/strek/ - Star Trek

>>25474

3) The federation is a disgusting leftist (I'm not talking about money) cosmopolitan shit hole.

look at every other civilization:

The Klingons are a glorious homogeneous single race country.

The Cardassians are a glorious homogeneous single race country.

The Romulans are a glorious homogeneous single race country.

The federation is captain Sweden of the universe in its final decaying stages however its fine because the writers say so.

The federation is a mixtures of races who all have equal voting powers (I'm extrapolating here because we see dick of how the federation votes or how the president got into his place) and all of these races magically assimilate and all turn into perfect federation drones.

The borg are far more realistic because they implant you with actual chips who make you obey the hive mind.

The federation is shit because it denigrates humanity as nothing more then another unimportant region of the federation. However we all know this is not the only option since everyone is racially homogeneous and racially racially homogeneous (in like all Klingons are of the same race or show me the albinos and all Romulus are of the same race or show me the black Romulans).

Now lets move to how the federation operates, it is going around to find planets to include into itself this would translate into giving up more power to more xenos or new ones VS Humans.

See star trek insurrection where some space savages are getting accepted into the federation.

You can see how disastrous this would end up in the new races outnumbering (how exactly are votes given to races? 1 Race = 1 vote? 1 planet = 1 vote? Who has more citizens gets more votes?) the new races can simply vote to give themselves more gibs or fuck over humans.

Arguably this is what we see in the EU where some countries are accused to be mooching now imagine if the EU decided to run around the world and make everyone who has electricity a candidate and accept them into the EU.

The borg forcefully implant you with chips that make it impossible for you to be selfish.

What has the federation?

Magic?

Ideology that magically overwrites everyone and turns them into a altruist?

The fact that achieving warp travel will somehow magically turn everyone into not selfish pricks?

You see how outlandish this is?

You can not say

>muh replicators solve this

Because you can not replicate votes for yourself or solve a political power issue by technology.

Lets say we have a scenario like in the god awful 2009 Star Trek (I'm only using this for illustration) and Vulcan or Earth are on the line to be exterminated by some random evil empire.

What is ensuring the survival of humanity (lets say 99% of humans live only on earth)?

What if Star Fleet decided to say

>You know what? Humans are only 1% of the federation if we let this random evil destroy earth and organize behind this line we can win the war.

>We can sacrifice humans who will miss them?

What is ensuring the safety of humanity? In this scenario humans will at best end up like the Vulcan in nu-treck refuges who are shattered remnants of a once proud race.

If every race controls multiple planets change the scenario being SF deciding to sacrifice this territory to win a war.

Aaa see the problem? And replicators will not save you or any technology.

And how exactly are the votes calculated in the federation?

Funny that 40K has more on how the government is exactly organized then the entirety of Star Trek on the federation.

If its based on the population and 99% of your population is exterminated congratulations you became even more irrelevant in the federation and the next space niggers to discover space fire will outvote you even more after they are accepted into the federation.

This is why I don't even go to the nitpicking of money or other libertarian autistic bullshit.

This is far more important.

And you are expected to cheer to grow more irrelevant and want everyone to join the federation. See how sick this is?

>>25475

4) The federation is fagoty in its fagot ideology.

Its like space pacifist fagots and space environmentalists fagots got mixed together and where consolidated in the most lawful stupid way possible.

Picard is the prime fagot on this, the federation(or SF) decides to make some super phase cloak in secret violating some treaty with a hostile government what do you do:

A) keep your mouth shut to help your government and ultimately yourself?

B) Actively help your government by doing everything you can to give every advantage to your own government to help your government and yourself, basically lie and fake logs to the enemy.

C) Not only report this to a hostile and paranoid enemy empire you give them this technology.

If you answered C you are the living manifestation of betrayal and the biggest faggot who ever lived, you are literally captain Sweden by sabotaging yourself and your government for some stupid treaty (Why exactly can we not have this technology?!).

You see the problem here don't you? And why the federation with its multi racial ultra fagotry reminds me of modern leftists only on steroids?

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Phasing_cloaking_device

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/The_Pegasus_(episode)

Try to defend these actions, they are clearly treasonous and literally acting against your own interests especially that Romulans are paranoid fuck nuggets who will never repay you for your generosity.

Picard is the ultimate cuck, especially how the federation still needs to beg the Romulans to allow the federation to use cloaking technology even on DS9. If this is not cucking I don't know what is.

Then we have the space environmentalist fagots, the federation refuses to genocide every species that is on one of the planets they control or utilize resources (Star Trek insurrection).

Whats this some primitives are on one of my planets?

Hmm I can study them for fun if this will be beneficial = observe, fuck with them by pretending to be gods and see what happens, after they get to the point where their tech is threatening to me simply restart their technology by bombarding all cities and watching them rebuild it Mad Max style.

Or I can simply genocide these fuckers of my planet and use it for living of Humans or for its own resources.

The only rule is you are not allowed to is don't uplift a species so that it would pose a danger to the Empire you can fuck with them genocide them or watch them burn if you like.

Seriously Insurrection is a perfect example of this some planet has some resource that will benefit everyone in the federation you need to work together with the other space Xenos because they have the tech.

Why the fuck are you interested in saving some handful of space Amish who are not even subject to the prime directive!!??!!!

You fucked over your own people! For some aliens!

And this is the ideology of the federation betray your own people and give everything for hostile Empires or some stupid idiots(space Amish) or savages.

Seriously who did have a problem with relocating the space Amish? Its the most sissy and delicate solution if it was me i simply say:

>Oh you don't use technology, thats convenient

>Commander target all space Amish life forms and begin planetary bombardment to exterminate every last of the filth that sits on my planet.

Or the teleport them into space or disintegrate them with the teleporter whatever makes less damage to the planet and costs less for me.

If the other Xenos want these space Amish I can teleport them into prisons. They can do whatever they want with the space Amish, torture them, genocide them. I don't really give a shit. How is this my problem what happens to some space Amish.

Hell I even go to one of the cells and start mocking the space Amish.

>Oh my you don't use technology.

>how did this end up for you

>If only you did have a star ship to prevent me from annihilating you with planetary bombardment

>JeeWizzz I don't know are defense platforms to defend oneself from planetary threats important or not?

>You know what could have stopped me from exterminating you away?

>Some orbital canons or platforms to attack my ship.

>However you are right no one needs technology.

And I laugh and watch them cry.

>>25475

>The federation is a mixtures of races who all have equal voting powers

Actually there straight away is something that has been missed heavily. Federation is not equal as many would believe. It's considered far too human centric and the biggest problem is Earth. Even towards late hell even early TNG there was already growing resentment towards the Federation going on where certain worlds were actively seeking to ceed.

Up until the mid 2200's the Federation was more a NATO in space with a collection of races with equal sway. Starfleet in particular had ships basically ran by one race. Towards the late 2200's the balance of power had shifted heavily with there being mixed crews but humans taking a dominating role in the Federation fueled mostly by fear of the Klingon Empire. It is interesting to note that the Klingons at this time rightfully called out the humans as the Federation being nothing more than a human only club where they forced their own morales and ethics on other cultures despite their preaching of tolerance and respect.

Once you get to the 2300's the cracks of the Federation are starting to show. It may be at the height of it's power but it is too large and unwieldly to function properly as a state, the end result that frontier worlds often collapse into chaos while the Starfleet is often busy running erands to keep sub-species appeased. Add onto the fact it has beome decadant over the years and complacent the core of the Federation has no clue what life is like on the Frontier or how to deal with Frontier life so you see groups like the Maquis forming due to how badly the Federation is handling shit.

It is also worth noting in a state of irony that the Federation is pretty much as warlike as the Terran Empire. They "enslave" other races by offering them membership but they lean absolutely heavily on them, give them a taste of their paradise and force them to abide by their codes in order to join. Then they have that whole provoking other races to war thing with for example "The Klingon Empire wants war! Look how close their Empire is to our bases!" I kid you not nearly every if not every war the Federation has been involved in has been something they have directly caused due to their aggressive expansion.

>Klingon War

<Federation expanding towards their borders despite Klingons intentionally giving them a wide birth

>Cardassasian War

<Federation colonized badly needed resource rich worlds on frontier of Cardassian space that resulting in mass starvation in Cardassian territory forcing them to annexing neighbours so they can simply eat

>Dominion War

<Federation intrudes into Dominion space, declares hostily they will keep coming, Dominion therefore takes this as a declaration of war but even then let's the Federation make the first strike

And this shit keeps going on and on and on, repeated throughout their existance.

>>25512

>Actually there straight away is something that has been missed heavily. Federation is not equal as many would believe. It's considered far too human centric and the biggest problem is Earth.

I have a question about the Federation and Earth: why is the siege in Paris and not on another planet?

>>25512

>Actually there straight away is something that has been missed heavily. Federation is not equal

you bring this up however you never provide anything substantial to prove this.

Consider it invalid.

You have to show that Earth or humans have special voting rights (hey kind of like some states in the EU) or some shit.

Of course I'm extrapolating heavily myself from the spirit of the show. Because we know dick about how voting works in the federation.

However I think every planet gets 1 vote or it depends on the population where 1 person gets 1 vote; if you have more people you have more votes.

>called out the humans as the Federation being nothing more than a human only club

OH boy reading this in 2018.

2 independent factors:

1) The audience of the show could have problems sympathizing with a all alien crew. so this is why the majority of people in the show are humans. Also making aliens costs money.

2) you realize its like some insane feminists(because the in show explanation is that humans gravitate to SF and other races into other jobs) saying

>Why are we under represented in SF!

Its basically bitching that there are to many men or whites and demanding to push affirmative action.

Its basically moving from

"we are color blind"

to

"you must have X of this race, to many humans!"

And I know others have pointed this out in the show.

However this only makes this more of a leftist shit show.

>>25622

>because you can't reign in your autism to keep personal politics out of a fictional universe.

Wew.

>“The allegory is that we really started working on the show in earnest around the time the election was happening,” showrunner Aaron Harberts says.

https://archive.fo/Yzv1l

Oh no no no no no ahahahahaha

>CBS is denying that recent statements by “Star Trek: Discovery” co-showrunner Aaron Harberts imply that the Klingons in the upcoming series are based on supporters of President Donald Trump.

>Last week, Harberts gave an interview to Entertainment Weekly in which he discussed how current events had influenced the tone and direction of the CBS All Access series. Themes related to the show’s depiction of Klingons “are going to help us really look at certain sides of ourselves and our country,” he said.

https://archive.fo/3NyYb#selection-1199.0-1211.251

OP might be an autist but he's not wrong. Gommies on the other hand are always welcomed to free shuttle rides.

>>25474

>Impossible the federation is systemically fucked and only worked because of plot armor.

Reminder that Archer himself lived until the 28th century and came to the same conclusion.

>>25622

Fun fact

>>25622

>Tl;dr

Fun fact, the post is not even addressing communism only the multicultural government structure of the federation in contrast to everyone else who is a single race space empire.

>>25475

>The federation is shit because it denigrates humanity as nothing more then another unimportant region of the federation.

Thing is, Starfleet and all the major institutions are human dominated. Federation is basically an empire that destroys the sovereignty of other races but justifies it by calling it "democracy" and "multiculturalism".

>>26298

Just because you have a ridiculous boner for submission to authority and memes doesn't mean you can simply write off what we've seen as not representative. The government of the Federation is overwhelmingly Human, with Vulcans, Andorians and apparently some other blue man group type aliens after. Moving the goal posts and saying "even if Humans have all the military power, that's actually a bad thing!" while glorifying 40K amusingly denotes a lack of self awareness. An age of murder and slavery wherein foreigners are subject to murder and slavery as well as you are is inferior to an age of peace and prosperity wherein foreigners are tolerated and accepted. I wouldn't want some alien making policy that affected me, but I wouldn't want some Human doing that either. For the purposes of Human domination you'll just need to re-read what the man you replied to has said, there is a distinct tinge of colonialism in the Federation - the sovereignty destroying empire of integrationism. A dominion by any other name does smell as foul.

>>26328

Xenos don't exist in Star Trek. They're just aliens, mate. Maybe someone dropped that line in a dumb Mirror Universe episode or something.

>>26298

>Considering that the federation is made out of hundreds of planets unless all other planets don't have a population above 1 million total or if ST Earth has a population that will make 40K Terra (Earth) look like a empty wasteland (population in hundreds of billions on Terra; Hello exact numbers and data in 40K ) there is simply no way that humans can be dominant in the government (this is the important part).

Humans don't need to be a majority to be dominant, they just need to hold the high positions. And we consistently see them holding the highest positions, whether they're Starfleet admirals, high judges, colony leaders, and so forth.

>This literally means that humans are the ones in star fleet, humans are literally the species who is responsible for being the canon father and dying for all the other Xenos!!!!!!!

In most societies up to very recently it was the wealthy and the elite who made up the military forces, rather than a massed conscription army. Seeing as Starfleet is volunteer-only and it's made up almost entirely of officers, we can say that Starfleet officers are more like the knights of old in the social order over the conscript troops of today. Further, in all of the various media we can see that a Starfleet officer is a highly respected position, with your average Feddie citizen treating them with deference if not outright awe. The only exception to this rule are the Maquis, who are explicitly anti-elite and anti-federation, which only reinforces this paradigm.

>>26317

>The government of the Federation is overwhelmingly Human, with Vulcans, Andorians and apparently some other blue man group type aliens after

Believe those are Bolians my dude.

>Like every soldier in all of history they are cannon fodder

Jesus Christ you boomer, history didn't begin in 1914.

>I think its safe to assume that every planet is equal and I think the voting process uses 1 federation citizen = 1 vote. All other extrapolations look equally grim. This is stuff I'm trying to extrapolate from federation propaganda and I think it conveys the spirit of Gene Roddenberry and his vision of the UFP.

>how many votes your race has=how much political power you have

Right, that's why Israelis have basically zero influence over American electoral politics and no one listens to them, as they make up less than half a percent of the population and are easy to ignore…Oh no wait that's bullshit. Opinion discarded.

At best, the only valid argument you've put forwards so far is that aliens might outnumber humans in the Federation…but number of citizens doesn't translate into amount of power, especially in the paradigm of viewing the Federation as a colonial power.

>>26340

>Xenos don't exist in Star Trek.

Xeno is shorthand for non humans.

>Humans don't need to be a majority to be dominant, they just need to hold the high positions. And we consistently see them holding the highest positions, whether they're Starfleet admirals, high judges, colony leaders, and so forth.

1) Anecdotal data I want to see the statistic for the entire UFP.

2)

>Humans don't need to be a majority to be dominant,

I'm asking for the exact government structure of the UFP.

From all possible scenarios that are consistent with the spirit of Gene Roddenberry and his vision of the UFP the 1 citizen = 1 vote looks reasonable.

So yes under all of these scenarios Humans accepting more Xenos into the UFP Diminished their voting power.

3)

>And we consistently see them holding the highest positions

Hey look facts and analysis from canon >>26328

Federation council best and most optimistic interpretation 80% Xeno worst interpretation 100% Xeno " holding the highest positions" my ass.

>In most societies up to very recently it

I Interrupt your attempt at spin doctoring and simply say this we see humans constantly die in SF the red shirt is a meme at this point. We see star ships explode and star ships annihilated by hostile empires like the Borg incursion and the Dominion war.

At this point it is

<You human you swore an oath to SF now go there and die in one o of the 100 of ships used for canon father.

At best some token Vulcan die while humans are slaughtered.

>Right, that's why Israelis have basically zero influence over American electoral politics and no one listens to them

This is funny. Lets look at history and how Jews did hold power. Oh look they where treated like shit and

restricted only recently did they manage to infiltrate th media and institution and are using propaganda to indoctrinate the host population

<Jesus was a jew

<Christians for Jews

<Muh 6 gorilion

<Huh holocausts

<Muh Hitlers

<Muh Nazis

Lets look at other minorities lets say whites in south Africa. Can you say "government sponsored genocide of the white minority"?

And even Jewish influence only rests on propaganda and key people in positions and even now things are not so fun since the strings start breaking and everyone is harassing the Jews from SJW calling them racists Zionists for supporting Israel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnE1YULrqxY

TL;DW Support Israel = Support Genocide = NAZI!

Best Quote

>This only shows you are (((Israeli))) if this is your mentality

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfci2yUrcfQ

To Niggers somehow unifying all Jewish stereotypes and all white stereotypes into one and hating on Jews.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl5285w_IJs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QbjELF-8kY

Black man says

>read the protocols of elders of Zion its all true.

>The book is not anti semitic if it says the truth

https://youtu.be/VIFWbebjAp8

Black Hitter speaks!

>The Jewish Talmud created more murders of blacks then all gas chambers in Nazi Germany.

The right always hated Jews.

The Jewish control seams to be fading and only something 1 generation (boomers) did have and forced and its only a historical abnormality that will vanish when they (boomers) pass away.

Now back to the discussion of the racial compositions in the UFP.

So what exactly is your scenario here? Humans are space Jews?

>Oi Vey Its like another Eugenics War!

>You xenos need to apologize for the terrible repression you did to all humans.

>Earth was happy and prosperous until the Vulcan's invaded and created the Eugenics War!

>Humans where repressed by centuries of Vulcan repressions and discrimination.

>Khan Noonien Singh was a Vulcan!

>Watch Schindler's datapad

>>26360

>Xeno is shorthand for non humans.

In 40k. Not Star Trek. This is simple stuff, there are no xenos on Star Trek.

>>26360

>I Interrupt your attempt at spin doctoring and simply say this we see humans constantly die in SF the red shirt is a meme at this point. We see star ships explode and star ships annihilated by hostile empires like the Borg incursion and the Dominion war.

Humans die sometimes therefore they are oppressed minorities? That's your argument? You didn't actually address any part of how Starfleet officers are clearly seen as very respected and elite people by anyone who meets them. Knights and lords died in battle far more often than serfs, does that mean the serfs were really in charge? This argument is absurd.

>Lets look at other minorities lets say whites in south Africa

…And if you go just one generation back you can see that same minority being the ones in charge.And it's no as if the dindus took power by force, they just made a ruckus until the whites felt guilty enough to voluntarily abdicate.

>The Jewish control seams to be fading

I want to live in your fantasy world.

>>26360

>I want to see the statistic for the entire UFP

Your grammar is awful and you spell like a total tard - this doesn't exactly inspire confidence in your argument. "Statistics” and "data" are irrelevant anyway because it’s a FICTIONAL universe; data in this instance means whatever the writers wish for it to mean and this can be changed at any time. You're idiotically trying to apply scientific principles to a fantasy.

We get it, you like licking boots. But do you know what's funny? The Terran Empire is purpose built to represent inefficient fascism rather than simply representing fascism. Their "dog eat dog" mentality is ridiculous and has no connection to real life fascism. No ideology, no matter how far left or right, has promoted betrayal as a virtue because it isn't in any way functional. Even Nazis understood the value of loyalty, comradery, and love. By defending the Terran Empire, you're basically revealing yourself to be nothing more than a wigger who has no real understanding of far right ideology beyond the idea that you might get to hurt others with impunity. Propagandistically, you’re doing the work of your enemies for them.

>>26369

>Knights and lords died in battle far more often than serfs

This is absurd. There were far more conscripts on the battlefield than knights or nobility and nobles were more valuable as prisoners to ransom. I want to see your source for this nonsensical statement.

>>25474

>Why is it shit

It's not, the political structure and policy mechanics of the UFP were left purposefully vague so that people can't argue over the minutia, it's supposed to be perceived as a positive force in the Milky Way galaxy and if you disagree that's probably you projecting your personality onto a nebulous narrative construct.

>>27107

I like you. Have a (you), and have a nice life.

>>30318

Always a great speech. More insidious than Root Beer.

>>32192

Should see the world of the sexed universe where they waste giving Vulcan females bare bottom spankings

>>25770

Archer didn't live that long.

>>32409

Then why did you post Fantasy you ninny?

>>32409

In 40k lore, it is mentioned how humanity was united in a stellar confederation with other alien races during the Dark Age of Technology, but this was at the start of the 18th millennium on until the 25th.

>>254752

>The federation is captain Sweden of the universe in its final decaying stages however its fine because the writers say so.

I thought it was fine only because section 31 was the only thing keeping it alive.

>>32463

>>25475

>>28555

>Do something totally indefensible

<It's fine though because I was acting on the [completely retarded] values my gay government was founded on [presumably values such as "if your enemies kill your countrymen, you win"?]

And a more apt analogy for a mixed society than peas would be mashed potatoes mixed with a load of diarrhea, so eat up cuck boy.

>>27119

>It's not a plothole because the writers would rather sidestep it than address the plothole

Right

>>26369

The military is seen as a very distinguished and respected institution in America; the white working class is way overrepresented (along with Amerindians) in the military and jews way underrepresented, the white working class must be ruling America with an iron fist.

>>32192

Why compromise between these two retarded non-starters when a great example of a galactic empire is right there in the Klingons. Their system is somewhat handicapped in that they're retarded space niggers who always jump to rash conclusions but the foundational premise of their foreign policy is morally and pragmatically unimpeachable:

1) There can be military alliances and cooperation with foreign powers so far as it benefits the people of the empire and no further

2) No foreign influence on the governance of the empire is tolerated, our worlds are our own and if you don't like how they're run you can deal with it or we can smack your shit.

3) The traditions of the empire are to be respected and followed faithfully.

4) Conflict with foreign powers should be avoided but if they are unavoidable the enemy will be prosecuted until they submit or are forced to accept reasonable terms which will never compromise the sovereignty of the empire.

Of everyone in strek the Klingons by far make out the best, they have a massive homogenous empire which they control fully, the (implicitly) most powerful military in the quadrant, and they even get their cucklord buddies to sacrifice their own men and materiel to help root out the race traitors who want to sell them out to the romulans. And to add to this there seems to be a nearly complete contentment with the state of the empire's governance amongst the Klingon populace, the only one ever to complain is a halfbreed thot mutt who's the single mother to the most irritating character in the franchise this side of wesley wheaton.

>>32484

>who always jump to rash conclusions

At what point do they do this, besides when egged on by changeling infiltrators? Whenever Worf jumps to a "rash" conclusion in TNG, he's almost always right. Just think about how many shenanigans the Enterprise would have avoided if they just listened to Worf once in a while when he suggested going to Yellow Alert, or raising the shields?

Related to this, the Klingon intelligence network seems to be borderline prescient the few times we see it in action. As other anons have mentioned before, when Sisko asks Martok about intel on the Maquis cloaked missiles, he's able to just pull out a datapad and get that information in seconds. In TNG's 'Reunification,' a lowly BoP captain know's about Picard's secret mission to Romulus. The Klingons are the single most competent empire in Trek in almost every way, but they've managed to obscure this fact from everyone else using God-tier meme magic; no one pays them any mind because every Romulan, Cardassian, and Feddie citizen have it ingrained into their head that Klingons are just a bunch of lovable brutes with a penchant for honor.

>>32409

>What if Star trek is the prequal to Warhammer 40k?

The Culture is.

>>32484

While I do agree strongly that the Klingon model for foreign policy is ideal for any state, that's only one aspect of governance. Domestic policy, the institutions of government, the rights and duties of citizens, all that also needs to be considered. As we've seen in many episodes, the Klingon High Council is not an ideal governing body, as the political climate encouraged by their laws and traditions tends to lead to bloody feuds between houses, sometimes escalating into full-blown civil wars, with the Chancellor being basically powerless to address these issues before they become a problem. Both Star Trek and history show that aristocratic cliques having total control of the government is a shitshow a majority of the time.