b6d9f1 No.16384 [Last50 Posts]
What does /strek/ think of General Order Numbah 1? There are a few different interpretations of it that we see in the shows; for example, The PD would normally have kept Picard from involving himself in the Klingons picking the new Chancellor, but he was allowed to do it because a Klingon civil war might, possibly, affect the Federation's alliance with the Klinks. What's the /strek/-approved, if any, interpretation?
____________________________
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
c4e78a No.16385
break the prime directive if it's good for the federation, follow it if it doesn't matter
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
b3a872 No.16386
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
a72399 No.16387
To paraphrase a pirate: These Directives are more what you'd call Guidelines.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
bfb6ad No.16466
>>16385
Break the Prime Directive compulsively, even in situations when it causes trouble later down the line, just to make the point clear.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
4d15bc No.16468
>asteroid headed for planet
<"we cannot interfere with their natural development"
>everybody dies
<"praise Darwin!"
Also, let's talk about why a post-scarcity society doesn't seem to allow infinite numbers of refugees from shithole planets to immigrate
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
c4363e No.16470
>Genetic disease killing billions, species doomed to extinction
>Go to the trouble of synthesizing a cure
>immediately destroy the cure
>"get fucked lmao, they deserve it for being genetically inferior."
The Prime Directive hadn't even been written at that point, which makes it worse. At least later captains could just say their hands were tied and be done with it. This was Archer exercising his personal moral judgement that billions of deaths and the annihilation of an entire species were worth it to save… absolutely nothing.
>>16468
>>asteroid headed for planet
Consider:
>ship mines resources from an asteroid, slightly changing its orbit in the process
>turns out asteroid was on a collision course with a pre-warp planet, but no longer is
>by moving the asteroid they interfered with the natural development of the planet and its cultures
Does the PD require them to deliberately set the asteroid back on a collision course? After all, that is the only solution in which events proceed as they would have had the ship never been there.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
b6d9f1 No.16472
>>16468
>>16470
I'm pretty sure shit like the asteroid would be given a pass, because you're not actively interfering in development, and the people on the surface don't have any way of knowing what happened.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
141338 No.16494
>implying the line between contacting pre-warp and post-warp cultures isn't entirely arbitrary
>implying aliens wouldn't be rightfully upset that someone could have cured a plague but didn't out of smugness
>implying it's at all feasible to blockade a pre-warp world for millenia to prevent private individuals from making contact
>implying the Federation has the balls to shoot down shuttles that intend to make contact
PD a shit, unenforceable, and unfeasible.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
f149ea No.16495
iirc I believe the Klingons were bound to something similar to the PD due to the Treaty of Organia. I wonder how theirs pans out?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
a72399 No.16510
>>16470
I really feel as if the whole "interfering with other cultures thing" reached its head with the VOY episode Year of Hell. Finally, you get the chance to see what happens when someone with the power to actually change reality through fucking with time can do by altering one little asteroid, and the results are decidedly not pretty. In a significant way, the various parts of the series which invoke it only make it clear how untenable and useless a concept it is.
Heisenburg proved that you can't even OBSERVE something, without changing it. The Federation simply must recognize that it's going to fuck things up just by existing, just by looking, just by zipping around in their ships that may-or-may-not permanently damage the fabric of spacetime. The idea of the PD is cute and all, but in practice is most likely replaced with a variation of the Hippocratic Oath. Help, if possible, or at least try not to do any harm.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
2cd6ca No.16530
>>16470
Archer usually made good decisions.
He was in the wrong with this.
Those ape fucks were retarded, he doomed a sophisticated culture and desperate people to their slow deaths.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
437039 No.16531
>>16510
Heisenberg's uncertainty principle != The observer effect. The are somewhat related on a superficial level, but the uncertainty principle is a fundamental property of all wave-like systems.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
9db441 No.16549
>>16384
Honestly I think it's just a ruse so that the Federation doesn't get it's hands into too many pies. There are thousands of cultures and species out there, do you really want to be affiliated with, indebted to, or honored by all of them?
I'm sure we've all helped a homeless person on the street before, but what about the next one you see after that? And what if there was a third one after that? Do you actually go and help everyone you see that's down on their luck? No, because while I'm sure a lot of us like to do nice things for others, you literally can't help everyone and honestly everyone has better things to do or else you'd be doing some shit like working for some altruistic Jew scheme charity organization.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
bfb6ad No.16551
>>16549
The Prime Directive does make sense if you assume it was a way for Star Fleet to stop their captains jumping into every conflict they found and acting like a 13 year old from a wealthy gated community trying to calm down an argument between two drug dealers because 'come on guys, can't we all just be friends? Also mom says drugs are bad, m'kay; and can you please stop swearing so much, good people don't swear.'. Just imagine what the average Star Fleet captain would be doing for every day of if they didn't have the PD to tell them to shut up, sit down, and get on with their assigned mission? I mean, just look at how much trouble they do cause even with the Prime Directive.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
32b46a No.16603
>>16384
The Prime Directive's just some space commie "colonialism was bad" Utopian bullshit. It's an entirely self-serving policy (don't give the Indians muskets, because then they'll shoot us) couched in altruism.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
7dd597 No.16606
>>16384
>Picard from involving himself in the Klingons picking the new Chancellor, but he was allowed to do it because a Klingon civil war might, possibly, affect the Federation's alliance with the Klinks. What's the /strek/-approved, if any, interpretation?
PD only applies to non-warp species.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
b6d9f1 No.16607
>>16606
I'm pretty sure that, in the episode in question, some admiral told Picard that internal Klingon politics were a Klingon matter and not Federation, citing the PD. Could be wrong though.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
90842e No.16608
>>16468
>let's talk about why a post-scarcity society doesn't seem to allow infinite numbers of refugees from shithole planets to immigrate
Because you don't want shitty people shitting up your Space Utopia.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
19e504 No.16610
prime directive is for starfleet
section 31 handles everything that matters
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
5a82f1 No.16612
>>16470
Isn't that plot a thinly veiled Breen origin story?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
7dd597 No.16641
>>16607
sounds like shitty continuity or writing. PD explicitly applies to non-warp species so they can develop free of interference from galactic society.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
a159cd No.16643
Must suck for younger races knowing that you've finally developed warp drive then discover you are immediately outclassed by everyone and there is a big overweight girlfriend waiting to snatch you up and invite you to her furry poetry reading club.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
f01137 No.16651
>>16641
In TOS, it's only for pre-warp species. In the episode with the cloud city they do say that the Federation/Starfleet cannot interfere in Fed Planet's planetary matters.
In TNG, the PD was expanded to include pre-warp species and a general non-interference directive for other planets/states.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
24849f No.16686
>>16468
It was more about not forcing every planet they encountered to live by the Federation's rules. Not every species can just be uplifted and made to instantaneously live in the euphoric age of post-scarcity neo-turbo-communism. The Klingons are a perfect example of this. Starfleet officers start pearl clutching and tutting at the concept of people solving their quarrels with physical violence. Klingons are happy starting fights and killing each other over petty matters of honor. They only got worse when their empire expanded to the point of them having to interact with other races, making diplomatic backstabbing and underhanded lawyering become an element of a society where they used to solve their problems by bashing each other's heads in… and they managed to create a warp capable civilization while doing that!
Now imagine if Starfleet showed up a few hundred years earlier and said, "We're going to stop all your wars, give you replicators and transporters, and you have to follow our way of life, of peaceful exploration and listening to classical music to prove how evolved and cultured we are!"
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
88e5e9 No.16737
>>16643
>Be un-contacted Alpha Quadrant species with a long and proud history.
>Your finest minds spend their lives struggling to uncover the secrets of the galaxy.
>Finally someone gets a brainwave and puts forwards an idea for something called a 'warp drive'.
>It sounds ludicrous at first, but the mathematics behind it are solid and people start to get excited.
>A golden age is ushered in as new jobs and industries are created to support the construction of the first warp capable spacecraft your species has produced.
>Eventually the ship is ready.
>The world stands in awe, watching as the Warp Class Vessel, Designation 001 fires up its experimental dilithium reactor.
>The whole species cheers as one as they see that it doesn't just explode (as the naysayers claimed it would).
>WCV001 seems to stretch out to infinity before vanishing from view.
>It reappears a few hours later explaining that it has the sensor logs to prove that it just traveled at light speed to the outer edge of your solar system and returned intact.
>Planet wide party until a giant warship appears in orbit above the homeworld.
<Hey, so you primitives finally managed to get to warp speed, isn't that great.
<So now you're ready to join our Empi … I mean Federation
<We'll supply you with all the new laws we've written for you, and tell you who your new friends and enemies are in the galaxy.
<Oh, and the federation is in about 4 different wars right now, so we're going to need you guys to start pulling your weight … kind of a dick move on your part to have taken this long to get to the point where we feel OK in conscripting you … it really feels like we shouldn't have to ask.
>A brave soul finally manages to get a commlink with this strange invader and begins negotiating on behalf of your species and civilization
<What do you mean you never asked to join any federation? Do you have any idea how fucking dangerous it is out there?
<What if we told the Klingons, or the Cardassians, or the motherfucking Borg about you guys, you'd be completely defenseless, especially after we photon torpedoed your main industrial facilities.
<I was only joking about nuking you guys back into the stone-age, don't worry!
<But you should seriously stop your bitching and agree to our terms.
Such diplomacy, much progress.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
19e504 No.16747
HookTube embed. Click on thumbnail to play.
>>16737
this is literally cannon
Troy:Remember they have a significantly less advanced technology than hours, they only achieved warp drive last year.
Crusher: .. and the federation council decided to make them a protectorate so quickly?
Picard: Due to our losses to the borg and the dominion the council feels we need all the allies we can get these days.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
4cb14b No.18218
>>16747
Federation is literally the Borg.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
156974 No.18225
HookTube embed. Click on thumbnail to play.
>>18218
its so bubbly, and cloy, and happy
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
364110 No.18253
>>18225
Such a great scene.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
a1428c No.18315
>>18225
This is what you get if you let a fucking replicator produce soda. I bet it tastes like dollar-store knockoff-brand "Root Beer". Like overly-sweet cola with a bare hint of weak spice. Goddammit, a real root beer would knock their fucking socks off.
It makes me wish they had some kind of Dax-like human character, who lived for several hundred years, just to show up every once in a while and tell them how they were getting everything wrong. Can you imagine what their replicated coffee tastes like? Or the synthehol beer?
On that note, you would THINK that "Klingon coffee" would be something that would quite nearly KILL any human who attempted to drink it. But no, those pansy-ass Feddies down cupfuls of raktajino like it's water. They've probably casualized it into something resembling a Starbucks house-blend latte.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
bd7483 No.18326
>>16607
That's less Prime Directive and more sensible Post-Westphalian politics.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
bd7483 No.18328
>>16747
Oh wow, because I never watched TNG, I never realized this existed. Wow. Fucking Wow.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
bd7483 No.18330
>>16747
Ooohh thats a movie. Production qualities are way too high otherwise.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
156974 No.18333
>>18330
>calling Insurrection a movie
well at least it isn't a Jew-Jew Abrams movie
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
45e240 No.18350
>>18225
Quark was such a great character.
>>18315
Would it really taste that bad? True rootbeer is actually poisonous in large quantities so even "high shelf" stuff uses artificial flavoring. If a replicator could replicate complex things like glass or fully formed instruments and metal, I'd think it could handle some simple organic compounds.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
c5b0e2 No.18392
>>16737
>>16747
>Two months after ‘joining’, another ship comes back
>”By the way, you guys don’t need money anymore! We’ll um, just be taking it. Those dumb ferengi have guns and stuff and they really want that silly money to give it to us. You don’t need it anymore though. Same deal as before. Give us all the money or pew pew.”
>Massive poverty
>People wait in line at public replicators
>Energy is heavily rationed for the war effort
>Two-thirds of the fighting age population (male and female, the federation was quite insistent on the point both genders would be conscripted as a sign of ‘progress’) are forced off-planet to fight the Dominion. Casualties are high. There is minimal knowledge transfer to them aside from operating the machines, as “the Federation doesn’t want to interfere with your development.”
>All your best scientists are removed and sent to research stations far away. Many of them are bought off by the cushy life on earth. None will return.
>When they see the high number of your race among the dead, the Founders decide to make an example of you. A Jem’hadar ship loaded with biological weapons launches an attack. A deadly plague ravages the country.
>Your ruling council, which has reigned on the planet for thousands of years, wants to drop out of the war
>A vote is scheduled
>The federation leads a ‘democratization’ campaign, installing nigger-tier minorities into a puppet government after the bloody and vicious complete annihilation of the cherished ruling council.
>nigger-tiers riot and loot everything.
>A rebellion begins
>Section 31, paranoid as fuck, declares it a Founder insurgency
>Klingons arrive and push your shit in, hard.
>At the end of the Dominion War, your population is maimed, sick, and run by niggers
>The Federation sends a Starfleet Captain to help ‘rebuild’
>It has enough firepower to wipe out every city
>She becomes the de facto ruler
>She’s an unstable lunatic who violates the Federation’s own rules whenever it suits her.
>When she retires, another ship with another captain comes to continue ‘rebuilding.’
>Things stabilize, but part of that is banning ‘injustice’ which curiously seems like just replacing all your customs and removing all taboos.
>The Federation spends an inordinate effort telling your people how your gods are fake and your religion is shit and holding you back. They still won’t give you how to make a drive capable of going warp five.
>the Warp Speed project is remembered as the greatest mistake your race ever made
>Or it will be for a generation. The youth of the next generation are already telling you how awful life was, and how cruel we were to the nigger-tiers before the Federation, and how the Federation had done so much for all of us.
>”That’s what they say at school, grandpa, and it has to be true. By the way, this is Tak’Bur. His father fought against the awful Dominion supporters on the planet during the war. He’s fucking me. I’m a girl now too btw.”
>The first warp flight is marked by a celebration every year.
>The celebration is called “Federation Day” in order to appease the distant overlords, but everyone wears green and white
>For your people, these are the traditional colors of mourning.
>Of your people, it’s about the only thing that’s left.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
e117c2 No.18396
>>18392
>Klingons were the only race to see this shit coming during the founding of the Federation
>Feds to this day wonder why the Klingons wanted to kick their shit in
You know a Trek series told from the pov where the Feds are the bad guys would be glorious.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
1aec60 No.18425
>something's going to kill a planet
>oh its just their natural development
>let it die
>having diplomatic relations with aliens
>somehow not considered to be influencing their natural development
>first contact
>implying it doesn't alter natural development
>implying anything but the aliens randomly stumbling onto the Federation and introducing themselves could be considered legal
>observation outposts get discovered
>THE PICARD becomes God to proto-vulcans with his alpha command of slave crewmen
>still insists on the prime directive as if the damage had not already been done
>as if the problem was just gonna disappear if they ignored it
It's a fully retarded directive and its interpretation just makes things even worse.
The do's and don'ts of space society are better covered with the usual ethical principles. It's OK to go in and save a people from certain destruction by natural disaster since anything is preferable to that, but obviously don't go into a planet and recreate Nazi Germany there with yourself as ruler. When your guys get in trouble with aliens you should probably go there and try to help out so that they don't execute your crew, but obviously don't go there and start shoving your own culture down their throats. Don't give fucking weapons to warring peoples.
Federation needs actual specific laws, not some "prime directive" that's somehow supposed to catch everything. You might as well name it the "just don't be a shit" directive.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
b3a872 No.18427
Oh jeez, people actually kept talking about this.
I thought it was common knowledge that everyone hates the Prime Directive? Not once have I ever seen anyone say something positive about it, just that it's a stupid excuse for the protagonists not to intervene in something that they could really influence. The key word is "stupid", because it usually boils down to:
>well, the Prime Directive said we can't do that
>we might as well sit on our asses and do nothing then
And that's just poor writing.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
bca022 No.18429
>>18392
>literally worse than the borg
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
4a8732 No.18445
>>18429
>be borg drone
>member of fast-moving hive mind
>instead of losing identity, it is massively augmented.
>all thoughts in the hivemind feel like your thoughts.
>boundless insight, creativity, and knowledge are all available to you
>what you contribute and what you passively watch is impossible to comprehend
>You build borg cubes, solve complex problems, conquer alien races, map stars, comprehend new realms of existence
>it’s like a let’s play of the universe where you are in the mind of the game player. You are the game player. You are so much more than you.
>suddenly disconnected
>a bunch of smiling faggots in stupid uniforms smiling at you
>”we freed you! you have your identity back now: your name was Bert, and your lack of connections at starfleet had you destined for a low-level career. And guess what? Now you can go shovel shit on a power facility on Mars! Here’s your shovel!
>Go live on Mars
>Receive rations of food and energy and live in austere quarters
>Crew are vapid, and despite degeneracy they are all lonely and isolated
>Get some time on holodeck between shifts as only form of entertainment, can’t lay down anywhere because everything is stained in cum
>Can’t contemplate great mysteries
>Not a part of something big
>You were once so much more
>Now you are Bert
>Miss collective
>Miss the real you
>But that’s gone
>The Federation ‘liberated’ you
>Now you are a real drone
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
6cbf43 No.18460
>>18315
>They've probably casualized it into something resembling a Starbucks house-blend latte.
Hit the nail on the head. Federation nutritional advisors agreed to tone down the caffeine content of Raktajino from approximately 4000mg of caffeine per cup to a level a human can tolerate without medical risk. We were unfortunately denied the scene where Worf had his first cup of properly made, hand ground, artisan, Raktajino - and spent the next few days sweating profusely and speaking at accelerated speed with heavily dilated pupils while other Klingons laughed behind his back and continued feeding their children grandmas blend of milk, alcohol, and amphetemine
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
51bb22 No.18475
>>18315
>>18460
>raktajino
I'm not typing all that shit out again so see >>9109
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
24849f No.18477
>>18315
First they strip the food of all 'unhealthy' materials, then they replace it with assorted healthy artificial compounds that they swear tastes just like the original. After years of eating that shit, people get fed up and try and alter the recipe so it tastes a little better, but replicator protocols have to keep it healthy, so they can only do so much. By the time the new recipes and programs start circulating, nothing tastes at all like it should, but people who subsist on replicated food don't even know the difference anymore.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
b7d3aa No.18529
>>18445
>>18429
Leaving aside that as a Borg, "you" are nothing more than part of their server farm, and therefore "you" did none of those things of your own will…
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
c92007 No.18534
>>18529
You’re a brain cell. Your contribution is the same as the others. But your experience of being is likely to be that of the entire Collective at once, which given all the shit they are up to is probably pretty damned amazing.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
1d17aa No.18543
With all this talk about subversion and the prime directive how would SJW's ever live in the 24th century?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
6cbf43 No.18552
>>18534
>But your experience of being is likely to be that of the entire Collective at once
going to have to ask you for a source there.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
c276da No.26318
>>16510
In VOY 3x05 False Profits - Janeway wastes a chance to get back to the Alpha Quadrant because she chose to interfere with the Ferengi to stop them breaking the prime directive.
The prime directive sounds good in theory, but doesn't always make sense in practice.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
eb3946 No.26326
>>18392
I assume Janeway is in charge of rebuilding.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
e91cec No.26329
>>16384
PD in TOS was like on Star Gate (especially on Atlantis) interact with primitives give them little help however don't give the fuckers advanced weapons! See http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/A_Private_Little_War_(episode)
And Star Gate all Genii episodes
http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Genii
Technological level of 1920s
>You! Give us nukes now REEEEE!!!
TNG PD is pure insanity.
like
>>16468
More actual dialog from TNG paraphrased
>You want me to save these people from these disasters?
>What gives us the right!
>That would make us GODS!!!11111ONEONEONEONE
Pure insanity.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
630885 No.26332
>>18392
>Give us all the money or pew pew.
Nice funny meme however this statement is absurd, giving money to whoever is meaningless since this is not how money works and it will be 100% useless to the federation. This should only be a minor problem for any civilization that is not using gold for money or is not inside of a nightmarish complicated "money credit debt structure" where the usurers and capitalists will throw shit and blow up the economy in rage if the game(economy) of hot potato musical chairs stops in a situation they don't like.
The government can print new money.
Remember the Tulip mania, only other people give value to really meaningless things.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
66c8d7 No.26339
>>16651
I think I missed that discussion in the episode with the cloud city. I was a little distracted.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
66c8d7 No.26341
>>18392
>>She’s an unstable lunatic who violates the Federation’s own rules whenever it suits her.
Pic related?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
66c8d7 No.26346
>>18225
>>18253
That scene is gold. I love the way that Garak grinned while he said "It's insidious", as if he was one professional spy congratulating another on a job well done in subtle cultural subversion.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
399749 No.26353
>>18427
The prime directive is fine when applied to planets where they're too damn primitive to even comprehend that the strange being who have come from the sky are just people from far away and not gods. And to prevent situations where primitives get flat out exploited by other advanced races. But once they're developed enough to actually ask other planets for help, the directive shouldn't apply. Like the "dear doctor" episode of Enterprise was just fucking awful. Those people made an organized effort to travel into space specifically looking for people to help them, that means they're clearly ready for first contact regardless of having FTL travel. There's also the whole problem of having the warp drive as the be all end all qualifier of advancement. What happens when you find an otherwise advanced culture that just has no desire or need to expand beyond a few nearby planets of their solar system and never felt a reason to create FTL travel?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
399749 No.26354
>>26341
don't be silly, she was canonically promoted to Admiral the very second she got back to the alpha quadrant.
>my head canon is that in the 31st century temporal agents don't argue over the morality of killing baby Hitler, but instead argue over whether or not it's acceptable to kill baby Janeway.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
bb0597 No.26362
>>26341
>>26354
>Janeway MEME
I like Voyager abridged like everyone else. However remember Canon Janeway is the best example of a stable captain everyone else is bat shit insane.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
399749 No.26364
>>26362
No, the meme is that she's insane, or outright evil, the canon is that she's incompetent and wildly inconsistent. Frankly the crew wasn't insane enough given the circumstances and mostly turned into generic star fleet peons after a while. She's as bad as Archer except Archer at least had the excuse of having no baseline standards for a star fleet captain to work from.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
bb0597 No.26365
>>26364
>the canon is that she's incompetent and wildly inconsistent.
Can you give a list of her inconsistency?
I like to see it.
And I bet it has nothing on Picards position on the prime directive its flip flopping so hard that its rotating at the speed of light at this point.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
bb0597 No.26367
>>26364
>Archer
Now these are some big shoos to fill.
Are we talking captain
>I made a cure for you
>fuck you I'm not giving you because reasons
>Now I burned it!
>Have fun getting extinct!
Or
>Let me bring my dog to your holy tree.
>What you don't allow animals there?
>Fuck you!
>Whats this you don't like my dog pissing on your religious icon?
>Fuck you!
>And if something happens to my dog I will pee on your tree personally and show you a TRUE diplomatic incident!
The man was capable of burning bridges and making enemies like no one ever in trek.
It says something that the parody scenario in >>16737 and >>18392 looks like a actual improvement from canonical Archer dialog.
https://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/e130.php
Archer is officially the most insane captain and Janeway is a paragon of sanity, says the Trek MEME man.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
66c8d7 No.26373
>>26362
>However remember Canon Janeway is the best example of a stable captain
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
aea7b3 No.26377
>>26373
OK can you name examples of episodes where she acts insane?
>[literally no facts given]
>[are you seriously asking me to explain my position]
The Janeway is bad MEME was started by SF Debris a mental and insane leftists who sidesteps into crazy rants and injects his leftists shit into everything or screams at nothing.
(my personal favorite is when he sidesteps in his review to talk about how whites are not allowed to call blacks "boy" because thats racist ;nothing in the episode he reviewed even hinted at this)
If it is so prevalent you can clearly show canon episodes where she behaves wrongly or insanely.
While you act in disbelieve I leave you with a episode to consider:
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Prime_Factors_(episode)
Can you name anyone in trek who acted more diplomatically and intelligently and was more calm in the negotiation then Janeway in this episode?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
ab5a42 No.26380
>>16384
I like the anti-imperialist notion of it, but the problem is progress always hits you hard. No civilization progresses throughout history without wars, revolutions, slavery, genocide. Our comfortable living standard were only made possible with colonialism, mass impoverishment and two world wars. At that point the prime directive becomes a bit silly because you are basically preventing them from peacefully progressing towards the space age. And since only the Feds care about it, what prevents other species from exploiting underdeveloped races? Posing as their gods, enslaving them?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
ab5a42 No.26381
>>18218
Actually, the Federation tolerates cultural idoms more than any other power. I would say there is difference between the Federation and Star Fleet. Star Fleet is a homo sapiens club, with their values represented only, but I can't really recall the Federation enforcing their values on others. I would have liked being in the Federation.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
66c8d7 No.26382
>>26377
>OK can you name examples of episodes where she acts insane?
Sure, I think all 171 of them are listed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Trek:_Voyager_episodes
Caretaker alone should prove my point. "Hmm, I could get my crew home in a few minutes, or I could keep us stranded to prevent some cavemen in impulse ships from boarding a station that's just as likely to end in their deaths when they pry open the wrong panel and fry themselves. Decision made, I'll strand my crew!"
Let's not forget that the Kazon are the same race that managed to kill themselves by fucking up the installation of a food replicator. They are too dumb to live. They were no threat to anyone. They are basically Pakleds who can speak polysyllabically.
And yes, there were 172 episodes in total. I don't count "Living Witness" as an "insane Janeway" episode. The version of Janeway in that one is very competently evil, and totally sane. And lots of fun to watch.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
1b711a No.26383
>>26380
>Our comfortable living standard were only made possible with colonialism, mass impoverishment and two world wars.
>Oy vey the government needs to go to war or else we'll lose our living standard
Get the (((Keynes))) out of your head goy, you'll start thinking a lot clearer.
>And since only the Feds care about it, what prevents other species from exploiting underdeveloped races? Posing as their gods, enslaving them?
Earlier in the thread someone posited that real motive behind the Prime Directive is just to discourage bleeding-heart Starfleet captains from abandoning their mission to play god to some alien spearchuckers. If we assume this to be true, than we can say that the other races never caught the socialism mind-virus and as such don't have any desire to virtue-signal by wasting their time trying to uplift some alien culture, they've got more important shit to do.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
ab5a42 No.26399
>>26383
>Oy vey the government needs to go to war or else we'll lose our living standard
I didn't say that. I meant that people don't just wake up one day and skip stages of historical development and are like "hey, let's organize our society to XYZ principles!". Every society reproduces itself, slave owners think they have a right to own another person, feudal lords think they have a right to distribute usufruct rights over this plot of land, etc. - this applies to society today, still. At least ST wasn't idealistic in that regard, they needed WWIII for humanity to unite.
>If we assume this to be true, than we can say that the other races never caught the socialism mind-virus and as such don't have any desire to virtue-signal by wasting their time trying to uplift some alien culture, they've got more important shit to do.
There are dozens of episodes (and Insurrection which is like a two-parter) where interstellar species fuck with primtive ones because they want a raw material. Now if we take the laws of this universe seriously, and remember how populated it is, there is no way primitive races are exploited literally all the time.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
3c9f35 No.27890
>>18392
Makes you wonder how many Feddie first contacts go horribly wrong within a couple of decades. How many times does someone from the final native generation just commandeer a starship and warp it into his own planet at full speed because he can't stand to see the rot and degeneration any longer? After all many planets don't survive their WWIII stage, or are knocked back to the stone age. There's got to be a bunch that don't survive first contact.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
f8e440 No.27891
>>27890
That's what all those "human colonies" really are: if and when FC goes wrong and the population starts to openly denounce the Federation, S31 just releases a fast-acting virus into the population, their existence is memory-holed, and they ship a bunch of humans in to "colonize" the world. Can't have the other interstellar powers thinking there might be trouble in paradise, after all.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
d67a3d No.27909
>>27891
Federation is truly oppressive.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
