/cyber/ - Cyberpunk & Science Fiction

>>52455

>I don't recall a "p2p bubble" ever bursting due to marketing hype.

Im not saying that block chain is a bubble (although bitcoin may be a bubble), I am saying various banks, etc, where exploring block chain based technologies and advertising about it to capture some of the value associated with the word.

>https://www.accenture.com/us-en/insight-blockchain-technology-how-banks-building-real-time

>https://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/28/bank-of-america-is-going-big-on-blockchain-plans-to-file-20-patents.html

>https://www.ft.com/content/0288caea-7382-11e6-bf48-b372cdb1043a

I was saying that a decentralized trust-less ledger is exactly the kind of technology that is usually not helpful to centralized actors like corporations or governments, who can exploit the trust the have in their organizational / institutional structure to operate a centralized database without protecting with hash power - they just protect by having separation of duties, backups, and ability to wreck your life if you cause them harm.

>>52445

Literally none of these require a blockchain to accomplish.

Syncing signed commits from one host, a central authority, to a network of other hosts, clients, containing the same ledger of commits accomplishes the exact same thing in each example completely without a blockchain.

>>52461

Okay, first it was give me a use case, not give me a case that no other solution except a block chain exists. Thats definitely moving the goal posts.

>Syncing signed commits from one host, a central authority, to a network of other hosts, clients, containing the same ledger of commits accomplishes the exact same thing in each example completely without a blockchain.

Except it doesn't. Because if you have a central source of truth, you are trusting the authority not to omit 'blocks'. For instance, I could post signed meeting minutes, and you simply remove them retrospectively - unless you build in a a dependency of signed data from one block to another, so that , some 'chain of blocks' is immutable without recreating a series of signatures, that grows more difficult as blocks scale.

You are effectively recreating the block chain. You might omit 'mining blocks'. And you might omit p2p architecture. Which fine, you have a semi-centralized trustless database that is a cousin of the block chain. If you want to incentivize peer replication for availability, and perhaps community trust, you might want those two features.

Again, I said in the post you responded to that your demands for decentralization and trust-lessness drive blockchain as a solution, and depending on your degree of faith in a central authority for the specific problem, you might opt not to have a blockchain, even if a block chain could fulfill the technical requirements, because a blockchain is fundamentally inefficient - its far "cheaper" (in storage, network bandwidth, hash power) to have a central authority. A blockchain isn't the only solution its a solution, depending on your degree of trust in a central authority. If you are that authority your degree of trust might be 100%, and there may never be a reason for you to use a blockchain.

>>52471

>Okay, first it was give me a use case, not give me a case that no other solution except a block chain exists

see >>52421

>>52482

schway, what are you so argumentative over? You asked for a use case. i listed a bunch and actual projects doing them. I explained trust-less-decentralized and why impact that makes on choosing a blockchain V.S. no block chain solution.

You tried to invent a way to make your database trust-less but basically end up reinventing blockchain.

Right now, its like you never read any of what I wrote, a traditional relational database is not a trust-less decentralized ledger. The literal defining question of do I use block chain or not, is :

>Do I need a decentralized, and trust-less ?

Can a centralized traditional relational database offer you a decentralized trust-less ledger? No. Attempts to force it end up reinventing the block chain, because that's what block chain does.

If you don't want to understand that don't.

Whats your ulterior motive ? If your trying to argue block chain is inefficient I conceded that above when talking about design considerations. If your trying to argue corporations using block chains are mostly hype, I conceded that. If you don't understand what a block chain is , but what to win an anonymous internet argument I can't help you.

>>52483

I simply asked for a use case that couldn't be done prior. You provided examples of people doing things with a blockchain which simply don't require a blockchain to accomplish.

… And now you're confusing something we've had for decades with "reinventing" blockchain, not understanding all blockchain does is do that same process we've already had, just ridiculously inefficiently.

>>52484

>Has anyone discovered a use for blockchain technology yet, besides cryptocurrency, that can't simply be done with a relational database?

Yes. Please implement national voting using only mysql without relying on a trusted authority or central voting server.

You asked for A use case, not the use case, not a case where it was impossible to use a relational database, you asked for A use case.

But rather than accept that an answer to a question you genuine had, its instead a challenge to an argument you didn't admit up front you wanted to have.

Your constructed solution isn't trust-less or decentralized - despite what you might think. And I pointed that out, that the administer of the central server could simply omit or remove items from the database later. How do you deal with that problem? Do you have a central server administrator with a central key, who approves and signs commits to the database, and then publishes them ? Thats a centralized solution that requires trusting the admin.

You can build a block chain on top mysql, but its not trivial. Its ridiculous to pretend that a traditional relational database has properties like a block chain.

Despite what you might think about how informed you are, blockchain like technology hasn't existed for decades, which is why a decentralized digital payment system didn't exist, and which is why there is all kinds of intrest in blockchain, and what use cases it might make sense to explore it in.

But litteraly, your so much smarter than everyone else:

> Please implement national voting using only mysql without relying on a trusted authority or central voting server.

>>52486

>Your constructed solution isn't trust-less

>the administer of the central server could simply omit or remove items from the database later.

>Thats a centralized solution that requires trusting the admin

At which point, any of the non-authorative clients with the prior commit history could point out the the change. No proof of work, global consensus, blockhain needed. Shit, it's almost exactly how CBC works, but you're doing it with PGP and SHA.

> Please implement national voting using only mysql without relying on a trusted authority or central voting server.

https://www.certificate-transparency.org/how-ct-works

Centralised and trustless. Not a mutually exclusive concept.

I'm likely giving up here.

>>52487

Dam bro, you are out of your mind , or i am. Either you are willfully ignorant of what i am saying , or i don't understand English, because I said said litterally every post

>Anywhere decentralized and Trustless Required.

And your answers keep coming back with:

>yeah i don't like that, how about centralized.

Okay! If you can trust a centralized authority to operate your system, you can do that. In many cases that's fair and accurate. I trust myself to maintain a local DNS server. Maybe its just some kind of philosophy difference and you believe everything is capable be subject to some central authority.

CBC isn't used for data integrity. Central Admin could build an entirely different branch with more 'blocks' than original branch, and while its true people could point out that admin signed a different branch, this wouldn't stop this from working at a technical level. Admin could say signatures where a mistake, key compromised, etc. If you were to do something important like have voting rights, housing titles, financial system etc. enforced technical by such a system it would be vulnerable to abuse up to the point you trust the admin. Its not trust-less.

>https://www.certificate-transparency.org/how-ct-works

Not a relational database.

I make an orgy with my phone and laptop while my I pad watches

>>52564

Well this is interesting, does away with the failure that is Proof of Work that plagues modern blockchains.

Talk by the guy who runs HackingDistributed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXrrqtFlGow

>>52564

explain why you think DNS doesn't meet all those requirements. Your flow chart doesn't contract anything I have said, but actually confirms exactly what i have said.

>>51249

furiously masturbating to teenage waifus why of course

>>51550

>old ThinkPad

https://libreboot.org/docs/hardware/c201.html

You should consider this as well.

>>52935

This is indeed an excellent hobby, but it's not a very /cyber/ hobby. Unless you fap to a teenage girl who has cybernetic implants.

>>51249

I have been rewritting portions of the C library in AMD64 assembly using linux syscalls to make an ultra-unmaintable , super minimalist, niche libc as a way to learn linux system calls and the structure of the std c library.

Its been somewhat fun.

>>52565

in blockchain, to gain control, you need to spend more brouzouf than everyone else. (on mining)

in avalanche, to gain control, you need to have more brouzouf than everyone else? (to open nodes)

Is this really okay though?

I fuck around with Hammer a lot. Or at least, I used to until the indie game dev community sucked all the fun out of level design for me.

I used to try fixing up electronics and stuff but sorta fell out of that too because I have everything I need, more-or-less. And I've learned to go without stuff. So there's not much impetus to take a soldering iron to things anymore.

Graphic design, costume and clothing design, DIY and bushcrafting, electronics repair, firearms, blacksmithing, and I'd like to get a hold of a 3D printer when I can afford one.

>>51249

DIY electronics

Hacking

Tech art

Old computers

>>54901

This sounds like someone I used to talk to a year or two ago

He was Indian and lived in the UK and was into /cyb/ shit, but had a falling out with our mutual friend.

>>54973

Have any cyb tips for clothing design? All of the software seems to be closed source and extremely restrictive, which definitely isn't cyb.

>tech-hoarding

>p2p networking

>shitposting on imageboards

>>55652

Have you considered designing stuff without the aid of a computer? It might sound un-水 but it's possible, and lots of people do it for amateur/hobby/non-mass-scale clothing design. it's also easier to test for fit/cut/etc by just putting the paper panels together and seeing if it looks decent, and you can more easily tear or fold paper than you can with fabric (at the very least, you have to iron fabric to get a nice good fold, and cutting it is usually sloppy and it's 100% always better to hem stuff properly and hide the torn edges)

>>55658

>implying ""cyberpunk"" clothing isn't all molle and tactical shit that clips/straps onto other tactical shit

im just joshing you but also i have some real concerns and would like to add on to youre points

>reuse old clothing (torn thrift store rain gear can still be cut to make new clothes)

in addition to this, taking them apart into panels will show how they come together, which is very useful to learn babbys first tailoring and eventually go into making whole garments

>use hi-tech materials (you can buy bolts of Kevlar, Mylar, gor-tex, plastic etc.)

not necessary, just tape ur seams

>lern 2 fix sewing machines

sewing machines aren't that complex but the sheer number of moving parts, all of which are cast or milled, pretty much precludes traditional fixer-upper style improvement of sewing machines. but on the other hand, your average Singer is so fucking robust that it being "broken" is usually just a matter of a replaceable part (which havent changed since like the 70s) or the thread tension being wrong, or just using shitty thread

>>55700

(I'm the first person you replied to)

I'll honestly have to try that. I've always liked clothing design aesthetically and have planned out designs I'd like on the net, but I've never actually tried sewing something or reverse engineered existing garments. Now that you mention it, it seems like a great idea.

Thanks for the inspiration anon.

>>54973

A /fa/ggot in the wild, I never thought I'd see the day.

>>55727

tbh my lad if you're actually interested in sewing or tailoring and have not yet at least examined normal clothing, you're a fucking poseur cunt

im guessing your "designs" are just ripoffs of ubisoft protagonist character designs, and not actual garment patterns

>>55754

ur cynical bro its a cyberpunk board

>>55754

Lmao what. I enjoy aesthetics more than making random retarded looking clothing, so my focus had been on color palettes, designs, etc. more than making some ugly "look at me I'm a fashion design student" garments.

Apologies for the fact that we focus on different aspects of clothing, I guess? You appear to think yours is superior.

>>55651

It sucks when bridges are burnt in ways beyond your control

>>54967

Take on electrical challenges for the sake of challenging yourself,and if you really have to choose projects pragmatically then maybe try repair things for online resale, making the hobby sustainable

>>55658

screencapped

>>55763

>Lmao what. I enjoy aesthetics

Do you enjoy tailoring –as in, the act of Creating A Garment or Causing A Garment to Fit– or do you just like looking at pretty outfits?

>we focus on different aspects of clothing

Patterns, as in clothing patterns, are clothing. A pattern is the prototype of something that is to be worn. If you don't care about such measurements, you don't care about clothing. Clothing, and really most of sewing, is all about how flat panels of fabric come together to make something that could and should be worn, whether it's a flowing dress for some man's halloween costume or a tight canvas wrapping for a crate of cryptographic equipment.

To say you care about "aesthetics" over anything else is worse than meaningless; it shows that you don't even care enough to care that you only care about meaningless things. What is "aesthetics"? Do you mean you care about form-fitting? Do you care about comfort? Do you care about cost or value? Do you prefer some types of cut or fit over others for any good reason? Or do you just fantasize about looking like you're straight out of Ghost In The Shell or Watch_Dogs? You've thrown out a garbage phrase that says nothing relevant to the craft. You are a poseur cunt who hasn't even tried to be otherwise.

>>55794

Wow, that sounds really gay.

>>55795

Yeah he totally is flexing/overthinking it, I mean >>55700 is agreeing with and building upon >>55658, which is possibly the most pragmatic post ITT

>>55825

>3 laptops

>2 desktops

>2 tablets

and I have another desktop and 2 laptops not currently in use.

I run linux on most of them except for the one that runs windows that I use for school.

I should probably get rid of some of this junk…

I'm music producer. Despite this - survival, preppering and literature. I would like to move to smaller, not so crowded city when i could live quite and calm live.

>>51429

>Q-Larp

>>56667

Well this is a larp board, so…

>>56675

larp is good

>>56677

It's retarded.

Mushroom farming. Oyster mushrooms are capable of converting newspapers and cardboard pulled off of the street into food. Hell, they can break down fucking motor oil. Growing your own food from the junk of a wasteful civilization is very cyberpunk, especially if you use advanced techniques to control co2 and oxygen levels, light, water, etc.

>>51428

>HAM radio

patrician taste.

>>56860

水水水 chummer. I am potentially intrested. How do the mushrooms taste? it is probably not sanitary to grow from trash though. What do you eat with them?

>>56860

>Mushroom farming. Oyster mushrooms are capable of converting newspapers and cardboard pulled off of the street into food. Hell, they can break down fucking motor oil. Growing your own food from the junk of a wasteful civilization is very cyberpunk, especially if you use advanced techniques to control co2 and oxygen levels, light, water, etc.

I don't know man. Plants in general are capable of converting dirt into food.

>>56860

You could make some serious brouzouf if you got some psilocybe cubensis spores and grew those on some rice or what have you. The investment would be almost nothing and people will spend enormous amounts of brouzouf on them. Unfortunately you'd need a large network to make it viable for a long time as most users only take it sporadically. The chance of LE involvement is near zero considering that mushrooms are never a priority.

>>56930

Just sell it on some darknet markets.

>>55825

I only have 2 laptops currently in use (one for watching anime in bed, one for actually taking out of the house).

But I have a home server setup, a desktop running OpenBSD, a desktop running Artix, and currently waiting for the Raptor Blackbird arriving to have a third desktop, though not so sure what I'm running on it. Probably will end up being some homelab setup for testing/learning sysadmin stuff.

>>56947

I am sure this all sounded pretty 水 to you, but spending thousands on a workstation you dont know what you will do with is ill advised. Sys admin stuff on a.work station with an obscure arch doesn't make much sense - 1 you should probably be doing work on a server via ssh from any laptop and 2 you probably want that server to use a common arch while training so you know issues you encounter are your own doing not bugs in an experimental arch. That talos is an expensive ssh terminal or an untested, obscure server either way not prime training material.

All that said Talos is 水水水. And i am glad someone is buying them. We needmore machined like this.