No.414278
Hey /tg/. I'm GMing my first campaign, a homebrew alternate history weird western using modified Shadowrun rules. So far, everybody in the group I game with has loved it, to the point that the GM of the game we've been playing is considering ending his game, so we can play the game I'm running more than once every two weeks.
However, the GM also tends to be 'that guy' when he isn't running a game. When i first told him I was going to be running some sort of game, he told me he would make a high charisma based character and "fuck your setting into the dirt".
And so, when I started with a two player one-off game, my first time running a game ever, he made a character with charisma skills so high, he was able to hit his charisma limit, and tried insisting that meant his character got what he wanted.
At first I tolerated it, since it was mildly amusing - He conviced the other player that the job of robbing a train wasn't good enough, and ended up managing to blow up the railroad just before the train went over a gorge. While that did fuck up the setting, it also allowed me to diverge from real history in a way I wanted to. However, he didn't stop there, and he began to take over the town I had set the game in (Laramie), insisting that since he had rolled his limit, and his limit was higher than the average dicepool of the people in Laramie, that he would be able to convince them to sign over their buisnesses to him by using fancy words and talking around them in circles.
By the time I managed to put a stop to it, he had taken over 80% of the town, missing only the blacksmith (who he tried to seduce the wife of infront of him, and was chased off with a shotgun), and the bank (who was owned by a jewish guy, and refused to shake the native american snake oil salesman's hand, and thus avoided being pricked with a needle filled with some sort of drug.).
He said he's going to do it again when he joins the full game itself. How do I damage control a Charisma based 'that guy'?
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No.414279
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No.414280
>>414278
>"fuck your setting into the dirt."
You did this to yourself.
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No.414281
>>414280
First time ever running a game, man.
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No.414282
>>414278
Basically what >>414280 said, if a player is telling you that they're gonna fuck your setting and you still give them the ok without going over why they're doing it, then you pretty much earned everything that happened to you m8.
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No.414284
>>414278
Tell him outright to cut that shit out. If he won't, and I'm assuming you've tried this, your best course of action is to play the townspeople and similar in such a way that they aren't going to be easily fooled. If he tries getting them to sign something over, make them refuse to sign. If he tries to drug them, make them scream for help when they're first pricked. Basically, fuck over his character for trying to fuck up your setting. I know this will probably lead to more That Guy behavior but if he won't respond to your direct request to not ruin your setting, play his game.
>>414279
This is a fine thread. OP is asking a question with some nuance.
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No.414285
>>414281
Well what did you expect when he said "I'll ruin this for you"? You don't need to be an expert driver to know that the guy who says he'll set the car on fire is probably bad news.
Also, the character isn't the problem. Even if you find ways to counter his high charisma he'll just look for new ways to fuck you over, as that is his declared goal. Your only option is to talk it out with him.
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No.414287
>>414284
Terrible advice, just be upfront instead of playing your idiot player's game and tell him up front that you were letting him do things that he should not actually be able to do and that you want him to take your work more seriously. Even if he beats averages you should still roll because there is the chance of an above average result, plus social rolls should be influenced by someone's relationship to the speaker - if everyone knows this guy is out swindling they should be much, much, harder to convince to do fucking anything, You don't need to cheat or play stupid games to win stupid prizes.
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No.414291
>>414284
We do have a GM thread that could use a bump.
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No.414296
>>414278
You could always talk to him. You know the first rule of solving a problem is talk to your players.
Or just tpk. With a horde of charisma immune characters ie skellytons ghouls, robots or people who dont speak the same language.
Or give him aids.
>high Charisma seduction
>girl pretends to be virgin
>bareback
>okay role constitution
>uwatface.jpg
>you now have incurable std and have -10 charisma for remainder of campaign
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No.414297
>>414278
>/tg/, please help! My "friend" is being a stupid faggot!
Isn't it obvious anon? Tell him to quit that shit or kick his ass. Awful thread.
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No.414298
>>414287
>tell him to cut that shit out
>if he won't,
Pay attention and read the whole post next time, anon.
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No.414308
You kinda brought this on yourself by allowing your "freind" to be an asshole. If a player outright says he's planning to "fuck your setting into the dirt", the only logical response is to tell them to GTFO until they stop being a colossal faggot.
To paraphrase the Film "WarGames" - "The only winning move is not to (let them) play"
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No.414312
>High Charisma means people will do things in the opposite of their interest
This is a mistake I see made a lot, so much so that I think it does deserve its own thread. High charisma should be the ability to win peoples trust, get them to talk about things they shouldn't, or make great deals; it is not mind control. Talk to him, let him know you won't let him get away with this shit again. Then, if you let him take over the town for free through deceit there are probably enough people he's wronged to form an angry mob to either drive him out of town or force him to sign the things back over. If he tries to get the law involved, who would they believe: the honest townspeople or the guy who robbed a train? If you feel extra spiteful and he's the type to romance every harlot give him syphilis per >>414296
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No.414322
>>414312
It's another one of those things that people meme about but never actually read the rules for. There's always a limit on what a person can negotiate or persuade their way into and even systems like D&D will make it clear that even absurdly high skills and stats don't account for all the maluses that can weigh against the character trying to Charisma their way through everything.
<NPC doesn't know the character
<NPC doesn't trust them
<The request is unreasonable or harmful to the NPC
<The request is illegal
<There is nothing to be gained by the NPC
<The requests involve intimate matters and things of personal importance to the NPC
<The player literally has no actual idea or plan that makes any fucking sense besides "I want to roll the dice and say I get my way"
<The action serves no purpose to the overall game, even in the context of the character's motivations, and is only occurring because the player wants to shit all over the GM and cause trouble in the game because they think being a obnoxious cunt is more fun that playing in a game that someone else is volunteering their time to run for them.
In short, put your fucking foot down and tell him to knock that shit off or he's not welcome at the table. He's being a faggoty asshat who is trying to antagonize you for no reason. Clearly, you set out with a story in mind and a goal for the game, and he's saying he doesn't care about that because he sees you as a tool for his own amusement.
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No.414323
>charisma
>means he gets it his way
Since fucking when?
Ask for actual arguments IC, for compelling reasons, for real bribes.
If a player with 30 Charisma and 80 Diplomacy rolls up his shit against an orc I am still going to ask for a compelling argument, the roll being successful does not change that I want something more than "surrender to me lol".
If he wants to do epic things he should give epic reasoning and epic speeches.
Furthermore, if the player gets things his way too often he may end up people being wary of him, especially if he is scamming people over.
EVEN MORE FURTHERMORE
If the guy exists as a charisma god what's stopping other NPCs to have the same level of charisma and diplomacy against him?
You can also include things such as racism: he is a native american in a western setting innit?
Then have cowboys shun him regardless of the arguments he make, no matter your charisma you can't convince anyone from /pol/ that jews are good, for example.
Overall, you can let the guy do his things but you need to remember that it is not the dice that control the game: you control the game.
If you feel a simple roll cannot or should not be able to pull the wool over someone's eyes then it shouldn't, end of story.
Never say no but never submit to your players.
Rule 0 baby, learn it and embrace it.
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No.414329
Thanks for the advice. I should have clarified that he told me he was going to fuck up my setting in the five minutes before we started playing the game, so I had no idea what to do.
I ran a couple one-off games of shadowrun before, but I've never run a continious campaign, and he always played street samurai, never faces.
I'll be meeting with him tomorrow to explain to him that he's nott he main character in the game, and if he tries ruining the game for everyone else he can go play with some other people.
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No.414330
>>414329
At the very least, tell him that you've looked over the rules and gave it some thought and decided that if he's going to run a face character, he won't be able to use high charisma to do whatever the fuck he wants because it doesn't work that way.
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No.414331
>>414330
Yeah, that was my plan. I started using Rule 0 and the Golden Rule this sunday, and it worked out really well. Since his new character is a shaman, I made a couple people who they will encounter that will counterspell and banish, as well as putting a general level 4 backround count. (From wards that are highly anti-magic, essentially.)
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No.414332
>>414329
One thing you should remember however is this: let the guy be a bit broken.
A strong character is nice to play when his strong points feel strong points.
A warrior is never going to have fun if you scale enemy AC by +1 everytime his attack bonus raises by +1 (to give an example in DnD terms).
A mage is never going to have fun if likewise you skill enemy resistances to magic as he levels up.
A charisma god is allowed to be extremely charismatic, meaning that he can convince people to side with him, he can make ideas that have a minimum of logic be liked by the masses and yadda yadda.
If he wants to be a snake oil salesman make him be a snake oil salesman, there is nothing wrong with that, however no amount of bluffing can save you when the cards are on the table.
Charisma and generally social abilities to me always felt more an aid to trying to RP, rather than a tool to replace RP, if he actually make somewhat valid points ("Hey orcs surrender to us, if you do I will hire your entire tribe to work and guard these mines I own and you won't need to live like animals anymore"; "You should just give me your land: the earth is not fertile and it's you've been at a loss for a couple of years already, give me the deed so you won't have to hemorrhage money over this patch of dirt anymore") then his roll can be justified to win people over his side.
Otherwise?
It's either your way or the highway.
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No.414350
>>414278
>I'm GMing a homebrew alternate history weird western using modified Shadowrun rules
I don't know which edition you've based it on, but the Anniversary Edition had a ton of social modifiers.
>>414322
>There's always a limit on what a person can negotiate or persuade their way into
Exactly. I call it the 'Royal Guard test'. A player, no matter how charismatic, isn't going to convince the royal guards that he is the king with nothing but his words.
>>414323
>Furthermore, if the player gets things his way too often he may end up people being wary of him, especially if he is scamming people over
That would be my suggestion. Has he made any promises so far? How's the town feel about an outsider taking over the town? Is he actually running the town? At what point will they oust him?
If he is trying to portray a snake oil salesman then his jig might be compromised at some point.
I'll end it with this: I once had a very charismatic player arrested for being caught by DNA evidence that pointed to him being the murderer of an officer. He hadn't committed the murder, but the law was eager to see him fall. During his interrogation he rolled extremely well, but threw a fit when the officers didn't just let him walk out. Sure he was sour for the remainder of the session, but the following jailbreak session made up for it. In short, don't let charisma fall into the diplomancy trope.
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No.415176
Try treating social disagreements almost like combat. Some systems provide numeric values to an NPCs disposition, ranging from friendly to hostile. If yours doesn't, assign some numbers. A "social attack" is similar to a physical one, in that you are trying to overcome a challenge to achieve a goal. In combat, you're trying to beat your opponent's defenses to hurt or kill them. In social situations, you're trying to overcome your opponent's distrust to get them to trust you or make them friendlier, and charisma rolls will shift this disposition up or down rather than magically convincing people. Think of the NPC's personality as social armor; either resistant to change or susceptible to it. Even your best friend still isn't likely to sign over the deed to his house just because you asked nicely though.
Swindling is something different, but make him roleplay or at least explain how he's tricking people to act against their own interests. It's not impossible, people fall for phone and email scams all the time, like those old "Nigerian prince" emails asking people for access to their bank accounts so some foreigner can "move his funds" discretely and promising you a small cut if you help. Mind people are going to be pretty upset once they figure out they've been scammed, and it's easier to get revenge on the snake oil salesman shacked up in town than someone sending mail from a foreign country
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No.415180
I had a player try to use the charisma is mind control meme, and I explained using a door to door salesman.
These are extremely charismatic people, and with a great opening pitch you might let him in your front door to start with, but from there he has to keep pushing before he can close the sale. No one is going to buy whatever he's selling outright just because he seems like a swell guy, in fact most people will just politely decline. He's really looking for people that are too trusting or have a hard time saying no.
Charisma should be a game of "I convinced you to trust me, so it's easier to get what I want" rather than "I convinced you to give me what I want"
Polite sage for double post
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No.415188
>So far, everybody in the group I game with has loved it, to the point that the GM of the game we've been playing is considering ending his game, so we can play the game I'm running more than once every two weeks.
>everybody in the group ... loved it, to the point that the GM of the game we've been playing is considering ending his game
This is the source of your strife, OP. The player in question is irked that the group has started favoring your game, or at least he's irked that he thinks they feel that way. He wants to fuck your game without affording you an opportunity to do it back to him, out of spite.
Don't treat the symptoms. Treat the disease.
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No.415212
>>414296
>Or give him aids.
This seems the appropriate solution.
Wait doesn't Shadowrun has a ghoul/undead/vampire virus going around.
And they get killed on sight?
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No.416151
>>414278
Well he pretty much declared total war on you, so why don't you do the same, anon?
You are the GM, you should be able to come up with something
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No.426074
My solution would be to have the local bandito leader become so impressed with Mr. Charisma that he is going to make him wear a dress and force the town priest to marry them at gunpoint.
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No.426152
>>414278
> and tried insisting that meant his character got what he wanted.
1. Don't allow loonie nonsense.
2. Don't allow munchkin nonsense.
3. Don't GM if it's not obvious to you that "I want a Charisma check to try and charm tracks off a MBT" falls under both (1) and (2).
> he told me he would make a high charisma based character and "fuck your setting into the dirt".
Uh… What did you expect to happen?
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No.426250
>>414322
If you still wanna be stubborn beyond all that, add flaws to npcs to further muddy their efforts. Maybe they're assholes who won't take a deal unless it's EXTREMELY beneficial to them. Sure he can get it but it'll be at a loss. Maybe they're superstitious and will only trade for obscure shit that's annoying to get. Maybe they literally hate stranger and won't talk to him so his charisma is worthless.
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