No.10801 [Last50 Posts]
https://www.reddit.com/r/SneerClub/comments/7633el/not_the_critic_who_counts/
Why does /u/caquilino refuse to disavow /ratanon? Do your civic duty and make sure they don't get elected president.
____________________________
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No.10802
>leddit special hate club
aww geez rick
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No.10803
I thought that subreddit looked like the same deal as (and a more specialized subset of) >>10270, and the posters' histories confirmed it. Ah, System 1.
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No.10804
Irrationality is a disease.
The main a priori problem isn't leftism. Instead it is unreason. Modern leftists don't believe in facts. When leftism became an enemy of rationality and truth it became my enemy.
There is no ideology worse than moraltardism which involves any form of suppression of facts or rationality for the sake of prosociality, ideology or conformism.
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No.10805
>>10803
I'm rat adjacent so I don't understand how these redditors can have such strong hate for people who are generally on their side. How can a Scott post make anyone angry?
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No.10806
>>10805
One word, moralists. I disagree woth both libtards and Christian sentimental people at the meta level, namely I don't believe cognition should ever be suppressed for any reason, including morality or social stability.
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No.10807
>>10806
What's so good about cognition? Aside from using it to notice (((who))) tells poop jokes.
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No.10808
>>10807
Cognition and knowledge are inherently among the most important stuff in this universe. Woo, sentiments and collectivism need to go to hell while pure Darwinism needs to take over.
Of course the issue of poop jokes require objective investigation. I doubt that you will necessarily like the conclusion though.
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No.10809
>>10807
I'm an intellectual hedonist. I don't believe in justice nor do I believe in unity. I reject drugs and tobacco because they are objectively harmful. I reject sexuality as something that benefits one's genes but not oneself.
I don't give a shit about humanity or its long-term survival. I want to maximize knowledge and cognition even if lack of brainwashing and raw Darwinism will eventually doom humanity.
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No.10810
By the way, do you know what's wrong with Christianity and why I don't like it? Mercy. I don't believe in mercy. Instead I believe in Darwin.
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No.10811
>>10810
>Instead I believe in Darwin.
That's about as sensible as believing in gravity.
Sometimes evolution does kind of neat things. Sometimes it routes your nerves on top of your retina and doesn't know how to fix it. Sometimes it causes a runaway process that leads to impractical peacock feathers that are strictly worse than the original trait.
Don't use it as a philosophy. Or if you do, keep it separate from actual evolution, because actual evolution is not a perfect ideal.
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No.10812
>>10811
Sure! I don't behave amorally but I'm indeed some sort of an antimoralist who believes that too much slave morality is actually harming humanity.
If someone needs a religion there is always Odinism etc. Don't join an Abrahamic one.
I personally oppose antisemitism because I oppose morality. Might is right. If Jews are powerful then they are great by definition. You can try to be greater than them but you should never criticize them as being "evil" as if such a concept is well-defined. Criticizing what is great is typical slave morality nonsense. Of course Jews themselves also have no shortage of slave morality nonsense.
At the same time I support neo-colonialism. Again might is right. Whoever that manages to occupy a place deserves to rule over it. If the West recolonize Africa then the West is great. If China colonizes Africa then China is great. If Africa manages to not be colonized then Africa is great. If Israel can rule the world then it is the greatest and deserves to be considered the greatest.
I oppose affirmative action for the same reason. Might is right. Rights are earned, not given. You aren't entitled to anything but instead need to work for everything.
There is no such thing as racial equality, nor is there such thing as a fixed racial hierarchy. Might is right at any time in history. Nature does not care about your tears.
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No.10813
>>10807
It is nice for noticing who tells who tells poop jokes jokes and marking them as an outgroup to be treated accordingly.
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No.10814
As for the Jews they are already great in terms of master morality due to their success. Having Eliazar and Scott is a huge achievement. Having so many Nobel Prize Laureates is an even greater achievement.
Natsocs forgot that their criticism of Jews makes no sense in master morality even though their ideologies unrelated to Jews usually had the correct non-slave morality worldview. The more Jews are considered evil the greater they are in master morality. If Jews can indeed exterminate everyone else as Andrew Anglin said then that will be an unprecedented achievement that deserves glorification instead of moral bashing.
Jews didn't do anything wrong, aren't doing anything wrong and will not do anything wrong. The same applies to whites, Japanese and everyone else who have the guts to be great or at least try to be great.
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No.10815
>>10813
See >>10814
Sorry. You have too much morality to see the truth.
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No.10816
>>10808
>sentiments […] need to go to hell
>Cognition and knowledge are inherently among the most important stuff
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No.10817
>>10812
also
>I oppose morality. Might is right.
Words actually mean things. Come on.
Apart from that sort of nitpicking:
>too much slave morality is actually harming humanity.
Just to be clear, is this a bad thing?
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No.10818
>>10816
To clarify, by "sentiment" I'm talking about mercy, nurture and other related feelings. Sorry for the confusion.
>>10817
>too much slave morality is actually harming humanity.
>Just to be clear, is this a bad thing?
In the sense of "is too much slave morality bad" or "is harming humanity bad"?
Let's address the first question first.
Yes, it is. Slave morality is actually harming well-being of humanity. There has been enough harm caused by slave-minded people such as Christians and Muslims. No. I don't want more of that.
If humanity ever wants to remain relevant on this planet in the age of AI it has to learn how to get rid of slave morality.
Now let's address the second one. There is no such thing as morality except for brainwashing hence the question shouldn't be answered from the point of view of morality.
Can we benefit from humanity not getting harmed? Well, humanity not getting harmed when we are alive is likely to help us. On the other hand we shouldn't give a shit about what happen to humanity after we die unless our bodies are already preserved by cryogenics.
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No.10819
Societies tend to create nonsense so that their members (or subjects, even occasionally inmates?) support their continued existence and perform actions against their own interests due to stupidity.
In a perfectly rational and selfish world with enough robots to take care of humans the amount of children any human has would be strictly zero. Humans become old, robots feed humans and then humans go extinct.
Evolution selects for reproductive fitness over individual longevity. This is why a lot of stupid family-related altruism still exists and is pretty widespread. There is also multilevel selection happening here. Societies that indoctrinate their subjects (including elites! Societies need to control them as well even though they probably don't believe in the same woo they feed the masses.) with certain nonsense are more likely to survive than societies that promote rationality and truth only. Hence all societies promote nonsense both to ensure control by elites and to promote prosocial behaviors.
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No.10820
>>10819
>>10818
Thank you for answering my questions. I have some more.
>There has been enough harm caused by slave-minded people such as Christians and Muslims.
What is harm? What things are being harmed?
>brainwashing
What is brainwashing? Are there no sources of morality other than brainwashing?
>In a perfectly rational and selfish world with enough robots to take care of humans the amount of children any human has would be strictly zero. Humans become old, robots feed humans and then humans go extinct.
(I'm assuming that by "perfectly rational and selfish world" you mean that every human in that world is perfectly rational and selfish.) Not sure why this would be the case at all. If I was perfectly rational and selfish but one of my selfish values included having my own biological children, then I could go and impregnate perfectly rational and selfish women who wanted the same and then the number of children any human had would no longer be strictly zero. More broadly, I think a wide range of terminal values are compatible with each human being perfectly rational and selfish.
Do you believe that values are not orthogonal to rationality, in the sense that there exist particular values such that having them automatically means a person is not rational?
Pic related—it's the kind of robot that I would like to have to feed me in a perfectly rational and selfish world.
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No.10821
>>10820
You're welcome!
>What's the harm? What things are being harmed?
Both Christianity and Islam share the following idiotic features:
1.They make their adherents slaves. Both promote slave morality.
2.Islam promotes predestination while Christianity cares about modern miracles. The problem here is the lack of human agency when the deity you worship is very unlikely to exist. Better improving yourself than praying to the Abrahamic God. Sorry.
3.They are both against science. Young Earth Creationism, faith and anti-epistemology. Get redpilled and read Stephen Law's Believing Bullshit please.
4.Religious wars.
5.Both were against "usury" which harmed the economy.
>What is brainwashing? Are there no sources of morality other than brainwashing?
Brainwashing aka indoctrination is intentionally spreading beliefs that aren't factually correct. As a moral nihilist I don't believe that factually correct moral statements exist. As a result any typical form of moral "education" is indoctrination designed to indoctrinate people with a particular set of moral views without questioning them. Real moral education as in discussing different moral systems objectively of course can exist and do exist in philosophy departments. However they aren't what people usually mean by "moral education".
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No.10822
>>10820
Desiring children is not necessarily irrational. However it is certainly not selfish unless you want to do something really horrible to the children which I strongly oppose since I'm a moral nihilist but I'm not a sociopath or sadist.
Spreading your genes in a world with enough robots to take care of humanity isn't selfish in general because you don't get anything from it.
As for a woman when there are robot wives who are much better than human ones it is unprofitable to marry a human woman. Hence you aren't being selfish if you still marry a human chick when you can buy a robot one for 4,000 bucks.
I believe values are orthogonal to rationality. However selfism is not orthogonal to other values. In particular desiring to start a family is not selfish in general.
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No.10825
>>10821
>>10818
Honest question: how much of the sequences have you read? To me the way you as a supposed moral nihilist reject brainwashing implies that you undervalue the objective usefulness of shared brainwashing for winning (whatever your goals are). In turn, this implies that you haven't thought about cooperation and iterated prisoner's dilemmas as much as someone who has read the sequences would. Perhaps you have actually reified moral unbelief, might-make-right and the aesthetics that go with it?
Also, pic very related.
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No.10826
>>10825
About half of it.
I have read Eliezer's stance on collective rationality, a rationalist military, etc. I have thought about the issue of iterated prisoners' dilemma and I'm not a persistent defector. Instead I cooperate unless the other side defects. This is compatible with selfism because persistent defection does not actually maximize personal gain in the real world.
I'm indeed very worried these days. Hell the more you think about the world the more you worry. Ethnic biological weapons used in a global genocidal hatefest (such as an America vs Russia vs China global genocidal war), alien invasions, AI going amok, AI taking away all non-social jobs leaving humanity de facto useless.
I don't consider cognition itself a means to communicate/signal. Furthermore as an absolute individualist I actually hate it if I'm not sufficiently distant from other humans. The more the majority of humans avoid a political stance the more I like it. Pretending to be loyal is of course good from time to time. Real loyalty is stupid though.
I believe that might makes right (MMR) because it is the view compatible with nature. Humans invented morality to do better on the iterated prisoner's dilemma but almost all moral systems remain at least partly an arbitrary human invention. Such moral systems are ultimately compatible with the MMR stance because it makes a group more mighty and more likely to survive at the level of groups.
Evolution is now selecting against intelligence or at least people who are too intelligent to reproduce or too intelligent to believe in nonsense societies invented and too honest to pretend to believe in such BS. :-(
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No.10827
>>10826
>This is compatible with selfism because persistent defection does not actually maximize personal gain in the real world.
Didn't you notice that that justifies altruistic morality?
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No.10828
>>10827
>Didn't you notice that that justifies altruistic morality?
To some extant only. It does NOT justify sacrificing one's life for other people or worse, some collective entity.
Every human is an island. Any entity that attempts to absorb the islands into something else is evil.
You are not a slave of your genes or your sex organs. To hell with sacrificing anything for the sake of sexuality or breeding.
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No.10829
To further clarify my stance let's talk about multicellular organisms. I'm not sure why such organisms exist at all but the first cells that got suck into multicellular organisms certainly did not get good deals. There are programmed cell deaths and other scenarios where an organism regularly kills its own cells.
I'm not sure why there are some people who advocate for the claim that a society is a multicellular organism for the latter if seen as a society looks like something worse than ISIS and North Korea combined.
Collectivism is an ideology that attempts to make a collection of humans closer to a multicellular organism. Of course it is a bad idea. Only individuals have interests and can feel pain. Hence only individuals can have rights.
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No.10830
>>10828
>To some extant only.
This isn't nihilism, though. It is to nihilism what minarchism is to anarchism. You should read David Chapman on Kegan and maybe Alrenous on mortality to put your own beliefs in context.
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No.10831
>>10830
"Morality", not "mortality".
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No.10834
>>10829
>To further clarify my stance let's talk about multicellular organisms. I'm not sure why such organisms exist at all but the first cells that got suck into multicellular organisms certainly did not get good deals. There are programmed cell deaths and other scenarios where an organism regularly kills its own cells.
You may enjoy reading "The Things", by Peter Watts. http://clarkesworldmagazine.com/watts_01_10/
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No.10848
>>10829
Multicellular organisms _won_.
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No.10849
>>10848
Do we really win against…bacteria in the same sense that bacteria wins against non-human multicellular organisms?
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No.10851
>>10829
I find it hilarious that you pretend to be this enlightened darwinist nihilist, and yet here you are deploying pre-darwinian moralistic arguments based on individuality and rights. Autist genocide when?
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No.10852
>>10851
I think you know how an autistic genocide can be stopped in the might is right sense.
We need AI on our side.
As for inconsistencies I will sort them out.
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No.10854
>>10852
>I think you know how an autistic genocide can be stopped in the might is right sense.
Buns 8=============D Oven
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No.10855
>>10854
If we autists hold a superintelligent AI or other stuff you are afraid of do you dare to try that?
The world can love us or hate us just as it pleases.
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No.10856
>>10855
I may have miscommunicated. I meant buns -> oven in the sense of getting women pregnant; it was not a joke about jews for a change.
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No.10857
>>10854
>Buns dick Oven
This could be a fairly subtle way of calling people motherfuckers.
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No.10858
>>10856
I'm a fan of the Jewish far right. I also like German far-rightists. However I disagree with antisemitism which I believe is a consequence of certain moral sentiments going haywire.
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No.10859
Anyway I'm an HBDer who respects but does not believe in ethnic nationalism among high-IQ races and ethnicities.
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No.10862
>>10856
I indeed did not realize your true meaning because I think about global genocides using nukes and other WMDs every day.
What matters is that people who are capable of commiting genocides against each other do not actually do so.
The best amoral argument I have about genocides is that they are generally not profitable because commiting undeclared genocides destroy the current global norms that regulate relationships among tribes. So even if you get lucky and manage to murder all but your tribe there is usually no Schelling point after which genocides must stop. Hence survivors are more likely to commit undeclared genocides against each other after the genocidal blitzkrieg. Hence one high-tech genocide tends to lead to another with people getting more and more homogeneous but new subgroups split out from survivors all the time. Eventually either survivors agree that genocides must be banned or there will be at most one human left. This is what I call the Spiral of Genocides.
Meanwhile if you do not target all but the ingroup there will always be fargroups left. What will they think? Imagine that one day all of Sub-Saharan Africa is depopulated by an ethnic biological weapon. The next day we see a country such as China moving in. What will you think about it? Do you think that China will stop at Africa? Nope. Everyone but the Chinese will be afraid that they are the next. Hence a global war against China will take place.
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No.10875
>>10858
>However I disagree with antisemitism which I believe is a consequence of certain moral sentiments going haywire.
In my case, it's aesthetic sentiments
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No.10879
>>10875
In my case, it's aesthetic sentiments
Please specify. I would like to hear your point of view.
You know I couldn't care less about aesthetics. Might is right.
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No.10880
>>10879
>You know I couldn't care less about aesthetics.
Shit taste.
I'll elaborate on my point of view but not now. My /pol/ pictures folder is terribly disorganised.
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No.10882
>>10879
You think aesthetics have nothing to do with might?
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No.10886
>>10882
Sure! However it is not a legit reason to believe that something is horrible. I can also claim that Detroit is heaven and Singapore is hell due to aesthetics if I want to. That does not show anything.
Ashkenazis are objectively great. You can't handwave their greatness into something awful.
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No.10889
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No.10890
>>10889
You think I'm commiting the irrational error of rationalization? Nope.
Do Ashkenazi Jews have low IQ on average? Nope. Do Ashkenazis make almost no contribution to science? Nope. Hence I'm fully justified in calling Ashkenazis great. I have an objective criteria of greatness and Ashkenazis satisfy this criteria. I didn't invent a set of criteria to declare Ashkenazis great.
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No.10953
>>10880
>I'll elaborate on my point of view but not now. My /pol/ pictures folder is terribly disorganised.
I've been really lazy and still haven't gotten around to doing this, but I haven't forgotten about it and I do intend to give an answer eventually.
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No.10966
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No.10967
>>10966
says the guy who has one good post per year and it's mostly just fucking sea trips or whatever
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No.10968
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No.10969
>>10966
What the fuck?
Down with irrationality!
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No.10970
>>10966
>>10968
Normalfag tears upon encountering SSC—delicious!
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No.10971
>>10970
Normtards need to go to hell.
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No.10972
The Pinboard guy is still at it. The probability is rising he will publish something specific, allowing Scott to deliver a thorough, thoughtful, nonviolent ass-whipping to a social media personality.
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No.10996
/r/Sneerclub is really disappointing.
I first came across it just after I'd read some sensible critique of Yudkowsky, about his expectations about AI and his attitude towards pop culture vs high culture and people with degrees. It didn't convince me that he was terrible (and it didn't try to), but it did add some much-needed nuance.
So I expected to learn things that added the same kind of nuance to my opinion about SSC and SSC-adjacent activities. But then I followed a link, and I just saw people quoting things and saying how much bullshit they were, and nobody was explaining why they were bullshit, and I kept scrolling and it was just more of the same. I wasn't learning much.
It's a place for people who already dislike the rationalist community to talk about how much they dislike them, not a place that tries to change minds. I should have expected that, from the name and the description, but it was disappointing anyway.
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No.11002
>>10996
I understand that it's hard to comprehend that your precious ingroup "grey tribe" member is wrong, but I think you're taking important steps on the path to enlightenment. That said:
nerd voice "It's a place for people who already dislike the rationalist community to talk about how much they dislike them, not a place that tries to change minds. I should have expected that, from the name and the description, but it was disappointing anyway."
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No.11004
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