/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

New pope when?

>>856283

Not a Catholic, but I'm rooting for you guys. I really am. Even if I wanted to be a Catholic, the last thing I'd want is a confirmation paper dated in this man's supposed papacy.

>>856284

I don't understand why he seems so averse to the traditional mass. It has existed for 2000 years and the alternative is only 50 years old and susceptible to irreverent rituals. I think it's because he's a Jesuit and thinks that the church should reform to thrive.

I have to give some credit to the Jesuits though. They have an impressive record when it comes to converting and evangelising people.

Also, if you realise that Christ is Lord and that he started the Church (the one that compiled the Bible) I don't think you should put off your conversion just because of one awkward pope. We've had bad popes in the past and we'll have bad popes in the future.

>>856287

You're probably right, but it's still embarrassing to have on your permanent record. The best thing I suppose to make light of it is pretend that Benedict is the real pope.

>>856289

Exactly, although my mothers Orthodoxy is tempting.

>>856291

Don't get me wrong, because I'm not interested in debating either of you, and don't want you to change where you are - but all traditional churches who sincerely follow Christ are in the same boat. We're in this together. I'm not jumping ship at all. Nor is your mom. This is the real meaning of Catholic. It's the hidden, universal Church. You can't just simply point at one spot and say that's where the Holy Spirit is working:

"The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." - John 3:8

"Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”

“Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us. Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward." - Mark 9:38-39

That said, stay strong and God bless.

>>856292

Its pretty incredible how old and large the church is despite these recurring discouraging popes.

>>856293

One thing I would note is that in the past, even amidst turmoil and corrupt individuals, there were saints and pillars who held up the Church to thwart them and who steered the ship and influenced the Church far more than the leadership did.

I would be more optimistic if the Church had more pillars like this right now. It makes it easier to forget the leadership. Pope Francis' own namesake was one of these very pillars. I think he was clever in choosing St. Francis, because he knew how much automatic goodwill would be engendered to him. It made it all the more easy to misdirect.

>>856296

The thing with loss of good doctrine that it's reached such an outlandish level of evil that typical disagreements over past doctrine don't mean quite as much now. Now I'm just hoping all stay strong on the bare minimum. It's kind of like when Jesus was disappointed in his disciples for simply not falling to sleep in Gethsemane and staying awake for him. The bare minimum. It's bad out there. And I just want all Christians, of any stripe, to stay strong and know that they're not alone. They're all going to be persecuted and tempted to bend and compromise, and it'll get increasingly worse when they don't.

I'm reminded of this warning some years back from James Caviezel. Here's a diehard Catholic, who walked into an Evangelical church, and saw them as brothers and sisters, and had a warning for them all. Everyone needs to hear this:

>>856287

The mass evolved throughout history the ordinary form is actually closer to the ancient mass, also evangelising non-westerners with latin and european cultural sensibilities seems absurd.

True

Watch

https://youtu.be/R2AMq6Nclg8

>>856300

Yeah true but masses around the world used to be exactly the same. I don't think its a problem.

>>856300

>evangelising non-westerners with latin and european cultural sensibilities seems absurd.

Funny how missionaries evangelized more people with TLM than modern priests ever will.

>>856287

Because it's not about Christianity, it's about ideology. TLM adherents typically do not subscribe to the globalist, post-modernist ideology that the Vatican has come to prefer to their patrimony.

>>856315

Modern Catholic priests don't even evangelize. But, I don't think the TLM was the sole reason for their success. Times have greatly changed. My patron, St. Nicholas of Japan, had great respect for Francis Xavier and spoke of him at a synod in Moscow regarding Xavier's success as an evangelist. He said, "…we can no longer ring a bell in the center of town and preach the Gospel and be heard. The days of Francis Xavier are over". He was right. People no longer hear evangelists, and especially today when we are bombarded with an endless stream of distractions.

>>856319

>Because it's not about Christianity, it's about ideology.

Exactly. I understand the need for being clear and understandable in missionary work, but it's not about that (nor is worship or the mass for unbelievers in the first place. But for believers). There are bigger schemes beneath the veneer of simply attacking the old mass. Even as a non-Catholic, it's clear to see.

I've known with many priests who refuse to celebrate the modern rite over the years and sadly I must say that they were more persecuted by bishops than actual pedophiles.

I think I can't find a better metaphor to explain the sad state of Catholic Church right now.

>>856287

>I don't understand why he seems so averse to the traditional mass.

Because it's become a symbol of resistance against him. If he let it continue then the number of churches doing a latin mass would continue to grow and modern mass shrink until it became obvious that he has no support and can be taken down.

>I think it's because he's a Jesuit and thinks that the church should reform to thrive

The Jesuits are the source of satanism and paganism in the church. That's why a jesuit is now working to destroy the church. The jesuits have been a source of great evil since their inception. The jesuit order is actually an intelligence agency just like CIA and Mossad. Theyare actually the model modern intelligence agencies are based off of.>>856287

>>856296

> I would attribute it more than anything else to a lax attitude regarding the matters of faith and doctrine.

No, it's because the catholic church is in a state of deep capture by the satanic elite. Lucifer is commanding the pope now.

"pope" Francis is an apostate for his defiance of the Council of Trent and the prohibition against Changing the mass set in place by Pope Leo XIII.

Catholics don't listen to apostates, they shun them. To listen to an Apostate is disobedience against the Church. An apostate could never be the Vicar of Christ; that's an oxymoron, you can't be the Vicar of Christ and be cursed by God.

They've corrupted the faith often using a good cause e.g. removed the reference to the "perferious Jews" that was in the mass because it offended Jews. While Pope Pius XII refused to change the words in the mass, he said the Latin should be 'translated' in a way that doesn't offend the Jews. That was profoundly weak, and opened the door for Bugnini to corrupt the mass by changing the music. This Bugnini called a "master stroke" as it allowed the 1962 corruption of the Latin mass and the later Novus Ordo abomination

>>856287

Even worse Popes in the past! Yet the Church lives on!

>>856961

Not really. There were no heretical Popes before Pope , but there were wicked Popes. They (mostly) kept the faith even if they knew they were doing wickedness, until the first Heretical Pope John XXIII.