9a5295 No.33134 [View All]
Does anyone else feel that Andrew Yang's vision would bring America in the direction of Star Trek's economic values?
____________________________
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612725 No.33140
>>33134
>be retarded chink
>give $1000 a month to everyone
>price of a month of consumer goods increases by ~$1000 (luxury goods don't increase in price)
<look at how expensive everything is! We need moar gibs to make sure everyone has a living wage, oy vey!
>gibs/month raises again
>productive people providing all the shekels taxed further
>suddenly being productive doesn't seem so cool, marginally productive people become gibs-seekers
>rinse and repeat until Venezuela
Yeah, that sounds about right.
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9a5295 No.33142
The Freedom Dividend, Defined
In the next 12 years, 1 out of 3 American workers are at risk of losing their jobs to new technologies—and unlike with previous waves of automation, this time new jobs will not appear quickly enough in large enough numbers to make up for it. To avoid an unprecedented crisis, we’re going to have to find a new solution, unlike anything we’ve done before. It all begins with the Freedom Dividend, a universal basic income for all American adults, no strings attached – a foundation on which a stable, prosperous, and just society can be built.
Andrew Yang wants to implement the Freedom Dividend because we are experiencing the greatest technological shift the world has ever seen. By 2015, automation had already destroyed four million manufacturing jobs, and the smartest people in the world now predict that a third of all working Americans will lose their job to automation in the next 12 years. Our current policies are not equipped to handle this crisis. Even our most forward-thinking politicians are unprepared.
As technology improves, workers will be able to stop doing the most dangerous, repetitive, and boring jobs. This should excite us, but if Americans have no source of income—no ability to pay for groceries, buy homes, save for education, or start families with confidence—then the future could be very dark. Our labor participation rate now is only 62.7% – lower than it has been in decades, with 1 out of 5 working-age men currently out of the workforce. This will get much worse as self-driving cars and other technologies come online.
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9a5295 No.33143
The Freedom Dividend—funded by a simple Value Added Tax—would guarantee that all Americans benefit from automation, not just big companies. The Freedom Dividend would provide money to cover the basics for Americans while enabling us to look for a better job, start our own business, go back to school, take care of our loved ones or work towards our next opportunity.
The Freedom Dividend would transform society in many positive ways and evidence shows this. Trials of various UBI plans have led to all kinds of benefits—some expected, some surprising. Here are just a few of them:
UBI encourages people to find work. Many current welfare programs take away benefits when recipients find work, sometimes leaving them financially worse off than before they were employed. UBI is for all adults, regardless of employment status, so recipients are free to seek additional income, which most everyone does.
UBI reduces bureaucracy—with no-strings-attached coverage, determining who is eligible is far simpler and the cost of administering benefits is greatly reduced.
UBI increases bargaining power for workers because a guaranteed, unconditional income gives them leverage to say no to exploitative wages and abusive working conditions. Employers can’t push workers around as much.
UBI increases entrepreneurship because it provides for basic needs in the early lean days of a company and acts as a safety net if the business fails. It also gives you more consumers to sell to because everyone has more disposable income. The Roosevelt Institute found that a UBI would create 4.6 million jobs and grow the economy by 12 percent continuously. UBI would be the greatest catalyst for new jobs, entrepreneurship, and creativity we have ever seen.
UBI improves the mental health of recipients because it reduces conditions of scarcity, poverty, and financial insecurity, major sources of stress for millions of people.
UBI helps people make smarter decisions. Studies have shown that people in straits of economic insecurity have a reduced cognitive ability equal to 13 IQ points. UBI would provide the security people need to focus on important things like their families.
UBI improves physical health. With increased economic security, people are less prone to stresses, disease, and self-destructive behavior. A UBI experiment in Canada saw hospitalization rates go down 8.5%.
UBI increases art production, nonprofit work and caring for loved ones because it provides a supplementary income for those interested in labor that isn’t supported by the market.
UBI improves labor market efficiency because fewer workers are stuck in jobs that are a bad fit. National productivity will improve because people will be able to seek work that is more rewarding and promote higher job satisfaction.
UBI improves relationships by reducing domestic violence, child abuse, financial stresses, and sources of conflict. It ensures that everyone has an optimistic sense of his or her own future and has the mobility to get out of abusive relationships.
It’s amazing what a steady source of money can do to transform people’s lives. We can experience it here in America if we adopt the Freedom Dividend; we are the wealthiest and most technologically advanced society in human history. It’s time to invest in our people.
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9a5295 No.33144
Isn’t this Communism/Socialism?
No. Communism is, by definition, a revolutionary movement to create a classless, moneyless, and stateless social order built upon shared ownership of production. With Socialism, the core principle is the nationalization of the means of production – i.e. the government seizes Amazon and Google. The Freedom Dividend is none of those things and actually fits so seamlessly into capitalism, it is projected to grow the economy $2.5 trillion in eight years.
Really, the Freedom Dividend is necessary for the continuation of capitalism through the automation wave and displacement of workers. Markets need consumers to sell things to. The Freedom Dividend is capitalism with a floor that people cannot fall beneath.
The Freedom Dividend is capitalism with a floor that people cannot fall beneath.
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9a5295 No.33145
Many need to actually read before commenting. Yang is NOT Sanders.
https://www.yang2020.com/what-is-freedom-dividend-faq/
Human-Centered Capitalism
Capitalism as an economic system has led to unparalleled innovation and improvement in the human condition. Many consider it to have “won” the war of ideas against socialism, but that simplistic view ignores that there is no such thing as a pure Capitalist system. And our current version of institutional capitalism and corporatism is a relatively recent development.
Our current emphasis on corporate profits isn’t working for the vast majority of Americans. This will only be made worse by the development of automation technology and AI.
We need to move to a new form of capitalism – Human Capitalism – that’s geared towards maximizing human well-being and fulfillment. The central tenets of Human Capitalism are:
Humans are more important than money
The unit of a Human Capitalism economy is each person, not each dollar
Markets exist to serve our common goals and values
The focus of our economy should be to maximize human welfare. Sometimes this aligns with a purely capitalist approach, where different entities compete for the best ideas. But there are plenty of times when a capitalist system leads to sub-optimal outcomes. Think of an airline refusing to honor your ticket because they can get more money from a customer who purchases last-minute, or a pharmaceutical company charging extortionate rates for a life-saving drug because the customers are desperate.
https://www.yang2020.com/policies/human-capitalism/
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612725 No.33146
>>33145
>>33144
>>33142
>>33143
What's 12,000 times 300 million, Yang? Do you understand what inflation is?
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9a5295 No.33147
>>33146
Probably still less than the DOD budget! lol
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9a5295 No.33148
Does anyone realize that the state of Alaska already has a UBI (and that it was Republicans that passed it)?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Permanent_Fund
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8146ed No.33149
>>33134
>How do you do, my fellow Jedis! Say, don't you think that Shenji Andy Yang's plan to give people "free" money is just like the post-economic, semi-post-scarcity paradise that in the Original Series Writers' Bible, Roddenberry specifies is not to be clearly defined explicitly so we don't know which socioeconomic system turned out to be right? Love long and press purr! iDOC!
B E N I S
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5b9dff No.33150
>this chicom shilling here of all places
I lack the capacity for genuine surprise at this point.
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612725 No.33151
>>33147
>can't even do math
>can't even look up the budget
$1000/month*12 months*300 million people = 3,600,000,000,000 dollars, you retarded chink. Do you even understand how large $3.6 trillion is? Forget the DoD budget, that rivals the entire budget of the federal government. I'll ask again, do you know what inflation is?
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693572 No.33152
>>33139
TERRA PRIME. FOREVER.
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e2bb25 No.33156
>>33148
That's not really a UBI. That's just the state sharing a portion of it's profits with the people. Most states turn a profit, but don't include it in their budget. This gives them an excuse to tax their citizens more heavily. Alex Jonestein actually does a good job of explaining it in one of his earlier documentaries about the difference between a state's budget and a state's financial report.
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01e16f No.33157
Why? Does he know how to build replicators?
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4bf3d4 No.33158
>>33143
His plan would require a goods and services tax of about 12%, maybe 10% if the income was itself taxable. That's doable but would be a large case of sticker shock.
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45f497 No.33160
>>33143
>Trials of various UBI plans have led to all kinds of benefits
I think the few countries that tried it ended up scrapping the idea. Like Finland.
Kinda like wind turnbines. Great in theory shit in practice.
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0bac0f No.33163
>>33134
>Star Trek's economic values
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55454d No.33173
>>33143
>funded by a simple Value Added Tax
Libs have been itching for a VAT for a while now, and it's an absolute nightmare. Everywhere I've been that has a VAT, has it in in the 20% neighborhood.
For anyone who doesn't know, a "value added tax" is just what it sounds like. Any time "value" is "added" to anything, it gets taxed.
Say you have a bunch of land and decide to plant trees. The trees grow tall and straight, so you cut them down to sell to lumber mills. The lumber mill has to pay a VAT, because you added value to them when you cut them down and cut off all the branches.
So then the lumber mill trucks them back home, strips the bark off, saws them into boards, and sells them. But now the people buying boards have to pay VAT, because they're not just buying felled trees, they're buying felled trees that have been sawed into boards.
Finally, the people who bought the boards take them home and make beautiful pieces of furniture out of them using nothing but their own time and tools. You buy a coffee table, but you're paying VAT because you're not just buying lumber, you're buying lumber that's been made into furniture.
So the government sat there with it's hand out the whole time, while contributing nothing to any of the transactions that took place, and taxed the same piece of wood three separate times from the farm to your living room floor. Probably I even missed a few steps in between where they hit it again.
And that VAT applies to absolutely anything that is a purchasable good.
Milk:
Farmer milks a cow - VAT
Farmer sells the jugs to the dairy - VAT
Dairy puts it into cartons and trucks it to the store - VAT
Store puts a price tag on it and sticks it in a fridge until you come and grab it - VAT
Nails:
Mining company digs iron out of the ground and sells it to a foundry - VAT
Foundry refines the ore, melts it into bars, and sells the iron to a manufacturer - VAT
Manufacturer melts the bars and molds them into little rods, then sells those rods to the nail making people - VAT
Nail making people flatten one end of the rod and sharpen the other, dump so many into a box, and then truck it to the hardware store - VAT
You go to the hardware store and buy a box of nails -VAT
Prices on everything goes through the roof. Anybody that advocates for a VAT or needs it to pay for anything is your enemy.
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4bf3d4 No.33174
>>33173
>So the government sat there with it's hand out the whole time, while contributing nothing to any of the transactions that took place, and taxed the same piece of wood three separate times from the farm to your living room floor. Probably I even missed a few steps in between where they hit it again.
You don't understand a VAT. You make it sound like they have taxed the same product 3 times and they have not. At each phase except the final sale the VAT paid at the previous step is repaid to the new seller. So, its like this:
1) First sale - $10, $2 vat charged
2) Second sale - $20, $4 vat charged, $2 vat refunded
3) Third sale - $30, $6 vat charged, $4 vat refunded.
So the total vat the government gets is only based on the final $30 sale.
Also there are plenty of VATs under 20% (the federal Canadian VAT is for example 5%)
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f753b9 No.33175
I crunched these numbers myself and it's not unreasonable but it is a little difficult. To pull it off they would need to cut the military budget, they would need to fix health care, they would need to have a VAT tax on everything and absorb most of the budget of the existing wellfare program. Honestly if they did it for a lesser amount like $500/month, it becomes way easier to pay for without big cuts.
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f753b9 No.33176
10% vat gets you 700-800 Bn. 1.4 trillion is discretionary spending. Thats 2.1 trillion per year. That gets you about $535/month. To get to $1000 a month would require some other major restructuring.
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5b9dff No.33177
>>33174
Not a fan of the government bleeding me dry just so they can claim the marginal scraps that they give back constitute charity. Go home commie.
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612725 No.33178
>>33175
Giving everyone 500 a month would increase the price of the things the average person buys in a month by about 500.
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8146ed No.33179
>>33151
>do you know what inflation is?
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4bf3d4 No.33180
>>33177
>Not a fan of the government bleeding me dry just so they can claim the marginal scraps that they give back constitute charity. Go home commie.
Retard. Just because I understand how something works (unlike you) doesn't mean I think taxes should be increased or that I'm a communist.
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4bf3d4 No.33181
>>33176
How do you come up with that? US GDP is 19 trillion so 10% VAT would generate closer to 1.9 trillion (less collection costs and cheating). There would also be a savings of about 500billion when you eliminated regular welfare.
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5b9dff No.33182
>>33180
Nah, the fact that you actually believe that money goes where it's claimed to does. Unless I'm wrong and that wasn't a defense of VAT like it seemed.
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1de23f No.33185
>>33182
This is why America is turning into a developing country. Next you will tell us you think niggers are human beings.
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4dd9d4 No.33188
>>33137
With or without the Talmudic hand signs?
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1799a9 No.33189
>>33175
>To pull it off they would need to cut the military budget
This should be done anyway. The fat needs to be cut out of the military-industrial complex.
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6881fa No.33190
>>33174
But the total VAT the consumer pays is $6 or 20% higher prices. Add in the additional inflation caused by unlimited "free" money chasing a limited number of products and you are going to find yourself 35%-50% WORSE OFF than before.
Damn, you are a massive fuckwit.
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b617b6 No.33196
Why are democrats so afraid of Andrew Yang? He seems better than other democrats.
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0c0614 No.33208
>>33151
>you retarded chink
That's not how you deal with Chinese posters. How you're supposed to deal with Chinese posters is to add the following hex in spoilers at the end of your post:
Tiananmen Square
1989
[spoier]Xi Jinping==WInnie the Pooh[/spoiler]
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2ff32a No.33210
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7483ca No.33212
>>33196
>Why are democrats so afraid of Andrew Yang? He seems better than other democrats.
Jews and their shabbos goy currently running things have an innate fear of Asians grasping for power as they sense a degree of ruthlessness and motivation that they recognize as 'very jewish' and which they usually only get from whites when the whites have their dander up. See the ivy league college admissions scandal. It's the whole 'Tiger Mom' thing applied to politics. The Jews do not intend to share their position at the top of the heap as the West's new 'natural elite'. They're aware that other elite minorities are capable of doing it without being quickly despised (see the Parsis in India and the overseas Chinese in a few instances). This makes them even more insecure and neurotic.>>33196
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304522 No.33223
>>33178
Agreed. I like the minimum wage idea so everyone has a living wage, but just giving everyone (working or not) $1000 means everything cost like 10% more.
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612725 No.33230
>>33223
Minimum wage laws also increase inflation while also causing unemployment and deadweight loss.
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f1de2e No.33322
>>33134
Anything that is more socialist is more federation like. However the federation is not "humanity first" you speciest! :) Its a species melting pot unlike literally every other space empire who is racially homogeneous. And this is why the federation is bad.
>>33140
Yep so the logical solution is to get the communist revolution going kill the capitalists and take over the power. Inflation is only created by capitalists increasing prices.
Also your example doesn't work with anything
>give $1000 a month to everyone
So if rich people spend money it creates inflation? Or if a rich guy gives some of his money to some other guy it creates inflation?
Also its funny how inflation disproves liberterianism, inflation is only possible if the world is zero sum (it is) however liberterianism requires the world not to be zero sum.
Money is nothing more then coupons for limited resources. You have 100 guys and 100 water bottles. If you print more coupons and give them to one guy who takes all the water bottles lots of guys will be left without water bottles.
If you live in a world where 1 guy has 99 water bottles and the rest gets to share 1 bottle the solution to get more water is to kill the rich and take the water he is hording.
Any questions?
Let me make fun of your libertarian philosophy.
<What you think the world is zero sum?!
<That's wrong!
<How can you think that me printing money will magically make you poor?!
<How can that be?! There will be more money for everyone!
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f1de2e No.33323
>>33322
>>33143
Exactly, robots will replace 99.99999999999% of us we either have a communist revolution or we all die.
UBI is only a attempt that will turn out to be nothing more then a capitalist trick.
We need full economic restructuring.
We can not be dependent on other nations because this will simply not work.
Also every environmentalist is to be exterminated (more resources for the rest of us :) yey ) their anti energy policy is anti all of us we need to utilize more energy technologies or we starve to death.
>>33144
Na its socialism, everything that sports government roads or the government fire department is socialism, you are already in socialism(and this is a good hing), socialism is not dying of starvation and having a society that is worth living in.
Socialism is the idea of the smurfs where everyone lives together happy and works for the betterment of everyone else or star trek.
Only an absolute idiot or psch would oppose that.
>moneyless
citation needed. Your liberterian blog who only creates strongman of socialism is a not a valid source.
See my post arguing ageist money is like arguing ageings numbers or mathematics. There will be a need to divide the resources and we use money to do this.
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f1de2e No.33324
>>33173
>VAT
Vat is a regressive tax. Literally no socialist is for increasing the VAT because the more poor you are the more you pay for food only.
Its not different form saying
<LMFAO lets tax the poor more LMFAO 99% tax on the poor 0.000001% on the super rich.
Ask leftypol if you don't believe me.
>>33146
>>33151
Last time I did the calculation for myself the price of the yang idea was the exact size of the military budget requiring the absolute abolition of the entire military.
>>33189
Enjoy America getting overthrown.
>>33143
>by a simple Value Added Tax
OK that sounds retarded. So I buy 1 chocolate bar/m for $5 then after the tax the bar costs now $10 because yang says so. I need to pay $10 for the exact chocolate bar however I get a paycheck for $5 from mr yang.
How did I benefit from this?
Lets say someone has no money for a $5 bar. Now the bar costs $10. However he gets $5 in mail. Can not buy anything! Yang logic!
Yes its that stupid when you correct a monthly food budget and imagine it as 1 chocolate bar.
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f1de2e No.33325
>>33208
This made me laugh so hard in front of my computer.
However I don't think the yang shill is a Chinese shill he is some guy employed in the US or India to repeat this yang propaganda everywhere.
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0ce7ad No.33327
>>33134
Well Star Trek's inconsistent and retarded economic system is basically a Redditor's conception of how socialism would work, so no, because socialism can't work like that. Yang's system won't work because he hasn't adressed the obvious problems that face socialism, the chief of which is the massive and accelerating free rider problem, since basically anyone on earth can walk into the US and start absorbing funds from the government (which are already in massive excess of 1000 dollars per person per month), and that's ignoring the massive foreign underclasses that are already there.
Yang proposes to pay for his program by cutting existing inefficient public benefits; if you actually believe the democrats (or most repubes) would EVER rollback the gibs under ANY pretense, I laugh at you.
>>33324
>Enjoy America being overthrown
I never thought my dick could get so hard from a /strek/ post.
YANG GANG
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8b87b7 No.33333
Lol this ad wouldn't work very well in the Star Trek universe.
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cd567a No.33466
>>33333
fascinating numbers
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a6cb88 No.33498
>in the direction
Sure you could argue that, but this one small step would be so small as to be irrelevant if you end goal is Star Trek's 24th century vision.
Could you live anywhere in the US (rent+food+healthcare) on $1,000 freedom dividend?
Money doesn't mean much on Earth in the Star Trek universe because:
A) they don't have to buy flood insurance or anything because the weather is controlled (except for when Q interefreres)
B) Most food is replicated, people who actually cook are considered quirky or craftsmen, in our time we still need workers to produce all of it
C) We know that citizens have a limited number of times they can use a transporter (I think they were called 'beaming credits' on DS9) but other than that their energy is essentially limitless and clean as Earth has multiple matter/antimatter powerplants in operation; we haven't even mastered fusion yet
We don't have limitless energy, efficient automation in all industrial areas, and scarcity-free necessities available for all who need. I'm guessing in Star Trek most Federation citizens don't use their money unless they want to buy private property in some specific location from an existing owner, or they want something to haggle with when they leave federation space. For the most part education, experience and social capital seem to be the most important baragainng chip to have to your name, and if I were planning to leave Federation space I'd exchange my UFP credits for Ferengi gold-pressed-latinum as it seems to be more widely accepted.
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9e2ae4 No.33551
>>33139
>TERRA Prime
>lives on Luna
he's moon cucked
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2f78a7 No.33566
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4cd890 No.33585
>>33566
>>33139
Is there a meme form of this with the text on screen?
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33619a No.33591
>>33585
It should say "the Sun," not "the Earth." Dyson spheres are built around stars to capture 100% of their output, not around planets.
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a1ccd1 No.33595
>>33591
Yeah I just realized that a sphere around the Earth would achieve the opposite effect, you're gonna want to work these details out before building.
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