2b4fd5 No.7148
Can some of them be considered Christians who are just trapped in a counterfeit deception and ignorant of their mistake, or should we to be safe assume all of them are agents of deception and confusion until proven innocent?
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beebbd No.7152
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1607f5 No.7163
Catholics are Christan in the cultural sense. Catholics are not saved if they believe the Catholic false gospel, but there's still the possibility any person calling himself a Roman Catholic believes the biblical gospel in spite of his Roman Catholicism.
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52d706 No.7164
I used to be catholic, but recently got away from the church. It's amazing how much my faith has grown since then, and how much I've been able to feel the Holy Spirit at work in my life.
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4f6230 No.7185
This >>7163
>>7164
Stay blessed anon. read your bible prayerfully, be willing to unlearn the smog of tradition which can clog your mind.
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3f722a No.7209
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
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f41463 No.7217
Yes, it's possible. In America, lots of nominal Catholics are neither real Catholics nor real Christians–they follow neither what their church says nor what the Bible says. Almost nobody takes the RCC's doctrines seriously here. It's a profound mistake to identify the official positions of Rome with what Catholics actually believe. In most cases, they're just generic moralistic therapeutic deists, but in some cases they're actual Christians, because they never bothered to go to church outside of Christmas/Easter or through catechism but they did read the Bible.
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1607f5 No.7219
>>7209
>There is no group of people in the Roman Catholic system more tragic and more desperate than priests of all kinds and any kind; because it has been imposed upon them that they should live their lives in unnatural restraint. That they should live their lives in a forced celibacy, which leads to horrible sexual perversion and deviation and smitten and stricken consciences and all kinds of tragedy.
>While this happens in the world it, ith appens more under the horrors of this forced kind of celibacy that came in the 1100s; when the Bishop of Rome wanted to stop the accumulating wealth of priestly families. So he came up with the celibacy of the priesthood, confiscated all their properties, all their possessions, and if you have no children you can pass on no wealth. So he broke the back of those wealthy families. it certainly had no biblical purpose.
Bless this man.
The Roman doctrine of priestly celibacy is nothing more than an ancient power grab with a fabricated justification.
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15cad7 No.7222
>>7219
Scripture (and the Church) teaches that celibacy is superior to the married state. What these people are arguing here is to undermine the tenets and foundations of the Church for some nebulous notion of posterity. This isn't far removed from the "progress without principle" ethos of your average neo-liberal. Christianity is not a mere cultural institution, it is an ideal and it is a path of transcendence for those that reject the zero sum game of earthly material existence. The Gospel should not be compromised to accommodate mundane convictions. What most people don't understand about canon law is that any minister, priest or deacon, married or not, is called to clerical continence (that means no sex at all). I believe when the married diaconate was re-allowed back in the middle of the 20th century, deacons were encouraged to be older since there would be no touchy-touchy with the wife. Wives needed to give their consent to this too. The Catholic Church is not Eastern Orthodoxy and there is no reason we should ape their practices. The Eastern Catholics are very similar to Eastern Orthodoxy in that they are structured around ethnic groups, the liturgy is in that ethnic group's language and the majority of the congregation is of that ethnicity. There is far more trust there. The last thing the Church needs to do right now is give in to the modern idea that sex is paramount. There is also the issue that many parishes are in debt and can barely afford to run themselves, much less support the priest's family. It also prevents dilettantish curate-types from becoming priests, which appears to be on balance a good thing. If you want to look at why the protestant denominations have become so trashy and diluted, this looks like just another point. The priesthood is regarded as an incredibly serious vocation. It's not to be divided among other pursuits; a priest with a wife is as self-contradictory as a priest running a Fortune 500 company or hosting a talk show. It has always been a vocation for men willing to devote themselves to it completely. The progression of gays through the ranks, in my opinion, had little to do with the marriage prohibition, and is a fairly recent trend that picked up speed with the dissolving of moral restraint mid-century. The decline in men pursuing the priesthood had more to do with changes in family structure, the centrality of religious life, and the rise of consumerism and mass society. If the marriage prohibition didn't cause it, then abolishing the prohibition won't fix it. The Catholic abuse scandals are not a scathing indictment of a certain group of people (secular/other religious institutions have similar rates of abuse, rather, it's a sign of the times.
1 Cor 7
Mat 19:11-12
The Church Fathers clearly teach that celibacy is superior to marriage.
Most Evangelicals have convinced their flocks that the Jews are the chosen race and their superiors. The mainline Protestant churches are used to assimilate people into subversive projects like feminism (female clergy/birth control/even abortion) and sexual deviancy (all the main branches are pro-sodomite marriage/"gender" manipulation). The history of Protestantism is a joke. Protestantism, which puts the individual so much to the forefront in man's relationship with God, naturally leads to the moralistic therapeutic deism. So who follows the Bible, really? Andersonites? The people who claim that portrayals of Jesus are idolatry and that the Apostles wrote the TR? For the Protestant, everything about communal religious life is negotiable. Liturgy exists, but is negotiable. Communion is a symbol, not a reality - at these "churches", the words of institution always include something about "wine or grape juice and gluten-free bread" - the further Protestantism gets from its roots, the more any sense liturgy decays. The earliest Protestant denominations are the most liturgical, with the "most branched off" sects being much more sermon-centered. In Protestantism, nothing really matters except what goes on between you and God. The Protestant devotion to the Bible as indispensable is good, but has only delayed the inevitable slide for a few centuries. Today the lack of concreteness about Christ and God seems more or less universal across Protestant denominations, even the conservative ones.
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f6b80e No.7225
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1607f5 No.7226
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b32f9f No.7233
Catholics are not christians
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beebbd No.7234
>>7233
Yes they are, why don't you go back to jesus-is-savior.com
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970500 No.7237
>>7234
Then why do they hate the bible?
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3fb6a1 No.7271
>>7237
The same reasons prots don't hate Mary.
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e99d02 No.11937
>>7148
I'd say if they believe in stuff that catholic church teaches, which are in opposition to Bible, I'd say they are not christians.
Sola scriptura ftw>>7148
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bde448 No.12002
>>7237
Catholics absolutely love the Bible, it is the protestants who arbitrarily removed multiple books from scripture
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61004c No.12004
>>12002
Stale meme
The disputed books weren't canonized in the RCC until trent
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bde448 No.12006
>>12004
That the council of Trient reaffirmed the canonicity of the deuterocanonical books in face of the rejection of the canonicity of them
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61004c No.12007
>>12006
How do you figure that the church at large accepted the apocryphal books before the reformation? The fathers didn't, the Jewish tradition didn't either.
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1ff781 No.12013
>>7148
Most Catholics have no clue about what their church teaches, most catholics are practically protestants anyway.
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a5088e No.12020
>>12007
The Jews also don’t accept the gospels as canonical either, but I assume most Protestants don’t go running to their local synagogue to appeal to Jewish authority on that particular point.
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e7dc0d No.12024
>>12020
Irrelevant because we're debating Hebrew books
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f28e84 No.12028
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>12007
The Fathers ABSOLUTELY accepted what you call 'Apocrypha' particularly books like the Wisdom of Solomon, Tobit, etc. Why does that mean anything to you anyways? They're apostates according to your gospel.
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0ada9d No.12032
>>12030
>Vulgate
Weird you'd think priests in the RCC would have read that
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3bfb43 No.12033
For anyone that ends up watching this >>12028
Josiah Trenham is a covenant-breaker. He was an ordained pastor in the PCA and studied at Westminster Theological Seminary. He converted to Eastern Orthodoxy for marriage and not for theological reasons.
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bde448 No.12039
>>12024
Not irrelevant at all since Jews have no authority over the Old Testament books either
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f28e84 No.12040
>>12029
Athanasius also said that the Virgin Mary was more glorious than the Seraphim/Cherubim. He was actually connected to the historical Church, not your sect. He also taught the essence/energy distinction. https://web.archive.org/web/20030414125736/http://chrysostomosca.tripod.com/athanasius_creation.html
>>12030
Basil and so many others quote them as Scripture. You are caught in dialectics.
>"Let me tell you what you believe"
Galatians 1:8 tells you that preachers of a false gospel are accursed. The Fathers do not teach the Solas, go ahead and quote mine as much as you want (same thing Papists do)... I encourage you to go to new advent and actually read what they teach.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3202234.htm
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