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/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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File: 4a4754e79f8cf3e⋯.png (609.35 KB,568x454,284:227,Untitled.png)

fd524b No.856328

>“The dogma that all the governments of the world are approvingly ordained of God, and that the powers that be in the United States, in Russia, in Turkey, are in accordance with his will, is no less absurd than impious. It makes the impartial Author of our existence unequal and tyrannical. It cannot be affirmed that the powers that be in any nation are actuated by the spirit or guided by the example of Christ in the treatment of enemies; therefore they cannot be agreeable to the will of God, and therefore their overthrow by a spiritual regeneration of their subjects is inevitable.

>Romans 13:1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which is from God. The authorities that exist have been appointed by God. 2Consequently, whoever resists authority is opposing what God has set in place, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

>3For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the one in authority? Then do what is right, and you will have his approval. 4For he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not carry the sword in vain. He is God’s servant, an agent of retribution to the wrongdoer.

>5Therefore it is necessary to submit to authority, not only to avoid punishment, but also as a matter of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes. For the authorities are God’s servants, who devote themselves to their work. 7Pay everyone what you owe him: taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due.

>Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.

Now obviously Tolstoy is going against scripture by saying that the governments of the world are not ordained by God, but is he right? In Biblical times the Roman government was not only pagan but viciously anti-christian. The governments of toady are also anti-chrisian legalizing gay marriage to appeal to secular liberals. So i believe that there is some truth to the governments not being ordained by God. Does this contradict scripture? How can the governments be ordained by God and still go against his word?

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c7a89a No.856330

>Romans 13:1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. 6For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. 7Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

Here is the KJV of Romans 13, it actually says that the powers are ordained by God

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fa5f92 No.856334

>>856328

Paul himself had his head chopped off by the very same government of Rome. Countless Christians like him were tortured, raped, enslaved, and executed by it. None of this is ordained by God. Jesus was executed by a conglomerate of Pilate, Herod, and Caiaphas the High Priest. Just because they were rulers at the time doesn't mean that they magically escaped damnation. People need to stop abusing these texts as a wholesale approval of governments. Paul is talking about a general sense of lawfulness and order and to be inconspicuous. And the only to reason to be lawful and a good citizen is because Christians already have a superior law. Not because the State said it. The State is irrelevant. This is putting the cart before the horse. A Christian already knows how to be lawful from a better source, written on their hearts. We are citizens of the Kingdom of Christ. There is no better "State" than this. Every other State is a mere vassal to God, the true King of the universe, whether they realize it yet or not. And most of the time, when serving our King, that means you'll be a good citizen of any given country. A true citizen of Christ's kingdom won't be stealing or murdering or raping or cheating others. But when that country tries to usurp God and ignore his rule, Christians must break away and try to correct them. You can not serve Caesar and Christ. You can not proclaim Christ as Lord and God, and then the next moment bend the knee to an Emperor Nero or Domitian who also demands that you call them Lord and God.

You can not uphold faith in Christ, and then the next day promote rampant degeneracy and sodomy and transsexualism that the US demands, for example. Let alone force your children into all of this.

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fa5f92 No.856336

>>856330

What happens when that very State bans that very bible that you want to quote here? This is no fantasy or theoretical question. It happens even to this day, sadly.

Paul wrote huge letters containing complex thoughts. Don't simply treat what he says in a piecemeal fashion. There's usually a condition or context.

When Peter and the rest of the Apostles were brought before the High Priest and commanded to stop preaching the Gospel, what did he say?

“We must obey God rather than men." - Acts 5:29

The Apostle James also instructs one to follow what they know is right:

"So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin." - James 4:17

What would have happened to the entire fate of Israel if Moses' mother or sister obeyed Pharaoh and had him killed? What should have happened to all the midwives who tricked Pharaoh and lied to him to protect the males? (Exodus 1:15-22)

What should have happened to Elijah for fleeing Ahab and Jezebel? Is it right for a State to force demonic and pagan worship.. simply because they're the State?

What should have happened to Daniel and his companions for not worshipping a golden statue of Nebuchadnezzar? (Daniel 3:1-30)

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4e6cfb No.856411

bump

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fa5f92 No.856416

File: 0702b798508358b⋯.jpg (149.4 KB,508x636,127:159,The_Death_of_Jezebel.jpg)

>>856411

Being civil is basically the requirement of God's people. But there is also a time for civil disobedience as well. Such as St. Peter and the Apostles telling the High Priest that they will refuse to stop talking about Jesus. They were still civil and a harm to no one.

In rare cases, there is perhaps a time for active disobedience as well, such as Elijah's case, as I mentioned above. He didn't just merely disobey Jezebel. He came back with a vengeance and beheaded all the priests of Baal. He never got close to Jezebel though. He passed his mantle to Elisha. Elisha later anointed a new king, Jehu, who restored a true order worth obeying. And as Jehu finally broke through the royal army and came into her palace, Jezebel got dolled up and tried to look seductive as Jehu approached. It had no effect on him, and zero concern that she was still the "Queen" in some respect. He commanded her own servants to toss her out the window. To her surprise, they obeyed. There her corpse was left to be eaten by dogs, as Elijah prophesied would happen to her long before.

May that be the end of all "State" officials who go against the Lord and his prophets.

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574918 No.856422

>>856328

Simply because a geopolitical entity is not Christian doesn't necessarily mean that it is not ordained by God. For example, when the Israelites were conquered by the Babylonians, God clearly intended for the Babylonians to rule the Israelites as punishment for their faithlessness. The Babylonian kings were ordained by God despite the fact that they worshipped false gods.

I believe that the current regime in the USA is a punishment sent on the Christians living here for tolerating Godlessness in our country. However that doesn't mean we can never resist authority, in fact there could come a time when our faith requires us to resist the authorities. I believe that if Christians were to attempt a revolution to create a wholly Christian nation, God would grant us the strength needed to succeed because the new authority we would replace it with would also be ordained by God.

TL;DR governments are ordained by God, but uprisings can also be ordained by God.

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1691ff No.856424

File: 7d35db261232a53⋯.jpg (27.2 KB,320x240,4:3,BibleKJV.jpg)

File: 9958c0235944c56⋯.png (612.83 KB,1417x2695,1417:2695,7e09efd91.png)

>>856422

>I believe that the current regime in the USA is a punishment sent on the Christians living here for tolerating Godlessness in our country.

I think more specifically, it's for giving heed to and for transacting with Judaism. Any deal with them is a corrupt deal, a wicked transaction. A lot of corrupt theology has seeped into churches in the form of hyper-dispensational or zionist thought, which has led directly to the loss of the power of God in many churches; pretty soon because of this, more people stop reading the Bible or taking it seriously, and then there is a lack of understanding of even the most basic truths. This very drastic trend that we see today seems to align with the description of a great falling away, although if it is THE great falling away we shall see in due time.

As it says in Hebrews, "For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry."

To be perfectly fair, the U.S. was built on a solidly Biblical basis. Over a hundred years before the Constitution was ever written, you have the documents of some of the colonial founders who came here with a will to escape the corrupt state church system (which serious study of history shows was heavily judaized by that time—a process that has eventually spread to the US in the 20th century, with Hollywood, which is run by "them", its influences, and so on). The colonial founders were well aware of this, and founded this country on an unprecedented Biblical basis. As Lincoln, the 16th President once said, this is a nation "conceived in liberty." It is founded on the proposition that all men are created equal, rather than some kind of big brother bureaucracy that supports "them" and forces people to be "equal" (i.e. "equity") rather than truly placing them on a level playing field.

Yes, the colonial founders knew what was up with that corrupt system. One of the charters was originally proposed to with the following statement, (which is still inscribed on the state house of Providence in Rhode Island even today,) and reads like this:

"That they might be permitted to hold forth a lively experiment that a most flourishing civil state may stand, and best be maintained, with a full liberty in religious concernments; and that true piety, rightly grounded upon gospel principles, will give the best and greatest security to sovereignty, and will lay in the hearts of men the strongest obligation to true loyalty."

Again, even before this when the first city on Rhode Island was founded, the compact of their foundation read like this:

"7th day of the first month, 1638: We whose names are underwritten do here solemnly, in the presence of Jehovah, incorporate ourselves into a body politic, and, as he shall help, will submit our persons, lives, and estates unto our Lord Jesus Christ, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and to all those perfect and most absolute laws of his given us in his holy word of truth, to be guided and judged thereby."

This was of course more than a century before the Constitution, Declaration of Independence or Bill of Rights was written. Many of the concepts of freedom of liberty, taken straight from the Bible and lived by the early church and those persecuted during the dark ages, were brought to America in the founding of these places. Thus, the "fall" from that point to the current state can only be seen as a testament to the corruption that exists in all men, as well as the need for God to come soon to save us from the fallen state that we all experience. Our imperfection is due to the fall of Adam, we can't escape that without Christ. So we learn that until the millenium when Christ comes to reign over us all, there will always be something missing.

However, as I said before, this is a piece of history of America that the modernists would desperately like to keep us from waking up to.

For as the Bible says, "Awake to righteousness, and sin not."

Amen.

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efafd1 No.856425

>>856422

I guess that makes sense, everything is done or permitted by God.

>I believe that the current regime in the USA is a punishment sent on the Christians living here for tolerating Godlessness in our country.

Isn't it Christian to respect the freewill of non-believers? God doesn't force his creation to love him.

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