/asatru/ - Asatru / Heathenry / Paganism

>>1283

There's a similar thread here:

>>29

>>3345

I'm not sure where all these deleted posts went. I don't remember deleting them. 2spooky4me

>>3377

I missed them posts, I was sleeping at that time. (I'm in the GMT timezone).

Global reports are sent to the Global 8chan Moderators who can moderate any board. I'm not sure If I can see them global reports.

Hey mods, is it okay if I Post a whole song onto the board? Its a little long and my computer is not letting me attach files. However it is an edited version of a very obscure poem, The Song of the Sun, so I think it has value in being posted.

Related to this thread >>5081

>>4127

UPDATE:

I absolutely loved it and since then saw one other Opera, which was also great. Of course the focus was on Christian imagery and the only Heathen in the piece was, sorta, the villain. But that that didn't bother me since the music was great.

A few weeks later I also found out that the saga of Lohengrin is based on the older Saga of "Skeaf", who as a baby boy naked and with all sorts of goods, weapons and jewelry landed alone in a boat on a coast. People found him and saw his high nature. They thought he was sent by a god and eventually elected him to be the first king of the Angles. His son was called Skild and was a popular prince. He owever long was without a son, but as he was old his son Beowulf was born. As the old king died, his people put his body on a gorgeous boat, together with loads of weapons and jewels. Then they let the boat into the sea and let the floods control its course.

>>5485

Update II:

How did I not realize the obvious parallels of the "Knight of the Swan" tale to the Valkyries? I love how this adds to the story. It's basically a heathen story with a thin Christian layer.

What sound do you guys associate with ravens and crows? I mean how would it be written onomatopoeic wise?

t. not English native

Would Viking Metal be accepted in a Asatru society?

>>5896

I've wondered about this too, and although I'm not personally a fan of metal I think it would honestly. Some bands like Tyr endeavor to make the lyrics somewhat spiritual and the whole idea is spiritual in a way; using guitars powered by Thor, drumming and singing, the whole thing can be seen as offering to the gods in musical form

>>5896

Viking Metal is not a real genre it is usually folk/Black metal with viking lyrics. But I would not see the problem with it being asatru considering how it sings the glory of our ancestors. Anyone who says otherwise is a contrarian faggot. Metal is as masculine as you can get music wise. Ibn Fadlahn said that the Kievan Rus' singing were like dogs barking. So maybe they growled IDK or something close to it. Does not matter Galdr is a form of magic Germanics used it was a chant to be sung. It is a musical magic.

Folk metal or "Viking metal" can be seen as a form of Galdr especially if you get into Burzum and read or watch Varg. His music can be seen as Galdr magic.

>>5898

Thanks.

What does Asatru say about loneliness? I'm ugly as fuck with no friends / girlfriend.

>>6264

The pine tree wastes which is perched on the hill,

nor bark nor needles shelter it;

such is the man whom none doth love;

why should he linger in life?

Go out and make some friends man, ugliness does not matter if you present yourself well. Make friends first, if you're an ugly single dude with no friends girls will always find you creepy. Women are attracted to status and alpha behavior and a part of that is having friends, even having 2 or 3 really close friends will show you are loyal

>>6264

To his friend a man should bear him as friend,

and gift for gift bestow,

laughter for laughter let him exchange,

but leasing pay for a lie.

This is kind of related in a roundabout way. You should make friends at work and pick up a few hobbies like shooting were you'll meet other cool dudes and have something to give them more than just your company.

>>6264

If your ugliness isn't stemming from your face then lose weight and make yourself proud of your body. If your body is fine but your a bit ugly it shouldn't matter too much.

Here i suggest you do this Personality test and learn more about yourself.

http://www.16personalities.com/free-personality-test

I'm a personality type that is introverted and logical. I don't really need human interaction as much as some personalities do. So i usually only had one best friend at a time who i saw outside of school to either play videogames or Music with. But i now have no friends because I'm not interested in playing music anymore and my old Friend isn't red pilled and would probably have a shit fit if i said nigger, that and he smokes weed occasionally and i went to his house after not seeing him for ages and he had a fat wiccan girlfriend. I would rather have no GF than that monster.

I'm sure ill find a new best friend at some point though but a GF is harder as I lack experience.

The thing that you need if your calling yourself a loser is confidence, get that and you should get friends and a girlfriend easier.

I work out, started dieting recently and I'm learning a second language, little things like that help with confidence and make you feel like your accomplishing something.

I know many of you believe in the Gods allegorically, but do you believe in an afterlife? Also what decides if you go to Valhalla or are reincarnated?

Some Christians may take the bible allegorically but they still believe in heaven.

>>7173

My understanding:

You are not one single entity. Different parts of you (flesh, consciousness, intellect, etc) become different things. I personally don't believe in Valhalla but if it's real there's a part of you that goes there.

>>7416

Thank you for the response, but I'm still confused. Do you believe in objective truth or not? How could the Germanic gods be true for the Germanic people, while the (for example) Hindu gods are true for the Indian people? I could understand this being logical if you said that the Germanic gods are simply non-literal archetypes which are compatible with the Germanic race/culture, while the Indian gods are better (non-literal) representations of the Indian "race-spirit" but if I understand correctly you say that your gods are both literally true as well as race-specific.

>>7471

So you, as a Norse pagan, believe that the gods of India are real, but you don't worship them because they aren't associated with your ancestors? Do Norse gods ever interact with Indian ones? If both pantheons are true, why do people only worship small chunks of the thousands of gods/goddesses based on race? Would you say that the God of Abraham is real too? In that case, would you say that the Bible or Qur'an are true scriptures and descriptions of (one) God and his will?

>>7479

Ah. So you would say that you and Hindus worship some of the same literal cosmological entities, but with different names and different cultural archetypes imposed on them by your respective cultures? You believe in an objective truth, however you believe that man's attempt to know the Divine Mystery can take many different semi-successful equally valid forms? If the God of the Jews is real, how do you explain his claim of being the only God? Is he simply lying? Would you say that Yhwh's claim of exclusivity is "real to the Jewish people, but not to others"? Why are Christianity and Islam not given the same treatment as pagan religions? Christianity may have begun in the middle east, but it certainly reflects western values and culture even though it was not the original religion of the area. In fact, I would argue that Christianity has had a greater effect on most western cultures than paganism has, so someone who wants to worship the god(s) which best represent their nation would find that in Christianity. Similarly, Arab culture is literally 100% based around Islam. Should an Arab really worship the pre-Islamic gods whose "nation-spirit" is probably very foreign to him?

>>7485

So you say that any culture's attempt to understand the gods is valid, but Christianity's and Islam's are not valid because the group that practices them covers multiple culture groups, and isn't linked to one particular race/culture? Why does that invalidate them? Why the obsession with race? Can't a multicultural group of people with a shared faith come closer to understanding God(s) regardless of their race? Is there some kind of supernatural element to race that I'm missing here? I believe that race is simply genetic differences in body structure, and culture is a mundane thing; does heathenism say it's more than that? Also, are non PIE religions "valid"? What about the gods of China? Japan? Native America? The Pacific? Africa? Their gods don't fit in with the archetypes and patterns present in European and Indian pantheons, so would you say that their attempt at comprehending the unknowable nature of the gods is simply less successful than yours is? Or do the literal cosmological entities in reality have no definable characteristics by man? For example, the entity which asatruers call Thor wields a hammer and controls lightning. Could a native American religion, for example, believe that that same entity is a woman who carries a staff and causes earthquakes, and would both of them be equally valid apprehensions of that entity's nature? Does the entity known as Thor *actually* have a gender, a preferred weapon, and a natural phenomenon or is he simply an unknowable spirit who accepts whatever cultural values are imposed on him?

Does anyone have reliable info on galdr? I've read about it in a few contemporary rune books that have lyrics for "runic chants" that basically are just pronouncing the letter in multiple ways but I don't see anything in the lore that seems to state this. In the havamal and the spells of groa, it appears to more of an actual chant with incantations and words and not just mumbling letters.

if anyone has any reliable info on the chants called galdr please let me know

It seems to me that so much about Asatru is connected to the land.

But not only do I live on a different continent from my ancestors, I also live in a massive city. I am quite removed from nature. How can I feel any connection to the gods of my ancestors?

>>7553

Live in a rural community. Wait until Europe is purged, then move there.

My family is almost all european, besides a grandparent that is half european half native american, I allways felt that Christianity was not for me, they only managed to manipulate me and put fear. I did find in paganism the peace I wanted, and also it feels that it is what I was looking for. How should I proceed? I am thinking about marring with a woman from a light mixed family as mine, because I don't want to break an pure family as they did with my own. I would like to get some light on what people in my situation should do.

>>7625

I have pretty much the same genetic situation that you do. My advice is to not taint the purity of others, but preserve your own. Find a woman who is in the same situation as you and raise your children right.

Im new here, coming from christianity.

Jesus said to love people and love God

Doesn't paganism say the same? We should love our people and our ancestors, and honour (love) our gods.

>>7963

There are, of course exceptions. What does one do with homosexuals? With drug abusers? With illegal immigrants?

We love our Nations, our Gods and our Peoples. Thereby a faithful of the Gods will work towards the healthy benefit of our Peoples, Nations and Gods. It is simply as "moral" as Christianity was/is

May wisdom come to you

>>7964

It's easier for me to understand Paganism this way, through Christianity.

I stay away from sin because i love God, i do fasting, prayer, whatever. It gives me meaning to do this, otherwise why should i not go drinking, stealing, raping and killing?

The existance of a God also makes you not have a huge ego. For example, new agers have this huge ego about themselves; "im enlightened, im full of peace, love and joy". If we strive towards peace and joy for the sake of someone else, be it our ancestors or a God, it give motivation and a whole different meaning.

>>7965

Our ancestors became Christian in a similar way. We understood the values in monogamy, virtue, heritage, respect and in fact Hero worship.

Note that in Catholicism we have saint worship, such as saint George. Otherwise known as Hero worship, and in European heathenism dragon slaying is a common motif. People can claim that Heathens were immoral or unjust. In Reality most European peoples dealt with Homosexuals accordingly: Death. With adulterers: Shame and/or exile. In Heathenism we stay away from Sin not only because it is unnatural and degenerative, but also because Heathenism is a trade off. Not a cheap buy in scheme to renounce sin instantly, to receive good gifts in life and in death, one must act nobly and with good intent at heart. That does mean being a cuck, it's more similar to buying from a white owned grocery store instead of an Indians store and helping your neighbours

We do not have a huge ego, I can assure you. Heathens are in fact most often devout and believe firmly once they get in to it

The European faith is, in a massive way about Values, Virtues, Tradition, Community, Celebration. It's where Patron gods come from too

Where is the best place to learn about Druidism/Irish Paganism?

Anyone I've met who claimed to be a 'celtic pagan' was just a wiccan, vegan (the stupid kind, who fills their diet with shitty processed junkfoods) tool.

How do you define someone that is genetically "Germanic"? I1 or R1b haplogroups?

How are you meant to be taken seriously when all that was written about the Norse pagans come from outsiders, none who practiced the faith?

Also check em

>>8111

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Regius

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saga#Background

The skaldic poetry and tales of heroes were passed down and preserved in Christian times through an oral tradition which were eventually written down by monks.

While they were not written down by practicioners there is a chain of heritage which goes back to pre-Christian Scandinavia.

>>8091

I don't know of any reliable historical sources for information on Druidism. Caesar wrote something on the Gauls and the Druid's place in their society but it's widely regarded as bad scholarship. It's very likely that he made things up or distorted the truth so he could get more support for his conquests.

>>8116

I believe I read some of that, it was called bad scholarship because he basically said the Celtic gods were just the Roman gods under different names.

Is there any good moderate Asatru organization in the US?

I think the schism between folkish and universalist Asatru is killing us. I am right in the middle–I believe race and sexuality and such are non-issues. I don't care about those attributes–I judge a person blindly according to their skills and moral character–but I believe it's each individual's job to handle any negative shit other people give them for who they are. None of this heathens against hate bullshit, if you can't handle other people's ridicule, you're weak and I'm not going to help make society coddle you.

Is there an organization in the US with an outlook along those lines? Everything I've seen is either fuck-non-whites folkish or heathens-against-hate universalist, it's either one extreme or the other.

>>8170

Asatru Folk Assembly is Folkish (but not skinhead whitepower 88 gas the kikes).

Most non-folkish groups stand for nothing and are rife with sjw larpers inspired by the Thor movie.

I have had no interaction with members of The Troth but I have begun reading Our Troth volume one and it seems ok thus far, the articles on archeology, linguistics, discovery and revival are pretty interesting. Dissects aryan culture pretty well and juxtaposes aryan cultural theories with indigenous ones (apparently the Germanic cultures were less directly effected by aryan culture so possess unique primordial European traits).

The Troth split from the Asatru Alliance when they got their feeling hurt by some members who thought it really ought be for those with blood connections to the ancient practioners.

>>8171

edred thorson's connection to temple of set satanism had a smidge to do with it as well.

>>8112

if we want to go further, its been implied that snorri sturluson's father held odin in high regard (such that a woman tried to blind him with a knife to "make him like his hero, odin").

if "closeted" paganism survived this long…

Who is the christcuck moderator on /pol/ who keeps locking anti-christcuck threads?

>>8392

Not the guy you were replying to but I wonder the same thing.

I never really watched a lot of porn until I was deployed to Afghanistan. I hit the point where I watched porn when I woke up and went to be bed. Sometimes fairly vanilla stuff and sometimes anal creampie swapping gangbangs.

Was that degenerate?

Should I have just abstained for >6 months?

>>9903

I posted in another thread that if your parents named you something cucked a good compromise is to have your kinship rename you. I think you lose some of the magic of being named if you do it yourself and it cuts some of the larp factor (MY NAME IS GRIMNIR THUNDERAXE!!).

It just seems wholesome and right to have somebody else name you, but obviously your parents failed at that duty.

>>9911

I haven't, since I'm still in that inbetween phase.

I leaning towards this, but I'm not committing yet because I have no clue about my ancestry, since I was given up for adoption at birth.

I think it would be imprudent to be asatruar if I end up being latin or slav.

>>9912

Don't fall for the 23andme meme and sell your genes to jews. Get working on genealogy before the jews completely subvert that too (they're in the middle of it right now, get going!).

I'll tell you this though, in any research I've done it seems most authentic slavic heathenry vanished due to the prevalence of willing conversion and the lack of pre-christian writings. You might as well be an asatruar even if you were an ivan ivanoslav unless there's some massive body of research that only exists in vodkarunes.

>Latin

Latin as in Caesar Augustus? Or "latin" as in Cesar Lopéz? Nothing at all wrong with Jupiter. Tlaloc, on the other hand…

>>9913

Well, I just want to make sure I'm apart of the proper kin before I go making any leaps.

I actually had flirtations with asatru earlier in life, but fell off for the same reason.

>23andme

I wasn't going to use them. There's plenty of alternatives, from what I understand.

Is ancestry.com good, or has it become kosher?

>most authentic Slavic heatherny vanished

Shit. Well, from what I understand the Finns have preserved their folkways well enough they're not slavic, technically, but I don't rule it out

>Latin as in Caesar Augustus?

Of course. The mudskins of South America don't deserve to call themselves latin.

Amerindian is the better term.

If it helps, I'm a very tall guy with a broad figure.

Only problem is is that I have somewhat curly/wavy hair. Not afro kinky, but I'm afraid I might have semite down the line.

>>9915

>Is ancestry.com good, or has it become kosher?

>Ancestry.com LLC is a privately held Internet company based in Provo, Utah, United States.

Looks to be a mormon enterprise, not sure how good of goy that lot are. Can't you demand to know the name of your parents as an adult? You wouldn't even need to meet them, you could just dredge public records knowing their names.

As for your genetics, I'm not sure if they outsource to a kosher lab or not.

>Shit. Well, from what I understand the Finns have preserved their folkways well enough

There's rodnoverie and ynglism, but I cannot attest to the authenticity of either. I read cyrillic but don't have the vocabulary to really say I read any particular language. Most text regarding either are in russian so….

en*wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodnovery

en*wikipedia.org/wiki/Ynglism

Links broken because muh secret clubhouse

I can't tell if they're LARPing or not based on what is available in english, however. We have a few english texts but they're hard to corroborate.

>If it helps, I'm a very tall guy with a broad figure.

If I tore off that mjölnir, would you die?

>>9916

>Can't you demand to know the name of your parents

That's the thing, they didn't go through an adoption agency, they went through a lawyer.

My mother (adoptive) has no clue who they are or what their name is.

At this rate, a genetic test is the best option for me.

>mormons

I trust mormons more than Jews, so it's worth a shot I think.

>If I tore off that mjölnir, would you die?

It would be extremely shocking.

>>9917

>That's the thing, they didn't go through an adoption agency, they went through a lawyer.

>My mother (adoptive) has no clue who they are or what their name is.

I'm pretty sure I had read in a legal journal a case where it was passed down you had the right to know your birth parents ethnicity and medical information scrubbed of identifying info for your own health and medical wellbeing (e.g. bone marrow matching down the line). That might be a state, not federal, case though.

>I trust mormons more than Jews, so it's worth a shot I think.

I guess it can't hurt if you're out of options.

>It would be extremely shocking.

Was getting converted part of your plan?

>>9918

I'm not sure about the legalities surrounding adoption in my home state, so I'll have to do some research and see if I can viably get records.

If not, ancestryDNA it is.

>Was getting converted part of your plan?

Of coursh!

>>9919

If nothing else I'm sure if you explained your situation to a local kinship and also explained you were a heathen regardless of your blood (what you learn about your blood may merely change what precise heathenry you follow) they would at least let you show up. I mean, if you find your the grandson of Augustus or Boudica what are you really going to do? Fly to italy tomorrow? Hang out with wiccans? If nothing else you'd be amongst fellow pre-christians and I'm sure most wouldn't mind, even the hardcore völkisch would understand your predicament of being without local folk and at least let you socialise with fellow pre-christians at general kinship gatherings (even if you weren't allowed at sacred group rituals or something).

>Of coursh!

Well, what's the next step in your brilliant plan?!

>>9920

>Fly to italy tomorrow?

Nah, but I would like to go back to the land of my ancestors at some point.

>Hang out with wiccans?

KEK, I'd sooner become a Jew.

>general kinship gatherings

Well, I suppose it's worth a shot. Even better to get familiar if I'm actually germanic.

>Well, what's the next step in your brilliant plan?!

To burn this church, with no survivors!

I have trouble understanding the tale of Baldr.

So we know what happens to him (killed by mistletoe), but is he dead already?

Has Ragnarok started? If so, how long has it been going on?

If not, how do we know about Baldr's death? Is it meant to be taken as a prophecy?

Sorry for the ignorance.

>>9923

>So we know what happens to him (killed by mistletoe), but is he dead already?

He sits in hel's hall, yes. He exists, just not present in the greater world tree.

>Has Ragnarok started? If so, how long has it been going on?

Impossible to tell short of seven year winters or giant wolves running around or giant men with sparking hammers chasing world-sized snakes. Kind of feels like it sometimes, doesn't it?

>If not, how do we know about Baldr's death? Is it meant to be taken as a prophecy?

He will be reborn after the completion of ragnarok and the next turn of the cycle. There are many theological questions that come from all that though. Will Odin/Thor/Freyr/Everybody be reborn too? Is it perhaps a message that out of the chaos of each cycle only "the light of hope" survives when all else has been destroyed? And that new gods will have to be fashioned later just as new kings must replace the dead? Is it an allegory for general reincarnation? All of the above?

Has anyone worked on an FAQ in regards to the objections Christians bring up?

>>9931

Get me a list of objections and I'll be able to make a list of rebuttals. I'm much too busy with pre-christian theology and spreading the original faith to listen to all of the prattlings-on of the practitioners of semitic slave morality. Other than "LAL LARPIGEONS" and "OY VEUS GEVULT!" what do they even have? It's like /pol/ and /leftypol/, one of them builds their identity on being "not-thing" to our thing and have weak as fuck undank memes that only the already converted like.

>>9933

Here's a list of objections I could think of off the top of my head:

>Wouldn't one god make more logical sense?

>If there are many gods, doesn't that mean they're weaker than one god?

>If you're not a universal religion, how can you speak on a moral basis?

>What about the great recorded miracles attributed to the church? Doesn't that disprove your silly paganism?

I'm sure there's more they would come up with, but it never hurts to compile a rebuttal.

>>9934

Well ,off the top of my head back:

>Wouldn't one god make more logical sense?

Would one life make more logical sense? What kind of question is this? Name me one other thing in all of creation that is one-of-a-kind phenomenon other than the whole of the universe itself.

>If there are many gods, doesn't that mean they're weaker than one god?

If there are many mean, doesn't that mean they're weaker than one man?

>If you're not a universal religion, how can you speak on a moral basis?

If you're a universal religion, how can you speak on a moral basis to so many kinds of people and spirits?

>What about the great recorded miracles attributed to the church? Doesn't that disprove your silly paganism?

What about the great recorded deeds attributed to david copperfield. Doesn't that disprove both our silly religions? Besides, the point wasn't that the semites don't have gods capable of deeds, merely that they're inferior gods for our people and their followers breed weakness amongst our midst for their true followers to take advantage of.

You're right, something a bit more authoritative and sourced could be very useful, though. I have several contemporary anti-christian roman texts sitting on my desk which I'm sure could also make for some enlightened argumentation, from the mouths of the followers of the original gods themselves.

>>9935

> Besides, the point wasn't that the semites don't have gods capable of deeds, merely that they're inferior gods for our people

I think this is the biggest thing a Christian (or Jew and Muslim, for that matter) cannot comprehend.

The fact that we don't want everyone to hold the same religious views. If they were to argue against that, give them a friendly reminder that the Jews felt the same way about non-Jews for quite a long time.

>You're right, something a bit more authoritative and sourced could be very useful

That's the one thing the Abrahamaic faiths have that trumps us: a clearly organized codex and response to questions.

Not to mention that they've been so ingrained into society that people automatically assume the Judeo-Christian precepts without questioning their basis.

>>9936

>Well clearly that one god is winning lelkeks :^)

Not at Constantinople, Antioch, and Jerusalem :^^^)

Seriously, if they're going to use conquest and "winning" as a metric, all the more reason to remind them of the atrocities done to Christians and the land they've lost.

>>9937

>That's the one thing the Abrahamaic faiths have that trumps us: a clearly organized codex and response to questions.

We're already working on this actually. You're welcome to check out the PDFs thread or hop onto tox. It's mostly book club and book collecting, but as we add more texts and read more the theological discussions are getting much more grounded and expansive. I'm procrastinating from some monastic type text compiling to bake bread and answer questions today. I should probably stop that….

B024E8C4941418ED148C21370B398093D24272B21F7058D427170560D81D422D3110AF54AB5F

>Not at Constantinople, Antioch, and Jerusalem :^^^)

Also good points. But mine was that our gods alone are waging eternal war against their faith that requires the constant attention of YHWHs mortals to counteract, regardless of if our faith has any followers or not; trees collapsing churches, time unpoisoning minds, blood singing in the ears of men of their true origins. What does YHWH alone do robbed of followers? From ∞-300ad he didn't exist here despite being "the one creator god that exists in everything" and has relied on mortals to do all of his heavy lifting? Frankly sounds like a daemon-feeding cult if ever there was one.

>>9931

>>9933

>>9934

>>9935

>>9936

>>9937

The following thread is ripe with material for this topic:

>>351

>>9923

>Has Ragnarok started? If so, how long has it been going on?

The myths are not literal, they are metaphorical. Ragnorok is essentially the Norse version of the Hindu concept of 'Kali Yuga." In other words, it is a metaphor for the final stage of terminal decline and death that all civilizations and cultures go through.

Looking at the state of the modern West, I think it's safe to say that we are, bare minimum, in the early stages of Ragnarok, if not well into it.

>>9941

That's radical, man.

You have my respect for your dedication. Based on your experience, what would you recommend someone who's somewhat familiar with asatru for research and building?

>tfw budding asatruar in the deep south

Things are going to be strange in the coming years.

>>9942

Well, phase one was "know thyself", phase two is "know thy kin", and phase three is "know thy enemy". The PDF thread MEGA.nz has a large body of asatru material to get you started, with something stupid like 5+ different translations of each of the major contemporary texts and a good body of modern asatru-related works.

If you haven't already then obviously get the eddas, beowulf, the nibelunglied, the heimskringla, the works of saxo grammaticus, and pick up the several translations of havamal. For more recent works get "think again (like a heathen)" by michael smith and after that you'll want "summoning the gods" by colin cleary (I can give you that via tox, it's not yet in the archive), then with a bit of grounding in what makes one culturally heathen dive into the section "comparing asatru and wicca" to understand why wicca isn't really heathen and is the very worst of the neo-paganism, in fact after doing so read "against the neo-pagans" by julius evola and you'll find yourself agreeing with him on pretty much everything but the final "so just join catholicism lol" conclusion.

That's a solid basis to stand on and to start breaking down what made you modern and to fill it in with things to make you classic. From there you can look at the other stuff in the archive and see what you want from there, things like study guides, or specific materials that you will understand the cited material on. Also remember that good books are like friends, you don't meet them once and part ways forevermore.

>>9946

I appreciate the help, anon.

May the gods look favorably on you.

Wes thu hal.

>>9948

>>9949

sorry for the doublepost

fix this site, burning chariot

>>9949

>>9948

>>9949

sorry for the doublepost

fix this site, burning chariot

In what manner does the heathen prayer and sacrifice?

Should he only wait until high festivals to offer sacrifice?

>>9970

>In what manner does the heathen prayer and sacrifice?

Sacrifice and interaction isn't limited to the gods, nor is it particularly grandiose or high-sacred as it is commonly depicted. In fact in modern practice it's a bit of a tainted misnomer. It doesn't always involve monumental spillings of blood or painful tithes. In fact something as simple as tossing your compost bin in the forest instead of the compost pit a few times a year would be a nice sacrifice.

Or simply leaving an apple from your lunch in the forest after a peaceful hike as a gesture of good will to the various spirits is a particularly heathen thing to do. Or leaving a dram of mead for the gnomes/elves after a good gardening year. Or most important regularly visiting with and leaving items for the ancestors. These sorts of things are just as much sacrificial as offering a strong horse to Odin or the like. I hammer on this specifically because most people think of sacrifice in the judeo-christian way.

Do I just show up on christmas, give you a single gift, and wait another year to see you? You live imminently amongst your ancestors and various nonhuman spirits here on midgard even more than amongst the gods in asgard yet most people forget them in favor of a few-times-a-year interactions with the gods and only the gods. You can see the silliness after thinking about it as an original heathen would.

>Should he only wait until high festivals to offer sacrifice?

Not at all. Though it's nice to take part in festivals for the sake of community and recognition of important days or events when the energy is just right.

>>9971

Thanks for clarification, anon.

>>9971

>Or most important regularly visiting with and leaving items for the ancestors.

I assume that's for visiting family cemeteries and burial mounds?

If so, what if the ancestors buried there were all Christian or something?

And what about specific prayers?

Do we read out of the Havamal and stuff? Or is it more like a conversation with the ancestors and gods?

If so, are there set prayers that our ancestors prayed?

Concerning the afterlife, I know earlier questions were posed and answered, but I'm still somewhat conflicted.

It's recorded that in addition to Odin and Freya having halls, Thor has his own, too.

Is there any source that says if a person is devoted to a particular god/goddess, they might join them in their hall in asgard upon death (even if they don't die in battle)?

What are some good resources to read if I'm interested in learning more about the Indo-European pagan understanding of time? I've been thinking about it more recently and I feel like this is the key to understanding paganism. Everything seems to fall in place once you start to get it.

>>10022

So, with this all in mind…

>>10000 (GET)

>I assume that's for visiting family cemeteries and burial mounds? If so, what if the ancestors buried there were all Christian or something?

Do we think YHWH has a hall and a host for his souls? I can't really say one way or another, he sure seems to greedily want souls shoveled at him no matter what his followers have to do to get them so it's quite possible.

Did your ancestor live a particularly honourable life and die in a conflict (either a war, or something like being a police officer/firefighter killed in the line of duty)? Or were they particularly evil? Then perhaps they were chosen by blood and deed to be einherjar or denizens of niflheim/niflhel.

In both of those cases they're far away. I can't say what YHWHs visitation policy is for those he has trapped but I'm pretty sure Odin/Freya wouldn't mind letting a soul break away for a few minutes to consult with or console their kin. Hel, I guess it depends how she's feeling at the time for a neutral soul, I'm pretty sure the evil dead are stuck there as slaves until after ragnarok when then and only then they'll get their second chance.

If they saw the futility of christ and/or loved you very much they may well have chosen to go into the mound and try to linger with you as long as possible. My (christian) grandfather died young of an exposure condition and said he was sorry for leaving us so early and would do whatever he could to stay as long as he could… So I can't help but feel this is the case for him, at least. I would say that with no reciprocation or visitation those that go into the mount may eventually elect to move on…

If your ancestor reincarnated you may very well be walking the earth with them. Maybe your cousin is not your cousin? But also perhaps you could talk to their oversoul as their lesser self walks the earth?

In any of the three cases it cannot possibly hurt to try it anyway.

>And what about specific prayers? If so, are there set prayers that our ancestors prayed?

I say this with no NORSE authority, but with magical practice authority that those whom get hung up on wording are missing the point entirely. "Spiritum Speaktomeum" "Kinman spaekí meskr" "Hey dad, I miss you a lot…", the literal words don't matter, the energy of your being, the intention of your soul, those are the things in magic that matter.

>Do we read out of the Havamal and stuff?

Like what, to envoke them? If they don't even know what the havamal is do you really think it would mean anything to them?

>Or is it more like a conversation with the ancestors and gods?

It's conversational same as any other metaphysical relation. It's "spiritual semitism" that has made the spirit world distant and scary. There are stories of men marrying huldr-women and having children, or women marrying sea-spirits and having children or the alfs of the stones coming to help with the harvest… Before christ and his gaggle of wizards cursing "blessing" the land to be uninhabitable to the spirits "them thurr demons" they were not distant or remote at all.

Though you pretty much never speak with the gods directly. As I talked earlier about spirits and their practice, picture it as real life hierarchy. You should talk to your family and neighbors every day or few. So too should you talk to the spirits around you. When you have a problem do you go to the palace? Or your brother/neighbor? You may go to the mayor for a problem if you can't get help from around you, so too with greater spirits like giants or ettins. Only if the world is literally burning and giants are rampaging would you ever run yelling to thor/the king himself.

>>10002

>Is there any source that says if a person is devoted to a particular god/goddess, they might join them in their hall in asgard upon death (even if they don't die in battle)?

Only Odin/Freya care if you die in battle. But the other gods aren't exactly host-keepers as I said. If you were a hero of a given field and an exemplary figurehead like a world renown matron/matriarch you might go to them as a sort of "friggs little helper". Of course, we must always recognise that the written works may be incomplete. Maybe the gods have tons of souls they keep and Odin/Freya are only the super selective ones because they build an army. Maybe you only go to hel if your life was so uninteresting you weren't notibly good at anything. Even the texts fail us so if you wanna hang with Týr by being the best and most heroic damn police officer in the world don't let anything stop you. In our faith you should be trying to be the best damn <thing> anyway as matter of expanding your being and embodying the aspects. Maybe senpai will notice you for it?

>>10023

Final note on specific wording in magic: You may say very specific things to spirits on specific holidays or circumstances because some of them are very easily offended and your ancestors figured out that a specific wording worked and was deemed polite and would convince a spirit of something. It's more like a social handbook for dealing with non-human intelligences than the case that only these exact words in this exact order have COMPULSORY POWER over a being.

You tell me hello and please when you greet me and want something. If you say please am I forced to? If you run up to me and say "you give water me now" I might do it anyway, but it's certainly less likely as I'd think you insane or rude or both.

Invocations of how you'll complain to Thor if they don't leave may compulse them, but it's not the wording itself but rather that they don't want the man with the hammer to come bloody them for breaking the fríd of man and spirit. The word "cop" has no power over me but "leave or I'll call the cops" is very motivating!

>>10019

Go to our Mega.nz archive in this thread:

>>9731

In the "Germanic-Scandinavian-Anglo-Saxon Heathenry" folder in the 8chan Asatru PDF collection, go to folder called "The Well and the Tree."

>>10022

>"Into the mound/mountain"

I've heard this before, I knew that the folk placed a high value on ancestors, but I didn't know there was a belief that ancestors could stay around to help the family.

I don't mean to be prickly, but do we have any sources that confirm such beliefs?

>Or, you can end up in one of the halls

That makes sense to me.

But I suppose a man would have to do something extraordinary to impress the gods, I imagine.

>>10023

>Do we think YHWH has a hall and a host for his souls?

That's something I've meant to address.

What's our attitude toward other gods/godesses?

Are they real and only concern themselves with their people? Or are they the same as ours, just seen differently by other tribes?

In the case of YHWH, is he real for the Jews? Or can he be claimed by anyone of the Canaanite people, since he was their god of war?

>Though you pretty much never speak with the gods directly.

Not even in thanks? Man, that's going to take some time to get accustomed to.

>>10034

>I don't mean to be prickly, but do we have any sources that confirm such beliefs?

Specifically which beliefs? I'll try to flip through my library and recall where I saw whatever it is you wanted sourcing on.

Some basic primers of some of that would be Think Again (Like a Heathen) by Michael Smith, and Reincarnation: Sifting through the evidence by Bill Linzie. Besides general info on the likes of Hel or the halls of other gods which are from the source material specifically, the Eddas, Heimskringla and so on.

If you mean about the spirits, the most of the "-bóks" pertaining to magic and later works like Elves, Wights and Trolls by Kveldulf Gunndarsson.

The good news is everything I just listed is in the library I am procrastinating from building on at this very moment.

>>9731

>But I suppose a man would have to do something extraordinary to impress the gods, I imagine.

I would assume so, yeah. But like I said, perhaps not. Just because something isn't written doesn't mean it isn't real. We grapple with the reality of reconstructing that which was heavily fought against. It could indeed be the fact that all gods have their own hosts and those runestones where it was put down or those skalds who sung of it were merely destroyed or killed.

>That's something I've meant to address. What's our attitude toward other gods/godesses? Are they real and only concern themselves with their people? Or are they the same as ours, just seen differently by other tribes?

That's above my pay-grade to comment on with any authority right now. I would presume some other gods do indeed exist.

>Not even in thanks? Man, that's going to take some time to get accustomed to.

No not at all like that, I just mean in terms of asking them for something you don't go to them first. The reason you nearly never ask them for things is that most things are handled somewhere else, not that you cannot address them.

I notice a lot of metalheads and the like will invoke the gods directly for everything no matter how minor. If you need to clear out your garden this isn't "odin guide me" territory, talk to your alfs and gnomes about that. If you're in a boxing match this isn't "thor guide my fists" time.

You can talk to them any time, but it's not praying to jesus with a wishlist style stuff… Or even a sort of greco-roman thing where you pray to divided gods for "their thing", like to eros or aphrodite for love.

We have an entire world of spirits and beings and while you can talk to them all with soulsight it's just not purposeful to go right to the highest ones for every little thing. Odinn, being wise, patient and fatherly and understanding you were raised in a system that taught you that way would probably tolerate it a few times, but you can see how it would wear thin to be the all-father in constant preparation for ragnarok, managing the einherjar, scrying the universe for answers to protect all life from forces only you alone can fathom much less tackle… and then you feel a jolting of invocation and break a shard of yourself to see what it is about and it's something completely trivial and pointless, by somebody demanding and entitled.

Frankly, I'm sure the LARPists annoy nobody more than the gods themselves.

>>10035

>Specifically which beliefs?

The idea of reincarnation and staying in the "mound".

>The reason you nearly never ask them for things is that most things are handled somewhere else

I see. So all these spirits (some of which I assume include our ancestors) are our immediate go-to's when it comes to need and daily affairs?

>alfs and gnomes

I hate to be such a bother, but exactly how diverse are the spirits that we know of?

Christian here, why do you hate us so much?

>>10034

>I don't mean to be prickly, but do we have any sources that confirm such beliefs?

In the Mega.nz pdf library mentioned earlier, under the "Germanic-Scandinavian-Anglo-Saxon folder", go to the folder "Books by Bil Linzie" and pretty much read 'em all when you can. Especially:

after_life_bil_linzie.pdf

germanic_spirituality.pdf

and

reincarnation2.pdf as mentioned by >>10035

Read those first for answers to your specific questions.

Also under the same "Germanic-Scandinavian-Anglo-Saxon" subfolder, check out the folder "The Road To Hel" and read the pdf in there.

>Or, you can end up in one of the halls

That makes sense to me.

But I suppose a man would have to do something extraordinary to impress the gods, I imagine.

I would err on the side of taking that version of the Heathen afterlife with a skyscraper of salt. It, along with the Eddas have quite a bit of post conversion Christian influence. The "dying into a high god's hall" and having a personal relationship with one is essentially the product of Heathenry being influenced by the Christian (and generally Semitic) afterlife concept of going to a completely separate realm far away from the Earth upon death, as well as the "personal relationship with Christ" concept. Which neatly dovetails into:

>Though you pretty much never speak with the gods directly.

Not even in thanks? Man, that's going to take some time to get accustomed to.

To go into detail on what >>10035 elucidated:

Think of the high gods and goddesses as the equivalent of a tribal chieftain, or a mayor of a city, or even the President of the United States. There function is to protect and serve the tribes and people as a whole. Can you imagine how overkill it would be to drive all the way to the White House to ask the President with help with a minor personal problem of yours?

That's where alfs, land spirits, house spirits, wights, etc. come in. In contrast to the high gods and goddesses, they are your neighbors, friends and kin. Asking a local friendly wight for aid is like walking over to your best buddy's house to talk over a problem. They are the ones you should pray to on a personal level. The high gods and goddesses are for inspiration, and to pray to for major problems, or at high festivals, or to pray with the tribe to for aid. They are more for helping out your family line as a whole, then you as an individual. Bil Linzie's books go into more detail about this.

>>10022

> I'd postulate the truth is probably that she is a dual, schizophrenic, goddess that is both an unfortunately untalented and (socially) awkward but an otherwise caring and well-intentioned hostess of the "neutral dead" (for whom she makes the nicest hall she can, for living alone in the bleakest part of reality), and ALSO a greedy and uncaring soul-driver and tormentor of the dark souls she keeps for her father.

Hel, along with Freya and Frigga (and possibly Freyr), is more than likely just a heavily corrupted version of a much older Germanic goddess like Perchta or Holda:

>>9659

>>9660

>>9807

She probably has nothing to do with Loki, since it is more than likely that the Loki of the Eddas was just a character invented to function as a Norse equivalent of "Satan", since there is no pre-conversion evidence of this version of Loki (even the Snaptun Stone is from 1000 CE, right at the poin that the last of Heathendom was converted.The Kirkby Stone is from around that period as well, and the Gosforth Cross is even later.) Though there is some scant evidence of a Loki existing in pre-Christian times, he was more than likely a just a minor being.

>>10037

Is this bait?

>>10036

Honestly, don't worry to much about diversity and just pray to the local deities as a whole. I remember a discussion on Asatru Lore that basically explained this concept as labeling.

I.e. does this spirit help me? Then she/he is an alf or wight. Does this spirit harm me? Then she/he is a troll or jotunn.

Simple as that.

>>10039

>

>Is this bait?

No bait. Muslims hate us because of "muh crusades" and atheists hate us for obvious reasons, but what's the deal with pagans?

>>10034

>>10035

To go into more detail about "dying into a high god's hall" or having a "personal relationship" with them, or impressing them:

Impressing them to go into their hall is probably along the right train of thought. Both Linzie's works as well as "The Cutlure of the Teutons" (located in the Mega.nz archive under the "Germanic-Scandinavian'Anglo-Saxon" folder, in the subfolder "The Culture of the Teutons) explain Germanic spirituality as being hierarchical. With the gods tending to communicate on a more personal level with heroes, kings etc. Which is probably due to such individuals having the might and magn to carry out the will of the gods in the most effective manner possible.

Though I also have another theory as well to. I do think the high gods communicate with the rest of us occasionally. Just not in a prolonged or regular fashion. Sort've like a CEO at a Yuletide party going around to meet and greet and be warm and friendly with his subordinates.

>>10042

(cont'd)

Or sort've like those times when a President at a rally goes into the crowd and does meeting and greeting, shaking hands, taking pictures, etc.

Forgot my flag :DDD

>>10042

>>10043

Also this, it's an example shared with a lot of other pre-christian traditions. Heracles was hearing from a god every fortnight and eventually went to live with them. It really boils down to how valuable of a person you are. It's one of the things Evola touched on, how a whole city of people can be worth less than their king much like how a whole field of millions of ants is worth less than any one of us. Some power or worth is just not physical or visible to common eyes.

Another point of contention we have with christianity, "we are all equal under christ". Even if you take them at their word that is purely to do with the souls value to the supernatural that is still a level of marxism compared to us. Nobody is equal under Odin by any metric, not even their souls or their spirits. If you are equal in spirit, that at least plants some thoughts of equality, no? If you are equal in soul that exists beyond body, then all other differences are temporal and cosmetic, why NOT start treating each other equally now as it shall be in heaven?

What's asatru's stance on animal sacrifice?

I read somewhere that it's possible that someone could become an elf after death.

Is this legit, and if so, is it possible for someone to become some other kind of spirit after death?

>>10050

We generally do it and it is traditional expecially when you consider that blót(sacrifice), bloom, and blood are related words all related to life force in some way. However, I'm not sure if it is absolutely spiritually mandatory or not. If you wanted to offer something else of equal value as a gift other than an animal OR another hard to acquire food-stuff for a feast with the gods and spirits then I'm not sure how they would react. My gut instinct is to say it is the intention and the level of sacrifice that counts, but it's quite possible the life energy may be important. I would also presume it would also depend on the spirit, a troll may very well demand meat or blood in exchange to leave you alone or something while a harvest-alf might be quite joyful with some honey-bread as thanks for their efforts.

If you're asking if you could be a vegetarian, I don't currently see where it is written you couldn't be but one could just as easily make a circumstantial case that you couldn't.

>>10053

I have heard nothing of the sort outside of being an ancestor spirit of the mound. I guess you could call an ancestor spirit an alf in the categorical sense (helpful metaphysical entity) , but not the complete literal one (non-human).

I happen to believe in reincarnation coming from that sort of ThuleGesellschaft/SS school of thought but even I will say there are only passing tastes of it in the actual historical record and circumstantial evidence that since heathenry believes in never-ending cycles of rebirth and destruction that the soul shouldn't be any different if we go by the spirit of the mythology before it was tainted by missionaries and syncretism (that tainting having happened before snorri wrote down anything, ergo most of those sources should still be taken with a pinch of christian-filtration salt).

That said, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't just show back up as an alf for some random reason… You're not an alf, you're a man. Even when Baldr and Hödr are reborn it will be as an aesir because they are aesir. This is all wild speculation on my part, and I would posit wild speculation is really all anybody has until we have our own temples and gothi/mage/rune-guilds and somebody within them manages to talk to some gods or spirits about the matter themselves.

>>10054

I have to remember to refresh before I post..

>Even when Baldr and Hödr are reborn it will be as an aesir because they are aesir

Precisely, you are what you are.

This is the natural order of things.

>>10055

I was thinking about spiritual growth over lifetimes after I posted this. Perhaps you do indeed become a more powerful human soul over lifetimes and then shift to other states once you leave the "human bracket"… But in either case, most humans are stronger than most alfs at most things so why would you ever be reborn as one?

>>10056

Well, despite being what we are we can still push and grow and evolve. Doubly so on a spiritual level.

I guess it's not impossible to become something more (or less) than human. The spiritual level of (epi)genetics and breeding, if you will But it would be a very very slow process in either case.

>>10054

>>10055

http://norse-mythology.org/gods-and-creatures/elves/

This is where I read about the elves.

I'm not sure if this is an asatru sight or just a general encyclopedia, so I took it with a grain of salt.

>>10054

I see, only reason I ask is because some asatru organization in Iceland(?) that forbade and condemned animal sacrifice.

They want to marry fags, too, which is disgraceful to the ancestors

>>10060

They are cultural marxists and nothing more.

I know we place a great emphasis on familial piety, but what if your family isn't folkish?

Do we still honor them since they're our kin or do we disavow them for disgracing the ancestors?

Also, what's the case for any anons that were adopted?

>>10058

>Humans can apparently become elves after death, and there was considerable overlap between the worship of human ancestors and the worship of the elves.[10][11]

>[10] The Poetic Edda. Völundarkvíða.

>[11] Óláfs Saga Helga. In Flateyjarbók.

I just re-read the entire völundarkvíða and I'm not catching where they're getting this idea from. I haven't yet read the flateyjarbók but I'll give that a look after I get something to eat.

>>10059

>If we count being able to perform the ancient customs and communing with the gods as more than human, being more than human is just being human. Anyone of Jarls kin has this inherent ability to reach this state. The only question is how many lifetimes that will take.

This is also a theologically grounded theory. I would presume just as much as you can become more pure one can also become degenerated through the journey, however. Would also account for why our ancestors were literally marrying spirits back then and why most people these days, one-to-two-thousand years of christian spiritual degeneracy on, can rarely even see them in dreams. The average person's soul is barely attuned to what would be considered human in times past.

>>10060

>They want to marry fags, too, which is disgraceful to the ancestors

This should have been your tipoff to trash their opinions. We call those fags the practitioners of "Wiccasatru".

>>10062

>I know we place a great emphasis on familial piety, but what if your family isn't folkish? Do we still honor them since they're our kin or do we disavow them for disgracing the ancestors?

That depends to what degree they are not volkisch and to what degree they assist or fight you in doing so. Your fríd with your family doesn't vanish just because they or you convert. It is what made the christian actions in the past of turning brother against brother so vile to us.

>Also, what's the case for any anons that were adopted?

Your fríd is with your kin, not necessarily with blood you have never met. That's my take, anyway.

>>10064

>frid

I'm afraid I have no idea what that is.

It is equivalent to familial piety?

>your kin, not necessarily with blood you have never met

I assume you mean strictly immediate blood relations (parents, siblings, grandparents) rather than overall.

>>10060

Ásatrúarfélagið is dreadful, their blóts consists of people standing in a circle while the leader recites: "*mumble* *mumble* *mumble* Óðinn *mumble* *mumble* *mumble* heill." then he drinks from a horn and everyone has hotdogs.

>>10064

>We call those fags the practitioners of "Wiccasatru".

In Icelands case "Lutheranasatru" would be more apt.

>>10065

>I'm afraid I have no idea what that is. It is equivalent to familial piety?

Yes, but also no, but also yes but also no. Hop over to

>>9731

and grab "think_again" from "books by michael smith" in germanic heathenry. It is sort of an "idiots guide to foundation norse-germanic principles". Fríd could be thought of as peace, coexistance or harmony or bonds. You would still have fríd with your blood ancestors, but it would be much less than the built up fríd of those who cared to raise you when your blood wouldn't. You also have fríd with the local spirits and the gods themselves.

On that note I really need to get him to organise the library better into categories like "beginners material" or "spirits" or "magical rites" or whatever.

>>10066

>Ásatrúarfélagið is dreadful, their blóts consists of people standing in a circle while the leader recites: "*mumble* *mumble* *mumble* Óðinn *mumble* *mumble* *mumble* heill." then he drinks from a horn and everyone has hotdogs.

How absolutely terrible. I'm pretty sure even wiccans put more effort into their brand of fluffy and meaningless new-age idiocy.

>>10058

>>10064

This copy I have of the flateyjarbók is only pertinent to its sagas of vinland, and isn't a complete version. Apparently there is an extended version of St. Olafs Saga (Óláfs saga helga) later on where there is a mention, but even if that was the case this would be from the newest and most icelandic version of the story and so written in 1390-1500…

Doesn't look like you'll get to be legolas.

For my English-speaking friends, should we try to start calling Saturday by a different name?

Saturn is a Roman god, and our ancestors referred to it as "laugardagr" or "bath day".

What's the general heathen stance on morality?

Is it absolute or relative? If absolute, where do we infer these lessons from?

If relative, why should we care about living "properly"?

What's a ritual in Asatru like?

does anyone know of Asatru organisations in the Netherlands who aren't SJW degenerates?

also, how many of us here are Dutch?

>>10081

relative, good is what is good for the tribe and bad is what is degrading for the tribe. We care about living properly to benefit the tribe which will in turn benefit you.

>>10081

It's a sort of "absolute-relativism". We have an absolute morality to uphold for those who also (can) uphold it, but no responsibility to uphold it with those who themselves are unwilling or unable to uphold it. Also we have a series of ranking loyalties so if one is presented with an inescapable situation of wronging/harming a kinman or wronging/harming a foreigner or outsider, the foreigner or outsider is to be wronged/harmed. Similarly if you have the option of helping/patronising an insider/kinman or an outsider/foreigner then you do what is obvious.

In other words we have no universal pathological altruism or universally applied "fairness" like certain †††other faiths††† out there. If an ooga booga/allah takbir doesn't feel empathy, or doesn't act honestly, you owe it no empathy or honesty, much less to be doubly empathetic and honest to "shine a light of example to the world". You also owe the others and outsiders no equal opportunities or equal legal status.

Of course, we aren't jews either, if a kinman has legitimately wronged an innocent outsider they are to be punished same as any other kin who wronged kin. They had the ability to do better and didn't for absolutely no reason. Also, those actions hurt or fríd with other peoples of the world, our trade with them, and so on which hurts us all.

>>10082

I dunno, what's a ritual in hinduism like?

We have at least a hundred (more if you count magical practice) so you'll need to be more specific…

>>10084

>relative, good is what is good for the tribe and bad is what is degrading for the tribe.

I was afraid you'd say that. Most moral relativists I've met are weak and degenerate.

Who determines what is best for the tribe?

>>10085

Okay, that makes more sense.

Thanks for answering, anon.

>>10091

Well, do you know the ancestor in question? Like a grandfather? If you know something they liked, take it to them as an offering. If it was somebody you physically knew then there's not really a need to be all formal and polite. "Hey gramps, I got you one of those IPAs you liked. How's the other side?". You can see how it might be silly to act like you barely knew them, much less saw and loved them regularly for years.

Other than that it's more about honouring and spending time with them. It's not like you etch some runes in the dirt and chant some stuff or anything. You could certainly magic/luck up the place they were buried with idols and runes and the like if you knew how and had the permission of certain spirits before just chiseling into rocks and trees… But there's nothing stopping you from just showing up and a great-great grandfathers grave and leaving something nice and talking to them. If it's your first time with an ancestor you knew nothing about it couldn't hurt to take something. If it's your first time period, the life energy of an offering might help tether them more strongly and help feed their manifestation to make the interaction more meaningful.

I mean, not everybody was some wise and learned gothi of the rune guild who knew ALL THE MAGICS. There were millions of common people who would just leave a pint or a little carving for each of their forefathers, say hello and get back to life. You don't even need an offering every time if you're seeing them regularly, your time and remembrance are offerings of their own. In fact, if you rigid up and think you need to say exactly "sim sim sallahbim" every time while leaving a perfectly carved rune at exactly 37 degrees north you're not going to do it right just because of how tense and distant you are emotionally, stressing out about exacts that don't even matter.

>>10094

I see.

Well, I'm not that knowledgeable about my ancestors, so maybe I'll just go somewhere in nature and spend some time.

Not sure what kind of offering to leave them, though.

>>10095

>Not sure what kind of offering to leave them, though.

Can't go wrong with alcohol. Mead is a favourite of drinkers across the ages, but a nice ale can't hurt either. Food and drink in general is what most blóts are offering. Maybe make a wood-carving and leave it? You could certainly offer an animal and their blood were you able (might offend a vegan ancestor…).

Also keep in mind if you're going into the forest doing magical type things that you yourself can be the recipient of blót, if you ever meet a spirit and they offer you food, or a gift (no matter how stupid it seems) don't refuse it. A single blade of grass, once accepted, can turn into a full magic stave, a pebble into a bar of gold, etc. Or, maybe it's just a blade of grass or a pebble, do you think a few cuts of meat impress Odin that much, per se? It's the thought and communion that counts.

>>10097

>Can't go wrong with alcohol. Mead is a favourite of drinkers across the ages, but a nice ale can't hurt either. Food and drink in general is what most blóts are offering. Maybe make a wood-carving and leave it? You could certainly offer an animal and their blood were you able (might offend a vegan ancestor…).

Interesting, at least I have a pool of votive options.

But I think I might need to hold off on getting/making any statues, considering I live in the deep south.

>>10095

>>10097

>>10098

I've also had good results offering jewelry to Freya and weaponry to Odin.

>>10102

>I've also had good results offering jewelry to Freya and weaponry to Odin.

Do you mind sharing your experiences, friend?

>>10098

>Interesting, at least I have a pool of votive options.

Sky is the limit. Though mead is the finest drink in all of creation for anybody who lives alcohol. Nice warmth, none of the astringent burn that makes you wince your face, a sublime back-end. Nobody in creation will say no to mead. Hey, got any mead?

[lip-licking intensifies]

>But I think I might need to hold off on getting/making any statues, considering I live in the deep south.

Everybody needs a craft. Making offerings is just a plus. There's entire magical school of sculpting and imbuing energy into idols for magical works, can't go wrong with that as a craft if you want to be a wizard.

Or if nothing else, just leave offerings of whatever your mundane craft is, when you spend time and focus making something you leave some of your intention and energy in it all the same.

>>10105

Seconded, I'm always game to hear the results of others works.

>>10108

>a craft

You mean something like woodcarving or smithing?

I've actually been tempted to do something like that, but I'm not sure what I can do best.

If it helps, I have a high interest in linguistics, folklore, history, and the runes. I'm not opposed to hard crafts, though.

>>10109

Well, I clearly read a lot to pass on all these answers (I'm also active in the PDFs thread if you didn't notice). But I myself also have a slew of practical skills and skills to make things. Even the wizards actually do things in our world. In fact, when it comes to equipment or paraphernalia, making your own is the best way to be attuned to it, energetics is everything. I guess you could say in regards to magics I woodwork the most for idols, charms and staves. It can take tens or hundreds of hours to make something great, shouldn't that be time you are dumping your intention and vibrations into it? As opposed to a random craftsman just making a symbol and dumping tens or hundreds of hours to making it with who knows what going through his head? Even if they're a heathen maybe they aren't focusing on the magics or energies of it? Magical crafting is a hybrid-trade all its own.

>>10111

>Magical crafting

So, for example, carving out runes from wood?

>>10112

Making idols, staves, charms, jewelry, wards, etc.

But yes carving runes and sigils is a part of it.

>>10113

I'll have to look into that, then.

Maybe I could make my own little pocket idol.

>>10113

are their any things I should be careful of when carving one? I mean carving runes can have a negative effect when you don't know how to use them properly, so does the same thing count for carving statues?

Is there a list of heathen assemblies?

Has anyone here actually done animal sacrifice?

How does someone use the runes for divination?

Has anyone considered fostering relations with other European pagan groups (Hellenic/Roman, Slavic, etc)?

>>10140

If you show me another group of völkisch/racialist heathens/pagans we'd be glad to, but they don't seem to exist much. The next largest group of heathens are celtic poly/pantheists and they're a gaggle of cucks that would make the christians blush.

Is there a heathen equivalent to the Sign of the Cross?

I've heard conflicting opinions on whether or not the Christians took the overall formula of the sign from us or not.

>>10148

if you mean the thing where they touch their head and nipples in a weird order I would say no, we don't have a need for it. Of course the Hitler greeting would suffice for some…

>>10151

ps: There's also as I recall an icelandic gesture that basically involved putting your right fist in front of your face and pressing your shoulder across your chest to make out a hammer when greeting somebody at a distance. It is, as I recall, one of the syncretic "well this is awkward I don't know who follows what gods" rituals like wearing a necklace of mjolnir or a cross that arose in late era norse society. I'm not sure if it ever existed before the late era or anywhere else but iceland, though.

Does asatru have totem animals?

>>10160

Just asking, anon.

>>10161

Yeah I know, just having a little fun with m8. It was more colourful than a bland "no, not really".

Though it also is kind of important to gird against pantheist influences in polytheism.

>>10163

I can imagine why, since most modern pantheists tend to be fruity hippy types.

Now if they were like the Stoics, that would be great.

>>10164

If they were like stoics they wouldn't be pantheist wiccans. The rest of us can appreciate how europeans are at least loosely one race (or started as one) and how our divine essences can be somewhat stitched to one another as being divergent shards of perkwunos and ingwaz and frawjaz and etc. without going full retard about it and joining a "crunchy" seattle commune.

>>10165

Very true.

But speaking of that, what about the philosophies?

Are they compatible with heathenry, or is it more of a Greek/Italic phenomenon?

>>10166

In my opinion? The philosophies are secular greco-roman polytheism as liberalism is secular christianity as nationalism socialism is secular heathenry as communism is secular judaism. By that, one is a spilling over of lines of thought that reflect the foundational conclusions and morés of said religion but that don't necessarily involve the metaphysical at all.

You can then have secular atheists who are still any of the above because they reject they metaphysical but still operate under the rest. Dawkins is, by his own admission, "culturally protestant".

>>10167

>culturally protestant

Absolutley disgusting.

At least he could choose something like cynicism (as in Diogenes) or something.

>>10168

>>10168

>choose

It's pretty damn hard to choose a new culture. We all struggle with not bringing the cultural christianity we were brought up in and with picking up a culture we have never lived amongst as we change over to a new way of thinking. He was raised protestant and hasn't put in the work to particularly alter it. I would say we're reaching the point atheism is practically a religion and so one could be "culturally atheist"… but I would kind of argue modern atheism is an offshoot of christianity and that it is, as it claims, "christian disbelief in all other gods +1". The arguments a christian makes against polytheism, the atheist applies once further.

>>1345

If you read the Finnish myths, and perhaps the Slavic ones though I haven't looked into them, they are as closely tied to Germanic paganism as Germanic is to, say, Roman.

Which is to say, they have a common root. And so do we, as Europeans, have a common root in the Neanderthal. That genetic memory is likely what keeps bringing us back to paganism, even as it's been vilified.

Blacks don't have that genetic memory. Neither do Asians. Perhaps some Indians do, but they seem to prefer their own faith generally.

When possible, go as close to home as you can, but borrowing rituals from Asatru while worshiping Finnish deities is likely not the worst you could do and I'm not certain any deity would ever be offended at someone trying their best.

>>10179

>Blacks don't have that genetic memory. Neither do Asians. Perhaps some Indians do, but they seem to prefer their own faith generally.

You mean in terms of being descendants of neanderthals?

Because I'd presume the various tribes of sub-saharan Africa could share a common folk heritage if one goes back far enough. Same with the Asians.

Are there any blots that involve burn offerings?

>>10251

I'm not aware of any, but I'm by no means perfect. The logic behind votive offerings is that the spirits are presumed actual co-denizens, it's a bit like:

>Happy birthday Anon! Come to the back yard so I can burn the Xbox you wanted in your honour!

>…What the FUCK, Dad?!

As for the gods and blood sacrifices, as far as I know the offering is one of life energy and not the material animal itself which a mostly immaterial god has no use for. The yule I know of you offer a horse's life and then eat the meat in their/the gods honour. Not really anything besides smoke to be gained by the gods if you then incinerate the corpse. Burning bodies and longships aren't offerings as I understand it but rather a general practice of cremation.

If somebody has an account of burnt offerings though, by all means.

>>10440

I'm not sure how to do so. Like you -> thou? Or the other way around?

>>10440

GLÜCK AB PUTSCH-CHAN

In magic the words barely matter but the intention and energy behind them. In english you can be respectful without a separate collection of pronouns. In Asatru we're not the sniveling cultists of an angry god but the children of the gods.

So I'm not sure we need a certain "magic formula" for addressing them a la the cathoLARPs. Simply a mutually respectful spirit conveyed in basic langauge… We've always been a religion of people instead of a religion of priests so your average haggard farmer or burly warrior probably wasn't the most eloquent of speaker but had his heart in the right place.

>>10442

>but the children of the gods.

It definitely once was the case, were it was normal that children talked to their parents using formal pronouns. It's not about a "magic formula", but a sign of respect, a sign of hierarchy.

>>10441

In English, "you" is the formal version of addressing people, but since you use it for anyone, it kind of lost its value.

>>10447

Huh, I didn't know that early modern English used "you" for formal addresses. As far as I know, in old English there was no consideration of formality; only number ("þū" for singular, "gē" for plural (weirdly, also "git" for plural when there are only two addressees)). Maybe we adopted the French custom of addressing single people with plural pronouns when being formal?

>>10448

Well, check Wikipedia. "You" used to be the formal form, while "thou" used to be the informal form. Apparently it came with the Normans, yes. I don't know how it was with all the other languages who have that distinction though.

From Wigoypedia:

>In Anglo-Saxon times, these were strictly second person singular.

I guess this is a case against the formal pronouns, since at least they didn't have them.

Agnostic Christfag here.

I have no problem with you guys,

Here's the question.

Is afterlife really real guys? I have been nervous, scared and depressed to the idea and concept of Eternal Oblivion

>>10506

You've been shitposting this all over /pol/.

Why are you afraid of nothing?

You shouldn't revel in it like the jews do, but it is nothing to fear.

Personally I believe we reincarnate until we have learned what we need to and only then might we reach another plane.

Even that afterlife will end however, only to begin again.

>>10506

depends on who you're asking

the Greeks, which is to say Homer, had an afterlife but it certainly was not like that of Christianity, it was an underworld, Hades, and that implies the afterlife was inferior to our present life. Achilles says as much when he tells Odysseus off in the Odyssey that it is better to fight and die a glorious death than to merely survive, implicitly saying that he hates the underworld and Odysseus might as well be living there considering how he treats his blood life, that he deserves to be alive and not Odysseus.

>>10508

>revel in it like the Jews

the opposite is true; the Jews wanted to sweep it under the rug by explaining it away as Yahweh had total control over everything.

the terror of Death is actually very Goy. The Jews wanted to pretend that death is meaningless, like everything else, and that was all part of the sugar coated shit-pill for the goyim.

>>10508

I am afraid of it because that would mean I longer no exist and also seeing my loved ones die.

>>10510

But if you do not exist you can not see your loved ones die, or even suffer.

Shouldn't you welcome this nothingness from that perspective?

Again, I do not believe nothingness eternal will come. At least not in a spiritual sense.

Everything is a circle, all that has been will be again and all that will be has been before.

>>10511

>>10515

alright,

me again here

another question.

Show me redpills (remember i'm agnostic) against Christianity and the Christianity and I will finally worship the religion of my ancient ancestors. (i'm Bulgarian, born on the border Bulgaria/Romania)

>>10531

>Christianity and the Christianity

my mistake, i meant Christianity and the Xtians*

>>10531

An fleshed out argument against christianity would be about three books so I cant really dive into that fully. But I can give you the tl;dr lines of thought. I'm assuming you reject liberal egalitarianism and modernism? Accounts vary as to if all early christians were expected to sell all they own and communise their funds with the church…

But at the very least even the most /pol/-tier christian submits to the point that galatians means that there is a spiritual/ideological equality and that slavery is forbidden under christ between all of humankind:

>Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Now, they may tiptoe around the fact that it never says anything about biological or material equality… But the fact abounds that the principles of egalitarianism were based on that "All men were created equal and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights". It was the first skidding on the slope that finds us to today. Never before in history had western society slid in such a way as we have. Decline, decadence, weakness, yes… but never such a sickness of soul as the equality movements of today that despite us still being strong of mind and body leave us weak of will and spirit.

The church as a western institution? Arguments on the absorption of western principle are by the churches own definition heresy second only to changing the canon itself:

>De Praescriptione Haereticorum:

>These are "the doctrines" of men and of demons produced for itching ears of the spirit of this world's wisdom: this the Lord called "foolishness," and "chose the foolish things of the world" to confound even philosophy itself. For (philosophy) it is which is the material of the world's wisdom, the rash interpreter of the nature and the dispensation of God. Indeed heresies are themselves instigated by philosophy.

>From all these, when the apostle would restrain us, he expressly names philosophy as that which he would have us be on our guard against. Writing to the Colossians, he says, "See that no one beguile you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men"

>What indeed has Athens to do with Jerusalem? What concord is there between the Academy and the Church? What between heretics and Christians? Our instruction comes from "the porch of Solomon," who had himself taught that "the Lord should be sought in simplicity of heart." Away with all attempts to produce a mottled Christianity of Stoic, Platonic, and dialectic composition! We want no curious disputation after possessing Christ Jesus, no inquisition after enjoying the gospel! With our faith, we desire no further belief. For this is our palmary faith, that there is nothing which we ought to believe besides.

And even if this heresy was undertaken, why do you need an 80% european, 20% semitic belief system? Why not just follow a 100% european belief system? As is pointed out in http://www.counter-currents.com/2013/07/why-christianity-cant-save-us/ the return is too low and the cost is too great.

For every positive of christianity I can show you the tradition of it being a european element or of having a european parallel. For every cancerously altruistic or egalitarian element of christianity there is no european parallel. So then the question becomes not "why not christianity?" but rather "WHY christianity?"

>spend part of a day out in the woods

>"meditate" upon and chant the word/rune hagalaz because it was the only thing I could think of for some reason

>after a while strong gusts of wind caress my face and a murder of crows start cawing loudly and circulate above me

>the next day it hails pebbles for the first time in at least a year

>when it stops I remember the day before but question the significance

>a few minutes after doing that, loud thunder is followed by pebbles thee times the size roaring down

Coincidences, but it definitively meant something more to me.

>>10083

I'm flemish, afaik we're out of luck

>>10083

>>10543

"Be the change you want to see in the world" - Satviri Devi, Ride the Tiger: A Survival Manual for the Aristocrats of the Soul

>>10542

Coincidence and luck build up into a world of actual and regular happenings. Glad to see your path is paying off.

>>10561

>Does anyone know where I can find out more about hyperborea/thule? I've been looking for a few days now and all that comes up is new-age hippie shit. Also, the only place I've shortly read about it is at the burzum website.

Good question. /pol/ once had a particularly interesting thread on the matter, but I don't seem to have saved it to .html, disappointing.

I do know of this, however. https://mega.nz/#!dtgnzLQL!DmRwKwADS8MRGw58N8IgFkn7m4UFCHuDmBF0NdUEJC4

Past that I'm not of much help beyond hearsay and rumour. I'd dig into it myself but I already spend hours a day on library work so it would be on a very back burner.

>>1844

Haha good idea.

I think we might have too low a posting rate to carry out effective raids, es call against halfchan.

If we schedulled raids a few days in advance, we might be able to get enough posters online at once.

>>10083

>>10543

You guys really should start your own then. Do it right.

Take notes from the AFA.

Dont be edgefags, make is attractive to our brothers and sisters, but also assert yourselves as it being proudly European.

Dont compromise for anything.

>>10575

Kek numbing this idea

1. Are the Gods just real people that led extraordinary lives? And people remembered them for so long that it gave them some kind of extra power boost in the afterlife? Or are they divine other beings?

2. Has anyone had a near death experience that involved any kind of asatru experience?

Is there anything stopping a group of heathens from making a human sacrifice?

For example, if the human was willing and wanted it, would there be any reason to say "you guys should not do this because of ____"?

>>10083

goedenavond, kankerlijers

i'd say friesland, drenthe and gelderland would be good places to look, frisian nationalism is one of the few kinds of nationalism that is really tollerated, and the saxon spirit really lives among the gelders. as for drenthe, i think heath attracts heathens.

>>10678

ken jij persoonlijk dit soort groepen?

Ik ben niet bekend met het platteland helaas.

>>10671

bumping these good questions that I don't have the answers to

>>10671

>>10698

>1. Are the Gods just real people that led extraordinary lives? And people remembered them for so long that it gave them some kind of extra power boost in the afterlife? Or are they divine other beings?

What does the distinction matter? It is one of origin, not one of nature. Empowered ultra-ancestor, Über-tulpa, Interested patron other-being of unfathomable nature to those of us in 3d… They're here now and do what they do. I doubt we'll ever know, but you're welcome to ask them.

>2. Has anyone had a near death experience that involved any kind of asatru experience?

Living dreams, sure, but thusfar I've thankfully never been closer to death than asleep. As to if it's "ever" happened, I can't really say.

>>10706

Central*

>>10704

>Living dreams

go on…

>>10706

>What should us Bulgarians worship?

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Bulgaria

>temples of Osiris and Isis have been discovered near the Black Sea coast.

It certainly looks like you have had a diverse background. I would look into what your family history is in particular, given that there seems to be an eclectic mix of people in your region.

But I think it's obvious that you should stick to the Greek pantheon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracians#Mythological_foundation

>>299

Why haven't you praised Kek?

>>10706

>WE WUZ CENTRAL ASIA AN SHEEIT

Pan-turanism is one hell of a drug

Is there a fruit that symbolizes family?

I want to be an asatruer (need to read more and other shit) but now this time of year, I feel really drawn to Christianity. I know it's foreign but it's helped shape European culture over the past 1000 years, whether for good or bad. But so much of our history is and culture comes from, an extent, Christianity, and I don't think I can not celebrate Christmas in the traditional way.

My only real beef with Christianity is it's Semitic and the anti-nationalism/everyone is equal bullshit.

I know it's not a question, I'm just rambling.

>>12858 But so much of our history is and culture comes from, an extent, Christianity,

Just no. Every single thing that is decent and not semitic in christianity comes from our European blood. Read this fine gentleman's words >>10534

>>12863

>just no.

>>>/tumblr/

:^)

But what do I do about Christmas. Like I said I love the feel of Christmas and the celebration, songs, but all of that is christian, can I still celebrate Christmas (which is the birth of Christ) as an asatruer?

>>12864

Why though? Everything about christmas is pagan if you removed all the pagan elements from christmas all you have left is a manger and baby jesus. No tree, no lights, no holly, no mistletoe, no Santa (His image is norse as fuck one can argue he is modeled after Odin given that during the Wild Hunt Odin would leave presents in people's stockings if they left out hay for Slepnir), Wassail is an ancient Germanic drink, etc. If you love Christmas carols so much rewrite them to have Heathen themed lyrics.

I do this every year and when I have kids and raise them heathen I will just tell them Santa is just another guise of Odin (he has been known to take on different appearances through magic)

Besides Christmas has not been about Jesus in a long time.

>>12864

Here I will start

"Hark the herald Valkyrie sang

Glory to the One-eyed king!"

See it's easy

>>12866

>>12865

>AtLastITrulySee.jpg

>>12866

But that's a bit too larpy for me, I guess I'll just listen to the non christian songs, like Weiße Weihnacht and some Wardruna

>>12867

"Jingle bells", "Deck the Halls","Let It snow", "Rudolph the Red-Nose Reindeer" are pretty neutral. Me myself I love "O Holy Night" but just because you like a song does not mean you have to agree with the lyrics.

>>12886

"""Slavs""" are really eastern germanic though

>>12886

You are not a slave. Do not pray for favors or ask like a beggar. Honor their nature and let their memories give you wisdom and encourage you to grow the strength to accomplish your own goals, with your own hands.

Meta question for the BO or vols here.

How do I make a nice rules page on my board like the one you have? I like the blue title bars with the bold text but I don't know how to do it. Also how do I link them in the board announcements like you have here? If you decide to help me please then explain like you're talking to an idiot.

I would ask on /sudo/ but all I get there are goons and snarky comments.

>>13041

Here's an example HTML XML formatting for a rules page:

<p>Board Description Example</p>

<h2>Rules Examples</h2>
<p>
<b>1.</b> Rule 1.<br>
<b>2.</b> Rule 2.<br>
<b>3.</b> Rule 3.<br>
<b>4.</b> Html Link <a href="https://8ch.net/asatru/res/2.html"><strong>Html Link</strong></a>.
</p>

<p>Example paragraph. </p>
<p>Link to another thread: <a href="https://8ch.net/asatru/res/2.html">>>2</a></p>

<h2>List Example</h2>
<ul>
	<li>123</li>
	<li>abc</li>
</ul>

Try copying it into your rules page and then set the markup method setting to "html".

https://8ch.net/asatru/example.html

>>13043

I will try this. Thank you!

>>10678

>>10680

>>10083

I'm dutch and a newbie to norse religions. Some anon in the nederdraad on /pol/ said he had contact with non-pozzed asatru groups in The Netherlands so i'll see if he delivers

>>4145

The Prose Edda is a good start, though I'll warn you, it's written by a christian and therefore interpreted through a christian lens

I'm new to Asatru and as someone who hunts, I've been thinking of offering parts of what I kill, will it be appreciated and if so, how should I go about it? Also I've been thinking of sacrificing one of my shotguns (barely ever use it) how would I go about that as well?

>>9916

Mormons are a decent place to go. Something to do with finding out your heritage/history leading to a better heaven/salvation for them. My mother actually managed to trace a branch of her family as far back as there is written record.finding out you're descended from Charles Martel is pretty cool so long as you dont have any family that is caught up in scandal or something relating to the church's foundingwe aren't sure what happened exactly. Just that whenever we request information about one specific individual in less than 24 hours the info we request gets "lost" but they're a great resource for most things

>>13240

http://www.counter-currents.com/2015/10/asatru-as-a-living-tradition/

>>10151

>schwurhand

I thought that was a Christian thing?

>>13882