No.406
Has /monarchy/ noticed that certain religions have a better track record of continuing the institution of monarchy than others?
Take Islam, for example. Today, Muslim countries are more like to be monarchies than non-Muslim ones, and most of the remaining absolute monarchies are Muslim. In fact, virtually all of the Ummah was run by monarchs, but many of them were overthrown by Western-influenced revolutionaries in the last century.
That's why I'm thinking of converting to Islam, to help strengthen the moral fiber of my life and to further the cause of monarchism. Anyone else thinking the same?
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No.408
that's fine, after the Crusades I will use your scarf as my tablecloth. DEUSVULT!
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No.409
>>408
Reported for underage.
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No.410
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No.414
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No.417
>That's why I'm thinking of converting to Islam, to help strengthen the moral fiber of my life and to further the cause of monarchism.
Top cuck. I seriously hope you are joking there, how is becoming a Muslim going to help in any way? As someone who has lived in Islamic countries for most of my life, I can tell you that Islam is no better than Judaism or Christianity, in fact it is probably the worst of the three.
You do have a point though, most surviving monarchies are Muslim nations, still I don't see why you would do such an ass-backwards move as becoming a Muslim, or maybe I'm just being baited really hard.
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No.453
>>417
Not OP but the reason i think monarchy has survived more in the Islamic world is because Islam has remained less affected by various modernisms. Not to say that it is unaffected, but most Muslims still live in a "traditional world", ie. a religious world that is less affected by modernism (modernISM, not modernITY). I don't think monarchy is really possible without religion and Islam really is probably the only religion left in the world that still has kept many of the same principles and customs, at least on a larger scale than all the other monarchy generating faiths, which are conducive to the flourishing of monarchical values. Certainly Muslim monarchies aren't perfect (and of course, I think what distinguishes the monarchist from others is his willingness to admit the inevitable imperfection of any system, including his own), but they're the only monarchies left in the world whose rulers are still men of power. And if there isn't at least one or two of them worth admiring, then I personally think our continued commitment to monarchy is pointless because then we don't have very much in the way of modern examples that we can use which display the relative success of monarchical forms of government vis a vis republics or parliamentary democracies. Historical examples won't do because the mindset of people now is prone to say "well, that was then, and this is now. Times have changed," and so historical examples can always be judged based on modern criteria (so and so was a good ruler FOR THE TIME because he was more "democratic" or "enlightened" than usual in how he ruled)
The problem Western monarchists have is that Western Christianity is no longer as firmly rooted in those same values which cultivated monarchy throughout the centuries in the West and Christianity. I mean, I feel bad if you're a Catholic monarchist because if you're banking on the Church suddenly eschewing modernism and egalitarianism at this point and promoting a return to the hierarchical political order of the middle ages and a new Holy Roman Emperor as a solution to modern dilemmas, I wouldn't hold your breath. If you're a Muslim, at least there might be one example of a current monarchy that you can look at and say that it is at least somewhat close to your ideal form of Muslim government.
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No.904
Orthodox Christianity has maintained a monarchical system up until 100 years ago.. Ever since the Roman empire, the rules for civilization were established. With Constantine making Christianity legal and establishing a new Christian capital for the empire, a new standard was set; an emperor must be Roman, and adhere to the orthodox faith. These rules allowed Constantinople to last for over a thousand years. When it fell, the torch passed to Russia, which to some is seen as the third Rome. The Royal family of Romanovs married into byzantine nobility. So, in reality, the last Roman emperor died less than 100 years ago. One day we might see a return to tradition.
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No.909
>>406
>That's why I'm thinking of converting to Islam, to help strengthen the moral fiber of my life and to further the cause of monarchism.
You are delusional if you think the Muslim monarchies are anything to go by. Are you incapable of nuance that you think any monarchic arrangement is preferable? Bar Oman, these countries are corrupt shitholes that infringe on the freedoms of their subjects on a daily basis. And surprise surprise, Islam is only a smokescreen for the lavish drug induced drunk orgies the ruling class throws, away from peering eyes. t. had a friend who experienced that first hand in Saudia
But please, be the useful idiot you apparently yearn so much to be.
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No.910
>>904
That actually explains a lot. The Byzantine Empire always was absolutistic and centralistic, from what I know, like the Roman Empire before it. Russia, too, seemed to have been relatively centralized under the Romanovs. So I guess there might be a link, unless I mischaracterize the Romanovs.
I'm more of a fan of the early medieval model of society, where sovereignty didn't descend from the king down to all his subjects, but was layered. Every lord was sovereign towards his respective subjects and was the subject of someone else, and the relationship between each layer was based on mutual responsibilities even though there was a clear hierarchy.
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No.911
>>406
muslim world is monarchic becuase they are no lower stage of development compared to 1st world
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No.933
>Has /monarchy/ noticed that certain religions have a better track record of continuing the institution of monarchy than others?
Not really. Turkey, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Pakistan, Egypt, Lybia, Tunisia, Indian princely states, Iran… all those countries had monarchical regimes, centralized or not, and got rid of them due N reasons. No better record.
If you mean, absolute monarchies, or at least ones were the ruler have real power, yes, i supposed you could be right.
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No.1008
>>910
The Orthodox connection to a monarchist system is interesting, and, if anything, one could claim that Protestantism has something of the opposite influence.
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No.1009
>>911
…can someone translate this into English?
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No.1026
>>1009
sorry it should have been
>muslim world is monarchic becuase they are on lower stage of development compared to 1st world
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No.1031
>>1026
c.f. picture in >>440 .
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No.1180
>>1008
Capitalist industrialization in 1st world countries is a roadblock to a return to feudalism
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No.1181
>>1026
>progressivism
>ever
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No.1182
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No.1185
>>1182
>progressivism
>same as technological progress
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No.1202
>>1185
so what is progressivism? changing policies at high rate?
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No.1209
>>1202
Basically, the belief that as time progresses, society and politics get better, too. Progressivists think that the world is steadily improving and no one can do anything about it.
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No.1214
>>1209
i see
so im not a progressivist then
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No.1254
>>1209
I like how leftists assume that people are inherently good yet dismiss every proof to the contrary as something which keeps the goodness down
<once we do away with family, identity, tribe, language and culture everyone will be the goodest!
<Please ignore participants of "knockout game", it's racist society keeping them down
<Kids who torture animals for fun just don't know better!
<Well, people steal because they're poor, not their fault! disregard large numbers of those who are poor yet don't steal
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No.5044
>>1254
Pretty much this.
The eternal optimist.
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No.5045
>>453
>modernISM, not modernITY
Your average kebab country is pretty lacking in both.
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No.5638
>>904
The Romanov Dynasty was one of the last unfettered monarchies without the hindrances of the political class and constitutionalism. The last high culture and ceremonial empires before the elite decided anti-imperialism and world peace, revolutionary ideology, and civic values were all that mattered and emperors were 'incompetent'.
Unfortunately, even constitutional monarchies lose balance and the idea of restraint only applies to the monarch, not the assembly, for what the constitution constrains.
>>910
>I'm more of a fan of the early medieval model of society, where sovereignty didn't descend from the king down to all his subjects, but was layered. Every lord was sovereign towards his respective subjects and was the subject of someone else, and the relationship between each layer was based on mutual responsibilities even though there was a clear hierarchy.
That point of view never left. It was never bottom-up, as in that 'The People' choose this. Monarchy was always a top-down framework. It doesn't go up to the king, but to God as the top of the hierarchy. This continues with coronations. Kings are just a higher status and stature than Lord in the hierarchy, while earl is another level of the hierarchy: this is hierarchy, different layered levels, but with the king invested with the most temporal authority above the peers.
Hence the name 'Sovereignty' meaning "above" and "reigning" – reigning from above, rather than the rule of those below, aka 'The People'. Lords are just another notch in the hierarchy, but don't have command over everyone as a king does.
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No.5639
In my opinion, the real problem is the vilification of the term 'authority'' as something belonging only to the 'State' in all spheres rather than being all-encompassing. It's not monarchy or the absolute that has changed. It's political thought and how people view the world. These things have always been essential as a whole structure and a wholesome hierarchy, concerning everyone within their rank and status.
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No.5642
As for you, OP, it isn't any religion and spirituality has failed the West, but that people have discarded religion and spirituality from their worldviews. The rise of democracy has come with the democratic void.
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No.6763
>>5638
>Portraying God the father
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No.6765
>>904
Catholics had monarchies until the same time period and we still have a few small monarchies of micro countries including the vatican
(sage for dead thread)
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No.6779
>>406
I've noticed this as well, but after looking into /islam/, I don't see a consistent moral fiber in this religion.
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No.6929
>>406
This is such a roundabout way of saying that you are a retarded shill
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No.7179
>>406
If you want to know how it is like check the Turks under Osmanoğlu dynasty.
A dynasty that lasted 600 God Damn years left Turks in the dark ages and bleeding white literally begging for someone to demolish the whole thing and start over (Atatürk). An you can ask Balkans about their experiences as vassals or direct control under Ottomans, with Jizye tax and devshirme system.
TL;DR: Get your head together and stay as you are, Dingo.
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