No.12761 [Last50 Posts]
What does /ratanon/ think about /ourguy/ Zero?
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No.12762
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No.12763
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No.12768
I don't know why don't you say what do you think about yourself first ?
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No.12770
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No.12771
>>12770
You might wanna try again.
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No.12773
>>12762
was a very good read, albeit long, and the end was kind of weird.
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No.12924
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No.12928
I liked "The Gig Economy" a lot. The main concept/reveal doesn't seem super novel, but the prose at a paragraph-by-paragraph level was really enjoyable, and his protagonist is extremely relatable.
His tweets and politics seem terrible, but I guess "good stories, awful opinions" was true for the original HP Lovecraft too.
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No.12931
>>12924
Overly edgy, seemingly uninformed, and prone to overgeneralization. I liked the story, I'm disappointed about the quality of the tweets.
>The greatest misunderstanding in the history of morality is that “selfish” motives taint actions with immorality
I agree that selfishness doesn't make actions immoral. My impression is that effective altruists are much more likely than baseline to agree with that. theunitofcaring in particular keeps stressing that causing good things is good because they're good things, not because of your motives.
>Say you see a beggar on the street, and you decide to give him some money. You did a good thing, right? Wrong! You subsidized his failures. Charity begets only more dependence.
This is a factual claim. I don't know if it's true, but I think it could plausibly go either way, and depends on particular details, rather than characteristics of the overall idea of giving money to people who don't have enough money. Money distributed by GiveDirectly seems to do a lot of good and gets used for investments, even though the recipients are free to use it on whatever they want.
>What effective altruists get wrong is that when you can save someone’s life for $5, all you have done is preserve a life that was worth $5. You can easily put a price on human life, we do it every day, and you get what you pay for
I'm fond of markets, but this is just silly. Why would the economic value of something converge on its moral value? Aren't you just saying that everything that happens is good because it's a thing that happens, at that point?
>If you raise up a man who cannot feed himself, and through your subsidies he raises a family who go on to require your largesse, you will destroy yourself and him and his family when you run out of money
Again with the low-quality generalizations. One of the most popular EA charities is the Schistosomiasis Control Initiative, which distributes very cheap medicine to prevent schistosomiasis. Schistosomiasis isn't particularly lethal, but it causes all kinds of disabilities, including learning disabilities. Preventing it makes people stronger, not weaker.
Another EA charity is No Lean Season, which gives poor farmers enough money to pay for travel to the city to get a job during the lean season and send money back home, significantly increasing the nutritional intake of the family, and often letting them pay for next year's trip on their own. It's helping people feed themselves.
His more practical concerns are things EAs care a lot about and try to deal with as best as they can, and his more abstract concerns are bizarre and don't seem to be generated from consistently applied principles.
I wouldn't mind his opinions nearly as much if they were at all convincing.
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No.13102
Like most of those weirdtwitter/frogtwitter/nrx affiliated accounts, posting vaguely "deep" sounding stuff in the hope that somebody will think he has an insightful point to make. If you actually stop and consider the content beyond its superficial landian aesthetic you'll quickly realise that those are all just kids with too much spare time and not enough social interaction. Conclusion: needs to start lifting ASAP to cure the ghey.
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No.13103
>>13102
I'd agree with your post if it was about right-wing Twitter in general, but I think you performed a lazy pattern match on 0 HP. On Twitter he writes concretely, mostly summarizing and synthesizing from Moldbug, Hanson, Goffman, Nietzsche, etc. He is apparently married and not that young (possibly a 4chan and OB/LW oldfag).
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No.13104
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No.13106
>>13104
Is this just a sick burn, or do you think he is a humanist in a meaningful sense? I'd like to know your reasoning if it's the latter.
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No.13107
>>13106
He literally whines about abortion and humanity losing on twitter.
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No.13108
>>13107
Humanism is a specific ideology that you can't derive from the word itself (and that isn't exactly opposite to transhumanism, in case you were going for that).
I never looked into it deeply, but secularism is a major part of it. There's a lot of progressivism and opinions about abortion seem to be divided.
I don't think 0HP is a humanist at all.
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No.13265
Does anyone know why his account is now protected? Perhaps someone who isn't locked out?
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No.13266
>>13265
He seems to close it when normalfags come flooding in. Wait a few days and follow him or maybe just send a follow request now.
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No.13416
>If a man speaks his inner thoughts and compulsions in an honest way, it will sound to most women like the shrieking of a demon.
lol. Nobody is more woke on gender than this guy.
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No.13417
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No.13767
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No.13779
>>13767
Same. It's mysterious to me why he's this fond of the West's original leftist cult. Sure it's better than progressivism, but I would characterize this take as "conservative" rather than "reactionary".
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No.13780
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No.13784
>>13767
>>13779
0HP doesn't seem very fond of actually existing Christianity.
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No.13790
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No.13842
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No.13881
His writing style is great.
The Gig Economy is 9,5/10.
Incredible prose and everything ties nicely together.
I would give it a 10/10, but the ending is LITERALLY just Kill La Kill ala humanity's progress is a result of Lovecraftian monsters' spores infesting earth while pretending to be a commodity or tool.
I understand why he did it, though, and I genuinely can't blame him. As a serious adaptation of Lovecraft coupled with modern Acc, it's pure perfection.
Does anyone if any of his other stories are accessible? I am thirsty.
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No.13924
Is his causal arrow right?
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No.13925
>>13924
Unlikely. Just a shared cause.
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No.13926
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No.13927
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No.13928
>>13927
It seems to me like there is nothing constructive about e-celeb threads.
Regarding zero, I like Gig Economy but most of his twitter ramblings are just there to dogmatize his following. Like just look at that awful "incel weaboo" tweet that kinda makes sense when you first look at it but doesn't make sense at all except if you buy the whole lovecraftian landian post-rat guru schlick.
Also from this thread where someone quoted him:
>If a man speaks his inner thoughts and compulsions in an honest way, it will sound to most women like the shrieking of a demon.
I'm not sure if you are aware but this is how people currently imagine incels sounding like.
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No.13929
>>13928
The rationalist diaspora is an e-celeb thread.
As for Zero, you are taking him too literally. He seems never to be 100% serious, and this thread has gone in the direction of collecting his most lulzy takes. Though he is probably more serious about the shrieking than about the anime.
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No.14484
His politics are performative. Lovecraft was famously racist, and Zero HP is ver deliberately the 2018 equivalent - an anonymous twitter user seething about leftists. It's all part of the mask, an art project.
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No.14485
>>14484
I can't tell whether you're saying they aren't his real beliefs. I'm almost certain they are, but they're of course deliberately packaged into a persona with a particular aesthetic.
Anyway, now that the dust has settled, what did we think of God-Shaped Hole? I thought it was solid, but The Gig Economy remains my favorite. I think it's because God-Shaped Hole being set in the future adds some emotional distance. Yes, this future would be horrible, but it's not real. When I first started reading The Gig Economy, I didn't even realize it was a work of fiction. Dayjob contracts could start appearing on Ethereum today. The Minotaur could be real right now. I think that allows the story to powerfully capture the Lovecraftian dread of alien beings lurking beneath the facade of mundane life. I appreciate how God-Shaped Hole is illustrating horrors latent in human sexuality, but I feel like that's happening on a sort of intellectual level, whereas The Gig Economy evokes a feeling of dread in my stomach at what we may have already conjured up, and what we can never put back down, with our Internet and our blockchains and our machine learning.
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No.14490
>>14485
I was linked to it with no context and assumed it was a rambling thinkpiece/blogpost. I only suspected it was fiction when he was strapped into the machine, and even then I did some googling for dayjobs to make sure. Spooked me real good.
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No.14500
His thread on consensus procedures is, despite not quite original, still genuinely insightful, up there with best articles from Scott:
https://twitter.com/0x49fa98/status/1064255717492764672
> Intelligence is competence at winning games and leftism-as-intelligence is a set of strategies for winning games where the victory condition is majority consensus
> The leftist thrives on consensus procedures, it is why over-socialization its its necessary output. What is a “consensus procedure”? It’s any time a decision is made by majority vote
> This need not be an electoral-political game. Any time you make a decision via committee, any time your team at work votes on something, you “did leftism”.
> …Rule by committee releases toxic social waste as a byproduct; conformist, alienated depressed people who know something has been taken from them but they don’t know what or how. So they appoint a committee to fix the problem.
Also, it's damn awesome to see you guys again.
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No.14565
He really despises trannies, doesn't he?
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No.14566
>>14565
Why do you think so? And what do you mean by italicizing really? He hates the "perpetual civil rights movement" and any cause it champions. I don't see evidence of exceptional hatred for trannies compared to other demographics favored by progressives.
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No.14572
Yep, this one's going in my "queering the cringe/based binary" compilation
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No.14573
>>14572
Where is the cringe?
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No.14575
>>14573
>religion
>unironically
>2020
>"prophet" is a known software engineer aka nerdy white guy
>"prophet" delivers his proclamations through a glitchy voice changer that makes his voice sound spooky
>appropriates Christian branding, half the population will see as blasphemous and the other half will instinctively tip fedoras
Cringing will occur. I will almost certainly be unable to endorse Eldritch Mindset (or whatever he calls it) in public. Doesn't preclude it from being based as hell for /ourguys/.
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No.14576
>>14575
>>14575
>half the population will see as blasphemous and the other half will instinctively tip fedoras
You are right about this. The Christian branding will make it weird. It's a bold strategy and probably higher risk/higher reward than starting from other basis. Cult leaders must choose it because cults, like startups, fail by default, making risk acceptable. It has an audience of young male aspiring trads who can't quite bring themselves to believe in Christianity. Zero could want to convert them more than hardcore atheists and rat-adjacents.
The rest is hardly cringe. Nerdy white guys used to found religions all the time. The last time they did it a lot was only half a century ago. The thought that "we" need a new religion better than progressive universalism is in the air, though there is much disagreement what it should be like.
I expect to be mildly repulsed by what Zero creates if it really is an aesthetically Christian rebranding of cosmic horror. I don't think such combination is viable or pleasant.
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No.14733
>>14576
>aesthetically Christian rebranding of cosmic horror. I don't think such combination is viable or pleasant.
I've been thinking about this. An authentic reinterpretation of existing Christian scripture and doctrine is indeed incompatible with Zero's ideas. Christianity has a deeply progressive core message: discard those oppressive old traditions, just love your neighbor as yourself, we're all equal in the eyes of God and no people is God's chosen. Libtards are right about Jesus being a collectivist hippie. Apparently we weren't ready for all that back in the 0s AD, but it seems like each iteration of Christianity, inspired by more and more literal readings of Jesus' core message, brings us closer.
But, there is a notable "Christian" sect that seems like an exception here. Mormonism was started by a prophet introducing new sacred texts, not a scholar reinterpreting existing texts. It became hugely successful and did it without selling out to progressivism. It went back to one true church whose adherents have privileged access to God and even let high-status men asymmetrically rack up multiple wives. Maybe there's a lesson for Zero in here: we need prophecy, not just exegesis. Is he capable of that? Well, my gut feeling is that Joseph Smith's revelations were outright fabrications, rather than the prophetotypical blend of mild insanity and mystical experiences, so maybe Zero can pull that off too.
I don't know. It still seems impossible to reconcile the Golden Rule with Zero's "Compassion has no place in my politics." I can't figure out how he likes both Christianity and Nietzsche at the same time.
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No.14734
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No.14735
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No.14736
An accusation was posted when it seemed he was gone forever.
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No.14737
>>14736
The American Mind published responses from both Zero and the literally who in your screenie to Yarvin's "The Deep State vs. The Deep Right". I assume this is the origin of whatever happened between them. Maybe he observed that her essay was shit. But I've never seen any "visible" interaction between them at all, despite stalking Zero's /with_replies to an autistic degree, and certainly not "endless harassment".
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No.14751
Ha, so >>14566 was right and >>14565 was wrong.
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No.14752
>>14751
Aahhhh, the other way around.
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No.14753
>>14752
Is there something I missed? Did he come out and say "I really despite trannies"?
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No.14757
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No.14778
Zero just called us a bunch of cucks who need to hit the gym.
https://twitter.com/0x49fa98/status/1276138147521400833
Yeah, I know, of course he's right.
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No.14779
>>14778
Some of the things he says are true, but I don't think he's right overall.
Scott has written long essays about how openly talking about forbidden topics is dangerous. It's something that's part of his model, it's not a blind spot. You could maybe argue that he made a quantitative error, but that's not what Zero is doing—he seems to be arguing that Scott didn't anticipate trouble at all, and that's untrue.
Worse than that, this is not about Scott having forbidden opinions, it's about him publishing concrete political opinions at all. That's something that's a problem in his particular line of work, and it would still be a problem if he stayed safely within the Overton window.
Getting fired for problematic opinions is a tertiary concern at best. It's not that there's no risk of that at all, but the NYT article probably wasn't going to be a hit piece and I would guess his employer already knows about his blog. He's been doxed before. I found his surname last year without even looking for it.
This isn't the first time I've seen Zero go "Ohoho, naïve rationalists, you may think you're smart, but have you considered X?" where X is a well-known thing that has been analyzed to death. X could still be a problem, even a fatal one, but if he doesn't acknowledge that they already know about it then that undermines his credibility.
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No.14780
>>14779
>he seems to be arguing that Scott didn't anticipate trouble at all, and that's untrue.
He's not talking so much about Scott as he's talking about Rationalists in general. Pics related (not directly part of the thread, but replies to replies) probably lay the issue out more clearly. He's exaggerating the percentages in the former, but the number of people posting things like that on those threads is far too high. Many rationalists really are that naïve.
Scott. on the other hand, has known very well he's walking on a minefield for a while now, and has been working to minimize his exposure to this type of issues for years now. Completely unrelated to all this, but his article about Kolmogorov Complicity was pretty good.
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No.14781
I am going to do the uncool nerd thing and ask, is there evidence that lifting helps the socially awkward with their social awkwardness?
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No.14782
>>14781
I didn't look into it, but I think it's the PUA equivalent of advising yoga to cure depression. Might work for some people, but eh.
Someone on Tumblr weighed in and said there was no correlation between times he was working out and physically fit and times he was able to function properly:
>This bit is bullshit, BTW. Not that you shouldn’t exercise, of course; it’s healthy and you should do it. But I’ve been through many long periods of time where I’ve pushed myself to do as much as I could stand to of various kinds of weight-lifting and cardio, at home, at the gym, outdoors, by myself or with others; for other long periods of time I’ve barely exercised at all. I’ve always been moderately overweight, but otherwise physically healthy and strong, especially during periods when I exercise regularly. However, it has never had any discernible effect one way or the other on my generally terrible depression and anxiety. In particular, it hasn’t affected my tendency to live in my head, overthink things, avoid things, feel uncomfortable in my own skin, etc.—all those stereotypical personality traits of neurotic nerds that supposedly can be cured through athletic activity.
>I suppose some people must see some sort of mental-health benefit to exercising, or it wouldn’t be such a common refrain that exercise is good for the mind as well as the body. So if you haven’t tried it, do. At least it will be good for your body, if you do it safely. But I am a living counterexample to the premise that it will noticeably ameliorate mental illness.
https://homestarcodex.tumblr.com/post/622030332754116608
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No.14783
Found in the replies to the quokka thread
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No.14784
>>14782
Calling Zero "MoreRight-style nRx" is quite the burn. But this has been his most Anissimov thread yet.
The potato lord is back on Twitter by the way.
https://twitter.com/NRxPenguin
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No.14846
My take on Zero's twitter account is that to him arguments are without a doubt soldiers. As a second generation preacher he cares about shaping the narrative and saving souls more than intellectual integrity. He wants rationalists to read him and convert to heterosexual BAPism, not to understand and expose their weaknesses charitably and with a lot of accuracy.
>>14778
You are being shamed into confessing your sins and converting. You may decide to convert anyway, but you should realize what your reaction means.
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No.14860
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No.14872
ITT: stereotypical EA AGP programmer t-girls from the room drawn in that mspaint meme resent a real male intellectual of our time.
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No.14873
>>14781
Lifting lowers resting heart rate and blood pressure, which are correlated with anxiety episodes.
>Scott. on the other hand, has known very well he's walking on a minefield for a while now, and has been working to minimize his exposure to this type of issues for years now.
This really compromised his intellectual integrity by the end of his career.
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No.14884
>>14872
if you are a t-girl or any other non-straight person 0hpl is an enemy. even to non-straight nrxers he can only be a situational ally. a quasi-christian like him will sooner or later want to impose his values on your patch.
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No.14888
>>14873
As a matter of fact, I think Scott's career is not over.
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No.14984
>>14888
You've presented me a gish gallop of claims which are so anti-true that I am losing sleep over them. I have never experienced rage this intense in my entire life; I can actually feel slight nausea. I find myself wondering how you can even conjure up so many evil, slimy, bold-facedly inaccurate things to say. If you were as well-read in Eliezer's writings as would be required for you to be justified in having made any blanket evaluations of LW rationality, there's no way you would have conveyed your disagreement exactly like this, and I am lead to believe you are intentionally creating hostility for some reason, despite actually being oblivious to Eliezer's beliefs and the practices of the LW community.
And I still want to reconcile with you, calmly and peacefully, because I expect that my gut is probably deceiving me about your intentions. There are so many causes for people saying wrong things, and usually the cause is not bad intent.
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