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No.1430 [Last50 Posts]
If this video isn't proof that George knew exactly what he was doing, and the Prequel hating plebs are complete fools, then I don't know what is.
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No.1433
oh, we already knew george was fully aware of what he was doing. the problem is trying to convince the redditors and RLMfags.
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No.1434
>>1430
CHECKED
Yeah. He knew what he was doing indeed, but that doesn't mean that writing that bacteria called "Midicholrians" are the prime source for The Force. He should have went with something similar to either the Tao, or Buddhist Nirvana. What do I mean by this? I mean that the Force is best described as something that can't be fully defined in any mortal language; only felt and experienced. THAT and having Jar-Jar have less time on-screen certainly would have made Episode 1: TPM be at least slightly less of a disappointment
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No.1435
>>1434
*bacteria called "Midichlorians" as the prime source for the force being a good idea in practice.
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No.1440
>>1434
>muh medicholrians
They're a way to measure the force, not the force itself. They change nothing.
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No.1441
>>1440
Making the force into a quantifiable reserve really isn't all that much better, anon.
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No.1442
Were the Midiclorians supposed to be ChI?
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No.1443
>>1440
>>1441
Just read "Darth Plagueis" or at least listen to its audiobook.
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No.1447
>I think the core issues that I'm dealing with are… if they were valid two-thousand years ago they've got to still be valid today even though they're not in fashion.
>Why are they out of fashion?
>Because I think it's harder, you know the world we live in is more complex and I think that a lot of those moralities have gotten to be grayed to the point where they don't exist anymore. But those issues are still there in most people's minds.
>What do you mean?
>The importance of say friendship and loyalty. You know I mean most people look at that and say "how corny" but you know the issues of friendship and loyalty are very very important to the way we live our lives. But it's not common knowledge among young people. They're still learning, they're still picking up ideas, they're still using these ideas to shape the way they're gonna conduct their life. And you need to tell the same story over and over again every generation so that generation gets it. And I think we've gone for a few generations where a lot of those sort of more basic stories have fallen by the wayside.
So the way I'm interpreting this, George was worried that society was losing it's traditional understanding of good and evil when he was making the prequels. That's why he was so determined to uphold a black and white morality in his films, he thought it was important for kids to experience classic representations of good and evil while growing up and that lacking that experience would be detrimental for society.
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No.1449
>>1447
Lucas went too far with the Black and White monochrome morality in the prequels for the most part.
>B&W "morals"
>Valid or true ever
The ONLY REASONS as to why they are seen as valid by many people in scores of countries is because they were relentlessly pushed and shoved in whatever way it could for millenia, and was often promoted by swordpoint as well as shock pieces generation after generation.
>Implying that repetition of a narrative makes something true or valid.
In truth, morality is ALMOST NEVER a black and white issue, its usually more of a color spectrum. There is no one true "ONE SIZE FITS ALL" way of thinking, and telling the same Hebe garbage or overrated tripe over and over again doesn't change that!
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No.1473
>>1434
Why would people that only watched movies hate medicholrians so much, it's only brought up twice once with Anakin & Qui-gon and another with Anakin & Palpatine neither of which say they had anything to do with the force…
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No.1474
>>1473
people are naturally sheep. if they are given a view point and then forced some "convincing evidence" to support it, they'll think it's the absolute truth and to go against it must be nothing less than total heresy.
this is why religion is a bad thing, and why lucas depicts the jedi order as being full of asshats who succumb to their own forgone conclusions.
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No.1483
>>1473
>Why would people that only watched movies hate medicholrians so much
Because they watched a "funny" review that told them they should. That's it. They were told that medicholrians are bad so they believed it. The majority of people don't like having opinions of their own so instead of watching a movie and then deciding what they think about it, they go read a review or listen to what their friends have to say then go along with what the majority believes.
It's sad really because the best part about art in my opinion is that everyone takes something different from it, we all bring the baggage of our lives and experiences to whatever film we're seeing or whatever book we're reading and because of that we interpret it differently. The idea of a "consensus" on things destroys that vitally important aspect of it all. I have no problem if someone hates the Prequels so long as they hate them for their own reasons, the tragedy starts when you hear their reasons and it's just a repeat of what every other moron on the internet says. They spout out words like, "Medichlorians, Jar Jar, Pod Race!" as if those are valid complaints about the film instead of just names of things in the film. They believe their criticisms to be self-evident because they never actually thought about them, they just absorbed and regurgitated them like a sponge.
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No.1488
>>1474
>me
>a sheep
Oh and humans aren't all that related to sheep as they are to the great apes fyi. The part about religion is understandable though.
>>1483
I hear you, anon. TBH, I think that if the Medichlorians could have worked better if it were written in a more detailed and/or resourced way, if George couldn't bring himself to write Qui-gon saying it is something that can't be fully explained, like the State of Nirvana. But Jar Jar Binks IMO still didn't need as much time on-screen as he did get. Maybe write him as a side character. Also, not sure if entirely true, but some folks on some site forum that I post on from time to time suggested that Lucas wasn't quite the same not just emotionally, but also as a director and a scriptwriter after his divorce that occurred in the late 1980s-early 1990s.
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No.1548
>>1441
It was established in RotJ that force-sensitivity is hereditary. It is only logical that there must be some biological connection as well, something that allows lifeforms to connect with the Force.
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No.1553
>>1548
But muh PLinkett reviwewsQ!!!!!!! le prequels R ghey, fa,!!
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No.1554
>>1548
Yes, I hear year, but why go with medichlorians for the theatrical script and not say, blood cells having special alleles, or how about something on the molecular level regarding the insides of the Nucleus of body cells?
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No.1555
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No.1587
>>1554
If you read Darth Plagueis or listen to the audiobook found on youtube you would know that midichlorians are merely the gauge used by the Jedi at that time to delineate between force users and non-force users.
Plagueis found that the force itself was created by those who interacted with it. So essentially force users created the force and they would cause disturbance, sometimes these disturbances could land and become attached to a being. That's what happened when one of Plagueis's experiments went wrong and he lost control of the force inadvertently creating Anakin who is the descendant from a family I highly doubt has had any force users in their past. But whose family now does as the vibration from the past echos down to the present.
Sith Magic doesn't require a high control of the force but merely the performance of certain rituals. As remember Desann gave a bunch of Imperial troops force powers using the Valley of the Jedi as a focal point. Similar to how the Jedi during Revan's time could cut you off from the force. It's neither midichlorians or lineage which are the real reason but are still good metrics and usually can't be overcome.
Think of it similar to velocity, during your day to day your gauge for velocity is fine as a measure of distance traveled versus time spent traveling. But there is a point where this thinking breaks down as your speed gets closer to the speed of light, then you must take into consideration a modulus of the speed of light which will always keep your velocity smaller then the speed of light.
On that note Kreia tried to destroy the force and end the vibrations once and for all but was killed by the exile before she tried. Plagueis the same was killed as he got close to taking full control of the force by his apprentice.
Whether the void is one being or many or none, when you get to close to the force it makes sure it has a guard of it step in and destroy you.
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No.1591
Phantom Menace was a good prequel.
Force Awakens was a bad sequel.
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No.1595
>>1591
I don't think that Phantom Menace was terrible at all, but I still think there was some wasted potential in it.
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No.1596
>>1595
Would have been better if the gungans had a more serious design
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No.1619
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No.1621
>>1619
so what you mean to tell me is they've always been shit, and people somehow couldn't tell until tfa? the only thing i can relate to in this video is jay's opening thoughts of "i'm tired of it". that's exactly how i felt with tfa.
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No.1631
>>1619
they were cute back in the day
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No.1665
>>1619
These cucks are living, breathing joyless geek stereotypes. The type of nerd satirized by the "Fanboys" comic. The cretins who believe in sarcastic verbal tone and endless deconstruction as the sole sufficient qualifiers for wit and humor.
How in the fuck do they have any kind of unironic fan base?
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No.1669
>>1665
Plebs are large in number.
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No.1670
>>1669
the plebs are startled easy but they'll soon be back, and in greater numbers.
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No.1937
>>1619
That's what it all the hate stems from, this are fucking nerds who were in love with Star Wars and when the reality-world came knocking because they weren't kids anymore, they saw it for what it was.
It was always mean't to make money, what the hell did these morons believe?
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No.1952
>>1937
but muh childhood!!1 he raped my childhood…
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No.1954
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No.1955
>>1954
i have the issue of star wars insider that has that titanic photo.
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No.5487
>>1449
>The ONLY REASONS as to why they are seen as valid by many people in scores of countries is because they were relentlessly pushed and shoved in whatever way it could for millenia
moral relativist pls go
your satanic cultural marxism shall not pass
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No.5488
>>1449
>my theory of relative morality is absolutely t-true!
you forgot truth is also relative and only jewish kikery exists shlomo
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No.5497
>>5487
How is the queen still alive?
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No.5874
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
Was this what was in the OP?
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No.5936
>>5497
She has a bet on against Stan Lee over who's soul consumption method is most effective, her annual Christmas speeches that take more time, or his more regular but shorter film cameos.
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No.6231
http://sfdebris.com/videos/special/hermitsjourney.php
Last part of the Hermit's Journey documentary is out. If you ever wanted to understand what happened behind the scenes of the Prequels, you could do much worse.
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No.6239
>>5497
virgin blood transfusions
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No.6261
>>1434
>durr Midicholrians r da forse
>checking nothing
Back to >>>/leddit/
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No.6338
>>1430
Prequels are great from a "Creative" perspective.
They are movies that were made with digital technology right at the end of the era when physical effects units were still getting work.
Jar Jar binks creative design was more important than capturing a performance, so we have this bugs bunny lookin ass instead of Frank Oz or whomever doing puppet work.
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No.6363
Prequels were good world-building. One thing I didn't like about Clone Wars was the Clone/Droid war. It was masses of factory-made, replaceable soldiers fighting other masses of factory-made, replaceable soldiers; I could not bring myself to give a shit about the conflict.
Yes, I know the EU gives the clones a lot more personality, and that does change things. Didn't know that going into the theater though.
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No.6437
>>1447
That makes no fucking sense when you consider that the prequels have shades of grey morality all over the place, from the Jedi being sanctimonious fuckwits who believe they shit gold to the Galactic Republic being a bunch of corrupt douchebags who finally got dickish enough for the CIS to band together to try and fight back. If George was trying to portray black and white morality in the prequels, he failed miserably.
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No.6481
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No.6523
>>6363 (checked)
>It was masses of factory-made, replaceable soldiers fighting other masses of factory-made, replaceable soldiers; I could not bring myself to give a shit about the conflict.
Do you see the similarities? Do you think they were on purpose? Materialist thought guides military strategy—mass and technology are used to win.
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No.6530
>>6523
Not in that way, but the Clones were self-disposing too.
http://www.starwars.com/news/6-star-wars-couples-that-we-love Don't know where to put this, but huh. Most of that is from the EU. It's kinda nice. I've only read far enough that I thought Wedge was dating Qwi Qux.
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No.6540
>>6363
Clones are still humans, though. The only thing that makes them seem disposable, from the standpoint of the political elites, is that clones don't have families. Families who would, sooner or later, channel their mourning over the loss of a loved one into political opposition.
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No.6573
>>6437
Agreed. I always thought the CIS were a lot more morally upright than the republic.
Other than the trade union blockading/invading naboo (which wasnt a CIS action and happened before the formation of the CIS), and attempting to assassinate a senator (who wished to keep them subject to a corrupt regime), what did they do wrong? All they wanted was the right to self-determination.
Compare that to the republic which is too bloated and corrupt to enforce its own laws, and when people want freedom raises an army of slaves because, to be clear, the clone army is a slave army.
>>1447
If he wanted a black and whtie morality system, it should have been the CIS using clones to show their evil disregard for for sentient life. The republic should have been using an army of droids and volunteers due to their love for life. After the Republic got trashed for a while, then jedi step in as military commanders to try to limit the scope of the destruction.
This isn't to say that I think Star Wars or any movie can't have shades of grey, but when you (not just your characters) treat a morally grey situation as black and white and expect the children to as well, that seems a little messed up to me.
Still did a better job than Rogue One which only succeeded in making the Rebellion vs Empire into a Black and Black moral conflict
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No.6582
>>6437
>If George was trying to portray black and white morality in the prequels, he failed miserably.
This seems to be a big problem with portrayal of the Force as well. In the OT it seemed like the light/dark dichotomy was intended to mirror Western morality of good/evil. Older material like the Star Wars D6 game treated it that way, where you had to pick one side or the other. Yet there seems to be the idea that 'bringing balance to the Force' doesn't mean destroying all the dark jedi, but by balancing darkness and light. Is this just due to fan interpretation or actual material?
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No.6584
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No.6591
>>6582
>Yet there seems to be the idea that 'bringing balance to the Force' doesn't mean destroying all the dark jedi, but by balancing darkness and light. Is this just due to fan interpretation or actual material?
Didn’t George keep insisting for years that Anakin brought balance to the Force when he killed the Emperor and ended the Sith? I think that makes it pretty clear, though the fact that he described it as ‘bringing balance’ in the first place is probably what’s led to all the misunderstandings. People see that there’s a light side and a dark side, and they automatically assume that bringing balance means finding a balance between the two.
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No.6633
>>6582
>This seems to be a big problem with portrayal of the Force as well. In the OT it seemed like the light/dark dichotomy was intended to mirror Western morality of good/evil. Older material like the Star Wars D6 game treated it that way, where you had to pick one side or the other. Yet there seems to be the idea that 'bringing balance to the Force' doesn't mean destroying all the dark jedi, but by balancing darkness and light. Is this just due to fan interpretation or actual material?
Fan interpretation, since George said outright that the Light Side of the Force is the "True Force" and the Dark Side is basically a parasite or a cancer within it. So Anakin was meant to kill Sidious all along, dismantling the Jedi Order was just an accident and could've been avoided. It also explains how Anakin can fulfill the prophecy without killing Luke too, since otherwise the Force would still be out of balance.
The problem is when you have other "official" Star Wars material supporting the Light/Dark side balance theory such as the Clone Wars Mortis episodes.
In fact, there's a lot of conflict within SW lore on what exactly "The Force" is.
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No.6635
>>6633
The biggest spanner in the works is that Lucas appears in the DVD commentary for the Mortis episodes saying that the light and dark have to be kept in a quasi-Taoist balance. It even totally reverses the notion that darkness is an unnatural corruption of the real Force by stating directly that without the dark the light would swallow up the Galaxy in a blinding blaze.
As Clone Wars goes on from its first to last seasons, we start to see Lucas chilling out just a bit with how he used to have highly specific and non-negotiable stipulations for the most seemingly random details. Wookie jedi, lightsaber colors, and the like included (though he did insist that only lightsabers should resist lightsabers and vetoed a cortosis weave sword in favor of his ass-pulled "darksaber" alternative).
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No.6636
>>6635
>by stating directly that without the dark the light would swallow up the Galaxy in a blinding blaze.
How the fuck does that even work? Western notions of "Light" and "Dark" do not work with Taoist concepts of duality because in Taoism, the "dark side" does not embody evil attributes. It embodies passive attributes that balance out the more aggressive and stoic attributes of the "light side". There is no such thing as being "too good and moral" in Taoist philosophy that you have to balance it out by being a selfish, murderous dick.
It seems like Lucas got peer-pressured by others who were in love with this dumbass concept as applied to Star Wars and finally decided to go "fuck it" and make it canon. Probably one of the few times where he should have stood his ground.
>though he did insist that only lightsabers should resist lightsabers and vetoed a cortosis weave sword in favor of his ass-pulled "darksaber" alternative
I can sorta see the logic behind that because lightsabers were literally created to be able to cut through almost fucking anything except some other energy-based weaponry and equipment. Making up some dumbass super-material that can magically resist lightsabers was kinda stupid.
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No.6904
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>1430
Ignoring the RLM narration because I don't feel like looking for the regular footage, was episode 1 as bad on purpose if he wondered if he "went too far"? Because of that, it does give credence to the idea that they were always meant to be B-movies, but he does seem to admit it was a bit too much.
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No.6919
>>6904
the five hour cut had some problems, yeah. george definitely toned down jar jar footage. i do wish he had gone with some of the other concepts regarding certain bits of the prequels, i'm a much bigger fan of the gungans being near extinct rather than a thriving underwater community, and i don't say that just because of their annoying aspects, i think it would make for a better story that an endangered species threw everything on the line to avoid being enslaved, that's some classical spartacus type shit right there and the audiences would have eaten it up.
>>6636
>>6635
speaking of the whole taoist thing, that's been a popular thesis among people who dissected and analyzed the OT long before clone wars was created, you'd find it present in a philosophy class or essay on that type of shit. also, lucas shifting the narrative is nothing new, after all the story went from ww2 in space to anakin's fall and redemption. i think george realized his mistake in making everything so black and white, whereas it should have been a shade of grey from the start.
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No.7076
>>6919
>that's been a popular thesis among people who dissected and analyzed the OT long before clone wars was created
This just means those people are retards who don't actually understand Taoism.
>i think george realized his mistake in making everything so black and white, whereas it should have been a shade of grey from the start.
Then George shouldn't have made the Sith into the literal personification of evil but into understandable philosophical opposites of the Jedi. I hate Assassin's Creed and while the Templars are mostly portrayed as evil dicks, their philosophy does not literally demand for them to be evil dicks make them a good thematic foil for the Assassins and works much better with the concept of duality in Taoism.
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No.7323
>http://sfdebris.com/videos/special/hermitsjourney.php
>Part 6
Well well. So Iger was corrupted into what he is now too.
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No.7364
>>7323
Wait what? Can you sum up those videos for a guy who doesn't have a lot of time on his hands? I know Kennedy was working with Lucas and Spielberg as far back as the first Indiana Jones, but how does Iger tie into the corruption?
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No.8934
>>5488
>muh jewish coinspiracy
t. brainlet
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No.8939
>>7364
Kennedy actually comes off as something of a nonentity in Sonnenheim's production, only being mentioned a handful of times. This strengthens my theory that she got drunk with a power she may have coveted, but was in no way equipped to handle.
As for Iger, the whole story of Lucas retiring and selling off Star Wars is solely contained in that last video. It seems Iger was at first a pawn in a game of company politics at ABC before he rose to the top of it. Something happened to him in that time, and he made some deals which led to friends and coworkers denouncing him as having lost his soul. He is said to have been badly shaken by this, and vowed to redeem himself. Perhaps he thinks playing politics for "the right side" will absolve him.
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No.8959
>>1440
>>1443
>>1587
>muh book
It isn't canon, it's flat-out contradicted by statements from Lucas and Qui-Gon's speech in Phantom Menace. The midichlorians are the mechanism of force sensitivity, deal with it.
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No.8965
>>8959
qui-gon's speech still explains that the midichlorians aren't the force itself lol
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No.9010
>>7323
>sfdebris
Never he was liked over here.
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No.9062
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>8939
>Kennedy actually comes off as something of a nonentity in Sonnenheim's production
Speaking of…
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No.9071
>>8965
I didn't say they were the Force, brainlets misinterpret Qui-Gon as saying that they were.
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No.9072
>>1595
Biggest problem was child Anakin and not building up Obi-Wan and Anakin's relationship instead of Qui-Gon. I like Qui-Gon but in retrospect, his character shouldn't have been there.
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No.9074
>>9072
I have to agree. Maybe it would've been better if it had instead been Dooku as Obi-Wan's master. Fake his death, have him come back in EPII as the villain, and then the revelation would be way more impacting. Otherwise Qui-Gon is pretty worthless. I mean, I do like his stories outside the films that led him to become a pseudo gray jedi and his tales of heart ache and whatnot, but within the films and cartoons themselves, he's really not that worthwhile. Hell, any other jedi spirit could've taught Yoda and Obi-Wan astral projection.
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No.9081
>>6919
>a shade of grey
Worst idea possible. People say they want villain jedi and antihero sith but it would turn out like punished Luke did.
The story works best if you can kinda sorta convince yourselves the Empire have a few points here and there, but you know deep down they aren’t good guys.
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No.9083
>>9081
You assume incompetent handling. Properly handled, it could be a blast. Look at what happened with TSL.
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No.9097
>>9083
this. star wars already had the shades of grey shit going on throughout the EU, and it worked well because it was handled by competent spergs. now it's being handled by normalfags who can't into sci-fi at all, and is coming out bad.
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No.9098
>>9097
I always liked the idea of grey Force users that were completely utilitarian in how they used the force, instead of the edgy centrist "Both sides are dumb, every1 is dumb but me" that tried to make an ideology out of grabbing random shit from the Jedi and Sith. Imperial Knights were supposed to handle this well, although I haven't read any of that yet.
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No.9103
>>9083
>TSL
TSL's logic was retarded, though. Kreia's philosophy is fucking incoherent, at first she seems to be all about "both sides are wrong, le fenceshitter is supreme ideology" which doesn't make sense in Star Wars where one side is clearly marked as the designated moral good and one side is the designated immoral evil and then in the end it switches to "I hate the Force because blah, blah, destiny is overrated" or some shit, probably because Chris Avellone realized that his shades of grey writing doesn't work in something like Star Wars and tried to pull a last-minute save.
Kreia going off at the player for one decision or the other was some of the most ham-fisted 2deep4u shit I'd ever seen in a video game and just made her seem schizophrenic rather than having her represent some kind of grey area view of the universe. There's no grand point to be made in TSL, in the end you just have some cynical bitch who doesn't even possess a proper logical worldview to explain.
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No.9104
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>9103
t. nuWars enthusiast
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No.9131
>>9104
>Disney Wars enthusiast
>simply because I recognize TSL's hamfisted pseudo-philosophy for what it is
Nice strawman there, fag.
>that video
It's hilarious how the faggot narrating is basically almost coming to the same conclusion as I did that Kreia's logic is convoluted at best, yet tries to pull a save at the last second with the "Jedi and Sith are actually the same, therefore Kreia was right" with virtually zero evidence.
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No.9193
>>9131
>implying you watched more than a minute before getting bored
>implying my "strawman" is wrong
Nice going, nigger.
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No.9203
>>9193
Not the same anon, but move yourself over to the 43 minute mark in the video.A perfectly coherent view of life should have a "right" answer to any scenario life throws at it. This is why theologians and philosophers are always going through scriptures or what-if? scenarios to see how one should behave in any given situation. If Kreia has a coherent world view, then there should be a correct answer to the credit dilemna. Instead, both giving and not giving are "wrong", signalling that she is mostly just a contrarian. Contrarianism, like cynicism and apathy, is one of those mindsets that seem "deep" and "enlightened" to sophomoric minds but is really just asinine.
>In before: The correct answer is obviously to not give him the credits, but don't be an edgelord about it.
If that's the case, then I guess this is just bad writing. However, I would disagree in this instance as whether you threaten the guy or not, he's still going to suffer without your help and thus spread the suffering.
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No.9221
>>9103
Kreia's philosophy is that she sees the Force as giant cosmic Kreia that's manipulating her and she wants to stab it in the kidneys because she hates herself for being a useless old failure. Everything else is rationalization which is why Kreia says things that are flat-out wrong to try to convince you.
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No.9239
>>9221
So like I said, she just hates the Force because destiny. She doesn't really have a philosophy, she's just edgy fedora tier cranked up to 11.
You know, that would almost work as a genius subversion of the "le grey side" philosophy where Kreia is supposed to be an all wise fenceshitter but is actually full of shit. Problem is, I think Obsidian actually did think they were making a legitimate point about SW morality with her.
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No.9243
>>9239
>>9221
I think both of you do a fine job of breaking down Kreia's identity. Speaking of, does the Wookieepedia article detail it well? If not, I think we could right a really interesting analysis on Kreia in her article.
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No.10509
George Lucas is inspiring humanity with possibilities and deep spiritual truths.
Disney is attempting to divert from the truth with lame things and actions. Just a "cheap" copy of Star Wars… in my opinion.
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No.10510
>>10509
>Disney is attempting to divert from the truth
Not just divert but intentionally subvert.
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No.10520
>>10509
>>10510
And it also wants to drill SW into the ground until its a dried out husk (technically it pretty much is now thanks to them and its only a matter of time before the "hype" money runs dry). They'll bastardize it worse than the Muppets and Marvel Comics. Even their capeshit movies won't survive outside of Avengers and Guardians.
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No.10556
>>9104
>b-but I want muh white lasersword katana
There are thousands of shitty ‘world so gray’ universes out there, why the fuck are you so stiff-pricked about making Star Wars yet another one?
Lucas’ vision is a good and evil side of the force. The Jedi are good, but have some problems. The Sith are evil, but have some humanity. Going down the dark side allows you to do things that are powerful but cause you to lose yourself and become a vessel of it. This is why having Force Lightning spewing Jedi with white lightsabers is fucking stupid.
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No.10567
>>10556
Also it shows us a reflection of the truths in this world. Our reality is FAKE.
How the go[o]d people (where-under jedi), are being deceived by the evil bastards wich look on first instance good people (Sheev).
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No.10568
New link to documentary since OP link seems to be blocked.
https://vimeo.com/groups/183185/videos/38026023
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No.10570
>>9239
>Problem is, I think Obsidian actually did think they were making a legitimate point about SW morality with her.
They actually were. Chris Avellone said as much, and it's a completely valid point even if you don't agree with everything she said.
>>10556
>Lucas’ vision is a good and evil side of the force. The Jedi are good, but have some problems. The Sith are evil, but have some humanity.
There are many times when he doesn't seem to think the Jedi have any problems, though. He had Obi-Wan tell us that only a Sith deals in absolutes when that's an absolute statement. Why would anyone have a character who's supposed to be sympathetic say something so obviously contradictory unless they honestly believed that said character is infallible?
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No.10572
>>10570
That's kinda the point, isn't it? Not everyone is infallible shown by Obi-Wan and the Jedi Order letting Anakin down, but there's always right and wrong.
I mean, even if people let you down it's still wrong to act out evil like Anakin did when he turned to the dark side.
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No.12076
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
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No.12083
>>10570
>he thinks Obi Wan is supposed to be Symapthetic
The Jedi are the antagonists in the Prequels, with Mace and Obi Wan filling the role of hypocritical assholes.
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No.13281
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
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No.13350
>>12083
>>10572
you know, i just realized today that 3d clone wars actually helps obi-wan's character in the prequels. if you notice, obi-wan never actually tells anakin that it's not okay to have feelings for padme, and he somewhat seems to encourage it, as he knows anakin is not a by-the-numbers apprentice. then i remembered that in 3d clone wars obi-wan used to fuck the duchess of mandalore or whoever it was, and that actually really helps his character in 2 and 3.
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No.13351
>>13350
True enough. It seems he knows that Anakin is fucking around with Padme and doesn't mind, however he probably wouldn't approve of marriage since he did it in secrecy and didn't tell him about it, and also, jedis fucking around is not uncommon, but marriage is something that absolutely seems to require expulsion from the order since that's probably seen as too much attachment, even though Luke proved otherwise for the most part with Mara.
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No.13352
>>13351
Also, again, if I was Obi-Wan, I'd be pissed off if my adopted younger sibling didn't invite me to his wedding, but then again, would Obi-Wan have understood at all? He didn't seem at all concerned with helping Anakin's mother, despite that Anakin had been having regular visions of her, suggesting something was off.
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No.13353
>>13352
nah, i don't imagine obi-wan would have been pissed, he's definitely someone who had his own thoughts about the council as well, due to his apprenticeship with qui-gon. he would most likely not be happy about the marriage happening, but would do his best to keep it a secret from the order. anakin felt he was doing the right thing by keeping it a secret from everyone.
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No.13355
>>13351
>Luke
Luke got to do what he wanted because he was the founder of an entirely new Order, and deliberately relaxed the Jedi's rules on family and attachment.
>>13353
I wouldn't be surprised if Qui-gon rubbed off on Obi-wan, especially as he aged, but that's not how we've seen him in the films. Whenever Qui-gon was going on about the living Force in TPM, or teaching Obi some other lesson, Obi-wan would reply back with a rote repition of Yoda's teachings. When Anakin and the potential of him being trained came up he agreed with the Council over Obi-wan. In TPM at least he repeatedly showed himself to be a more conservative Jedi, preferring to follow the orthodoxy and the Council's decrees. Now, you could argue that this was the result of him being a by-the-book Padawan who's spent more time in the temple than out, and there might be some validity to that. However, the fact that he was selected to go on to the High Council suggest that he retained a lot of that conservative attitude, even if experience and being out and about in the galaxy eroded some of that.
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No.13362
>>13355
Within the movies it definitely shows that Obi-Wan is by the book and would seriously be pissed at Anakin, within the EU and CW, he definitely seems more like a real entity who would understand Anakin's romance with Padme and at best would try to make sure Anakin reveals it to no one, not even him. Hell maybe that was the case all along.
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No.13364
>>13355
>I wouldn't be surprised if Qui-gon rubbed off on Obi-wan
Oh, Qui-gon certainly did do a lot of rubbing with his young padawan.
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No.13366
>>13364
Wouldn't be surprised if Marvel actually made that a thing soon enough considering all their recent SW comics. Only thing that surprisingly hasn't had any of the usual nu-Marvel/Disney treatment is the Vader comics but that's probably just because they don't want to offend anyone by having Vader kill minorities or have minorities be villains, except for Aphra because she's a strong hotheaded woman who sasses Vader a lot.
Also, BO if you're actually here can you please make the default flag something other than Alderaan? Alderaan deserves better than being a default.
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No.14289
>>1473
Blame RLM the armchair critic
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No.17634
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No.17636
>>17634
So we were screwed no matter what… Great.
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No.17637
>>17636
I wouldn't go so far as to say that. More Force organelles isn't a good idea, sure, but everything else would be definitively /sw/. We'd get a halfway comprehensible plot and believable characters, rather than mystery boxes and ma-rey sues. Also, I feel that George would at least make an effort to accommodate EU fans, rather than actively shit on them.
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No.17638
STOKLASA FUCKED OVER STAR WARS. HE RAPED THE WHOLE COSMOLOGY.
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No.17639
>>17637
True enough, but going deeper than midichlorians is rather… questionable, but I'd still take George over Disney to be sure.
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No.17645
>>8959
>flat-out contradicted by statements from Lucas and Qui-Gon's speech in Phantom Menace.
uhh no
luceno doesn't make mistakes. Lucas was in fact very careful about darth plagueis and delayed it for several years.
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No.17653
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>17634
>Right out of fucking nowhere George suddenly reveals his ideas for his ST for no reason just as Solo falls and Disney loses control over SW fans
>coincidentally Disney media uses this as an opportunity to mock him and show how much "better" an alternative they are than him as if they summoned him to serve as their sacrificial lamb
<LOOK SEE?! Look at how dumb George is! His ideas are literally garbage! Aren't you glad you have our guys Rian, Kennedy, JJ and Wendig instead? We're the lesser of the two evils, amiright?
This is sickening.
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No.17655
>>17634
>>17653
It's from the new James Cameron interview. Nothing to do with Disney. (literally pure coincidence) Lucas could have probably spilled the beans on his sequels whenever he wanted to. I'm pretty mad I'll never get to see the real 7-9.
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No.17659
>>17655
>(literally pure coincidence)
Yet strangely the timing couldn't be more perfect for Disney and those bastards are taking advantage of it.
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No.17671
>>17659
Sure the timing is great, but you're acting like Disney is throwing George under the bus when it's actually in fact the opposite of that. Lucas' ideas are much better and fundamentally more "canon" than Disney's fanfic trilogy. If anything, the more we know about the real 7-9 the better because this will cause more controversy and generate more distrust toward disney for taking the story into their own hands and effectively ruining the franchise. In a perfect world, all of this would generate more interest in Lucas' vision and result with even casual fans in completely disowning Disney's efforts, further (and ironically) damaging the importance "canon", or rather, meaningless corporate-defined canon. This is an important meme that needs to infect the star wars "fandom", the idea that Lucasfilm is an absolutely meaningless entity without George Lucas calling the shots when it comes to story, licensing, long term plans for the company etc. The "Disney Wars" meme/idea absolutely needs to take off. Disney has already sown the seeds of their destruction with their past blunders and creative decisions, as well as with their disrespect toward Lucas and complete disregard for his original suggestions for 7-9, opting to instead to create retro rehashes and cheap subversion. What we should ideally strive for is to have the "Disney Wars" meme properly infecting the contemporary pop culture climate and leaving a permanent mark, so that "Disney Wars" will forever be known as a perversion of Star Wars–something that's fundamentally different from the real franchise, from the real story. Better yet, the idea that "Disney" is poisonous trash, needs to become basic status quo. The soy meme, the Disney Wars meme, all of this help accelerate the destruction of Disney's public image. I want Disney to become a convenient target of hate. It needs to be so that not only adults and teenagers hate it, but kids too. I think this is all theoretically achieveable, because the mainstream media (the primary shilling platform) is dying and internet memes move at a much faster pace than the rest of society. Disney will fucking burn.
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No.17675
>>17671
>If anything, the more we know about the real 7-9 the better because this will cause more controversy and generate more distrust toward disney for taking the story into their own hands and effectively ruining the franchise.
N-Nonsense! Let's just give Disney© another chance my fellow Star Wars™ fans! Ho Ho! George's ideas are absolutely silly! Unlike the glorious ideas by the creative minds at Disney©! Also remember to buy the toys and other merchandise!
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No.17731
>>17634
I've given Lucas a lot of shit over the years for some of his more questionable decisions, but that final line really breaks my heart.
I'm sorry, George.
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No.17742
>>1473
>why would people hate midichlorians so much
>>1474
>they must be sheep
>>1483
>they must watch youtube
We didn't have Youtube in 1999, mate. Rationalizing the Force into a chemical property is an insult to everything we learned and loved about Star Wars.
It may be completely different from the blasphemies of nuStar Wars, but it's equally bad. Keep prequelposting to /tv/, please: the EU and the prequels are fine when taken with a grain of salt, when you pretend they're saturday morning cartoons. Idolizing that abhorrent shit is not fine, however; and memers believing their own memes are doubly pathetic.
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No.17744
>>17742
Funny how I've never run into a single prequel detractor until a decade after they were released, and people started taking nitpicking for comedic effect as a serious scathing review.
>Rationalizing the Force into a chemical property is an insult to everything we learned and loved about Star Wars.
Not particularly. Having the force potential of an individual be measurable wasn't anything new, and it being heritable had already been established long before. in fact, midichlorians were technically part of canon since 1977, as george explained it to some Eu authors back then Midichlorians literally have no impact on the mystery of the force as all they do is allow life to exist, and serve as a way for the Jedi to find suitable candidates for training. That, and fix a plot hole about why some are force sensitive and others are not.
>memers believing their own memes are doubly pathetic
So, you see why people blinding repeating the plinkett reviews as fact is so hated.
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No.17745
>>17744
This essentially.
>>17742
Except the Force isn't a chemical property. Its still the Force. Midis are just what allow physical beings to interact with them, thus giving you a method of measuring force power more accurately and I think it goes well with sith alchemy. The mysticism is still there and it can never truly be unraveled but there also exists a method to make sure every average schmoe and villain doesn't have the potential of awakening force powers and going on a murder spree/trollfest.
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No.17747
>>17742
It's a science-fiction story you retard.
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No.17748
>>17742
>he thinks anyone unironically enjoying the PT is just some /tv/ shitposter meming
Boy, did you come to the wrong neighborhood.
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No.17750
>>8959
(>muh boooooooooooooooooks)
stay mad imkampfy
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No.17755
>>17744
>Funny how I've never run into a single prequel detractor until a decade after they were released
You are either memeing, or were a teen back then. Because the prequels were crushingly hated from day one, starting with the abysmal Phantom Menace.
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No.17757
>>17748
>and memers believing their own memes are doubly pathetic.
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No.17758
>>1449
>>1447
>In truth, morality is ALMOST NEVER a black and white issue
This. Even Tolkien, who followed a similar mindset to Lucas, encouraged moral ambiguity.
It's ironic (insert Palpatine.jpg) that George thought he made the films black and white, morally, when since then and to this day people argue them and see things differently. Hell, about as many people if not slightly more believe the Empire was the good side, unironically.
People chanting for and pushing black-white narratives don't get the point, and I don't think they realize that not only does morality not function that way, but it doesn't make for a good story. Even way back during the days of morality plays like Lucas was inspired by plays that contained boring cut-and-dry themes were criticized for being boring. Socrates wrote some good shit about the nature of morality and how plays of his day missed the point to appeal to a wide audience and how he feared entertainment would one day be dumbed down so any man could understand it, but it would cause man to stop thinking and TRYING to understand it.
Again, Palpatine.jpg
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No.17759
>>17755
I loved the prequels as a kid, hated them in college, and now as a young adult I love them again. Despite how bad they were in many ways they're not even remotely comparable to how terrible every new film's been.
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No.17760
>>17745
>giving you a method of measuring force power
Mystics don't need any other methods but their own senses, like Vader feeling Luke's strength in the force.
And the point is not WHAT they do, as you can write entire books about the midichlorians inner working and it wouldn't make them any less idiotic. The point is that the OT was 'graceful and elegant' when it came to the force, explaining few and yet suggesting a powerful idea of it: no one had any idea how the force manifested physically in individuals, but it wasn't really important. What mattered is that you were made to believe in the force. Give it a litmus test and you basically admit you didn't get shit about the original appeal of the idea.
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No.17771
>>17760
>Mystics don't need any other methods but their own senses, like Vader feeling Luke's strength in the force.
And midichlorians don't take that away. Though you have to wonder if the imperials ever did blood tests to weed out any Jedi or potential force users.
> no one had any idea how the force manifested physically in individuals, but it wasn't really important
Midichlorians aren't the force. While they make other life possible, they don't really do much else other than conveying the will of the force to Jedi. Those are the only two confirmed attributes, other than higher concentrations being found in more powerful force users. Honestly, things like the Ones and the 5 priestesses have far more of an impact than tiny microbes do. Having something more akin to actual gods in Star Wars takes away the mystery more in my opinion, since the force isn't really set up to have deities explicitly mentioned or anything.
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No.17800
>>17757
Not as pathetic as dismissing any differing opinion with >m-muh memes. Ironic that you mentioned /tv/ though, since you demonstrate exactly the same attitude a lot of faggots over there do.
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No.17810
>>17759
same thing happened with me. I think it started when I was 20 years old and saw ESB again after a long time and thought to myself "wow, this is kinda dull". I also watched attack of the clones later that year and to my surprise I loved every second of it. I felt good for days afterwards too. I even avoided rewatching ROTS because I was in such a good mood. I think ESB being the best star wars movie is nothing but a shitty gen X meme retards like to parrot.
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No.17818
>>17759
>>17810
Went through the same phases except middle school was my phase of prequel hate memeing, alongside other cancerous behavior like following the edgy New Atheist movement and listening to leftists.
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No.23658
>>17818
In highschool I had the edgy "le prequels r bad" phase too. Then I rewatched them recently and realized how good they actually are.
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No.23659
>>5874
Yeah, but it was the whole show and not just snippets. Anyone have a torrent?
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No.26635
>>17634
Was George punishing us by selling to Disney?
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No.26651
>>26635
Yes. He made that quite clear early on that he did it out of frustration towards the masses like RLM fags who never shut up about the prequels. It was only after TFA came out that George was full of regret.
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No.26901
>>1619
They all look so cute!!!
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No.26902
>>26651
RLM fags got exactly what they wanted too, Mike said JJ should have directed it in Plinket's review and that's what happened.
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No.26904
>>26902
And they'll be kissing JJ's ass again when IX comes out no matter how bad it is. They shat on Rogue One for the same reasons they loved TFA, and then it became clear that their love for TFA was based solely on their boner for JJ.
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No.26924
>>8959
>It isn't canon
yes it is
>it's flat-out contradicted by statements from Lucas and Qui-Gon's speech in Phantom Menace
no it isn't
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No.26929
>>26902
It's blatantly obvious that Disney studied those videos like a bible, because they thought that was how they would get "the fans" onboard.
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No.26930
>>17653
I don't even think the Whills are a bad idea. It's a bit out there, sure, but it kind of sounds like a JRPG endgame where the protagonists now have to take on god-like forces and the structure of the universe itself, and that could have been cool. At least it's something new for Star Wars.
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No.26937
>>26930
Theyre not meant to be antagonistic. We've seen Whills before in Clone Wars, as the four force ladies were implied to be Avatars of the Whills. The Whills are basically sages in the EU who chronicle the history of the galaxy. At best, a villain would have to be a Whills who rebelled and was exiled from its home dimension for its selfish desires since it was influenced by the negative aspects of humanity, thus resulting in it being the truest incarnation of the Dark Side, like The Entity mentioned in SWTOR who is said to be the Dark Side itself. Would match up with the female force priestesses we saw in Filoni's cartoon (despite how much I hated their concept).
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