/sw/ - Star Wars

I feel this way about gaslighting as well from time to time. I suspect a lot of that is because I never watched Clone Wars (the 3D one) and we get some people who blur the lines between the Disney and EU content, often innocently and by accident. It's part of why I don't consume any Disney Wars media; it would just make me feel schizophrenic about it all.

>>22208

>Actually reads what the OP was talking about

>It's different from what I just wrote about

I assumed Star Wars was always super-popular because I'm young and wasn't around for the OT's release, but my parents seemed to know about it so I assumed it was common. It's likely this impression of popularity comes from other younger people who simply have no clue.

>>22213

I'm fairly young myself I remember RotS coming out in theaters and that's it, and even I've noticed this gaslighting/revisionism. They definitely weren't unpopular, I remember seeing merchandise for sale and R2D2 plastered on candy and shit, but there was meme hype the way there is now. Prequel hate is also a relatively new idea, I wasn't even aware of the phenomenon until I started browsing the Internet in earnest. It's tempting to call this gaslighting, and to a certain point it is, but it's not anything so malicious, no one's trying to deliberately mold opinion about Star Wars that comes in 2014. It just became trendy to hate the prequels, and so normalcattle who didn't mind them in theaters decided they hate them one day, because some of their opinion-formers told them getting angry about these movies is the hip new thing. This shit happens all the damn time, I don't know if any of you have normie friends but a few years ago some Internet fag decided that the word "moist" was vile and repulsive, and before you know it everyone in meatspace who likely didn't give a shit about the word two weeks ago are now adamant that this synonym for "slightly damp" is now a stain on the English language.

>>22213

>I assumed Star Wars was always super-popular

sort of, its similar to how the Dead Kennedys were popular. For what Star Wars is, sure its popular.

op you're mostly right. when the ot came out, it was the event movie that basically kicked off the summer blockbuster craze. the original was normalfag enough that anyone could enjoy it. the sequels were what kept it contained to the nerd crowd, with each additional entry getting less normalfag and more nerd. after the ot finished its run, the games and comics and whathaveyou kept the franchise afloat purely thanks to the nerds and the occasional normalfag who stepped through the door. by the time episode 1 came out, all the normalfags who were kids were now adults with kids, and thought "hot damn, it'll be like when i was a kid!" and thus episode 1 raked in the dollars. however, the balance of nerd to normalfag was not quite what it was, and the prequels were vacated more to the nerd crowd. it's more or less the same thing now, except the films have been nuked to be far more accessible to normalfags and less to the nerds that have kept it alive for the past decade, and thus 2 billion dollarydoos came out of The Farce Awakens. each trilogy has followed the same path, first entry breaks records, second and third have less hype and less returns. of course, disney shot themselves in the foot with rogue one releasing between the episodes, as the annual release fatigue kicked in far quicker than they anticipated, evident by both rogue one and the last jedi making half of The Farce Awakens, and solo tanking.

also, many people would bitch about the prequels, whether online or in person. their main arguments were jar jar, sand and cgi. yes, they were mostly normalfags (or normalfags attempting to become nerds), as the nerds would defend it a bit with darth maul and clones, but they would get assblasted with "lol you're such a nerd" and the conversation would be over. but now that being a nerd is cool, and star wars is cool again, the normalfags just pretend the prequels didn't happen, or give the good ol' "anything that wasn't the original trilogy didn't count, you faggot". but lemme put it this way: had the RLM videos not come out, the prequels would not have received anywhere near the amount of vitriol that they have.

you're not wrong on the revisionism part, everything being done now is being presented as if it was the first time, when it's all literally from the EU.

>>22208

>A few years back I stumbled across the RLM videos tearing the prequels apart and it was news to me that people didn't like them.

You watched the prequels when you were too little to care about the drop in quality from the OT. What else? Kids eventually grow up wiser.

1. But you've come to hate the 'grow up already' argument from feminists, 2. but you've become distrustful of social consensus, 3. but the enemy of your enemy is your friend (so the PT reviled by nuSW must have some redeeming quality). I'm sorry that kids from your generation are so fucked in the head, but it's up to you to neither ending up a koolaider or a contrarian.

>>22242

>nerds would defend it a bit

Old fans were heartbroken by TPM*, but most didn't give up until AOTC. We were willing to oversee a step in the wrong direction, if later movies would rebalance it, under the reasoning that this was really just one third of a story. That didn't happen.

*We were in shellshock after the premiere, admitting the issues little by little. The only guy in college who liked the movie, was a notorious idiot who commented 'wow first they had space races, but now also underwater, it's like the complete package!'.

Star Wars was added to the National Film Registry as soon as it hit the minimum age required to be eligible (which is still a rarity). While only nerds focused on it, it was absolutely a cultural hit.

>>22314

you actually grow up twice. growing up is when you think the prequels aren't as good as the OT.. But then you grow up again and realize the prequels are much better than the OT and the OT is barely worth revisiting unlike the prequels. The prequels are an INCREASE in quality. Then you grow up a third time and you realize everyone that disagrees with you is insane or brain-dead.

>>22315

I don't think that's even broadly true though. I knew plenty of people who had grown up around the release of the OT who still enjoyed the prequels a lot. Maybe they had a sense that it was more fun when they were kids, but they were far from heartbroken.

>>22315

>'wow first they had space races, but now also underwater, it's like the complete package!'.

To be fair, I think that's legitimate praise for a Star Wars movie. Spectacle has always been a big part of the appeal. You can come for the story sure, but you can also come for the setting, and to see cool stuff.

>Dude! That part with the walkers in the snow!

>Dude! The speeder bikes in the forest!

>>22315

>Old fans were heartbroken by TPM*

You mean you faggots were assmad that it didn't magically make you feel eight years old again.

TPM is probably the best prequel and a mirror of ROTJ.

>>22329

>TPM is probably the best prequel

Disney wars is extremely happy when contrarians like you poison the well. With friends like you, we don't need enemies.

>>22340

>contrarians

dishonest, meaningless word and concept

>>22340

Oh it's you, the faggot who says that Disney wants us to say we like the prequels so they will like watching Luke drink tit milk. Maybe you should go watch rlm and pretend Rey is charismatic.

>>22344

I actually like the scene where Luke drinks tit milk. It's a sign he hasn't completely forgotten his rural routes. It was cute. There's a lot of shit you can criticise in that movie, but I wouldn't pick on that scene.

>>22355

I'm defending one scene. It's a bad movie overall. But maybe you can tell me why a farm boy secluded on a remote island wouldn't instantly fall back on those instincts, and devise ways to make use of his environment, fishing, and milking the local wildlife.

>>22354

Yeah I remember when I visited farms as a child and everyone would just lay down under the cow and suck milk straight from the udder, TLJ brought me back.

>>22356

>farm boy secluded on a remote island wouldn't instantly fall back on those instincts

Farms are places where you domesticate things, ie make them not wild. A farmer's instincts would be to make things civilized and palatable, not act like a crazed wild animal.

>>22354

That's kind of a hard comparison since his farm was a moisture farm. IE it harvested water from underground sources. Not drinking milk straight from the Bantha's tits. Their milk was properly pasteurized and prepared, and Luke would frequent his local cantina with his friends and he hated the farm life for the most part.

>>22357

He's one man, and he hasn't been there very long. What do you want? A factory farming operation. He's developing a relationship with the land.

>>22359

He lived in a desert then. His family were making use of what the land had to offer.

>>22354

>I actually like the scene where Luke drinks tit milk

I'm not surprised.

>>22363

>He's one man, and he hasn't been there very long. What do you want?

A good and dignified character who wasn't a cowardly failure. Go back to bitching about how the trade route plot was too complicated for you.

>>22364

Not really. They had all the modern conveniences at their disposal and plenty of droid slaves and food. Moisture was worth a lot of dough on Tatooine what with it being so arid, so collection enough water could by them weeks worth of Bantha's milk.

>>22363

Luke hated the land. He wanted to leave since childhood and explore the greater galaxy and fly freely. His favorite past time was hunting giant desert rats for fuck's sake. He was hardly a naturist.

>>22367

>by

*Buy

People not liking the prequels has always been a thing, even right after they came out. It just wasn't as widespread because the internet wasn't that much of a thing. I remember a somewhat older friend of mine complaining about the prequels in 2008 or 2009, before we were aware of the Plinkett reviews. Look at James Rolfes videos on Star Wars in which he complained about the prequels before the RLM review. I think Plinkett just gave those people a voice.

I think many people who saw the prequels as kids, myself included, got a new perspective through the Plinkett reviews. While I still love them, in retrospect I can see that they're flawed movies, and a lot of the Plinkett criticisms are valid, but at the same time they were easy to latch on to, so that's what a lot of people did when hating on the prequels became the hip thing to do.

So, Plinkett didn't start the prequel hate, he just gave the people who were disappointed a voice and he got the bandwagon going. Which is somewhat ironic, because Stoklasa actually doesn't care that much about Star Wars beyond the movies.

>>22391

>Which is somewhat ironic, because Stoklasa actually doesn't care that much about Star Wars beyond the movies.

That's what honestly bothers me the most about them. RLM really never gave that much of a shit about SW outside of some childhood nostalgia over the first two films of the OT. He was just parroting everything prequel haters had been saying for years. I don't like the prequels either but Plinkett only helped to make things worse and many of the people who listened to his PT critique and TFA praise with cultish fervor would be the same ones to blindly defend Disney at any cost. And this is made all the more ironic with RLM hating RO for the same reasons they loved TFA. I'll never understand why they got so famous in the first place. It feels like the Nostalgia Critic factor when it comes to them, where half of the people come to watch them for their zany/droopy cartoonish characters reacting and talking about films rather than actually caring about the films and the other half just wants a quick and easy to understand review devoid of complexity. And much like TGWTG their own original media stinks.

**I still remember when a friend in a chat I hang out on came to talk about Suicide Squad with the rest of us and he wouldn't shut up about

"where the cellphone came from" and I told him it was clearly given to Harley. He then embarrassingly told us he hadn't seen the movie and just watched the RLM review where they wouldn't stop complaining about the damn cellphone despite clearly seeing the instance in the film.**

I'm not sure whether this belongs here since it reeks of revisionism, or in the qtddtot thread, but am I crazy, or was the exile originally canonically male?

>>22393

>I'll never understand why they got so famous in the first place

Because the reviews were funny. Plinkett was intentionally overblown and obsessive, and Lucas is an autistic kid. It's always funny to laugh at an autistic kid, but people began to think RLM knew what the fuck they were talking about, which was a very wrong conclusion.

>>22397

Both pictures on the back of the box are male, so you may have a point. I never heard it was canonically female until quite a while later, but I didn't actively follow SW at the time.

>>22397

I remember the exile being male, too. I don't know exactly when the exile being female became a thing. Maybe when the old republic came out?

>>22393

They are film nerds. They review films and they reviewed the prequels on the basis they were failures as films. Not as Star Wars movies. They did it in a funny comedic way that normalnigger scum and hardcore nerds could relate to. Just my take on it anyway. I haven't watched much RLM content.

>>22397

I've heard others say that all the promotional material showed the Exile as male before my time so can't confirm, but whether he was male or female was kept mostly ambiguous until TOR came along, and they decided to make Revan male and Exile female for muh representation reasons.

>>22397

It was left up to the imagination until a couple of books fucked up. I can't remember if it was a Darth Bane novel by the lead kotor 1 writer referring to Revan as male or the essential droid companion book. Regardless of the book in question, people got pissed and the exile was made canon female to compensate, although it's also canon Handmaiden traveled with her which is impossible ingame without mods.

>>22397

I remembered the Exile being referred to as female as far back as 2007 or 2008. I also just checked Wookiepedia, and it said that the gender was canonized in the New Essential Guide to Droids in 2006 and re-affirmed in the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide in 2008. TOR just gave her a name.

They were referred to as male in early promotional material, but that wasn't official canon, same with the ending.

>>22314

I like the prequels better than the OT. They do a much better job of being visually interesting and having interesting models. I find the original cast to be bland and while I'm not keen on most of the prequel cast they're at least going interesting places.

It has nothing to do with nostalgia on my part. The prequels are just visually more interesting. Cloud city is the only thing that compares in the OT.

>>22391

That's the major issue here, RLM doesn't do reviews, it's not a fucking review when you come up with absolute bullshit for comedic effect.

>>22364

>His family were making use of what the land had to offer.

his family did, not him. luke whined about doing stupid chores because he had bigger ambitions in mind, not sticking around a farm for the rest of his life. owen and beru are the ones you have in mind, luke was never a farmer (it's literally in the dialogue).

>>22474

is this the autistic 108 page response to the plinkett review of phantom menace?

>>22402

>They are film nerds

they aren't film nerds in the slightest bit, they're blue-collar workers who sit down, have a beer, and talk about what they like/didn't like about a movie. these kind of people are at my job as well, the three of them would fit right in.

>>22397

>>22399

>>22400

>>22403

we've had this discussion in another thread before, there was never a canon form of the exile prior to some 2008 book or some shit, which declared the exile was female, and swtor went from this. ps the book was made by bioware.

but yes, all the promotional material and even the game itself gave off the impression of the male exile being the proper form.

>>22478

Not like its wrong.

>>22479

But they don't consider themselves that. They consider themselves pro's for doing shitty movie work in the past. The guys are hacks not just because of their SW shit, but look at any of their shit and any non-fanboy can realize that nothing these fucks say is worth a damn. I mean one of their key arguments against DC films was that nobody likes DC comic heroes because DC heroes look "ridiculous" then they bring up a picture of the MCU cast and then show a pic of the DC heroes with their golden age costumes on while completely disregarding that Marvel characters looked even more retarded than the heroes in DC back in the day. RLM's problem is they pretend like they know what they're talking about and make no attempt to let their audiences know that they're not professionals. Now you got a gaggle of fanboys who will defend them at the drop of a hat and claim that they are "pros" who know exactly what they're talking about. And I say this without even bringing up their bullshit commentary on the EU while nitpicking and incorrectly quoting lines from novels and comics to reinforce their own bullshit opinions, or the fact that they loved TFA for several reasons yet hated Rogue One for the same reasons they praised TFA. Hell that review alone made countless people and prequel haters just surrender to the Disney narrative.

>>22485

>Not like its wrong.

Aside from his butthurt over the rape jokes.

>>22474

tl;dr: The Phantom Menace has decent ideas with flaws in execution. that much I agree with.

>>22485

in regards to the dc bit, they're not wrong. the marvel films always did a better job at giving their heroes a realistic look, whereas dc would either go mech, tactical, or just look plain old stupid. on top of that, they're attempting a more serious tone with these goofy ass costumes now, whereas marvel is running purely with the stupidity, and the bright colorful suits work perfectly with it.

>>22517

>they're not wrong

Yes they are because as a comparison, they used a modern Marvel picture against an old DC comics page and implied that Marvel has always looked cooler, and go further by using an 80s Wolverine illustration and compare that to the original Green Lantern while completely ignoring how goofy and ridiculous Marvel comic heroes looked in their original designs while not using a single modern DC design for a comparison. Iron Man looked like completely shit in the 60s and nothing like he does now.

>>22518

and the green lantern looked just as gay and also was made literally gay, so what's your point?

>>22522

The point is, even if they're correct about the stylistic difference, the argument is made in very bad faith because of the disingenuous tactics they used.

>>22523

Finally, someone who can read.

>>22478

No more autistic than a 70 minute video review of a 9 year old (at the time) movie.

>108 pages

If that was submitted even at a high school level, it would get an F for page count. It's written in large font, has tons of pictures, and often changes to movie script format, which is very sparse. It's half that length at best on a pure word count.

>>22526

don't take it as me shitting on the guy, i'm actually glad he let his tism get to him to be the one to genuinely fight back against reddit letter memeia.

>>22523

ok but they're still technically right, they just did it in a shitty way. hell, they're practically politicians.

>>22527

I'm not, I just get a little touchy about it now that I actually read it. Definitely shorter and more thought out than anything Mike has worked on. I definitely agree with the politician angle, thinking back to when they mentioned it during their review of "The People vs. George Lucas". Make it sound like a ridiculously long winded rant by some angry fanboy, never address anything he wrote. It just drives me crazy when they default to shitting on people for being obese fanboys and never take a look in the mirror.

>>22208

>I've been into nerd shit since the early 90s. I remember Star wars being a flash in the pan where no one cared much about it.

>the early 90s

That was literally Star Wars' lowest point (popularity-wise). Star Wars was HUGE in the late 70s, obviously, and throughout the 80s. The biggest thing ever. But since the much talked about sequels never appeared by 1990 interest amogst the general public dipped a lot. Plus George Lucas got bashed a lot for Howard The Duck. (Even though he only produced it, not direct or write it.) Then he was busy with The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles.

>The special editions were announced and made out to be this huge deal. Star wars was going to be back in the cinemas again and it was SUPER HYPE EPIC. But very few people gave a shit. They did okay and the nerd crowd went. It wasn't anything big. It definitely wasn't a legendary return or anything like that.

That's not true at all. Cinemas were packed (the Special Editions, which were only shown for a limited period as far as I can remember, made around $250 million between them) and everybody was talking about Star Wars. Also George had already announced the prequels a couple of years earlier, those things are what brought it back into being big again, along with the completion of the Thrawn Trilogy and the Shadows Of The Empire multimedia event. Star Wars was everywhere around then.

>The story didn't matter, people went for the effects and to enjoy the universe/darth maul. People didn't bitch or say it was bad because it fulfilled it's goals as a 90 minute CGI fest

That's not true either, you didn't even get the running time correct, The Phantom Menace (like all the main Star Wars movies) was over 2 hours long. And, at the very least, Star Wars fans went for the story. Many wanted sequels instead of prequels, but I still loved them. Although Star Wars always had the best special effects and they were also A reason to watch it's the story that's key. It's why the new movies have failed (fan) critically. (Apart from Rogue One.) They haven't used George Lucas' stories and they've got so many things wrong. They still look good because of ILM and copying the film-making techniques of George's movies. Yet the fans aren't impressed by them as movies overall.

Also the prequels got bashed a lot, at least first by the critics then some fans, who were no doubt cheering in the cinema and saying how great they were after coming out of the cinema, who thought it was "cool" to bash The Phantom Menace then later the other prequels. I strongly suspect the bashing was started by Hollywood as they hated George Lucas for becoming a huge independent and not needing the big studios for anything except distribution and wanted his movies to fail.

Talking about prequel bashers, I remember coming out of the Star Wars Saga Marathon's showing of The Phantom Menace and hearing people saying things like that they forgot how good The Phantom Menace was and didn't know why they themselves had been bashing it for years.

Also, for those who still bash the prequels, I think I understand what George was doing with the prequels. And I at least part knew it before I saw The Phantom Menace and just saw early production shots. I'm pretty sure that he was making the movies as if they were made in the 1940s and 50s (i.e. the equivalent number of years before 1977 that the movies were set in before A New Hope). And he was using knight-based movies from that era, along with the even earlier Flash Gordon & Buck Rogers serials, as inspiration. So that it was as if the prequels were made back then, but with modern technology like CGI. Seriously, go and watch movies like Knights Of The Round Table (1953), The Black Shield Of Falworth (1954) or Disney's (live-action, not the Robin Hood cartoon) The Story Of Robin Hood And His Merrie Men (1952 and interestingly direct by a man called Ken Annakin!). You should get a feel of the similar style, including acting, that they have to the prequels. Although the prequels also have the unmistakable style of Star Wars too.

>>22529

This guy's right on the money.

I remember Star Wars becoming huge in the late 90s, I distinctly remember buying a special issue of a gaming magazine that was all about current Star Wars games. It even came with a CD full of demos for contemporary Star Wars games, like Jedi Knight, Mysteries of the Sith, Rogue Squadron, or Shadows of the Empire.

I think the time right after the special editions came out, roughly between 1997 and 2000 was when Star Wars was most popular. After that, the hype kinda died down because The Phantom Menace left a lot of people unsatisfied, that's what I think.

>>22547

>After that, the hype kinda died down because The Phantom Menace left a lot of people unsatisfied, that's what I think.

I'd disagree that the hype died down. It seemed maintained throughout the 2000s without stopping at al. Unless you count The Clone Wars movie flopping, but I'm very suspicious about its box office numbers. How can the movie flop then just a couple of months later the TV show has record viewing figures? I could understand the movie not being quite as popular as the numbered live-action movies as it was a pilot for a TV show and not quite a proper all-in-one movie that the live-action ones were. But actually flopping, as in worse than Solo flopping? I don't believe that for a second. I think Warner Brothers fudged the numbers so that they didn't have to pay certain people extra who had a deal for a percentage of the gross. Like when Lucasfilm didn't pay Dave Prowse properly because they claimed (to him) that Return Of The Jedi didn't make any profit, after he had made a deal for a small percentage of the gross.

https://www.slashfilm.com/lucasfilm-tells-darth-vader-that-return-of-the-jedi-hasnt-made-a-profit/

>>22612

Even though it made its production costs back, probably made its marketing costs back and possibly made a profit too, it flopped compared to other Star Wars movies. Not many people went to see it compared to the other movies.

>>22614

if a movie makes 8 times its budget, it's not a flop.

>>22612

>>22614

I never knew that one was even offered in theaters. Are there any DVD metrics?

>>22615

People didn't research its budget before deciding whether to go or not. It was a Star Wars movie, not a no-name low budget indie movie, that alone should have brought at least as many ticket sales as Solo. But like I said, I don't believe the numbers, I think somehow they were fixed.

>>22617

It looked like shit and was directed by a retard, why would people go see it?

>>22616

According to this site, the home video release made around thirty-million in the United States.

https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Star-Wars-The-Clone-Wars#tab=summary

http://archive.is/f55Qi

I actually remember being pretty excited to see it. It seems like it actually had more hype than Episode 7 did before it released, given people showed up in costume to the TCW film but not to the Disney Wars movies. though that could be because I watched TFA at the local theater, and TCW at one in a bigger city I'll never forget the time I ended up sat next to drunk Darth Vader. I wonder if the cosplayers were part of the local 501st?

>>22614

>it flopped compared to other Star Wars movies

it was clearly a low-risk film. if i'm doing the math right going by current year calculations, the film would only have to make about $34 million tops to have marketing and production covered, anything after that is profit. it's not a lot of profit, sure, but it's still profit and technically not a flop. combine that with the home video sales and you've got a mildly successful film.

>>22651

I'm talking about the number of people who showed up at the cinema, not the amount of money it made. Although, like I said, I think more people showed up at the cinema than Warner Brothers was claiming, for some reason. I refuse to believe that a Star Wars movie, even if it was just a TV pilot made on a lower budget, didn't make at least $100 million in the USA alone, let alone worldwide. Especially when people were massively hyped to see it, as the viewing figures for the TV show demostrated.

>>22653

ok, you're probably right in that aspect. but again, this wasn't a major star wars film, and it was basically three episodes put together iirc. also i believe the animation is what kept most people away, as they felt it was more geared towards kids and not general audiences.

>>22656

But, especially at the time, CGI animated movies were popular. In fact if there was one problem with The Clone Wars is that it wasn't released in 3D, which is what every CGI movie at the time was. I know people will probably say "there wasn't time to make it 3D", but with CGI movies wouldn't they just have to re-render it in 3D after they made the movie? Rather than converting it in the way 2D live-action movies need converting to 3D.

>>22658

it was in 2008, the 3d gimmick started 2009.

>>22659

No, modern 3D movies (in all cinemas, not just IMAX) started in 2003 with Spy Kids 3D and even more mainstream in 2004 with The Polar Express. 2009 was just a particular big year for 3D because Avatar was released. In fact it was more 2010 that was the big year since Avatar was released at the end of 2009.

>>22659

I just looked it up and The Clone Wars was released a month after Journey To The Center Of The Earth 3D, which was a prominent and reasonably successful 3D movie (which was heavily marketed as a 3D movie, not just a movie that was also available in 3D) even though it wasn't that great.

>>22660

spy kids 3d was one of the last few films to use actual 3d, not the gimmicky oversold ticket price 3d

>>22663

No it wasn't, there were loads of movies since then that actually filmed in 3D (or in CGI cartoons' case rendered in stereoscopic 3D) rather than converted from 3D. James Cameron was right though, 2D converted movies messed everything up. Except for special circumstances (converting classic movies) all 3D movies should have been filmed in 3D.

>>22665

>rather than converted from 3D

*2D

>>22391

Yep, I can remember Prequel hate before Episode 2 even came out. One point of praise for Episode 2 was that Jar Jar was barely in it.

Also there was this British proto-Big Bang Theory called Spaced Out or something, which came out around 2000 and had a scene where a guy quit his job because he disagreed with his boss on wether TPM was good or not.

>>22589

Look at the drop. TPM made a little over a billion dollars on a budget of 115 million. AotC made a little over half of that on the same budget. Also, look at the merchandise. Episode I was everywhere when it came out, there was an insane amount of toys that I can only compare to TFA. When Episode II rolled around it wasn't nearly as huge.

The prequel hate is absolutely not gaslighting. I was in elementary school when TPM came out and I distinctly remember being in a K&B toys and seeing some manchild fatbeard insulting an actual child for wanting a Darth Maul figurine and thinking he was cool instead of insulting pandering.

>>22529

I don't think Hollywood started a secret sabotage campaign against GL, but I do think not being a member of the club meant he wasn't going to get access to their spin machine resources. It's a similar case with Tyler Perry. I don't like his movies but I begrudgingly respect him for telling Big Film to fuck themselves and making it on his own. Notably he's pretty much the only black creative who white people are allowed to chastise for playing off negro stereotypes without being harangued for whitesplaining to a minority with a lived experience or some shit like that. His work is lambasted along grounds that gets a pass or justification by any other black writer or director in with the Hollywood clique.

>>22697

Said fatbeard would probably defend the Disney Trilogy.

>>22691

The Phantom Menace actually made just under a billion dollars on its first run, it's now over a billion because of the re-releases including the 3D version. The Attack Of The Clones box office drop was because of all the (unjustified) Phantom Menace hate and general prequel hate in the media. Also, unlike with Disney's movies the hate came from the MSM before (some of) the fans. The box office went back up a lot for Revenge Of The Sith. Well, in fact with the Disney movies there isn't really any hate from the MSM, they're all praising them and attacking the fans. And there was loads of merchandise for all the prequels, but unlike the sequels it actually sold.

>>22713

>The Phantom Menace actually made just under a billion dollars on its first run

Doesn't really matter, Episode II still made far less.

>The Attack Of The Clones box office drop was because of all the (unjustified) Phantom Menace hate and general prequel hate in the media.

So people did hate TPM? Because that's exactly what I said. And I don't really recall the media hating on the movies, TPM just got a bunch of bad reviews. I wouldn't call that "hate". Even so, I think you overestimate the influence of the media. Look at Fembusters, which got praised into high heavens and still failed at the box office. Word of mouth is far more important.

>And there was loads of merchandise for all the prequels, but unlike the sequels it actually sold.

I dunno, maybe it was different in America, but here in Europe, they slapped Episode I on literally anything in a way that I can only compare to TFA. After the movie fell a bit flat, they dialed it back a lot for Episode II.

The entire prequel situation actually can be compared to the sequels pretty well. When TFA came out it was the biggest thing ever, kinda like when Episode I came out. The difference is that TFA did a much better job keeping the hype going, despite not being a good movie.

>>22732

No, it was definitely the same in the US. I was only 8 when Episode I came out, but I distinctly remember how much branded shit there was for that movie. So many toys of so much inane crap. I also remember the Episode I branded cans of Pepsi, Diet Pepsi, and Mountain Dew as collector's items; we had about a dozen of them around here for well over a decade until my dad finally decided to toss them in the recycling because none of us really wanted them anymore. We didn't lose out on much, complete sets only go for maybe $30 at most and we didn't even have that many. The branding push wasn't nearly as strong for the subsequent prequels.

I'd also argue that TFA didn't do that good a job overall in the hype department, at least long-term. Yeah, in comparison to the utter deflation after TPM, I suppose it did alright, but it was only coasting off of "REMEMBER [x]" and "at least it's not like the prequels!" Once that wore off, I think at least a chunk of the fanbase started to realize just how soulless it felt in comparison to the OT, even the PT at times. Hell, there's a reason prequel memes are still going strong, while nobody's cracking any sort of jokes about the sequels. There's really nothing entertaining or lasting about Disney Wars, and I hope that TLJ really did cause a lot of people to wake up and realize just how awful these movies truly are. Optimistic, I know, but a man can dream.

>>22732

>And I don't really recall the media hating on the movies, TPM just got a bunch of bad reviews. I wouldn't call that "hate".

https://ew.com/article/1999/05/12/phantom-menace-backlash-has-begun/

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/cinema-its-lucas-whos-the-real-menace-1107099.html

https://www.theguardian.com/film/1999/jul/16/11

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/movies/reviews/phantommenacekempley.htm

http://nymag.com/nymetro/movies/reviews/64/

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1999/05/24/star-bores

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/1999/06/janet-maslin.html

Then there were the numerous articles talking about how "racist" it was.

>Even so, I think you overestimate the influence of the media. Look at Fembusters, which got praised into high heavens and still failed at the box office. Word of mouth is far more important.

The internet is much bigger now and many people know the new Ghostbusters was just made for feminist propaganda. It flopped because of that and because us fans wanted a sequel with the original Ghostbusters. So regardless of the quality of the movie it was likely to fail. I still haven't got around to watching it myself.

>>22732

>I dunno, maybe it was different in America

I'm from England. Attack Of The Clones stuff was everywhere. Yes, there was even more of a marketing push for The Phantom Menace but that was expected as it was the start of a new trilogy of Star Wars movies. In fact there may have been even more hype here in England than other countries since Attack Of The Clones (and the other prequels) was mostly made here. The only other major location for it was Lake Como in Italy.

>>22734

Well, I said that the movie got a bunch of bad reviews, and you posted a bunch of bad reviews. I still think that many people had their own grievances without the need for some sort of media smear campaign.

>In fact there may have been even more hype here in England than other countries since Attack Of The Clones (and the other prequels) was mostly made here

That may be it.

>>22732

>Doesn't really matter, Episode II still made far less.

not as much of a drop from 7 to RO to 8 to Soylo though. not only that, but revenge of the sith outgrossed attack of the clones. 9 will struggle to reach 1 billion.

>>22732

>The difference is that TFA did a much better job keeping the hype going, despite not being a good movie.

wut

>>22747

>wut

I think he means that it didn't massacre the franchise's profitability like TLJ did. TFA, while bad, was not hated by the normalnigger masses (at least at the time, many seem disillusioned about it now).

I liked certain aspects of the prequels because they give some context to the original movies.

Like how vader turned evil cos of that princess that he wanted to fugg but his attempt to protect her ended up getting her killed.

>>22748

there was far more of a split in the fanbase with TFA than there was TPM

>>22750

That's true; didn't read the full text you replied to.

>>22748

Pretty much.

>>22750

I'll try to clarify; I think TPM disillusioned a lot more people than TFA did. In general, people weren't really looking forward to Episode II if my memory doesn't fail me, whereas there was a lot of hype for TLJ carried over from TFA. Of course, that crashed and burned as soon as people saw the movie. Also, I'm not strictly talking about the fanbase, but normalfags as well.

>>22752

again fellow sheevposter, you are incorrect. more people were willing to give AOTC a chance since they knew less jar jar would be in it, whereas the only hype for TLJ was the fact that it wasn't JJ Abrams directing. also AOTC had better trailers, TLJ's were a resounding meh, and i got that reaction from people who liked TFA.

>>22752

>>22753

I don't recall much marketing hype for AotC (at least with regard to trailers), while a zillion dollars were spent on TFA hype. Perhaps this is the root of it, and not an actual fanbase bleedoff.

>>22754

TFA was the start of a new trilogy AOTC was the middle of one. Also, Disney had just spent $4 billion to buy Lucasfilm so they had to make damn sure TFA not only wouldn't flop (not that it was likely to) but was a big success.

>>22745

>Well, I said that the movie got a bunch of bad reviews, and you posted a bunch of bad reviews.

I posted some of the reviews that were particularly hateful, rather than just bad reviews. Just look at the Independent's headline. "It's Lucas Who's The Real Menace." And this quote from it:

>From the ridiculous title, with those two M's gummily stuck together in the middle, to the uniformly atrocious performances, from the incomprehensible plot to the sluggish pacing, The Phantom Menace is an unsalvageable disaster, of interest only - to anyone over the age of eight - as a documentary on its director's mindset. For it's frighteningly obvious that, if he himself hadn't made it, George Lucas would have been one of those pathetic nerds seen on television queueing up for days in advance to purchase a ticket.

And Slate's article was entirely attacking another reviewer for giving it a good review.

>>22754

>(at least with regard to trailers)

you kidding me m8? half the cast had character trailers for the movie, in addition to the theatrical trailers and tv teasers. the last jedi had two or three theatricals and tv spots.

>>22761

and The Farce Awakens was the same, three theatricals and tv spots.

AotC arguably made the most money of the series if you count merchandise and spinoffs. For all the talk of the 'trainwreck' they got shit-tons more money out of Dooku and clones than they did from Phasma or that little orange chink.

>>22765

People talk about George Lucas just trying to sell toys but Captain Phasma was clearly just designed to do that and have a highly visible (her suit at least) "stronk womxn" in the First Order. All the hype she got and they didn't bother giving her hardly any story. (I'm sure there's probably a book or at least comic about her, but I don't care about that as I'm talking about the movies.) People trying to defend that usually bring up Boba Fett, but his popularity was more organic. The fans hyped him up more than the marketing did. I can't remember whether he was even in the original trailer (proper trailer, he obviously wasn't in the teaser) for The Empire Strikes Back.

>>22768

She has a book. Its generic as shit though.

>>22768

I don't get why selling toys is a bad thing. Selling shitty toys is a bad thing.

>>22772

It's not unless the narrative suffers for it. Like, putting useless characters in the movie simply to be able to sell toys based on them. Like Phasma.

>>22773

It took me some thinking as to why Boba Fett worked and Captain Feminist didn't. It's not just that Disney was trying real hard to force a Super Memorable Character™ that didn't catch on, it's that they shot themselves in the foot while attempting to do so.

Look at Boba Fett. He has barely any presence in Empire, just one of several bounty hunters that Vader hired to track down Han and the gang. Sure, he's got cool armor and all, but he doesn't do a whole lot over the course of the movie. Yet what he does is still significant to the plot: he tracks down the Falcon to Cloud City, then manages to escape with carbonite-encased Han before any of the good guys can catch up. Above all, he does all this with an unfaltering attitude, a demeanor that informs the audience that he's not to be fucked with. This translates into the mind of the audience (especially kids) as "holy shit this guy is cool," hence all the sales of Boba Fett merch.

Now compare and contrast with Phasma. Like Boba, she has a distinctive appearance, albeit less so; as opposed to the Mandalorian armor that was unlike anything yet seen in Star Wars, silver stormtrooper armor is unique, but less interesting visually. Also like Boba, she has very little presence in TFA. And while it can be said that she had an action that was significant to the plot (lowering the shields), that wasn't her own action really, merely being forced to do so at gunpoint. Other than that, nothing of note. And to top it off, the last we hear of her is when she gets shoved into a trash compacter. Obviously she escaped so she could drop the ball again in TLJ, but based off of TFA alone, she's a do-nothing character that meets a laughably stupid end, nothing more than a punchline. To the mind of the audience, that doesn't scream cool, it screams "jesus christ how embarrassing."

And that's why Phasma merch doesn't sell.

>>22778

That sounds pretty spot on. I think that's also why TR-8R caught on a lot more despite being just a random Stormtrooper, contrary to Phasma he actually did something, even if it was totally inconsequential.

>>22779

Sorry, couldn't delete my post.

>he actually did something

*he actually did something that was kinda cool

>>22778

There's a sentimental component of it too touched on by Jedi filth >>22768 here.

Looking at them isolated in their contemporary bubbles, I don't see Boba Fett as having any more objective narrative reason to blow up in popularity as Phasma. The rub of it is that Kennedy saw the concepts for Phasma and had one of those "genius" ideas that the managerial caste in entertainment get that she could be manufactured into The New Fett. It's very obvious what they're trying to do with her and lots of people just viscerally resent being pandered to like that. Boba Fett became something because the fans let their imagination go crazy and Lucas licensed Star Wars to people willing to give life to that who shared the same interest. Phasma's hype was an inept and lazy attempt at meme magic which was hilariously undermined by how she was fleshed out. Even in the comic and novel where she is given the spotlight, they only serve to make her look like a cynical coward.

>>22785

this

>>22778

>And while it can be said that she had an action that was significant to the plot (lowering the shields), that wasn't her own action really, merely being forced to do so at gunpoint.

so her contribution was being coerced to betray her faction, which is yet another reason Phasma is a lame character. a cool character would've made a last stand and sacrificed themselves to keep the shields up.

there's also no in-universe reason to make a stormtrooper leader a woman, but we all know why they did that.

>>22768

>stronk womxn

>gives into demands of terrorists

>gets literally thrown into the trash

>loses in a fight with dindu

>cape and armor have more personality than she does

you know, for attempting to give women a presence they did a terrible job. like what the fuck jj and rian, i thought women were supposed to be the competent ones in this trilogy. also inb4 someone says this is secret proof of jj and rian being our guys or some shit, it just proves their incompetence even more.

>>22780

>>22781

>>22785

>>22786

apparently phasma was supposed to be in the tr8t0r fight, not the stormtrooper with the riot shield. idk why they replaced her with a generic but it happened, and then we got the stupid fight in the last cuck.

also, in the lego farce engorges game there's a captain phasma level with tr8t0r as her companion, that level is the only phasma content that has actual substance to it.

>>22785

>I don't see Boba Fett as having any more objective narrative reason to blow up in popularity as Phasma

I see it as one having more room for the imagination to build upon than the other.

With Boba Fett we saw that he was a bounty hunter who GetsTheJobDone™, likes disintegration, and Vader knows him at a seemingly personal level. Given that it's the Star Wars universe, this guy must be swooping around the place doing all kinds of shit with all that gear he's wearing, and god only knows what his past with Vader was. The movie only gives us a small glimpse, bit the tiny shred we see is amazing, so our brain fills in the gaps with other amazing assumptions because patterns.

Phasma was, first of all, openly advertised as a token stronk womyn ahead of time. We all knew who was under the mask, and the character… follows orders? And poorly at that. What we see is a failure who only acted tough until pressure comes around. Our "glimpse" is not amazing in the slightest and in fact cowardly/inconsistent, so how could anybody possibly fill in the gaps with amazing scenarios, or assumptions of a thrilling past? Nobody.

And that's why Phasma failed and Boba Fett is cool.

>>22805

Read what I said again. Unique to stormtroopers, and also unique in the movies. Most people only watch the movies, so Phasma would be the only silver character they knew about, except maybe that one protocol droid in Episode I and that other one in Episode IV. Still, armor != droids.

>>22805

>no cosplayer has made this outfit

This world is truly hell.

>>22785

>Even in the comic and novel where she is given the spotlight, they only serve to make her look like a cynical coward.

I think Phasma is best explained as 100% a political creation and therefore having to fulfill contradictions based on political commandments that needed to be satisfied. They wanted a female villain, but she could NOT be sexualized and had to be androgynous, and had to be a leader to prove womxn could lead. But in so doing they accidentally made the first order not be sexist, and they don't want little girls pretending to be in the first order. So they made Phasma a cowardly loon.

Boba Fett on the other hand is his own boss, wants payment, is shown to be clever enough to track Han Solo, and talks back to Vader without getting choked. Subtle things make him respected and the message of his portrayal in Empire is as a lethal bounty hunter.

One character is there to check checkboxes and the other is there to create a compelling roleplay experience. Everybody can see the appeal of being Boba Fett. There's no appeal to being Phasma.

>>22798

>idk why they replaced her with a generic

Because for all the talk about stronk womyn, the actress couldn't physically perform the choreography for that scene, so they had an extra do it.

>>22817

that's bullshit, they had phasma fight in the last cunt, they could have easily gotten a stuntman in the first movie too.

>22818

>>they had phasma fight in the last cunt

For about one second.

>>22813

None of the first order are allowed to be truly competent, because then people might like or respect the cardboard cut outs of "Nazis", and that's not how propaganda works. The enemy has to be very evil, but weak and ridiculous, and fall down when the hero hits them.

Disneywars is not Star Wars. It's Popeye the Sailor.

>>22819

15 seconds not including finn's back to the future homage

>>22589

No one knew the clone wars movie was coming out but the TV series had a core market who were already there to see it.

>>24201

If i were you i wouldn't go down that path because there is no turning back… soon you will be trying to figure how the Empire would lost to some stupid teddy bears with stubby legs and fingers and a commando group of less than 50 troops. Don't even want to start about the space battles and loss of the Death Stars.

>>24218

Meh. If anything, the sequels are so terrible they have made me love all of the old stuff even more. Heck even the Ewoks cartoon looks great (at least its first season).

>>22854

The core market was definitely there for the movie, no one talks about it because the TV show completely overshadowed in terms of both quality and popularity. Not that the move was a failure by any means though. A return of $65 million or so is amazing for the budget it had.

Having people show up in clone armor to the movie was pretty great too. until I ended up seated next to drunken Darth Vader and he puked on the seats

>>24222

Were you a guy dressed as Kenobi in his general armor? I saw that happen to someone in the theater but the guy who puked was only wearing a Vader helmet.

>>24225

no.I was ten years old at the time, and I didn't go in costume

>>24218

Maybe you need to heal a bit. Bitterness isn't healthy, to be blunt and speaking from experience.

>>24219

This. Even the Hapans look mild compared to the ideological failures running rampant in the present.

>>24236

>Maybe you need to heal a bit.

Blogpost inbound

I'm reading some Nietzsche right now and trying to figure shit out but overall I think it's something I need to deal with on my own and overcome by myself. I have 0 motivation in school and am completely apathetic to not finishing an assignment and in fact I should be doing one right now. I talked to a study guide here because I hardly do any school work and dropped classes already to have an easier first semester but I still haven't changed. Even playing vidya feels like a chore now, I just finished replying KoTOR and am on TSL now and it's hard to stay focused on the game without doing other pointless shit at the same time just to be double distracted. It's not all the time but when it comes everything is a chore. Sorry for the awful post.

>>24219

>Meh. If anything, the sequels are so terrible they have made me love all of the old stuff even more.

I've only seen the farce awakens and Soylo and really have no desire to watch the others, I always liked the PT anyways because I was young when I saw them and didn't see anything wrong with them back then. Of course they're not perfect but I think they're sort of nostalgia shielded a bit for me so I can't ever say they're bad. I still remember my dad taking me to see RoTS when I was in grade 1 and we went to 3 theaters that were all sold out before we ended up driving into the city to find one that had seats. Though I'm sure if I was the same age as I was when I saw the farce awakens then I probably would be an OT puristfag.

>>24253

I rewatched Episode 1 recently. Some scenes have aged like dirt, others have aged like wine. Naboo's government is still pretty retarded but the setting and politics are really immersive and I actually enjoy the gungans and Jar Jar now (although his antics on Tatooine are really forced and unamusing). But the scenes that have truly aged like gold are the fight scenes, the podrace, character interactions and all of Tatooine, except for Jar Jar's scenes there and the midochlorian scene of course. Although, the way Qui Gon describes the midochlorians is not as anger inducing as I remember. Rather than the midos actually being the Force, he tells Anakin that they are telling him the "will of the Force" thus serving as the link between the physical and the spiritual. Still horribly unneeded and stupid, but not as terrible or lore-breaking as I remember. Episode II has aged better for the most part except Boba's scenes which are all shit. Jango Fett was great up until the Geonosis. Geonosis feels like the point where shit hits the fan. Regardless, the only thing that still irks me a bit was how the clones were used by the good guys instead of the bad guys, but the lore that came because of it pays off, and it helps that in the comics the CIS did try to make their own clone army using a nikto warrior as a template, and that was cool.

ROTS has aged pretty well in many regards except the ending and Dooku's demise. Overall, the prequels are still okay films filled with the same originality and creativity as the OT as well as more heart, which is far more than can be said about the Disney trilogy.

>>24255

>the only thing that still irks me a bit was how the clones were used by the good guys instead of the bad guys

Same here.

>You're creating thousands of human clones whose only purpose is to be soldiers so many are guaranteed to be killed in battle? Sure, us Jedi have absolutely no ethical problem with that whatsoever. In fact many of us will be generals and command them.

>>24270

I saw it more of the Jedi being backed into a corner and they really have no choice in the matter. They either go to war with the army they have, or let the Separatists (being led by a fallen Jedi acting as Sith) destroy the Republic in an instant. They had no time to realistically pursue other options, it was a do or die decision right there, which is why Sheev set it up to play out that way.

>>24561

Yeah, but they could have at least talked about it. The only issue they had at all was about there being a Republic army, rather than just using all the different planets' armies, not the ethics of cloning people solely for use as expendable soldiers.

>>22397

It was intentionally kept vague. No one was ever suppose to know anything about Revan or the Exile aside from the most broad strokes. Since Revan was suppose to be You! and the Exile was also you.

>>22403

>and they decided to make Revan male and Exile female for muh representation reasons.

This was sort of true, it was more for editorial reasons. According to one of those random behind the scenes books. Revan and Exile don't really have any differentiating characteristics aside from one going back to face judgment, and the other continuing on to exact judgment. So any differences helped. Although I think Keria and Exile's interactions work better with female Exile, at least from Keria's angle.

>>24640

Considering the clones all knew this too, did they really need a chip for order 66?

>>24754

>Considering the clones all knew this too, did they really need a chip for order 66?

Yes, because they were indoctrinated to fight for and be loyal to the Republic. The Order 66 chip "reprogrammed" them to fight for and be loyal to Palpatine once the order was given.

>>24849

>>24754

The chip is the stupidest fucking thing ever. It should be enough for clones to have a biological or psychologically imprinted "backdoor" that triggers given certain commands. The chip is a hamfisted answer to a question that shouldn't exist.

>>24878

If you really wanted to salvage it, you could make it so the brain chips were a hackjob fix to certain batchs of clones where the genetically engineered loyalty was faulty. As to why the Kaminoans didn't instantly abort/sterilize the defective clones and reconstitute them into ration cubes- the answer is simple, Jedi meddling, If they're forced to keep the clones where the engineered loyalty isn't going to work properly, they might as well throw a few bandages on it to try and correct the defects.

>>24849

But that falls apart when you realize that Palpatine IS the Republic in the end. The clones are loyal to the Republic and the Chancellor. Palpatine is , quite literally, the senate. Like poetry, it sort of rhymes.

>>24880

It doesn't fall apart because they were clones, not robots. If Palpatine had just said "OK guys, I know you're working with the Jedi, but now I want to kill them and obey every other order I give without question." then the clones would all be like "This doesn't make sense. Why should we kill the Jedis we're working with? And this guy sounds like a crazy dictator, not a benevolent Supreme Chancellor. Has the Senate voted on this?" etc. The chip obviously takes away their reasoning (other than the ability to create military tactics and even then that may have only been aloud for a few of them) and ability to disobey orders and turns them into basically biological robots

>>24879

Were the Kaminoans in on Palpatine's plan? I can't remember. If not they were probably just told that the chips were some kind of enhancement or kept the clones stable in battle or something.

>>24897

>all of this

No. They followed orders from the man who was the embodiment of everything they fought for. On hearing Order 66, they knew that the Jedi had tried to do something to that man. They acted as their training and indoctrination would have them do. Simple as that. Make no excuses for them. They did their job well.

>>24899

My impression was that the Kaminoians were not integrated into the Republic, and that their existence was not widely known. I always thought they were an insular society of highly specialized and skilled genetic scientists who offered their services for the right price. I never got the idea that they were aware of, or cared about, the political realities of the Republic. They certainly had very little in the way of moral scruples, as they created an army of developmentally-accelerated, combat-imprinted soldiers in exchange for money - and treated it nothing more than an unusually large order.

>>24899

I think Palpatine was directly involved with some aspects of the clone army for sure. Especially considering it was Dooku that hired Jango to be the genetic template for the cloning process. What books/comics would I have to read to get more information on that?

>>24899

Their scenes in the movies seemed to imply they did not know the grand plan and/or did not care to know. Their scenes in that clone wars disney show seemed to indicate they knew something and were actively trying to cover up the super secret brainfuck chip.

>>24900

This is actually what I as getting at. For fuck's sake, clones will yell out "FOR THE CHANCELLOR" during gameplay. These guys were trained by Mandolorians so of course they'll take any chance to knock the Jedi down a few pegs.

>>24900

That's not the issue, what makes it bad was the implementation, specially in the movies.

The clones were doing in their business and suddenly a hooded mistery guy with a ballsack face comes and say "The time has come, execute order 66". No clone asked for a sec "Who is this guy? He's not the fucking Chancellor, we all know his face and it's not a scrotum"

>the time has come

That implies that it was a planned event, a conspiracy if you will, and that the clones were fully aware of it. And them the clones go with "it will be done, my lord"

>my lord

Not "yes sir", "yes your Excellency/Honor" which would imply that it was the Supreme Chancellor and not Evil Ballsack Face Dark Lord as their boss.

If Lucas spend just a few more minutes with the clones arguing and double checking their order, or somebody else like Mas Amedda relaying the order with some explanation as "The jedi just attempted a coup, they managed to harm the Chancellor"

>>24879

Obviously Palpatine was involved with the clones, I was asking if the Kaminoans knew if he was involved (or at least knew Darth Sidious was involved, if they didn't know he was Palpatine) and knew what his ultimate plan for them was.

>>24918

>If Lucas spend just a few more minutes with the clones arguing and double checking their order, or somebody else like Mas Amedda relaying the order with some explanation as "The jedi just attempted a coup, they managed to harm the Chancellor"

He doesn't have to do that because the chip "reprogrammed" them, like I said. He obviously found it hard to get the chip explanation into Episode 2 or 3 (more likely 3, so as not to spoil what was going to happen) which is why he put it in The Clone Wars show instead.

>>24910

>Their scenes in that clone wars disney show

The Clone Wars was made by the proper Lucasfilm, years before it was sold to Disney (although they're now going to make the previously planned new episodes to finish the show. I hope they stick to the original scripts/story and not do what they've done with the sequels!) and broadcast on Cartoon Network which is owned by Warner Bros.

>>24951

I believe they likely knew something. You don't engineer loyalty into millions of clones and brainwash/implant loyalty chips into them without knowing who wants you to do that and who you're making them loyal to. I'd imagine that's part of the reason why all info on Kamino got purged from the temple library. Palps didn't want the Jedi to suspect he had a hand in the creation of the army.

Of course, this is all speculation on my part, as I haven't read the comic or novels that detail the events behind the clone army.

>>24953

There's no doubt it was a cop-out, but there is at least a way they can salvage it in a way where that isn't the case. I have my doubts they would have the balls to actually do so however. I guess that's something I can put in separatist canon if we decide to keep TCW continuity.

>>24954

>There's no doubt it was a cop-out, but there is at least a way they can salvage it in a way where that isn't the case. I have my doubts they would have the balls to actually do so however. I guess that's something I can put in separatist canon if we decide to keep TCW continuity.

Wait, the wiki's up?

>>24959

The waiting period for the miraheze URL is over, all we need to do now is start importing the content. Once Givinfag makes his return of course.

>>24953

If the clones were just pretending to be good guys and Order 66 was literally just an order to execute a plan they'd consciously known about the whole time then there would have been a risk that some Jedi may have sensed something wrong with the clones from the start. Whereas with a chip there's no way for any Jedi to sense what was going to happen. Look at Yoda in Revenge Of The Sith. As soon as the clones turned bad he sensed it and it saved his life. If they were bad all along he would have sensed they were bad all along.

>>24979

The clones wouldn't be thinking about it though. To them, an order is an order. Do soldiers think about the possibility that they may need to purge their COs? No. Then why the fuck would the clones be constantly thinking about purging traitorous Jedi? Hell, they don't think twice about purging traitors among their own ranks.

Order 66: In the event of Jedi officers acting against the interests of the Republic, and after receiving specific orders verified as coming directly from the Supreme Commander (Chancellor), GAR commanders will remove those officers by lethal force, and command of the GAR will revert to the Supreme Commander (Chancellor) until a new command structure is established.

It's not a conspiracy, it's a fail-safe. To a clone, it's more about keeping the interests of the Republic safe rather than that of the Jedi.

>>24980

They were fighting alongside the Jedi for 3 years. Don't you think at least some of them would think "Something isn't right here, the Jedi aren't bad guys."? Not only that but Order 66 was given by Palpatine as Darth Sidious, NOT as Supreme Chancellor Palpatine. Wouldn't they wonder why a Sith is giving them orders? In fact wouldn't they ignore it since they know the Sith are the bad guys in control of the forces they were fighting? Plus the clones didn't turn on Anakin, they followed him. How would they know he wasn't a Jedi anymore and if they knew he had become a Sith why didn't they kill him for the same reason I gave above? So the chip wasn't a cop-out, it was the only logical explanation other than maybe brainwashing them to turn bad when they were given Order 66. But the chip obviously ensured that they couldn't "break the conditioning", or at least the vast majority of them.

By the way, it's possible that it wasn't going to be a chip back in the 70s when George Lucas originally conceived of the clones and something else was going to happen. Because I think he was actually inspired by Robocop. Remember the secret Fourth Directive that Robocop was programmed with? (To not harm or arrest anyone from OCP.) I think George saw that and came up with the idea for the chip programmed with Order 66.

>>25506

>The disfigurement that came from revealing his true dark side nature could be written off as scars from the Jedi attack.

Watch the scene again. He's in his black Sith robe with the hood up. He was being Darth Sidious in that scene not Supreme Chancellor Palpatine. Also the clones didn't even know he had been disfigured or that his voice had changed. He just gave them Order 66.

>The brain chips were an act of cowardice on the part of Filoni and may of the Disney execs.

The episodes were made before the Disney sale and George Lucas supervised everything in The Clone Wars show because it was proper canon the same as the movies. Dave Filoni couldn't put anything in the show that George didn't OK. In fact he even in Rebels after George left he would still OK things with him even though he legally didn't have to. (Although I'm sure he didn't do that for everything in Rebels. There was probably stuff Disney & Kathleen Kennedy waned in it.) For example he OK'd putting Thrawn in Rebels with George. The only thing George asked him not to do was include his ysalamiri (but compromised on representing them via the sculptures) as he didn't like the idea of creatures that could repel the Force. (Which is odd since the Force didn't work on Watto. Although not repelling it beyond his own body, that's still repelling it a bit.)

>Like most things in TCW, it was dumbed down for a new audience who couldn't handle their fan favorite Rex or Captain Yiff shooting their Torguta waifu in the back of the head.

All of The Clone Wars episodes show took place before Revenge Of The Sith, so therefore before Order 66. Apparently some of the new season will take place after. Hopefully the new season will stick to the original scripts and not add stuff for Disney/Kennedy. Also I thought The Clone Wars was pretty hardcore for a children's show. They showed headshots (admittedly on helmeted characters) and lightsaber impalements.

The fact is even though Palpatine was incredibly powerful there's no way that he could have "cloaked" all the clones when they were fighting all over the galaxy. The Jedi would have sensed that they were secretly bad guys from the start if they had been secretly bad guys from the start. Again, watch the clip with Yoda, he instantly sensed when they turned bad.

Before Revenge Of The Sith came out I actually thought that maybe Palpatine had secretly created a separate army of clones that were the stormtroopers and that the Clone Wars were going to literally be a clones vs clones war. The reason I thought this was because I had known the stormtroopers were originally clones since whenever I could first read (I started primary school in 1981, so around then maybe?) because George had revealed that in an interview in a Star Wars magazine. I think it might have been special magazine from the cinema or something. When I say magazine it wasn't a proper magazine, it was something that folded out into a poster (of Chewbacca I think?).

I also remember reading in that or a similar magazine about Darth Vader being a cyborg due to fighting Obi Wan on a volcano long before it was even mentioned in the Return Of The Jedi novel. (I think it was in the original script too, possibly even filmed. As in Obi Wan telling Luke, not a flashback of the actual event.)

>>25521

>The fact is even though Palpatine was incredibly powerful there's no way that he could have "cloaked" all the clones when they were fighting all over the galaxy.

That's what the mega-power the Sith had discovered was, though, isn't it? Spreading a massive Dark Side cloud. The clones had to have been protected somehow. Only Yoda was able to sense the attack and kill the troopers. Everybody else was totally surprised.

>>25522

>That's what the mega-power the Sith had discovered was, though, isn't it? Spreading a massive Dark Side cloud. The clones had to have been protected somehow.

But there's nothing that even remotely suggests that he did that to protect the clones. Yoda or Obi Wan would have mentioned something like that after Order 66 since I doubt Palpatine would have kept them cloaked after that if that was the explanation. The whole point of the chip storyline in The Clone Wars was obviously to clear up the confusion among fans as there must have been others like you that George was aware of that thought what you thought. It seemed pretty obvious to me that either it was a chip or just secret Manchurian Candidate-style brainwashing during their training. But I leaned towards the chip as it would have been less likely for the Jedi to sense.

>Only Yoda was able to sense the attack and kill the troopers. Everybody else was totally surprised.

Yoda was the most powerful Jedi (other than Anakin) so it would make sense that he would sense the fastest when the clones turned bad. Also, we only see a few Jedi get killed, we don't know how the others reacted. Plus not all the Jedi got killed at that point, some escaped and many of the ones that escaped could have done so because they sensed the clones turning bad.

>>25525

>Quoting an EU book.

LMAO! At least I presume it's an EU book? Either that or something from Disney, which I still consider EU and not canon. Do you also think Boba Fett's real name is Jaster Mereel? It says so in the EU afterall!

>>25548

yes, he has the reddit stench all over him. it's unmistakable.

>>25548

Oh no, have I made a Kennedyfilm-lover cry? Lol!

>>22824

>It's Popeye

I sort of resent that remark, old-school popeye is at least charming and competently put together

>>25544

>LMAO! At least I presume it's an EU book? Either that or something from Disney, which I still consider EU and not canon. Do you also think Boba Fett's real name is Jaster Mereel? It says so in the EU afterall!

Are you new? Disney was the one that killed the EU, and unlike with Disney, the EU was restricted with what George wanted, the problem was George was always making retcons, even to his own movies. Also, the cg Clone Wars was more Disney-esque than previous Star Wars media than the EU itself.

>>25544

>It says so in the EU afterall!

Nigger, you're database is way out of date.

>>25673

>>25676

EU is basically fan fiction, like the Disney movies and anything else they produce like books and comics. EU is only proper canon when either George Lucas is involved or he declares something in the EU canon, which has only happened a few times. He has always said that the EU is an "alternate universe" of Star Wars and not proper canon.

>>25695

>hurr-durr Eee Yuu am fan fickshon

Somebody doesn't understand canon tiers

>>25695

Am I going to have to link you to a feature length video about all the reasons you're wrong?

>>25696

>Somebody doesn't understand canon tiers

The only tier that matters is George Lucas tier.

>>25697

>Am I going to have to link you to a feature length video about all the reasons you're wrong?

Is it going to be some fan of the EU crying about George Lucas contradicting it?

Since so many of you seem to think the EU is canon then you must think that Star Trek is canon in Star Wars, since Captain Kirk & co made a cameo in the comic adaptation of Dark Force Rising?

>>25698

Oh, it's one of THOSE folk.

So, I have a question in that case. Is Shadows of the Empire canon considering that George was consulted directly on the project and considered it canon himself?

>>25698

> I don't know what a cameo is and I can't appreciate it

Boy you sure must be fun at parties.

>>25695

>he has always said

Wrongo. That was only one instance. George's opinion on the EU was constantly changing much like how he constantly retconned the material and stories within his own films or how Anakin suddenly had to have an apprentice. Or the fact that Dooku regularly appeared in front of Anakin in the Clone Wars cartoon by Filoni despite that Revenge of the Sith implied they hadn't seen each other since Attack of the Clones. Also since when has George ever given a shit about Canon? This is the man who made it so Greedo shot first.

>>25699

Yes, like you said George declared it canon before it was even released. IIRC he called it "a Star Wars movie without a movie".

>>25703

He has talked about it many times. If he didn't give a shit about canon then he would have never talked about the EU that way as he'd want them to sell more. They would sell a lot more if he had said "All the EU is canon and essential to the Star Wars story, so make sure you buy it all!"

>>25711

Young George:

>"After Star Wars was released, it became apparent that my story—however many films it took to tell—was only one of thousands that could be told about the characters who inhabit its galaxy. But these were not stories I was destined to tell. Instead they would spring from the imagination of other writers, inspired by the glimpse of a galaxy that Star Wars provided. Today it is an amazing, if unexpected, legacy of Star Wars that so many gifted writers are contributing new stories to the Saga."

Leland Chee:

>"GL is certainly not bound by the EU, though he's certainly open to using things created in it (Aayla Secura and the Coruscant name, for example). On the other hand, the quote you provide makes it sound like the EU is separate from George's vision of the Star Wars universe. It is not. The EU must follow certain tenets set by George through the films and other guidelines that he provides outside of the films."

And prior to selling to Disney, George was planning on making a sequel trilogy which goes against what he previously said in 2008:

>"I've left pretty explicit instructions for there not to be any more features. There will definitely be no Episodes VII-IX."

George's opinions and "true canon" is constantly in flux.

>>25711

I'm guessing you're not a fan of tabletop?

>>25698

>Since so many of you seem to think the EU is canon then you must think that Star Trek is canon in Star Wars, since Captain Kirk & co made a cameo in the comic adaptation of Dark Force Rising?

How is poking fun at a humorous cameo an argument? That's like being mad that Star Trek TNG had Urusei Yatsura references or that planet Oniboshi was on the list of Federation-explored worlds. Also that doesn't invalidate Dark Forces or its comic as fun pieces of media. I get you're a hardcore Filoni Wars fag, but even that shit made tons of references to the EU while also having as many silly or inconsistent things as anything else, whether something has the Canon label on it or not doesn't make it any less good or bad, and even when the EU was under George, he may not have kept track of the stories but he always enforced his rules on everyone, with anything that upset him being shoved into Infinities or complete non-canon status, like the Jedi Academy trilogy, which he hated, especially the author for wanting to kill Luke. Then there's Dark Empire which George loved so much he gave copies of it to people at Lucasfilm during a Christmas party in 1994.

Anything prior to the Disney buyout has more than its fair share of enjoyment, while everything after Disney is just really woke material for normalfags devoid of any enjoyment or sense of freedom. Another good thing about the pre-Disney period was that you could take what you want and leave what you didn't want, while under Disney you're expected and forced to know what's going, even in regards to their shit new films, while George and the EU did not have to constantly rely on each other to be enjoyed. Seriously, how did you even come to the conclusion that EU fans are Disney fans? If anything OT purists and Filoni Wars fans are the biggest defenders of Disney.

>>22320

((((((((National Film Registry)))))))))

Plenty of better things don't even get considered. It's all a meme.

>>25714

Your first quote is probably out of context. I'm guessing he is being asked about the books and comics being released and at that point he's being polite as it's early on. Your second quote isn't George Lucas and is a vague and cagey answer. Just because George set guidelines for the EU doesn't make them proper canon. He basically didn't want them totally contradicting things he had already written. And your last quote is laughable. He clearly didn't want people talking about sequels as he wasn't ready to commit to them then, especially after being (unfairly) attacked over the prequels. He secretly signed up Mark, Carrie and Harrison for the sequels only a few years after that and before he decided to sell Lucasfilm to Disney. Also that has nothing to do with canon beyond people thinking that they wouldn't get sequel movies.

>>25717

>How is poking fun at a humorous cameo an argument?

How is "Well this EU is canon but that EU obviously isn't canon." (other than stuff George Lucas declared himself) an argument? George Lucas created Star Wars, wrote the stories for all the Star Wars movies and was involved in the TV shows and a few other things. That is the story he wanted to tell. That is canon. Although I obviously wish he never sold it to Disney he did it in good faith as he was promised (on camera even!) that they would use his stories to continue the movies so it would stay canon. They lied. Which is why he quit Lucasfilm as Creative Consultant. I'm not saying you can't like fan faction, but stop pretending it's (proper, not within it's own alternate universe) canon when it isn't. I hope one day George Lucas' sequels will be revealed, either by Disney coming to its senses and rebooting the sequels or just the sequel stories being leaked and a very good fan film being made of them. Because although the latter might technically only be fan films they wouldn't technically be fan fiction, they would be canon.

>>25698

You saying trekkies aren't good enough for Star Wars? Also Max from Sam & Max was in a Star Wars game and nobody gave a shit because it was fun and a nice reference to the fact that lucasfilm worked on Sam & Max and Star Wars games.

>>25724

>First quote doesn't agree with me so it must be out of context

Looks like you're grasping at straws yourself, m8. That quote was from 1994 when asked about the nature of the EU. Georgia's opinions change regularly. It's not a hard concept to understand.

>>25724

Its Cannon as long as it had the official label on it and was done with George's consent regardless of whether or not he was involved in a project. He was also involved in the later stories that took place surrounding Jacen and Anakin solo, and he always made specific request regarding characters and how they should be portrayed and what things are or aren't allowed within the setting. In other words he tells people what they could or couldn't do and from there it was up to them to the side how to execute something without going against his explicit demands. Also since when has the term Canon ever been important within Star Wars? George himself never restricted himself even to his own Canon and even gave us a complete different Anakin than than one we knew from the prequels in the Clone Wars cartoon and all the media that came out around the same time.

>>25726

I just looked it up. It could have been anytime from the late 70s/early 80s to 1994 because it was just a quote they included as an introduction to the 1994 reprint of Splinter Of The Mind's Eye. It could have even been basically talking about the book itself after it was first released, since the book was written as a story for an alternate and cheaper to make sequel in case he didn't get to make Empire Strikes Back, since he wanted a way to keep Star Wars alive.

>>25727

>Its Cannon as long as it had the official label on it and was done with George's consent regardless of whether or not he was involved in a project.

In that case many of the Star Wars chracters turned into various objects including Pez dispensers. I don't know which books or comics explained how that happened though. You EU fanboys are almost as pathetic as the SJW Kennedyfilm worshippers. Especially those of you who are anti-George Lucas. Star Wars wouldn't exist without him. However I wouldn't be surprised if some of those EU stories would have existed without him as the authors might have written them anyway as just their own sci-fi stories with their own titles and different character names. But whether or not that might have happened they're currently all just fan fiction. No different to T.R.O.O.P.S or Pink 5.

>>25728

>It could have even been basically talking about the book itself after it was first released

There's no evidence to support that claim and George himself states in that quote:

>Today it is an amazing, if unexpected, legacy of Star Wars that so many gifted writers are contributing new stories to the Saga."

Splinter of the Mind's Eye was the first piece of EU material (not counting the novelization of ANH that came out in the 70s), so there wasn't a legacy yet or "many gifted writers" until the early 90s where there was now more content than before. Why are you clearly avoiding this part of the quote that was clearly made long after the OT was finished. As others have said, you're grasping at straws as hard as anyone else in this thread, but the difference is someone presented a quote proving your point apocryphal and you're just trying to run around it. George's thoughts and opinions are not set in stone, and even in the 90s he originally conceived the clones as being the "evil faction" of the prequels under the control of the "clone masters" when asked by Zahn and others, but George is not one to tie himself down to the restrictions of something as vague and flexible as the canon of a fictional medium, which exists to be flexible. The EU and even Clone Wars by Filoni are no more canon than anything else until George decides otherwise. Much like the Droids or Ewoks cartoons of the 80s which had direct input from George but in the end he placed them in the same state of apocrypha when they no longer followed his current desires.

>>25729

>In that case many of the Star Wars chracters turned into various objects including Pez dispensers.

Nice false equivalency there, faggot.

>Anti-George Lucas

Nice strawmanning. Who here has said they're anti-Lucas? They're giving you explanations as to what George would and could do, and you're just flat out ignoring it to preserve your own view of canon as anyone else here. The difference is you're mocking those who disagree with your view of canon despite that no one did that to you until you threw the first fucking stone.

> You EU fanboys are almost as pathetic as the SJW Kennedyfilm worshippers.

Again, nice false equivalency and strawmanning. Might as well play that card too and say you're being no different than Kennedy/Disney fanboys who demonize fans of George and the EU simply for not lapping up Kennedy, JJ and Rian's turds like dogs.

>>25728

>>25729

>>25730

>>25731

Can we please get back on topic? Personally it doesn't matter what's canon or isn't canon (even though I consider EU as canon as the special editions or the original versions of the films). What matters is it was all enjoyable for better or worse before Disney came along and there was more than enough for everyone to enjoy.

So to sum it up, big brained centrist says that EU fans are just like SJW Disneywar *"fans."

*note that there are no fans of Disneywars, only shills

>>25730

Speaking of the ANH novel, I have it right here and there are some really funny things about it. The back says ""FEATURING 16 PAGES OF FABULOUS FULL-COLOR PHOTOS FROM THIS SPECTACULAR SPACE-FANTASY MOTION PICTURE!" and all of the photos are grainy and washed. Not what I would consider "fabulous." Also some of the dialog is borked and not what was said in the movie but I can chalk that up to "autistic artistic freedom" on George's part.

>>25698

Alright nigger, you asked for it.

>>25729

Not really sure what you're going for by insisting that the random merchandising products have to be canon for the EU to have ever been considered canon. Claiming that Jar-Jar soap dispensers or C3-PO tape holders invalidate the EU is equally retarded as saying Star Wars lettuce or those RC BB-8s are an essential part of nu-canon.

So mod is a fag who banned me because I was "derailing?" Look at the fucking thread title. "Star Wars revisionism". That's exactly what I'm talking about, EU fags using revisionism to claim it's proper canon. And IP hopping? If my IP has changed between posts it must just be my ISP changing it between logins. But since you're being a total fag and refusing me my right of reply but not banning them, because you can't handle the truth and need their safe-space of lies, I will use different IPs to purposefully evade this and any other bans you try to dish out.

Now on to my replies

>>25730

>Splinter of the Mind's Eye was the first piece of EU material

No it wasn't. Marvel's Star Wars comic was. Sure, it started as just a comic of the movie but I think it had already begun original stories by the time Splinter Of The Mind's Eye came out in 1978.

>Much like the Droids or Ewoks cartoons of the 80s which had direct input from George but in the end he placed them in the same state of apocrypha when they no longer followed his current desires.

Technically Droids could still be canon. All that needs to happen is for George to say that at some point between Episode 3 & 4 something happened that caused them to come into possession of someone else for a while. And I don't know what stops the Ewoks cartoon from being canon. I can't remember whether it takes place before or after Return Of The Jedi or that much about many events in it.

>>25740

>>25734

How am I centrist? A centrist would say something like this guy >>25733

I'm saying movies and other media with George Lucas' direct involvement or anything he specifically declares so is canon. Whereas the EU and Kennedyfilm's Star Wars isn't canon. It's pretty clear and one-sided. The right side.

>>25747

So I was watching and it was mainly quotes from marketing and PR guys. It's their job to get people to buy as much Star Wars stuff as possible. Then after a couple of quotes from George Lucas the narrator says something like "Well he's not involved with it now so anything he said in the past is irrelevant." LMFAO!!! What a load of bullshit! I don't think I'm going to watch any further as what he said right there makes his video irrelevant.

Plus his explanation of "parallel universe" was totally retarded. Everybody knows that parallel universe means alternate universe. Nobody says parallel universe and actually means this universe but happening alongside the main narrative. Have you ever heard someone say "I was walking to the local shops after after it had been raining heavily when in a parallel universe a car went by through a big puddle which make a big splash which soaked me!"?

Also the quotes from other people in the company are fairly recent (in the 2000s) and they're obviously generalising canon as can be seen in at least one of the screenshots of text that mentioned C-canon. Now maybe all of you are as young as this guy, who was obviously born in the late 80s or early 90s judging by what he said about getting into Star Wars, but the tier thing is relatively recent. As in 2000s or possibly mid 90s at the earliest. I'm pretty sure it was created to pander to EU fags crying everytime it was pointed out that EU wasn't actually canon. So now they're saying "OK, EU can be sort of canon, just a lower tier of canon." I've been a fan of Star Wars since the start (it's among my first memories) and I can't remember when the term EU started but the reason for the term was to SEPARATE IT FROM CANON! Otherwise the EU stuff wouldn't be called anything other than Star Wars.

You lot are partly to blame for the Kennedyfilm travesties. (Although I liked Rogue One. Maybe at least least some of the original story was from George Lucas? Who knows.) By claiming that anything with Star Wars slapped onto it is proper canon you let them think they can just make any movies called Star Wars and that they don't have to make George's stories. The fact is that Disney/Kennedyfilm and EU are the same sort of thing. They are officially licensed fan fiction and not George's story. The only way fan fiction can be canon (other than him declaring it, as I said before) is if George had finished his story and said "OK, I'm done now. Others can take it from here." But that is NOT what he did. He said he was done with the business and wanted Disney and Lucasfilm to continue making HIS stories, THEN continue from there.

Tell me this. If there are some EU stories that take place after Return Of The Jedi that you absolutely hate, worse than the Last Jedi, and Kennedyfilm had decided to make them as the sequels instead and kept as close to the stories as possible would you regard them as proper canon?

>>25773

>So mod is a fag who banned me because I was "derailing?" Look at the fucking thread title. "Star Wars revisionism". That's exactly what I'm talking about, EU fags using revisionism to claim it's proper canon. And IP hopping? If my IP has changed between posts it must just be my ISP changing it between logins. But since you're being a total fag and refusing me my right of reply but not banning them, because you can't handle the truth and need their safe-space of lies, I will use different IPs to purposefully evade this and any other bans you try to dish out.

Oh and I'm guess you are doing any revisionism? People in this thread proved you wrong and you proved some wrong, but to deny you're as hard headed as any of them just makes you a hypocrite. Ewoks and Droids are also as "canon" as the rest of the EU which you loathe and George pretty much retconned them by setting 3PO as always being in service to the crew of the Tantive IV. George also said there was never any ideas of a sequel but he went around and went against his own narrative when he announced he'd be making his own sequels, only for him to stop that and proceed to sell everything to Disney. Also, you're view of something being "canon" is horribly skewed in that its only good if George is involved otherwise "lol pez dispensers". You're counters are mostly non-arguments that simply result to cherrypicking quotes to be used as proof yet you ignore any such counters that use the same methods to prove you wrong.

As for Marvel comics, the stories before Splinter were just an adaptation of the films. So there were hardly any authors and George's quote in said book never existed until its 1994 printing.

>>25740

Imagine being so retarded that you disregard Leland "Master of the Holocron" Chee because "it's not Georg"

>>25773

>I'm saying movies and other media with George Lucas' direct involvement or anything he specifically declares so is canon. Whereas the EU and Kennedyfilm's Star Wars isn't canon. It's pretty clear and one-sided. The right side.

Gee, I guess that's why George went through so much trouble to enforce a canon system and hire a guy for the sole purpose of keeping everything in check and enforcing his beliefs and story ideas onto other writers. George's idea of canon changes as seen with the special editions and the prequels. By the late 2000s he had already decided to make a soft reboot of the franchise with Clone Wars which was going to follow up with a whole new assortment of media which retold parts of the story. In the end it didn't matter because by 2011 he and Disney were already starting to cozy up.

>>25779

As anons, we're beholden to give him an object lesson, no?

>>25794

I stopped trusting EckhartsLadder ages ago. Did that post get him any heat or did Reddit kiss his ass as usual? Also what became of his war against Wookieepedia's breast article? I want that shit to be the first article I "improve" once the Baobab Archives are up and running.

>>25801

He got a fair amount of criticism if you check the archive link in the image. Of course that was the EU-specific Star Wars subreddit rather than the main one, so it is way less likely to do that sort of thing. Though it does seem a few of them sucked up to Eck a bit in an attempt to have their criticism of his comment heard.

>>25802

How many official images of female nudity are there in Star Wars anyway? I can't imagine there's a lot, as I remember that "no nudity" was sort of rule for official and fan material alike for a while.

>>25810

>There's also sex scenes with very very mild nudity and at least two accounts of rape I can think of.

Continue.

>>25813

The first rape occurs in a comic and involves some drama between two imperial officers. The other involves a twilek slave. I think there was another but I can't recall if that was between sentients or not. Sex scenes are regularly implied in SWTOR but never although you do hear moans and rustlings. In the Dark Horse comics there are shots of people being together in the same bed and some doing it with brief shots, but never anything more than buttocks or breasts with nips covered up by hair. I think a book featured some more detail. There was also one instance I recall from what I think was a Marvel comic (or an early dark horse one) between a human and a bothan chick who were under the effects of some kind of arousal drug.

>>25815

Details, dammit, I need details. Which comic? What issue?

>>25951

>Shatterpoint

>gang rape

What? When? I don't remember that.

>>26002

Some chick from Korun was gang raped when she was younger by a rival tribe if I recall, so she and her tribe went to get revenge on the rival tribe responsible.

>>26019

Reading Shatterpoint rn, you're thinking of Chalk. She got gangraped by Bawali ebil space rhodesians and now she hates da wyte man

>>25747

Since the Jedi faggot seems to have fucked off, let's talk about something mentioned in this vid–in the early drafts, Dark Empire was apparently going to be with a reborn Vader? If that's the case then George's influence really helped us dodge a bullet. Vader/Anakin's arc was over, he'd sacrificed himself to protect Luke, defeat the Emperor, and redeem itself. Him coming back, as either a hero or a villain, would completely undermine that. The Emperor coming back on the other hand is completely in keeping with his personality.

>>26079

And now that I think about it, Luke managing to kill him off for good is pretty fitting of the whole father-son theme. I suppose I should read dark empire.