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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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File: 29dfedd789a10df⋯.png (728.67 KB, 960x480, 2:1, ClipboardImage.png)

2262e4  No.846247

What changed his mind?

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9abfa9  No.846249

>>846247

secular power

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675c9b  No.846264

>>846247

seeing the anabaptists take it too far and hijack what was supposed to be "a few reforms" into some apocalyptic death cult

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCnster_rebellion

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fa722a  No.846271

like every progressive revolutionary process first they claim oppressed status, then after having power they proceed to purge everyone who is agaisnt them. classic devilry.

Then came the french revolution same process, then came the commies same process, nowadays the homo world order same process.

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4433b0  No.846284

File: 5939884c9746b58⋯.png (198.01 KB, 558x151, 558:151, munster2.png)

>>846247

Offshoot of catholicism in this case.

>>846264

Those were more like gnostics than baptists. Jan Matthijsz had apocalyptic visions and claimed to receive special revelations. In other words, he wasn't following the Bible at all. Just because someone denounced infant baptism that single fact alone doesn't make them a baptist.

Especially if they don't follow anything else with regards to Scripture.

There have always been groups of spiritualist or cultists that spring up and baptists are often opportunistically accused of being the same as them when they aren't. In this case it can be proved that the rebellion in Münster was started by a Lutheran named Bernhard Rothmann.

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e97d24  No.846291

>>846247

Something something stare into the abyss.

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0b265a  No.846308

>>846284

Nigga, no one cares about your landmarkist obsession.

He didn't say the baptists did it, he said the Munster Anabaptists went full retard with the Reformation.

But you don't even consider yourself part of the Reformation, so you are sperging out about something that's foreign to your worldview.

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4433b0  No.846311

>>846308

>But you don't even consider yourself part of the Reformation

I wasn't born in the 15th or 16th centuries, so no you are correct. But what is your point?

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0b265a  No.846315

>>846311

Anabaptists=/=baptists.

Even if you start we wuzing that there were proto-baptists there, he said Luther got provoked by the Munster retards.

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e7ee55  No.846326

>>846247

I gotta agree with this guy

>>846249

luther was a very different man at the beginning and end of his life. He started off as a good man wanting to combat some of the wrong teachings the church was using (albeit legitimate political purposes like taking money from the rich to fund the crusades). Nevertheless scripture is to be taken seriously and false teaching is false teaching and Luther was right to oppose that.

However, some of the things he said at the end of his life, like wanting to rip out parts of the bible or when he starts talking about the pope and all the Catholic bishops being heretics and the pope being the devil in disguise - which may well be figuratively true there have been many bad and corrupt popes that's no secret but as a priest he should know that this isn't as important as some people think as long as there were no flawed official declarations which there weren't

It almost sounds like he caught a deamon by the end or something

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456f5c  No.846327

>>846311

His point was obvious based on his reference to landmarkism that you don't follow the anabaptist kinship theory of Baptist origins so you don't need to play defense for the munster millenialist cult

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4433b0  No.846328

File: f5fcbf1eb0109a7⋯.jpg (21.03 KB, 480x360, 4:3, kjv_1.jpg)

>>846315

>Anabaptists=/=baptists.

Heretics and Christians were both called the same names so this is a bit oversimplified. Like there were legitimately people that taught multiple baptisms and other things that have nothing to do with baptists.

I'm not sure what you're actually trying to assert with this statement though. You think true-believing churches didn't exist until the name "baptist" began to be used? Or you think Münsterites are the exact same thing as the Zürichers in 1523-1527, the English, Welsh, Vaudois? Or do you think the latter didn't exist?

Like I said, it's hard to tell what you're trying to say with this statement. I can show you where the origin of the name "Baptist" was as an abbreviation of the derogatory name anabaptist though which they at least did not accept. I can show you several individuals who were called both names in historical documents. For instance, John Miles/Myles and John Perry. But I understand this goes against the more modern textbooks on these subjects, which tend to dumb things down.

Douglass, William, A summary, historical and political, of the first planting and present state of the British settlements in North-America (1748), pp. 443-444,445.

>Anno 1634, Roger Williams, minister of Salem, was banished because of his [b] Antinomian and [c] fanatical doctrines; after some removes, with his disciples, he settled on the south side of the Patucket river and called their settlement Providence plantations, which name it retains to this day; they purchased it of the Indians, or had liberty from them to settle there…

>The Anabaptists, at their first appearance in New-England, were enthusiastically troublesome; they chose among themselves the meanest of the people for their ministers; they call themselves Baptists by way of abbreviation of the name Anabaptists, after the [d] Lollards— who were the first (in the Reformation)— followed the Lutherans and Anabaptists [e]. Some of them vainly imagine, that they ought to be called by that name in a peculiar manner; their baptism being the only scriptural baptism: they would not communicate with persons baptized in infancy only; if occasionally in a congregational meeting, upon a child's being presented for baptism, they withdrew, to the great disturbance of the congregation: fines were enacted; Holmes, because he would not pay his fine, was whipped thirty lashes.

In Douglass' footnote, he claims that anabaptists originated soon before Münster rebellion and that they were responsible for it, which is similar to what I was arguing against above.

>he said Luther got provoked by the Munster retards.

Let's just say I wanted to preempt the usual accusations. But if you don't care or aren't interested, then you are free to leave the discussion to the rest of us.

>>846327

I don't think anyone would play defense for the manichaean/cathar/free-spirit brethren/spiritualist/millenialist cultists. What I would simply tell you is that a lot of people have gone under the name

"Christian," some of them are true churches and some aren't.

Just because you can find some false prophets who went under the name "Christian," doesn't mean much for those of us that believe in the fact that the gates of hell shall not prevail against His church. Likewise for other names the church has been called; You can find false prophets that were called the same thing as the church was called.

Matthew 28:20

>Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

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4433b0  No.846329

>>846326

>this isn't as important as some people think as long as there were no flawed official declarations which there weren't

Dude you can define what is "official" in your own headcanon to be whatever you want. The next guy over has different ideas. You also define what is or isn't flawed in your own head. The simple fact is what you're dealing with isn't really a church at all, it's a political party. As long as you say the pledges of allegiance, you can believe/do whatever you want with almost no limitations. They will simply give you indulgences for whatever you want if you have enough money. Bottom line. I could point out examples of the depraved doctrine but you already know enough examples yourself. The average person in that party has no saving knowledge whatsoever of the Lord Jesus Christ, they don't know the first thing about anything He said or taught. Those that do will withdraw from those that walk disorderly, as the apostle Paul and the New Testament instruct the true believer to do. And they will join an actual church upon learning the truth.

The world doesn't like this because it openly rebukes their sin so it tries but because of the Lord's protection fails to strive against it.

>false teaching is false teaching and Luther was right to oppose that.

It's unfortunate he remained a pedobaptist and held onto various other false doctrines. There have been priests who have joined the church and, as far as I can tell taught true doctrine, Peter of Bruys for instance.

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0b265a  No.846330

>>846328

Again, as i said, i don't care about your we wuzzing, or the Age of Sail tier books you copypasta from.

The stunts of the Munster Anabaptists were the turning point for Luther, and that's that.

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4433b0  No.846333

>>846330

>The stunts of the Munster Anabaptists were the turning point for Luther, and that's that.

Uh, I would more point to Thomas Müntzer as the turning point for Luther. He actually had to move locations due to that man's rabble-rousing.

But I digress, I never even expressed disagreement with the post. I merely headed off a potential misunderstanding that proves once again to be very prevalent today due to poor quality history books/curricula. I pointed out that the Munster uprising was started, not because of the traveling millenarians who came later, but actually Bernhard Rothmann who was a Lutheran then Zwinglian pedobaptist who actually wrote against antipaedobaptism to his humanist friends. So as far as who started the Munster rebellion, now you know that too. I fail to see how respectfully contributing this relevant information is seen as somehow foreign to my worldview.

>Again, as i said, i don't care about your we wuzzing,

Great, then stop responding. Then I can have respectful discussions with my colleagues without interference.

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9f6f46  No.846334

>>846326

You're on the right track but a little confused. Luther saw Johannine Christianity was the truth but hated it. He threw out the OT books that supported it and tried to remove John too. Do the opposite of what he did. Follow John's books and the OT Apocrypha alone. All based denoms like Christian Identity and Cathodoxy follow the Apocrypha and see John's Gospel as the most important. All other scripture is just bulls— to appease the demonic masses so they don't kill us.

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4cfe56  No.846335

File: cdc6bee40d34860⋯.jpg (95.61 KB, 764x713, 764:713, DuQUdjhUcAEHrKu.jpg)

>>846334

>Follow John's books and the OT Apocrypha alone

>All based denoms like Christian Identity

>All other scripture is just bulls—

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e7ee55  No.846337

>>846334

>>846334

that's heresy anon

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ddf4e0  No.846338

>>846335

>>846337

The truth is not conformity to your social shaming tactics. The Truth is what works and that's final. Your demonic dysfunctional scripture is of Satan, the father of lies. In the physical world we have to keep quiet so you don't hurt us but that's not the case here on the internet. Get winnie the poohed demons. Praise be Jesus Christ and blessed be His chosen Apostle John.

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ddf4e0  No.846341

>>846335

>>846337

And the fact you attack me with such weak illogical social shaming arguments is just proof I'm right. You hate it. You hate that I choose to oppose you, the epitome of the evil, the hive of the devil. In the name of Jesus Christ I bind you eternally to hell where you belong.

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0b265a  No.846344

>>846338

>>846341

No, thats literally heresy.

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4433b0  No.846361

File: 67ae26b71e2b7a8⋯.jpg (20.5 KB, 323x169, 323:169, Raised_Nun_in_Judges_18_30.jpg)

File: 43f75dda1d1675b⋯.jpg (12.58 KB, 347x93, 347:93, Nomen_Sacrum_in_Revelation….JPG)

>>846334

Luther tried to remove John, so we should do the opposite and remove everything except his writings? Are you just trying to say ridiculous things?

How about this, how about people just stop removing scripture and actually treat it sacred and not add manmade sayings to it.

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ddf4e0  No.846364

>>846361

People are stupid and settle for the perceived middle ground. If we don't say John is the only valid Gospel we will eventually lose it. It's only a matter of when if we don't make the complete opposite argument the jews who want to get rid of it are making.

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e7ee55  No.846366

>>846364

>e stupid and settle for the perceived middle ground. If we don't say John is the only valid Gospel we will eventually lose it. It's only a matter of when if we don't make the complete opposite argument the

That's like saying if we don't say the 3rd amendment is the only valid amendment we will lose it. Yes the right against quartering soldiers is an important right, but freedom of speech and right to be free from unwarranted search and seizures and cruel and unusual punishment is all important. The entire thing is important.

In fact John refers to the old testament and the new testament refers to and clarifies John so it's easy to see how they are all important

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2262e4  No.846433

>>846334

(x). Why does the rosary seem to follow the Gospel of Luke (The Joyful and Sorrowful mysteries) and Acts (Ascension and Pentecost) the most closely then?

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