/biz/ - Business and Finance

>>>/v/16359037

>This is already a thing, devs just release the patch or mod to bring back cut or removed content

>>>/v/16359288

>What's to stop sites like Steam from banning games that have adult patches linked to them?

If you think Steam's censorship necessitates cryptocurrency, then I think the contexts are confused. There's two separate types of threats of censorship involved.

For a Steam game's case, it's censorship of content e.g texture files, models, or game packages. In this case, Steam only cares about content it is distributing, and all other forms of content distribution, whether it is by torrent, another store, or the developers' sites, is out of its concern. It is not actively seeking out patches to takedown because it is not their business. You do not need a network and a consensus algorithm to distribute patches.

For cryptocurrency's case, it's censorship of transactions e.g something not allowed by a country's law. So a governing entity would be out to intervene.

>>4036

>>4038

isn't this something you'd create a new thread for? it's not really a meta issue

also yeah, blockchain is a solution looking for a problem. but people push it because of it's ties to an anarchist political stance, not any realistic use case.

>>4039

You're right. There's probably somewhere else I can put these "forking" posts (aside from the same thread containing /v/'s perception of /biz/).

It's going to take some effort to properly distinguish this board from 4/biz/.

>>4041

>It's going to take some effort to properly distinguish this board from 4/biz/.

is there something you want this board to be other than 4/biz/ without shills?

>>4042

I check 4/biz/ every now and then, and from what I can tell 4/biz/ without any shills would be shitposts and the occasional insightful post.

I do want something besides the "get rich" and "millionaire playboy and moon lambos dream" attitude. For example, a self-improvement standpoint for the anons who have different goals. E.g when summer starts, bad or good, a lot of obvious recent high school graduates have come asking for help on living independently.

That doesn't mean I won't allow the current niche of board participants to give the board a new direction or facet I don't expect. The board is certainly allowed to change over the course of time.

>>4048

I've been going to 4/biz/ mostly just to gawk at the mess. plus I have bit of a fascination with the people who fall into that cult mindset. I have seen a few posts that seem to be legitimately asking for help. but I don't how you can direct those conversations over here without actively shilling the board itself. it's a shame since any real advice is usually drowned out by crypto or some other dodgy scheme. I swear some industry is paying a group to shill gold/silver 24/7 over there.

I personally wouldn't mind a place to discuss economic topics without the political baggage but I'm not too optimistic about that coming from the 4chan crowd. I'm somewhat more confident giving financial advice from my own experiences but a lot of the time it's easier to just point to established resources.

I had the completely random thought after deleting the QR code of a cryptocurrency address.

>>4054

What if we had a Donation thread in that anon projects' donation addresses are posted e.g hydrus network. Or anything like /tech/'s foss project, a /lit/fag's self-published novel, or some drawfag's art.

On one aspect maybe this completely shoots down a beggars idea that he'd get any money for doing nothing, now having to compete with actual merit.

On another aspect, just maybe this would open a Pandora's box of unimaginable bullshit. I'm guessing this would be more likely.

>>4060

I have a bit of a bone to pick with Patreon style "donations", they have a tendency to do more harm than good. and there are already a number of other services that do that sort of thing but then adding a layer of anonymity just puts it at a disadvantage.

that said, I do like the idea of experimenting with the board and some kind of incentive. though I don't know what exactly what that would be or how it could be pulled off without external tools.

>>4063

I don't like Patreon style donations either. I used to like Bitcoin for giving kudo's online, even back when they were worthless. But at this point, cryptocurrency is less of a niche payment processor and more of a hysteria-driven commodity for speculation.

Additionally, I'd hate the "market analytics" that could come out of it. Hard to describe, but best I can is the "trying too hard to fit in" feel that comes with trying to cater to the most possible people. So if the revenue stream attributable to /biz/ were obfuscated that could be avoided.

Current only perks to the donation idea are anon's hobby, amateur, or general productivity given spotlight. And beggars outright knowing they have no chance.

>that said, I do like the idea of experimenting with the board and some kind of incentive. though I don't know what exactly what that would be or how it could be pulled off without external tools.

I suppose the external tools would be a given. There'd have to be an project website, or checksum to ensure the donation address isn't just someone trying to cash in on another's work.

>>4065

>Additionally, I'd hate the "market analytics" that could come out of it.

once money is involved, there's going to be pandering in one way or another. a barrier between the creator and audience isn't going to remove the incentive to maximize profits. specifically feature creep and deadline extensions tend to sneak into these kind of projects, even with the best of intentions. worst case scenario it starts attracting strait up vaporware.

not that this is necessarily a bad thing; economic considerations have always been an intrinsic part of art and arguably more meaningful for it. this is just me starting to ramble about my issues with Patreon. also I think it's an interesting topic.

but that's all putting the cart before the horse. can't really work out these problems before knowing what the goal is in the first place. whether it's making /biz/ more relevant or simply funding legitimate creators. I just like the idea of running an experiment and trying something new.

>>4067

>not that this is necessarily a bad thing; economic considerations have always been an intrinsic part of art and arguably more meaningful for it. this is just me starting to ramble about my issues with Patreon. also I think it's an interesting topic.

For what it's worth, that could be a thread topic. Though personally, I've encountered profitability getting in the way of art more often than not though, and my perspective may be shared with /v/ in many cases. E.g last gen, it was "dumbing down games" for a casual audience or "we want call of duty audience", this gen it's rampant censorship.

>once money is involved, there's going to be pandering in one way or another. a barrier between the creator and audience isn't going to remove the incentive to maximize profits. specifically feature creep and deadline extensions tend to sneak into these kind of projects, even with the best of intentions. worst case scenario it starts attracting strait up vaporware.

Vaporware et al brings to mind crowdfunding like kickstarter, though now that I think about it, Patreon applies as well.

>but that's all putting the cart before the horse. can't really work out these problems before knowing what the goal is in the first place.

>whether it's making /biz/ more relevant or simply funding legitimate creators. I just like the idea of running an experiment and trying something new.

In the best case, I could get behind these. Though I'd like for /biz/ to remain 'sane' e.g single Project Donation thread only, first post is impartial or contains archives. I would think it's better to add the constraint of "no pitches" and "<thing to receive donations for> must not derive it's value from nonavailability" (to distinguish from shilling a store page).

>>4068

>Though personally, I've encountered profitability getting in the way of art more often than not though

I mean economics gets in the way of art the same way physics gets in the way of fields like architecture. it's an obstacle but how it's circumvented or overcome is a part of the end product as much as any other influence. like how the idea of lives in games was influence by coin operated arcade machines, or how MMOs are designed to maximize "engagement".

I could also contest the idea that the "dumbing down" of games is necessarily a bad thing. but that's an entirely different discussion.

>In the best case, I could get behind these

what about starting small and putting down $50 on some kind of prize grab and see who comes? maybe something like an art or short story contest

>>4069

>what about starting small and putting down $50 on some kind of prize grab and see who comes? maybe something like an art or short story contest

Good intentions and we could probably draw attention from creative or media-focused boards because of that, but my concern would be payment processor and board staff anonymity.

(Though it isn't the case at the current moment since /biz/ is small, I wouldn't enjoy the situation where there'd be bribes at all to turn a blind eye to certain topics.)

>I mean economics gets in the way of art the same way physics gets in the way of fields like architecture. it's an obstacle but how it's circumvented or overcome is a part of the end product as much as any other influence. like how the idea of lives in games was influence by coin operated arcade machines, or how MMOs are designed to maximize "engagement".

That's an interesting way to put it, though the analogy may be imperfect. It works fine in terms of sustainable effort. I don't quite approve of MMOs nowadays since many tactics either border or are outright psychological exploitation (hence companies employing psychologists) as opposed to game design in the conventional sense. But that's a POV of morality.

>>4070

>but my concern would be payment processor and board staff anonymity

wasn't crypto the intention here? it's basically the only thing it's good for. though I haven't actually used it for transactions myself.

>though the analogy may be imperfect

I didn't do a great job on selling the idea. but I think you'd be surprised at how economics influences parts of the world that are not intuitively affected by it.

>I don't quite approve of MMOs nowadays since many tactics either border or are outright psychological exploitation (hence companies employing psychologists)

as far as I've read, one of the top metrics associated with MMO players keeping their subscriptions open is human connections and guild participation. which isn't the worst thing psychologists could be helping design for. casual games with micro transactions and loot boxes are a different story.

>>4071

>wasn't crypto the intention here? it's basically the only thing it's good for. though I haven't actually used it for transactions myself.

Nowadays every exchange has KYC (know your customer) and requires identification, so real life money going in requires identification.

>>4073

buying crypto at a physical exchange should put enough distance between you and the receiver. don't think you need any ID to use one of those bitcoin ATMs.

>>4074

I haven't tried those out before. I always suspected those came with cameras of some sort, but there's no real confirmation on that.

>>4074

>don't think you need any ID to use one of those bitcoin ATMs

big fucking lie

>>4079

from what I've read most ATMs don't bother for any ID other than a phone number when transacting smaller amounts. which is easy enough to get around.

Deleted this thread.

http://archive.fo/ZUwn2

Applied ban and deletion for thread #4103 (reason: advertising). Archive is available for oversight.

Applied ban and deletion for thread #4109 (reason: referral marketing). Archive is available for oversight.

There are 5 stickied threads. Maybe These could be merged into 2 or 3 threads to reduce clutter

>>4137

There is no thread merging capability.

I can unsticky the "finding a job" and the "investing into yourself" thread since those were spotlighted to set a focus of the board besides cryptocurrency.

But we could have a (Recent) High School Graduate thread so these one-off threads don't have to keep popping up.

>>4058

Deleted thread #4085, old bumplocked discord chatroom shill thread (where the link was edited out).

Applied ban and deletion on thread #4183 and #4184 for advertising. Archives are available for oversight.

Going to clean up catalog.

Thread #4220

Offtopic. (Celebrity / influential figure discussion)

Thread #4222

Offtopic. (Gigantess fetishism)

Thread #4208 #4201

Is cryptocurrency shilling.

Thread #4196

"Financial thots in this thread only."

Either pointless thread or making celebrities out of random women that appear in videos.

Thread #4187

Off-topic. (DMT or Cannabis)

In dire need of making this board alive again. 4chan biz is dead. At least here, sergey posters can go to >>>cc

>>4238

what do you need the board for? if there's something you want to talk about then start a thread for it.

>4chan biz is dead

4/biz/ was always shit. it's not like anonymous image boards are where people go for reasonable discussion in the first place.

>>4240

I'd prefer generalized discussion over one thread per question.

E.g job seeking, cryptocurrency, entrepreneurship are threads that have multiple anons asking about their specific case. And the thread itself can grow to be a resource for people in similar situations regarding the topic.

The "individual question" type thread often fails to meet the 10 post requirement to stay live past page 5.

I've made slight changes to the rules page under the section for posting guidelines. Although the posters most affected by them are unlikely to have read any of it.

https://8ch.net/biz/rules.html

Removed this thread for repetitive post. (Made as its own thread when the same content has been posted in the stock thread.) http://archive.is/DrP0y

Either is user error or spam.

>>4241

the disposable nature of anonymous boards doesn't make it a great long term resources imo.

and I don't see thread consolidation as a priority when board activity is so low. I'd rather see a bunch of abandoned legitimate questions instead of a bunch of locked crypto shilling posts.

>>3472

>Just look at how successful that was with the Cryptocurrency thread! Multiple threads with continuity and discussion is part of what makes a board look alive. With as many threads with <10 posts that I see this place doesn't appear to offer much.

Above is part of my perception.

>>4265

The locked cryptoshilling posts can be cleaned up.

re: long term resource, there's often reoccuring general threads on other boards with thread copypastas, stickies, and archives. These get formed over time as anons link, comment and criticize as a result of discussion over time.

>>>/tech/965329

>>>/v/16606862

It's not so much about rationing the available space for each thread. It didn't do well for the board in ~2017-2018 where there were several one-off questions asking for advice in buying bitcoins (not just shill posts). The same things are asked but with anons having a snippet about their current situation. So similarly, I'd rather not see the equivalent for other topics like:

>how do I be an entrepreneur?

+ <I'm a pessimistic & depressed student / starving artist / stay at home dad / venezuelan neet / german / and so forth >

But it's simple preference, not enforcement.

The lump sum thread as its own thing is rather justified for example.

Deleted threads #4244 #4242 #4239 #4235 #4231

These were the five shill threads: http://archive.is/YTCqG

Really persistent spam from a vpn lately.

>>4266

crypto aside I think threads serve as a more approachable jumping off point for discussion. as opposed to a single large general where people might feel obligated to read the entire thing before they can contribute. I have nothing to back that up though.

as for the resource copypasta, I assumed you would have made it already if you wanted it in the sticky threads. (I'm assuming your the BO)

Deleted threads #4269 #4273 #4288 #4291 #4296

(Shill threads.)

http://archive.is/zp8mh

>>4249

what's the stance on threads with a political agenda? or any kind of agenda

I actually wouldn't mind a thread of geopolitical economics thread but >>4278 is just a mishmash of extremist headlines and unhinged conspiracy theory.

>>4301

Moderation should be politically unbiased, but should act against campaigning (that is categorized under advertising). There hasn't been much political discussion for it to demonstrate any problems for the board, though it can be a problem as I've seen on other boards.

The post linked in >>4278 doesn't appear to be actionable since the intent doesn't appear to be persuading. If it does persuade, that's more on the reader's impressionability.

Anons may have disagreeable if not outright bad opinions sometimes, but its also open for criticism. Only ideally (no enforcement otherwise), the nature of any debate should be for coming to an informed conclusion rather than spectacle or "ideaological wins".

What's it going to take to get rid of these VPN spam bots? Clicking their discord reason to be banneds, then posting gore? Making deep fakes of their developers?

Just anything to the same effect of Evolve and Wraith porn, or advertisers pulling out of YouTube or whatever.

Deleted threads #4310 #4312 #4314 (cryptocurrency advertising).

>>1659

Member when there weren‘t so many mexicans?

There's decent discussion in this thread >>3179

but the bait format of the OP is a bit annoying.

If anyone wants it to be edited e.g to add a thread title, or add to OP text, just ask for a mod edit.

Received ban appeal and lifted ban.

https://8ch.net/log.php?board=biz

Cleaned two threads from the catalog. http://archive.is/8nEka

>>>/b2/631341

>>>/v/16759972

>>>/tech/1083591

>>>/leftypol/2961400

>>>/pol/13574096

https://archive.fo/2mPin

https://blog.cloudflare.com/terminating-service-for-8chan/

http://archive.today/2019.08.05-014817/https://twitter.com/kevinroose/status/1158188641946165248

https://web.archive.org/web/20190805020908/https://new.blog.cloudflare.com/terminating-service-for-8chan/

did not expect to see this board alive again.

is the same BO running the place?