/pol/ - Politically Incorrect

You do realize that "android devices" are literally still radios, right?

>>13611550

>the prize winning post by a leaf, without fail

They're digitized versions of radios operating on different frequencies with several layers of technical abstraction, which introduce a greater level of complexity and introduce vectors of attack.

Lol, they’re leaning in real hard on that internet. Good luck with all your eggs in one basket

>>13611549

>Is this actually the smart play, or is this a strategic setup for failure

Do you even need to ask? The US hasn't won a war in 80 years.

>>13611549

The UK Police has been using TETRA (encrypted shit) for decades and the Police in the USA are only now beginning to catch on and adopt the same type of system.

OK we know the USA is larger but you are only playing a game of 'catch-up'.

>>13611549

>phasing out

Surely the key to success is keeping your options open?

>>13611665

>Tetra

Lol.

Worked on that as an intern age ago.

We were selling them as 4G-ready devices despite only 1% of the protocol actually being there, and 3G being only working half the time due to being incomplete too (despite regular-ass phones having both working for a while already at that point).

>>13611636

They won Desert Storm. And they won every aspect of the other wars as well. They taliban never remotely defeated them in any battle or aspect of that war. They got completely demolished. All that happened was that we eventually left, and the remaining ones in hiding jumped out to claim victory.

>>13611550

>ou do realize that "android devices" are literally still radios, right?

in war with china lets use china radios…Leaf Tsu

>>13611549

didn't Elon just disable starlink for American soldiers in Ukraine because Putin told him to?

Good.

I spent 2 weeks digging holes in the desert because some 19 year old lost green gear.

Still nothing is more fun than trolling on encrypted comms, giving device IDs would ruin the fun

>>13611874

Why is the american millitary in ukraine?

Hi anon, veteran here.

My buddies who went overseas almost all had to call in air / artillery/ naval bombardments with a satellite phone…

The US military is such a joke

>>13611549

Sounds like a bad idea to me. The android devices will have to be networked. So they will constantly be generating network traffic that could give away positions. Even if you tell your soldiers to power them down when not in use you know they will forget sometimes. Security will be a nightmare. Russia and China have and will get their hands on android zero days. Soldiers will be using them to browse porn and other stupid shit. If they get hacked then the enemy could potentially take out your entire communication network (or more) if the use a virus that can move laterally. Pretty sure radios are way more durable and they can get wet and they wont overheat and die in 100+ degree F weather…

>>13611550

OP is retarded and the Army has been using minicomputers (Cellphones) as part of mobile comms for over a decade. MSE has always been cell towers towed by HMMWVs but it will never replace traditional radios.

>>13611562

Military radios already frequency hop and encrypt.

Sounds like starlink influence.

>>13611549

The military should communicate via carrier pigeon since they’re harder to shoot down

I've followed the saga of military radio as it continues to try to enter the 21st century, I'm a ham and have a few military radios myself. In military radio parlance they now call what normal people would call a mode, a 'waveform.' Digital radio and software defined radio are both very attractive to the military and there have been countless failed schemes to actually some combination of these two radio innovations into the hands of the troops so they can take advantage of new capabilities. I'm not even kidding, there are probably thousands of failed schemes going from just an idea that they went with while not doing much, to full systems being brought into pilot manufacturing runs. And those are just the ones we know about lol.

One of the big issues they always hit is that technology and miniaturization always makes the capabilities of a military radio seem antique by the time a new NATO standard waveform and matching solicitation for bids for a new radio platform has been agreed upon, the different countries all elbow each other to try to make a component for the radio, or competing radio, etc. So you end up with this moon-shot cost for something that has technology 15 years old by the time it hits the hands of the soldier to even test it and decide to go with it or not. And the physical devices are often unreliable, have poor batter life, are physically huge, etc. especially compared to stuff available to hams and businesses. Hams almost always have gear that's at least as good as the military's top stuff, and often ham gear is much more advanced because there's a shorter delay between design and marketing.

The other issue is the waveforms themselves, they want to get the most bandwidth as possible into whatever channel width on whatever bands they've selected. So they design these super complicated modems which always seem to get hot, have relatively poor range, and are not very good for copying weak signals, you either copied or it's as if there never was a transmission. This is in fact an issue inherent to almost all digital radio modes or waveforms which use modems, with certain exceptions. Some modes are made for copying weak signals specifically, but the data rate tends to be very low. Military wants high bandwidth which means, compromises are made and weak signals might as well not exist in that environment. To me it would have made much more sense for the military to pursue low bandwidth low power radios with just enough 'digital' features to be useful and practical.

>>13611550

It's a TERRIBLE fucking idea because these devices would be computers running an IP stack and all software is buggy. With analog radios there's nothing to 'hack' really, except maybe a series of access tones in certain systems like repeaters. Imagine the Chinese working at MIT sneak some test software into a radio because of academic partnerships with the MIC, this gets into SolarWinds again and BOOM all of a sudden some soldier looking shit up on his tacticool shartphone infects his squad, base, etc… Or somebody comes up with an exploit for the image decoding library used, etc. All the troops have to do is look at the newest funny meme and that's it for their device. There are many other problems with this type of gadget replacing a radio too. Radio should not be abandoned, good old analog radio will always be useful as well.

>>13611549

>in an age of electronic warfare, every man should have a homing beacon on his body

i mean, i know western armies are led by women and troons, but being this retarded

NATO is not fighting the taliban anymore

haven't they learn from the ukraine?

>>13611762

> They taliban never remotely defeated them in any battle or aspect of that war.

this is a toddlers understanding of conflict

the taliban wanted the west out of afghanistan

NATO wanted ot establish another globohomo feminist state

guess who got what they wanted and who's not?

>>13611880

because you won't let ukie soldiers handle the top shelf stuff and to ensure that all ukie men die, so jews can enslave the women

>>13611762

>They won Desert Storm. And they won every aspect of the other wars as well. They taliban never remotely defeated them in any battle or aspect of that war. They got completely demolished. All that happened was that we eventually left, and the remaining ones

>>13611762

>They won Desert Storm.

It took you 10 plus years to take out Saddam, starting from the 90s all the way to the 2000s with the help of a huge coalition, this is not the flex you think it is.

> They taliban never remotely defeated them in any battle or aspect of that war.

The Taliban held control over large swathes of Afghanistan, you mutts only ever truly held Kabul.

You understand that failing to defeat an enemy is a failure, right?

>>13614388

>you just know they cut corners and let jeets doing the software

Even when it was white men it was too much for the tech of the day, they military goofs don't understand that a solider can't carry a figher jet's worth of gear.

>>13611549

I have to confess I have no clue what happens between the microphone and the speaker of a military radio but one would think they are all digitised on some level, real time straight radio wave communication sounds like you're beging to be eavesdropped upon at best or actively tracked for termination, since a walkie talkie without short-burst capability is basically a beacon for anyone with the right ears to find, maybe not super important on company level but take out battalion HQ…

I think they should keep radios as a backup at the very least.

>>13614380

For what reason would we give those retarded faggots who don't even know what country they live in anything good so the Russians can study it when the Hohols inevitably sell it for a way out of the country? They should have surrendered and accepted their fate peacefully rather than letting the UK goad them on. They were the ones who wanted to fight to the last Ukrainian. Fuck em all. The ones who didn't go home to Russia can die and go to hell.

my God man, what language was that supposed to be. it was like watching a jeet teach other jeets how to add worthless shit into the code to get paid extra

>>13614524

>They should have surrendered and accepted their fate peacefully

they should have never started bombarding their own (russian) citizens(?)

but to stay real, zelensky is a leash dog of the MI-6 and nulands department

would have zelensky agreed to the russian peace plan, he would have been killed and swapped with someone that is okay with sacrificing ukies

>>13615543

Sort of funny how slow this place is… thread still here a few days later. It’s like watching grass grow

>>13615662

i just check in twice per day

seems to work

Yeah and let's also run the android machines on Starlink lole

>>13614512

Think of turning on a radio like turning on a light. Perhaps there is information modulated into the light that you can understand, maybe you can't. But you can see the light regardless of whether or not you can 'understand' the light. Radio is like this too, so not only are you going to hide information (with encryption or scrambling) so it can't be understood, but using the lowest possible amount of power to get the signal where it needs to go is critical. As you say burst transmissions are used, etc. But any time the radio is transmitting it's vulnerable to being detected and its source position determined. Modern radios also all use local oscillators for various purposes, they can be detected as well at a distance. In WWII the Allies and Axis alike used radio-detector vans which could sense not only the presence of a receiver in operation but which frequency it was tuned to as well (except crystal radios which do not give off emissions) so they could bag spies or people listening to enemy propaganda.

The problem with a smartphone-like device running a TCP/IP stack is that it will be communicating all the time, constantly. Unlike a radio where you would know if it's transmitting, there would really no way to remain 'radio silent' yet still receive orders or information.

>>13613100

>It's a TERRIBLE fucking idea because these devices would be computers running an IP stack and all software is buggy.

Too late.

The Ukrainians have proven how powerful this stuff is. No military can be without it now.

There are countermeasures to buggy software such as formally verification.

>>13616343

>The Ukrainians have proven how powerful this stuff is.

They don't use convergent devices like cell phones as tactical radios, do they? They apparently use Wifi for drone control though, but not because it's the best. It's because it's available.

Another issue I see is battery life. Moden smartphones have like 1-2 days at most. The always-on nature of such a device (it must be able to respond to packets etc.) makes this hard to overcome. OTOH an analog radio can be made to be extremely power efficient. I have a Yaesu VX-3 which is half the size of a pack of cigarettes, including battery and antenna, and if I turn on the power saving features all the way the battery can last over a WEEK. This comes at the cost of possibly missing part of the beginning of a transmission, the whole radio except for a microcontroller and the display are put to sleep for a selectable amount of time, then the MCU wakes the radio up super briefly to check if a signal is breaking squelch and stays on if it detects a signal, if not it goes back to sleep for the interval again. You couldn't do this well with a packet-based system because the radio can't miss packets.