/fringe/ - Fringe

Why was India ruled by the Brits?

The gods of India couldn't stop the Brits?

Perhaps there was a secret reason these people welcomed foreign overlords?

India is a very mysterious place, actually. I know little of it.

>>107873

Or is this to say that "Bhairava" is a universal deity?

I have heard one anon who claimed to be the Demiurge say that there are all sorts of lesser entities under the Demiurge and the Logos.

Regarding these infographs, I do not know the meaning of these infographs but they were left on /x/ by some random anon claiming to be the Demiurge and speaking on behalf of the Demiurge with accompanying small signs and wonders.

However, I am a skeptic online, since I have seen much rubbish on /x/ and many unfulfilled prophecies.

>>107878

bro… read this first.

Swami Lakshmanjoo's version is superior to any other, unless you can read Sanskrit.

Jaideva Singh's is more academic and, although he consulted commentaries, his version is similar to Lakshmanjoo's as he was his student.

Can't wait for Wallis' edition, so far he published partial translation which is dope.

"Problem" with VJBT is that the ślokas are very cryptic and you need to have some sort of commentary to know what the real method is. Moreover, the text presupposed the knowledge of Kashmiri Shaivism, without it you can get all the wrong ideas about the dharanas, in order to get the knowledge of it you can read (in order):

1. Kashmir Shaivism: Secret Supreme by Swami Lakshmanjoo

2. Doctrine of Vibration by Dyczkowski OR Aphorisms of Shiva by Dyczkowski

3. the other book by Dyczkowski

4. Aspects of Kashmir Shaivism by B. N. Pandit

Also, this is very good article and introduction to this tantra:

https://tantrikstudies.squarespace.com/blog/2016/10/6/will-the-real-vijaana-bhairava-please-stand-up

Uploaded some of my Vijnanabhairava materials (all 3 mentioned editions, which are the best of what you can find in English today and a raw translation by Odier, which I quite like) and aforementioned books on KS:

https://mega.nz/#F!4t1TTLhZ!1NafWLHBgFkmoV855gkLxA

A systematization of dharanas by Dyczkowski:

Breath: 24-27, 55, 64, 154

Kundalini: 28-31, 35

Dvadaśanta: 50-51, [55]

Senses: 32, 36, 67, 77?, 89, 117, 136

Sound and Mantra: 38-42, 90-91, 114

Void: 43-48, [49], 58-60, 120, 122

Universe (or absence thereof): 53, 56-57, 95

Body (or absence thereof): 46-48 (overlaps with Void), 52, 54, 63, 65, 93, 104, 107 [Note: I disagree with many of these being categorized as Body]

Heart/Center: 49, 61, 62

Pleasure: 68-74, 96

Light & Dark: 37, 76, 87, 88

Sleep & Dream [& Liminal states]: 55, 75, 86

Practice with the body: 66, 78-79, 81, 82, 83, 111

Gazing: 80, 84, 85, 113, 119-120

Equanimity: 100, 103, 123-4, 125-6, 129

Knowledge/insight: 97-99, 105, 106, 112, 127, 131

Intense sensations and emotions: 101, 115, 118

Where the mind goes: 33, 34, 92, 94, 108, 116, 128, [138]

The ‘magic show’: 102, 133-5, 137

The Supreme Lord: 109-110, 121, 132

May the knowledge of Supreme Trika never be forgotten.

>>108219

This.

>>108222

Now I will copypaste my posts from some other forum that contain a lot of resources on Tantra and Trika, Spanda etc. particularly. The YT vids by Dyczkowski are really recommended in the context of this tantra, as he explains 2 dharanas really well. Nevertheless one dharana can be practised in several ways, I practice Hamsa, which is dharana#1, just like Anapanasati - which is valid given the information from Ashtavakra gita - still, the first dharana can be practised in several different ways, Dyczkowski makes an awesome job of explaining one particular interpretation.

Here is a lecture given by Mark Dyczkowski, it's mostly about chanting Om, but it touches on many subjects, such as Vijnanabhairava tantra and Kashmir Shaivism generally, although the content given here (except for verses from Vijnanabhairava and Spandakarikas from his book) is mostly Upanishadic, still a great deal of knowledge, most of which is hard to obtain even for gods in many kalpas… I mean, hard to find anywhere else on the web.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ftGeQkvlwI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OmBhlWrrGc

Of course when it comes to practical side of Shaivism then Vijnanabhairava is a no-brainer. Just be careful to pick Swami Lakshmanjoo or Jaideva Singh edition (or both) and not Osho or Lorin Roche edition as they are not real Vijnanabhairava.

Some links that you might also find helpful:

http://tantrikstudies.squarespace.com/blogpage/

a homepage of Christopher Wallis, he seems a bit "New Agey" to me, but in his book and blog posts he also presents many practical sides of Shaivism and he certainly knows the tradition well

https://www.sanskrit-trikashaivism.com/en/english-home/100

some Argentinian guy who claims to have had a spontaneous initiation, I can't assess validity of many things on this site though

http://www.anuttaratrikakula.org

homepage of aforementioned Mark Dyczkowski, whom I don't need to introduce I think, he has lots of courses and some free info too, really priceless IMO, his reading list is also great, working my way through titles that I've missed (Aspects of Kashmir Shaivism is a gem really)

http://www.shivashakti.com

everyone knows this site I think but gonna post it regardless, Mike's translations and articles are mostly centered around Shaktism (particularly Kalikula and Śri Vidya), nevertheless he has a great deal of information there, some very hard to obtain and his abstacts and translations are really neat, he has a section on Shaivism too

https://oxford.academia.edu/AlexisSanderson

another scholar of great importance, he used to have his website with various texts, translations and papers but here is most of what was there anyway, if not more, you can find real gems on academia.edu, for example "The Yoga of the Malinivijayottaratantra" by Somadeva Vasudeva

https://kyoto-u.academia.edu/SomadevaVasudeva

https://univ-lille3.academia.edu/JuditTorzsok

https://saivatantra.com

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGKDWoW7Jtkt5Ph7YvKAFWQ

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIRReDGc_-Ubi0IxIEUx51A

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKYC_hMs3JRWaM_dfi_BnxA

You can also of course just study Tantraloka in it's entirety and get to know Tantra from Abhinavagupta Himself.

http://www.sutrajournal.com/a-thousand-years-of-abhinavagupta-by-jeffrey-lidke

Also check out more stuff from Sutra Journal, they aren't exclusively about Shaivism (not even exclusively about Tantra) but there are some gems there, like this one article here which concisely presents the life and subsequent ascension of Abhinavagupta who was an incarnation of Bhairava.

Another really valuable article from Wallis:

http://www.tantrikstudies.org/blog/2016/2/5/the-real-story-on-the-chakras

Speaking of which - if anyone would be interested in Kundalini and chakras in Kashmir Shaivism tradition then the best book on the matter is "Kundalini: Energy Of The Depths" by Lilian Silburn.

Also, "Born of the Yogini's Heart" by Paul Muller-Ortega is worth reading, it's somewhere on the web. It's a short article but very illuminating regarding the "cavern of the heart" metaphor in Shaivism.

http://www.danielodier.com/english/thePath.php

Daniel Odier might have some good info too.

>>107873

Because OP posted three dharanas from this tantra, but didn't provide any commentary nor context to the practice, I took liberty to make snippets of relevant fragments from the books I posted, as well as Odier's translation in order to illuminate what would otherwise be obscure - the translation OP used differs considerably from the more accurate renditions.

87.

During a dark and moonless night, eyes open in the dark, let your whole being melt into this obscurity and attain to the form of Bhairava.

88.

Eyes closed, dissolve into darkness, then open your eyes and identify with the awesome form of Bhairava.

This verse is quite a puzzle, as Singh's interpretation and Lakshmanjoo's do not agree. Also this translation is completely different than the one in OP post. I'd give priority (in every case) to Swami Lakshmanjoo as he was the last lineage holder of Trika and his interpretation presents a complete and easily understandable dharana.

89.

When an obstacle gets in the way of gratification through the senses, seize this instant of spatial emptiness which is the very essence of meditation.

>>108269

No problem! I just wanted to help anyone interested in this stuff, as without any commentary these verses are really cryptic. It's a shame that this very important Tantrik text doesn't get attention it deserves and there are still no versions with original commentaries in English.

If darkness is your thing, then you might want to interest yourself in Kalikula, as this particular form of Devi also has connections to similar practices - at least in terms of iconography and general… vibe? Kalikula section of shivashakti (link in my posts above) is a good place to start, as is Kali Kaula by Jan Fries.

Why is Mother Kali so radiantly black?

Because she is so powerful,

that even mentioning her name destroys delusion.

Because she is so beautiful,

Lord Shiva, Conquerer of death,

lies blissfully vanquished,

beneath the red soled feet.

There are subtle hues of blackness,

But her bright complexion

is the mystery that is utterly black,

overwhelmingly black, wonderfully black.

When she awakens in the lotus shrine

within the heart’s secret cave,

her blackness becomes the mystic illumination

that causes the twelve petal blossom there

to glow more intensely than golden embers.

Her lovely form is the incomparable

Kali- black blacker than the King of Death.

Whoever gazes upon this radiant blackness falls eternally in love

and feels no attraction to any other,

discovering everywhere only her.

This poet sighs deeply,

Where is this brilliant lady, this black light beyond luminosity?

Though I have never seen her, simply hearing her name,

the mind becomes absorbed completely in her astonishing reality.

~Ramprasad Sen

>>108273

No problem, if my posts get anyone interested in Trika and if they contribute to the spread of knowledge about this system then I'm more than happy.

>>108279

>I believe it is basically the same as described in the 88th verse.

Are you sure you linked the right meditation? The one you posted is just basic cessation-contemplation practice - Vipassana, zazen, first mental exercise from IIH step I, dharana from śloka 116 etc.

There is nothing particular about the meditation you posted. Dharanas from VJBT are meant to take you to samadhi and beyond - to full enlightenment. That is not to say you can't enter samadhi from cessation-contemplation, just that achieving a state where you allow your mind to observe your thoughts without attachment is not the purpose of most of them, most of them use some form of support to meditation and when you succeed in them you drop the support and enter samadhi.

>instant pure awareness/consciousness/rigpa

This isn't pure consciousness, not even infinite consciousness samadhi is pure consciousness (at least in the Trika terms) as the only pure consciousness is found at the state of Paramshiva, which is beyond being and non-being.

You need to reach Bhairava state. Observation of thoughts without attaching to them is praiseworthy and is something very needed, yet it isn't Bhairava state.

Dharana described in 88th śloka is something different entirely - it isn't nonconceptual as you have a support and focus of the meditation - darkness. Read the commentaries - you have to enter samadhi. Now, samadhi is state with no thought-constructs, when you catch a glimpse of your true Self. There can be no thoughts and even if you are detached from them and are just an observer there are still thoughts, no? There can be a lot said about samadhi, but the most basic thing that determines whether you have reached samadhi is that you stop breathing and move beyond the three mundane states (waking, dreaming, deep sleep) into the Fourth, that pervades all of them. Now, the aim of aivites is liberation. Not any liberation, only embodied liberation will do. Liberation while still alive after knowing one's Self is a purpose deemed worthy by Shaivites. So - samadhi only with your eyes closed won't do - you have to open your eyes yet still remain firmly established in the Fourth.

At least this is just my interpretation of why you have to reach samadhi with eyes open, take it with a grain of salt (or a whole lot) - I'm not some guru.

So I think these two meditations are very different, although every meditation operates, to some extent, on cessation-contemplation principles. Posting a very good booklet on it.

>>108463

>they were describing how the shaman goes into trance and in the trance state brings back spiritual helpers

Back when I was experimenting with shamanism I once brought back a beautiful butterfly with me from a journey! Didn't help me a whole lot though.

>These systems offered nothing without yhvh

I know, that's why I opted for Eastern stuff, as I already said.

>So an eastern version of iih or cermonial magic that has a clear step based program

Oh, how I wish for something like that too. Unfortunately, there is nothing like that, with one exception which I uploaded but I have my reservations in regards to this.

The book I posted is written by Mike Magee - the guy behind shivashakti website. It is a sort of mix between Eastern and Western, although it seems to me that it's just Western ritual practice but from Eastern point of view - maybe exactly what are you looking for on second thought. I haven't practised it and I don't know about the validity of it all as it seems very different from the ancient Tantrik currents. Nevertheless it might be worth giving it a try.

There is no step-by-step guide to Tantra, all the knowledge is scattered in many texts. Tantra wasn't meant to be studied by a lone practitioner from books, in the Tantrik age you would have a guru who would guide you. Unfortunately we don't have anything like that now. Moreover, the academic community (despite consisting of many scholars-practitioners) is more interested in metaphysical ideas and spirituality of Tantra and not with its magic systems, so this stuff isn't critically edited. There is a lot of tantras, even translated to English, which teach these things, but without any commentary of people knowing Sanskrit and working with the traditions for tens of years - you are often clueless what to do.

There is a lot written about it in Tantraloka or Paratrisika Vivarana but reading such massive works requires of you in-depth knowledge of Tantra and Trika Shaivism particularly.

The best you can do is experiment on your own, or just study this stuff in and out.

There is no clear path to magic of Tantra, nevertheless there is so much knowledge in there that you can always just pick one thing, practice it and see if it gets you results, tinker with it, research the traditions etc. It is a lot of work, but it's also fascinating. For me at least. Go through resources I posted and see if anything catches your eye. Moreover, I was never really interested in ritual worship, for me it was always meditation and inner works, and regarding that there is already much information in this thread.

Check out shivashakti, there are some pujas to various Goddesses, maybe you find something you want to try out, experiment with mantras, meditate on Their forms and yantras etc.

So yeah - there is no easy way to this stuff, with meditations it is easier I think - you just have the technique which you practice, and knowledge about it is more accessible than about esoteric Tantrik rites. At least for me - but I'm not into ritual magic.

If you want something ritual-oriented then maybe give Chumbley a try? It's Western but he didn't work with YHVH and he mixed Typhonian Thelema and traditional witchcraft. Dragon Book of Essex presents a step-by-step path and it's pretty much an epitome of ceremonial magic.

>>108464

I grow weary of these questions. I do what I do, if I felt a need to write about this publicly I'd create a blog.

>>108513

At your service.

Hindu mysticism is much broader than just Trika Shaivism (although I consider Trika to be the crowning achievement of all Hindu Dharma) which is, unfortunately, still quite an obscure subject despite it's relevance in the history of Tantra and Hinduism generally. Advaita Vedanta is much more popular - which comes with pros and cons. There are living masters of this tradition and there is much more materials that are easily accessible to a Western mind, but there is also much more New Age, Theosophy etc. disinformation on the subject.

Trika Shaivism seems to be almost exclusively researched by devoted scholars, but there is little down-to-earth information for practitioners. Various Shakta Tantra schools have a lot of translated texts, but little in terms of commentaries and modern instructions.

Yoga traditions are a mixed bag - speaking of classical yoga and various Tantrik offshots. Trika is also a yoga tradition but with a particular kind of yoga stemming from its metaphysics, which seems to contain much less techniques belonging to the lower path - work with chakras, prana, Kundalini etc. than hatha yoga, especially post-Goraksanath.

I know very little of dualistic traditions - Vaishnavism, Shaiva Siddhanta, Tamil Siddhas, Dvaita Vedanta… I was always more keen on non-dualism.

I'm speaking of these systems as if they were mutually exclusive, but it's not the case as later systems built on the ones that came before and incorporated their elements to their own metaphysics as much as it was possible.

Right now I'm reading a book that is exploring yoga using source materials. Really great work, especially given the widespread disinformation on the subject.

If you want to explore Eastern mysticism (especially Daoism and Chan Buddhism, but also more) then check out William Bodri and his books and the books of his master Nan Huai-Chin. Also he has many free articles here

http://www.meditationexpert.com/articles.html

The one thing I don't like about Bodri though is that sometimes he tries too hard at "spiritual syncretism" and a lot of stuff is lost in the process, so indeed he is quite an expert on Zen and Daoist cultivation, but take his words on Hindu cultivation with a pinch of salt.

>>108607

Also posting aforementioned book on yoga traditions.

>>115286

Well, I can only speak with any authority (however little that may be) on their outlook on yogic traditions. Basically - they failed to grasp in their publications what it's all about and instead they forced these traditons into their worldview, picking and choosing and throwing away whatever they didn't like in them. It's a trend that continues to this day as many contemporary occultists seem to have a hard on for Yoga and Tantra stuff, but rarely do they actually put in effort to understand it and incorporate the actual teachings into their practice instead of just scratching the surface of these multifaceted traditions. In case of Theosophy of course it is a bit different as in their times information on Hindu systems was scarce (and *reliable* information even more so), so in part it wasn't perhaps willful ignorance of the subject but the product of their times.

For example, the account presented in the book "The Chakras" by C. W. Leadbeater has barely anything to do with real chakrawork in Yoga/Tantra (since the science of chakras came into hatha yoga via Tantra I will be using these terms interchangeably). Even Woodroffe in his "Serpent Power" pointed out some gross misunderstandings in that work. Sadly, Western understanding of this fascinating topic haven't really that much progressed since then. To give more precise example - in this monograph Leadbeater states that the precise number of petals of the crown chakra is not 1000 but 960. This stems from a narrow view that the 6+1 chakra system is the only chakra system and that it is somehow set in stone for every human being. The descriptions of chakras as lotuses, each having a set number of petals is a fairly late depiction. Moreover the sources he used are themselves fairly late treatsies and not original (which means - divinely revealed) tantras. There is no set number of petals or chakras for that matter. In earliest traditions chakras were just discs. The petals etc. came later as a tool for conducting highly complex internal rituals (as in Tantra external ritual can be disposed of), so for example - Kaulajnananirnaya tantra teaches a system of 8 chakras, each having 8 petals, since this system was a template for 64 Yoginis practice (each yogini for each petal, 8x8=64). The number of petals or of chakras isn't some random fact that you need to memorize, or discover. You create them yourself for specific purpose.

Another issue I have with Theosophy is trying to make connections between Hindu Dharma and Christianity or Judaism. It would be fine if they knew their shit and really discovered some correspondances, but they didn't. They just made it up on the spot and kinda rolled with it.

So yeah, basically there is nothing wrong with Theosophy, unless you want to learn about Eastern mysticism, then there is everything wrong with Theosophy becuase all Yogic and Tantrik philosophy there is watered down and mangled. That's why I called it disinformation, because people can get all the wrong ideas about yoga and not even know they are not actually gaining any real knowledge of the system, but completely modern version of it.

I'm entering only to say that I've heard great things about the teachings of the Upanishads.

>>115311

Of course!

Om, the Word, is all this, a clear explanation of which follows: all that is past, present, and future is Om. Whatever is before the past and after the future is Om.

~Mandukya Upanishad

But then again - depends on what you are looking for. Vedanta is great, and there are many perks of pursuing Vedantic path, such as living masters of the tradition or a wealth of well researched and broadly available texts. Nevertheless I always felt something lacking in this tradition. Perhaps it is because I got into spirituality via magic, and you don't really have magic in Vedanta. It is purely spiritual and enlightenment-oriented. I was always more keen on Yoga and Tantra precisely because they are more varied. They do not reject anything, neither magic nor spirituality. Tantra doesn't view the world as mere illusion, it accepts the world. The path of Tantra leads to embodied liberation, it uses this body as a vehicle. It is very hard to practice Vedanta in day-to-day life, while a Tantrika doesn't need to be an ascetic, Tantra is a tradition for householders also, it doesn't require any vows.

Still, Upanishads are truly great, and many late upanishads carry very Tantrik ideas.

Condemn not others such as Adhyatmika. Do not perform vows. Do not establish oneself on restraint. Binding oneself is not liberation, a Kaula should not practice outwardly. One becomes equal to All. One becomes liberated.

~Kaula Upanishad

Hello, if anyone is interested in techniques presented in Vijnanabhairava then I invite you to join a free, weekly series on another practice-oriented text of Tantra, this one being a part of Krama lineage. It is conducted by Chris Wallis who is streaming and explaining each subsequent verse on his facebook page. This series has started last Friday and will continue for the next 43 weeks or so.

Here is his blogpost, containing an introduction to Krama and a brief discusson of possible relationship of Svabodhodaya-manjari (which means The Bouquet of Methods for manifesting innate Awareness) to Vijnanabhairava

https://tantrikstudies.squarespace.com/blog/2018/3/9/the-blossoming-of-your-awareness

This week's verse with explanation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhfiRhrMJTY

His fb page where he streams

https://www.facebook.com/christopher.wallis.942

Quoted from blogpost linked above:

1. By [realizing] the essencelessness of [all] entities and states of mind through a thorough investigation of [the nature of] awareness (bodha), one attains an awakeness (bodha) which gives rise to unconditioned joy. That joy is the natural state of the Self, and that is the deity I worship.

OR

1. I venerate the natural condition of our innate being, which is the joy that arises from the awakening (bodha) attained due to [realizing], through a thorough investigation of awareness (bodha), the fact that [all] entities and states of mind (bhāva) have no separate or independent existence [apart from Consciousness, which is the Self].

I'm also posting two short, introductory pdfs on Krama lineage. More detailed exposition can be found in my library.

>>117503

>>117584

>Can I ask if you're the same hinduanon who was interested in Dzogchen? That thread was invaluable and this seems extremely similar

That was me, anon. It's a pleasant surprise to hear someone enjoyed the that particular thread I made about Natural Perfection. Personally I immensely disliked that entire thread. One anon in particular was hell-bent on debating me and kept responding with massive walls of text, turning what I hoped to be a pleasant thread discussing the common idea of universal perfection across various cultures into a petty debate. I did see your post by the way and did download that text you mentioned, the Hua Hu Jing. It's on the list now of things to read one day.

Just recently I finally finished Kali Kaula as recommended by Tantrabro as an introduction to tantric Shakta, and then I also finished Mr.Snellgrove's translation of the Hevajra Tantra, a Buddhist text on the old school tantric yoga tradition of medieval India. However after finishing this I learned that he censored some of the text that he found distasteful, and so I'm reading another translation by Farrow and Menon along with the ancient commentary of a Kapalika Yogi (ash covered ascetic with the sole possesion of a Brahmana's skull used to beg for alms) on the text.

It's a fascinating study on meditation practice and yidam deity worship, and this yogi is a highly insightful character, however I'm picking up on a variety of themes in the text that he either didn't notice or feel the need to comment upon. In the chapter on mantra usage the tantra seems to degenerate into being a simple spellbook, with mantras uttered to dispel tigers, elephants, monkeys, mantras to attract or dispel women, destroy armies and so on. At first appearance it's enough to make one sneer at petty superstitions, however earlier today it struck me that the author is simply being metaphorical and providing mantras for the destruction of negative aspects of mind.

The tiger is wrath, the elephant is slothfulness, monkeys are restlessness, repelling a woman (probably) means the repelling of lust, etc. It seems obvious now in retrospect. I can't imagine that many homeless yogis in the wilderness are getting sexually assaulted by women.

Anyways from what I've seen so far, all tantric traditions are more or less just saying the same exact things. The mind itself creates reality, we ourselves are the Buddha/Shiva, etc. They all recommend deity worship as well, with the identification of oneself as the deity along with tons of symbolism and mantra usage. Of course I'm just a noob in regards to Shaiva/Shakta though. I was looking into them for a little bit, but if they're simply just different maps of the exact same territory that Buddhism covers what's the point? I'm far more familiar with Buddhism so I might as well just stick to using this particular vehicle.

>>117675

>I'm in the middle of reading through some longchenpa translations and they are well worth it

I read his Treasury of Natural Perfection a while back and 90% of it seemed mostly like Longchenpa just sperging out on the concepts of emptiness and rigpa. To be fair though I'm sure it's damn tough writing about experiences that lie far beyond the limitations of words. However there's better stuff out there though from what I've seen, stuff with actual practical value to it, not just metaphysics.

Right now I'm going through all the major texts in the Anuttarayoga Tantra collection and they're gold so far.

>>117928

>degenerate into being a simple spellbook

>petty superstitions

>mantras uttered to dispel tigers, elephants, monkeys, mantras to attract or dispel women, destroy armies and so on

I totally get where are you coming from, nevertheless I wouldn't treat mantras for specific purposes as mere superstitions, nor would I ever claim that a tantra has "degenerated" in any respect. Tantras are scriptures revealed by either the central male deity of given branch of Hindu Tantra (agamas) or the Goddess Herself (nigamas), and in the case of Buddhist tantras - celestial bodhisattvas. To disrespect tantra is to disrespect the deity (or bodhisattva) that uttered it for the benefit of mankind.

I've come across many tantras that teach "folk rituals" along with mantras for a plethora of purposes. Protection from evil spirits, creation of misfortune, creation of strife, killing enemies, curing illnesses, attraction of a husband… That kind of stuff. I have no reason to doubt this, since Tantra is a really multi-faceted tradition, that blends magic and spirituality. There are Tantrik currents more attuned to one or the other (and those in between). I have no reason to doubt the efficacy of said rituals and mantras. Someone could say that creating some squibbles out of statements about what you desire is mere superstition. Nevertheless - sigil magic works, and in fact it's one of the easiest ways to prove to oneself that magic works, if one is in a need of a proof. If we agree that you can manipulate the world around you with just your mind, why sneer at the thought of being able to manipulate it with external rituals?

Same with traditional witchcraft, with the ancient magic, with many techniques contained in greco-egyptian magical papyri, same with tantras too. These texts contain very specific, precise instructions on what you ought to do to bring about the effect that you want. Back in the times when those texts were being created the written word was much more valuable than it is now. You wouldn't just make up complex ritual injunctures if they were useless. In my opinion the point of tradition, any tradition really, is to preseve the stuff that works. Since what has come down to us from the practitioners of old was preserved for many generations - I have no reason to doubt the power of these instructions.

There are teachings for many types of people. Some might not need rituals carried out "in flesh" that is - with doing stuff on this material plane, some might suffice with purely mental rituals. In Tantrik tradition the gross was sublimated and juxtaposed with previous, more coarser rites. Does it mean though that the coarser aspects of the tradition are false? It doesn't, in my opinion. These are all different paths, for different kinds of people. Some seek siddhis, some others worldly gains, few seek enlightenment. I think it's good that the tradition provides us with an ability to choose the method and the goal.

>they're simply just different maps of the exact same territory that Buddhism covers

Yes and no. I honestly don't know, since I've never studied Buddhist Tantra to any serious degree of proficiency in it. First of all - as I mentioned - Tantra is really multi-faceted tradition and some currents are more in lieu with Buddhist notions, some are not. For the past year or so I focused my efforts on Kashmir Shaivism (name that is in fact is a bit of a misnomer but I prefer to just roll with it) and there you have very Buddhist notions, but also points on which both traditions disagree. The "founding fathers", as it were, of Trika often engaged in discussion with Buddhists and they refuted many of their notions. On the other hand I've come across opinions of people much well versed in both traditions than I am, that indeed both paths are intertwined. There are also some scriptural "proofs", such as Matsyendranatha - a prominent figure in Kaula Tantra being considered a manifestation of Avalokitesvara in Nepal or the "endorsment" of Shaivism and Vaisnava Tantrism in Manjusriyamulakalpa, which I quoted previously in this thread.

>>117970

An example of giving more esoteric meaning to external rites, from Vijnanabhairava (translation by Christopher Wallis):

The Goddess said:


If, O Lord, this is the true form of Parā, how can there be mantra or its

repetition in the [nondual] state you have taught? What would be visualized,

what worshipped and gratified? And who is there to receive offerings?

The revered Bhairava replied:

In this [higher way], O doe-eyed woman, external procedures are considered

coarse & superficial (sthūla). Here ‘japa’ is ever greater meditative absorption

(bhāvanā) into the supreme state; and similarly, here the ‘mantra’ to be

repeated is the spontaneous resonance [of self-awareness], which is the soul of

all mantras.

As for ‘meditative visualization’ (dhyāna), it is a mind that has become

motionless, free of forms, and supportless, not imagining a deity with a body,

eyes, face and so on.

Pūjā is likewise not the offering of flowers and so on. A mind made firm, that

through careful attention dissolves into the thought-free ultimate void [of

pure awareness]: that is pūjā.

When one is connected to [even] one of the practices given here, the aspect of

Bhairava called ‘nourished fullness’ (bharita) will arise and develop day by day:

it is absolute wholeness, it is contentment.

Offering the elements, the senses, and their objects, together with the mind,

into the ‘fire’ that is the abode of the Great Void, with consciousness as the

ladle: that is homa.

Sacrifice (yāga) is the gratification characterized by innate joy.


Starving (kṣap) all sins and [vowing to] save (tra) all beings, O Pārvatī, brings

about the state of Immersion in the Power of God—and such immersion

(samāveśa) is the true holy place (kṣetra), and the highest meditation.

Otherwise (i.e., without this inner realization), what worship could there be of

that Reality, and whom would it gratify?

In every way, the essence of one’s own self is simply Freedom, Joy, and

Awareness (or: awareness of the joy of one’s innate freedom). Immersion into

one’s essence-nature is here proclaimed as the true ‘purificatory bath’.

The one who is worshipped with the various substances, the libations—higher

and lower—which are poured, and the worshipper: all this is in reality One.

How, then, [can we use the term] ‘worship’?

The prāṇa goes out [on the exhale]; the life-force enters [on the inhale], and it

forms into a coiled spring [of mantric energy] by [the power of] the will. That

Great Goddess [Kuṇḍalinī] extends and lengthens [by the same power]. She is

the highest place of ‘pilgrimage’, both transcendent and immanent.

Pursuing Her until one abides within Her in the ‘sacrificial rite’ consisting of

supreme delight (mahānanda), one who is penetrated & permeated (samāviṣṭa)

by that Goddess attains supreme Bhairava, the awe-inspiring power of

consciousness.

The japa of the Goddess goes on 21,600 times in each day and night, it is taught.

This practice is easily mastered by some, but difficult to attain for those who

are dense.