/tg/ - Traditional Games

>>213400

You talking about Torment or Planescape in general?

Because yes, there are inns and taverns in Sigil. You gain access to one once you hit the Clerk's ward.

>>213404

Planescape in general.

It feels like coming up with a campaign that only has one city is a bit difficult.

im in the process of downloading the books from monkey mansion as I type

>>213405

Okay, let me try.

Planescape is set on the Outer Planes - so Hell, Heaven, Nirvana and Valhalla are all places you and your party can visit. Of course, since we're talking about different planes of existence here, traveling between them can be a bitch. This is where Sigil comes in: the city in the center of the multiverse, the place where you can find a portal to anywhere and anytime. This makes Sigil a hotbed of politics, trade, and adventuring. You need a rare spell that can only be obtained by trading with devils? You can find it here. You need a sword blessed in the waters of the River Oceanos? You can find it here. Need to hire viking mercenaries to fight off giants? Yep, right there.

Because you can go anywhere in the known multiverse from it, and because you can find anything in it, everyone wants to take Sigil over. From demons to angels, everyone wants to rule over the City of Doors. However, the only thing preventing them from actually doing that is the Lady of Pain - a mysterious thing that floats around the city, rearranges it at will, and kills Gods without breaking a sweat. Because the LoP is constantly floating around, the demons, angels and other critters have to work in the shadows and manipulate politics and mortals into doing their bidding and gain more power.

So how does anyone in the multiverse gain more power? By making other people believe what they believe. The Outer Planes are defined by belief - so if enough people believe something, their belief will make that thing real. If enough people believe that Heaven is stronger than Hell, it will become stronger. If enough people believe that the sky is red, it will eventually turn red. And this is where the Factions came in.

The Factions are part political organizations, part philosopher clubs. Each has an unique system of beliefs that they adhere to - one group believes that everyone has the potential to become a God, others believe that the multiverse is doomed and that there really is no point in being a jerkass if everyone's fucked already, still others believe that the multiverse should be ruled by a Lawful and Firm hand and would make Judge Dredd look like a pansy by comparison. Of course, since in Planescape belief equals power, all these factions try to get more members, or convert more people from other factions to their system of belief, or just fight it out in the streets.

Your players are expected to be members of some Faction. And they don't have to belong to the same faction - so this means that your players will have to think about why their Faction would send them on this mission (or let them join), or how they'll interact with members of the other Faction, or will they work together or eventually try to backstab each other over who gets the prize in the end. Of course, it can also happen that they're best of friends who simply don't agree on how the multiverse works, but whatever. So there's plenty of potential for some good roleplay there.

And that's not even getting into the Blood War and the other Planar clusterfucks going on. Each of the 17 Outer Planes is ripe with conflict and political shenanigans, which your players can get involved in. Smuggling weapons for demons? Spying on some devils on behalf of other devils? Blackmailing angels? Slaying eldritch dragons that nest in the root of Yggdrasil? There's ton of stuff going on out there, and your players can get involved with all of it.

>>213409

If this was a game you'd be the winner

>>213405

There are plenty of cities. There are entire economies and ecologies going on across the planes, and tons of locations, many of which aren't all that hostile. There are cities, nations, kingdoms, etc just about everywhere.

So for example, the Plane of Fire … sure it's a infinite plane made out of fire, but it's also the home of all of the fire elemental beings that come from there, and they're not just waiting around to be summoned or put in encounters. They have their own societies and civilizations. The Efreeti Empire has a capital city (the City of Brass), that can be run with most of the same potential concerns that you would address in a normal city in a normal setting, complete with politics, agriculture, economics, trade, foreign policy, etc … It just happens to be ruled by Efreeti and floating on a sea of magma.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Brass_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29

There are cities in heaven and hell (or heavens and hells) your PCs can visit, and everywhere in between. In the Outlands there are the gate towns. These are very much like normal "D&D" settlements, but also each is slightly toned after the planes that they link to, and make a pretty good compromise to get a feel for those planes without being overwhelmingly different.

Even "empty" places like the Astral and the Ethereal have native societies and locations. Well, sort of.

In addition, all over you will find settlements and groups that still have the flavor of whatever prime material setting they migrated from. So over here you might have an enclave of Qualinesti from Dragonlance or a longhouse of Northmen from Faerun or a temple of Pholtus straight out of the Theocracy of the Pale. There's really no limit, and the setting is built to accommodate all of these things, and put them together in ways that actually make sense.

Sigil is huge, and awesome, and detailed, and full of fun. Sigil can be the basis for an entire campaign, but it is far from the only city or civilization.

Op, >>213409 is a champ.

But seriously, if you are downloading the books, read the modron march after you are done with the main book.

It's an adventure that spawns decades, goes all over the multiverse and has an epic ending. It can give your party plenty of time to fuck around in sigil, get industrious, make a name for themselves during the interval where they need to intervene with the events of the march.

>>213400

>An example: in any other RPG you can occasionally let the party rest and regroup at an inn or a tavern.

>Are there even inns and taverns in Planescape? Or is it too busy looking like one of Lewis Carrol's nightmares?

The Outer Planes Tourism guide, or "So you want to set up kip and get some shuteye":

- Arcadia likely has very strict guidelines for inns, given that the local alignment is Lawful Anal. Day and night follow each other without dawn and dusk: one moment it's bright as noon, the next it's the middle of the night. If you're not Lawful, expect to be stopped frequently by local Paladins to question your alignment and business. Stay on the road as well: if you're not on them you'll immediately be suspected of being a brigand of sorts because why else leave the road?

- Mount Celestia has no day/night cycle. The first layer, Lunia, has a pleasant twilight going on that's good to sleep in, and there are places one can go to if you're less than Lawful Good without being harassed by the locals. Other layers have some nice cities where a basher can get healed and rearmed, and the place is generally safe to set up a tent in. Be wary of doing this on the fourth layer however: it is filled with nudists and you don't want to see shriveled old man dick before breakfast.

- Bytopia is generally safe, though there's a chance that you have to work for your meal and bed instead of pay for it. It's how they roll there. Camping on the first layer is safe, but on the second layer less so, and you might not find shelter amongst the peoples of Shurrock.

- Elysium is generally safe, but don't stay there too long: it's so happy and joyful and good it'll brainwash you. You'll be more likely to be helped out by a friendly local than having to pay for your kip though. The first two and four layers are good, but the third layer is a massive swamp filled with… things. Don't camp here.

- The Beastlands have little in flavor of inns and stuff. Camping is dangerous: the day does not pass so you're always in noon, dusk/dawn or midnight. Be wary of the locals who'd make a meal out of you like a pack of lions, a bear with levels in Cleric or a max hit die celestial firebreathing T.rex.

- Arborea has the elves who are pretty good sports about having people over. Be wary though that they like to party hard, so don't expect a lot of sleep. There's a place there called the The Gilded Hall, which is filled with revelries, sensations, festivities and other fun things to do. So if you wanna do hookers and blow for the rest of your life, this is the place. It's also a prison for Sensates, where the ones who only have pleasant experiences instead of all experiences the Multiverse has to offer. The second plane is entirely water and the third entirely sand, so they aren't a lot of fun.

- Ysgard ain't half bad if you're into the viking life. They like fighting during the day and partying during the night. If they die they rise the next morning. Note that only they do that: if you get put into the dead-book while here you'll stay there, berk. The locals have trouble figuring this out, so be wary and don't start any fights you can't win. Which is most of them here to be honest.

- Limbo is not a pleasant place. If you want to set up your tent you'll have to assemble some of the raw matter floating about and keep it focussed while you sleep. You could try ask the local Githzerai for a place to sleep, but they aren't awfully keen on visitors. And don't ask the Slaad for help: they'll fuck you up.

>>213575

- Pandemonium carries a big disclaimer: bring earplugs or the winds drive you mad. And mind the gravity: it's aiming at whatever's currently "down" for you. When there the Madhouse isn't that bad for a Chaotic plane with Evil tendencies, but take precautions so you don't wake up with a Balor dancing through your room.

- The Abyss is simple: all the layers carry some degree of NOPE. The plane is hostile, the locals even more so and the few relatively safe places (Graz'zt's city, Malcanthet's realm, Demogorgon's city) will still get you very dead very quick if you're not extremely well prepared. Just stay away from this place.

- Carceri is a magic place: You can check in any time you want, but you'll never leave. Ever read the Inferno part of the Divine Comedy? Well, that's what Carceri is like. Acid snow, corrosive water, sand that can flay a berk's flesh right off of his bones: not a nice play to spend the night.

- The Gray Waste is dull, dull, dull. So dull that if you stay there you'll lose all your color and the ability to give a shit, making you stay there forever. Also the primary battleground of the devils and demons. The only safe places are Khin-Oin (if you're a Yugoloth, but even then), various divine realms (if you're a petitioner) and the town called Death of Innocense (a good place to stay if you don't mind the walls made of people constantly weeping blood).

- Gehenna is mainly volcanoes. Some of them are active, others covered in acidic snow. Don't sleep here. The main cities are either for fiends or in the hands of malevolent powers. There's Nimicri though: a small floating moon that's clean, safe and a nice place to do business. Almost everyone here accidentally cuts themselves and drips blood on the ground, creating a perfect copy of them that stays on Nimicri. Oh, and sometimes the moon eats people. Fun times.

- Baator is the home of the devils. Don't trust devils. Don't sleep here, not even when dealing with the most powerful Archdevils. Sure, their deals for safety might look waterproof, but it takes only a couple of misinterpreted words and you're turned into a Lemur. And I'm not talking about the monkey.

- Acheron is filled with war and noise. If the cube you're on looks safe, don't stay there too long: either an army will show up and you'll get killed/enslaved, or the floating cubes smash into one another and you get flattened. The lower you go the finer the cubes become, until you're on the last layer and you get submitted to vorpal bukkake.

- Mechanus is filled with gears housing every conceivable environment, in some strange pattern that's perfectly logical somehow. Camping here is relatively safe, but be wary of patrols of the locals who are more than willing to kill you if you break a law you didn't know was there.

So in short, in many cases you'd be better served to go back to Sigil and set up kip there if you want to sleep. Most of the planes aren't safe.

>>213484

I think OP was having more trouble coming up with ideas of what to do in a game set inside Sigil.

>>213409

Are there any cities and inns in the far realms?

>>213604

Unless you want to go visit places like R'lyeh there are not cities in the Far Realm. There is nothing there but endless horrors.

The Far Realm itself does not even exist in Planescape.

>>213579

From what I see, it's up to its ears in politics, backstabbing, and villainy.

Shouldn't be that hard to pick one and roll with it.

>>213405

>Planescape in general.

Since ALL the worlds of Prime are supposedly linked to Sigil, the amount of potentially accessible inns and taverns is near-infinite. ;)

Seriously, though - if they know a portal to some place with decent food, it's probably better for peaceful eating and sleeping than Sigil. Unless your tiefling insists on being undisguised during rest, of course.

sure, the Clueless don't make food and drinks like in Elysium, but you still have good meal for your jink, no Hardheads, no fiends, probably few nosy magic-users, and almost certainly better air.

Loved the setting. Bought dam near all the books and box sets back when it came out for 2ed. Still have 'em. There are lots of cities and towns besides Sigil. The Outlands is ringed with gate towns, each one with a portal to one of the other outer planes. And there's at least one place where a traveler can rest and buy supplies in nearly every plane, except maybe the Abyss. But even there, the first layer has cities, although getting into them and not becoming something's slave or food can be tricky.

There are also the occasional real of a friendly or neutral power. Many of them have places that will do business with outsiders. The factions keep bases and such through-out the planes. Some of them are open to visitors for a fee, like the palace of the Believers of the Source on the eathrel plane.

>>213604

From what I remember, the Far Realm was only mentioned in some AD&D module for the first time. Then it got incorporated into Eberron's Realm of Madness, Xoriat. It would later on be mentioned again in 3e, and it would finally get a proper introduction in 4e. So as >>213627 said, it's not even a thing in 2e Planescape, and even when it's mentioned it's not part of the Cosmology, but this thing that's outside time and space.

But if you want to include it, fuck it, why not. Go wild. Sigil can link to anyplace, anytime. That includes other campaign settings, such as Eberron or Ravenloft. Athas is kinda impossible, but it also happened.

As for the cities and inns in the Far Realm, that's kinda hard to do. The plane doesn't operate on mortal logic, so even if there was a city standing (maybe even literally) in front of you, you'd never realize that it's a city. Or the inn would appear as a giant worm made from light and corpses.

Though there is one plane-hopping inn that's canon. The World Serpent Inn. It can shift planes, so maybe it can end up in the Far Realm occasionally. Then you could make the case that there is something like an inn in the Far Realm…

>>213754

Oh yeah, and if you want to remain in the confines of the Great Wheel cosmology (so the Far Realm isn't included as an independent plane) you can always go wild with the Astral and Ethereal planes. Or some weird Lovecraftian demiplane.

Example, Tharizdun's prison is a demiplane described as a giant purple crystal flying through space at ridiculous speeds. The crystal looks like it's constantly growing in weird, fractal patterns. The crystals themselves seem to be lit from the inside. And if you look into a crystal (which would be impossible not to, since the whole place is crystal), you'll see your own death in gruesome detail, or something equally maddening. And then you turn into an aberration.

>>213754

You're right. Planescape was introduced in 1994 and the Far Realm was introduced in 1996.

I just assumed that the Far Realm was a catch all for any place that didn't fit in the cosmology of the great wheel well such as the Dimension of Time or the Plane of Dreams and various other weird planes. I guess what I'm saying is that in my style of thinking then it'd be the "Far Realms" and not the "Far Realm." So, I was really asking about all the uncommon and strange places and not just the "Far Realm" location accessible from Firestorm Peaks.

>>213838

Nah, it's cool. My bad, I thought you meant the Far Realm (the 4e thing) specifically. Sorry.

If you go with all the strange planes, then yeah, there's probably a couple inns out there. Many of the demiplanes were created by incredibly powerful wizards, psions or deities, so it's to be expected that they'll have something where their visitors can stay for a while. The githyanki cities in the Astral also have their inns, built out of dead gods. I think Dis (the capitol city of the 2nd Circle of Hell, not the archduke) has an entire quarter devoted to inns. It also has an entire street that's filled with nothing but small temples to various evil deities who're not strong enough to forge their own realm, so they stay there and pay him rent, so you know, shit's weird. For all we know, there might be some plane made entirely of inns and hotels.

Shit, I hate that 8archives is kaput.

There was lot of interesting maps, and plot speculations for lower realms.

>>213871

in the previous threads I mean

Or would you rather set up camp in the Outlands themselves? You could do that, but given that it's filled with raides, monsters, scouting parties for the Blood War and all other kinds of nasties you'd better set up kip someplace safe. In the lands themselves there are a number of fortified fillages, strongholds of the Indeps and divine realms where one could be safe for the night, but not all might be friendly. So visiting one of the gate-towns might be a good idea, but not all are nice places to stay:

- Fortitude will bring you to Arcadia. It's a pretty place with parks, orchards and groves all over the area and its buildings are simple. The main attraction is the Confessional, where locals come to confess their sins and are punished appropriately. Sometimes people suspected of wrongdoings are dragged in and forced to confess, which is made easier because the people there can cast Know Alignment at will and Charm Person 1/day. So if you're a peeler, stay away.

- Excelsior is inhabited by a bunch of pleasent, kind and friendly people that'd drive a non-Lawful Good person to madness. It's paved with glowing yellow bricks that look like shining gold. It's got towers all over the place, and climbing the highest one will dump you into the Silver Sea of Mount Celestia. Despite its alignment the place's got its own thieves guild, which exclusively targets non-LG visitors. This does not sit well with various paladin lords whose floating citadels form the city's floating perimiter.

- Tradegate is a city of commerce and industry. Nothing's free here: even if you want basic information you gotta pay for it. You can buy pretty much anything here as long as it's non-evil, and the chant is you can even sell your chance at an afterlife for a pile of cold hard jink. Notable is that the gate to Bytopia is actually a person: a bariaur called Master Trader. If you want to go to Bytopia you gotta barter with him; while his prices are NOT cheap it'll always be within your range to pay.

- Ecstasy is not a bad place. While the locals might have some funny ideas regarding personal property and grab your stuff for closer inspection if it strikes their fancy, they won't steal from you. In fact, with a silver tongue you can talk your way out of minor messes that might as well get you put in the dead-book in the other gate-towns. The place is filled with monoliths with people sitting on them, contemplating the multiverse. One particular ivory monolith has a pool of quicksilver on top: jump in and you end up in Elysium. While here you can visit the Philosopher's Court and debate whatever you want, but don't expect to win. It also houses Revelhome, a magnificent festhall where you can get eat, drink, experience dalliances and romance and generally have a good time.

- Faunel has a rather unusual population: while one-third is the regular bunch of bashes you'd expect in a neutral good-chaotic burg, the other two-thirds of the population are talking animals. The city itself seems to be ruined and covered in moss and vines, but if you look closer you'll discover the tents of the humanoid inhabitants. It also houses the headquarters of the Signers. The gate to the Beastlands is guarded by Wrath, a stone statue that questions all that wish to enter the gate. Answer him truthfully and if you got a good reason to pass, he won't beat you into a pulp.

- Sylvania is a place of excitement, reveling and partying non-stop. The burg itself looks like utter madness: no two builds look alike with a massive mix of materials, designs and styles all next to one another. Some have spinning cogs, waterwheels without water or even move on their own. It's here where you go to party hard, experience excess, visit the Sensate embassy if you're so inclined and watch the followers of the Greek and Elven pantheons beat the shit out of one another. Getting to Arborea involves walking into the nearby forest, getting lost and trying to find your way out.

- Glorium is surrounded on all sides by mountains, so unless you can fly it'd be best to enter by ship. It's pretty much a viking village set up for the winter, and the life there is pretty rough. The people of this burg are loud, moody, easy to offend and alwasy ready for a fight. This puts them at odds with a nearby bariaur community. Given the lack of inns and such places makes for a rather uninviting place to stay, but if you prove yourself to the locals you'll have friends for life. The gateto Ysgard is pretty large and appears on the water: it's big enough to sail a longship into with ease.

>>213873

- Xaos (pronounced kay-os) is constantly changing: just because you've seen it one way doesn't mean the next visitor will see it like you did. That's what you get for being so close to the plane of ultimate chaos. The population varies greatly in size: it can go from 5 to 40.000 in a very short time span. The appearance of Xaos (pronounced ksa-os) can change even faster: going from small houses to pyramids to flats to tents and pits faster than you can manage. The area surrounding Xaos (prononced soaks) has fields, holes, mountains, forests and rivers changing constantly under the stress of the nearby plane. Having a powerful force of will when entering Xaos (pronounced ay-os) is required: if you fail you might as well go mad yourself. The town has no leaders, no government, no laws and no consistency. You might be a skillful sellsword one moment and a waiter the next. The only thing all people here like is watching visitors go barmy under the utter madness of Xaos (pronounced ax-os), and they love it. The gate to Limbo changes frequently as well, but for some reason it is always recognized as the gate to Limbo. But hey, that's how Xaos (pronounced bob) rolls.

- Bedlam sits at the bottom of a hill, where the gateto Pandemonium blows the wind from the plane into the burg. This maddening wind has driven the inhabitants to various degrees of insanity. The closer to the gate you are, the barmier you are. Staying for even a few days will drive one barmy. The people are petty, spiteful, malicious, twitchy and barmy as all hells. Filled with humans, bugbears, gnolls and more tanar'ri than is good for your health, the population is as big a threat to you as the maddening winds are. Overall, not a nice place to stay, even in the relatively peaceful Weylund's Inn.

- Plague-Mort is, as the name suggests, not a very nice place. The buildings are ill-maintained, the people are treacherous and spiteful, the local high-ups terrorise the population and oh yeah, there's a gate right into the Plain of Infinite Portals, also known as the first layer of the Abyss. People here either trek into the Abyss for whatever reason (the blessing of a dark power, adventure, riches) or they support the needs of those going into the Abyss. Neither of these groups are very nice people. Still, for those of you with a strong sword arm and the temperament that comes with being Chaotic Evil this is a decent place to trade and restock on goods that most upright berks would not dare touch.

- Curst is very welcoming to new visitors… but leaving might be a bit of a problem if you don't have proof of pressing matters elsewhere. Pretty much everyone here is a prisoner: refugees, escapees and exiles all try to amass forces to take revenge on whoever kicked them out. Unfortunately such plans almost always include taking over the burg first, and many such plots end in messy riots with a lot of people being put in the dead-book. The people here are whiny cunts who take slights easily and can hold grudges for a lifetime, and many of them are part of some cell or another of the Revolutionary League. The gate to Carceri sees little use, mainly because it's even more of a prison than its gate-town, and people don't want to be double exiled.

- Hopeless is… well, what do you think? It's build in a spiral going all the way down to the gate to the Gray Waste, inhabited by some of the most depressed sods you'll ever meet. They are so spent, tired and depressed they're not even capable of doing evil, which is not what you'd expect for a place of Neutral Evil. The gate is a puddle of black ooze at the bottom of a well. Touching it will send you to the Gray Waste, and if you know what you're doing you can use magic to control the ooze and throw it on people to send them there. The place is run by Thingol the Mocking, who has a pack of seven beholders under her command. How she did this nobody knows, but the fact is they're fanatically loyal to her, which frequently results in them being allowed to execute someone in a horrible way. Staying here for too long will make a body turn gray and develop a weakness to seeing bright color: so bad in fact that wearing bright colors will cause the locals to attack the source of the color in an attempt to make the color look more pale. Thingol exploits this in her performance art (when not performing Sontana for Songbird and Hammer) by painting a sod bright blue and watch them be torn apart by an angry mob.

>>213874

- Torch is located near a swamp set at the base of volcanic spires. When they erupt they send a stream of lava as well as disease and killer frogs towards the burg. The people of Torch are vicious, greedy and very dangerous. They believe the Outlands are theirs and will use any method available to get what they want. Fortunately for the rest of the Outlands this frequently put the people of Torch at odds with one another, meaning that the worst excesses are staved off. This also marks one of the few gate-towns that does not want to merge with their related plane, mainly because there's more stuff one can find or steal in the Outlands than there is in Gehenna. The gatethere is about 100 feet off the ground, requiring either flight or jumping off a nearby spire and good aim in order to get through.

- Ribcage is surprisingly low on fiends. Mainly because the local ruler doesn't like sharing his power with the Lords of the Nine and rather stay where he is as the highest authority around. This marks the outlook of many people in the gate-town: power, in any form, at any cost. Bribery and blackmail are common, and you must always suspect someone's trying to take advantage of you while you are here. The gate to Baator is not directly guarded, but you can't get there without the local lord finding out, and you might be stopped if he doesn't like you.

- Rigus is little more than a massive military encampment made of seven stacked octogonal rings. It is run with military efficiency: as long as you behave, conduct your business quickly and then leave you'll not find a lot of trouble. Military orders replace families, including forces from generals all the way down to civilians and slave-soldiers. The real power around here are the spirits of long-deceased generals, sticking around somehow as something not entirely unlike liches. Their crypt is located at the highest ring of the city, which also houses a mile-long spiral staircase going down to an archway made of bariaur bones containing a green-yellow portal with a black stripe in the center: the gate to Acheron.

- Automata is a bureaucratic nightmare. Rectangular in shape with city blocks all as big as one another it groups all buildings of the same type together, so expect to see all smiths in the same block. You can stay here if you want, but given how orderly everything is non-Guvners don't tend to stay very long. Everybody dresses the same, getting anything done involves filing miles of reports (and trying to play games with the law will have the Guvners, who fill all the important posts here, play games with you instead) and the gate to Mechanus is guarded at all hours. There is a criminal underground, with the tunnels under the city being a massive chaotic mess, the counterpart of the order above. This criminal element is the only thing keeping the gate-town ifrom joining Mechanus, and those caught going into or leaving the underground will be marked by proxies of the forces of law and Primus.

So there are plenty of places you can stay for the night, but don't expect the Outlands to be filled with havens of hospitality.

>>213871

What speculations? About the archdevils and ancient Baatorians?

>>213878

Yep those

>>213883

I was in those. Shoot, what do you wanna talk about?

Nah, I just wanted screencaps of those discussions for future campaigns.

I can't think of anything to discuss at the moment.

>>213894

Check this out. It's an old thread about ancient Baatorians and a lot of lower planes fluff.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/34338430/

Maybe you'll find something useful there.

You may find this relevant:

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Tome_of_Fiends_(3.5e_Sourcebook)/Campaigning_on_the_Lower_Planes

>>213838

I came up with a good name for what I meant there. It's "universum incognita" which seems descriptive enough to me.

What's up with the various exiled Archdevils again?

Geryon was ostensibly sent on a super secret mission for Asmodeus, but he was just used to store the power for Glasya for the day she'd take the throne of the Sixth. Moloch meanwhile got exiled and played a part in The Apocalypse Stone, but mopes around for the remaining part. Are there any others?

>>218581

Besides the Rabble?

Gargauth got kicked out of the Nine Hells because he was such a dick, even the other archdevils couldn't stand his shit. He then ended up in Forgotten Realms, where he became a God. And now wants to take over, drag Toril to the depths of Hell, and make it the Tenth Circle of Hell, and to usurp Asmodeus.

Which, according to some fan speculation out there, is exactly what Asmodeus wants him to do. Because if he ends up dragging an entire world (along with its pantheon) to the Nine Hells, all those souls and gods would end up consumed by the Overlord (Asmodeus in Serpent form). This would cause him to heal up, leave the Nine Hells and wreck the multiverse.

>>218617

Alright. What's the deal with the various Archdevils mentioned in Planes of Law that vanish later on? Are they just other names for the same ol' devils?

>>218796

I don't have the PoL book with me, sorry. Do you know the names of those devils?

I think you're talking about the Rabble of Devilkin, who are exiled / outcast devils hanging out on Avernus, plotting on taking back their old positions and avenging themselves on everyone who ever slighted them. Duskur (the Archdevil of Undeath), Amon (the Lord of Hunt) and the like?

I have made up a bit of headcanon:

- Gods (or powers) are entities that have authority over and claim to

the souls of their dead followers. They may or may not be

trientgods.

Some gods are:

Mystra, Selune and Vecna.

- Trientgods (or trientpowers) are entities that grant divine spells

to their worshippers. They may also be known as saints or apostles.

As trientgods do not have claim to the souls of their followers they

are typically only worshipped in a subsidiary manner to a higher

god. Many, trientgods quickly ascend to full status as gods or fade

into obscurity.

- Immortals are creatures that do not die of old age but only from

outside harm.

Some immortals are undead, constructs and most outsiders.

>>213874

That Xaos description with the pronunciations is perfect - chaotic, but not lolrandom bullshit.

>>213861

For all we know, there might be some plane made entirely of inns and hotels.

>>have we discovered the comfy dimension?

>>219302

>comfy dimension

I'd say that any realm governed by a God of Hearth would qualify. "Comfy" is their domain, after all.

Now I'm imagining this giant comfy-off between various gods over who's the most comfiest.

>>218800

Sources are in Faces of Evil as well around page 30 or so. Bel and Dispater are defined. The Third is "a bloated slug that prattles on and on about the virtue of greed and jink". He's called the Viscount and Minauros. The first being Mammon's, and the second being the layer's name. It is also stated that one Duchess Glasya is his consort, so that's a dead giveaway it's likely Mammon. Fourth is described as either "a darkly handsome, red-skinned male" or "a woman of incredible beauty with fire dancing in her eyes." Given how they go on about their unknown gender it's likely that this refers to Belial and Fierna.

The Firth is outright stated to be Levistus, but he's got someone called Amon the Wolf in his service. The Sixth is the Hag Countess Malagard, the seventh is Triel the Fallen (Baalzebul's old name), but it's the Eight that's the big question. He's called Molikroth, and his descriptions doen't match Mephistopheles.

Come to think of it though, what exactly are Belial and Levistus? Are they of the same ilk as Dispater, Mammon and Mephistopheles in that they are "true" devils? Or are they fallen Celestials like Zariel and Triel? Or are they something else entirely?

>>219380

Ah, that? Yeah, those are the same archdevils we have now. The thing is, because of the whole "DnD is satanism!" craze that was going on at the time, the writers couldn't just outright call them by their real-world names. Hence Minauros, Molikroth and the crew.

Mammon is the Viscount Minauros (full name). He appears as the giant snake/slug monster because, after the Reckoning of Hell (which happened sometime before Planescape's timeline) he decided to stop being Mammon in order to show to Asmodeus how he's a changed devil, and that he wouldn't betray him, honest. He switched from his bloated pit-fiend form into giant snake monster form, and changed his name as well.

Belial / Fierna are the two ruling the Fourth. But because Belial decided to step back (and rule from the shadows) and Fierna took the stage (as her daddy's mouthpiece), that's where the confusion comes from. It's written from the PoV of a regular berk in Sigil's streets who has no idea of the political clusterfucks that are going on in the Nine Hells. And the Baatezu aren't telling.

Molikroth is Mephistopheles. After the Reckoning, Mephistopheles sat on his throne, and didn't move for ages. He became frozen. One of his dukes, Molikroth, decided to stage a coup - he gathered like-minded individuals to him, while exiling everyone loyal to Mephistopheles away. Then, after a while, he called all his "allies" to the throne room to show them something wonderful. He revealed himself to be Mephistopheles in disguise, and showed them what he was working on in secret - Hellfire. So he burned all the traitors alive, reinstated himself as Mephistopheles, and unleashed Hellfire on the multiverse. Perfect plot.

As for Belial, he's a fallen angel, like Baalzebul. That's why they get along well.

As for Levistus… No idea. Never mentioned. He was never allied with anyone, but he does have some friendly relationships with Mephistopheles (he loans him souls needed for Hellfire experiments - probably hoping that Hellfire will free him from his ice prison). And if you go with apocryphal texts, he's Leviathan, the giant world eating serpent, and that the entire Fifth Hell is actually his prison.

>>219386

Forgot one part: Levistus was apparently always there. After Asmodeus took the throne of Hell, Levistus was already ruling the Fifth Circle.

Only after he attempted to fuck Bensozia, did he end up in a giant ice prison, and Geryon took over the Fifth Circle.

Another side note is that he's pretty friendly with the 'loths. Considering how Charon (the boatman, the guy in charge of the River Styx) is also a 'loth, and how Levistus is already swimming in the Styx, you could make the tenuous connection that Levistus might be a 'loth himself.

>>219387

Yeah, I know Levistus is rather chummy with the Yugoloths, which is rather frowned upon.

The story of him fucking Asmodeus' wife is a bit different though. You see, she approached him because her marriage was an unhappy one and you don't just dump Asmodeus. So she approached him and they started an affair, with her planning to make Levistus overthrow Asmodeus. But Levistus had another fuckbuddy: Bensozia's daughter, Glasya. One day she had a fight with her daddy and ran off to her lover Levistus, and found him balls-deep in her mom. This greatly enraged Glasya and she killed her mom.

Asmodeus' constable Martinet knew that if word came out that Bensozia had cheated on Asmodeus it would make his boss look bad, so he pinned the murder on Levistus who was put on ice. Asmodeus had some choice words for his daughter and kicked her out, where she set up shop in Mammon's court, who greatly appreciated the princess and they started an affair.

After the clusterfuck with the Reckoning Asmodeus broke the affair and made her the leader of the Erinyes, where she stayed until she learned some manners and was made the Lord of the Sixth as a reward.

All according to Asmodeus' plan.

>>219389

To be honest, I never bought the "Asmodeus loved Bensozia" story. He's the fucking overlord of the Nine Hells and the embodiment of LE, he shouldn't feel love.

No, the thing is that Bensozia gave birth to Glasya, and Asmodeus had no use for her anymore. He orchestrated her death himself, and it all went according to plan. Levistus (a wildcard in Hell politics) gets put on ice, Bensozia (who betrayed her master) gets a traitor's reward, and Glasya learns a valuable lesson in politics, as well as a target she can focus on instead of wasting her time having parties and fucking around.

>>219392

I like the angle of Asmodeus engineering Bensozia's death. It makes sense.

Another thing though. Did Glasya get the power of two Lords of the Nine when she became Lord of the Sixth?

Sure, Dispater, Mammon, Baalzebul and Mephistopheles all have their share. The power of the Lord of the First is still in Zariel's hands, but hers is being drained by Bel. Not sure if Belial's power is being shared with Fierna though.

So that leaves the Lords of the Fifth and the Sixth. Asmodeus specifically did not give Levistus the power associated with the Lord of the Fifth, so it must've remained with Geryon. Meanwhile, when he kicked out Moloch and replaced him with the Hag Countess, did the power from him get moved to her?

When the Hag Countess got replaced with Glasya she started to swell up to the point where she covered the plane and exploded. When Geryon got stripped of his power he turned into a Vestige. And that power all had to go somewhere. Did Glasya get double charged or something? I know that Asmodeus has plans for her because of her unique nature (she can leave Baator whenever she wants), and this might be part of that. Or did I miss something?

>>219393

No, Belial kept his power to himself. Fierna is Lord in name only, Belial is still the true power in the Fourth.

Levistus kept his old power, even after being imprisoned. Geryon's energy probably ended up consumed to keep Levistus in place, though. That would explain why that ice prison never budges an inch despite all the stuff Levistus and his minions are trying to do to it. Or Asmodeus consumed it, just to rub more salt into Geryon's wounds.

Moloch's power passed onto Malagarde, and then to Glasya. Malagarde tried to become a deity at one point through an unholy ritual, which apparently Asmodeus sabotaged. So all that divine energy she absorbed caused her to explode and reform the Sixth layer. Her usual (so, her Lord of Sixth) energy got passed down to Glasya. Probably a bit of it went to Asmodeus as well.

So nope, Glasya has only the power of one Lord. Asmodeus probably still wants to keep her under wraps, and having a rebellious daughter with the strength of two Archdevils would spell disaster.

Fair enough. On a different subject: why do the inhabitants of the Upper Planes just sit around doing fuck all?

- On Arcadia people are all about order and stuff without actually trying to spread it.

- On Mount Celestia it's all about serving the hierarchy and doing good on a small scale where it's ineffectual.

- The Bytopians are busy living in a middle ages-set Disney movie, but without royalty.

- On Elysium everything's Narnia as fuck and people are high on goodness.

- The Beastlands are filled to the brim with animals that live their animal lives.

- The Eladrin fucked up one time invading the Abyss and have been butthurt about it ever since.

- While Ysgard is Viking Central they're too busy fighting each other to get shit done.

So why not marshall a masive army and steamroll the Lower Planes? Sure, there might be infinite devils and demons but those are only two infinite forces while the Upper Planes have seven. Even if the Yugoloth join in the fiends are stil outnumbered. The more Lawful planes have some rather militant elements that are more busy with building forces rather than using them, and on the Chaotic side of things there are people too busy helping on a small scale or jerking off (in some cases quite literally) to do things. I mean, you got a massive number of celestial firebreathing T. rexes, do something with them! Eladrin are powerful soldiers so do something with them, or at least let them go on their own so it doesn't cut into the time that Queen Morwel can spend on having bisexual threesomes with her consort and her champion. Talsid and his buddies are an epic level adventuring party, you'd expect them to actually go, ya know, adventuring. And what are the vikigns waiting for, for Ahriman's wounds to heal and rise up from Nessus to lay waste to the multiverse, so that they can fight in Ragnarok?

>>219437

Even united, the Abyss alone outnumbers all the 7 Good planes. And the last time they united and invaded the Lower Planes, they only managed to unite the various fiends together and got their ass handed to them. It got to the point that the Upper Planes were almost invaded by an united Evil Front.

Luckily for the forces of Good, the invasion failed because the Evil dudes could not decide over who to steamroll first. The devils wanted to crush the Eladrin, the Abyss wanted to crush Celestia and so on. And then the infighting started. That, and you don't want the Rilmani to BALANCE things out.

Since then, the forces of Good have been fighting a losing battle. They started blaming each other over who's responsible for why they lost (with the Eladrin blaming the Archons, the Archons blaming the Eladrin, Arcadians deciding that this was a bad idea because they'd be the first on the shitlist if something happened) and so on. They even stopped trying to rally forces of Good to their cause, deciding that it's better if the mortals themselves handle that shit instead of them actively interfering (because the last time they did that, Triel and his crew fell to Evil because mortals suck so much).

The Good guys lost the decisive battle back then, when Evil was far less organized and weak. They have no chance at victory now. The best they can do is hope the Blood War lasts forever.

Planescape is grim as fuck.

>>219551

>The initial conflict in the multiverse was Law VS Chaos

Where did you get that? That's the current conflict (Blood War). The conflict before that was Good vs Evil, and what happened before that we can only guess, but apparently was the Neutral races fighting each other.

>where the fuck did the Eladrin come from?

They sprung up naturally from Arborea.

Though if you wanna go into history of Arborea, there was a race of CG Exemplars before the Eladrin. There are ruins that belonged to them on one of the layers (the desert one). They disappeared after a while, and the Eladrin (who are more similar to Lantern archons than anything else, because they're actually balls of light that take on the form of fancy elves) took their place.

As for what came even before them, it's rumored that there was an even older race that, similar to the Baerns and the 'loths, split from TG into the CG and LG races.

>>219561

>Where did you get that? That's the current conflict (Blood War). The conflict before that was Good vs Evil, and what happened before that we can only guess, but apparently was the Neutral races fighting each other.

It's the initial conflict between the forces of Law (mostly all of the gods and their soldiers) against the forces of Chaos (mostly the Obyrith and their Tanar'ri). Asmodeus was on the side of Law, suckered the gods into giving him Baator and he and his bros Dispater, Mammon, Mephistopheles and all the other angels on his side joined him there. They roughed up the critters living on Baator, Asmodeus kicked Zargon's ass and threw his horn to the Prime Material while making up the story that he was not powerful enough to kill Zargon, and began to form his plan for Evil. This history works both with and without the Asmodeus-is-Ahriman story.

>>219568

You mean the war with the Wind-Dukes of Aaqa?

That one's kinda fucked up to pinpoint. The Obyriths came way later. The original war (the 1e one) had two Inner Races (the Aaqa as the Lawful one and the other who were Chaotic) fight it out over the Prime / Inner planes. At that time, the Outer planes weren't even formed.

Then 3e came, retconned the fuck out of it, and decided that the Vaati fought with the Obyriths who were also at the time fighting with the proto-Modrons (who became Baatorians).

But at the same time, you have the Outer Planes forming, and the various TN subspecies splitting into alignment. So you could say that the first war in the Universe (Inner / Prime) was between the Law and Chaos, and the first in the Outer is a huge unknown, with the G vs E conflict being the potentially first.

It's a clusterfuck.

>>219575

Oh yeah, one more thing.

The original, first Outer Planar races were all some variant of Neutral (TN, NE, NG, LN, CN) because they were influenced by the Inner Planes.

Then they started cross-breeding, and the aphanacts (angelic-looking proto-modrons related to the Inevitables, probably Asmodeus' real race) crossbred with Lawful 'loth refuse, and you get the Baatezu.

>>219575

>>219578

Huh, I figured the timeline to have gone something like this:

>There's Chaos and only Chaos

>Things start to resist Chaos, become Law

>Law and Chaos start to fuck each other up

>Somewhere around here the Aboleth show up, but they're not important

>Asmodeus rises to prominence

>The Queen of Chaos roughes up Obox-ob and becomes the leader of the Obyrith. She makes Miska the Wolf-Spider the Prince of Demons, securing the loyalty of the Tanar'ri

>Tired of having Asmodeus fuck up their peace with the screams of torture victims, they sign the Pact Primordial in triplicate: one copy goes to Mount Celestia, one copy goes to Mechanus, one copy goes to Baator with Asmodeus

>With Asmodeus and his buddies buggered off, the war against Chaos goes south

>Wind Dukes of Aaqa make the Rod of Seven Parts, use it to fuck Miska's shit and lock him away on Pandemonium

>Queen of Chaos and her forces retreat to the Abyss

>Eladrin invade and fuck everyone's shit up, slaughtering many of the Obyrith

>Tanar'ri rebel and join in on the killing

>Eladrin forces get beaten and locked in the Abyss

>Queen of Chaos mopes about looking for a way to free her boytoy

>Demogorgon proclaims himself the new Prince of Demons

>Raiding parties of Baatezu and Tanar'ri explore the Lower Planes, run into each other and start to fight

>This eventually escalates into the Blood War, raging to this very day

And then history began.

>>219587

Nah, it actually goes Proto Prime -> Elemental Planes & Prime -> Outer Planes.

The Tanar'ri are specifically said to have been born from mortal fears and emotions (Demogorgon is the mortal fear of savage beasts and nature given form, for example), while the Obyriths came from the time before mortals. And they were locked in a war with Elementals, meaning that the Elementals are older than mortal races.

So all that chaos in Limbo? Yeah, that's how the Multiverse was before Law was brought unto the planes.

Is there something of an overview of all the various sects (not factions) in Planescape? I've seen the ones on 1d4chan, but I know that list is not complete.

>>213409

>>213484

>>213575

>>213576

noice

>>213400

The fist picture looked awfully like DIO before clicking it.

>>219926

Something like this?

> http://mimir.net/sects/

> https://to-chance-with-hell-planescape.obsidianportal.com/wikis/sects-and-ex-factions

>>220022

The first link mixes fanfiction with actual stuff, and the other mixes those that are actually statted out with those that are not.

Also, nice 3x dubs combo.

What is the Dustmen opinion on Construct types? How can something that was never alive obtain true death?

>>220163

The elemental spirit within it can.

>>220190

That animating elemental spark is not the construct.

Does Kylie the Tout know that her mother is Shemeshka the Marauder, and that mom is looking after her little girl?

Does anyone have a link to the planescape books?

>>220627

https://spillklubben.samfunnet.no/Filer/ad&dbooks/

>>220597

IIRC, nope. She knows that she has somebody looking over her, but no idea that someone is Shmeeshka.

>>220627

https://kat.cr/tsr-d-d-products-basic-and-advanced-dungeons-and-dragons-t7554653.html

Looking at Factol Rowan Darkwood's story, I realized that his perfectly normal life was fucked up because he let his kids play with what turned out to be a Deck of Many Things. Everything that happened from that point onwards, him going to the Planes, becoming a cleric of Heimdall, figuring out how to become a Prolonger, settling in Sigil, deciding he wanted to rule it, going from newly sworn in member of the Takers all the way to its Factol in a matter of minutes because of some dirt he had on the old Factol, radically repurposing them into a more aggressive force of tax collectors, stumbling upon the stone needed to cast the Sigil spell and changing it forever, plotting a war between the various factions, seducing and marrying the Mercykiller Factol so that he gained the loyalty of the Mercykillers, selling his new wife to the fiends, have a Sigil-wide war break out, get send to the Mazes by the Lady of Pain, escaping via a very carefully-worded Wish spell bought from a Prime wizard, realize he's been sent 500 years back in time, get locked up in the Gatehouse because people think he's gone barmy, live 500 years to catch up to his current self, escape with the help of a few cutters, try and cast the Sigil spell with the stone only to fail and get whisked back in time to become the creator of the Sigil spell in the first place, which would end up inspiring his younger self to try and use it to overthrow the Lady of Pain. Unity of Rings and all that.

All thanks to a single Deck of Many Things.

>>222439

Whoops, forgot to mention that his fuckery also brought down the other factions because the Lady of Pain decided she's had enough of them fucking everyone's shit up and almost all Factols save for a few get send to the Mazes. The Bleaker Factol goes barmy right before it all begins, appoints a successor and enters the Grim Retreat (but he intends to return, something that's never been done before), the Factols of the Harmonium and the Fraternity of Order are assassinated, the Mercykiler Factol is sold to the fiends and Darkwood himself gets kicked back in time again by the Lady of Pain. The only one to give the Mazes the laugh is Factol Rhys of the Transcendent Order, who senses bad shit coming and goes underground on Elysium until everything's over.

After all this the Lady of Pain messes with the portals a bit and outlaws the existence of the factions. Some of them pack their bags and go to their home in the Outer Planes, others just tear up their charter and continue as they have always done, just without the names and symbols. The members of some factions celebrate the downfall of the factions, especially the Revolutionary League. Who then discovered they had nothing to engage in a revolution against and began to succumb to infighting. The Believers of the Source and the Sign of One were pretty cut up from the civil war, so they banded together and formed the Mind's Eye, traveling the planes. Meanwhile, the Mercykillers split off into the Sodkillers (LE mercenaries) and the Sons of Mercy (LG, seek to habillitate criminals and their punishments are to make up for the crimes they committed). Three remain three. Rule of Three.

All of that because of a Deck of Many Things.

>>213604

Well there are gates to each plain on the great disc on which Sigil sits at the center of. There are towns built up around the portals to these planes. They usually somewhat personify the plane they are built up around.

>>222464

The Far Realm does not have gate towns like the big sixteen in the Outlands linking to the Outer Planes.

>>222439

Yeah, that's a cool story and all, but I'm not playing TTRPGs to be an extra in a movie about the writers' super-awesome character. I want MY character to be getting cryptic advice from the crazy old man in the asylum that's actually himself from the future.

Fuck "metaplot," and fuck all designers' special super-cool favorite characters.

>>222530

That's the adventure: the players get stuck in a plot with the Xaositects pulling one of their plots all the way up to the confrontaiton with Darkwood himself, obtaining the Labyrinth Stone and using its power to end the war as they see fit. It's actually them doing it for a change and not some NPCs like with so many other metaplots.

>>222470

What is Far Realm anyway?

>>222470

What is Far Realm anyway?

>>223076

I mean I know the basic gist.

> realm of madness

> cthulhustuff

I mean in relation to all the planar stuff.

Is it like prototypical chaos stuff that's left over from creating the planes?

Awright, we'll start with Sigil. Sort of… Sigil is the city of doors, there's a portal to everywhere in Sigil, bear in mind you don't need a specialist to open them, literaly any 0th level street urchin could know what the key to a portal is and where it goes. It's also possible to open one and walk through it without realizing it until you're blinking in confusion on the other side because when it's said the key could be anything that includes the dog shit on your shoe. a piece of string exactly 1.27 inches in your left coat pocket, or a specific song being stuck in your head.

Sigil is city built on the inside of a donut that floats just above an infinitely tall spire. which is at the exact center of an infinite plane of existence. At the edges of this infinite plane of existence are cities built around doors to other infinite planes of existence. Because that's how shit works in the outer planes where thought becomes reality. There are setlements all over the various planes. For starters, there are plenty of normal people who have just been born there. So an orc tribe sacking and raping their way across one plane or another isn't really a stretch. Then there are the petitioners, the souls of deceased mortals who end up in whatever plane their alignment corresponds to. Then there are the Planar natives to the plane itself. The Angels, the Rilimani, the Slaad, the Baatazue and the Tanari for example.

What they're all engaged in is one massive ideological war. Whether they realize it or not (most of the Planar Creatures do, those capable of thought anyway. doubt a dretch or a Bodak could have a meaningful philosophical conversation) because again, thought shapes reality.

Those border cities? Eventually one to many people with the proper alignment walks in, and the whole thing gets sucked through the portal into the plane it aligned with.Then a new city pops up in it's place, over night, just like the last one. Because that's just how it works. Everyone, everyone, EVERYONE is caught up in a massive strugle to dominate the outer planes, absorb all the other planes, and become the ONE TRUE ALIGNMENT. An exercise as pointless as trying to calculate Pi all the way to it's end. But the ones driving this conflict, even the ones fully aware of that fact, CANNOT STOP because they are literally made out of Alignment. Trying to go against that is like trying to gnaw your own arm off. Which is why should your party stumble upon one that HAS so altered it's behaviour to shift it's alignment, it should be a wretched crippled shadow of it's former self wallowing in self pity. Yes, that Lawfull Good Balor isn't just having an existential crisis, it's doing the extra-planar equivalent of trying to exist without a liver.

Which planes does Planescape supplements don't go deep enough?

>>223077

>Is it like prototypical chaos stuff that's left over from creating the planes?

Nah, that's Limbo.

We have no idea what the Far Realm really is. No setting really goes into it, besides screaming "IT'S STRANGE AND LOVECRAFTIAN" over and over again. What we do know is that aberrations such as Beholders came from it, and that it's the same Far Realm that's threatening every cosmology everywhere (meaning that, no matter if you play Forgotten Realms, Planescape, Spelljammer or your own special Donut Steel setting, the Far Realm is somewhere out there, waiting).

You could make the case that the Far Realm is the meta realm, the inbetween every setting that exist. The domain of DMs everywhere.

On the other hand, it's basically the "realm mortals can't understand". That's why it's usually not even drawn on Planar maps, or if it is, it's just referred to as "Outside" - as in "outside mortal comprehension". You could make the interesting case that while it is outside mortal comprehension, that does not cover the comprehension of Gods and other things. In that case, the Far Realm is to the Outer Planes what the Outer Planes are to the Inner Planes.

Or, if you're a fan of the theory of the three giant cosmic serpents of Law, then the Far Realm is the stuff they couldn't organize to fit their vision of the multiverse. It's chaos, but it's not the leftover chaos - that would imply there's less of it than the multiverse, and that's wrong. It's more like it's the giant strange sea of ideas and concepts in which the multiverses float.

>>225169

Any not named Mount Celestia, Baator or the Abyss.

>>223117

A Lawful-Good Bleaker Balor who just can't see the point of evil but finds good too depressing?

>>227264

Best thing about Bel is that he wasn't given the title of an Archdevil. Asmodeus never invested the power needed to make him one, and that's why he's forced to eat Zariel on a daily basis.

Probably a smart move, since Bel is apparently savvy enough to use any chance given to him to advance. If he was imbued with the power of an Archdevil, who knows what the guy might accomplish?

>>227265

My pet theory as to why Asmodeus hasn't killed Levistus yet is that Levistus and Asmodeus are actually close allies. Levistus rules over the Styx, the river that erases the memories of anything that drinks from it. Asmodeus has many secrets he wants hidden, such as his true form as a giant cosmic serpent.

Glasya will never get the green light to kill him, because Levistus and Asmodeus have been in cahoots since time immemorial. Bensozia fulfilled her purpose as the incubator for Glasya, so he let Levistus do whatever he wants with her. The only thing that matters to Asmodeus right now is that Glasya manages to break free from Hell, after which he'll discard her just like he did with her mother.

Or, if you want to go insane with conspiracies, Asmodeus, Lucifer and Levistus are aspects of the same giant cosmic serpent thing. Levistus is mentioned in some sources as the Leviathan, aka a giant snake monster. Pretty big coincidence there.

>>213409

There was a youtuber who did a brilliant explanation on the LoP (as far as I know) however he's fallen out of favor recently and out of his damn mind.

Linking, can't make a webm, your call: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnMzDyIJT2g

If you go for advice from him in the future, don't. He metagames HARD (Don't get on the boat, don't trust women, just knock on the door since they have to open it to see who it is, etc), but his stories are very entertaining (at least to myself 5 or 10 years ago).

Short version, the LoP can fuck you in a myriad of ways, but worse case it will "maze" you. Teleport you to your own personal plane into a maze even an immortal would never get to the end of.

Also, never worship the LoP. It's implied worship of it would turn it into a God, something less than it already is. Graven images of it attract it and make it kill/uncreate anyone responsible.

>>213400

>>213409

>>213484

>>213575

>>213576

>>213873

>>213874

>>213876

>>213604

>>213754

Please tell me someone can screencap and stitch these together? This is all fucking beautiful!

Planescape also sounds a little like Digimon. A fantastical "wonderland" that has the best and worst of everything in every environment.

Can someone run campaigns starting from level 1 here, or is this 15+ or even 20 and… whatever the hell you do after 20.

>>227317

I like the Planescape setting but I hate the Lady of Pain circlejerk.

>>227345

You can start at level 1, sure..

>>227345

Yeah level 1 campaigns work. You just need to stick to Sigil and not be an idiot.

>>227345

>Can someone run campaigns starting from level 1 here, or is this 15+ or even 20 and… whatever the hell you do after 20.

Sure. As >>227440 stated, for the lower levels you will want to stay in Sigil, pitting the players against player race enemies. Keep them as simple low-life though; pissing off the Factions at this point is suicide. Further on, the Planescape Boxed Set suggests four layers of depth:

- At the lowest levels stay in Sigil. Teach the players the layout of the city, what's going on there and all that stuff from the relative safety and predictability of the Cage.

- After the players get a few levels under their belts send them out-of-town, aka the Outlands. There's more stuff to do there, but it's more dangerous with beasts, raiders, the occational roving band of planars and what-else out there. Also, the Outlands themselves can be a mess to navigate: going from anywhere to anywhere takes at least 3d6 days. So pack a lunch. Also, certain magic works differently here so have your wizard read up.

- When around level 10 and knowing the dark of the Outlands players will want to explore the planes and see what they have to offer. The Great Wheel is dangerous though, and a wise basher loads up on gear and information first. Learn where you should wear ear plugs, where to avoid locals, where you can safely talk with locals, where you should not summon your celestial steed, where you should not go to trade even if the place seems perfectly safe, and so on and so forth. Still, the planes are too large for even immortal cutters to fully experience.

- If the players are still standing after this, they can venture into the more dangerous places. Not just the Lower Planes, but also things like the Inner Planes, where death can come in seconds if you're not careful. At this point players might want to build a legacy: become a Factol, set up a town in the Outlands, become a Proxy, create a demiplane in the Ethereal or just become demigods of their own.

The most important thing to know about Planescape though is that you're not there to kill everything. There are infinite numbers of fiends out there, you can't kill them all. You can't go and kill the Slaad lords and expect the Slaadi to just disband, kill the queen of the Githyanki, go teabag Dispater into submission, have Graz'zt summoned to Oerth permanently and have the Abyss fall into even more chaos, or "defeat" evil. Planescape doesn't fly like that: it is infinite and you are not. And don't you forget that, berk.

In Planescape there are these things called "Mimirs". They're construct skulls that basically act as an encyclopedia, usually on the subject of describing the Planes. They made a CD about one, that was basically some short audio plays describing all the Outer Planes and the Outlands.

CD was called A Player's Primer to the Outlands. I'm working on getting the entire thing uploaded to Youtube. It's pretty cheesy stuff, the acting is kinda meh, but it seems like a pretty effective way of getting a feel for the places outside Sigil.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1BfqQU1kns

>>228026

I liked the idea I read recently that Mephistopheles is the Archduke of Despair. Similar to how Mammon is the Archduke of Greed, or Baalzebul the Archduke of Pride, good ol' Mephistopheles rules over Despair - and is a victim of it.

All his schemes? All his pursuits of knowledge (the guy is the patron of wizards, after all)? All his inventions? They're meaningless to him. Deep down, he knows that everything he does is meaningless, and that's why he's so desperate to attain Asmodeus' throne. He hopes against hope that with it, he might attain some new knowledge, something that would put all the pieces together. That's why he's the most ambitious and the most curious one - he needs something that would give him meaning.

His posturing is just that - posturing. That's why he flies into blind rages when he's all alone. That's why he's risking it all on this Hellfire thing. That's why he's dabbling with ancient Baatorians and things that should not be. He's desperate for meaning. And if he accepted that Evil is meaningless, he'll simply stop existing - since he's made of Evil, after all.

It's a pretty neat idea. It manages to give him some real depth, and puts his rivalry with Asmodeus in a completely different light - if Mephistopheles rules over what is known; Asmodeus. with his plots and schemes and the fact that he's an ancient cosmic serpent, rules over everything that is unknown. That's why Mephistopheles desires his throne and knowledge so much. That's why Baalphegor is his consort. That's why he's the patron of intellectuals and wizards.

He wants to know. And not knowing drives him insane.

>>228042

So the seven sins plus despair for the Archdukes, hm? Let's see…

- Bel: Gluttony (because he wants more powers, to rise higher and become more)

- Dispater: Sloth (because he sits on his ass all day working through others)

- Mammon: Greed

- Belial: Lust (because incest)

- Levistus: Envy (because he's not a devil, he's locked away, he wants things that others have like Glasya and her mom)

- Glasya: Wrath (because piss her off and she'll fuck your shit up like your shit's never been fucked up before)

- Baalzebul: Pride

- Mephistopheles: Despair

>>228153

I think the seven sins are more Abyssal things (hell, it's even confirmed in Dragon 353). The Archdukes are more obsessions, certain patterns (we're talking about Law here) that drives people to do evil shit.

> Mephistopheles? Obsessed with knowledge.

> Baalzebul? Obsessed with perfection.

> Dispater? Obsessed with keeping power.

And so on.

>>223076

The vaguely ctulhu-ey plot device Bruce made up for one module that causes raging hard-on among the tentacle crowd and therefore had to be wanked to death and back in 3e.

Since it doesn't have a place in Planescape multiverse or add anything meaningful at all, best ignored altogether if you're not into hentai stuff.

>>228862

4e, not 3e.

>>227317

I prefer to make it indifferent.

Because I'm the DM and I can make the Lady of Pain my bitch

>>228866

Far Realm was wanked to death in late 3E, it just became core in 4.

>>219437

>and the last time they united and invaded the Lower Planes, they only managed to unite the various fiends together and got their ass handed to them

Speaking of which, how the fuck does recent "lol, Asmodeus got a big chunk of everything on the lower planes for himself after ascending to the Greater Deity of Sin" lore mesh with "the only think keeping the fiends from overrunning the universe might be the Blood War"?

>>229199

It doesn't. 4e lore is garbage, and you should ignore it.

If you want to know details about why, basically Asmodeus devoured a lesser god of magic. This gave him enough of a power boost to push the entire Abyss out of the Great Wheel and into the Elemental Chaos. Yes, Asmodeus is now capable of MOVING ENTIRE FUCKING PLANES OF EXISTENCE AROUND. And he's still a Greater Deity, like Vecna, and not an Overdeity like Ao and shit.

Anyway, the Tanar'ri realized that Asmodeus is far stronger than anything they've ever faced, collectively shat their pants, and quit the Blood War (for now). Because Asmodeus is so awesome, lol.

4e lore is absolutely shit.

>>229244

Yeah, but pure chaos(plus evil) deciding to serve pure law(plus evil) seems really, really, REALLY shit, even by the standards of incompetent writing.

>>229292

They don't serve him, they just decided that he's too strong for them at the moment. So the entire Abyss decided to agree to a ceasefire with the Devils.

Which, considering how we're talking about the guys that have omnicide as their modus operandi is fucking stupid. Not to mention that they have several Gods that should be equal in power to Asmodeus (like Lolth) and that there are countless Demon Princes out there, some of which so old that they predate the current multiverse.

But nope, Asmodeus has to be the bigger bad in every situation.

On a side note, the whole "demons and devils make peace with each other" part? The multiverse is officially fucked now. The Blood War was the only thing that prevented the forces of Evil from swarming over existence. And now that it's over, everyone's going to get curbstomped by fiendish boots. And besides that, even if you say that the forces of Good might put up a fight, how do you fight a guy WHO CAN MOVE ENTIRE PLANES AT WILL AND THIS IS FUCKING STUPID.

And even though he's capable of shattering the cosmology as we know it, Asmodeus is still unable to escape from Hell because of a curse. 4e is fucking retarded.

One of my favorite fan theories has to do with both Asmodeus and Graz'zt. You see, Graz'zt is a very unusual demon. While we don't know much about the Abat-Dolor, we do know that Graz'zt is actually very polite, affable and stangely capable of honor. Almost… devilishly. Rumors are what while he's an Abat-Dolor, he's also something else. Namely, Asmodeus' son. His eldest, in fact. Asmodeus would've planted his son in the Abyss that when time comes he would turn on all the demons and help in the overthrowing of their forces. Or perhaps lead them once Ahriman is freed and begins to remake the rest of the multiverse.

Now, if this were the case it'd be disasterous for Glasya: she is currently Asmodeus' only child and therefore heir, but if she had competition from an older brother with so many resources at his disposal… well, that wouldn't go ove well for her. But the chance this is actually the case is so very small, so she needs not worry, right? Unfortunately belief is power in Planescape, and if enough people believe that Graz'zt is the son of Asmodeus it becomes such. So the guy is playing a very long game where he slowly makes people believe this is true, and if he hits that boundary…

So of course I had to turn this into a possible adventure.

Few people know this though, and Glasya sure as hell isn't going to advertise this. Daddy is awfully quiet on thesubject, so she turns to an unlikely ally: Bel, the Lord of the First. After all, if it turned out true and Graz'zt gained the upper hand in the Abyss and turned the attention of the demons elsewhere, there'd be no more Blood War and he'd be out of a job. On top of this, there are a number of Celestials who'd glady see the Blood War prolonged and intensified so that the fiends would be too busy to invade the upper planes. And so this unlikely alliance sets out to put an end to Graz'zt's machinations and prevent an unholy alliance of devils and demons forming.

>>233791

Dunno, Graz'zt doesn't strike me as someone who'd boast about being someone's son. Hell, he might be related to Pale Night (the OG Obyrith), but you don't see him talking about that or calling mommy for help. Graz'zt is more the self-made man - from consort to the queen of the Abat-Dolor to a ruler of three layers.

Though I can see Malcanthet spreading such rumors around. Being a bitch is all she's about, after all. Convince everyone that Graz'zt is Asmo's illegitimate son, and you cause trouble for both the devils and your hated enemy. In Baator, Glasya would cause a shitstorm over Graz'zt being her half-brother, while every demon in the Abyss would join in gangbanging Graz'zt just because he has Baatezu blood in him.

What's the difference between the following? Also does having the Demiplane spell make me on par with an archfiend because I have my own domain?

- Demipower/Power

- Demigod/Demipower

- Exarch

- Overgod

- Primordial

- Estelar

- Archomental

- Archfiend

- Archdevil

- Duke of Hell

- Baernoloths

- Abyssal Lord

- Demon Lord

- Obyrith Lord

- Celestial Paragon

- Archon Paragons/The Celestial Hebdomad

- Eladrin Paragons

- The Court of Stars

- Guardinal Paragons/Talisid and the Five Companions

- Slaad Lords

- Titans

>>235248

Well, let's see what we got here:

>Power

Catch-all name for gods.

>Demigod/Demipower

A low-ranking god, the first rung on the ladder of godhood. Demigods often have portfolio with a limited scope, or are more powerful gods who took a beating.

>Exarch

Term comes from 4e. Pretty much makes you a divine Boy Wonder to your patron's Batman. Many gods from 3e Forgotten Realms were shuffled to be Exarchs to the more powerful gods in 4e, like how Sharess became an Exarch of Sune. Often gods themselves, but not always: they can be extremely powerful mortals well on their way to demigod status. Some of them draw worshippers and can grant spells.

>Overgod

A captail G God. Ao the Overmind is one: he is to the gods what gods are to mortals. Getting YHWH up in this bitch, they stay away from the Games of Divinity to instead to all sorts of Tetragrammaton stuff.

>Estelar

Fancy name for the gods of Forgotten Realms.

>Primordial

Come from 4e. Pretty much the Titans of Greek mythology, got bitchslapped by the gods and creation was made. Some were killed, others were imprisoned or exiled, others still roam the cosmos trying to defeat the gods and return existence to the primordial chaos it once was. Some of them were retconned from…

>Archomental

Older term designating the most powerful elementals, ruling over their kin and waging war on their rivals amongst the other elementals and with their good/evil kin. If you know Ragnaros from Warcraft, you know what they're like.

>Archfiend

Pretty much any sufficiently powerful fiend, a ruler and warlord of their kind.

>Archdevil

An archfiend who is a devil.

>Duke of Hell

One of the nine Dukes of Hell, also known as the Lords of the Nine. You can read more on them here: >>228025 >>228026, with pictures being here: >>227263 >>227264 >>227265. Note that the ones in the first link are Archdevils, but the ones in the second and third pictures aren't because they are other things (fallen celestials, whatever Levistus is and the whole deal with Asmodeus makes his and Glasya's heritage suspect).

>Baernoloths

The most powerful of the Yugoloth. Normally outside the usual hierarchy of their kind, they are beings of exceptional powers and run schemes that play the truly long game. Some Yugoloth seek them out for advise, favors or other boons, but this is extremely dangerous for the Yugoloth involved because of the Baernoloths' nature.

>Abyssal Lord

Any entity ruling over at least one layer of the Abyss.

>Demon Lord

An Abyssal Lord who is a demon. See >>228309 >>228312 >>228315

>Obyrith Lord

An Abyssal Lord who is a Obyrith.

>>235283

>Celestial Paragon

Any sufficiently powerful Celestial who is seen as a leader of their kind.

>Archon Paragons/The Celestial Hebdomad

The seven rulers of the seven layers of Mount Celestia. See >>227267 >>227269 >>227270

>Eladrin Paragons

The Celestial Paragons who are Eladrin. They belong to…

>The Court of Stars

Queen Morwel, the ruler of the Eladrin, alongside her court. See >>219551

>Guardinal Paragons/Talisid and the Five Companions

Talsid and the Five Companions are the first amongst equals for the Guardinals, who are NG furries. See more >>227275 >>227280

>Slaad Lords

The rulers of the Slaad, though their race is too chaotic to effectively "rule". They are Ygorl, Ssendam, Chourst and Rennbuu.

>Titans

Very powerful CG (sometimes CE) beings created as the right-hand men and women of the gods. Only the most powerful of celestials can match them in power, and the fiends that'd willingly face them are few and far between. In 4e they are simply more powerful giants.

>>235248

>Also does having the Demiplane spell make me on par with an archfiend because I have my own domain?

That's like saying you're a king because you own a house, so no.

>>235283

Technically the Baerns aren't Yugoloths, they're their ancestors. Kinda like the Obyriths and the Tanar'ri.

Are Primordial/Archomental/Archfiend/Archdevil/Duke of Hell/Baernoloths/Abyssal Lord/Demon Lord/Obyrith Lord/Celestial Paragon/Archon Paragons/Eladrin Paragons/Guardinal Paragons/Slaad Lords/Titans powers or gods?

>>227317

his "so you want to be evil" video makes for a great argument against using alignments. they're a crutch for GM's who can't handle uncertainty (honestly people who should stick to videogames), encourage playing boring caricatures, and pigeonholing your fellow player's characters into shallow stereotypes.

>>235287

No, they're just the greatest of their respective species. They have the power equal to (or even surpassing) that of the gods, but unlike gods, they don't require worship and faith to keep on living.

>>235301

People who refuse to use alignments are triggered by absolute morality and when their villains are called evil.

>>213691

And people who don't use annoying 'look at me, I'm just like Shadowrun' slang. Also a plus.

>>222715

Bull.

Shit.

They do nothing but follow around rambling NPCs for the entire fucking adventure.

And then the NPCs settle everything while they stand there, watching, thumb up ass.

And the terrible, terrible mascot NPC of the setting whisks the problem away, and the PCs never find out what the fuck that was all about, but here's pages and pages of fucking text in the fucking book letting you know what happened.

And 'Faction War' is only the *second*-worst adventure in Planescape - Dead Gods is still worse.

>>235301

>>235345

As someone who doesn't care for alignments in games, nothing bores me more than arguments against alignments in games.

So I'm trying to figure out just how big the Outlands are. Given that traveling between the parts of the land works in mysterious ways, I think I'll have to calculate this via time, not space.

Getting from one place to another takes 3d6 days. This is the travel between gate towns, but also between rings. The time you travel is random each time you go. Your first trip between Excelsior and Tradegate might take eight days with your return trip eighteen, while your second trip is ten days with a return of three. The Outlands has a day/night cycle, even if it is one without sun, moon and stars. Given that you arrive at best on the third day of the trip and at worst the eighteenth this means that there are seventeen days "in between" two locations, with the eighteenth being your destination. Which ones you visit are random every time. So I pose the following:

There are no "destinations" closer than three days to any destination.

However, this makes it interesting when you would consider that this would mean that you cannot build things closer than three days' worth of travel from, well, anything. If you were to do so and go back to where you left from you will take at least three days to get there, same when going back. So I pose this:

Not only can the locations you visit change, so will their order.

But this raises another interesting issue. You can travel past things without them being your destination. If you continue on to your initial destination even after stopping at a burg somewhere you'll still get to your destination within the 3d6 days timeframe. And unless they are within a single day of one another you cannot leave one location behind without also leaving the other. Next, the distance in the Outlands is determined by traveled time, not space. Horses in the Outlands are beasts of burden and meant to pull carts. You could give someone on a horse a head start of a day, travel to the same destination on foot and still arrive two weeks before the other person did. Horses are still useful in "local" areas and are used by bandits and such, but on the long haul you might as well walk.

But with the time based travel there needs to be some kind of breaking point where one place becomes another. Exactly how this works I have not yet figured out, and there are no reports of areas suddenly changing. This would mean that there are variants between the various in-between spaces between locations. But how many?

First you need the connection between your starting location and one of the seventeen (remember that your destination, the end point, is between #3 and #18). To that connects a second place, which is now picked from sixteen different destination. The third is picked from fifteen, plus your destination which is now allowed for sixteen. From there you go to fourteen, thirteen and so on. 17*16*16! is a grand total of 5.690.998.849.536.000, or 5.69 quadrillion number of different possibilities.

And that's just from one place to another within the same ring. Going through several rings (or through several "slices" of alignment when measuring travel around the circle) upps this number even more. Gate towns are on the outside of the ninth ring, with there being nine rings and the Spire and its direct surroundings. Adding eightteen places wheelward, times sixteen "slices" means a grand 18*10*18*16, or 51.840. Multiplying that by the above number gets you something in the ballpark of 295 quintillion possibilities. And that does not even factor in that the rings move or how the fuck diagonals would work.

That is a truly staggering number size to say the least. But the aforementioned 51.840 is the size of the number of "days" that the Outlands is big. There are just a fuckton of different possibilities for how they connect. This would mean that certain variations of the same location might be inhabited by people while other variations might not be. For example, if you build something on the day 8 located between day 11 and day 4 you'll be somewhere else than someone on day 8 located between day 11 and day 5.

I'll think more about this later, need sleep now.

>>237821

That gets even weirder if you travel on Elysium.

Not only does the geography change, but time and space bend depending on your morality. So if you're Good, you'll reach your destination in several hours. But if you're Evil, and if you're traveling down the same path, it can take you months to reach that place.

>>239185

Yeah, that too. Mount Celestia has you climb an endless mountain forever until you're ready to ascend, and Limbo is… well, it's fucking Limbo.

>>239494

Baator gets in on the action, too. But not in a mind-bending sense like the others.

Nope, what it does is create tourist guides that lead mortals down certain paths. See, hell isn't so bad - we mostly are fire and brimstone, but there's no torture in the open. We have amazing architecture you can visit. We're filled with statues celebrating our accomplishments. We're rich, cultured, efficient - all of that because we're LE. You should be LE too!

Wait, where are you going? STOP. DON'T LEAVE THE DESIGNATED TOURIST-CORRUPTION PATH. That's great, another idiot left the safe road and found the giant torture chambers hidden inside a house. Gotta deal with that shit.

Yes, Baator has tourist guides that lead you through entire towns and locations made to make you feel like this isn't such a bad place after all. Then you walk one step out of the tourist guide's path, and it's all Cenobites.

>>239538

I think I recall that the City of Dis had ever-changing roads and some imps would hire themselves out as tour guides. Naturally they're also trying to tempt the party and will not lie about that if asked about their motives.

>>239549

Dis also had an endless street where all the temples to the smaller LE deities were. The gods living there (since they couldn't make their own realms) had to pay rent to Dispater.

Also, if you appeared outside the city, you could always see Dispater's tower, regardless of where you are or which direction you'd turn. It's always there, looming on the horizon. And if you decide to go towards it, eventually you'd find yourself in the city without even noticing when you teleported inside it.

Dis is great.

>>228312

Malcanthet gave birth to Pazuzu's daughter, a succubus called Red Shroud. Who then gave birth to Fall-from-Grace. So yes, Grace is Malcanthet's and Pazuzu's granddaughter.

With all those planes Gehenna is relatively simple: it consists of four fuckhuge (but still limited in size) volcanoes floating around in an endless brown-reddish void. You'll want flying magic to go up and down lest you are forced to climb and will eventually fall because of the slopes, the lava, the natives or the ground just opening up and eating you because FUCK YOU.

>>239825

People don't really handle the law vs chaos side very well, in particular the "chaos" part. Only neutral and extreme law is ever handled well by the average person because true chaos is extremely difficult for the majority of people to grasp or accept.

It's why the Evil side of the evil alignments always take priority to their other aspect every time. (A Lawful Evil entity should be equally upset at your flagrant violations of the rules as a Lawful Neutral or Lawful Good entity but that never appears to be the case.)

>>239926

*woops accidentally left sage in the field

What's the status of Planescape community today?

It got discontinued because good things can't exist and since then, thank god, it was ignored. Yet people still play it. Is the player base dwindling?

>>241321

Planescape is a setting rather than a full-on game, making it somewhat easier to keep playing even when support has been discontinued.

In 3e they had the Manual of the Planes, which was something like Planescape light. Quite a few of the interesting things were cut from the game though including a lot of lore and quite a few monsters: the Rilmari got reduced to a three-monster entry in the Fiend Folio, and the Modrons were exiled to a web only supplement in favor of the Formians and the Inevitables.

4e fucked up the cosmos with the whole Points of Light thing, replacing the Great Wheel with the World Axis. Only a handful of the planes survive (Baator, Mount Celestia) but most of the others got fucked. Sigil is still around, being at the center of it all but with no Outlands in sight.

5e returned to form somewhat with a few minor changes to the setting, but the Outer Planes got mixed into this weird new.. thing that got rid of the Quasielemental Planes, merged the regular four planes and the Paraelemental planes into something resembling Creation from Exalted, with the Energy Planes floating around powers know where and the Feywild and Shadowfell (a mix of the Plane of Shadow and the Demiplane of Dread) being the closest to the Prime. And don't get me started on the Astral and the Ethereal.

>>241321

It's still active, but not as much as years ago.

You had sites like the Mimir, the Planewalker and so on, which were entire communities based on Planescape, expanding the lore, porting it into 3e and so on.

I miss some of those fags. You had some pretty delicious writefaggotry on those (as well as some WotC forums). I rather enjoyed a Planescape / Raveloft / Spelljammer story (Blade of Innocence) that was going on and never finished (before WotC decided to purge old threads).

>>241483

You go to Carceri if you are/do one of the following:

>A traitor of nations

>Give in to base lusts and desires

>Do not use your wealth to help those in need

>Harm others through your lies

>Refuse to help others when you could do so

>A traitor of friends and betrayer of secrets

If you fall under one of those categories, combined with a neutral/chaotic evil streak, you get to go to Carceri. It's very Divine Comedy down there, with especially those in the last layer being frozen in the ice just like Dante's ninth circle. The place is also called the Tarterian Depths, which makes sense because the Titans of Greek myth hang around in the place (but you'd be well adviced to stay away). But if you want to go laugh at people like Ixion or Tantalus you'll have to go to Pluton (which is a later name for Hades), the third layer of Hades, which houses Hades.

Meanwhile, you go to Baator if you're a LE fuck who thinks he can manipulate everyone around him to get into power, while CE people who take survival of the fittest to its extreme get to go to the Abyss.

>>241926

Asmodeus gets a lot of wank in Pathfinder as well, iirc. (And also is suddenly the god of misogyny for some reason) I think it's mostly the attempt to have a Big Bad Evil Guy for the entire setting.

Tharizdun is generally referred to really vaguely in all D&D fluff from what I've seen.

>>241926

The heads of Demogorgon are trying to kick each other's asses as well so that one can take over. This happening is generally seen as a Bad Thing, but not as bad as them cooperating 100% to get shit done.

>>241931

It's because in Pathfinder he's the god of tradition as well. So being a traditional god, he also hates women, mistreats his children Mephistopheles and crew, and is overall a petty asshole.

Seriously, fuck Pathfinder lore with a rusty barbed wire.

>>241935

I always liked the lore around Demogorgon as being something fundamentally broken.

The tl;dr version is that, when the first mortal souls ended up in the Abyss, the Obyriths didn't have a clue what to do with them. The Obyriths were just that alien, they didn't understand concepts such as lust, anger, envy and so on. Meanwhile, the sinful souls became the first Tanar'ri - the first four lustful souls became the Succubi Queens (Malcanthet, Shami, and the other two), and so on. Each mortal sin became manifested in the Abyss somehow.

So the Obyriths, unsure what to do, decide to experiment on them. Improve on them. They're an entire race of alien scientists with PhD in EVIL. They warp the first mortal souls into something else (maybe with the help of the Baernaloths). They make them deadlier, meaner, more hateful.

Until eventually, they decide to gather all the things mortals fear into one place, and see what comes out. Every primal fear - fear of wild animals, of the dark, of other people, of being eaten alive or buried alive - is put together into one being.

Demogorgon.

The manifestation of every fear ever. The future Demon Prince. And the thing comes out broken. Its shape is a constant twirling mess of muscle, teeth and fur, constantly changing shapes. His touch dissolves flesh. His eyes are those of a cunning predator, and always seem to know what you're thinking. He appears out of nowhere, he's untouchable, and he's utterly mad. There's nothing scarier than knowing that somewhere out there is an invincible machine of destruction that wants nothing than to tear you limb from limb. You know how, when you go out into the field and then suddenly a thunderstorm starts, and you're somewhere deep down afraid that a lightning bolt might hit you? Demogorgon is the manifestation of that fear.

And it is broken. It's the dark reflection of everything we hold dear - of safety, of sanity, of civilization, all things that make us feel safe. That's why Demogorgon is so terrifying and powerful. The closest thing to a manifestation of Chaotic Evil there is.

Now imagine if that thing stopped being broken. That right there? That's the scariest shit.

>>241926

>Tharizdun

He also got smeared with the bullshit brush.

Earlier, he was a Lovecraftian entity, something alien and maddening, similar to Yog-Sothoth and crew. Gygax's answer to Cthulhu. The embodiment of the heat death of the universe - something that will inevitably happen, the slow decay, the inevitable end. The thing that would set the multiverse free and then wait until its reshaped again - which, you'll notice, is what Shiva does in Planescape nowadays.

Then he became your standard evil god whose only domain is madness and destruction. But apparently he's still so OP (somehow, alluding to his status as something bigger than a deity) to the point that his imprisoned form in another reality still counts as a god (with 11 ranks in Divinity - Zeus is around 17, for comparison's sake). He was also something that all the gods and powers had to unite to fight against - again alluding to the fact that he's not just a god.

Now he's the mad god, the thing that only exists to smash the multiverse because evil aliens from another universe corrupted his mind. He made the Abyss, Asmodeus was the guy who safeguarded his jail, and everything he touches he corrupts. So while Asmodeus took the center stage as the BBEG (because every setting needs a BBEG, right?) Tharizdun is the BBEG that was defeated long ago.

On one hand, I'm kinda sad they didn't expand more on him. On the other, considering how they handled him, I'm glad they didn't expand more on him.

>>241955

Dagon, and the fucking Mist are significant players in it and that the mist is not only referred to as the mother of all demons but is the one in control of all things pseudonatural, which then boasts it's connection to the far realm (Which is outer space fucked up by the planes system because of the deities or primordials merely existing, or something to that effect) and everything the place collectively keeps out.

>>241950

The awful part about pathfinder is that there's a hint in lore that seems to indicate that the Aboleth's actually have a running portal that tunnels to the D&D settings, think half-life combine style.

Which is also the funny part, because D&D is like occuring in the subconcious of Azathoth or it at least keeps Yog-sothoth out, meaning in some pseudoreality sense they might not all die when the old ones return because they go right over their all knowing super 1st place evolution+ existences.

However, it seems that Abyssal demons, mist and dagon included Aboleth's, Illithid, alienists (Post 3e made them psions which sort of kills off the whole "sorcerors are the only ones good at keeping the yog-soggies out" and wizards keep letting them in, theme that runs in fiction and now fucking warlocks that are MAKING PACTS WITH GREAT ONES IN THE FETAL STAGE, THINKING THEM TO BE STARS, and possibly worms that walk (Despite their origins, they stil relate to the cult of Hastur and his workings by mere existence alone), Thoon (DnD version of Half-life's combine, like literally, that's everything they point towards with maybe some all consuming A.I thing as a little cherry on top) all seem to be candidates for fucking the whole thing up.

Beholder's are too funny and stupid to succeed with ruining the everything of everything ever, though the events of the 4e Comic prove that the occasional loner may be a threat to all that is.

And I'm 99% Flumphs are basically cosmic Cthulian smurfs who are scholars and travellers who have suffered the brunt of everything that Lovecraft and all his little inspiried creations have ever had to throw at them, only to keep on chuggin till they made it to D&D and got all protective of everyone because they love us or something really touching.

Flumph's are like Yithans, if Yithans were the kindest race in the universe and wern't all "Take solace in the fact that we will replace you, and no ammount of charitable action or asisstance will save you from that faggot physically dead ocotopus pedophile preist under the sea."

>>241955

In a weird way, they kinda are. Ascension for most outsiders is basically them and their realm becoming inseparable - the realm reflects the ruler, while he is shaped by the shit going on around him. So Demogorgon's realm is split in two between a vicious jungle and a deep sea (both filled with monsters), Pazuzu flies over other people's skies claiming how they're his (while his real realm is a labyrinth made of chains suspended in air) and so on. The closer you get to what your home-plane represents, the weirder and distant (and more powerful) you become.

And if you look at the few old extraplanar races, you get the impression that all of them have tried (and to a degree, succeeded) in pulling of some CHIM shit. The ancient Baatorians stopped needing physical bodies, and became thoughts that float around and pull off some Lovecraftian shit. The Baerns were obsessed with the concept of Evil, and essentially drove themselves into self-exile and madness (just like Gehenna does to people). The predecessors of the Eladrin were obsessed with music and poetry, and literally wrote themselves out of existence.

>>241966

Wait, I thought Demogogron flew around in some bizzare flying UFO spaceship fortress prison like the bizarre congo LSD inspirired nightmare he is.

I mean, him in a UFO makes sense.

Ah, here's that neverwinter fight.

Also

>Illithid that sounds like the Playstation 1 Mysterio

I swear to god, this game would have been more interesting if not for the godawful voice actors, just play it and listen to the fucking Dragonborn NPCs, it's hilarious, nevermind right at the start we see a fucking soldier charge Vagina Shadowmantle and get his ass punded in by Beeffat poundflesh Mchardcheese.

It's even more bizzare that they dump in Thoon Illithid operating from their own hive, because they didn't pay attention to how Thoon works.

Also

Orcus fights like the fucking 1st demon you face in demons souls, little tiny wings doing the assquake and everything, he's so hilarious.

I think the fucking quest where you find a place for a Lice's Phylactery is the funniest though, holy shit, that ending.

>>241983

>the Abyss invades Spelljammer

I want this. I want this so bad.

How do the Astral and the Ethereal connect with everything in 5e, anyway? I get that the Inner Planes are connected in certain locations where their elements are strong and I've got a fair idea as to how the Feywild and Shadowfell work, but how the Astral and Ethereal factor in?

For that matter, what about the Positive and Negative energy planes?

>>243791

>>243791

Shar merged it to make Generic Anti-world evil version Silent-hill "other-world" "bad future" called the Shadowfell.

Also, recently read up on Vestiges

>MFW I got tot the key to the gate vestige.

They're literally teasing all my theories, it's not even a joke anymore.

>>241956

Flumphs might just be Lovecraftian monstrosities that happen to have no special powers and be on the bottom of the heap.

>>241953

A lot of 4e lore is meant to be subjective, in-setting ancient legends or otherwise an attempt by mortals to comprehend what they probably can't that happened looong ago in prehistory, and written by the winners at that. At least at the start, they pretty much lost track of that immediately for the typical 'Fluff is literally gospel' approach. Ah well.

>>243963

In short: Yes. Wherever there's a pattern, no matter how complex, there will always be those who seek to understand it; but that revelation may come at a price.

This comes with the realisation that it is possible to generalise the mathematical model whilst keeping the basic ideas of (i) being able to locate a point via the values of a set of real numbers; and (ii) being able to describe the dynamical evolution of a system using differential equations. This is already well emphasised in all schools that teach the fundamentals of theoretical planar mechanics.

It is a matter of some philosophical and physical doubt whether such a use of real numbers is totally meaningful: the construction of the real numbers from the rationals is quite an abstract operation, and many wizards would be happy with the idea that employing real numbers in this way is an idealisation that might at some future time be replaced with a different picture of the world. Those clerics and scholars of The Sphere of Numbers however are convinced that such relationships between numbers represent the "core truths" of reality or the "secrets of the universe". By studying numbers and their relationships, these scholars believe they can learn truths otherwise inaccessible; by manipulating numbers, they believe they can actually alter the fabric of reality.

However, not withstanding such caveats, it remains the case that the Far Realms resists the more tried and true methods of arcane workings. The Far Realms are too aberrant, lacking in essential, definitive qualities to define it: It should have no structure other than what it contains, yet we know that is not the case. So the question arises naturally, therefore, as to what other mathematical structure should be imposed onto it. In practice, the idea has arisen that, at the very least, it should also be a topological space whose open sets represent certain privileged regions in the space-time.

>>243828

>Shar merged it to make Generic Anti-world evil version Silent-hill "other-world" "bad future" called the Shadowfell.

So the Negative Energy Plane is sorta like the deep Shadowfell, which in turn is a mix of Ravenloft and the Plane of Shadow as part of a reflection of the Material?

I guess the same can apply to the Feywild and the Positive, but what about the Astral and the Ethereal?

>>244051

>>244051

I think the old negative energy plane used to be "inside a black hole lite edition" in that it was just a black space with 10,0000 negawatts of negative energytricity and lots of screaming primordial undead that survived countless univerrsal resets, annualments and retcons.

And sea bears, the only organisms known to survive in the vaccuum of space.

Black lighning with white to outline it kind of place, unless you're undead or equipped then it basically kills on entry and contact and even still it might weaken you and slowly kill you.

>>243963

When in doubt, go with Rule of Three™

>>244069

And of course, whatever get's dumped there or built there by outside forces I think.

I never liked the Points of Light's/World Axis' effects on the D&D lore, so I've ignored them or pondered methods of reconciling them to fit Planescape, because nuts to your crappy retcons, Wizards! Granted, these are interpretations of mad ramblings and loose notes I came up with during the 4E era. But, they probably fit 5E as well.

The Fey Wild felt like an interesting concept, but I got more mileage out of NWoD Changeling, myself. The Fey Wild would be broken between the Chaotic planes as either demiplanes (in the case of the courts) or the Outer Planes (in the case of general faerie weirdness, especially Ysgard, Arborea, Pandemonium, maybe Abyss). The only major portal links in these areas would be via leylines typically accessed by the fey/fey magic. Otherwise, I'd keep the fey as a part of the Prime Material as well. All that said, 3rd Edition had a Demiplane of Faerie, so not much need for too much change there. Perhaps a hub that floats outside of the chaotic planes could be a good meeting point for the fey. I've envisioned the hub as a sprawling Goblin Market, surrounded by strange forests and makeshift territories made by Fey Lords. I could imagine the Sensates trying to barge into the Hub to see what's it's like, maybe the Signers and even the Takers in this case.

Shadowfell felt like a poor man's attempt at doing Spooky D&D, but had some neat concepts. I rearranged Gloomwrought as a demiplane with connections to Deep Ethereal and Negative Energy, even Hades (Grey Wastes). By injecting a bit of Sharn and the lower planes Gate Towns, I made for a sinister city that brought the threat of the places it connected to. I'd also consider retooling it as a one-way cheat to The Mists/Demiplane of Dread, with no way out. All in all, a good crash pad for the Bleakers and the Dusties; possibly Sinkers too. Everything else could easily be divided between Negative, Shadow and Ravenloft. Moil could easily be its own realm again, while Nightwyrm Fortress could hang on Negative as part of Orcus' plans a la Dead Gods (not a Planescape module I enjoyed either, tbh). Most of the newer Domains of Dread seem too hollow for RL, but a couple could fit with some tinkering (such as Timbergorge, rewriting the plot with the werewolves and erasing fey wild influence.)

The Elemental Chicken Soup, errr, Chaos always puzzled me. I secluded it off as an experiment done by Elemental Deities gone horribly wrong, using it as a dark conspiracy that Elemental worshipers don't like to talk about. That worked fine enough. Plus, gives the Athar some ammo to expose more deific secrets and fraud in the multiverse. The Godsmen would probably see this well of raw energy as a means of ascension.

As for the Far Realm? I dun fecking know! I'd probably play up ambiguity and vagueness surrounding the domain itself, a la Firestorm Peaks. I'd play up the alien morality and surrealism over the spooky edgy evil stuff later eds seemed to have pushed. All in all, its own Demiplane that doesn't hold too much sway over the Great Wheel, just weird leaks in the planar cracks. The Chaosmen would probably get their rocks off the few bits of weirdness that slip from the Far Realm.

Anyway, sorry for my rambling. Mostly created this as a means of expanding Planescape content for those who want to use newer content without it altering the feeling of Planescape too much.

>>241989

>>the Abyss invades Spelljammer

>I want this. I want this so bad.

See also: Astromundi Cluster. =)

>Meanwhile at the Tower of the Arcanaloths,

>an academic conference was being held.

"Of divinatory sorcery, it is a fundamental principle of the philosophy of science that the solutions of problems do not spring fully formed into the Universe, i.e., as initial data, but emerge only through evolutionary or rational processes. In adopting this evolutionary principle, we reject such antirational doctrines as creationism," he paused as snickering was heard in the room. (No one seriously believed that the spheres weren't made by the gods.) "–and more generally we reject all explanations of complex regularity in the observed Universe that attribute it to complex regularity in the initial data. That one rules out certain logically and empirically possible initial data for philosophical reasons is in no way paradoxical or improper when regarding the existence of Powerful Beings – self-proclaimed gods, goddesses, and demi-gods. We do precisely that for the initial data for the spontaneous formation of a demiplane, even though any number of models consistent with observation but violating the evolutionary principle can be constructed."

"What of the demiplane of Shadow?" heckled someone in the crowd.

Who was it? Who would interrupt his talk?! This was HIS moment to shine! HE WAS GOING TO FEEL LIKE A PRINCESS! He was NOT going to be interrupted today! Oh, this better not be that that arrogant fuck, Azelth from data entry. Oh, it was.

"Yes, that's a perfect example," He said, recovering from the brief pause. "Sages speculate that it might become the newest inner plane in the centuries to come. As it's been discussed earlier, when significant amounts of a specific proto-matter have amassed, it acquires physical and magical properties of its own and becomes a demiplane."

"Yeah, so I'm asking about the Shadowlands, mind answering that?"

"I was just getting to that," he assured, screaming inside. "Shadowstuff, the very essence of the demiplane of Shadow, is derived from intermingling forces constantly pouring forth from two great vortices connected to the Energy Planes. It is a 'semi-element' created by the combination of equal parts of energy from the Positive and Negative Energy Planes."

"And how do outpours of intermingling fources manifest there?"

"You just might find out if you kindly shut the fuck up," he thought but left unsaid. As far as these events went, they usually ended in a riot and arson. So far so good. "Fixed in the sky high above the demiplane of Shadow, these two vortices appear as huge spheres of identical size. One sphere, blazing forth with blinding white light, is the vortex to the Positive Energy Plane. The other sphere, oozing out thick, inky darkness, is the vortex to the Negative Energy Plane. The spheres are nearly impossible to see from within the demiplane, due to the rolling thick shadow-clouds that always blanket the sky. Most visitors to the demiplane are unaware of the existence of these vortices."

"A bit like how you've been unaware that it was me this whole time who's been stealing your lunch from the breakroom," replied Azelth.

"YOU SON OF A BATTEZU WHORESMITH!"

And then the room was on fire.

>>213484

>So for example, the Plane of Fire … sure it's a infinite plane made out of fire, but it's also the home of all of the fire elemental beings that come from there,

>The Efreeti Empire has a capital city (the City of Brass),

Also, all the Azer clans.

>>245128

>>245247

I want you to stop bumping the thread. It can stay up for months without problem.

Come on, share some storytime.

>>247530

Any particular storytime you want?

>>247547

Anything works.

>>247549

Alright then. It's called "The Ugly Yugoloth."

Once, there was an ugly Yugoloth. He was so ugly that everyone died. The end.

You use the words Planescape and Storytime in the same sentence too many times and you'll probably get "Shemeska" to show up. Real talk, Stewart's work ain't bad, but man did he think oh so high of himself whenever Planescape was brought up. At the very least "Shemmy's story hour" wasn't a bad read. That and he would probably do a better job than the folks at WizBro when it comes to cosmology/planar stuff, but I don't care to stroke his ego.

>>248352

> Shemeska

> Shemeska

> Shemeska

I'm running a Planescape game right now, the campaign being an adaptation of the Rod of Seven Parts with mostly original locations/encounters. So far the party's been to an ancient, underwater marid city, a layer of the Abyss named for the hurricane of blood at the center. They've pursued a thief through several portals on the streets of Sigil, before finally culminating in a naval chase in the oceanic layer of Arborea that eventually shifted to the Astral Plane and the corpse of Iyachtu Xvim. They adventured through a weirdly distorted copy of a Prime Material City in Limbo, duelled the chief of a barbarian horde on Acheron while another cube fast approached from above to smash them all into pieces, among other adventures.

>>248542

See this?

This is how you do Planescape.

Guys,

Hey guys.

How do I defeat Lady Pain?

>>251397

As someone who'se been going over a bunch of lore, I consider it utterly canon at point that ever since 1e and like issue 5 of dragon magizine, they've been conceptually butthurt about not getting the Cthulhu mythos for free and have made every attempt to "Quote-on-quote things into their setting that are placeholders for Outer gods and Great old ones.

They even outright say that the Illithid were a third creation of the elder things that partook in the Shoggoth rebellion as Ulillithids amogst hints at the fact that a particular vestiage was placed into the vestigal realm by other forces, everything about the far realm, then the danming piece of evidence about the Aboleth "gods" and all that, then there's the Pale night and Dagon mantling these outside forces, and the statement that the entire original collective purpose of the Abyss was to unravell the alignment system which actively prevented H.P grade bullshit from happening in the planes by resotring the universe to a free-Ammoral place with no ryme or reason.

So basically, the Abyss is actually a lot more dangerous than just a place where 3 massive homo's fight it out constantly, and private a estate manlet minotaur plays maze manager-tm and where Jublix and Zutmogiganig do fuck all except for revel in their own stagnant bygone nostalgiafag hubris, and where two can and will unravel all of reality merely by existing, and where a shockign combination of everything gay about gargoyles characters with everything gay about Falco from Star fox is combined into a subversive flying homosexual who will do anything to take your purity.

The reason why it got where it was today is solely because the obryinths were basically regugitated dead Yithans and Elder things spliced into one, thus they mad scientisted the abyss into a Tannari ghetto by deciding it would be a godd idea to see what happened when petitioners were allowed to scale the gentic ladder.

>>251405

So basically, things in D&D go like this:

>1e = Christian mythos and H.P lovecraft

>Systematically cucked out of Christian connections and Lovecraftian connections by both Christfags and Call of Cthulhufags

But the fragmented story goes like this:

H.P lovecraft shit came first as always

>On Yog-sothoth's wonderful network of Free rides for sex, in furture fictional products, anythign that denies the primary statements Yog-sothoth makes cannot exist under universal law (These statements are I AM THE GATE, I AM THE BEST CHARACTER ON THE SHOW)

>These places do exist, and are essentially, "sealed" or cut off from Yog-sothoth GPS

>Only Nyralathotep is aware of this, and being the cosmic cunt he is, seeks to undo it, because NO ONE FUCKING ESCAPES THE HAPPENING

>Does everything in it's power to get in, often using the high priest as a proxy to undo universes meming out the "gate's" existence by undoing the Stac koverflow errors the universe is memeing to stay out of Azathoth's "will surely cease to be when I wake up" conciousness

Flash forward to D&D,

>Matieral plane, or just basically planets, space and stuff

>Shit goes down

>What can only be assumed as literally the entire plot of Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne Fight YHWH with Lucifer goes down

>Assman sole survivor, war veteran, that nasty stuff with the gods occurs

>it is unknow whether this occurs before or after this universe equivalent of a big bang, but such an event goes down, and we get the Planes (and subsequently allignment system) as it is known in all future editions, with minor changes here and there.

>It is suspected, (as Vecna Proved by making 3.5) that the Planes and all that is under them can and will experience the same shit in the Elder Scrolls universes where universal errors are rewritten to keep things running

Anyhow, two main problems for H.P code of operational conduct:

Far Realm, and the astral plane, and most forms of planar travel which utterly erases the idea of "space is a Vaccuum with no air or heat removing the whole so superior we're born in places where nothing normal can be born thing.

Also, Far realm fragments the shit out of anything that goes through it, Ayy lmao's sent in come out processed with stats and various categorizations that utterly destroy their M.O, sense of self and freewill

Divine magic = Remember how OGs and GOOs are law unto themselves and magic simply uses their being bodies etc in someway because of how signifcant they are and some bits of science here and there? This system cucks them out of that right, IF they were to try an enter such places, and with the far realm and allignment system to boot it's something of a "nigga that shit foul" for them.

>>251406

Uhh, so basically all Elder Evil stuff is Yog Sothery stuff trying to wedge themselves into the DnD universe.

And that in itself is a meta comment on how Dnd can't won't use actual Lovecraftian Old Gods?

Is this guy right /tg/, or did he read too deep into the lore?

>>251455

>And that in itself is a meta comment on how Dnd can't won't use actual Lovecraftian Old Gods?

Funny enough, because 1e actually had Cthulhu and pals around.

Tharizdun was the cosmic principle of entropy and the Heat Death given divine form. He was Azathoth awakening. The shit that the Chaos Gods fear.

Then they decided to throw that shit out, and turned him into a generic evil mad god.

>>251389

Do what Vecna did. Find your way into Sigil and rewrite the universe so that you are top dog.

>>251521

Yeah, It's hard to tell if Aboleth's or the Abyss came first Chronologically, but essentially, Aboleth's are the paragon form matierial plane sealife born from the workings of Shub-niggurath, (blood mother) though other subsequent fantasy setting have had them act as residents of Ry'leh as Caretakers of a sort, interacting with Star Spawn of Cthulhu, Deep Ones and Dagon by extension, with the addition of those lesser Cthulhu things made by One of Cthulhu's relatives which are smaller versions of the guy.

I think they mainly looked after Cthylla though, but they also had similar duties to Dagon and the education of those under Ry'leh due to the fact that Aboleths have probably, the greatest racial assest ever, of fucking Genetic racial memory which allows them to recall pretty much everything ever.

Unfortunately in their case, if one experiences one too many pitfalls, or rather drops in number, such information can become incredibly hard to recover, becoming more and more fragmented over time, so a good degree of important Aboleth History ends up being sent to the back of the fridge/beneath the couch in their own heads. If I recall, they had an elder who literally has a Tunnel tier gatway of some sort which leads "somewhere else" which is guards or watches over, possibly to the Pathfinder universe or even Ry'leh.

What went wrong primarily for their species is of course, the loss of slaves and servitors whom fled for the surface worlds thanks to the generation of Divine magic and the like causing the creation of gods in response to the desires and wishes of concious thought kicking off the shaping of the setting as it is today, blowing everything off course, with the addition of gettign hunted down or attacked by new species that popped up, Deities putting fucking Trademark on everything under the sun despite being as dimwitted as rugrats (A fact clearly proven by the fact that the concept of deception, and punishment and very simple things were belived to be created by them but they "discovered" it in in that silly child way, thought they came up with it and disinfoed the rest of the planes into this silly train of thought.) which then resulted in some of their own goign rogue and loosing even more of their kind to irrelevant lesser species bullshit and so on.

>>251521

The Illthid though are an utter clusterfuck, because a large number of their fuckups can be attributed to the fact that they have a number of hilarious inherant flaws which fuck them over as a group which they never seem to account for:

These include:

>Silly enough to not account for the implications of blotting out the fucking sun

>At birth, are born both mentally and emotionally unstable and have to be drugged to high hell and back with psionic items and fucking protein suppelments and bunch of other crap which seems to hilariously resonate with mankinds amusing long-term replacement of Natural to artificial vitamin products

>Even more amusing considering the idea they were both born in an elder things petri dish and were involved in the upheval of their empire in some way

>Don't notice that the idea of running their entire society with a reproduction system that leaves behind small behavioural quirks of their selected hosts would eventually errode their soceities over time

Suddenly, being stuck in the underdark makes sense when your diet consists of hilariously backwards Drow most of the time

>Illithid can only feel emotional extremes all the time, and their entire composure is built on controlling this clearly unhealthy way of existing, through external methods which are emotional stones, drugs, and the the Elder brain sending out literal bineural beats to keep things in order.

In other words, I want you to imagine every single evil associated emotion at it's very peak, and I want you to drug that to being "acceptable withing a structured society" and then, I want you to imagine a race of people like this all the time.

Did I forget to mention these guys are born from inserting their natural bodies into suitable hosts who eat brain matter as to awaken to sentince in the first place?

These guys are more damaged then readings on a kid who'se been violently circumcised by hand AND Vaccinated, and suddenly, with this in perspective, you get why Mind blast is an innate abiltiy for these creatures, they're basically projecting utter irreversible violent changes in brain chemistry by force into your head, scrabling it in the process preducing you to a babling mess of utter incoherant babble and nerverous spasms.

>>251537

Then, if not to top all this crazy shit off, is the Fucking Elder brain, which for one, is a liar, only it get's to live forever, and it just takes the information from the brains offered unto it, and the fact that it is the irreplacable data center of the entire Illithid community.

So basically, a setback by losing one of these is the same as a harddisk drive crash without backup, the user is fucked, nevermind that the psychic feedback of the death of one of these things drives it's people dead or insane.

Then there's the fucking god that showed up out of nowhere, and is basically Yog-Sothoth Knows all sees all is all lite edition which is supposed to know everything, yet somehow the Illithid are still setback so far into the past that they forgot they has sci-fi UFOs and literally conquer the planes tier equipment as the Illithad showed and their "scientists" are the D&D version of Admech at best.

Oh right, and don't forget the hilarious goal of always trying to get free brains, like holy fuck, they will do everything they can to get this no matter how crude and poorly thought out the method is, they once came across a fucking space satation in 4e where they were frequent traders with possibly Greys (yes Greys) and other abberations and found a fucking cloning facility.

And what did the genius Illithid intelligence decree?

>Eat them

>Use and possibly waste the equipment for the planes's dumbest nefarious scheme ever

>Reverse engineer the tech and actually learn something the Elder brain wouldn't "correct" or shun it's lesser for

>Figure out a greater understanding of technology that might put aside the ideas of sorcery and mysticist bullshit for psionic superiority and possibly link our great species back to it's golden age that worked primarily because we reveered ourselves as the paragon of all that is through our proven devoted efforts to higher causes?

The answear is: Prooced to eat them, not like it because their clones with no memories, then proceed to start up literally, Invasion of the body snatchers plan where they use the facility to replace earth leaders with the programmed clones to try and take over the matieral planre, despite the fact that intel on the surface is little to nothing despite the long stay underground, and that there are like 10 or more anti abberation crusades and organisations (and the giths) out to kill their kidns and abberation wherever, instead of prize this technology for the marvel and boon it is to the species engineering it into a matrix system, possibly upgrading that shitty interrogation device that takes 10 minutes to get a answear from an extracted brain like it's running on a fucking Dial-up connection

>>251541

I think their main issue though lies in their reproduction because Cerebromorphis is something that clearly needs to be done with care.

Essentially, rather than eat the brain in portions, the tadpole needs to merge or otherwise consume the brain whole without nervous stimulation to cause the host to violently spasm or experience irrevoacble trauma which would affect the Illithid post gestation and metamorphisis personality-wise.

It's shocking how they never thought to link the Illithid Savant class they introduced with this, I mean it's literally a Class that turns it's user into an Illithid Race-traitor Weeb. Oh right, irrational Illithid fear of that one type of Illithid born with it's self intact will from cerebromorphis that they belove would be the end of their kind (more like the Elder brains stagnant echo-chamber like rule over everything)

>>251550

I remember some old fluff theory that the Ilithids (especially some of their gods) are heavily connected with the ancient Baatorians.

What we know of the ancient Baatorians is that a) they transcended the need for physical forms, b) they were using psionics more than anything else, c) they underwent several metamorphosis which all involved becoming a tentacled abomination over time, and d) all traces of them disappeared when Asmodeus and his pals arrived in Hell, and around the same time the Illithids showed up from out of nowhere.

Some of those fit pretty well with the Ilithid deities, especially with Ilsenine (sic) who's LE, focuses on psionics and other shit.

>>251564

Dunno about that. I think that the Illithid just haven't been created yet in this timeline and still have to surface.

I do know however that the Ancient Baatorians are spooky motherfuckers that you stould stay far away from.

the thing that interests me the most is

A: the farthest extremes of the planes there are, like the oldest layer of gehenna, the void in carceri, the bottom of acheron, etc.

and B: what kind of badass you would need to be to get there

>>251389

Be the GM

>>251397

They fucking statted-out the Lady of Pain in 4e?

Those IDIOTS

>>251714

>>251751

It was?

Well you have no idea how happy I am to hear that.

>>251751

could you romance the lady of pain?

>>251773

>Not becoming the most famous rogue in the planes by stealing her panties

Inb4 no pan

>>251799

if you're level 15, its not like she could do anything about it. after all, you can't cast a shadow on yourself.

>>251626

Well, if you wanna go with some fan theories, then Baalphegor (Mephisto's consort) is an ancient Baatorian. And the sole reason why Mephistopheles wasn't punished for his insolence all this time.

Then there're the buried towns in Cania and Malbolge, the things on Avernus that Nuppers turn into, and other scary shit. Though the scariest is the implication that the Baatorians became psychic entities, without any need for bodies. Zargon? Yeah, that's Asmodeus' propaganda about him being the King of Hell. There are others like him, frozen deep under Cania's ice.

Also, there's the cool idea that Lucifer actually was the previous king of Hell, before Asmodeus came by. But both Asmodeus and Lucifer were avatars of the Serpent, so basically the Serpent tricked everyone and abused the fuck out of a loophole in his curse. He can't leave the Nine Hells, Asmodeus can't leave the Nine Hells, but Lucifer was exiled, which means that the Serpent actually managed to get a part of itself out.

Be afraid.

>>251804

Well, Mephistopheles Hellfire project has led him to a froken city with a total of 4 artefacts he needs to get things up and running.

Something tells me that Hellfire really isn't so much of his discovery as much of it is his invention.

I mean, the stuff runs on life force.

>>251806

Hellfire was always there.

The frost of Cania was there to keep it trapped. Mephisto just managed to tap into it, and invent (well, Baalphegor did, according to FC2 she's in charge of Hellfire research) ways to channel it.

Think about it. Cania's frost isn't physical cold, but a manifestation of Evil. Evil so deathly cold that, if you were to recreate it in normal condition, the air around you would be solid. And hellfire melts it. Whatever it is, it's ancient and is not to be fucked with.

Lady Pain anon here.

What if I got a group of a hundred thousand people in the Outlands to worship Lady Pain?

>>251861

Where could one read more about Mok'sylk? Google gives no results.

>>251850

Usually anyone that tries that get's flayed or mazed, or a personal visit telling them to fuck off.

Guess it's because deities require faith to operate, and she can already insta-kill them as a physical entity, so the possiblity of that kind of reverance would be bad for her and her questionable work ethic.

Or, you know, all Tsun and no dere.

>>213405

On the contrary, Sigil is the perfect city to run a campaign in, being a dumping ground for the planes, anything is possible. I never felt more liberated and free to let my imagination loose than I did when my campaign ended up in Sigil. Its a place where the fantasy conventions that we all love (yet can constrain things on occasion) can be set aside easily and you can just go nuts as a matter of course, without resorting to hamfisted conceit.

>>251870

*Mok'slyk, sorry.

http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Mok%27slyk

Unless you can dig up an old comic your best bet would be to go find Die Vecna Die!. That book's all about Vecna's relationship with the Serpent.

Where does The Nameless One wake up after giving in to his fate? It looks like The Gray Wastes, but which layer is it? Looks like Oinos, but since TNO wakes up on a mountain, it could be Pluton. Doesn't look like it, though. The big… thing in the background in the last scene of the game looks like a tree, which means it could be Nilfheim.

>>251539

The desperation for a food source that doesn't fight back is understandable, mind, given they are absolutely required to kill sentient beings to survive and reproduce.

All this considered, Illithids are probably the most fundamentally, amazingly fucked up and inherently insane race in D&D, and possibly even crazier than what Lovecraft could come up with. It's also amazing they survive that long, given everyone has good reason to kill them.

>>252148

Avernus.

He ends up in Hell.

what are demiplanes? is there any difference between pocket dimension and demiplane? can i have multilayered demiplane?

>>252210

Demiplanes are small planes, very often quite finite in size. Most of them are artificial, created by a powerful spellcaster who wants some peace and quiet. Others are akin to vaults, prisons, experimentation grounds and other such things. They are typically flat surfaces, but some of them are spheres and other unusual shapes.

The most famous of the Demiplanes is the Demiplane of Dread, also known as Ravenloft. It's where the titular setting takes place. Another one is essentially an intelligent floating mass of skin and organs, hungry for knowledge. It sometimes devours travelers to learn from them: if the plane does not learn enough it devours its guests. A third is the prison of Tharizdun, which can cause madness just by being looked at.

Then there are the Mazes. These are created by the Lady of Pain to punish people in Sigil who really pissed her off. Only a handful of people ever escaped from them. You can enter these Mazes from the outside just fine, but you're not getting out the same way you got in.

Pocket dimensions are smaller dimensions created in a higher one, like with the Portable Holes and such. Some people theorize that the dimension these places are on links all such pocket dimensions together, allowing you to travel between them, but nobody's ever done this.

As for the multilayered demiplane… I don't think so.

hey /tg/, I was doing some speculation and I wanted your input:

what would happen if all non-human males in the planescape universe died? agendered beings obviously aren't affected, but beings that don't have to breed but still have genders (like demons) are

>>252447

>what would happen if all non-human males in the planescape universe died

Hoo boy. Let's start with the most obvious one: the Baatezu. For starters, Asmodeus is dead. So is Ahriman. And a lot of the archdukes: Bel, Dispater, Mammon, Belial, Levistus, Baalzebul and Mephistopheles are out as well. This makes Glasya and Fierna the only survivors. The great scheming for the thrones begins. It's possible that the duo frees Zariel and makes her Lord of the First again. Mephistopheles's waifu Baalphegor has a good shot at becoming Lord of the Eight. Armies will need to be restructured, but the Devils can rebuild.

On the other side of the Lower Planes, the Demons are thrown into a massive war. Demogorgon, the Prince of Demons, is dead. So are his chief rivals Graz'zt and Orcus. Now all the remaining female and genderless demon lords fight for the title. I can see Malcanthet coming out on top, becoming the first female Prince of Demons (prince in this context being from the word "princeps" and is not a gendered title). Zuggtmoy and Jubilex are too busy fighting each other to make a grasp for the title. It's unclear if Pale Night would make a grab for the title. Same goes for the Queen of Chaos: does she keep moping on her layer, or does she go apeshit from losing her beloved husbando and becomes the ruler of the Abyss once more? Pazuzu is either dead or saw it coming and turned himself female/genderless, surviving the whole ordeal.

On the other side of things, half the members of Talsid and the Five Companions, including their namesake, are now dead and have to be replaced. On the more Lawful side of things Pistis Sophia is the only surviving member of the Celestial Hebdomad, making her the new de facto leader of Mount Celestia. On the other end of the Upper Planes Queen Morwel has lost her beloved husbando. She'll turn mad with grief and being bereft of her bisexual threesomes, leading another attack into the Abyss.

Meanwhile, Sigil will be thrown into chaos. Trading grinds to a halt, the poor will suffer, houses of leasable affection will go out of business and the Factions will descend into conflict with themselves and one another.

>>252533

but when does the snu-snu begin?

>>252547

Hm. Out of grief Morwel might fuck the tits off of her wyfu, who misses Faerinaal as much as the queen does.

Glasya and Fierna are BFFsies, but I'm not ruling out some hardcore lesbian sex. Fierna has experience fucking her dad, so I can see her fucking her overlord.

Malcanthet just keeps femdomming everyone like she usually does, but at least she stops getting knocked up with unspeakable horrors.

Guardinials tend to be too lazy or too busy doing good to get laid a lot, but if they do it's quite yiffy. Archons don't have a lot of sex, and Pistis Sophia's shtick is casting off your desires which is why she runs around naked.

The Lillend are an interesting case. Biologically they're all female, including the ones with the male torsos who form a minority amongst the Lillend. If they perished anyway their population has not been impacted too much. In case you don't know, Lillend are essentially snek girls with fluffy wings who go naked because their wings mess with their ability to wear clothes. They also enjoy "the arts" of all kinds, which is basically an AD&D metaphor for "have a high enough charisma and you can fuck one".

Oh, and the Jugoloth remain untouched because they are all biological hermaphrodites.

>>252533

>>252533

>Glasya and Fierna left

So basically, girl with daddy issues and her uberdyke Kuroko tier admirer left to their own devices? That will end well, and give nthat her sthick is teasing people to danmnation you can bet hell will be all about eternal edging without satisfactory release, yeah, imagine that, needing to jizz but it's never allowed ot happen so it just builds up and and up until you lose yourself in madness.

There's also the matter of Male Elder evils snuffing it, Bahamut Snuffing it so evil dragons go on a world conquering death orgy, and Tiamat needs the D because eggs and shit, Kobolds and all dragons go apeshit becausea good their fucking gods snuffed it including the Kobold god, so all out endless Gnome eradication would be in season.

Elminster get's away with it because he's a dirty omni-cuck and turns back into a woman again, and thay is overrun with violent kebab whore neurotic necromancers because ltierally all the leaders are male I think

The Drow celebrate until they realize that men were actually important and now they go through a hilarious societal collapse because as women, tthey can't do anything right, and become cock hunting savages resulting in half-drow galore.

Alternatively, Loth causes a Violent futa incursiion to solve this provlem, and is in heat constantly because she doesn't have any more hot vampire dick to suck.

A good chunk of Demiplane of dread darklords are pretty much gone for good.

Knowing Graz'zt, that bitch he has that love/hate relationship with might have saved him, via gender switch. Orcus and most of his servants are dead (Guy has a bigger sausagefest order of creepy old men and pleb male virgins that can't into necromancy properly wantign to be spoonfed all the time)

Everyone thinks the Dwarves wern't affected, but they were, and it doesn't show, because beards and accents, Dwarves proceed to engineer a new Dwaf male to save their species with all sorts of Numidium tier hijinks.

Shar and Selune are still catfighting.

Other Elves are fucked, become Eldar tier, will probably accidentally Slaanesh in the near future

Orcs are fucked, Half-orc amazonesses on the rise.

Halflings go fulllbown incase, Halfling hospitality sooner than not implies total shortstack loin destruction imminent.

That one elder evil that goes around turning planes into abberation Paradises like Shub-niggurath get's multiple cults on the rise.

Shocking rise in Vampire Lesbian attacks, due to master Vampire patriarchs snuffing it, Regular vampire scenarios most commonly resemble Elizabeth Bathory or Carmilla knock-offs.

Now, I forgot if Atropus was male, but if it was, then All the undead literally snuff it.

Oh yes, and a lot of churches clergies and faiths get those neato our nuns double as breeding whores setups.

Abberations seek to abuse human male stock to slip in lab-grown genes and the like, half-races and new feats and freakse everywhere.

Being the broken shits they are, Psions invent psionic Gender pronouns and avoid this calamity by identifying as females. Unfortunately, this drove most of them "insane in that sort of way"

Shapeshifters such as dopplegangers and changelings become more widely accepted in society next to human males, and eventually live as they are without deception or identity theft, doign the good old mix n match solution, eventually, theis merges with multiple bloodlies of all sorts of half-races and we get a scenario similar to that Tv pretty-boy Drama Grimm, where monsters exist but they're all shapeshifters as a bonus for hidign their apperances.

A violent lesbian incursion occurs, Royals seek to monetize on dick, and we get gommorah and sodom tier shit goign on in ever country you can find.

isolated villages and comunnities seek dark powers and amny other means to keep their populaces going, and lost island communties and the like of primitives go full blown amazon dick worship etc, somethink end of the world occurs and so on.

Oh right, rampant breeding also incourages the Obryiths to possibly make a comback, Gnolls are recucked bac kinto order because Pseudopenis, and Yeeonghu snuffed it, or alternatively, became a Violent overdyke demon futa Hyena, because Gnolls are cunning or something.

Everyone cool in the nordic Pantheon dies, Valkyries more common Fucking Loki survives, and Hel gains more territories and followers and the like.

Faggot Lich Queen Gith come out on top, Loss of cock endangers their species, but Illlithid still on suicide watch.

Great loss of Minotaurs result in violent heat-consumed bovines roaming Baphomets mazes.

Provided baphomet didnt't finally figure out his name and became the crazed Sacrilidge orgy inducing snake-cock paganmaster that he should be, instead of manlet minotaur.

All Necromancers are Tharja.Dragons crown tier, smite them whilst they last!

Violent sexual werebeast incursion.

Most of the fish get away with it.

Those sealed Demon lords in those wells might get out, including Killeer fuck deities snakeman gookmaster, Malchanthet's bigger monkey-cock loving semen demon rival, and a few others.

>>252550

>Violent sexual werebeast incursion.

Reminder that Lycanthropy and all its variants (arkoúdanthropy, kápranthropy, arouranthropy, tigrianthropy et al) are STDs. Wrap it before you were-tap it.

>>252550

>>252549

>>252548

>>252533

this is the best ERP setting ever

>>252563

Oh right

>All male sea gods snuff it, enjoy the oncoming tsunamis and storms held back by their powers or just aftershocks of their obliteration

>Idiots actually make Boob plate, great loss and setback of generations of metalwork in progres

>Dealed/immprisoned nonhuman males dead, so much for Ancient evils awakening, and secrets an drescue operations occuring

>Cities rise and fall die to loss of large amounts of their militia

>Some cities saved by spellcasters who genderbend the entire city

>Magical beasts or those silly D&D Slapped two animals togther because why not attacks more common

>>252564

>>252563

>>252562

I have to run this sometime

>>252549

Oh shit the kobolds are going to need some way to keep their numbers up before they go extinct

>>252558

You can go two ways with this: women turning people into men with magic and enslaving them for snu snu or a few women turning themselves into men and rule through the power of the dick.

Either of those can also be a futa version. Depends on how far you want to venture into this.

>>252603

Kobolds don't live very long so they have to get on it stat. Maybe one of their sorcerers got lucky and can now rule the mine.

>>252564

Gods can change gender whenever, but even with all the male gods being dead shit goes south.

Tiamat is angry, sad and very horny after the death of her brother Bahamut and now looks for someone to fill that void.

>>252746

Seems that the druids gendershift as well as shapeshift.

Shit, we playing Werewolf: The Apocalypse now?

>captcha: snufkx

No captcha, the last thing you need when all the men died is have the gendershifters be involved with snuff porn.

>>252750

>implying it won't happen

Anon, the Abyss still has a Blood War to win.

You can bet your ass demonic gendershifter rape camps will be a thing.

>>252751

Demons are whatever gender they fancy themselves at the moment. It's not an issue for them, they merely lost about a third of their infinite numbers. (other thirds are female and genderless).

>>252753

Yes, and they still need to replenish their numbers.

Maybe the Baatezu will be more for those. They do have canonical death camps, after all.

>>252755

>Yes, and they still need to replenish their numbers.

>infinite number of demons

>need to replenish their numbers

Pick one

>>252773

Just because they're infinite doesn't mean one gender of them dropping dead all at once doesn't reduce the size of the infinite mass for a short while.

>>252773

Not all infinities are equal mate. Basic math fam

>>252849

1,2,3,4,5,6,7 ,8, 9…

1,2,4,5,7,8,10,11,13…

Seems equal to me anon

>>252858

> 3 == 4

I see through your tricks, Ssendam, go away.

>>252746

Possibly more werebeast hybrids or "enlightened" shapechanging greater beasts or the like.

As for demons, well, it would grant the 9 hells a window of oppurtunity, save for their side being affected, and the abyss would fight it's end for a fairly large power struggle there on out due to the loss of various male demon lords, but a good chunk of them get away with it due to being genderless, as for infintie numbers, well they've got their petitioners, and whatever the abyss spews out itself to meet current criteria, and of course, any other means of reproduction available.

If the devils get their shit togther quick enough, they could make very godo gains on the main battlefield that they're always tryign to cap like a TF2 match that just goes on forever.

>>252907

Now a finite set is one that has no elements at all or that can be put into one-to one correspondence with a set of the form {1, 2, …, n} for some positive integer n. By contrast, an infinite set is a nonempty set that cannot be put into one-to-one correspondence with {1, 2, …, n} for any positive integer n.

There are as many squares as there are numbers because they are just as numerous as their roots. —Galileo Galilei, 1632

Suppose that, as suggested by the quote from Galileo, we extend the concept of size to infinite sets by saying that one infinite set has the same size as another (unlike the example given in the comic) if, and only if, the first set can be put into one-to-one correspondence with the second. What consequences follow from such a definition? Do all infinite sets have the same size, or are some infinite sets larger than others?

>Let A and B be any sets.

>A has the same cardinality as B if, and only if, there is a one-to-one correspondence from A to B.

In other words, A has the same cardinality as B if, and only if, there is a function f from A to B that is one-to-one and onto.

The following theorem gives some basic properties of cardinality, most of which follow from statements proved earlier about one-to-one and onto functions.

For all sets A, B, and C:

a. Reflexive property of cardinality: A has the same cardinality as A.

b. Symmetric property of cardinality: If A has the same cardinality as B, then B has the same cardinality as A.

c. Transitive property of cardinality: If A has the same cardinality as B and B has the same cardinality as C, then A has the same cardinality as C.

Of the countable sets, you've first got {1, 2, 3, 4, …}, which is countably infinite, as is the set of all integers.

To show that the integers are countably infinite, find a function from the positive integers to all integers that is one-to-one and onto. This seems to cause a stir, there appear to be more than twice as many integers as there are positive integers; one infinity larger than the other.

The problem then is with the way you are counting. Let the first integer be 0, the second 1, the third -1, the fourth 2, the fifth -2, and so forth. Even though in one sense there seem to be more integers than positive integers, the elements of the two sets. can be paired up one for one. It follows by definition of cardinality that the first set has the same cardinality as the second. Thus it is countably infinite and hence countable.

f(n) = (n/n if n is an even positive integer, -(n-1)/2 if n is an odd positive integer.)

There's more sets, but eventually Cantor does find a larger infinity by showing that the set of all real numbers is uncountable. Check out his first uncountability proof on that.

>>252907

Ahah but consider the sum ∑ 2k for the sum of even numbers and the sum of natural numbers ∑ k. It is clear that the limit of their ratio (∑ 2k) /)(∑ k) as they approach infinity is in fact 2 and so in fact the set of even number is twice as large as the set of natural numbers.

>>252929

^the sum of even numbers is twice as large as the sum of natural numbers.

>>252929

>>252931

While limits of sequences have many of the same properties as limits of functions, you will find that what you are doing is not how you evaluate a summation in regards to what you are proposing. Nowhere under the given properties of limits can you draw the conclusions that you are claiming: What you are doing is faulty math.

>>254264

>magical technology and cowboys

Okay, tell me more. Now.

>>254268

Murlynd was Don Kaye's character in the second-ever session of D&D back in '72. He was also the very first special snowflake character. Gygax had told Kaye that he could play anything he wanted, so Kaye, who really loved westerns, wanted played a cowboy. In the very first instance of DM telling a player that a player's idea for a character was stupid and did not fit the campaign. They eventually settled on Murlynd being cowboy-like in a fantasy setting, making him quite likely the very first Paladin ever played. He was also a member of the legendary Company of Seven alongside Zagig.

Sadly, Kaye died an untimely death in January '75. In the year before Kaye and Gygax had been working on Boot Hill, a western-themed RPG. Boot Hill is where Murlynd ostensibly got his Firebrands, a pair of Colt Peacemakers. Murlynd was namedropped a few times over the course of years, his name linked to a few spells and the man himself appearing in the module The Land Beyond the Magic Mirror.

The 1998 module Greyhawk: The Adventure Begins casts Murlynd as a hero-deity in service to Heironeous as the god of magical technology. His priesthood's mandate is to search for powerful magical weapons that can be used in the fight against evil and destroying those too dangerous to use. They travel the world to this end, stopping in towns in pursuit of justice but eventually traveling on as poor lonesome cowboys. The motto of the priesthood is Technology is an instrument of Justice so long as the hand that wields it is True.

>>254273

>Techpreist/Brotherhood of Steel God

Neato.

Bump to avoid pruning algorithim.

>>259852

Let's start with a topic, then.

Tell me about the Slaadi Lords, /tg/.

I heard there's a lot of Planescape mods for NWN2. Any good ones?

I'd like to visit various planes as long as they're mostly lore friendly.

>>262647

>some berk masquerades as the Lady of Pain in order to fuck halfling children

Yeah, that guy is dead.

>>262989

Lady of Pain has never been sighted outside of Sigil. As long as he stays clear he's safe. Also the Lady of Pain is absolute trash as a concept.

>>263096

You're absolute trash as a concept. But hey, that's just like an opinion or something.

>>262647

> a child offers a flower in pure reverence/kindness/affection

> Lady of Pain grants a boon

What will it be?

>>261924

I know Planescape trilogy that's been vaporware for years.

>>266966

Not being flayed is boon enough.

Have you used any of the Archdevils in your campaigns? How did it go?

>>267686

As antagonists you can go with pretty much any of them. As allies to the party I'd go with Bel. He is after all perfectly willing to listen if the party has a way to genuinely aid in the furthering of the Blood War.

>>267942

There are an infinite number of points between one and two on a number line. There are an infinite number of points between one and three, also. One of these infinite sets is twice as big as the other.

>>267962

The number of points aren't twice as much although two is twice as large as one. If all you want to say is two is twice as large as one, then there is no need to bring up infinite sets. You have totally missed the poster's point.

Ah, Planescape… the only setting where it's "heroic" to be tricked by a Daemon (ultroloth, to be specific) into stealing the Dead God of Portals' (Aoskar) divine essence for them… thus further suppressing Demons and Devils within the Blood War. Don't blame us, Devas put us up the assignment… gods-damned celestial pricks.