5c45dc No.23468 [Last50 Posts]
How stupid is the idea of the Prophets?
I mean its the perfect example of writers throwing in stupid ideas to make them look alien, in the end they(writers and the Prophets) only look retarded.
>pleasure what is this
>Time what is this
>Destroy him! Or he will destroy us!
>death what is this
>pleasure what is this
its really hard to imagine anything existing without the concept of pleasure and pain.
>Time what is this
If you don't understand the concept of time you are defective.
>Destroy him! Or he will destroy us!
>death what is this
The literal fuck?
1) if you understand the concept of stooping to to exist you understand death. do your retarded
>death what is this
Makes you look retarded
2) HOW? Are you implying you the Prophets can not die?
Rating 10/10 on the absurdity pure TV bullshit.
____________________________
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e583d4 No.23474
>>23468
The thing I found worst about the Prophets was the revelations at the start of season 7.
>possess some uninvolved woman
>mind control her into marrying a man she doesn't love and bearing his kids
>once she's been bred, discard her like a piece of trash, abandoning her to pick up the pieces of her shattered life
>still the good guys, and those who disagree are literally SpaceHitlerSatan
And then there was the brainwashing of Zek, too. The Prophets really have no regard for free will.
Then again, this was the same show that tried to portray Ezri as needing to get over it and convince herself that getting slugged was a good thing. So I guess it's more that the show-writers are the ones with no regard for free will.
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0487c8 No.23477
>>23468
The problem isn't that they don't understand ideas like linear time, since they exist in a dimension where this doesn't exist. It would be like humans trying to wrap their heads around what its like to live in a truely 2 dimensional world, ie, flatlander.
The real problem is that they don't understand the concept of linear time, when they clearly work with and observe it regularly. Thats how they make their prophecies after all.
This should also have taught them what pain, pleasure and death is along with anything else needed to understand how existence is outside their wormhole.
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58860f No.23479
>>23477
> linear time,
I understand this
>, since they exist in a dimension where this doesn't exist.
I know the writers wanted to be smart however this will result in absolute impossible nonsense or simple impossibilities like them interacting with sicko.
if they can interact with linear time they should understand it perfectly like a 3D being can understand 2D and.
https://youtu.be/N0WjV6MmCyM
>It would be like humans trying to wrap their heads around what its like to live in a truely 2 dimensional world,
Then the Prophets are inferior since all more dimensions creatures only have trouble understanding only greater dimensions and understand extremely easy lesser dimensional objects.
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58860f No.23480
>>23477
>death
The death is a paradox if they don't understand what death is how do they understand how to destroy Sisko?
They make a statement to destroy him because he is a threat to them. You start to see the problem?
Regarding how you want to spin this if they don't understand what death is, why did they start talking about killing Sisko (all in the first episode)?
Do they understand death YES or NO? Whatever you chose its a contradiction.
Also another death contradiction is here.
How is Sisko threatening them? If they don't know what death is because they can not die in like ever, how exactly can Sisko threaten them?
And its not like he can be discomforting to them because if they don't understand pleasure by extension the should not understand pain or discomfort(pleasure = the absence of pain; quick exploitation of the concept).
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62af94 No.23486
Trek writers ripped off Babylon 5 poorly with the Prophets, they went from Aliens misunderstood to be Gods to just Gods. Even implying that Trek itself is just a figment of part God Sisko's imaginings.
They also lifted the Shadows (species 8472) and clearly had no idea what to do with them.
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58860f No.23491
>>23486
There is always the accusation that DS9 is a Babylon 5 ripoff.
Or the Trek writers magically got the idea for a DS9 a handful of minutes after J. Michael Straczynski bitched Babylon 5 to them.
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58860f No.23492
>>23491
>Shadows (species 8472)
I say the Shadows and species 8472 are quite different.
The Shadows are involved with the Vorlons and want to uplift the other civilizations in their own philosophical way.
Species 8472 wants to only conquer and destroy the invaders to their space.
Species 8472 lives in a different space.
Shadows live in normal space.
Also I think Species 8472 is better written at not understanding humans, I'm talking of Species 8472 not needing sleep and being quite frightened at the idea of sleep where they lose their consciousness.
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729566 No.23493
>>23468
Google: "Cryptic Aliens"
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58860f No.23498
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92712f No.23499
>>23468
The Wormhole aliens exist all throughout time simultaneously. If they are "destroyed" it could mean that they cease to exist and all the meddling they've done through time us undone and fucks up all their plans and careful machinations, like that one black guy they set up to come visit them. However, this would require them to understand linearity, which they don't seem to do…
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58860f No.23501
>>23499
>them to understand linearity, which they don't seem to do…
Yeah another problem is it.
>all throughout time simultaneously.
The idea that something exists like this is simply silly.
You need to be able to have a past and a future and present to function at all (see how somehow they can interact with Sisko in linear time somehow) if we are like a movie where we move forward, something that is not functioning like us would be forever frozen in time like a picture or a frame in a forever stopped movie.
So they exists like us or the concept is triviality easy to understand for them like us understanding 2D space while we exist in the far more complicated 3D space.
The other alternative is they are simply *dead*, frozen forever in time things.
Because this is what it means not to have a past or a future.
This what is past and future is something a animal or a jungle savage might ask.
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3a0882 No.23502
>>23501
It's not impossible to have 5th-dimensional beings that are "above" linear time, to whom history is navigable in the same way space is navigable for us. DS9's Prophets are just a very poor implementation of the idea. Slaughterhouse Five had a pretty interesting depiction of creatures kind of like the Prophets–still flawed in a lot of ways, but much less so than the Prophets, and to be fair Vonnegut was one of if not the first to bring this idea to science fiction, so it's understandable if he made a misstep here and there.
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29bd26 No.23514
>>23502
I always wanted to read that. Aren't the Tramalamadingongs in some of his other books too?
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3a0882 No.23521
>>23514
I wouldn't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were, as Vonnegut did crossovers in his works more than once; Howard Campbell, the protagonist of Mother Night, makes a cameo in Slaughterhouse.
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684e62 No.23524
>>23468
>How stupid is the idea of the Prophets?
Still makes more sense than Darmok, but that was just one episode
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df98c2 No.23526
I was okay with it when they were more wormhole aliens and not actual gods.
The idea that Sisko just stumbled upon them and shit happens is fine. But as soon as it's revealed that his father was impregnated by the midichlorians and that he's half Celestial, things got fucking stupid. If he was created by the Prophets as part of some grand master plan to, uh… seriously, what was the plan? Fuck around for seven years and then push Dukat off a cliff which somehow kills the Pah-wraiths?? … how come they didn't know who he was and how come they didn't understand his universe if they've BEEN THERE?!?
Also, the whole "we can't explain anything clearly except in vague riddles" bit got old extremely fast.
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73dd20 No.23529
HookTube embed. Click on thumbnail to play.
Sisko=Has a job. Is not superstitiously centered but fairly logical and values thinking over muh fee fees. Is a responsible single father who clearly makes time for his son. Very rarely chimps out. In general, a black man, a melanin enriched gentleman, clearly not a nigger.
Then the Prophets entered his life.
Prophets=Speaks in pretentious yet retarded riddles, like a bunch of backwards african AIDSmongering monkeyfuckers. Just hangs out at a stable wormhole like a bunch of niggers crowding a street corner and getting in the way of people who contribute to society. Has no jobs to speak of, probably claims they don't need one or even understand what a 'job' is. Tells The Sisko, that he's kinda sorta their son. Yet they were rarely there when he was growing up. Does some shit that makes The Sisko sacrifice his life, and wind up leaving his son Jake.
The evidence is plain to see. The Prophets are niggers who fucked up Sisko's life.
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c7c078 No.23534
>>23526
>>23529
This is why I it's best to just pretend Season 7 never happened. There are some good episodes here and there but anything to do with the greater season's arc is just retarded.
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5f03c2 No.23539
>>23529
>melanin enriched gentleman
>not a nigger
>>>/reddit/
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73dd20 No.23546
6ac65d, you're a champ and such a badass. I'm sure if the rahowa comes true, you'll be there leading the charge with your stupendous reading ability and your quick
>>>/reddit/
quip. Shirley the hero we deserve. Make sure you yell out that favorite battlecry of yours too, that way I know who to crown as the true Boss of the Gym.
>>23534
>There are some good episodes here and there but anything to do with the greater season's arc is just retarded.
Yeah, season 7 really was the crappy desert and stale mint bowl after a fairly good meal.
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e097c2 No.23550
>>23468
They are autism made manifest, in it's purest form.
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5205fa No.23570
>>23468
I think their universal translator was malfunctioning.
>>23474
Yeah that's far worse than what the pah wraiths ever did, yet the pah wraiths are vilified for simply having the appearance of fire. They can't help how their energy matrix looks!
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820267 No.23577
>>23468
>If you don't understand the concept of time you are defective.
The prophets do comprehend time they just are confused when Sisko describes it as moving linearly. The fact it only goes in one direction and can't just jump around whenever they want is what confuses them. It's why they're confused when Sisko describes a game of baseball because to them it's nonsense.
>>23526
> But as soon as it's revealed that his father was impregnated by the midichlorians and that he's half Celestial, things got fucking stupid. If he was created by the Prophets as part of some grand master plan to, uh… seriously, what was the plan? Fuck around for seven years and then push Dukat off a cliff which somehow kills the Pah-wraiths?? … how come they didn't know who he was and how come they didn't understand his universe if they've BEEN THERE?!?
This actually made sense to me specifically because the wormhole aliens have no concept of linear time. To them Sisko's birth and him discovering the wormhole aliens are more or less the same thing. The way I interpreted it was Sisko discovered the wormhole aliens and they seemingly created Sisko at the same time in-order for him to become their Emissary. I interpreted it as them modifying history so Sisko would better fir their prophecy but that was just my interpretation.
>>23529
DS9 has a lot of religious metaphors and it's clear Sisko was supposed to metaphorically die in the final episode so he could tie into the concept of rebirth that appears in most religions. Since he essentially becomes a Prophet. However they ended it with a stinger saying Sisko might come back.
This was apparently not in the original script but was something Avery Brooks added in right before shooting because he realized that the character was a black man who was abandoning his wife and baby and that it would ruin the perception of Sisko to the audience.
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f83a6d No.23628
>>23577
Sisko was leaving to become the Prophet of the Pimps and come back and bitchslap Kassidy Yates.
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fa31d7 No.23658
>>23546
Good news guys, I found the nigger.
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73dd20 No.23661
>found the nigger.
Looking at a mirror again? The concept of reflections among lower apes like you is hard, huh. Don't worry chimp, just keep trying and one day you'll get it.
>>23577
>DS9 has a lot of religious metaphors
The problem isn't that DS9 has a lot of religious metaphors. It's that in season 7 a lot of it is just poorly written and not very well thought out. Other than the fiery appearance and the Prophets words that the Pah Wraiths are evil. Something that the Prophets themselves really have no grounds to pontificate on with their own actions. Not to mention, the ambiguity of whether or not the Prophets are actual gods or wormhole aliens was a lot more interesting than yeah they're literal gods.
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16918d No.23666
>>23661
> the ambiguity of whether or not the Prophets are actual gods or wormhole aliens was a lot more interesting than yeah they're literal gods.
Same with Sisko himself. Secular Feddie that he is, he wasn't really secure in his position as a religious icon for the Bajorans, and tried to distance himself from it. But at the same time, he found himself almost forced back into his role as Emissary by pragmatism–as was the case when they pulled that old guy out of the wormhole who demanded a return to the caste system–or sheer existential necessity, such as when he negotiated with the Prophets to seal the wormhole and get rid of the armada of 2800 Jem'Hadar ships about to come through. Seventh season removed that struggle, and with it a lot of nuance, to turn Sisko into full-on Space Jesus that goes on a spiritual quest to find a holy artifiact on a goddamn desert planet. That alone is a pretty big blow to characterization, making him half Prophet just adds insult to injury.
Offtopic, but I just have to add that I really like the way that Star Trek Online handled that Dominion armada–instead of the Prophets vaporizing it or something, they just had them come out ~40 years in the future. This is actually a pretty smart way of doing it, because it plays to the Prophet's nonlinear time hoolabaloo, while simultaneously keeping them from looking like godlike beings who can destroy entire fleets just like that. Big parts of the rest of the game are MMO-tier but that sequence was good shit, even a good part of it was just "hey, remember when this happened in DS9?" fanservice.
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73dd20 No.23672
>>23666
>to turn Sisko into full-on Space Jesus that goes on a spiritual quest to find a holy artifiact on a goddamn desert planet.
Thanks for jogging that memory of a very shitty episode and season, Satan.
>that Star Trek Online handled that Dominion armada–instead of the Prophets vaporizing it or something, they just had them come out ~40 years in the future. This is actually a pretty smart way of doing it, because it plays to the Prophet's nonlinear time hoolabaloo,
Hell, that's not bad.
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df98c2 No.23709
>>23666
>Talks about Space-Jesus while sporting the trips of the Antichrist
This is just too perfect.
Also, that episode ALMOST worked, if only it had turned out to be a completely futile effort and Sisko never found the stupid artifact. Maybe make it so that he never needed it in the first place, that he just had to search inside himself or some shit. The part where he was a madman digging through sand leaving his old man behind to nearly die of heatstroke to fuel his delusions was okay; the part where he was proven justified was not.
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7975bd No.23734
>>23672
>Hell, that's not bad.
STO in a nutshell until you get to the ground combat.
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16918d No.23738
>>23734
And the PvP. Musn't forget the pay-to-win, lootbox-driven PvP.
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73dd20 No.23767
>>23738
>Musn't forget the pay-to-win, lootbox-driven PvP.
PvP never interested me in those types of games, but jesus fuck someone needs to emulate what Kevin did to the Husnocks out of p2win and lootbox 'it's not gambling tho' gambling. Without remorse.
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44a68b No.23877
>>23524
>Darmok
Totally agree.
Darmok was a complete disaster in the solution.
No language can function like this.
The idea of it was solid (the universal translators fail or the language is not magically translated on fist contact because it is to alien) the solution to the problem and the explanations was a terrible disaster.
The explanation was far more stupid then the prophets however like you did say:
>, but that was just one episode
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44a68b No.23878
>>23570
>I think their universal translator was malfunctioning.
Congratulations this is by far the most intelligent solution to the whole episode.
I OP congratulate you, bravo to you sir.
There is nothing anyone can say to debunk this theory.
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44a68b No.23879
>>23577
> can't just jump around whenever
You started nicely however flawed.
Are you confused by super Mario brothers(inset any 2D game here)?
The concept that you only have Up/Down Left/Right is far easier to understand for a 3D being.
The extrapolation of this is that beings of far grater dimensions will not have problems understanding us.
>describes a game of baseball because to them it's nonsense.
And you failed here.
Is SMB confusing for you?
its actually far simpler to understand and visualize then 3D games.
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afde32 No.23880
>>23767
Kevin did nothing wrong btw
Other than let his wife die I mean
>>23879
They're so far above us that even their ability to misunderstand things is beyond our comprehension
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39dd87 No.24167
>>23767
>>23738
Nobody play PvP on STO anymore. Don't kid yourself.
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729566 No.24220
>>23468
>he doesn't like ancient aliums
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9a234e No.24384
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729566 No.26804
>>23474
She is always marrying the man, constantly getting her shit together, and The Sisko is being born now.
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62af94 No.26945
>>23879
That's actually a good argument… for the other side.
If you started playing a game and encountered the "right" issue, you'd probably be all "wtf do you mean I am blocked by a completely-decorative background object."
To a 2D being this would be normal because there is no "background" or depth… and… you missed that.
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c2a9a8 No.27224
>>23493
>Cryptic Aliens
But OP isn't complaining that they're cryptic. He's complaining that they're retarded.
>>26945
He's arguing that a 3D person has no problem understanding 2D reality. Of course the 2D person would not understand the 3D person's perspective directly: being able to see through walls, being able to look at the the 2D person's top, left, right, bottom, and guts all at once. The 3D person, on the other hand, should be able to understand 2D reality, perhaps after a few boneheaded faux pas where he expected Mario to see through walls or whatever.
Pic related to both posts.
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729566 No.27231
>>27224
Stupid Aliens then.
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1d43f5 No.27232
>>23661
What did you expect? Ronald D. Moore did the same lame reglious non-sense with nu-BSG. DS9 is just the proto nu-BSG.
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35a229 No.27233
>>27232
That saves me wasting time watching BSG then.
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bfaa35 No.27236
It starts out pretty entertaining, actually. You just have to be able to quit when you notice it getting overly silly.
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729566 No.27238
>>27233
>>27232
>religious non-sense
You do realize that the original 1970s BSG was largely based on Mormonism right?
Removing all religious references and focus from nu-BSG would be like remaking Star Wars without the force and lightsabers.
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58e9a0 No.27243
>>27238
>would be like remaking Star Wars without the force and lightsabers.
I have some bad news.
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054362 No.27250
>>27238
>original 1970s BSG was largely based on Mormonism
Oldfag Galactica has plenty of weak points, but the religious-allegory aspect isn't really a problem since it isn't rubbed in your face. You'd have to be a Mormon already to clue in on it.
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729566 No.27251
>>27250
If you're masochistic you should watch Galactica 1980 sometime.
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afcc43 No.27256
>>23534
Paper Moon is pure scifi and is the only time Ezri is likeable.
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8e6ffb No.27259
>>27256
Are you fucking kidding? This episode is 1000x better than the boring "nog being a cunt" episode.
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649283 No.27260
>>27256
I don't even remember what she did in that episode.
>>27259
That was a very interesting episode but I can't bring myself to call a dyke haircut likeable.
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afcc43 No.27270
>>27260
exactly.
>>27259
Boring? it was an examination of what it means to live in reality, set in a well established arc for a secondary character. Sorry that classic Science Fiction is too boring for you
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61c131 No.27276
>>27260
>That was a very interesting episode but I can't bring myself to call a dyke haircut likeable.
Hey, ain't nothing wrong with a cute lil' reverse-trap. Especially when she's hiding these under her uniform.
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dfc653 No.27319
>>27276
It's not a "reverse trap" if she has tits you fucking moron.
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61c131 No.27329
>>27319
A reverse trap can absolutely have tits, she just needs to have their true size mostly hidden when wearing her normal outfit. And Ezri's standard uniform definitely minimized their apparent size.
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