No.2989
How does /monarchy/ feel about imperialism and the legacy of colonial empires? Do we have apologists for it? For or against it?
Common arguments are the colonial empires benefit the conquered in building various institutions like hospitals, schools, and developing the economy in exchange for the resources. Christian missionaries also followed in the dominion of empires, spreading Christianity and churches along the way. From the Christian perspective, this is a very benevolent force of colonialism. Among these benefactors, the empires were not all necessarily violent in their expansion. A few of the indigenous people and local royalty chose to side with the empires. Nothing comes without price, so the subjects of imperial rule surely had to benefit the colonial rulers. It still benefited both to a degree, despite the subjugation or incorporation of those peoples. The rise and fall of empires brings glories and shame across the globe. Yet nobody would give away an empire, as the empires were a higher status among nations.
Obvious downfalls were the violence and horrors of the domain. No person easily accepted subjugation without a cost. The cost-benefit evaluation always throttles. When faced with enemies, it comes to compromises with a higher power, but it often means being taken advantage of. Still, for what colonial empires were, the name British Empire still evokes a sense of pride and glory.
If not for empires, it should be stated what better alternatives ought to exist. What we see in the world today is touted to be imperialism in disguise and a few mark the United States as an empire. Despite the US being far from the glories of an empire, there is a perceived hegemony across the globe. – Besides that, what models there instead of an empire is interesting enough. Like monarchy, I consider an empire to be most honest in how desirable it is to take the status of an empire.
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No.2990
My perspective is it gave Europe its own Wild West to explore and opportunities to explore. I consider it magnificent to have a wide frontier to cross and different cultures to meet and interact with. An imperial ruler and competing influences always sounds exciting.
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No.2991
Imperialism is the gateway to globalism.
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No.2993
>>2991
Imperialism is inevitable.
There were empires since ancient civilization. It is something abused as an excuse for faulty immigration policies and reparations because it's "revenge" for the colonial past. It's pretty silly to see that.
Mussolini expanded his own empire for Italy and this pissed off the League of Nations who were globalists. What about them? I'll admit imperialism enabled globalism we see today, but I wouldn't confess it to be the root of the same ideology.
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No.2998
The strong rules over the weak, nothing wrong.
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No.3005
HookTube embed. Click on thumbnail to play.
"I do not understand what blowback is or how it could ever happen or topple an empire" the thread.
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No.3007
>>3005
I don't see the US as a legitimate empire despite what detractors say. It is a hegemonic and idealistic state and is no more of an empire than the USSR was in the Cold War. None of them have the glories of having an emperor or caring about the colonies.
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No.3195
I'll be the first to admit I haven't read all the way through pdf related. However, it's worth noting that the greatest civilizing forces in the world were all empires.
>Alexander
>Rome
>Catholicism (still Rome I guess)
>Brittania
>'Murica
The biggest thing facing burgers is not "Are we an empire?" The Question is "What do we have worth being imperial about?"
I defy ZOG. And it's a damn shame that I do, cuz they're pretty good at the whole power thing. If only they weren't such Jews about it all…
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No.3206
>>3005
>I am a pussy lolbert faggot, the faggot
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No.3207
>>3195
America could only be an anti-traditional 'empire' and many leftist ex-communists want to use it that way.
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No.3272
>>3206
>I am a pussy faggot, the faggot
BURN! Don't even bother replying.
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No.3319
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No.3639
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No.3640
>>3639
No anon, it's very right. We all need an imperial dynasty.
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No.3651
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No.3666
If by imperialism you mean conquest and seizure with enemies incapacitated then sure. Man has done it since the Neanderthals were crushed.
If by imperialism you mean teaching, feeding, clothing, and otherwise giving gibsmedats to Muds then no. As Rome, the Islamic Empires, and the UK has shown it just leads to or goes in line with mongrelization, demotism, and overall degeneration.
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No.3673
>>2991
>>3651
Autism.
>>2989
I hate proxy imperialism, which we have today. Either be upfront about it like we (as in, the US) were before progressivism, or don't, and stay isolationist, like most Americans were.
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No.3682
>>3666
Well, Satan. I precisely mean both. Bring customs and cultural dominance, and also become imperial over nations that are subordinate vassals.
>gibsmedat
No, unless it comes to benefit the imperial regime in an exchange between the subordinate and the insubordinate.
>teaching
It has to begin somewhere during conquest.
>clothing
Not necessary, unless you incorporate colonial clothing and fixate native customs to the imperial regime
>mongrelization
Should be avoided. Vassals, as subordinates, will stay in their own sphere and their native social hierarchy, while the dominate imperial civilization maintains relations with the hierarchy and conducts diplomacy well enough.
>overall degeneration
I doubt it is the imperial power that degenerates, it is simply the civilization and sheer tension that degenerates a culture. Being weak and not expansive, failing to spread your culture, and failing to muster strength also leads to degeneration much faster. Empires rise and fall and there are risks and a chance to really strive for imperial glory.
>>3673
Neo-imperialism, or proxy imperialism, whatever you call it, isn't imperialism. It is a bastardized international offspring of modernism and fails where imperialism flourishes. It is rootless without a concept of vassalhood, has no imperial dynasty, and doesn't have any significance except for ideological expansion – not cultural or national ascending.
>>2989
This board is the only place you are able to become an apologist for imperialism. Every other board usually contemplates imperialism as a predecessor for the world today and don't see imperialism in its own right.
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No.3751
>>3673
Leave it to a brainlet to post "meme" with a statue of Caracalla, one of the worst Roman emperors.
Why are reactionaries so stupid?
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No.3758
>>3751
>worst
But he granted citizenship to all freemen regardless of ancestry. I thought cucks like you would appreciate that judging by how you welcome Pablo and Achmed.
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No.3759
>>3751
>Why are reactionaries so stupid?
>>>/leftypol/
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No.3796
>>3758
It wasn't that much of a prize when he did it, and he did it essentially to widen the tax base.
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No.3804
Just restore the monarchies of the conquered people and imperials will have nothing to apologize.
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No.3822
>>3195
>However, it's worth noting that the greatest civilizing forces in the world were all empires.
I won't deny that, it's basically inevitable. Only the civilized world has the excess capital lying around to make colonies and try to beautify third world shitholes. But it begs the question, why would you want to? Even if you're not handing out gibs to the colonized peoples, playing babysitter to them will inevitably become an expensive chore, that yields little reward except for satisfying the European urge for pathological altruism. The empires were a net drain on the resources after all, because trying to bring civilization to barbarians is a daunting and expensive process. Look after your own first, Lord knows there isn't a single country out there completely free of domestic problems.
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No.3834
https://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?p=2239849#post2239849
>But imperialism/colonialism as an aim would be bad for Whites. Reasons:
>1) Backwash. Pursuing a policy of imperialism/colonialism necessarily means being a multi-racial empire, with all the miscegenation and degeneracy that entails. Imperialism/colonialism not only leads to members of the imperial legions "going native": more importantly, it means refugee backwash. Conquered peoples always have their revenge by dispersing their refugees and other migrants in the lands of their conqueror. This happens either gradually, as in the case of US imperialism (Vietnam, Middle East) or less gradually, as in the case of France and Algiers. That last example is a good case study. France's imperial interference in Algiers had only one world-historical result: it pumped untold amounts of black blood into France. The nightly carbeques et al. are a result of French colonialism in Algiers. It made no difference that the French tortured the Algerians in the Algerians' own land, in the sense that this served as no disincentive to their emigrating from Algiers.
>It would do no good to declare, "We shall not permit imperial subjects to move around within the empire." A multi-racial empire is what it is.
>2) Collapse. Multi-racial empires always collapse destructively. The easy examples are Portugal and ancient Rome. Even helots create snowballing problems which wreck the system, so that Jefferson did not really go far enough when he wrote, "the two races, equally free, cannot live in the same government." Free or slave, non-whites are tar babies: dominating, owning, trading, screwing, employing, or ruling over them leads ineluctably to amalgamation. Or to put the point in popular language: any touch of shit on ice cream ruins the ice cream.
>All that is fairly obvious, but for some reason Spencer isn't addressing it, to my knowledge– perhaps he has a desire to rule the world and this is clouding his thoughts, or perhaps he sees no clear way forward for Whites and so is reaching back somewhat desperately for old solutions. I don't know. But rewinding the tape of imperialism/colonialism and playing it again won't lead to a different ending.
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No.4351
>>3834
>imperialism bad for Whites
Without imperialism, there wouldn't be Whites across the globe. Think of all the lands and colonial people. Globalism and international human rights and international bodies and general kikery is not imperialism.
>"Neo-imperialism, or proxy imperialism, whatever you call it, isn't imperialism. It is a bastardized international offspring of modernism and fails where imperialism flourishes. It is rootless without a concept of vassalhood, has no imperial dynasty, and doesn't have any significance except for ideological expansion – not cultural or national ascending."
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No.4358
>>4351
>Without imperialism, there wouldn't be Whites across the globe.
Yes and no. You wouldn't have had the rapid, systematic expansion that the Empire had, but that's not stopping enterprising individuals from setting out for distant lands on their own. The Plymouth colony was founded and maintained by Puritan separatists, for instance, not the crown, and while the initial Jamestown settlement might have been organized by the crown, it was largely the efforts of private entrepreneurs that caused it to prosper.
Also, why is it so desirable for whites to be "all across the globe?" Why not stick to our own lands and strive to mold them into the best they can be, instead of playing parent to all the shitskins of the world?
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No.4362
>>4358
>why is it so desirable for whites to be "all across the globe?"
I admit, it isn't desirable. I like the diversity of this world. However, I also love the 'frontier' experience and sensation of expedition and so on. I am only making the case.
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No.4363
>why is it so desirable for whites to be "all across the globe?"
i want to do tourism to africa and not be killed
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No.4367
>>4363
Fair, but you don't need to finance permanent colonies for that.
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No.4374
>>4367
>anti-colonial sentiments on my /monarchy/
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No.4377
>>4351
>Without imperialism, there wouldn't be Whites across the globe. Think of all the lands and colonial people. Globalism and international human rights and international bodies and general kikery is not imperialism.
>pretending they aren't connected
Anyway, the White Race is in the sorry state it is in part from imperialism. The Rapeugee problem is just another form of the problem where select Europeans have a habit of composing systems and demanding the world to be placed in those systems. You saw it with the Romans (who as the empire grew older believed that they were obligated to gift their empire to non-Romans), the British, and the now the SJW.
>>"Neo-imperialism, or proxy imperialism, whatever you call it, isn't imperialism. It is a bastardized international offspring of modernism and fails where imperialism flourishes. It is rootless without a concept of vassalhood, has no imperial dynasty, and doesn't have any significance except for ideological expansion – not cultural or national ascending."
You seem to be ignoring how every attempt to build a world empire has ended in mongrelization and collapse or lose of vigor and cuckoldry.
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No.4378
>>4377
Empires rise and fall.
Better than being weak and docile.
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No.4379
>SJW imperialists
Get out. I am sick and tired of imperial dynasties and the like being thrown in with the multi-national globalist entities. I differentiated the two. I am not ignoring anything.
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No.4380
>>4377
>The Rapeugee problem is just another form of the problem where select Europeans have a habit of composing systems and demanding the world to be placed in those systems.
Not imperialism. It's kikes. It's being infatuated with an internationalist and anti-European ideology. There are no imperial dynasties doing this. This is the work of international cliques and a strong agenda to impose multiculturalism.
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No.4387
Japan has the imperial dynasty and was isolationist for centuries. You might say, "Well, that's not real imperialism." I am not ignoring anything here. This is a poor excuse to not have a grand imperial dynasty. This retardation of conflating the modern ideological hegemony and internationalism as being 'imperialism'. No better than the anti-imperialist gommies.
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No.4388
The Kaiserreich was an empire without necessarily having colonial vestiges. It was a federal monarchy with kingdoms. There was a 'German Emperor' who was also 'King of Prussia' and it was imbibed with the Prussian spirit. Don't give me this deal that what we have today is imperialism. There are not enough imperial dynasties in this world.
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No.4389
The crybaby era of international human rights and migrants is not imperialism. Chivalry and honor still meant something with imperialism.
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No.4391
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
The real question is "Is colonization or genocide the answer?"
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No.4393
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No.4394
>>4374
Don't take my words the wrong way, I'm not about to start tut-tutting the empires of old for exploiting muh poor innocent shitskins. I just see it as a waste of time and resources. It's debatable whether the colonies were a net gain or loss to their parent Europeans, and even if they were ultimately in the black, it's still not worth the opportunity cost. Sure, you might get some marginal gains from trying to teach civilization to a bunch of savages who neither want nor understand it, but consider how much greater the returns would be if you took that same sum, and invested it in a cultured, educated group of of your own countrymen?
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No.4395
>>4394
Let me compare the major colonial powers' legacies (I'll miss a lot, some are arguable, I'm ignoring a lot of minor bullshit and mainly islands, whatever, this is cursory):
> Britain: Canada, U.S., Belize, South Africa, Rhodesia, Hong Kong, Australia, New Zealand, Jamaica, Nigeria, Kenya, Egypt
> Spain: Central and Latin America
> France: Quebec, Louisiana, Haiti, Chad, Algeria, Sudan, Madagascar, Senegal, Niger, Tunisia, Syria, Laos, Vietnam
> Belgium: the Congo
> Portugal: Angola, Timor, Macao, Brazil, Mozambique
> Japan: Manchuria
> Netherlands: Suriname, Indonesia, South Africa
> Germany: Cameroon, Namibia, Rwanda, Tanzania
> Italy: Somalia
> Denmark: Greenland, Iceland
If I were to rank them in terms of outcomes (whatever that means, and however you'd scale it against population), I guess I'd say something like this:
Good parents:
>Britain, Denmark
O.K. parents:
> Spain, Portugal, Japan
Bad parents:
> Germany, Italy, Netherlands
Shit parent:
> France
Worst parent:
> Belgium
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No.4399
>>4395
A loose correlation I'm noticing here is that the two "good parents" had more colonies that ended up being self-governing, ie Europeans governing other Europeans, as opposed to Europeans playing nanny to savages.
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