a272f8 No.8818
I have watched just about everything Jordan Peterson has put out, and while I think he does some epistemological sleights of hand, I wouldn't mind learning about morality from christians in person. But why does this God thing have to divide us?
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022f46 No.8823
>Why does this God thing have to divide us?
Because the Bible says if you don't repent, you will perish.
Do you believe in objective morality?
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a272f8 No.8830
>>8823
>Because the Bible says if you don't repent, you will perish.
But we are all going to die (perish) no matter what.
>Do you believe in objective morality?
This phrasing is vague to me. I think some prescribed ethics (morals) are objectively good for us.
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022f46 No.8835
>>8830
There is a second death according to the Bible
>This phrasing is vague to me. I think some prescribed ethics (morals) are objectively good for us.
I mean to ask you if you believe that an objective set of moral truths exist
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9a1b29 No.8845
>But why does this God thing have to divide us?
Because if Christianity is an absolute truth, that automatically means all other religions are false and paths to Hell.
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346e6c No.8848
>>8845
Narrow is the path to glory, wide is the path to destruction. You can't have 2+2 = 4 and 2+2 = 5 and say it doesn't matter.
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9a1b29 No.8849
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a272f8 No.8882
>>8835
When people die, their memory lives on in the minds of those who are left behind. A second death would entail suppressing the legacy of the deceased.
>I mean to ask you if you believe that an objective set of moral truths exist
The platonic view of abstract truths, is that they are discovered, as opposed to constructed. Mathematics is a mixture of the two, so it would stand to reason that moral laws are a mixture as well.
>Because if Christianity is an absolute truth, that automatically means all other religions are false and paths to Hell.
This black and white thinking strikes me as juvenile.
>Narrow is the path to glory, wide is the path to destruction. You can't have 2+2 = 4 and 2+2 = 5 and say it doesn't matter.
This is supreme bullshit. There is a sense in which 2+2 = 1(mod 3) though, but then the equality is substituted by a congruence.
Maybe I was wrong in thinking there's wisdom to be found in the religious population.
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022f46 No.8903
>>8882
>The platonic view of abstract truths, is that they are discovered, as opposed to constructed.
Okay.. and is that the view you hold?
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cc39be No.8908
>>8882
To be remembered by God through communion is eternal. To sever that communal link is to suffer the final death.
The eternal law, which is truly objective and not constructed of men, is the only Law that ultimately matters and obeying the inferior laws over the superior is sinful.
"Often it is said that all religions are fundamentally the same and superficially different when it is just the opposite." Name any religion and it can be easily explained why it's conclusion is fundamentally different than the conclusion of Christianity and, therefore, why that particular religion is a pathway to Hell. This does not mean all the worshippers of that religion go to Hell, they can be saved despite the religion (unlikely, but possible), but that the religion ultimately points away from God.
I am not a mathematician, but your counter-argument to 2 + 2 = 4 doesn't make sense. 2 + 2 /= 1%3. 1%3 isn't a special form of mathematics, it's just an operation that finds the remainder of a division. In this case 1%3 = 1. If both sides of the equation are operating within the same numbering method, 2+2 /= 1%3. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Regardless of the example, you know exactly what he meant. It's far from the best analogy. More like the principals of physics. Something intrinsically known and as a principal is constant (exists regardless of our understanding) and yet is not fully known in the widely known model.
Another analogy; the difference between an atheists morality and a theists morality is similar to the difference between imperial and metric measurement. Both understandings are limited by human intelligence, but the imperial unit is far more arbitrary and relative compared to the metric system which is based on constants.
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a272f8 No.8921
>>8903
No, that's only part of the story, as far as I am concerned.
>>8908
I think I get what you're saying about a system being better than no system. But how come christians treat atheists as if they are incapable of living by a moral system? I know I am living life the same way as christians do, even though I disagree with the mainline interpretation, of what constitutes the absolute authority christians cherish so much.
>To be remembered by God through communion is eternal. To sever that communal link is to suffer the final death.
In my estimation, the community itself is the higher power (God), and if said community choses to wipe out the memory of an undesirable member, it does not exactly inspire confidence.
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dc2fed No.8922
>>8921
> the community itself is the higher power
t. communist
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867bfb No.8935
>>8921
>In my estimation, the community itself is the higher power (God)
You should take an introductory ethics class and learn why moral relativism is a dead end.
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022f46 No.8939
>>8921
>how come christians treat atheists as if they are incapable of living by a moral system?
Most atheists deny the existence of a moral system
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a272f8 No.8941
>>8922
>t. communist
Ha, I was once called that by a Russian expat.
>>8935
You're welcome to do a cliff's notes version, because I don't consider it moral relativism. I consider it a pragmatic application of a stale moral framework.
>>8939
Which may be why we are drowning in pedantic laws, much like the Russians were.
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022f46 No.8944
>>8941
Are you a relativist, an objectivist, or a nihilist?
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a272f8 No.8946
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022f46 No.8947
>>8946
Relativism is the stance that morality is subjective. Two separate stances are simultaneously true.
This is formally illogical, it breaks the law of non contradiction.
Objectivism is the stance that there are an objective set of moral truths.
Nihilism is the stance that there are no moral truths.
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a272f8 No.8948
>>8947
I consider some morality to be subjective. This allows for denominations to develop. For reference; I am from an area of the world where there's a lot of protestant sects.
>>8830
Was kind of answered here. My understanding is that Objectivism favours rational individualism, which I am comfortable with. However, I'd prefer the operative unit to be the family, not the individual. Otherwise it seems ok.
I grew up with Nihilism, and I think it's unfulfilling, even destructive. I prefer a constructive approach to life.
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022f46 No.8950
>>8948
>I consider some morality to be subjective. This allows for denominations to develop.
No, that's not how it works. Moral relativism is not a necessary condition for denominationalism, it's even opposed to the doctrines of the Reformation. Churches schism because two sides in a debate each believe their view is right at the exclusion of the other.
>Was kind of answered here. My understanding is that Objectivism favours rational individualism, which I am comfortable with. However, I'd prefer the operative unit to be the family, not the individual. Otherwise it seems ok.
Whichever system is arguably preferable for society has no effect on it's truthfulness
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a272f8 No.8951
>>8950
>No, that's not how it works. Moral relativism is not a necessary condition for denominationalism, it's even opposed to the doctrines of the Reformation. Churches schism because two sides in a debate each believe their view is right at the exclusion of the other.
Much like our disagreement on the details of the supreme authority otherwise known as God.
>Whichever system is arguably preferable for society has no effect on it's truthfulness
I am more concerned with its effectiveness. If I have to tell a (white) lie to my kids in order for them to behave, then I lose credibility and authority, when my lie does not stand up to scrutiny.
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