. I can't believe the principles are listed in the wrong order all over the internet. Godamned travesty)

Baphomet as a representation of alignment with the principles, or something, is not inaccurate and obviously show that Levi knows what he's talking about, but it just doesn't seem human, but I'm saging because now I really am using a whole bunch of words to say nothing

>>134227

You let mundie politics dictate your thoughts. Sad.

>>134246

What the fuck does any of this have to do with politics?

>>102875

I agree. There are literally ZERO primary texts on that list. No Corpus Hermetica, no Aesclepius, not even the De Mysteriis of Iamblichus which is the foundational text on theurgy! The closest there is is The Kybalion, that is if you want the McDonald's version of Hermeticism.

>>102850

>/fringe/ is about training people to be magicians not occult historians.

Your idea of a magician is someone who read 16 books and conducted a few rituals?

>Besides Plato, Buddha, and Christ are known to all and don't need to be recommended.

People know of them, but the vast majority have not read them.

>Plato

Unless they are a philosophy graduate, or read excerpts from The Republic in a polysci or a survey course on philosophy, most people have not read a single word of Plato in their free time. The type of people I've listed above except for the phil grads have a superficial understanding of Plato at best.

>Christ

Most Christians haven't even read the Bible in full, and they mainly just quote verses out of context to feel morally superior.

>Buddha

The West's understanding of Buddhism is just embarrassing. Either they think it's some philo-psychological scientism stripped of all spirituality to improve brain functionality (like Sam Harris), or it's some nihilistic death cult (thanks Schopenhauer and Nietzsche!). Most of them don't know of any Buddhist works outside of the Dhammapada or the Tibetan Book of the Dead (no offense >>102837) What's worse is people adopt the meditation and mindfulness techniques so they can temporarily relieve the burdens of modern living, instead of trying to outright cure them. Even worse still, you have corporations recommending their employees to practice mindfulness meditation for the purpose of keeping them content with their shitty work conditions, squeezing more productivity out of them, all the while having them think are solely responsible for their own misery. Seeing spiritualism, the last line of resistance left against capitalism and modernity, being appropriated by capitalists and used against itself, fills me with feelings of abject terror, anger, and disgust.

>>134345

What is buddhism really about, according to you? To me, it seems kind of gay.

>>134201

I'd just like to mention that although Fringe Knowledge in it's entirety is legitimate, it's understandable to be skeptical as even when I was reading it I knew there would eventually be some crazy alien shit going on but it's only near the end that there is some detail of the human control matrix that has basically enslaved us…

I would say that this stuff is still basically within acceptable rhetoric, and totally accurate and valid, technically, but it's actually just an incredible exaggeration and really just wholly over-sensationalizing it…

The book starts out awesome and over all is great though

Also the Gnosis section of the website is incredibly wild… But if you don't have any background knowledge in Alchemy then it's all just gonna be really fluffy; a really fun long read regardless though

>>134349

>What is buddhism really about, according to you?

To cease to suffer and desire, and reach Nirvana. What else would it be? The irony is, people use it as a coping mechanism to live with modern capitalist society, instead of abolishing their dependence on it, and if they would just stop and think about the core teachings of Buddhism, the Four Noble Truths, and the Eightfold Path, they would realize how antithetical Buddhism is to Capitalism. And then you have the people who meditate to gain supernatural powers for entertainment or to carve out some small dominion in manifested existence, which completely misses the point

>>134377

What do you think Nirvana means, and why should anyone try to attain such a thing? People who want Nirvana tend to not understand what it really means, or if they do they have no interest in the physical realm and should just leave now.

>>134392

What are you implying here, that Nirvana is some void or nothingness, and Buddhism is some nihilistic death cult? Because, it's not.

>People who want Nirvana tend to not understand what it really means, or if they do they have no interest in the physical realm and should just leave now.

There are people who have reached enlightenment called Boddhisatvas, who choose to stay in samsara to help other people reach enlightenment, and it is the most selfless and compassionate act one can do. What do you think Nirvana is? If there is something to you that's worth staying in this funhouse called samsara, what is it?

>>134426

>If there is something to you that's worth staying in this funhouse called samsara, what is it?

Existing? Being alive?

I asked you questions and you did not answer them. You are full of shit

>>134429

To be alive and exist for what?

>>134431

Being able to have experiences, and to learn from them.

If you want to end your life, just do it faggot

>>134432

>If you want to end your life, just do it faggot

And there it is! What is your beef against Buddhism anyway? Also, suicide will only earn you a one way ticket to Naraka.

>>134433

I didn't say suicide. Nirvana means you stop existing. if you want that, then do it. Stop trying to get people to join your dumb cult

>There are people who have reached enlightenment called Boddhisatvas, who choose to stay in samsara to help other people reach enlightenment, and it is the most selfless and compassionate act one can do.

P R E T E N T I O U S

>>134434

I never said I was a Buddhist. I't just annoys me to see legit spiritual pathways to be stripped of substance and appropriated for consumerist and profiteering ends, especially when it causes misconceptions in how that religion is understood.

IDK WTF is up with Buddhism, but ZEN is awesome.

HOWEVER I have an interpretation that can save the nonsense of Buddhism, and it may be something that was closer to what the original proponents had in mind

I consider Samsara as repetition, and Nirvana as creativity. Samsara is grounding, and Nirvana is inspiring.

Absolute Nirvana would break all cycles of Samsara and thus would end existence.

You need some Samsara to exist.

This is why I say that the illusion of Duality is necessary, and it is a Gift that Unity has created so that us lowly illusions called egos may exist.

Without any illusion, there would be no existence as existence is itself an illusion. Only the mind of God is real, and all else is an illusion allowed to exist through the will of God.

Growth requires Experience, which requires Existence, which requires Illusion.

Because we experience things through consciousness, it is the consciousness (without any ego) that is real, aka the mind.

Therefore, arguably, experiences are actually real. It's our responses to all this illusion that we experience,

God lives through us vicariously, and we through him. That's the realness in the duality of yin yang, and we and God are connected through spirit, which is the whole circle. Or maybe I mixed something up there; whatever it doesn't really matter but all religions, philosophies, schools of spirituality, etc, can be aligned to a certain truth or another, and if your lucky it might be the actual truth…

Also there is some sort of 'energy' or 'vibration' that is essentially some flavor of consciousness that allows us to have our unique sovereign identities.

>>134440

It's illegitimate and I explained many times way, and I asked you questions which you didn't answer. If you don't know what you're talking about, then why are you even getting triggered? It's like you're just here to shit up the board. Whatever, go ahead, stay triggered. You're just making a fool of yourself

Terence McKenna wrote a few interesting books.

I find his explorations into ICHING and the mapping of creative energy, quite fascinating.

>>134442

I did answer your questions, but you came off as an interrogatory jackass trying to catch me in some sort of linguistic "gotcha", who isn't interested in discourse, which turned out I was right.

>>134449

>What do you think Nirvana means, and why should anyone try to attain such a thing?

What do you think Nirvana means, and why should anyone try to attain such a thing?

?!?!?!?!?!?

>>134452

I think the best way for me to describe Nirvana is apophatically: unqualified, unconditioned, unlimited, unbounded, timeless, etc. To think of it as nothing is a classical mistake, which leads to misunderstandings that Buddhism is a nihilistic religion and life-denying. Nirvana means to snuff out, as in completely and totally eradicating all desire, ego, and movement of thought, including the seed or germ which causes them to arise. People who have managed to achieve this apotheotic state report feeling infinite, unfathomable bliss beyond words (not to get confused with happiness or sensory pleasure), un-attachment, and stillness of thought. The reasons why someone would want to reach Nirvana is because, you escape samsara and not have to suffer through the cycle of death-and-rebirth again, and so you can be reunited with the Absolute Reality that transcends the Manifest and the Unmanifest that I described at the beginning.

>>134453

Suffering is a state of mind that can change as your perspective changes.

But you are saying that the only way to end suffering is to cease existence and "reunite with the Absolute Reality"

This is a death cult. Humanity must continue to exist, FUCK OUTTA HERE

>>134453

https://medium.com/@sasha.manu95/there-and-back-again-the-unity-of-samsara-and-nirvana-in-tantric-and-zen-buddhism-d525df878de1

>Nirvana is attained when dualistic thinking is transcended, and the mind is freed from all karmic conditioning.

>While these states seem diametrically opposed, their inseparability is postulated in many occult texts, particularly those belonging to the Vajrayana and Zen Buddhist schools.

>While both traditions hold that Samsara and Nirvana are fundamentally inseparable, the journeys from ignorance to realization are vastly different. I will argue that the journey of a Tantrika is a transformative process of experiencing the realm of duality in its fullest, and then transcending it. Whereas the Zen journey immediately attacks the misconceptions of Samsara and aims to quickly transcend all forms of dualistic thinking. Zen is taught from the perspective of Nirvana, teachings are predicated on Buddhahood being inherent within us. While Tantra is taught from within Samsara, with mastery of the phenomenal world leading to transcendence of it. This leads to the Tantric path being gradual and immersive, while Zen is simple and direct.

zen is superior

>>134454

>But you are saying that the only way to end suffering is to cease existence and "reunite with the Absolute Reality"

That's not what I said. If you read what I said carefully, the people who described the ontological state of Nirvana achieved it while they were alive. Also, you are forgetting that humans are not the only species going through samsara, and they can be reincarnated as humans. Second, if you are born a human, that means you are relatively close (with heavy emphasis on the word relatively) to reaching Nirvana.

>Suffering is a state of mind that can change as your perspective changes.

That is because you are at the mercy of the whims of maya and lost in the world of multiplicity. There are times where people reach mystical states of clarity for a few moments and slowly come back and lose it, but Nirvana once reached never goes away since you have integrated truth.

>>134455

I don't disagree.

>>134458

>If you read what I said carefully, the people who described the ontological state of Nirvana achieved it while they were alive.

Feel free to quote yourself to show where you said this, because it sounds like you are just going back on your own words.

And the rest of what you said is completely irrelevant.

>a once reached never goes away since you have integrated truth.

So what is the point of talking about it?

IT IS COMPLETELY TOTALLY AND UTTERLY CONDESCENDING TO ASSUME WHO HAS ACHIEVED NIRVANA AND WHO HASN'T

Who the fuck are you to say who is suffering and who isn't?

And furthermore

You were literally are asking what the point of living in Samsara is!!!!!!

This is completely antithetical to what you are saying now. What you are saying now is that anyone who has reached Nirvana while they are alive are always in that state. IF THEY ARE ALIVE THEY ARE STILL EXPOSED TO SAMSARA. So how fucking retarded is your question now?

>the Zen journey immediately attacks the misconceptions of Samsara and aims to quickly transcend all forms of dualistic thinking.

Master race

>>134460

>Feel free to quote yourself to show where you said this, because it sounds like you are just going back on your own words.

I said it here.

>People who have managed to achieve this apotheotic state report feeling infinite, unfathomable bliss beyond words (not to get confused with happiness or sensory pleasure), un-attachment, and stillness of thought.

It logically follows that the only way these people can give these reports is if they are alive, don't you think?

>Who the fuck are you to say who is suffering and who isn't?

I was merely explaining the difference between the ontological states of mystical experience and enlightenment, and I was only stating usual reported feelings of those who are living it. I was not pontificating at all.

>This is completely antithetical to what you are saying now. What you are saying now is that anyone who has reached Nirvana while they are alive are always in that state. IF THEY ARE ALIVE THEY ARE STILL EXPOSED TO SAMSARA.

Nope. Their minds are unconditioned and are no longer influenced by samsara through subject-object distinctions. They see everything as it really is.

>So how fucking retarded is your question now?

I have answered these questions several times already. You are deliberately being obtuse.

>>134467

You said that just now, not way back when you were asking me what the point of Samsara was. You didn't know what Nirvana was until I explained it and baby fed you, because otherwise we wouldn't have been arguing all this time. It's sad your ego is so big that you are STILL arguing

Posting in ignorance facilitates the spread of ignorance. I have to point out the distinctions in the way you're talking. Before it was basically disinformation. Misdirection through omission.

Getting a nuance incorrect completely warps and corrupts the entire teachings; this is why Zen warriors are so zealous in clarifying all misconceptions of Samsara.

>>134467

>Their minds are unconditioned and are no longer influenced by samsara

>They see everything as it really is.

Yeah yeah that's basically what I've been saying all this entire time

>through subject-object distinctions.

don't pretend to know what that means. Most philosophers, academics, etc don't seem to know or rather can't seem to agree on those terms like subjectivity and objectivity. It is quite sad actually

>>86958

This is actually top tier list of books.

>>86960

>James Joyce

I literally can't see that in the picture, or am I blind

>>134490

>I don't know what this term means, so you're full of shit.

I haven't posted on /fringe/ in years and I see the same old 4/x/ list of books is here. Not that I have a problem with them but I'm surprised that modern authors are never discussed on image boards. There are different types of magic to chose from so this neophyte list, even by its very name, is catered towards Hermetics. I don't care how you choose to categorize the names but folk/pagan magic and chaos magic have different entry level books compared to ceremonial magic. There is also considerable overlap between traditions, like Agrippa's role in Appalachian Christian magic, but not everyone on /fringe/ is going to be purely into Hermetics. Then you have some traditions with no English presence at all, like Thai folk magic and whatever else goes on in obscure jungles around the world. I don't remember where I was trying to go with this post now but I always thought of Kraig as being the most entry level as his books are made for beginners, although I never read any of them but I hear him recommended often.

To get to the point of thread now, I have not read any of Atkinson's, Bardon's, or Bruce's books, but I have read books that use Bardon and more as sources. Bruce's Psychic Self-Defense is a book I always wanted to read, but Fortune's book of the same name was helpful at the time. I read some of Crowley but I didn't care for his books either just because he is not my cup of coffee. I read some of Montalk many years ago but I can't remember it now.

My successful magic is led by psychic instinct I suppose would be an easy way to describe it. Intent with good karma in combination with sigils and/or candles works for me. I am not a summoner or ceremonial magician. Despite this pagan route, The Kybalion has been insightful and I partly began through alchemy books. Icelandic magic is more medieval magic than pagan magic in many ways but this is where my magic really began. Flowers of course is the most entry level here for all things runes. Before this, I was into martial arts energy work, so I really began not with books at all. After this, I eventually found Targ and Swann, which are great for beginners as we all grew up in an atheistic school system where material is all that is taught and even big religion has been turned into a belief system without true spirit. I grew up Christian but half of my church didn't believe in magic. Magic was something I just assumed to always be real, even before having paranormal events. So to answer your question is difficult because I don't know how advanced I should say I am. I've been moving more towards shamanism and animism, which is very different from the Hermetic path.

(Post continued after this one)

For beginners, I would recommend they learn about defense, healing, and psychic intuition first. This is what I needed in my life first but I think it's a good step to take. The Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram and protection spells should be first to purify the magician's environment. Learning to interpret their psychic thoughts should also be taught early on, from vibes to avoid bad people and accidents to dream interpretation. This should be followed up with Carl Jung, Joseph Campbell, Jordan Peterson's lectures, and Plato. Curses, vampires, evil demons/djinn, and more are everywhere and Abrahamic religions reinforce trauma which increases these things. Self-protection of the magician should come first.

After this, The Kybalion and related works are a good place to start on esoteric philosophy, but like >>102837 stated, the original sources should be foundational to a beginner's list on magic. Agrippa's four books on occult philosophy are also foundational material. There are several books that try to condense practices for new magicians, so Kraig, Dubois, and Skinner all have books with the same images. Kraig's is more practical, Skinner's is more reference, and Dubois's is more complete in explaining. Mathers, Regardie, Read, Waite, and Frater U.D. are good for starting magicians to read. I haven't read McLean but skimming his books now looks like they could be important. I don't know of any books on the tarot but the Watie deck and an understanding of divination, symbolism, and synchronicity should be known, even if the magician has no interest in cards. Likewise, grail myths should be familiarized with.

Gnostic literature is useful in addition to the Bible, but to include these means you need to include how they were taken from prior sources like Buddha, Greco-Egyptian, Sumerian, Roman, and Zoroastrian. Also good to include with this is Medieval Monasticism by Lawrence and books about Christianity's origins. I never read Mircea Eliade but I should. Just learning about prehistory to modern history in general is going to be useful to build the setting around when grimoires were written and why certain beliefs were around different time periods.

I've wanted to arrange magicians' books in some kind of logical order or graph for some time now or make an essentials list but it really is a difficult task. Practicality reduces understanding, lack of understanding reduces magic potential, and lack of magical results makes magic impractical. People just really need to take years to get around to reading and practicing. Looking for a fast path will only slow people down by pushing off what they need to learn. Even if you do leap ahead to some godlike events, then you will likely look back and see you need to go back to do life in order.

Mat Auryn's Psychic Witch is a good book for beginners that is not pretentious nor rooted in Golden Dawn magic.

There is also a surprising amount of good information on intuitive/psychic magic in books written by regular TV-type healers, psychics and mediums, but I don't have those references at hand right now. I doubt they would be appreciated here anyway.

>>134558

I've seen that book over a dozen times on Amazon but I never bothered to click it. I've never heard of that author before but I'm surprised to see it has 235 ratings and 5 stars when it released just this year. Even all the reviews listed in the description are from authors I've never heard of. They seem to all be from Llewellyn I'm assuming. The only recent Llewellyn book I own is The World of Shamanism by Roger Walsh, which I really liked but it reads more like an anthropology book. If you use Amazon, now is a good time to order books because lots of them have been on sale lately.

I never watch television anymore but I do own one book that was sold to go with a documentary long ago. It was bought used and is actually older than me by a year. The book is called Healing States by Alberto Villoldo and Stanley Krippner. The authors are not healers themselves but they write about shamans in the Amazon rain forest who use strange techniques, like rubbing guinea pigs over the bodies of people in the belief that guinea pigs are sensitive to curses and will die if one is present in the body. It's a small book but very fascinating.

It was just this year that I ordered several books about American witchcraft, which is said to come from German Christianity with mixture of Irish and Cherokee traditions. I only started reading into of them so far. People claim there are no pagan influence on these practices but I don't know how true that is and I find that doubtful. There was a large exchange of knowledge and practices when Christianity began to blend with folk traditions over in Europe. From what I've read and heard in interviews, is that the Bible appears to be used as a book of spells rather than seen as a book on philosophy and history. Appalachia is a strange place where the Bible is the grimoire. Many of these traditions are quickly vanishing though.

Podcast interviews is more of what I've been into lately, especially those involving authors.

>>134576

I haven't read them.

>>134737

This list seems good.

>>106681

>Funny how in your attack on philosophy you present your own

One cannot speak of a philosophy or direct anything at it without asserting some philosophy of their own (according to philosophers at least). It is for sure an attack, but more so an attack on Hume and the standing of similar philosophy in relation to the rest of thought (and reality perhaps). Thus your statement is dishonest or misconceived and redundant, its connotations or significance erroneous.

> I think the type of analytical and critical thought philosophy can require to be quite useful in many practical ways for a variety of things.

Tree states how Hume's philosophy is practically useful so I'm not sure what contradiction you think you're stating or what you thought Tree was stating.

>I also don't think reading or practicing philosophy limits your perception, if anything doing the opposite is what makes you ignorant, pushing everything off and just calling it a load of crap but still going on your own personal philosophy.

<Philosophy itself is already a limiting perception. Its bias is purposeful, of course.

Same story. Misreading Tree. One cannot get away from bias. Fundamentally one biases or focuses their attention always, always shifting their attention from one thing so that it leaves it, and biases their consciousness and is biased by what they perceive by the act of focusing, unfocusing, shifting, et cetera. Even keeping your consciousness still and clear and encompassing is a bias. So fundamentally he is correct that philosophy is a bias, and a purposeful one. All things are. All acts of consciousness bias and are basically purposeful or teleological. Tree states that Hume's philosophy is useful and how, so I am not sure what contradiction you are sloppily and bluntly trying to contradict.

So far you just seem defensive without engaging with the thought of Tree's posts. It seems he's saying that the philosophy's use and reason it had an impact on European thought at the time is in the usefulness of the act of questioning temporal reality (object reality), which Tree interpreted as likely being relevant to Hume's people and nation: Scotland; or of a people governed in general. But he is making a general statement about it's usefulness, not just a specific case:

<Be self-aware about this being totally relative to the necessity of the circumstances however. Each specific thing about it isn't very important, but rather its total impact. The oppressed Scotland, under the British Sun, wishes for tulips.

<Questioning cause and effect… I'm sure this was incredibly relevant to his situation and those of his countrymen.

>What's wrong with poetry as well?

I don't think he was criticizing poetry. I think he was calling impractical philosophy the realm of opinion, taste and subjectivity. He even says something poetic in his second post.

>I find good philosophy is not when you come out of it knowing more but knowing less than you did when you went in. There are a lot of truths within philosophy they are just different kinds of truths, and maybe you are right, who knows, and the entirety of philosophy, completely inavoidable as it may be, may have just been an entire waste of time and nothing.

Once again, the difference in thought between you and Tree is more nuanced than you're giving credit.

<"Why expect the sun to rise tomorrow?" is just a gateway to questioning common patterns in your life

He even says what you are, in other words.

>Not sure what you are on about with the Scottish and the British (even though they are in a sense one in the same and the United Kingdom was formed by Scotland themselves) bit of a loose tangent don't you think?

I'm not sure how aware you are of Scott-English animosity, but it seems to be null.

>I really have no idea where you are going with that.

Jesus f. Christ

>>134201

I don't recommend Montalk or any Alien/Reptilian stuff. UFOs and all exist but I don't trust Montalk or any others to interpret reality. Stick to UFO/strange phenomena, crop circles (as communication and/or knowledge) and some high quality witnesses/researchers.

The reading list should be more about physics, vortice physics/mathematics, gravity engines/power generators, water power generators, electricity, meridians/chi, martial arts/fitness to cultivate chi force/projection, electrodynamics of the body (based on meridian stuff), cia declassified documents, memory and reading techniques, logic, et cetera. Instead we get this gay jew magic. This reveals how very little anyone here knows anything, willing to gobble down anything they can find. Egyptian pyramids were electrical generators. If any were initiated into astral projection in it, it was because of it's highly charged interior, and that is speculation next to the very real electrical generation of the place.

bump

>>140075

Does it give the ability to intellectually btfo mundanes?

>>140082

It allows you to sound like an absolute autistic misfit to mundanes AND occultists.

NAOS by o9a

The Nexion journal on archive.org is very insightful as well. Specifically 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1

>>106591

You cannot be an occultist if you cannot fathom Hume’s idea of necessary connection being not much more than a promise of the mind.