/v/ - Video Games

>>16871948

I would highly suggest playing a private server of Phantasy Star Online before playing PSO2, then once you play PSO2 you can compare both of them. I've only played Phantasy Star Universe so I couldn't tell you but I'm sure there are anons here who can tell you why PSO is better than PSO2. Sadly the only private server for PSU is in a slow beta phase.

>>16871962

Well I'v got some time to kill, and I don't half ass things, I whole ass them

I'v started the original Phanasy Star, by emulating the Japanese Phanasy Star Collections on PS2, due to embed related's recommendation of it being the optimal way to play the original 4 games, and the menu's are mostly in English text anyway.

I'll slowly work my way up from there, until at least the release of PSO2

>>16871948

I hate to burst your bubble, but modern PSO2 is shit. The west completely missed out on PSO2's golden era. The reason I say this is because progression in PSO2 is 90% gear based, and any gear worth having is locked behind emergency quests that only show up when Sega decides to force it to happen. If something you want is in a quest that's not the new hotness, you're pretty much fucked. Also, the drop rates are fucking abysmal, like less than 1%. There was a brief period where Sega had a system where you could work your way to what you wanted, but for some inexplicable reason, they decided to scrap that system and go back to sub 1% drops that only show up in quests you might miss out on because of work or other obligations. The icing on the cake? Even if you get the drop you want, you now need FIVE MORE to draw out the full power of the weapon.

The infuriating part is that you're right. PSO2's combat is fun as fuck if you're playing one of the advanced classes, but the complete absence of decent drops after literal years caused so many people to drop the game that they decided to do a hail mary play with a western release. The only reason I didn't drop it when it went to shit was because every other online game is so much worse.

tl;dr - you're going to be disappointed in everything about PSO2 except its combat.

Just play team deathmatch shooters or battle royales, that's closer to what you want. Stop diluting MMOs with muh juice combat.

>>16872014

Fun fact: i've always half-assed my gear improvement in MMOs so odds are hilariously good that i wouldn't be phased by it.

>>16872014

>you're going to be disappointed in everything about PSO2 except its combat.

Well the combat is really the only thing I have any expectations for at all, so I'll cross that bridge for everything else when I come to it. While I'm sure you know what your talking about, it's still has to be a fun time playing with tons of other fresh off the boat people who also never played PSO2.

>>16872081

>Goons Online

It's not for everyone I guess.

Can't wait for the

>everything is wow's fault

and

>diablo 2 is a mmo

autists to show up.

>>16872168

Chess NET is an mmo because there are millions of connected players at any time

I've just watched some videos to get quick updates on some MMORPGs I was waiting / had hopes for.

The absolute state of the genre holy shit.

>Crowfall

>Ashes of Creation

>Camelot Unchained

The shit those fuckers pulled off, I'm speechless.

Kickstarter scams, release never ever.

AoC making a Battle Royal game to sell for quick cash grab with cash shop and all.

CU doing fuck all for 6 years and now also releasing some shitty game to get quick bucks instead of working on the MMO.

I just don't fucking know anymore.

>>16872303

>Camelot Unchained fuckery

It honestly throws me for a loop what the hell happened there. I only found out about that shit yesterday. All I wanted was a fun MMO with a great crafting system so I can have fun with my bro. The CLOSEST I have ever come to achieving MMO nirvana was Wurm Unlimited with you fags on Broschwitz. Yes it was grindy, but everyone having fun shitposting and messing with other server regulars while building up a place to call home was the fucking dream.

I can only hope Camelot forgets about the single player game, investors be damned and focuses on giving us something good. I want a crafting system as autistic as what they advertised. I will not settle. For anything less.

>>16872168

NIggers call PSO an MMO. If that is then so is Diablo. Marketing execs have convinced people that a <10 player game with a chatroom is an MMO now.

>>16872379

still play on nip server and never payed a dime

But yeah, its not a great game.

Good character creator though

>>16872510

>In US servers prices tend to go crazy high tho

It makes sense considering our love of censoring beautiful women in cute outfits. The sexual castration of America's virtual girls has left a void the Japanese can, should, and will gladly fill with their own variety of smut. God bless the Nips

>>16872578

If all else fails at least we'll have shitty nukiges to fill the void

>>16872314

Playing older MMOs is more fun and relaxing because when you play new ones you feel like you're in a competition with people to get the best gear or clear the hardest content. Most of the "hardcore" players moved on from the old ones so you mostly see chill people.

>>16872651

It already is an MMO, twice over.

>>16871882

Most MMOs have always been shit. It's a genre that has been dominated for decades by shitty f2p Korean grinding games filled to the brim with microtransactions.

>>16872803

If you really have willpower it's even easier to NOT PLAY pointless games designed around microtransactions and nickle-and-diming the player for things that used to be part of the game with no price tag attached.

People like you claim moral superiority because you play these trash games but don't give the devs money. But the only reason the devs can go hunting for whales is because an ocean of people like you exist for them to live in. Whales don't prop up games with no playerbase. Maybe years down the line when the sheep have all left, but not out of hte gate. It's you and your ilk, playing whatever dreck is shovled out of the monetisation and marketing offices that creates the habitat for whales.

Whales do not pay for the development of a game. They pay for the execs who own the company that makes the game to have an extra house in the bahamas. These games cost peanuts to make. The extra content added is just shysterly faff and nothing. "Here's 12 hat reskins for $120! Thanks for supporting the development of the game, goyim."

>>16872992

I'm honestly not talking about the Sega mobile game as some kind of high quality game i'm a bad ass at, that fact i played one is being overstated as more important then I actually think it is, I'm mostly thinking of Let It Die, and how I was one of the top TDM players in my country, or how I know i'm not a bitch who needs to buy Super costumes in DMC4 or 5.

But the point stands when there is any kind of system that compares you with other players, it is an objective mark of superiority when your at the top, and if you didn't pay for an advantage that is an even bigger mark of being objectively better then people at the game, sure it's not actually impressive to be good at a mobile game, I don't stroke my dick about that one in particular, but it's an objective fact I was better then other people.

I only brought up the mobile game as an example as to why I'm not worried about PSO2 being too Jewish with it's Micro-transactions, since I'v already played a Sega Mobile game with them, and mobile games are 10 times more manipulate, yet unlocking content was reasonable.

>>16873574

It's the same as the gachashit players who think they are special for advancing in their gacha games without paying any money. Okay, but at the end of the day you are still playing a shitty pseudo-game that's only purpose is to get you addicted.

>>16873574

>>16873579

As I explained to the good goyim above, these games don't just want whales. They want plenty of people feeling an undeserved sense of moral superiority. Because whales wont play with just whales.

These shitty game wouldn't exist without useful idiots like >>16872975 to prop up the system. They are what draw the whales in. And in the process encourage devs to make these shitty low effort cash grab games.

But the idiot thinks it's fun. "Hey anons it's only horse armour, just don't buy it. Yeah I'm going to buy every edition of Skryim when it launches, but I'll not pay for the DLC so I'm a better person than you!"

Fucking casuals.

>>16873574

>>16873579

>>16873620

Yeah F2P games try to be "Addictive" but every game that doesn't simply end or have a final level, has been the same way since Atari arcade games added saved highscores to encourage people to keep playing and keep pumping quarters, and it extremely easy to see how it's trying to manipulate someone who is weak willed, I don't actively hunt down F2P games where I can become better then whales so I can beat them without paying as my goal, getting to the point of beating them is was just a natural effect of being competent. My whole thing of admittedly overzelous here is because it's hard not to be when you know your just better then others regardless of the kind of game it is, humans are naturally competitive, be it a highscore arcade leaderboards, coming in first in a racing or deathmatch game, or who contributed most to a co-op effort.

The line of a game being manipulative/addictive/fun is a blury one, when it comes to how your brain interprets things, it's disturbing how efficient the systems are, that there barley need to be a game in some of them.

>>16874591

werent the dev/writers lefty swedes?

>>16874616

I've actually been thinking about playing on a private server myself. Apparently the best server to play on is Ephinea.

Speaking of shit MMOs, has Sega said anything more on PSO2 coming to the west?

It was supposed to happen in 2016 and I gave up on it after a while.

>>16871948

I've typed this out way too many times to do it again at this hour, but the gist is this: PSO2 is not a good game. It is not a fast-paced action game like DMC because the enemies move like they have diabetes. It is not a thoughtful action game like Monhun because you can cancel almost anything with a dodge or guard at almost any time. Since your defensive options all use either iframes or guard frames in functionally the same way, you respond to every attack with the same defensive option. The end result is a game that is painfully easy most of the time, and even when it is not, it boils down to a dodge-attack-repeat loop.

>>16874648

There's already been a closed beta for Xbox One and there's gonna be an open beta for it next week, but still only Xbox One. Sometime after the full release PC and PS4 will get it in English but I'm pretty sure you can download English patches for it on PC already.

>>16875227

Don't you like grinding endlessly though? You occasionally run into someone else who's interfering with your XP and then start PVP to compete for the grinding spot, it's perfect emergent MMO gameplay!

>>16871882

MMO's have always been shit.

>>16875275

What are you talking about, everything is either instanced or publicly tagged with instanced loot/xp. There is no competition in MMOs these days outside of commerce, and even then you get games like Black Desert with communist style price controls.

None of them really facilitate you making your own fun in the game. There's no actual RP in MMORPGs. Side activities are just made to be as boring and braindead as possible if it isn't just literally watching a loading bar fill up.

So long as people keep making streamlined themeparks instead of actual worlds for people to fuck around in this won't change and MMOs will remain utter shit.

>>16872303

>>16872314

What happened to Camelot Unchained? I dont like MMORPGs, and I tried private server of Dark Age of Camelot, and it was so hard and grindy for me, to be honest; But I knew about Camelot Unchained, and I was even interesed, even if only to see it release and people playing it.

And I love Celtic stuff, so im Hibernia anon, and I would choose Tuatha if I played it. Who Hibernia/Tuatha here?

>>16875571

Just play a MUD if you want to roleplay like a weirdo.

>>16875743

>Any game where numbers go up is an RPG

Okey, AAA marketing executive.

>>16875608

>What happened to Camelot Unchained?

7 years in development and all they have to show for it is are buggy ugly demos where people shoot magic balls at things, and from what I gather they're now using the engine on other projects or working on some mod project or something.

>>16875759

cringe response

>>16875608

If invid still actually works, here's a vid explaining the shit, but essentially they are trying to develop two games at once with the people they have right now.

>>16875887

It's true though, Borderland is always listed in RPG sections.

>>16875887

non-response.

>>16876472

will never happen because once you give a shotgun a more realistic range it would become the best weapon in nearly every game. Your players would use nothing but it and maybe a sniper rifle for the really long range stuff.

>>16876589

This is because the intrinsic negatives of using a shotgun over an assault rifle or carbine are mostly in the handling of the weapon and ammo. Which is something almost never simulated or implimented in non-VR video games.

There is no downside to using a weapon which has individually loading cartridges when reloading and chambering rounds consists of pressing a single button. You don't have to fumble in your pockets for an extra shell. All you have to do in order to re-shoulder the weapon ready to fire is press the fire button and it's accomplished instantly and perfectly.

>>16876658

I've often wondered why devs don't balance shotguns by giving them less max ammo capacity and a longer reload time (feeding in each shell as opposed to changing a magazine) and breaks between firing (to either pump or simply deal with recoil) in order to balance the weapon, instead of just turning it into a nerf gun at more than ten feet.

>>16880917

You know I'm tempted to try this because I think you're the same Shin Megami Imagine poster in other MMO threads.

>>16881014

I never noticed before that Gomory has an arrow pointing to where the bactrian's dick should be but isn't.

The only good MMOs I've ever played are FFXI, PSO, Ragnarok Online when it first came out before the Comodo patch, World of Warcraft during original Vanilla and Burning crusade (nothing after), Runescape early on before all the duping shit, and Everquest servers pre-sleeper awakening.

>>16881798

Wat, did it flop that hard?

>>16881805

I honestly don't have a god damn clue. The joke that was offered is corona took out the workers; what i don't get is why they're shutting it down and not just going into a circling pattern.

>>16876669

Some games do try this. But the problem is that you are still just pressing a button to reload. One button opens the breech, fishes in your pocket for two shells, ejects the two shells in the shotty, inserts the two shells in your hand, closes the breech, and cocks the hammer.

It's the same with belt-fed guns which are harder to reload than normal magazines also. It's just the nature of the beast when you abstract these actions to a flat screen and a single button press unfortunatly.

>>16882413

Is it that bad? I DL'd it yesterday out of boredom and the story seems interesting enough to keep playing, but i haven't played it much yet.

>>16882583

it's fine. what >>16882413 forgets is that a) the original was already in maintenance mode left out to die and b) funcom didn't pull a reforged, the original version still up. by his own admission the game was already dead. funcom also allowed you to carry over a lot of cosmetic stuff over from the original and even honored lifetimers, so at worst people had to level a new character.

there's hardly any jewish shit unless you're really into dress-up, best part is the story and that's free. unless they changed it (haven't played for a while) you still could grind most shit even on f2p, and in the absolute worst case you can exchange currency for store dosh, in the end it mostly comes down to what's faster/more convenient - for example instead of buying that overpriced mark 3 weapon off the market, buy/grind a mark 2 and then the upgrade which is 1k bars or something. and that's only if you really care about mark 3 to begin with.

heck last time I checked even the lootbox cosmetics were tradeable on the market for ingame currency, so there never was a real reason to buy boxes. it's nowhere near your average korea mmo grinder.

if you just start out the most annoying part will be storage, but if you plan how to advance your shit early it's really not that big of an issue, less now that they trimmed down gear (at relaunch you had 3 versions of each trinket for different roles, now it's one and you can set it however you want). grab a cheap generic mark 3 off the market, feed it the the drops you find/sell or market the rest, grab another one later on with the extra proc for your role (they're more expensive and you won't have the dosh for it in the beginning), then either combine them or not. this way you'll hardly have to carry stuff around.

no gambling shit involved, just a grind, and none of that is really required to see most of the story.

>>16882387

Meh devs aren't creative or risk-taking enough. Could have to click on two randomly placed circles on the screen to grab each shell and if you miss you have to click somewhere else. You can still move wasd then, and you can just hold a button to detach the mouse and click on the circles, and all of this would actually add to the game both simulation, immersion, meaningful mechanics and balance. You can hold = let's say (with mmo mouse), click on one, let go because you need to turn, hold it again, click on another; could be a drag and drop if you want it to be real annoying. There could be a bar on the side with shotgun shells representing an ammo belt of shells you can pull from that you have to click or drag and drop from to a shotgun icon.

>>16882399

3D is unsustainable for the niche market they normally pursue. Unless they used some unusually clever programming tricks that never made it to japan (like most of the rest of unusually clever programming tricks) there is no way in hell they aren't paying ten or a hundred times more to host Maplestory 2 on slow days than they did to host Maplestory in its absolute heyday.

They tried to compensate adding more ways for whales to pay in, like premium memberships. Clearly, that didn't help.

>>16882934

3d on the client hardly makes any difference for hosting.

>>16883051

The most optimized 3D game imaginable still has a heavier load in almost every way than any reasonably well made 2D game. A majority of that excess load cannot be reasonably outsourced to clients without major ramifications in both playability and security.

At best you can make the extra burden "minimal" for the server (by taking reasonable steps to limit transactions) but I very much doubt Wizet could deliver that degree of competency so far out of their comfort zone.

>>16883105

you are aware 3d isn't running on the server, right? a MMO nothing more than a glorified database frontend, this isn't an fps where a physics calculation has to run to prevent cheating, that's not how most MMOs work.

>>16883734

Even supposing that the server runs absolutely none of the collision detection or positioning and therefore opens up the client to using basic cheating software to teleport instantly across maps and kill entire maps with basic abilities by spooky action at a distance, your database is still going to increase in complexity dramatically when accounting for a third dimension.

I highly recommend looking into the differences between modern and recent MMOs in back-end to solve some of these problems, there are a number of papers on this and it's not abstract theory. You may need to brush up on how these "glorified databases" work in the first place, since you have asserted twice now that 3D isn't 'running on the server'. For that, S Bogojevic's "The Architecture of Massive Multiplayer Online Games" is a good introduction. Please keep in mind that it is a very basic look and decades old. It adequately conveys how many back-ends of the era were designed, however. Many still are, such as WoW, but those sorts of companies have infinite money.

It is also the case that Wizet is unlikely to have the know-how to actually implement a lot of recent tricks to minimize load without opening up to exploitation. They are not and have never been specialized in 3D MMO design.

Letting this thread die if nobody else is interested, feel free to bump anyhow.

>>16885305

Got any interesting articles or sources on this. Networking may as well be black magic to me and apparently most of the online gayming community and devs so anything to help me learn about it would be pretty neat.

>>16892554

No, that guy doesn't know what hes talking about. Server operations are all just maths and data, no graphics. Also 2D still has collision detection via hitboxes and hurtboxes, 3D can also implement collision via this method instead of physics if so desired.

>>16885305

>therefore opens up the client to using basic cheating software to teleport instantly across maps

yes, you absolutely have to to run an expensive physics simulation server side, especially since the server apparently doesn't even know the coordinates of the entities involved or can even do simple tracking of those basic stats while hosting the game.

and lets ignore for a minute that not every mmo even has collision in the first place for gameplay reasons alone, so having this server side would be even more pointless.

> your database is still going to increase in complexity dramatically when accounting for a third dimension.

yes, 3 vectors compared to 2 are a massive increase in size.

>It is also the case that Wizet is unlikely to have the know-how to actually implement a lot of recent tricks to minimize load without opening up to exploitation. They are not and have never been specialized in 3D MMO design.

no one ever designs anything from the ground up these days, not even their online service. and "never trust the client" is a concept that doesn't change over the years.

> You may need to brush up on how these "glorified databases" work in the first place, since you have asserted twice now that 3D isn't 'running on the server'.

go ahead then and describe how "3d" is running on the server since you claimed it does, or whatever your definition of "3d" actually is and how a "3d" database differs from a "2d" database.

>>16892554

ask /tech/ /g/, the basics are the same and depending how deep you wanna go into OSI there isn't any difference. devs usually don't got into details of their running systems for security reasons, but there is plenty of theoretic stuff available. or might as well check a public source like quake directly

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Latency_Compensating_Methods_in_Client/Server_In-game_Protocol_Design_and_Optimization

http://fabiensanglard.net/quake3/network.php

>>16881798

>Maple Story's iconic feature is being a 2D side scrolling MMO.

>Maple Story 2 is not a 2D side scrolling MMO.

What was the point.

>>16892612

Thanks for the links. If only I could give a shit about uni stuff instead. from the little I've started reading it looks like a game mainly use snapshots of positions of everything (with prior ones acting as fallbacks) for the purposes of rendering for players and if they have too choppy a connection then try to compensate that with predicting what would have happened between those lost snapshots. Am I kind of getting it? trying to not be completely retarded here.

>>16892620

I'd argue it was to create something different enough to make people want to drop the original game or at least make an attempt at migrating while retaining a lot of the story/lore/aesthetics to ease on asset creation. Just my own thoughts on it.

>>16892623

rubberbanding happens coz your client thinks you are somewhere, and then the server goes no you are not and places you back where you should be (server side). If you tried to hack with teleports, you will either get disconnected or rubberband back to where you should be. If you tried to hack numbers at best your client side numbers will just be wrong and at worst you'll get disconnected and/or banned by the server automatically.

If you're interested in looking at the compensation methods the terms you wanna look out for are "lock step" and "predictive".

The only people stupid enough to code their mmo game otherwise was Blizzard. In early versions of WoW you could tell the WoW servers how many talent points you had so you could have like 255 all talent points. Teleport hacks also used to be common coz Blizzard decided trusting the client was ok.

the sad truth is that actually all MMOs are shit but runescape in 2007 was the least shit

>>16892620

To get a fresh new market for an MMO series and also lots of money, obviously. For what it's worth MS2 is cute and anime, which certainly has it's charms; just a shame it's grindy as fuck after you get past the mediocre plot. I suppose custom clothes and shit is nice too but they needed more free weekends to take advantage of it.

>>16892623

you probably need some form of interpolation anyway, even for lan, since there will always be delays and you have to compensate for that to make it smooth

it also depends how it "forgiving" it is, quake 1 was notorious high ping players having an advantage due to it.

as >>16892644 said that only goes so far before server thinks you're cheating or simply kicks you because it's not viable to have you in the game. but there were some implementations that are borderline magic back in the old modem days to make it work. I remember one article going into it a while back, but can't remember if it was for warcraft or c&c

if you need something more recent and accessible in case you want to use it for uni stuff, unity has some talks to sell their new multiplayer stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6JTaFE7SYI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_-FoJuaYOI

>>16892644

to be fair they were never as bad as some others and at least reacted fast. nothing beats cryptic with neverwinter, lifting the auction house code wholesale from star trek online with the dupe exploit that was already fixed months earlier there. this and other outright stupid stuff lead to them having to roll back the game a whole week.

>>16892716

the problem is mainly that "mmo" can mean literally everything these days and everyone expects something different from it. mmorpgs itself were always a niche until wow made it accessible to normalfags, but those never really moved on to "real" mmorpgs while everybody decided to clone wow to get some of the pie, and the grinding aspect has been implemented in almost every game now because turns out having a stupid carrot to chase keeps people playing. we're really not better rats in that regard.

there's still some good shit out there, depending what you're looking for but of course it won't be perfect so it's up to you to decide if the parts that are bad are bad enough to drag the whole game down.

>>16894024

I remember I tried it and liked it, but the place was a ghost town because I'm EU and everyone else US. I've played MUD's at length and what I dislike about them is the combat, which is basically the same no matter the setting and server you're playing on.

>thousands of bullshit items you have to buy as you progress with levels at least that's what it is at aardwolf which is the most popular one out there

>every second you and the enemy attack and the only input you have is copy-pasting the commands that are responsible for additional attacks like kick

>no matter what enemy you face the tactic is the same - use spells if you have them and spam commands

>you're gated in level-restricted areas and if you leave you get stomped into the ground

>you've reached the maximum level? Great, now go back to 1 and do it all over again!

>if you're not in an organized group or don't have friends the game is a snoozefest because even in RP servers nobody roleplays at all, the writing is mostly filler and nothing remotely interesting or captivating from a player's perspective

>no GM's, it's all static and grindy as a living hell

I've figured that either I'm spoiled by other, more modern games or it's just not for me.

>>16894311

Get into a MUCK or a MOO, if any are still around, and do some content generation. Then again the last MUD I played with any regularity was Gemstone III which probably says a lot for my understanding of the genre.