No.4227 [Last50 Posts]
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No.4230
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No.4231
The original Sith Empire and its Golden Age have always been my favorite element of the timeline.
Kylo and Supreme Leader Stabbed weren't Sith. I don't mean that in "I don't like them so they don't count!" way (I was actually interested in them); the canon verdicts keep insisting they weren't part of the Sith heritage.
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No.4242
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>>4227
>first picture is Snokey Joe
Bait? Oh well.
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No.4243
>>4242
its a crappy image for a reason
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No.4266
>>4227
Your first pic never happened and is from corrupted high definition holo-recordings.
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No.10763
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Anyone else have The Book of Sith, or Jedi vs Sith?
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No.10766
>>10763
Jedi vs Sith is ok, but you're better off with Darth Bane: Path of Destruction, which expands on the same story.
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No.10769
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No.10770
>>10769
>that method
Clever. And yes, those are what I mean. The former is a very fun "compilation" book, complete with commentary from various Jedi and Sith over time. It even features a cross-generational one of Anakin and Luke Skywalker.
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No.10791
>>4227
They are using the violence and it tends to achieve the goals quicker than Jedi but why can't they be both instead of choosing one side?
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No.10805
>>10791
Because the dark side of the force fuels a quick rise to power (hence why sith like it), and when you access the dark side it pulls you deeper in to darkness and evil. This is the nature of Star Wars. In most Star Wars Tabletop you can't even use things like Force Lightning without heading further towards evil. This is a world with abject good and evil, unless you're a nu-Star Wars faggot.
Also sith don't tip fedoras.
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No.10811
>>10805
Yet for some reason self buffs do not count, unless your GM is being a prick, even though it still the force helping you. Teräs Käsi exploit this loop hole very well. I guess its less evil to buff youself and choke someone with your own hand, then using the force to do it.
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No.10812
>>10811
As a GM I'd still give dark side points for buffing yourself to do something involving rage/violence/anger. I guess I'm a prick, but I really want people to always feel like the dark side is calling them when they play my game. Unless they're non-force sensitive, then they can get away with most things short of destroying a planet (and hey, sometimes planets need to be destroyed). It's how I balance how OP Jedi always are.
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No.10834
>>10812
You totally should, but I can see that a more direct application of the force being used would be darker then making you do something you could already do. Things got really werid where in an ambushed, one of us was buffed and the other was not, both downed someone, but the buffed character got the DP. This halariously started forcing all of us to start toning our power levels down when we realized we where winning a fight. We always ended up hopeing the soldier would pick them off first. While in game the Jedi bitched at him.
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No.10835
>>10834
>We always ended up hoping the soldier would pick them off first. While in game the Jedi bitched at him.
That's great, that conflict in motivation is hilarious.
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No.10836
>>4227
>implying first pic are siths or are worthy of discussion
Fucking newfag.
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No.10851
>>10805
>This is a world with abject good and evil, unless you're a nu-Star Wars faggot.
If the reasoning goes that the dark side is inherently corrupting, and that calling on it inevitably forces you to become passion-driven and sadistic, then that's a good enough argument why you can't have a fedora-tipping Grey Jedi that uses Force Lightning without consequence. But does that fact really necessitate a split between good and evil? An individual could still acquire the mental and emotional discipline of the Jedi, and use that to avoid the dark side and its calling, but choose not to become an active do-gooder, no? If you're using the Force for benign (but not necessarily altruistic) purposes, and you're actively avoiding the dark side, you're neither good nor evil.
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No.10852
>>10851
>If you're using the Force for benign (but not necessarily altruistic) purposes, and you're actively avoiding the dark side, you're neither good nor evil.
Pretty sure if you're using the force for personal gain with no altruism behind it that would just lead to the Dark Side. You can't just use the supreme force of the galaxy to get your way without it being a pretty selfish act. It may not harm a ton of people but you're still violating the natural order and forcing your will on the galaxy.
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No.10853
>>10852
>You can't just use the supreme force of the galaxy to get your way without it being a pretty selfish act.
Forgot to say: Except the Jedi, but that's because they're actually doing it for the greater good of the galaxy (except all those times they're misguided, but that always leads to the rise of the sith).
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No.10857
>OP starts his argument with smooke
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No.10862
>>10851
>If you're using the Force for benign (but not necessarily altruistic) purposes, and you're actively avoiding the dark side, you're neither good nor evil.
Well no, you’re good. You aren’t hurting anyone, you just aren’t going to have as much Force power as a Jedi since you aren’t drawing on positive emotions like self-sacrifice. There’s nothing wrong with the concept of Light Side users who aren’t Jedi, but that’s very different from what Gray Jedi are and what they espouse.
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No.10867
>>10852
>>10853
But the dark side of the Force doesn't encompass every possible selfish act, it's fueled by certain, specific emotions and motivations. I can buy that drawing on the Force out of petty greed, like making dice games go your way, or persuading traffic cops to ignore your violations, would eventually lead to the dark side. Such acts are intrinsically tied to the baser emotions that call Forceful beings to darkness. But you don't have to be a dick to not be selfless. A man could use the Force exclusively for self-defense, for instance. Assuming he had the training to keep himself emotionally composed, in this scenario he's never in a position where he may be tempted to the dark, but he's also not doing anything to earn himself good boy points.
Granted, however, you're correct in that most non-light occupations, e.g. ethical and non-profit bounty hunting, have lots of potential to corrupt you no matter how good your original intentions.
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No.10873
>>10862
I think you need a little more than a lack of evil to be called "good", personally. Benign self-interest is just that; it's not evil because you're not initiating aggression against another, but there's no selflessness to call good either.
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No.10878
>>10867
>A man could use the Force exclusively for self-defense, for instance.
Honestly if you're using the force to throw around non-force sensitives who, at that point, would be no threat to you because you are so strong with the force: It's still an evil act. The dark side of the force does encompass every selfish at, the dark side is selfishness at it's core. It's not like it's only triggered by certain key acts of seflishness, that's a video game you're thinking of, the dark side, at least according to Yoda, is ever looming and ever tempting Jedi. It is taking the easy route to power and victory , and yes that includes self defense. You have to stop thinking of it like it's some vague thing and realize that Star Wars is basically a universe with a God and Devil. That's half the point.
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No.10884
>>10878
>Honestly if you're using the force to throw around non-force sensitives who, at that point, would be no threat to you because you are so strong with the force: It's still an evil act.
I'm afraid I can't see your logic here. The evilness of the act is dependent on the strength differences of the combatants? So if I got jumped by thugs in an alley, it's only ethical for me to fight back if they've brought ysalamiri? Now, don't get me wrong, there are ways where this hypothetical interaction could lead to the dark side–if you took sadistic pleasure in inflicting harm on your combatants, reveling in your bloodlust and passion, rather than mentally enforcing a state of serenity. If you were intentionally standoffish and provoked a fight before even attempting to resolve things peacefully. If you were brutal in the way you fought, and were sought to crush your opponents rather than merely neutralize them. There's lot's of potential for a fall if you don't have emotional discipline, but any Force-sensitive who maintains control in this situation can come out of it no closer to the dark side.
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No.10885
>>10884
>You have to stop thinking of it like it's some vague thing and realize that Star Wars is basically a universe with a God and Devil. That's half the point.
No, I agree completely with that assessment. The dark side side and light side aren't two sides of the same coin. The light "side" is simply the Force in its normal state, whereas the dark side is a perversion, driven by passion and sadism. Where we seem to disagree is how the dark side manifests. You're maintaining that it's primarily selfishness, not only that but any and all selfishness. But I don't believe that's the case; there are many counterexamples to that assertion. Anakin Skywalker turned to the dark side because of initially selfless intentions: he wanted to save his wife. Some argue that Revan entered the Mandalorian wars selflessly as well, that he knew there was a high chance of him falling, but he did it anyways because he believed saving the Outer Rim was worth the potential consequences of him falling. Darth Caedus flimsy as this justification is, it's still an example decided to become a Sith Lord because he probably wrongly, but if he earnestly believes it the motivation is genuine believed that if he didn't, all future would end with him killing Luke. Yuthura Ban joined the Sith so she could have the power to liberate slaves.
On the Jedi side, we also have instances of Jedi behaving selfishly. Strictly speaking, Yoda was selfish for going into an exile on an uninhabited world, where there was no chance of his discovery. If he had gone to an inhabited planet, he would have more opportunity to protect others from injustice, but at a greater risk of being captured. Putting his self-preservation over the well-being of others is undeniably selfish, yet it doesn't draw him to the dark side You could argue that Yoda wasn't putting himself first, but knew he had to be hidden if the Jedi Order were to be restored, but that's still him putting his own group–the Jedi–over the galaxy at large, which is arguably a selfish act. And what about all the Jedi who choose to remain cloistered in the Temple, focusing on their own mastery of the Force instead of going out into the galaxy and helping others? They're technically being selfish, by putting ther own spiritual enlightenment ahead of helping others. But they're not in danger of falling to the dark side either. So benign selfishness–that is, selfishness that doesn't come at the expense of others–is clearly not a path to the dark side. And selflessness isn't a surefire path to the light, either, with many Sith and darksiders starting although usually not ending their path with selflessness.
So what's the point of all these examples? Ultimately, what separates the light from the dark isn't selfless acts or selfless intention, but emotion. The core teaching of the Jedi isn't charity, or selflessness, but peace and serenity. Likewise, the Sith don't hand out puppy-kicking quotas, but Sith philosophy demands giving in wholeheartedly to your passions, to be driven by lust, hatred, greed, and other base desires, and following those desires to greater power. Intending to use this power to help others doesn't deter you from the path to the dark side in the slightest.
In conclusion, it's because of this focus on emotion that one can potentially avoid the call of the dark side without becoming a saint. Our hypothetical Gray, provided he can maintain emotional discipline and composure, adopting a serene mask when drawing on the Force and avoiding baser passions, can stay away from the dark side without becoming a paragon of goodness. He won't be able to reach true mastery of the light side, because like >>10862 points out he won't be able to draw on compassion and similar emotions of the light. He also won't be able to call on Force Lightning and similar because, like I've been stressing, he's still got the same mental disciplines Jedi adopt to avoid the dark side's call.
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No.10891
>>10884
But you have to realize that if you're using the force to beat up people who don't have the force and therefore really aren't a threat to you (using the force isn't a small advantage, you're using the GRAND HOLY POWER OF THE UNIVERSE to beat up some thugs? Sound fair?) is an act of selfishness and just seeking to gain power and victory as quickly as possible. That in it's self is the dark side.
The force isn't some random weapon, it's the power of god, if you use that without having a altruistic underlying purpose than you're asking for the dark side to come looking for you.
>>10885
>Anikin turned to the darkside for selfless reasons
Not really, he wanted the power to save those he loved. That's lust for quick easy power. That's the dark side.
>Revan and the Mandalorians was selfless
Not really when you consider that Revan was from the Core Worlds and was protecting his home.
>Yoda was selfish for going in to exile on an uninhabited world
Not really, it's not selfish to not go out of your way and help people you don't even know are in trouble, also not all Jedi have to help everyone, they usually choose to do so but Jedi Masters generally leave that shit to excitable padawans, most Jedi masters understand the universe is as it will be. Plus that world wasn't just uninhabited, it was tainted with the dark side (the tree), and Yoda went there to purify it.
>Seeking spiritual enlightenment is selfish
Now you're saying everything a Jedi does that isn't helping people 24/7 is selfish? Have you lost your mind? All your examples are shit and you're still avoiding my statement that using the force in any way personally beneficial would be leading to the dark side, and anyone who isn't doing that and is being "adopting a serene mask" as you put it: IS A JEDI!!! even if they're a shit one that doesn't follow the order.
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No.10892
>>10891
> Revan was from the Outer Rim***
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No.10894
>>10891
>But you have to realize that if you're using the force to beat up people who don't have the force and therefore really aren't a threat to you
But if you didn't use the Force, this random group of thugs would be a threat. I'm not suggesting to blast them into smithereens while cackling about UNLIMITED POWWWER, just using the bare minimum necessary to subdue them without killing, run away, or knock out one and convince the rest to resolve this peacefully. Where's the dark side influence there?
>The force isn't some random weapon, it's the power of god, if you use that without having a altruistic underlying purpose than you're asking for the dark side to come looking for you.
And like I said, there's potential to fall in this scenario. But just because the option to take the sadistic and easy route doesn't mean you're obligated to take it.
>you're still avoiding my statement that using the force in any way personally beneficial would be leading to the dark side
My apologies if that's how my argument appeared, that is not my intention. Rather, I'm claiming that the dark/light dichotomy isn't determined by selfish/selflessness, but how you draw on the Force: whether you call on passion and base emotions, like hatred and lust for power, or you avoid the call of those emotions in favor of serenity. It's true that these passionate emotions lend themselves much more to selfishness than they do for selfless actions, but this is an emergent property, not the fundamental core of the dark side. The core of the dark side is the emotions involved.
>also not all Jedi have to help everyone, they usually choose to do so but Jedi Masters generally leave that shit to excitable padawans, most Jedi masters understand the universe is as it will be
Exactly, understanding the light side isn't dependent on how selfless you are.
>Now you're saying everything a Jedi does that isn't helping people 24/7 is selfish? Have you lost your mind?
That's not what I'm saying, no. I'm pointing out that avoiding the dark side isn't dependent on how many selfless actions you take.
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No.10895
>>10894
sage for doublepost
>"adopting a serene mask" as you put it: IS A JEDI!!! even if they're a shit one that doesn't follow the order.
How can you be a Jedi if you don't follow the Order? "Jedi" isn't a term for any and all lightsiders, it's an institution with explicit membership. You can't be a Jedi and not be of the Order. Adopting Jedi tenets in their entirety isn't a prerequisite for becoming emotionally serene. Being truly selfless and self-sacrificing isn't a prerequisite for the "mask of serenity" either, you just need to learn to control your emotions. "Not giving in to hate/passion/lust/etc" is not the same thing as actively promoting self-sacrifice and compassion.
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No.10896
>>10885
>The light "side" is simply the Force in its normal state, whereas the dark side is a perversion, driven by passion and sadism
Different anon, but I disagree. The Force is a gestalt of living things, and the Dark Side are the negative emotions of life. It is a part of the Force and indulging it gets you overwhelmed by it.
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No.10897
>>10896
It is an omnipresent part of the Force, yes. When I mentioned that my motivation was to dispel the notion that bringing "balance" to the Force requires both light and dark, when this is not the case. The Force isn't yin and yang, balance requires for the light to triumph over the dark.
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No.10899
>>10897
Yes, Lucas stated the Sith put the force out of balance. The Jedi mention everything is clouded and their ability to use it had diminished. The Sith were fucking up the force through their experiments and Sidious was using their seemingly recently discovered power to ‘cloud’ things.
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No.10900
>Sith did nothing wrong
Except being evil incarnated. I fucking loath the whole theology surrounding this shit. It's pretty f'n clear to even a child that Siths are supposed to be evil and Jedis are supposed to represent good. And their actions follows that and if you use your powers for evil you become a sith.
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No.10901
>>10900
It's like going to heaven or hell. Anakin redeemed himself in RoTJ by sacrificing himself to save his son and thus he died a jedi and went to heaven/became a force ghost.
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No.10902
>>10901
Meanwhile, Sith become wraiths and ghosts bound to the "crude matter," unable to pass into the Force and trapped with their thoughts for millennia. Until they willingly embrace the Light Side.
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No.11484
>>10900
>f'n
You have to be eighteen years or older to post here.
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No.11609
>>10900
>fucking
>f'n
why write it uncensored in one sentence and then censor yourself in the next sentence?
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No.11611
>>10900
Yeah, Jedi are the designated good guys, Sith are the designated bad guys. Even "neutrals" are called Grey Jedi for a reason. Calling yourself a Sith is basically the equivalent of calling yourself an evil asshole. And whenever the Jedi are "wrong", they are usually either being misguided by the Sith or the Dark Side or else they ended up doing unintentionally bad shit with the best intentions while the Sith are never doing stuff that could be considered noble or good.
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No.12266
I figure this is a good thread to ask: Is there a meaningful distinction between Sith and Dark Jedi? People generally seem to use those two terms interchangeably, but if we look at Kyle and Snookles for example, we have two dark side force users who don't follow the Sith code, as >>4231 has pointed out.
Arguably, there's even examples in the real canon. To my knowledge, Jerec and his gang of dark jedi have never been referred to as Sith, even in the Jedi Knight material that came out after the Sith had been fleshed out more.
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No.12278
>>12266
The Sith follow a pretty specific philosophy: using passion as the fuel to build your own personal power, disdain for weakness, and so on. Dark Jedi merely use the dark side, without that ideological framework. They can be simply amoral and selfish with a hint (or a lot) of callousness here and there, rather than actively pursuing some goal greater than themselves.
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No.12280
>>12266
Sith follow a whole doctrinal/theological construction dating from the Old Sith Empire passing by the New Sith Empire. Bane was trained by them and learned from Revan's holocron, whose creator was taught by the remnants of the old sith empire, etc, etc. So there was a link, some sense of continuity.
Dark Jedi are any force user who knew how to summon the Force and don't cut his own head while using a light saber.
>>12266
Jerec was a sith in all but name, he knew about them like no other outside Palpatine and Vader. He spoke sith language just like them, etc, etc. Yet he remained a dark jedi.
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No.12506
Was Vader really supposed to be seen as an angry, rage-fueled guy like Disney's writers see him? In the original trilogy he seems almost as in control of himself as Ben Kenobi, the main distinction between them being his impatience and his preference to confront problems directly just like Luke instead of sidestepping them. He's not that different from Thrawn in his cold calculating leadership. Sheev didn't seem that angry either, in fact he was very cheerful throughout most of Return of the Jedi even when he was shooting lightning.
It seems to me that they want to retroactively frame Vader as an unstable maniac exactly like Kylo Ren who draws his power from some weird sense of self-loathing.
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No.12508
>>12506
Vader’s was never seen as a self-loathing rageaholic until the novelization for ROTS and the EU stuff where he impales himself to kill Darth Maul. In ANH he’s a Secret Police officer for an authoritarian state. His job is to find rebels and bash their shit in. He wants order and gets pissed off when people screw up.
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No.12510
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>>12508
>novelization
M8, I'd say his second-to-last scene in the movie itself makes clear at least the self-loathing. That's not even taking into account his scenes of conflict and rage throughout the Prequels. Also, secret police officers don't murder their fellows just for being angry at a screwup.
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No.12511
>>12508
Actually in Shadows of Empire he was show as a self loathing person, and the biggest characterization of it was in "Dark Lord" which was exactly the point where he learned to circumvent his depression and self loath so he could function and keep on living.
"Look at us. Are the the faces of victory?" I would be a self loathing wreck if i was in his position.
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No.12512
>>12510
I know that in the wider context of the prequels and the post-ROTS era books it makes sense, but after rewatching the original trilogy by itself I just can't see any self-loathing coming across. He clearly has absolute faith in himself and the righteousness of his cause right up until the end of Return of the Jedi when he ultimately decides that his son's life is more important than Sheev's plans. If we're to take original trilogy Vader at face value then we have to assume that he got over his self-loathing at some point in the 19 years between ROTS and ANH, otherwise these separate depictions will start to look like very different characters.
None of the pre-Disney depictions are as jarringly different as the post-Disney ones of course. Rogue One's crude wisecracking Vader was particularly weird. Pic related is also bizarre, I can't imagine James Earl Jones pulling off a line this goofy. Vader would never make a tongue in cheek reference to his own cartoonish villainy. He's turning into a self-parody.
>Also, secret police officers don't murder their fellows just for being angry at a screwup.
To be fair real world secret polices have tortured and killed people for lesser crimes than serious military incompetence. Admiral Ozzel's clumsiness single handedly saved the rebellion and Captain Needa managed to let an aging freighter with a broken hyperdrive slip through his fingers.
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No.12513
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>>12512
>I MUST take you to the Emperor…
>'It is too late for me, son.
Not entirely. It's mostly suppressed by this point, but those lines and the way he mulls it over after Luke has left are telling.
>pic
That would have been better, and tad more menacing if he removed the contraction and left it at "I have killed many fathers." It would still fit within Vader's sense of subtle wit as well. Or have you forgotten "Apology accepted, Captain Needa"? Incidentally, go listen to that scene (and Ozzel's) in the NPR radio drama. It might send a chill down your spine.
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No.12537
>>12506
>>12508
He's very self-loathing, there's no questioning that. He's not a rageaholic though.
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No.13326
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>Emperor Ford Xerxes XII
What was George on back then?
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No.14004
http://www.starwarstimeline.net/Cult%20Encounters.htm
>"A Knight should know only the Temple, the Code, their Masters and fellow students. Ideally, for this to be the case, training should begin prior to the age of three, before one forms strong loyalties and emotional bonds with family, friends and homeworlds. I would see this rule one day become as inviolate as the Jedi Code itself. To avert other problems that would arise from a sudden move in this direction, this change must occur over a gradual period of time in order for the peoples of the Republic to grow accustomed to the practice and necessity that we must impose. Families of Force-sensitive children will not readily give up their children, but if life of dedication at the Temple is deemed a great honor and noble sacrifice for the galaxy, they will submit, and the Senate will understand that it is for the Republic that we do this, and will align accordingly."
>Apparently this all almost got printed in Gamer and later the eventually defunct Hyperspace
And the Jedi call the Sith manipulative and heartless.
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No.14007
>>12506
>>12508
I'd say he sort of is, but more in the sense he's very in control of his anger and hatred. It's more focused and tamed anger rather than reckless rage like nuStar Wars does for it's villians.
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No.14046
>>13326
Very hamfisted political allegory, the nastiest storytelling meme there is.
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No.14053
>>14046
Welcome to the world of our autistic boy George.
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No.14059
>implying fascist imperiums are the bad guys
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No.16473
>>10885
>Anakin Skywalker turned to the dark side because of initially selfless intentions: he wanted to save his wife
i can tell you haven't read Stovers Revenge of the Sith
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No.16485
>>10900
fuck off with this shit and play KOTOR where you realize the force in general sucks, too much of either side kills you, and both the jedi and sith are assholes
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No.16497
>>4227
>you will never be a darksider content with collecting sith artifacts in a cozy hiding spot on one of the grave worlds, performing experiments and compiling information to your heart's content with only the occasional interference from some dweeb jedi
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No.16601
Is there any difference between a Sith who attains power to achieve a goal and a Sith who attains power for the sake self-betterment and becoming more powerful? Is one considered lesser for using Sith teachings to attain power in order to do something (save the Republic ala Revan) rather than using it only for yourself?
I apologize for the stupid question
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No.16602
>>16601
Well, you have Jedi, and you have Sith, but then you also have Dark Jedi, and a bunch of fence sitters or special snowflake parties. The whole point of the Sith is that they tend to go pretty overboard for their goals. Maybe the goal can be enough to be "better", but there is no such thing as a Sith being happy with just one goal. There's always another goal, and all goals seem to be larger than the last. It's an impulse thing.
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No.16603
>>16601
I would wager that you wouldn't be considered 'lesser' for obtaining some alternate goal (even Sheev went out of his way to make sure the Empire was a competently-run, functional entity, darkside-spawned superweapons notwithstanding), as long as you don't put completing that goal above your personal quest for power. Once your pet project starts getting in the way of enhancing your own abilities it turns into a weakness that holds you back from your true potential.
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No.16604
>>16603
>>16602
I see now thanks. Also, how does Nihilus fit into the Sith philosophy? He seems to be more of an eldritch being in nature rather than anything similar to say Darth Sion. Did he just get lumped in with the rest?
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No.16614
>>16604
Nihilus is something of an anomaly, as he was created in a one-in-a-trillion freak accident; you're quite correct in calling him an eldritch being. I still think it's fair to call him Sith, because he exploits his aberrations to their fullest extent, and uses them to attain more power. However, you could also argue that Nihilus's addiction to consuming others through the Force was a weakness in and of itself, and thus a violation of the Sith code, in spite of the power it may bring–a combination juicer and cocaine junkie might be stronger and faster than an MMA fighter, but his dependency on those things also makes him erratic and a slave to those substances.
And on the gripping hand, you could say that all Sith similarly fall prey to addiction, just to a lesser extent. Prolonged use of the dark side of the Force makes the user addicted to the negative emotions on which they draw to sustain power, eventually to the point that their sadistic desires, while increasing their potency in the Force, decreases their power in other respects. To use the example from before, take Sheev. Palpatine was incredibly cunning and went to great pains to make sure that his rule was not just accepted but greeted with thunderous applause. But his continued drawing on the dark side and negative emotions is what drove him to construct the Death Stars, whose capability for wanton destruction greatly satisfied the Sith in him, but ultimately proved to be the downfall of his Empire. The construction and destruction of the first one is what gave the Rebellion legitimacy and prompted an awful lot of planets to join them, most notably Mon Calamari. Even discounting that, the Death Stars were a very large resource sink, one that could have gone into making legions of Star Destroyers, or into makework infrastructure projects on developing worlds, to serve as propaganda bolstering the stability, order, and competence of the new Empire; but all of that potential political/military gain was sacrificed for Forceful gain in power. So, instead of Nihilus's addiction being a weakness that worked against the Sith, perhaps it's just Sith doctrine brought to its logical conclusion–a constant quest for more and more power that inevitably collapses under its own weight. Which scenario is the most accurate? You be the judge.
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No.16625
>>16614
Thanks for the new LOSS
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No.16633
>>16601
We have several Sith like that. Palpatine falls into that category pretty well, blending goals of personal power with the incidental goal of making a shit government better and forming something solid to set his laurels on.
The one thing that fucks up most Sith though is no goal is enough. Given the order's entire ideology boils down to "Evolve or perish", they always have to keep going up. Staying in one place is stagnation and stagnation is fatal in the eyes of a typical Sith. Palpatine was an outlier in that he sought a strongly ordered government built around laws, whereas traditional Sith followed a more survival of the fittest collective mentality (many blamed the old Sith's failures on them starting a conventional government in the first place), but he too fell victim to that mentality. You can never be content as a Sith, because to them being content is stop evolving, and that means stagnation, which means your death. So it's why we see the Empire in its late years go from being a sensible organization with a clear purpose into something slowly bloating, with Palpatine becoming increasingly paranoid of stagnation and doing more and more to solidify his power. I think it's why he became so obsessed with getting Luke on his side. He'd spent a decade or more doing nothing but stewing in his own paranoia, as he didn't know where else to go, and a Sith without a clear path to ascend is like a frantic animal. Getting to turn Luke became his new goal, and what he saw as the evolutionary step he needed to take.
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No.16640
>>16614
Every member of the Sith Triumvirate was a massive deconstruction like everything else in KotOR II and at least half of what Chris Avelone has ever written. They were all brought low and in the end ironically undone by the same dark means that gave their powers and epithets.
Nihlus' hunger for power in and of itself resulted in him becoming something terribly powerful indeed but robbed him of the will or ambition to do anything other than feed his hunger. He became like the xenomorphs in the Aliens franchise: Terribly intelligent yet in motive and inclination an animal. He still had all of his knowledge and his memories of the past but his waking existence was simply dedicated to devouring more of the Living Force.
>>16601
The former always become the latter in the end. The most "enlightened" and gifted Sith eventually realize that power doesn't have to be justified. The pursuit of greater power is the only goal there has to be. It's how many converts to Sith teachings start off and how many Sith who think they'll end up differently try to anchor themselves. Eventually, however, that guiding beacon of an alternative goal is subsumed by the quest for unlimited power.
Revan turning to the Dark Side to rescue the Republic is just Kreia's rationalization. There's no reason to accept it as the truth instead of the abundance of habit evidence among the Sith and Dark Jedi in the lore that he simply became corrupt and wanted power over others.
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No.18663
So what is the difference between a dark Jedi and a Sith? Both seem pretty similar in terms of behavior, but yet they are considered different. What about the Sith philosophy makes them different and the Sith to be considered the more dangerous of the two? Other than the Rule of Two, which is more out of practicality then anything else.
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No.18670
>>18663
The Sith have a specific ideology centered around might makes right and building personal strength. Dark Jedi is a catch-all term for dark side users that don't follow the Sith, so what they believe is a lot more varied. Usually they end up being selfish fucks, who'll use the Force to acquire wealth or make life more convenient, but without the ambition and predilection for power that Sith have. Also unlike Sith, Dark Jedi won't necessarily scoff at indulging vices, but that again varies from one to the other because Dark Jedi isn't a coherent philosophy. The Sith would be considered more dangerous becasue they're single mindedly focused on acquiring more power, and as a result have a much deeper understanding of the dark side.
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No.18803
>>18670
Dark jedi= pussy nihilist
Sith = chad
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No.18898
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No.18933
>>18803
Virgin Nihilist is more fitting. Fuck it. I'm going to make a virgin vs chad edit out of this.
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No.25030
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
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No.25036
>>4231
I liked Kylo and Snoke but it's not obvious to me whether I'm reading the point of their dynamic correctly. As I saw it, they're meant to show that the doctrines of the Sith are built into the nature of the dark side itself–without either of them knowing what they're doing, they've recreated the Sith structure where the apprentice kills the master as his final test. Kylo thinks he's doing something new the entire time and Snoke never expects his apprentice to turn on him.
The problem is that all this stuff about the Sith comes from non-movie sources. The only time we see a Sith apprentice killing his master in the movies is Anakin killing Palpatine, and that has a totally different context (when you add the EU it becomes an ironic twist on Sith practice which is great, but there's no hints toward that in the movies). I have no reason to think Rian Johnson knew or cared about the details of what the Sith were in the EU. For all I know it was just more subverting expectations where he expected the audience to think Kylo would be redeemed and then pulled a twist out of his ass, and the resemblance to the Sith is coincidental.
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No.25054
>>25036
That actually never occurred to me, good observation.
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No.25056
>>4227
Jedi > Sith, unironically.
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No.25076
How does one get a qt Sith gf? I want to torture slaves and put uppity officers in their place with her.
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No.25082
>>18933
>>25076
You don't get her, she gets you, anon.
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No.25088
>>25082
Does she reverse rape you?
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No.25133
>>25076
I heared somewhere that Sith pureblood women respect strenght. Do you have that?
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No.25143
>>25088
Well Hitler, you clearly and enthusiastically seem to want it to happen, so even a Gatalentan court would have trouble calling it rape.
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No.25148
>>25133
I don't have strenght, but I do have strength :^)
>>25143
No, not regular rape, reverse rape. You know, where the woman forces herself on a man who's only pretending to resist.
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No.25155
>>25148
>pretending
She's a Sith, you dumb nigger. She'll figure out what you're doing, then, for your insolence, Force torture your body and mind so hard you'll be a mewling wreck begging for death. She will then rape you instead, bringing you to even greater heights of terror and pain, before leaving you to be a brokenminded plaything.
When motivated, the Sith can be as bad as the Dark Eldar. Guess what can motivate a Sith.
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No.25162
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No.25205
Tbh I always had these autistic daydreams of being a Sith when I was in younger. Controlling the Dark Side, shooting lightnings out of my fingers on my schoolmates, for fun, fighting epic duels with my lightsaber, having a badass Imperial Fleet to destroy my school starship to travel with etc. Damn, I have to go back to play SWTOR…
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No.25206
>>25205
We've all had those thoughts, anon.
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No.25213
>>25205
I wanted to be a jedi like Yoda and live on a swamp as a child…
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No.25500
>>25205
Yeah, I think we all have autism.
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No.25505
>>25205
I use to imagine force choking the teacher or some faggot then killing pretty much the whole class with a lightsaber. I probably would have become a temple shooter if I had access to a elegant weapon instead of just guns.
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No.25508
>>25206
>>25505
>>25205
>>25206
Speak for yourself.
Sheesh, I just wanted more adventures with Grand Admiral Thrawn and Godzilla as a kid. I didn't even factor in my rotten classmates. You faggamuffins had have? issues.
>>25213
Now see, that there is a healthy psyche. If a touch masochistic by accident.
>>25500
This we can agree on, double dubsman.
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No.25511
>>25206
I just wanted a comfy corellian YT-series freighter to live on while I explored the galaxy. Or a GR9 because that one could hold a fighter or two. not that having force powers to fuck with your enemies wouldn't be nice
>>25500
The real autism is having made up some bullshit alternate timeline as the backstory with Clone and Stormtrooper action figures battling each other. cross-era battles in Star Wars games never ever
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No.25517
>>25508
In my defense, I didn't think about my rotten classmates specifically. I just wanted to be a cool guy who force powers and doesn't afraid of anything.
>>25500
Thirded.
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No.25524
>>25511
Why on earth would you have a filthy rustbucket like that when you could have a Decimator or Fury class?
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No.25526
>>25511
If I was going to cruise through space I'd like something like the Night Caller–a pocket carrier that can punch above her weight class with a squadron of mercenary pilots to back her up. Just jump from one planet to another doing mercenary work, escort jobs, maybe some smuggling here and there…
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No.25553
>>25524
Fury class is the default choice for any self-respecting Sith Lord.
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No.26931
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
May the Cheese be with you!
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No.26932
>>26931
It's actually not too bad, though the acting and effects can be somewhat hit and miss.
I'm actually surprised that the EU didn't have more stories set immediately after ROTS considering the potential there was with Vader and the Empire's earliest days. Seeing Vader be openly broken is something I haven't seen before to any large extent.
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No.26933
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>26932
Speaking of EU and that period, were those two black-clad Imperial Guard what I think they were?
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No.26935
>>26931
The acting is pretty weak, but this actually feels more like Classic and EU Star Wars than anything Disney has made. Hell I enjoyed that more than anything by disnye.
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No.26958
>>26933
I thought that was just the lighting being dark. Rewatching it, I guess that actually is the color of the costumes- given that they have guards with red armor in an earlier scene. I suppose it actually could be Shadow guards, though they didn't seem to have the saberstaffs.
>>26935
Practically anything would be better than the disney trilogy and solo, so it really isn't surprising.
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No.27169
>>26931
So is disney actually considering this to be part of their actual cannon?
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No.27170
>>27169
Hell no. If anything they'll shut it down if it gains too much traction and they see that the guy's patreon is going up too high. Also this version of Vader is too close to his EU incarnation than his Disney/Marvel incarnation so they'd never let this in.
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