No.3886
Someone needs to honor this man for being the reactionary arch-nemesis of Rousseau. Academics call him the proto-fascist Isaiah Berlin. Others call him a shadow of the Dark Ages. Maistre and Counter-Enlightenment figures deserve a place somewhere in our hearts for stepping in the light of Progress and stomping it out.
I recommend reading Maistre's Against Rousseau. The place of origin for this PDF fell apart. I am keeping it here because it is an important piece and deserves a read. I am also recommending http://maistre.uni.cx/sovereignty.html this read.
>Against Rousseau
Deals with the leftist 'noble savage' and the Left's consistent belief that human nature is benevolent and happy in the state of nature. Deals with institutional belief and property. It is a remarkable relevant read for monarchists/reactionaries alike.
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No.3887
This is also a brilliant read.
On a side note, Maistre was also a weeb.
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No.3904
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No.3911
>>3886
but he was a freemason
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No.3912
>>3911
A lot of royals were freemasons. I don't like freemasonry either. The thing is, with freemasonry, you cannot pin anyone down for being a freemason and come to an easy conclusion. Kaiser Wilhelm II was anti-masonic and his father was one, I believe. You find conflicts like this.
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No.3924
>>3887
can you please link me where he said that about the Japanese?
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No.3926
>>3924
It is in the Saint Petersburg Dialogues. I think around chapter 8-9. It is somewhere deep. Going to link the pdf because it's a big file size.
http://www.strobertbellarmine.net/books/Maistre--St_Petersburg_Dialogues.pdf>>3924
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No.3929
>>3926
Thanks
Also it's on chapter 9 page 274 for anyone else's sake
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No.4001
It's a shame I don't see enough monarchists talking about Maistre lately.
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No.4100
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No.4101
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>Isaiah Berlin - Lecture on Joseph de Maistre
<This was the third of the four Woodbridge Lectures, 'Two Enemies of the Enlightenment' (Hamann and Maistre), delivered on the 27th of October in 1965 at the Harkness Theater, Columbia University.
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No.4102
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
A spergy reading of Essay on the Generative Principle of Political Constitutions
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No.4127
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No.4160
>>4127
You're something else, anon.
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No.4174
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No.4267
Here's an interesting screencap.
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No.4302
To Maistre's credit, in his work Against Rousseau, his outright denial of the 'state of nature' is astonishing. His response is that man was not created for the state of nature and is made for civilization. As Maistre puts it…
>"With Rousseau's mentality, man breaks the state of nature for cooking an egg."
And also denies that there was a 'primitive' man. There is only a 'savage' man. Primitive man is a mirage.
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No.4410
De Maistre is an enlightenment thinker in monarchist garb, while he very successfully attacks bourgeois thought, he does so from the positions and through the means which themselves presuppose bourgeois thought, that would have been inconceivable at any period during which the ancien regime had been secure.
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No.4411
>>4410
>De Maistre is an enlightenment thinker
>bourgeois thought
You give too much credit to yourself. If Maistre isn't good enough, then hardly anyone on this board is.
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No.4748
Check out Considerations on the France.
Here is PDF for curious Maistre readers.
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No.5073
Maistre needs more readers.
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No.7311
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No.7312
>>7311
I found this a while ago.
/monarchy/ is a pretty bi-polar board, with the soft hand of libertarian monarchists and the hard-handed, authoritarian absolutists. A dash of moderates and that one guy who just wants a ceremonial monarchy.
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No.7315
>>7312
I can't speak for all libertarian monarchists, but I'm anything but soft-handed. Over my private property, I rule with an iron fist. Communists, free-riders, foreigners, and other undesirables will be expelled from the covenant community with extreme prejudice. Those who resist removal will be shot, and their bodies disposed of by the McGarbage service the next morning.
As a side-note, I'm not sure fascism truly belongs in infographics such as these, or if it does it should go right after generic conservative. The majority of fascists and NEETSocs that you find on places such as 8chan flock to the ideology out of a puerile desire to be as edgy and contrarian as possible, and to that end they adopt symbolism which pains normies the most. This is also why they tend to become pagans (or take the next step in contrarianism and shill for white islamic Sharia). They have no conceptual grounds on which to base their philosophy, and construct their beliefs entirely on aesthetic. There are exceptions to this rule, which came around to fascism, corporatism, and similar modes of thought through genuine understanding of history and human nature, but they are few and far between; I can count the ones I've encountered on my thumbs.
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No.7323
>>7312
>Fascists are one step removed from traditionalists
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No.7327
>>7312
You know, Hoppe is furthering the decline; his entire philosophy is effectively liberal, he just takes freedom of association to the nth degree by promoting freedom to disassociate (i.e. freedom to work outside of and undermine the state).
I know that it is touted as the future because people are complete retards. People have predicted that the "next revolution" will involve the essential ceasing to be of society in favour of essentially autonomous communes at least since the failures of October 1917. But it doesn't mean shit, because ultimately people like having cold beer from a working refrigerator more than they like revolutionary agitation.
Really Hoppe and other libertarians are just cringe and blue-pilled liberal Jacobins with blue balls from failing to destroy society any further. Ironically it is the modern aristocrats who are living the dream that Hoppeans desire for themselves, because they are Jacobin pricks at heart.
As a monarchist, cold beer from a working refrigerator is easily worth costing the lives of 1,000 Lolbertarians, or 10,000 Republicans/Jacobins
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No.7330
>>7327
Jacobins were not proper liberals.
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No.7332
>>7330
>Real liberalism has never yet been tried
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No.7333
>>7323
There's also this. Even without anon contrarianism exacerbating these tendencies, historically fascism did a lot to overturn tradition.
>is entire philosophy is effectively liberal, he just takes freedom of association to the nth degree by promoting freedom to disassociate
You claim that Hoppe is liberal, then use a decidedly illiberal position as proof of this.
>because ultimately people like having cold beer from a working refrigerator more than they like revolutionary agitation.
Yes, that's why leftism in all its forms fails.
>Really Hoppe and other libertarians are just cringe and blue-pilled liberal Jacobins with blue balls from failing to destroy society any further
Hoppe frequently calls for a restoration of the natural order, and repeatedly advocates for actions that would preserve society at all costs. Why else would he side with law enforcement over the antifaggots? I have to wonder if you actually know anything about Hoppe's positions, or if you're just purity-spiraling.
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No.7335
>>7327
>>7315
YOU TWO BETTER BEHAVE WHILE THIS TYRANT IS GONE, OR YOU'RE BOTH GETTING MERCILESSLY FLOGGED
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No.7337
>>7333
To be honest, I'm not as informed about Hoppe as I should be but I still want to litigate my original point, which was;
>his entire philosophy is effectively liberal, he just takes freedom of association to the nth degree by promoting freedom to disassociate
<You claim that Hoppe is liberal, then use a decidedly illiberal position as proof of this.
How is it illiberal to promote freedom to disassociate? It's not orthodox liberalism, and ultimately it is the creed of a hermit, but nevertheless it is an anti-traditional freedom, supported only by pacifists, hermits and other degenerates. There is no legitimate opt-out from society, even in the Church – if you want to press that point – there is society in a certain form.
I doubt you'd argue with me on this point.
>Hoppe calls for restoration of natural order
I know, but there is a definite inconsistency above, that's all I'm saying, ergo not worthy of being classed as a final red-pill. (I'm defending the image in my post here >>7311 over this version here >>7312 )
>>7335
I'd rather have 1 tyrant 3,000 miles away than 3,000 tyrants less than a mile away. But because of you, and that I live in a democracy, it looks like I have both sadly. Anyway, that's enough from you.
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No.7338
>>7337
>How is it illiberal to promote freedom to disassociate?
The liberal position is to equate freedom of association with forced association. Hoppe does the opposite of this by emphasizing the right of people to discriminate, and the many positive benefits of such.
>ultimately it is the creed of a hermit
You mean forced dissociation? That's very far removed from freedom of dissociation. You dissociate with undesirables and associate with desirables. This isn't even an ideological question, it's human nature. You interact with people you like and distance yourself from people you don't like.
>supported only by pacifists
The statement implicit in private property and freedom of dissociation is "stay away don't fuck with me or I shoot you." That's far from pacifist.
>There is no legitimate opt-out from society, even in the Church – if you want to press that point – there is society in a certain form.
>I doubt you'd argue with me on this point.
I wouldn't, and neither would Hoppe. He argues that freedom of dissociation (which again, does not mean hermitship, but homogeneity and cohesion) is essential to building society and making it more robust. Rather than some multicultural hellscape of forced association, Hoppe argues we should make use of our in-group preference, only associate with desirables, and trade from a distance with other people, such that we retain the benefits of trade and comparative advantage, without incurring the social costs associated with diversity.
>I know, but there is a definite inconsistency above
What inconsistency? This all seems hinged on your assumption that freedom of dissociation means everyone lives in autarky, which simply isn't true.
I wanted to post this picture >>6923 but I can't post duplicate images.
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No.7339
>>7338
Ok, I read the image you attached, and I understand the point now, although technically a king should by rights be able to force conformance to basic standards or physical removal.
Maybe I'm just thinking of things in a sense devoid of individual choice
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No.7343
>>7339
>although technically a king should by rights be able to force conformance to basic standards or physical removal.
That's one of the reasons Hoppe considers monarchy to be the least bad form of government. The king's incentives are very close to that of a private property owners, since a king's realm is effectively his private property. As a result, it's generally in his own interests to physically remove (called exile or banishment) the undesirables, and to reign in a relatively hands-off fashion as that benefits his own revenues in the long run.
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No.7347
>>7343
I have heard that argument from him and it is convincing, anyway, thanks, it's certainly interesting.
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No.7357
>>7332
>people who set up dictatorships and execute anybody who disagrees with them for being counter-revolutionary are liberals
They were proto-Marxists. The French Revolution was an ideological clusterfuck.
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No.7591
he's not bad, prefer Hobbes. I do like Rousseau but for reasons more tied to Pentti Linkola than any anprim.
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No.7597
>>7591
>prefer Hobbes
I don't see how you could prefer one or the other. Both make useful monarchist arguments. Yet Bodin still emphasizes the family and has the merit of being older than Hobbes. Try Bodin.
>>7343
>That's one of the reasons Hoppe considers monarchy to be the least bad form of government
I think I have been too hard on Hoppe. With Hobbes and Hoppe, people think almost as though they were polar opposites. An absolutist social contract theorist and an Austrian school libertarian. Yet both make the case that even a monarch's self-interest could benefit the common good. That was a big point from Hobbes, who stressed that even a self-interested monarch can benefit the common good.
Everyday, we are so close yet so far apart.
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No.7598
>>7597
I got the book now so I will. I hate Hans-Hermann Hoppe because of his eugencist arguments against the poor. No Christian man would follow such a bastard.
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No.7599
>>7598
>I hate Hans-Hermann Hoppe because of his eugencist arguments against the poor.
The only thing Hans-Hermann Hoppe suffers from me is painful neglect. I'm sure that as a monarchist thinker, Hoppe is all right. Even if it is the case that monarchy is the 'least bad form of government', that's still a huge compliment coming from anarchists. I wouldn't complain there.
>against the Poor
I wouldn't know about this. It is often the case that libertarians are pushed into the "muh rich people" camp, but they have also been against corporations being in bed with the political class and their lackeys. That is the least I would know.
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No.7603
>>7598
>because of his eugencist arguments against the poor.
Hoppe makes no such argument. At worst, he demonstrates through argument that the poor tend to be higher time-preference, more present-oriented people. However, he makes no normative suggestions as to what, if anything, should be done about this fact of reality.
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