/biz/ - Business and Finance

im going to be more active here and try to revive the board. made a lot of money from eth thanks to biz and want the magic to return at least temporarily

There's literally no reason to rulecuck this board further. At least try to wait until we have the numbers to survive something like a rules change.

I'm not sure if there needs to be some sort of set rule in place for this - and I'm not even sure that having rules would work. Shills don't follow them. And whatever rules you might place, they would just find a way to bypass them, even if just semantically.

The shills get paid to go on boards and spam various things for certain reasons. If we ever get the type of traffic that would make shills interested in being here, then rules won't matter much.

The real answer for avoiding shills when it comes to chans is very strong moderation. Just be willing to absolutely destroy every thread that is garbage. Sure there might be some friendly fire, but if the thread is shit enough that you can't tell for sure if it's a shill or not, then it doesn't deserve to stay up anyways.

There's really only so much that can be done on these types of sites to keep discussion high level. But if /pol/ can do it, then /biz/ can do it. And really our best asset here is the fact that we are under the radar because of low traffic. Of course that also means that the activity here is very low as well.

>>1695

And also the real way to keep a community tight isn't really the written rules, because I doubt people will really read them, but a culture of hazing people and banning people that make terrible posts. They have to learn through pain.

But After browsing the board for a bit i do see that there are some pretty garbage tier posts now that weren't there last time I came here… Is it possible to block phone-based traffic? I bet that would go a long way to keeping out retards.

>>1695

>I'm not sure if there needs to be some sort of set rule in place for this - and I'm not even sure that having rules would work. Shills don't follow them. And whatever rules you might place, they would just find a way to bypass them, even if just semantically.

I had the concern with "no advertising" rule possibly being an objective conversation steered into something positive. But if minds are sufficiently inquisitive, it won't be easy or possible at all to shill a shitcoin for a temporary pump & dump. If rules really don't matter, then they're still posting guidelines on how not to get banned or deleted.

Test.

The reason why I wasn't issuing bans for the first wave of cleaning up the board is because:

#1 I would be retrospectively banning posters before the rules came into effect.

#2 Many of the posts are not active anymore, so it's slightly pointless.

But there will be public bans attached to posts.

>>1696

>Is it possible to block phone-based traffic

Probably not. Technically, I don't see an indication of whether or not someone posted with a phone.

>>1697

Putting up some basic rules as guidelines in order to shape the feel of the board sounds reasonable. And maybe - I just thought of this - maybe having those rules in place will help the organic community know when and how to shame people who break them.

>>1698

Public bans sound good. I think that's the best way, and have thought so ever since I read this:

>Community standards do not maintain themselves: They're maintained by people actively applying them, visibly, in public.

from here - https://archive.fo/GyYjr

Again I'm not sure how much this will effect potential future shills that come here, but I now think that this will at least keep new people from thinking that garbage shitcoin spam is a normal thing that should be replied to.

>>1659

Its also filled with meme sprouting unlike old /biz/

>>1735

Maybe after a while, but I remember /biz/ being flooded by shitposting when it started off

Jesus Christ, this css is garbage.

should we have stock threads ?

remove margin from div.post.reply img, faggot

>>1774

>>1789

The css was from the past board owner. Not something I wrote myself, but I'll see what I can do about it.

>>1796

tbh I really like it

>>1785

Go ahead. An old /pol/-affiliated thread discussed them.

>>1799

I think it looks decent; if it's really garbage, then it's salvageable. The spacing and the centered thread details on the bottom are weird, I think.

>>1801

>it's salvageable

It looks like whoever made it had the concept down, but wasn't very experienced with it. For instance, the flags have that huge-ass spacing around them because a 20px margin property has been applied to all images within replies, not just the images uploaded by users.

Are you familiar with CSS, or will you need help on that front?

>>1817

>what about a Odd Jobs style thread where Anon's can post things they need done, and other anons can post shit they're willing to do?

See >>1685

This would fall under community effort.

>Even on more respectable subjects, if everyone starts making their own thread for their new start up, offered services, or store, it becomes less of a discussion board for business and finances and more of a marketplace.

So, permitted, but should not clutter up the catalog with job offers/searches.

>Did you spend money on that?

No. I recently claimed the board and tried to give it exposure on

>>>/dir/

>>1805

One good way to mess around with the CSS and see what happens is to simply inspect element different parts of the page and play around with the values in the dev box that pops up. I'm speaking of Firefox though I'm pretty sure all browsers have similar tools.

>>1796

I like custom css for boars, I'm not browsing on mobile. If you want some help, post it here.

>>1911

>if you're gonna delete illicit threads, ya'oughta delete the crypto shilling threads as well. at the very least both topics should be contained to one thread.

The concern wasn't that, it was more of posting quality. I think the enforcement of the current rules covers the potential shitposting problem from cryptocurrency (considering 4/biz/ is completely flooded with crypto threads). I had the caution that scammers may be able to shit up the board in a way similar way without breaking any of the explicitly stated rules. I don't know how exactly and maybe they actually can't, hence "depending on how the board grows". I don't have a problem with shady topics as long as it isn't breaking the site rules either.

Also, I don't think containment to one thread per subject is necessary yet. This board still has year-old threads that haven't 404'd and the volume of activity is still small. You can read the rationale for creating new threads in the Rules sticky under "Community Building Remarks"- it's juxtaposed with bumping old threads, but it also applies to making new threads vs replying to one large monolithic thread of a topic.

>>1920

Yes.

Those would be finance, public (government) and personal (taking loans).

>>1895

>Update: settings have been saved, but don't know when they'll take effect.

If my understanding is correct, CSS changes should update as soon as you save them, since they're their own file. I'm pretty sure that all settings which don't just update automatically will update once someone makes a post, which is a measure to mitigate server-side work. Also, please take a look at the following:

Requested CSS Changes

>Problem 1: The page list is not centered, and expands the page horizontally beyond the window's width at all times, causing a permanent horizontal scroll bar on the front page, where it's not needed.

<Fix: Change the padding: 8px; on div.pages to padding-top: 8px; . Also add padding-bottom: 8px; if desired.

>Problem 2: In the Quick Reply box, the description of the post options run into their corresponding tick boxes.

<Fix: Add margin-right: 4px; to #no-bump , #spoiler-images-option , and #no-country-option .

>Problem 3: When using the Quick Reply box, the JavaScript Captcha box that appears is the default Yotsuba Blue, but the text therein is /biz/'s white, making the text almost unreadable.

<Fix: Add background-image: url("https://i.imgur.com/vBAHUnY.png") to #alert_div .

>Problem 4: It impossible to resize the post box.

<Fix: Remove width: auto !important; from both .post-table textarea and #quick-reply textarea .

>Problem 5: Once the postbox is resizable, the items in the Quick Reply box do not resize to the box.

<Fix: Delete fucking everything.

This one is more complex of a problem than the others, and it'll take more time than I have right now to figure out why it's fucked. Please forgive the formatting, I wasn't sure how else to express it. I'll periodically post other CSS nitpicks here too, if you don't mind.

>>1942

At the time, it took sometime for the CSS changes to take effect, it didn't occur after a post either. I'll be trying out the CSS changes locally, then making the settings official for the board.

On /sudo/ there's been some talks of a regular event to give smaller boards some exposure. You may read more details here:

>>>/sudo/44368

To enter, we'd need a SFW sentence as our tagline, a lot like "Poorfag? Get Rich" from before, and it'll be an advertising slogan in the event the board happens to win. The past tagline invited discussion regarding personal finances & trading, but if we can draw discussion regarding public finance (economic and fiscal policy), and more threads from business owner anons that would be a great addition.

As usual, let me know what you think or what you've come up with.

>>1999

can we try to get /biz/ on the /tech/ - related boards sticky?

>>>/tech/589255

>>2089

Added.

>>1947

Cloudflare caches the CSS, so it takes up to a few hours for CSS changes to take effect, depending on your location. Unless you bypass Cloudflare, by using the hidden service, or by using http://206.223.147.214/.

You can also use your browser's developer tools to test CSS changes. They're designed for it.

>>2089

>>2090

I didn't imagine it to be relevant enough to /tech/.

Thanks.

>>1659

OP, I'm the previous board owner before July 5th, 2017. I've been away because the board was inactive and no one ever replied to my posts, so I put it on the back burner because I've very busy with other projects. The only thing I changed while I was active was I posted "Get Rich or Die Fryin'". I do want to see this board active and would like to have access to moderator privilege as I have some ideas. Maybe we can discuss a joint board ownership?

>>2135

> I do want to see this board active and would like to have access to moderator privilege as I have some ideas. Maybe we can discuss a joint board ownership?

This is negotiable, but I have little if any way of verifying that your statement of being a past board owner is true. I also would like to see the board grow, but the board's subject being finances can be prone to serious abuses by any figure of authority.

I can accept moderation help for the time being.

>>2154

FYI, I have you considered for board volunteer status. However it was my self-imposed rule that all contact with the board owner is either on 8chan private messages (overseeable by 8chan administration) or public. However seeing how private messages and accounts work on 8chan, it probably isn't feasible, and I would have to figure another way to securely give you your username and pass.

Can we get all crypto shilling in a single megathread? once >50% the threads are over a single topic it gets inundating. i'd ban with impunity most these threads just for the sake of cleaning up the board and allowing other subjects to get some views.

>>2343

Shilling in general is a bannable offense.

I think many cryptocurrency related threads indeed can be consolidated into a big one judging from the depth of discussion, as a personal opinion.

Technically the board is nowhere near the maximum capacity of threads so a ban is rather heavy handed. I will try this however; a stickied cryptocurrency thread to direct all discussions of that topic there and an official bump for all threads other topics that aren't already bumplocked.

>>2346

>>2343

>over half the threads are on a single sector

>Let's just shove it all into a single general

Well that sucks. Most of the threads were on different topics such as bitfinex's questionable solventy, altcoins, and the fissure between bitcoin and bitcoin cash. Also particularly annoying that now the legendary thread where an anon called bitcoin's bottom and the ensuing pump last year is now 404ed due to every crypto thread getting bumplocked without exception. To me it seems like you're just playing favorites based on your personal interests.

>>2370

My observations with crypto threads were as follows:

There were a handful of threads that were individually asking for investment advice which don't really end up anywhere. This can be directed to a big thread without much issue.

There were also a handful of general crypto trading threads that could also be directed to a big thread without much issue either.

Specialized discussions similar to Bitfinex/Tether controversy, Bitcoin Politics, and in-depth investigation of specific cryptocurrencies, I would expect to organically splinter off the big thread. Regarding the aforementioned threads, it's reasonable to have them unbumplocked.

Looking at the current order of the catalog, no thread would have 404'd from being <10 posts and bumped off page 5. The next thread to be 404'd which is the penthouse one is still around.

https://archive.fo/cozOL

>>2375

>Looking at the current order of the catalog, no thread would have 404'd from being <10 posts and bumped off page 5.

Well It was over 100 posts and I know people were posting in it in November as I did yet its gone now and there's threads within the first five pages whose newest post was back in September.

>>2377

>>2375

Looking at the archive it was already gone apparently, I just didn't notice till everything got bumplocked. Still weird though as it was definitely around on Thanksgiving.

>There were a handful of threads that were individually asking for investment advice which don't really end up anywhere. This can be directed to a big thread without much issue.

>There were also a handful of general crypto trading threads that could also be directed to a big thread without much issue either.

Yeah, I agree with you on this actually. The impression that the sticky gave me was that everything crypto related had to go into one containment general.

>Regarding the aforementioned threads, it's reasonable to have them unbumplocked.

Thanks, it'd be nice if they were.

>>2377

Threads that would be 404'ing; I'm not sure what's going on. The board capacity is 25 pages either way.

It sounds like you're describing this thread.

>>558

Last night I dreamed this became an active board.

>>2440

If you don't have it already here's a paste of it.

https://p.teknik.io/7Nc9x

Roughly 2 weeks of cryptocurrency posts going into the sticky the main benefit I've noticed is that posters who want investment advice or have general short questions get their answers this time as opposed to before where many of those types of individual threads do not get responded to. This is better on the board since there aren't several new threads with 0 replies or at best only a few.

Generally, the catalog looks a little more organized.

I have some consideration on doing a similar sticky such as "short questions that don't deserve their own threads". This might solve the issue of old threads being randomly bumped even when the OP has been absent for months. However, it doesn't occur too often and threads being made for topics outside of cryptocurrency are still rare.

Regarding scam/crime discussions, absolutely should be allowed. This is 8chan for christ's sake, which is a spinoff of 4chan for christ's sake, so if not here, where?

Not to mention, what is really the problem? I don't have anything illegal to confess but it's interesting and I want to know about it – why would anyone be against it, exactly? If it's just moralfagging you need to check yoself. If it's a liability issue, maybe ask somebody at 8chan.

>>2507

Discussion of scams and scamming is allowed.

>Not to mention, what is really the problem?

The concern was primarily posting quality rather than morals or legality. For example, the situation with cryptocurrency results in several short threads and near-spam type threads because of whatever market fluctuations. Additionally a lot of shilling because they're generally used as investments rather than payment methods.

>>1659

test

>>1660

It looks even worse than that now. The only thing sadder is that this board is more level-headed and on-topic, yet sadly its completely dead. What a fucking horrible time to be in business…

>>3155

Stick around and post a bit, and it may just build up enough.

To moderators, when banning for advertising, add the following after the stated ban reason:

If you would like to advertise, purchase an advertisement from https://8ch.net/ads.html

Maybe posting could be encouraged with a daily posting sticky. Surely others can manage posting on here once a day at least. Just glanced at 4/biz/ and it's utter shit. Here however I'm seeing much higher quality posting- and given the popularity of /pol/ I don't see how this board couldn't be a little more active. Business and Finance are redpills on their own.

>>3472

Also all the dead anchored threads at the bottom of the catalog are just an eyesore. It probably would have been better off if they were just deleted. Some ideas for thread stickies:

>Long Term Investments

>Financial Lifestyle/Planning

>Book Thread

>General Economics/Markets discussion

>/biz/politics

>>3473

Make some good ones and they'll get stickied. Broadening the perspective of what /biz/ is sounds like a good way to increase real activity.

>>3473

The dead anchored threads on the bottom were somewhat of a gesture when I got board ownership. Not to appear as a board purge to the few users around that didn't expect it, but keeping the threads around as reviewable reading material. The board is currently set for low bump limit (250) and high page capacity (25) as carried over settings from the previous owner.

>Long Term Investments

>Financial Lifestyle/Planning

>Book Thread

>General Economics/Markets discussion

If you make those threads, they will be stickied. The idea that has my caution is /biz/politics especially if it starts with clear advocacy, but that doesn't stop it from simply being it's own thread however you end up starting it. I do not mind if users from /pol/ start populating the board or if the board naturally develops controversial perspectives.

>>3484

>Not quite sure what you mean by that.

For example, if your opening post explicitly endorses a proposal for a new fiscal policy (any country) then I might refrain from stickying it; however it's still allowed. If the opening post was minimal or impartial, then a /biz/politics thread could be stickied.

>>3674

Prepare for mass migration (possibly) in the near future. I've been lurking here for a while on and off (hoping for things to pick up), but the recent "4channel" changes have brought a new wave of…..shall we say subversive influences? More and more dissatisfaction around how the jannies are utterly failing to maintain the board - such as repeated calls for specific sticky threads. If we can get some decent stickies and info dumps, and a proactive anti-shilling stance is enforced this could be a new home for the refugees. Honestly, it wouldn't be hard to do better than halfchan.

>>3679

The board certainly needs more activity to impart a different atmosphere than 4/biz/. To distinctly show it's a different crowd and what was tolerated at there isn't here. That's the tough part. Though if you look at the other de facto 4chan containment threads, they're not actually satisfied with this board's moderation either and have tried to make cryptocurrency centric boards (to only later abandon them since they don't have the patience to build a community much less start one).

I do enjoy how the meta threads on smaller boards are conversational and give a baseline of activity. Should raise the possibility of making friends with the other smaller boards i.e board rings, but if so, which boards?

>>3680

Yep, I'm not entirely sure what the answer is. I'd really prefer to see more dedicated stickies - the focus (other than crypto) in 4/biz/ is really any kind of online small business idea. So affiliate marketing, freelancing, ebooks etc. Since thr 4/biz/ jannies won't sticky anything informative though, the good info is slid off constantly in favour of obvious paid shills.

Suggestion: Expand the restriction on crypto threads a little. I'll go into more detail about what I mean by that, as it's certainly NOT opening the board up to 4/biz/ style shilling. As mentioned, we definitely need to get some good stickies up on non-crypto stuff too. If I can keep from getting distracted, I want to post a guide on writing Kindle books for example in the near future.

But crypto is kinda important. The real issue on the halfchan /biz/ is that it's devolved into a constant stream of shilling & fudding by p&d groups, traders & general scammers. But crypto is still important to anyone that's into the whole "AnCap" (and even AnSoc really) ideal of making money & engaging in financial services independently of State control, since it's an attempt to make that possible.

So the problem is this: IMO, the best crypto threads are obviously not when there's a dozen pajeets yelling "Moon", but when we can actually have a more technical conversation. For example, about why Smart Contracts are important, governance models for DAO's, cryptoeconomics, whether every Dapp really needs a specific token, good ideas for Dapps, technical discussions, political implications and so on. If we MUST discuss Link (or something), it should be at a more technical level about why a decentralised oracle is even required, not just more Sergey spam.

So those kinds of (very rare) threads are really all that's keeping me on 4/biz/ at all. The big issue is that the jannies won't sticky anything (or ban spammers) - so after some really great threads get posted it's back to square one. I mean, there was an AMAZING Bot authoring thread a while back, not about "Buy this Bot", but with quants, machine learning guys, actual traders etc all getting really detailed into how to build one. And now - I can't even find it on the archive, it's just lost in the sea of shilling.

Take this as an example of what I mean: https://boards.4channel.org/biz/thread/12206376

It's obvious that some discord p&d morons started it, they probably just randomly selected MKR for their "moon mission" of the week. Various anons on 4/biz/ (myself included) are long time users of the MakerDAO project though, so we managed to pretty much derail it from being a shill thread into a more serious discussion of WHY it's an important project, how it can help anons to act as a "bank", and even at a higher level how it acts to potentially remove the need for Central Banking altogether, that sort of thing. Thing is, we've had this thread MANY times before (and often at higher quality,), and as it's a tough platform for new people to understand it really could use it's own general. Inevitably, more and more detailed questions will come up, we'll start posting screenshots and giving a bit of a tutorial, people will start to figure it out……and then some spambot posting "XSN to da MOON!" or something will slide it off again.

So: Can we talk about some way in which we can have threads like that here that AREN'T in the main crypto containment thread? It's too detailed & specific to go in the crypto general, and since it's less focused on token price speculation, and is more about making use of a Dapp & Smart contract it's not really a shill but just a general money-making suggestion. Tool discussion as it were.

Similarly, I'd love to start some Dapp idea discussion, maybe even get some other coders in here talking about stuff. So the focus again wouldn't be "Buy/Sell token x" but "What kind of businesses can we start that actually make use of this stuff". I mean, massive opportunity awaits - imagine making a Patreon replacement right now?

In other words, it's the trading and speculation side that needs to be contained (more than crypto per se, after all Gold and Silver shills are pretty obnoxious as well). More generally speaking how to actually USE all this stuff to make money outside of trading is the important part that's getting neglected. And on the FUD side, I still see people posting about how "Crypto price volatility is it's death" and "There are NO working Dapps and NO use cases for them", when that simply isn't true.

Thoughts? Just an idea that came to me while I was posting in that MakerDAO thread.

>>3680

>Should raise the possibility of making friends with the other smaller boards i.e board rings, but if so, which boards?

/ausneets/ springs to mind, maybe some similar boards, for anyone who might be interested in ways to avoid working for someone else. Not /r9k/ though, tend to be too whiny. Also /econ/ (pretty dead though). Will try and think of a few others - one thing I wouldn't want to see happen is it to turn into a /pol/ outpost of any kind. Even though I (and it seems a lot of other /biz/ posters) tend to be part of the more AnCap wing of /pol/, the focus should really remain on actual viable business ideas, money making strategies, mindset & motivation etc. So maybe just avoid anything too "political" by nature. Economics discussion is a grey area of course.

>>3689

>Suggestion: Expand the restriction on crypto threads a little. I'll go into more detail about what I mean by that, as it's certainly NOT opening the board up to 4/biz/ style shilling. As mentioned, we definitely need to get some good stickies up on non-crypto stuff too. If I can keep from getting distracted, I want to post a guide on writing Kindle books for example in the near future.

>But crypto is kinda important. The real issue on the halfchan /biz/ is that it's devolved into a constant stream of shilling & fudding by p&d groups, traders & general scammers. But crypto is still important to anyone that's into the whole "AnCap" (and even AnSoc really) ideal of making money & engaging in financial services independently of State control, since it's an attempt to make that possible.

>So the problem is this: IMO, the best crypto threads are obviously not when there's a dozen pajeets yelling "Moon", but when we can actually have a more technical conversation. For example, about why Smart Contracts are important, governance models for DAO's, cryptoeconomics, whether every Dapp really needs a specific token, good ideas for Dapps, technical discussions, political implications and so on. If we MUST discuss Link (or something), it should be at a more technical level about why a decentralised oracle is even required, not just more Sergey spam.

Decent idea. We have this thread. It's not bumplocked or deleted, or getting anyone banned for posting in it; along with a few other specialized crypto-discussions on the bottom.

>>1628

The problem is that 90% of the cryptocurrency discussions tend to be exactly the speculation, or some barely substantial discussion such as "should I buy this, guys" that at best results in 3-5 posts (the answer is "think for yourself").

>Similarly, I'd love to start some Dapp idea discussion, maybe even get some other coders in here talking about stuff. So the focus again wouldn't be "Buy/Sell token x" but "What kind of businesses can we start that actually make use of this stuff". I mean, massive opportunity awaits - imagine making a Patreon replacement right now?

If you make a thread on this, there will be no bans or thread deletions. Similarly, if you wish to discuss the consensus algorithms and implementations in different currencies.

Apparently 3 cryptocurrency threads above page 3 on a slow board is too much for this guy to handle.

>>3792

Going to update the board css so the board log is better legible. Also going to revise the welcoming sticky.

Also

Currently the board has several small threads of 0-3 replies primarily from individuals with a specific situation asking for advice which are on topic. Most often, the board is far too slow paced for them to check back and respond, and it contributes to the dead board look as stated in >>3472

I'll be trying a Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Threads type thread.

Old welcoming sticky archived.

http://archive.is/exKdv

Why did you delete my findom thread?

>>3954

I don't recall seeing a Findom one unless you're talking about a very old thread that would've been fallen past page 5 before getting 10 posts.

https://8ch.net/log.php?board=biz

>Boreas hidden 8 hours /biz/ Deleted post #3927

This one was the Coindar one.

>ChrisHansen hidden 4 days /biz/ Deleted post #3930

This one I didn't see but we can probably guess why it was deleted.

>>3972

This guy has invested in the Bitcoin ponzi scheme… Bro the only way to make money with bitcoin is to cash out.

>>3974

"I invested in the Bitcoin ponzi scheme", therefore I deleted a thread reporting on it's bull run, and then a fud thread with the stated reason that these threads on market fluctuations should be contained to the sticky.

You seem to be out of place.

Deleted another shill thread.

>mailto:sub@gmailo.com

Is this even a real e-mail address?

>>3984

now I'm kind of curious about the economics behind all these shills. are they independent or paid by a third party? how many of them are there? do they actually make money?

I've seen all the shills on half chan and I just assumed it was a bunch of meme posting. but it can't be fun to repeatedly post the same stuff for this long.

>>3992

Majority of bans, if you check the board log, have been for advertising. Most often a small upstart or low notoriety, or low market cap coin/asset that is entirely forgotten in some months- I assume in those cases, those are chatroom insiders.

A lot are bots however, but I did notice some manual ones (e.g one guy changing the end of his post with a different character to throw off the robot9000 moderator).

>>3993

mostly small time pump and dumps huh? guess I can see those working on the type of people clinging on to the idea that crypto is a shortcut to riches.

it's a shame that there's so little interest in using image boards to discuss finance if it isn't to fleece someone else.

What's the point of the flags anyway? I don't everyone to see that I'm a Swede.

>>4011

It's a carried over setting from past moderation, but it may be from the problem 4/biz/ had with Indian shillposters. If you look in extra post settings, you can toggle hide country.

>Promote the board on the popular, non-leftist boards. I think most of the people that come to the site don't know that this place exists. I mean, more than 200k people use 8chan every day, most of us are probably is our thirties or close to it and we get hardly any posters on the business board. It's weird.

It's been done a few times. The #GamerGate thread will sometimes link small boards to drive attention to, and /biz/ has a slight relevance to /pol/'s /sig/ threads.

I recall the impression within the #GamerGate thread was that the posters were "not interested in getting rich", which since then the board topic I've tried to balance with the stickies. (When /v/ talks about the market or business, it's mainly to laugh at the stock prices falling- which would be fine for this board anyways).

And at the time /sig/ were or is currently mostly focused on personal health and fitness.

>>4007

>mostly small time pump and dumps huh? guess I can see those working on the type of people clinging on to the idea that crypto is a shortcut to riches.

>it's a shame that there's so little interest in using image boards to discuss finance if it isn't to fleece someone else.

There's a small imageboard with a board that discusses markets and finances level-headedly, but the relation to 4chan-Reddit is very distant. Still, the posting activity is small or modest.

Currently, shilling is drastically reduced from the previous years. Probably due to the current state of the cryptocurrency market. Though I'm unsure how pervasive the observation is, I think board moderation has made things clear to migrating 4chan users judging by this thread.

>>3558

>>3578

>>4009

>Promote /biz/ to channers

We're on /dir/, what more do we need? Do you really want to invite people sufficiently stupid (no offence to you) that they don't check /dir/?

Also, I think that the lack of open discusison of business-related scholarship is one of the biggest weaknesses of 8ch/biz/.

>>4024

the point of promotion is to invite people who don't know this place exists or don't know why they should care. you don't see advertisements that remind people to look them up on google.

>open discusison of business-related scholarship

I'd like more of that too, but I can easily see that devolve into /pol/ shit posting if there isn't already a base level of civil discussion.

>>4024

>We're on /dir/, what more do we need? Do you really want to invite people sufficiently stupid (no offence to you) that they don't check /dir/?

The board is also listed on >>>/tech/966466

http://archive.is/Ng1gV

>>>/v/16344822

Just a note on this /biz/'s general perception. I suppose a lot is inherited from 4chan /biz/, or currently many don't distinguish 4/biz/ and 8/biz/.

Though honestly I thought cryptokitties or cryptosluts was a completely stupid idea. And I don't sympathize with the idea of transferring progress or game items from one game to another.

>>>/v/16357068

>Isn’t it frustrating to invest tens, or even hundreds of hours into a character in a video game and then start from the ground up when you move on to the next game? Imagine being able to take objects from one game and move them into another as items you actually own.

IMO. This is called a save file. You own your save file and it is on your computer without any need of a consensus algorithm and network connection. Transferring your Lv100 character from one game to another completely defeats the purpose of playing early level content in that other game.

>>>/v/16359037

>This is already a thing, devs just release the patch or mod to bring back cut or removed content

>>>/v/16359288

>What's to stop sites like Steam from banning games that have adult patches linked to them?

If you think Steam's censorship necessitates cryptocurrency, then I think the contexts are confused. There's two separate types of threats of censorship involved.

For a Steam game's case, it's censorship of content e.g texture files, models, or game packages. In this case, Steam only cares about content it is distributing, and all other forms of content distribution, whether it is by torrent, another store, or the developers' sites, is out of its concern. It is not actively seeking out patches to takedown because it is not their business. You do not need a network and a consensus algorithm to distribute patches.

For cryptocurrency's case, it's censorship of transactions e.g something not allowed by a country's law. So a governing entity would be out to intervene.

>>4036

>>4038

isn't this something you'd create a new thread for? it's not really a meta issue

also yeah, blockchain is a solution looking for a problem. but people push it because of it's ties to an anarchist political stance, not any realistic use case.

>>4039

You're right. There's probably somewhere else I can put these "forking" posts (aside from the same thread containing /v/'s perception of /biz/).

It's going to take some effort to properly distinguish this board from 4/biz/.

>>4041

>It's going to take some effort to properly distinguish this board from 4/biz/.

is there something you want this board to be other than 4/biz/ without shills?

>>4042

I check 4/biz/ every now and then, and from what I can tell 4/biz/ without any shills would be shitposts and the occasional insightful post.

I do want something besides the "get rich" and "millionaire playboy and moon lambos dream" attitude. For example, a self-improvement standpoint for the anons who have different goals. E.g when summer starts, bad or good, a lot of obvious recent high school graduates have come asking for help on living independently.

That doesn't mean I won't allow the current niche of board participants to give the board a new direction or facet I don't expect. The board is certainly allowed to change over the course of time.

>>4048

I've been going to 4/biz/ mostly just to gawk at the mess. plus I have bit of a fascination with the people who fall into that cult mindset. I have seen a few posts that seem to be legitimately asking for help. but I don't how you can direct those conversations over here without actively shilling the board itself. it's a shame since any real advice is usually drowned out by crypto or some other dodgy scheme. I swear some industry is paying a group to shill gold/silver 24/7 over there.

I personally wouldn't mind a place to discuss economic topics without the political baggage but I'm not too optimistic about that coming from the 4chan crowd. I'm somewhat more confident giving financial advice from my own experiences but a lot of the time it's easier to just point to established resources.

I had the completely random thought after deleting the QR code of a cryptocurrency address.

>>4054

What if we had a Donation thread in that anon projects' donation addresses are posted e.g hydrus network. Or anything like /tech/'s foss project, a /lit/fag's self-published novel, or some drawfag's art.

On one aspect maybe this completely shoots down a beggars idea that he'd get any money for doing nothing, now having to compete with actual merit.

On another aspect, just maybe this would open a Pandora's box of unimaginable bullshit. I'm guessing this would be more likely.

>>4060

I have a bit of a bone to pick with Patreon style "donations", they have a tendency to do more harm than good. and there are already a number of other services that do that sort of thing but then adding a layer of anonymity just puts it at a disadvantage.

that said, I do like the idea of experimenting with the board and some kind of incentive. though I don't know what exactly what that would be or how it could be pulled off without external tools.

>>4063

I don't like Patreon style donations either. I used to like Bitcoin for giving kudo's online, even back when they were worthless. But at this point, cryptocurrency is less of a niche payment processor and more of a hysteria-driven commodity for speculation.

Additionally, I'd hate the "market analytics" that could come out of it. Hard to describe, but best I can is the "trying too hard to fit in" feel that comes with trying to cater to the most possible people. So if the revenue stream attributable to /biz/ were obfuscated that could be avoided.

Current only perks to the donation idea are anon's hobby, amateur, or general productivity given spotlight. And beggars outright knowing they have no chance.

>that said, I do like the idea of experimenting with the board and some kind of incentive. though I don't know what exactly what that would be or how it could be pulled off without external tools.

I suppose the external tools would be a given. There'd have to be an project website, or checksum to ensure the donation address isn't just someone trying to cash in on another's work.

>>4065

>Additionally, I'd hate the "market analytics" that could come out of it.

once money is involved, there's going to be pandering in one way or another. a barrier between the creator and audience isn't going to remove the incentive to maximize profits. specifically feature creep and deadline extensions tend to sneak into these kind of projects, even with the best of intentions. worst case scenario it starts attracting strait up vaporware.

not that this is necessarily a bad thing; economic considerations have always been an intrinsic part of art and arguably more meaningful for it. this is just me starting to ramble about my issues with Patreon. also I think it's an interesting topic.

but that's all putting the cart before the horse. can't really work out these problems before knowing what the goal is in the first place. whether it's making /biz/ more relevant or simply funding legitimate creators. I just like the idea of running an experiment and trying something new.

>>4067

>not that this is necessarily a bad thing; economic considerations have always been an intrinsic part of art and arguably more meaningful for it. this is just me starting to ramble about my issues with Patreon. also I think it's an interesting topic.

For what it's worth, that could be a thread topic. Though personally, I've encountered profitability getting in the way of art more often than not though, and my perspective may be shared with /v/ in many cases. E.g last gen, it was "dumbing down games" for a casual audience or "we want call of duty audience", this gen it's rampant censorship.

>once money is involved, there's going to be pandering in one way or another. a barrier between the creator and audience isn't going to remove the incentive to maximize profits. specifically feature creep and deadline extensions tend to sneak into these kind of projects, even with the best of intentions. worst case scenario it starts attracting strait up vaporware.

Vaporware et al brings to mind crowdfunding like kickstarter, though now that I think about it, Patreon applies as well.

>but that's all putting the cart before the horse. can't really work out these problems before knowing what the goal is in the first place.

>whether it's making /biz/ more relevant or simply funding legitimate creators. I just like the idea of running an experiment and trying something new.

In the best case, I could get behind these. Though I'd like for /biz/ to remain 'sane' e.g single Project Donation thread only, first post is impartial or contains archives. I would think it's better to add the constraint of "no pitches" and "<thing to receive donations for> must not derive it's value from nonavailability" (to distinguish from shilling a store page).

>>4068

>Though personally, I've encountered profitability getting in the way of art more often than not though

I mean economics gets in the way of art the same way physics gets in the way of fields like architecture. it's an obstacle but how it's circumvented or overcome is a part of the end product as much as any other influence. like how the idea of lives in games was influence by coin operated arcade machines, or how MMOs are designed to maximize "engagement".

I could also contest the idea that the "dumbing down" of games is necessarily a bad thing. but that's an entirely different discussion.

>In the best case, I could get behind these

what about starting small and putting down $50 on some kind of prize grab and see who comes? maybe something like an art or short story contest

>>4069

>what about starting small and putting down $50 on some kind of prize grab and see who comes? maybe something like an art or short story contest

Good intentions and we could probably draw attention from creative or media-focused boards because of that, but my concern would be payment processor and board staff anonymity.

(Though it isn't the case at the current moment since /biz/ is small, I wouldn't enjoy the situation where there'd be bribes at all to turn a blind eye to certain topics.)

>I mean economics gets in the way of art the same way physics gets in the way of fields like architecture. it's an obstacle but how it's circumvented or overcome is a part of the end product as much as any other influence. like how the idea of lives in games was influence by coin operated arcade machines, or how MMOs are designed to maximize "engagement".

That's an interesting way to put it, though the analogy may be imperfect. It works fine in terms of sustainable effort. I don't quite approve of MMOs nowadays since many tactics either border or are outright psychological exploitation (hence companies employing psychologists) as opposed to game design in the conventional sense. But that's a POV of morality.

>>4070

>but my concern would be payment processor and board staff anonymity

wasn't crypto the intention here? it's basically the only thing it's good for. though I haven't actually used it for transactions myself.

>though the analogy may be imperfect

I didn't do a great job on selling the idea. but I think you'd be surprised at how economics influences parts of the world that are not intuitively affected by it.

>I don't quite approve of MMOs nowadays since many tactics either border or are outright psychological exploitation (hence companies employing psychologists)

as far as I've read, one of the top metrics associated with MMO players keeping their subscriptions open is human connections and guild participation. which isn't the worst thing psychologists could be helping design for. casual games with micro transactions and loot boxes are a different story.

>>4071

>wasn't crypto the intention here? it's basically the only thing it's good for. though I haven't actually used it for transactions myself.

Nowadays every exchange has KYC (know your customer) and requires identification, so real life money going in requires identification.

>>4073

buying crypto at a physical exchange should put enough distance between you and the receiver. don't think you need any ID to use one of those bitcoin ATMs.

>>4074

I haven't tried those out before. I always suspected those came with cameras of some sort, but there's no real confirmation on that.

>>4074

>don't think you need any ID to use one of those bitcoin ATMs

big fucking lie

>>4079

from what I've read most ATMs don't bother for any ID other than a phone number when transacting smaller amounts. which is easy enough to get around.

Deleted this thread.

http://archive.fo/ZUwn2

Applied ban and deletion for thread #4103 (reason: advertising). Archive is available for oversight.

Applied ban and deletion for thread #4109 (reason: referral marketing). Archive is available for oversight.

There are 5 stickied threads. Maybe These could be merged into 2 or 3 threads to reduce clutter

>>4137

There is no thread merging capability.

I can unsticky the "finding a job" and the "investing into yourself" thread since those were spotlighted to set a focus of the board besides cryptocurrency.

But we could have a (Recent) High School Graduate thread so these one-off threads don't have to keep popping up.

>>4058

Deleted thread #4085, old bumplocked discord chatroom shill thread (where the link was edited out).

Applied ban and deletion on thread #4183 and #4184 for advertising. Archives are available for oversight.

Going to clean up catalog.

Thread #4220

Offtopic. (Celebrity / influential figure discussion)

Thread #4222

Offtopic. (Gigantess fetishism)

Thread #4208 #4201

Is cryptocurrency shilling.

Thread #4196

"Financial thots in this thread only."

Either pointless thread or making celebrities out of random women that appear in videos.

Thread #4187

Off-topic. (DMT or Cannabis)

In dire need of making this board alive again. 4chan biz is dead. At least here, sergey posters can go to >>>cc

>>4238

what do you need the board for? if there's something you want to talk about then start a thread for it.

>4chan biz is dead

4/biz/ was always shit. it's not like anonymous image boards are where people go for reasonable discussion in the first place.

>>4240

I'd prefer generalized discussion over one thread per question.

E.g job seeking, cryptocurrency, entrepreneurship are threads that have multiple anons asking about their specific case. And the thread itself can grow to be a resource for people in similar situations regarding the topic.

The "individual question" type thread often fails to meet the 10 post requirement to stay live past page 5.

I've made slight changes to the rules page under the section for posting guidelines. Although the posters most affected by them are unlikely to have read any of it.

https://8ch.net/biz/rules.html

Removed this thread for repetitive post. (Made as its own thread when the same content has been posted in the stock thread.) http://archive.is/DrP0y

Either is user error or spam.

>>4241

the disposable nature of anonymous boards doesn't make it a great long term resources imo.

and I don't see thread consolidation as a priority when board activity is so low. I'd rather see a bunch of abandoned legitimate questions instead of a bunch of locked crypto shilling posts.

>>3472

>Just look at how successful that was with the Cryptocurrency thread! Multiple threads with continuity and discussion is part of what makes a board look alive. With as many threads with <10 posts that I see this place doesn't appear to offer much.

Above is part of my perception.

>>4265

The locked cryptoshilling posts can be cleaned up.

re: long term resource, there's often reoccuring general threads on other boards with thread copypastas, stickies, and archives. These get formed over time as anons link, comment and criticize as a result of discussion over time.

>>>/tech/965329

>>>/v/16606862

It's not so much about rationing the available space for each thread. It didn't do well for the board in ~2017-2018 where there were several one-off questions asking for advice in buying bitcoins (not just shill posts). The same things are asked but with anons having a snippet about their current situation. So similarly, I'd rather not see the equivalent for other topics like:

>how do I be an entrepreneur?

+ <I'm a pessimistic & depressed student / starving artist / stay at home dad / venezuelan neet / german / and so forth >

But it's simple preference, not enforcement.

The lump sum thread as its own thing is rather justified for example.

Deleted threads #4244 #4242 #4239 #4235 #4231

These were the five shill threads: http://archive.is/YTCqG

Really persistent spam from a vpn lately.

>>4266

crypto aside I think threads serve as a more approachable jumping off point for discussion. as opposed to a single large general where people might feel obligated to read the entire thing before they can contribute. I have nothing to back that up though.

as for the resource copypasta, I assumed you would have made it already if you wanted it in the sticky threads. (I'm assuming your the BO)

Deleted threads #4269 #4273 #4288 #4291 #4296

(Shill threads.)

http://archive.is/zp8mh

>>4249

what's the stance on threads with a political agenda? or any kind of agenda

I actually wouldn't mind a thread of geopolitical economics thread but >>4278 is just a mishmash of extremist headlines and unhinged conspiracy theory.

>>4301

Moderation should be politically unbiased, but should act against campaigning (that is categorized under advertising). There hasn't been much political discussion for it to demonstrate any problems for the board, though it can be a problem as I've seen on other boards.

The post linked in >>4278 doesn't appear to be actionable since the intent doesn't appear to be persuading. If it does persuade, that's more on the reader's impressionability.

Anons may have disagreeable if not outright bad opinions sometimes, but its also open for criticism. Only ideally (no enforcement otherwise), the nature of any debate should be for coming to an informed conclusion rather than spectacle or "ideaological wins".

What's it going to take to get rid of these VPN spam bots? Clicking their discord reason to be banneds, then posting gore? Making deep fakes of their developers?

Just anything to the same effect of Evolve and Wraith porn, or advertisers pulling out of YouTube or whatever.

Deleted threads #4310 #4312 #4314 (cryptocurrency advertising).

>>1659

Member when there weren‘t so many mexicans?

There's decent discussion in this thread >>3179

but the bait format of the OP is a bit annoying.

If anyone wants it to be edited e.g to add a thread title, or add to OP text, just ask for a mod edit.

Received ban appeal and lifted ban.

https://8ch.net/log.php?board=biz

Cleaned two threads from the catalog. http://archive.is/8nEka

>>>/b2/631341

>>>/v/16759972

>>>/tech/1083591

>>>/leftypol/2961400

>>>/pol/13574096

https://archive.fo/2mPin

https://blog.cloudflare.com/terminating-service-for-8chan/

http://archive.today/2019.08.05-014817/https://twitter.com/kevinroose/status/1158188641946165248

https://web.archive.org/web/20190805020908/https://new.blog.cloudflare.com/terminating-service-for-8chan/

did not expect to see this board alive again.

is the same BO running the place?