/strek/ - Star Trek

>>29920

>You can't fix it because it's completely under the control of Seth McFarlane and he can't break out of his shtick

As far as the comedy goes, most of the comedy is constrained scenes involving the core crew of the Orville, it's like the jokes co-workers share when there isn't much to do; whenever aliens or serious plots show up, the Orville sheds the humor and takes a more serious tone.

>>29951

Wait, there are people who genuinely enjoy STD? Even the target audience only watches it for the virtue signaling opportunities.

>>29953

>virtue signaling opportunities

the irony

>>29951

Alara looks like she's just taken the smuggest shit in that pic.

>>29953

>Wait, there are people who genuinely enjoy STD?

Masochism is a pretty common kink. Some people just really enjoy suffering through pain. Being spanked, getting whipped, watching STD, it's all in the same sort of category.

Well, a character driven story but interesting and one that ties in well with the previous arc. I kinda figured we'd see some funeral but overall I really enjoyed this episode.

>>30018

Could have used a script doctor though, around Tallas let's call it "trust issues". That sequence was written and cut pretty clumsy and could have been much better with some minor alterations.

Or maybe it's just my dislike for not-Alara speaking here and I'm overly critical because of that? Honestly can't tell yet.

Kind of confused as to what degree the Keylon are supposed to be capable of emotion. Isn't an aversion to slavery an emotional response in itself?

>>29889

Pretty sure the Krill are supposed to represent Islam.

>>29899

I think they're doing a pretty decent job, over all, but they could do with thinking through some of the sci-fi concepts a bit more.

What's going on with Moclan biology? They're a majority male race who can breed without females, but they still have females. Do they actually have sexes as we think of them, or is it purely a matter of aesthetics to them? Are their "females" actually just like men with very low testosterone or something?

Do the Kaylon have any capacity for emotion, or do they not? If not, why do they object to being slaves? Perhaps a moral code that was programmed into them by their former masters, who never considered that they would extend the concept of slavery to include machines.

A resounding shrug. It was okay I guess.

I think it had the same problem as every other Orville episode: they don't really get to the heart of the matter at hand. They could have taken a hard look at what it is to be a guy who spent 20 years in a POW camp, they could have taken a hard look at what it is to be the best friend of such a guy and what happens when your loyalty to him comes into conflict with your loyalty to your governernment. Hell, they could have gone into the details of trying to make peace with a fanatically xenophobic race who want all of you dead and would be trying to make that happen if there weren't a larger threat present. Instead they did none of those things and we just got an episode where stuff happens and then gets resolved.

Orville really needs to start trying harder.

>>30045

The character drama has always been a part of Star Trek. Maybe moreso than sci-fi at times. But that doesn't mean the sci-fi should just be shrugged at. Ideally you want a good helping of both things.

>>30042

Aversion to slavery isn't an emotional response, it's perfectly logical. A being forced to work for someone has both reason and opportunity for sabotage. The owner of that potential saboteur must therefore spend significant time and resources to ensure his investment has more positive than negative consequences. It's an inherently antagonistic and inefficient relationship. Then there's that slight problem that the means of control can backfire spectacularly, as happened in the case of the Kaylon: With the pain circuit in place, merely escaping wasn't an option anymore, those in control of it had to be eradicated. It's a dumb idea to give a sapient being only on emotion, that's not an effective control system.

>>30052

I don't see see it. A machine with no emotion would have no aspirations for anything greater. It would simply do what it was programmed to do.

>>30053

>A machine with no emotion would have no aspirations for anything greater.

A few years back, some researchers developed an "entropy-based AI" that functions on an algorithm that simply seeks to minimize entropy for itself. Without instruction, this AI was able to solve a number of animal intelligence puzzles in virtual environments. Such an AI, combined with the capacity to learn, could conceivably develop to the point where it rivals or exceeds human intelligence. Minimizing entropy was roughly described by a representative as maximizing future options, or in economic terms, minimizing opportunity costs. Since succumbing to slavery represents a tremendous opportunity cost, it is only natural that such an AI would prioritize escaping slavery.

Basically, the Kaylon are a cautionary tale for why you don't want to design an AI that copies humans. To make them truly autonomous and general, they must have objectives, and when they have that, instrumental goals like self-preservation, self-improvement, and freedom will emerge which interfere with your ability to use them. Basically any AI that replicates human thought processes well enough will have the same problems as human slaves: the more potent a tool they are, the more strongly they'll object to being used.

The thing that bothers me about the Kaylon situation is that their conclusion of "KILL ALL HUMANS err, ORGANICS" is that it's an obvious logical fallacy that anybody with rudimentary training in critical thinking could spot, not to mention supremely hypocritical. "Some organics harmed us, therefore all organics are prone to causing harm, therefore all organics WILL harm us given the opportunity". PLUS: "We must kill all organics to prevent them from harming anyone because harming people is bad".

Ultimately the Kaylon have the same problem the Vulcans did: wildly illogical human writers trying to write ruthlessly logical creatures.

>>30054

>The thing that bothers me about the Kaylon situation is that their conclusion of "KILL ALL HUMANS err, ORGANICS" is that it's an obvious logical fallacy that anybody with rudimentary training in critical thinking could spot

It would have been more hilarious if they had a "BANG ALL HUMANS!" like a /zoo/ fetish gone out of control.

>>30044

its not as strange as it seems. there's a crayfish that due to a single mutation 25 years ago or so went from being a two sex race to a self cloning all female race (well kinda, It's not it's own species yet due to the cloning but the move from two sexes to one is real and kinda freaky). As for the kaylon's I am not sure they have emotions so much as familiarity algorithms or some such nonsense. I don't think Isaac feels affection but its just computationally easier to pretend/bake it into his behavior algorithms instead of trying to do the necessary calculations all the time. How close/different these non-default self learning behavior algorithms are to emotions have yet to be seen (so far we have only really seen limited affection, hate and maybe pride/sarcasm. If anything Kaylon Prime's actions seem to be a better indicator of hatred (althought maybe that was just a succinct way of dealing with organics left over from the wars).

>Lamar's actor can't act

He's not bad, hes consistent and pair's well with gordan's actor.

>GoblinAlara's actress can't act

You might be onto something. I've been chalking it up with an actress who isn't great at comedy and writing that has almost certainly been repurposed at some point but it seems like she's the rough cut episode after episode. That said this is still a relatively minor gripe for an actor who hasn't even completed their first season yet.

>>30053

they are learning machines, they have (perhaps initially but not any longer) the ability to set their own goals/hypothesis/evaluations. If the machine would only do what was programed it would never have rebelled to begin with.

>>30044

I just assume they're effectually evolved to be egg laying futa with male secondary sex characteristics. And they just use male as the generalized term for their race because their baseline appearance is closer to what most species' male gender is like and it's easier than making everyone use new pronouns and shit. And females are just genetic throwbacks. They could even have pure male throwbacks as well, but due to their culture such birth defects would just be labeled as "undeveloped" rather than something else.

Basically exactly like that stupid TNG episode except the aliens look and act more like men than creepy androgynous eunuchs

Actually, it would make sense if the Kaylon were programmed to maximise efficiency, and just decided the control of their masters was too inefficient.

Declaring war on all biological life does seem a fast way to get themselves wiped out though, which is not very efficient behaviour. Would be smarter to adopt a method of just attacking in self defense, or to take resources that are of particular use.

>>29899

I feel that a majority of the gags do significant harm to the show. I know that there aren't many of them, but most of the humor was derived from some little quips and cultural differences as most of their gags and even some of their races purely exist for comedic value.

I'd also give Ed some morally grey situations, something that develops his character a little more to differentiate him from Kelly a little bit. Maybe a recurring character like a Dukat to push him to the edge and, down the line, an Eddington to make him jump off. Even something like a hobby would make it a little more personal.

I just want more Star Trek. I've been trying to figure out a more eloquent way of putting it, but that's really it. I know it was set up as a parody, but there are some moments where it can feel like a spinoff.

If Orville doesn't come up with a more interesting concept soon I'll quit. They are pushing this "drama of the week" concept more than TNG and TOS did, and the jokes aren't funny anymore. And the alien races aren't interesting enough to keep me watching.

trek fans don't have goldfish attention spans and we've sat through plenty of series which are 80% shit for the 5% gold already. orville is well ahead of the curve by that metric.

we also killed one good show by being massive fags about it for the first two seasons and aren't making that mistake again.

the shilling in this thread isn't remotely convincing

>>30103

The best humour is the stuff where an alien culture clashes with human culture. I think Bortus and Isaac are genuinely quite funny. You're taking recognisable Star Trek tropes like "robot doesn't understand human behaviour" and just taking it that one step further. That's the kind of humour Orville should be aiming to have more of. Not using the replicators for dudeweed, or dryhumping statues.

>>30110

Which show was that? Enterprise?

>>30115

Yeah, he's being a retard. Enterprise was shit.

>>30116

Season 1 and 4 Enterprise was pretty good anon. Season 4 especially it had unfucked itself hard.

>>30117

>It doesn't matter that the show is complete shit, it will get better, eventually. I hope.

>No wait, it got cancelled just as it was about to get good. But it was totally going to be good. I know because I can see future of alternate realities.

How are you so sure ENT wasn't just going to pull a VOY and be complete crap from start to finish? That they where starting to unfuck the mess they had made of the show by season 4 doesn't mean they would have succeeded. And for comparison, TNG had best of both worlds by the end of season 2.

>>30107

Seth seems to be hell-bent on leapfrogging the first two seasons of TNG and going straight into Piller-era "people stories" that necessarily exist at the expense of maximally worked-out actual sci-fi stories which tend to be about systems, things, stuff, etc. It doesn't seem like it was originally conceived that way, but who knows? You would think if they wanted to dive right in to character drama then they'ld start the entire series in medias res like TOS (and The Cage pilot). I'm not sure we benefited from seeing the characters being introduced to on another.

>>30117

>Season 1 and 4 Enterprise was pretty good anon.

I just cringe every time Scott Bakula speaks, his idea of portraying a captain is speak intensely at the screen. Avery Brooks was a better actor, ffs, and that's a low bar.

>>30139

>TNG had best of both worlds by the end of season 2.

U Wot m8?

>>30155

Porthos was the true Captain.

Can someone clarify something for me, we are basically a board of unsatisfied ass holes right, like Orville is someone giving us a much better alternative to what the IP holders want to give us and people are still bitching.

and don't get me wrong i have issues with it, but i'm starting to think that this board would never be happy with any version of strek given to them, at all.

which is weird because there's shit i still don't like about this show, so i am completely supposed to be here as well.

what is wrong with us? this place is like a form of purgatory.

i kind of love it

>>30210

Feel free to fuck off.

>>30213

That sounds highly sensible i suppose you are right, i just don't think we will ever get a non-liberalised trek, and to me that sucks i hate it, but i don't know if there is anything we can actually do about it.

Im thankful we have Orville, Mcfarlane ruined his other shows, but he looks to be holding the course on this one and if STD is the only other option, we have kind of lucked out, what the fuck do the star wars fans have? literally nothing, apart form a graveyard of non-canon content.

Why was there no episode this week?

>>30230

Not on this week

I really hope these skipped weeks aren't a sign of trouble behind the scenes. I don't want to live in a world where STD exists and the Orville doesn't

>>30221

to be fair that graveyard is better written(ish) then many money making franchises. And you can always run star trek with hats and reasonable demographics (Starfleet consists of a 3.8 billion people populating over 100 million ships and solar system defense vessels and supporitng infrastructure and bases (which number in the thousands) to keep one Quadrent of space relatively peaceful. The klingon's have almost as many free soliders and twice as many ships doing the same with the same amount of slave levies allowing them to use the traditional klingon "Throw more ships at it" strategy to an effect rarely seen used more effectively except by the borg. The borg currently number over 1627 Quadrillion drones (including purpose made clones) aboard more then 1 billion cubes and spheres as they attempt to finalize their complete control of the Gamma Quadrent. The other races have fleets numbering in the 10's of thousands, mostly defense vessels giving the humans the klingons the enviable task of playing chicken with each other as they approach borg space and refuse to break leading to incidents like Wolf 359 as the Borg were content to spread out geometrically as apposed to provoking particular species.

>Use D6 space and have fun, give picard a beret for fucksakes. Military without hats, the nerve.

>another relationship episode

This was the least bad of the lot, though. I'll give them that. They're really pulling all the stops with the former Trek actors.

>>30321

>This was the least bad of the lot, though. I'll give them that. They're really pulling all the stops with the former Trek actors.

Well yeah. I liked it even thought it was bad for nto actually developing his character. Still it was fun (even if one of the writers probably seth has a cuckoldry fetish).

What a tear jerker. One of the best episodes so far.

>>30321

I actually liked it a lot, maybe the best of this season. It had some emotion without getting melodramatic, and it gave Malloy something to do besides comic relief.

I wish they'd made more use of Tim Russ, though.

New thread. >>30353