No.48186
this board is
s l o w
So I created this
e n j o y
or dont, I don't care
hs
____________________________
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No.48195
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No.48198
That's schway as hell, anon.
Good work!
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No.48199
After taking a look at your work (I guess) , I was wondering if cyberpunks magazines exist?
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No.48200
> bashes on capitalism
> literally describes capitalism:
>> As for how they would stop you from participating in
something similar to capitalism, it would most likely be
by denying you access to the available resources and os-
tracizing you from the community. But as long as your
trade wasn’t exploitative, I doubt anyone would mind. I
figure trade isn’t going away.
This essentially describes free trade + a system of law + community enforcement of law.
You know what is the biggest blocker of a post-scarcity society? Governments. They would be the biggest losers. What role does government and its supporting bureaucracy play in a post-scarcity society? None. Governments are societies in themselves, societies that self-blessed themselves with the ability to use violence and coercion, and like every society they were living organisms that will seek to prolong their "lives". This is the reason why governments are doing their best to control every new thing that comes out (internet, crypto, bittorrent, cryptocurrencies, etc.).
How does this all relate to capitalism? It's not luck that the most oppressive governments are the least capitalistic. Yes, the US is far from perfect and the NSA listens to everything you do, but the less capitalism you have, the more regulated your internet is. Going from west to east: the UK, Germany, UAE, Russia, China are all less and less capitalistic and regulate the internet more and more.
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No.48202
>>48200
Exactly, many people seem to just blame all the stuff that's wrong with governments on capitalism. IMO capitalism has its flaws (just like any other system), but it's theoretically the most "liberal" system. And that wouldn't really fit well with socialism, because even in theory, you have to be bound with the society in some way (for the sake of the society).
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No.48203
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No.48206
>>48200
<Corporations are societies in themselves, societies that self-blessed themselves with the ability to use violence and coercion, and like every society they were living organisms that will seek to prolong their "lives".
>but the less capitalism you have, the more regulated your internet is.
Except that's completely wrong in every way. Economics and Government are two separate systems that structure a nation and society, the regulation that come from it isn't simply reliant on if there is stronger government or weaker government, but what benefits both those systems. Less government regulations on corporate doesn't necessarily free the Internet, it will only open new opportunities to profit off of Internet service.
>Going from west to east: the UK, Germany, UAE, Russia, China are all less and less capitalistic and regulate the internet more and more.
Wrong, regulations differ from each of these nations but business is still about as profitable and lucrative in each of these nations, the only different is how regulations come down on speech, what can be sold and so on. Capitalism isn't about how free an individual is, it's about production for profit/capital. You might be jailed for getting caught for trying to pass china's great firewall, but they'll still have a greater number of billionaires than the united states.
You are not wrong in the critic of governments, but do not dismiss that Capitalism isn't at fault of the Internet's decline in freedom.
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No.48207
>>48203
Thank you.
/cyber/ should do the same thing
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No.48208
>>48202
>>48200
>less capitalism
Capitalism, as defined from the point of production is not a scale. You are either living under capitalism or you are not. The countries you list are each capitalist countries because they all exhibit the usual components of the system. That is Private ownership and enforced property rights, Production of commodities for exchange in a market system and wage labour.
When people blame capitalism for an unfree inernet or whathaveyou, they are usually referring to this definition of capitalism, the one defined by the likes of Adam Smith, Marx and Keynes among others. They are not referring to the currently unexisting systems described by defenders of free-markets.
Governments in these capitalist countries exist to protect property rights of corporations. If you are a starving homeless person on the streets, and in order to survive you have been stealing bread from a multinational chain of convienience stores, they will call the police, who will take you at gunpoint and lock you up. Even if the bread is rotting, if you work at the store or if you baked the bread in the back, the result is the same. The product of your labour is not yours, it is the store's. Without the government performing its role there would be nothing stopping people from the needy from just taking what they want.
The only method to maintain a free internet as well as comfortable living conditions for a majority of people is to us a democratic government and trade unions/labour organisation to limit coporate power, then using the a strong,m direct democracy itself to limit the powers of the ruling bureaucracy.
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No.48209
>>48202
My thoughts exactly. Capitalism is far from perfect but it's the best system that gives the most people the most freedom. It's attacked from one direction by government's wanting more power, from corporations wanting more… Power (sic), and from dirty socialists (you guessed it) wanting more power.
>>48206
They're both tied very closely together. The government regulates the degree to which markets are free by regulation just because they hold the guns due to history. Corporations would not be able to get away with all that they do without the government's protection. Just look at intuit blocking tax reform through the government. Big government leads to more regulation and more winners-vs-losers. I honestly would love a more anarchaic society, but that kind of society it too utopian - the safeguards built into capitalism rely on basic human values: greed, safety, work, curiosity, innovation etc.
We already know that any non-free-market society (Cuba, Cambodia, ussr + satellites, venezuela, etc) does not support freedom of speech. Freedom.of speech and thought is anathema to Central planning, mercantilism, and feudalism. Freedom of speech is a necessity for capitalism.
Good discussion.
>>48208
> trade unions/labour organisation
Ah yes, and if I, a we'll of kulak, don't join your union/Soviet? What will you do? Purge me?
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No.48210
>>48209
Do you know what a trade union is?
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No.48211
>>48208
Mind that the product of your labour is not yours, because you have agreed to such terms before baking the bread. From what I understand, socialism enforces the idea of "the product of your labour is yours" while capitalism allows it, that's why I said it gives the most (potential) "freedom".
In my view, if you had the "perfected" capitalism and got rid of the government, people would start to create a hierachy of "governments" thus increasing the decentralization a lot. Those "governments" would be different from our though, they would be formed out of need, not some magical view that governments need to exist. In fact in some places people might want not to form governments. Anyway, that's just my wild thought.
We should all remember though, that it is not socialism or capitalism that matters, the greatest enemy is the authority.
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No.48212
>>48209
>Freedom.of speech and thought is anathema to Central planning, mercantilism, and feudalism. Freedom of speech is a necessity for capitalism.
Incorrect, the united states has been limiting Freedom of Speech and limited the ability to form assembly for the past decade yet stocks are doing well. The Chinese have plenty of restrictions on their population yet their industrial output and the amount of business going through China is fantastic.
>Ah yes, and if I, a we'll of kulak, don't join your union/Soviet? What will you do? Purge me?
Trade Union is for job security and either maintaining or improving worker conditions. Without Unions there would have never been a minimum wage or safety standards in a work place. Would you rather your boss give you no break and fire you whenever he wanted or do you want an organization of other workers like you backing you up when the boss wants to cut your hours?
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No.48220
c y b e r has some good content, it's not hard to put it in a nice format.
C o n t e n t here is slow generating though so it won't be consistent. Glad it sparked some debate.
Those defending capitalism seem out of place here. C a p i t a l i s t societies are the norm but likely not the best outcome. Technocracy and automation will overturn capitalist endeavours through a revolution in the product-labour equation.
E x p l o i t a t i o n of, and by future technological processes will render 'free' markets useless due to mass influence of the populace. Advertising on steroids is in our future. Free will can be catastrophically overwritten like writing white noise to your burn drive.
Decentralised technology that is not owned by anyone is the only way to r e s t r i c t opportunity for further class based oppression. Proof of stake, distributed computing is the future.
hs
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No.48263
>>48195
>our graphics designer quit
>there will be no more issues
>there're 20 articles, and we will let them gather dust
Whew boy, looks like that graphics designer was doing everything over there, and everyone else was an idea guy.
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No.48265
>>48199
I think the text part is pasta from /cyber/. At minimum I recognize the infosec part because I posted it
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No.48266
>>48265
I've finished reading them all and I have a feeling of being tricked; like 50% of what I read was bullshit, am I right ?
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No.48276
>>48266
i mean, we ARE on a punk board.
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No.48277
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No.48279
>>48265
it is a collection of posts from c y b e r that I found interesting
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No.50648
Why not >>>/polmedia/ this stuff and get it rolling?
>>48206
>Less government regulations on corporate doesn't necessarily free the Internet
It depends on the logic of the remaining regulations, but when people say "less" they meant "less red tape".
America will such no matter there is net neutrality or not, since it does not address "right-to-HAM-WIFI".
That is to say you have no right to create your own network either way, for free or as a venture.
And naturally "no red tape" leads to anarchy, libertarianism is merely a weakened version of anarchy.
>Capitalism isn't about how free an individual is, it's about production for profit/capital
The freedom for individuals to create profit. And profits can be used to create new forms of freedom.
One is not entitled to freedom, but instead has to earn it through labor and personal struggle.
>>48208
>The only method to maintain a free internet as well as comfortable living conditions for a majority of people is to us a democratic government and trade unions/labour organisation to limit coporate power, then using the a strong,m direct democracy itself to limit the powers of the ruling bureaucracy.
Wrong, instead government should be forbidden to tamper with the free market, thus limiting corporate power.
The people shall have their own will to establish better internet and living conditions.
Trade unions leads to fascism by majority, and it is the same as corporations, both made by people.
Freedom of speech only exists when the minority have the right to speak.
>>48212
>Without Unions there would have never been a minimum wage or safety standards in a work place
Minimum Wage and UBI causes inflation, which damages the economy. Work what you own.
Safety standards are initiated by companies that wants better yield and attract more workers.
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No.50649
>>48220
>Technocracy and automation will overturn capitalist endeavours through a revolution in the product-labour equation
But then we will return to the fascist "eternal return", where tradition that is needed for survival is merged with tech.
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No.50660
>>50648
First of all, quit suggesting /cyber/ and /pol/ are closely related in every single thread you can find.
It's not true, your opinion is not everyone else's nor does it have to be. Additionally, it's fucking annoying.
Second, a limit to corporate power doesn't require gubmints to stay out of the market entirely. Forbidding lobbyism the way it exists today (as legal bribery) and cracking down on corps using lawsuits to bleed competition dry would be enough.
Have to agree on UBI and minwage to have a negative impact on economy though.
>Safety standards are initiated by companies that wants better yield and attract more workers.
They don't want to attract workers by safety standards. Megacorps outsource whatever they can to chinks who make no effort to earn well and be safe on the job.
If they require a highly-qualified worker and can't find one who's complacent with terrible conditions, that's a necessary evil to them. I don't know whom you work for, but chances are they'd replace you without batting an eye if they didn't need you.
The only way to keep the corps in check as a worker is to make yourself indespensable.
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No.50700
>>50660
>quit suggesting /cyber/ and /pol/ are closely related in every single thread you can find
Then leave 8chan entirely, either you are new and don't know GG or you are just baiting, it is how we came to be as a platform
>Forbidding lobbyism
Which is what staying out of the market is about, if gov can't touch the market, then lobbying can't exist.
If the government can touch the market but "corporate lobbying" can't, they can just buy out trade unions.
>cracking down on corps using lawsuits to bleed competition dry
Which is the essence of free-market. Governments declaring no company has entitlements IS free-market.
Let contract law and natural competition do the rest of the work.
>Megacorps outsource whatever they can to chinks
Then they suffer in quality, otherwise
>The only way to keep the corps in check as a worker is to make yourself indespensable
Just like you said. You are not what you think you worth, you are worth what others think you worth.
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No.50701
>>50700
Yeah yeah, the old drokk of calling anyone who disagrees newfag.
I'm calling bullshit on /cyber/ somehow being dependent on /pol/, been here for about 3 years and you're the only shazbot implying that /cyber/ equals /pol/ in my time.
>inb4 le newfag
>let natural competition do the rest
Kek. Corps sue or buy out competitors.
>they suffer in quality
Drones don't care about quality. They care about price or branding. Apple's been successfully fucking over customers by selling cheap shit for large sums.
>worth what others think you're worth
That's why you check what your employer needs and make yourself indispensable.
Loving the "leave 8chan entirely" part though. At what point did I suggest that you have ANY authority over me? Look, kid, I'm gonna pretend I'm trembling in front of your 4th Reich, okay?
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No.50702
>>50700
the fuck are you talking about, I been here since the beginning, you didn't shape jack shit.
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No.50703
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No.50707
capitalism and trade is not necessarily bad but our current capitalist system is based on infinite growth of the economy so the brouzouf lent by banks can be payed back with interest. It extracts value from the work of everyone who uses brouzouf and naturally rewards short term profit maximization and long term consolidation of power and capital.
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No.50709
>>50701
Have you been here since Gamergate then? Have you witness the evolution of people going from games and comics to full on political realization? From GG to Comicgate to HWNDU to Presidency to Media censorship to IOTBW, it all happened on 8chan. /pol/ is the lifeblood of 8chan. Otherwise, 4chan/g/ is a better place for you.
>Corps sue or buy out competitors
Forbid corporate entitlements. Disallow them to sue over tech patents, and only allow suing over contract law.
>Drones don't care about quality. They care about price or branding.
Which one infers the other, the only reason people cares more about Apple because its "brand" is controlled by left-wing propaganda. Strip that away and you might as well get a Thinkpad. Crush the libs and utility will become front and center.
>That's why you check what your employer needs and make yourself indispensable
Exactly.
>I'm gonna pretend I'm trembling in front of your 4th Reich
No, I will stay, so are you (I guess). But do not expect that you know everything. Also to >>50702 tell me, which board takes top priority in 8chan's list?
>>50703
Not even white.
>>50707
Nuke Fiat. Let shitcoins die. That is all.
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No.57868
Was browsing some of the older threads and stumbled upon this one. Is anything like this still around or did zines die 4 years ago?
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No.57869
>>57868
I'd like to know too. Zines became a rarity these days. I found an info-sec zine thats not dead, have a link
https://pagedout.institute/
They are currently working on Issue #3.
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No.57871
>>57869
Fucking 水, thanks anon. There was some talk about doing something like this on this board a while back, but it never seemed to get off the ground. Maybe trying it again could inject some life back into this board like the /cyber/ SCP thread did last year before the site was derezzed.
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No.57884
>>48220
why do you write like a retard?
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No.57886
>>57871
It would be worth a try, it'd really be awesome if we had something like a zine. But considering how slow this board is…
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No.57909
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No.57910
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