No.9499
So what exactly is postrationalism and how does it differ from rationalism?
____________________________
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.9500
If you strip out the bullshit it comes down to the idea that sometimes it's better not to be rational. But the meta-framework you should use to decide how to approach a particular situation ought to be rational.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.9501
Postrationalist is what you call yourself if you want to signal how much better you think you are than regular rationalists. Personally I'm a postpostrationalist and consider regular postrationalists to be plebs.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.9502
Working hypothesis: it's still rationality (winning), but darker, edgier, more right-wing and more artsy. These differences may or may not warrant a "post-". What I cannot tell is whether it is spreading within the rationalist diaspora.
>Has a rationalist in your life started conspicuously flirting with the dark arts? Or mocking the veil of ignorance and EA? Or showing disdain for polyamory? They may be a risk! Act today before they invent a personal religion.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.9503
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.9504
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.9505
>>9499
The time between X and post-X is decaying rapidly.Soon they are going to be simultaneous.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.9506
I think esotericism and a more positive attitude to post-modernist nonsense are a big part. Relatedly, a claim that religion/spirituality is at least not *boringly* wrong
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.9507
>>9506
Esotericism and postmodernist nonsense I see, but I am not so sure about "religion is not boringly wrong" as a distinguishing feature of that group. If what you mean is that they consider religion or a religion substitute like humanism useful as a hedonic accessory and a motivator, I think a nontrivial number (10%+) of regular old rationalists who are not otherwise in the postrat cluster would agree, including SA. (Though it may be that they mean different things by "religion".)
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.9508
>>9507
Make that 5%+ for the diaspora as a whole. Higher for SSC readers.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.9509
Must be good to be a post-rationalist. You'd be off the hook, as nobody claims that post-rationalists should win.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.9510
>>9509
If anything, postrats want to trade epistemic rationality for winning.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.9511
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.9512
>>9510
The only thing the postrats are winning at is being internet-losers. Which is actually quite impressive.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.9513
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.9514
>>9510
postrationalist: genie, I wish to trade my intelligence and empistemic virtue for UNBRIDLED EFFECTIVENESS and PSYCHOLOGICAL HARMONY
genie: bippity boppity boo
postrationalist: uhhhm, what the fuck was I doing again?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.9515
>>9514
Obviously, postrats believe they are trading nearly none of their intelligence and a fairly small amount of epistemic virtue for a lot of effectiveness and psychological harmony (good terms).
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.9516
>>9515
This is to say that I think they appreciate the hit to epistemic virtue, but consider themselves to be minmaxing correctly.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.9517
Are post rats more or less autistic than normal rats?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.9518
>>9517
Autism is a stage 4 construct, reality is patterned, yet nebulous!
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.9519
>>9517
Autism is a stage 4 construct, reality is patterned, yet nebulous!
The question is not whether someone produces autistic or non-autistic qualia, but whether "autism" is an appropriate and helpful classification given a specific context.
Autism is a form of Eternalism.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.11898
Has anyone here recently updated on postrationalism?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.11899
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.11900
>>11899
That's the point, innit?
Maybe you'd make more sense if you didn't use the word "irrational".
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.11902
>>11900
Sure. Postrats are just like prerats. They are just normies who have experienced rationality and then ditch it for normies psychologically do not tolerate realistic maps well.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.11903
>>9517
Postrats are a lot more NT compared to rats.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.11904
>>11903
Yeah when I read David Chapman, the first thing that comes to mind is "there's a normal, well-adjusted fella".
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.11905
>>11903
Postrats are a narcissism-of-small-differences tier of distinctly different kind of neuroatypicality from rats.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.11906
Postrationalists are rationalists.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.11920
>>11905
>distinctly different kind of neuroatypicality from rats
What kind of neuroatypicality?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.11925
>>11898
>Has anyone here recently updated on postrationalism?
Old postrationalism (4+ years ago): High church, Freud, Evola, ceremonial magic, NRx.
Current postrationalism: Postmodernism, Chapman, Kegan, meditation, psychedelics, woo.
Common to both: Non-EA, not-very-utilitarian, suspicious of explicit calculation in ethics generally; evo-psych, System 1 (except to the extent you take acid trips to route around it).
The old postrationalism at least lead to some ideas worth knowing about (if nothing else); the new postrationalism isn't even that.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.11928
>>11925
>Old postrationalism
>Freud
>Current postrationalism
>woo
This seems like a good summary (if you accept Anissimov and MoreRight as part of the postrat thing, which makes sense), but I must question these two points. Was there a Freud person? Do current postrats have a new kind of woo that is not ritual (i.e., old postrats' ceremonial magic) or psychedelics?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.11931
>>11928
Old postrat woo: "There is a great Mystery here, perhaps locked behind an Initiation, perhaps hidden in the plain sight of ancient ritual or the letters of the Torah, but at any rate available only to the Elect."
New postrat woo: "Its all connected, man. Everything is one. Pass the ganga."
Freud: Substitute instead the whole Late Romantic or fin-de-siècle mindset; not postmodernists, but the holdouts against Modernism in the first place; the people clinging to the Mass, the dark areas of the mind, the tribal drumbbeat.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.11933
>>11931
>Everything is one.
I don't know, Chapman has specifically called out this view as false and harmful.
https://meaningness.com/monism
>fin-de-siècle mindset
You're on to something here, anon. In postrationalism there is definitely an attempt to recover pre-Modern thinking, but fuse or tame it with rationality.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.11935
>>11933
> I don't know, Chapman has specifically called out this view as false and harmful.
https://meaningness.com/monism
True, although I'm not sure all the postrat (or still-rat or rat-adjacent) psychonaughts got the memo.
Advanced tentatively: Chapmanism is compatible with atheism and materialism but is perhaps in conflict with empiricism. It is an introspective, naval-gazing sort of philosophy; sure there's all sorts of emphasis on tantra and "play" and experiencing, but that isn't the sort of thing of which Karl Popper would approve: no repeatable, falsifiable knowledge is being produced, and even if it were, Chapman's hostility to quantifying anything would get in the way of adding the results to the sum of human knowledge anyway.
Come to think of it, that's kind of a common theme among the postrationalists: they accept the conclusions of science (unlike their fin-de-siècle/postmodernist/occultist/whatever predecessors), but their own epistemology prevents them from doing any science themselves (relevant: http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/03/against-anton-wilsonism/)
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.11937
>>11935
Chapman also said Monism wins the conflict between it and dualism.
I mean, "Monism holds that all religions and philosophies are essentially the same, and that they point at the same ultimate truth." is not the only kind of monism, neither is "the denial of separateness and diversity."
The sophisticated monisms sound exactly like Chapman's "Patterned yet nebulous" shit.
One thing I don't like about Chapman is that he shows little ability to apply his own multi-systematicity.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.11955
>>9512
lol yeah get back on that dragon army rationalist dojo fam among a gaggle of polyamorous trannies and diabetic neckbeards
afterwards you can meet at your swinger's meeting, talk AI/furry/fantasy fanfiction and mechanical keyboards while Jamal gives your non-primary gf the Warm Fuzzies
then he pascal mugs you but you realise by doing so you've become an Effective Altruist
rationalists are *huge winners*
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.13162
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.14363
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.14602
Is it still a thing? Has it folded back into rationalism?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.14611
>>14602
Which of the many definitions of "postrationalism" available in this thread should we use to examine the current year for signs of its presence?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.14617
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.14730
>>11902
No human tolerates realistic maps well. The autists of the rationalist core fall into different traps than normies, but they absolutely do, and a lot. And because they self-identify with rationality they, ironically, forget that they are only aspiring rationalists and come to view their geographically determined in-group social norms as "more evolved."
To name this group "the rationali(st|ty) community" was a huge mistake. They should have called it something more like "the slightly less shitty but still shitty thinking community."
>>11920
This is a very interesting question.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.14732
>>14617
Well, somehow I missed this SSC post the first time around: https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/06/04/book-review-the-secret-of-our-success/
It seems like Scott is cautiously endorsing the idea of "trading epistemic virtue for effectiveness" in this review. If we consider SSC a good indicator of what "rationalism" is today, then it sounds like some good ideas of postrationalism are getting folded back in. On the other hand, I think there are some non-"rationalist" postrationalists still around, like the Lovecraft guy who has his own thread here. (I also sometimes see other assorted tweeters identifying as postrats, but it's unclear to me what influence rationalism actually had on their thinking. I suspect signalling.)
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.14789
What happened to vgr? He used to be so much better, or at least that's how I remember it.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
