853c40 No.685840 [Last50 Posts]
How were the British able to bring one of the most powerful nations in the world to it's so quickly and with so few soldiers? Every book I've come across on the subject mostly focuses on how shameful it was for the British to wage two wars just to be able to sell drugs to the Chinese. The most they ever say about the conflict itself is just "the British won because they had superior firearms" but that doesn't explain much. The Chinese outnumbered the Brits 10 to 1 and were on the defensive. They still should have had the advantage.
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09e216 No.685843
1. Corrupt leadership, China at the time was ruled by a woman regent Empress Dowager.
2. Its military is old, outdated and lacks fighting morale.
3. Opium makes people weak, addicted and lazy, this coupled with the decadent late stage feudalism.
It's crazily effective.
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97cba1 No.685845
>chinese wars
There is something about chinks that makes them incompetent.
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89298e No.685846
>wtf how did the strong smart white man defeat the short dumb and weak chinkmen???
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ebcf1e No.685849
>>685846
One doesn't even have to be that strong, smart and white to curbstomp them by the droves
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outpost_Harry.
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97335e No.685851
>>685840
>one of the most powerful nations in the world
It really wasn't, it just thought it was. A large country doesn't make a powerful nation.
Their military was often medieval-tier unmotivated, unskilled peasants and heavily hampered by corruption and incompetence that basically made their artillery more useless than it already was.
Impressive numbers, but ultimately very, very shit.
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2e2e36 No.685852
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71abac No.685860
>>685840
From (((Wiki)))
>The British military superiority during the conflict drew heavily on the success of the Royal Navy.[128]
>British warships carried more guns than their Chinese opponents and were maneuverable enough to evade Chinese boarding actions. Steam ships such as HMS Nemesis were able to move against winds and tides in Chinese rivers, and were armed with heavy guns and congreve rockets.[128] Several of the larger British warships in China (notably the third-rates HMS Cornwallis, HMS Wellesley, and HMS Melville) carried more guns than entire fleets of Chinese junks.[174] British naval superiority allowed the Royal Navy to attack Chinese forts with very little risk to themselves, as British naval cannons out-ranged the vast majority of the Qing artillery.[174][189]
>British soldiers in China were equipped with Brunswick rifles and rifle-modified Brown Bess muskets, both of which possessed an effective firing range of 200–300 metres.[190] British marines were equipped with percussion caps that greatly reduced weapon misfires and allowed firearms to be used in damp environments. In terms of gunpowder, the British formula was better manufactured and contained more sulfur than the Chinese mixture.[190] This granted British weapons an advantage in terms of range, accuracy and projectile velocity. British artillery was lighter (owing to improved forging methods) and more maneuverable than the cannons used by the Chinese. As with the naval artillery, British guns out-ranged the Chinese cannon.[189]
>In terms of tactics, the British forces in China followed doctrines established during the Napoleonic Wars that had been adapted during the various colonial wars of the 1820s and 1830s. Many of the British soldiers deployed to China were veterans of colonial wars in India and had experience fighting larger but technologically inferior armies.[191] In battle, the British line infantry would advance towards the enemy in columns, forming ranks once they had closed to firing range. Companies would commence firing volleys into the enemy ranks until they retreated. If a position needed to be taken, an advance or charge with bayonets would be ordered. Light infantry companies screened the line infantry formations, protecting their flanks and utilizing skirmishing tactics to disrupt the enemy.[166] British artillery was used to destroy the Qing artillery and break up enemy formations. During the conflict, the British superiority in range, rate of fire, and accuracy allowed the infantry to deal significant damage to their enemy before the Chinese could return fire.[192] The use of naval artillery to support infantry operations allowed the British to take cities and forts with minimal casualties.[193][194]
>The overall strategy of the British during the war was to inhibit the finances of the Qing Empire, with the ultimate goal of acquiring a colonial possession on the Chinese coast. This was accomplished through the capture of Chinese cities and by blockading major river systems.[195] Once a fort or city had been captured, the British would destroy the local arsenal and disable all of the captured guns.[194] They would then move on to the next target, leaving a small garrison behind. This strategy was planned and implemented by Major General Gough, who was able to operate with minimal input from the British government after Superintendent Elliot was recalled in 1841.[196] The large number of private British merchants and East India Company ships deployed in Singapore and the India colonies ensured that the British forces in China were adequately supplied.[197][10]
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71abac No.685861
>>685860
>From the onset of the war the Chinese navy was severely disadvantaged. Chinese war junks were intended for use against pirates or equivalent types of vessels, and were most effective in close range river engagements. Due to their ships' slow speeds, Qing captains consistently found themselves sailing towards much more maneuverable British ships, and as a consequence the Chinese could only use their bow guns.[198] The size of the British ships made traditional boarding tactics useless, and the junks carried smaller numbers of inferior weaponry.[168] In addition, the Chinese ships were poorly armored; in several battles, British shells and rockets penetrated Chinese magazines and detonated gunpowder stores. Highly maneuverable steamships such HMS Nemesis could decimate small fleets of junks, as the junks had little chance of catching up to and engaging the faster British steamers.[174] The only western-style warship in the Qing Navy, the converted East Indiaman Cambridge, was destroyed in the Battle of First Bar.[199]
>The defensive nature of the conflict resulted in the Chinese relying heavily an extensive network of fortifications. The Kangxi Emperor (1654–1722) began the construction of river defenses to combat pirates, and encouraged the use of western style cannons. By the time of the First Opium War, multiple forts defended most major Chinese cities and waterways. Although the forts were well armed and strategically positioned, the Qing defeat exposed major flaws in their design. The cannons used in the Qing defensive fortifications were a collection of Chinese, Portuguese, Spanish, and British pieces.[200] The domestically produced Chinese cannon were crafted using sub-par forging methods, limiting their effectiveness in combat and causing excessive gun barrel wear. The Chinese blend of gunpowder contained more charcoal than the British mixture did.[190] While this made the explosive more stable and thus easier to store, it also limited its potential as a propellant, decreasing projectile range and accuracy.[201][190] Overall, Chinese cannon technology was considered to be 200 years behind that of the British.[202] Chinese forts were unable to withstand attacks by European weaponry, as they were designed without angled glacis and many did not have protected magazines.[195][203] The limited range of the Qing cannon allowed the British to bombard the Qing defenses from a safe distance, then land soldiers to storm them with minimal risk. Many of the larger Chinese guns were built as fixed emplacements and were unable to be maneuvered to fire at British ships.[204] The failure of the Qing fortifications coupled with the Chinese underestimation of the Royal Navy allowed the British to force their way up major rivers and impede Qing logistics.[195] Most notably, the powerful series of forts at Humen were well positioned to stop an invader from proceeding upriver to Canton, but it was not considered that an enemy would attack and destroy the forts themselves, as the British did during the war.[205]
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71abac No.685862
>>685861
>At the start of the war the Qing army consisted of over 200,000 soldiers, with around 800,000 men being able to be called for war. These forces consisted of Manchu Bannermen, the Green Standard Army, provincial militias, and imperial garrisons. The Qing armies were armed with matchlocks and shotguns, which had an effective range of 100 metres.[190] Chinese historians estimate 30–40% of the Qing forces were armed with firearms.[206] Chinese soldiers were also equipped with halberds, spears, swords, and crossbows. The Qing dynasty also employed large batteries of artillery in battle.[114]
>The tactics of the Qing remained consistent with what they had been in previous centuries.[206][207] Soldiers with firearms would form ranks and fire volleys into the enemy while men armed with spears and pikes would drive (described by the Chinese as Tuī (推) push) the enemy off of the battlefield.[208] Cavalry was used to break infantry formations and pursue routed enemies, while Qing artillery was used to scatter enemy formations and destroy fortifications.[209] During the First Opium War, these tactics were unable to successfully deal with British firepower. Chinese melee formations were decimated by artillery, and Chinese soldiers armed with matchlocks could not effectively exchange fire with British ranks, who greatly out ranged them.[210][166] Most battles of the war were fought in cities or on cliffs and riverbanks, limiting the Qing usage of cavalry. Many Qing cannon were destroyed by British counter-battery fire, and British light infantry companies were consistently able to outflank and capture Chinese artillery batteries.[203] A British officer said of the opposing Qing forces, "The Chinese are robust muscular fellows, and no cowards; the Tartars [i.e. Manchus] desperate; but neither are well commanded nor acquainted with European warfare. Having had, however, experience of three of them, I am inclined to suppose that a Tartar bullet is not a whit softer than a French one."[114]
>The strategy of the Qing dynasty during the war was to prevent the British from seizing Chinese territory.[114] This defensive strategy was hampered by the Qing severely underestimating the capacity of the British military. Qing defenses on the Pearl and Yangtze rivers were ineffective in stopping the British push inland, and superior naval artillery prevented the Chinese from retaking cities.[169][29] The Qing imperial bureaucracy was unable to react quickly to the prodding British attacks, while officials and commanders often reported false, faulty, or incomplete information to their superiors.[211] The Qing military system made it difficult to deploy troops to counter the mobile British forces.[212] In addition, the ongoing conflict with Sikhs on the Qing border with India drew away some of the most experienced Qing units from the war with Britain.[113]
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cb08a5 No.685918
>>685860
>>685861
>>685862
The British having a superior fleet combined with China generally being a logistical nightmare of mountains and deserts made all the difference.
China is basically a series of compartmentalized regions separated by nearly impassable terrain with only a few rivers going between them. Only way the Chinese could keep their communications going were by the canal system, which had been in use since antiquity. Once the Brits sailed up the Yangtze and cut the grand canal the jig was up for the chinks.
During the second opium war the chinks were preoccupied by the greatest civil war in the 19th century.
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97335e No.685931
>>685861
>Chinese ships were poorly armored
>The Chinese blend of gunpowder contained more charcoal than the British mixture did.[190] While this made the explosive more stable and thus easier to store
>Chinese forts were unable to withstand attacks by European weaponry, as they were designed without angled glacis and many did not have protected magazines
>Many of the larger Chinese guns were built as fixed emplacements
>it was not considered that an enemy would attack and destroy the forts themselves
>30–40% of the Qing forces were armed with firearms
Damn, this is worse than I thought. They'd basically built their entire navy, army, and defensive strategy around the assumption that they'd solely be doing policing actions for all of eternity.
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ebcf1e No.685937
Have the chinks ever won a war that wasn't among themselves?
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16bffb No.685938
>>685931
That's what happens with every great empire. You can see the same thing going on with the US Army, where the average infantry unit is used as a police force wearing camouflage, and special forces are just glorified SWAT teams. The main difference is that the US Army is currently playing world police.
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ebcf1e No.685941
>>685931
>They'd basically built their entire navy, army, and defensive strategy around the assumption that they'd solely be doing policing actions for all of eternity.
Yes. That's what the Chinese actually consider as "war" and even that only worked against fellow chinks when you realize how easily some of the most "successful" Chinese dynasties fell to simple barbarian marauders like mongols, manchus and even uighuroaches.
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b8746f No.685945
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33588e No.685950
>>685938
Hauntingly true. The current US-Army is a paper tiger. When, not if, they attack Iran, it's gonna be a massacre.
Inb4 the US experiences a Battle of Yalu River and several Kasserine Passes.
>>685852
Underrated post. That is exactly why the Chinese will never become a superpower. The largest economy, yes, but superower, no.
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7965fc No.685959
>>685931
>solely be doing policing actions for all of eternity.
They haven't changed from that path one bit.
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bf08d6 No.685967
>>685840
OP steel ships with real guns and jewish subversion opium addiction.
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b437ba No.685969
Central states eventually go form strong to weak over time. A man can be strong because he is naturally strong, or he can be strong because he is big, or he can be extremely strong if he is both. A rising nation centered empire is often both, naturally strong from national unity and tribalism and increasingly strong as it gains resources as it expands. Once the empire loses its national focus and becomes too big, it tends to lose its natural strength of nationalism and tribalism. It loses its natural strength and only has strength through size alone. Big, weak, and only powerful because of size. Easy living and comfort, the fact that centralized governments always are corrupt and self destruct, that easy living in a rich empire erodes morality and strength naturally, and one day you have the recipe for disaster.
The Chinese are not a warrior people like Japan. Also, the endless central state empires that came to power created the endless cycle of weak systems that were easy to destroy. One weak empire would fail to a stronger newcomer, and that newcomer would often become soft and weak in a surprisingly quick fashion. Like replacing a soft pine board in a wet environment and watching it rot quickly, replacing it with a fresh pine board and then expecting this one to somehow not turn out like the last one. Between the lack of China's natural military quality, like Germanic or Japanese people for instance, combined with weak and corrupt central governments replacing each other over and over creating dynastic cycles with many long weak points and most periods being rotten and weak empires whose only strength is "its so big, too big to lose" the history practically predicts and writes itself.
China suffered under foreign rule that was hostile to the people, exploitative. If this is not enough, the very nature of central statism is the same, even if they are of the same race and ethnicity the capital is filled full of power players who are building careers and power and aren't concerned with the nation, people, empire, lands, except how to exploit and rob them for their own wealth and ladder climb. People in every central state capital risk the eventual path towards not serving their people and nation, only the capital, only the State, only factions, only power playing. The place gets taken over by people more than happy to stab people in the back and sell their entire race or homeland into slavery if they get to be the broker. One day the empire could give a flying fuck about YOU, it only gives a fuck about itself, the empire. Ironically, the lack of husbandry is its downfall, it exploits the lands and people instead of building them up, and when they weaken the people and lands they destroy their own source of power. They fall and everyone says "well, they deserved it, for being corrupt and evil fucks" and they are right.
The Commies are increasingly appearing to be just another dynasty in the cycle, are they marching towards greatness and breaking the dynastic cycle? Or are they eventually going down the same path of failed central Statism and obsessive State power? Are they going to magically fix the corruption of China's old empire, or will they succumb the same way for the same reasons? Is the central committee going to magically change the Chinese into a warrior people they never really were? Can their own internal people control and means of governing, its fear of its own military and people, even allow a powerful military or effective anything?
All of today's central States are in decline, same as always. Eventually they are all on a path to eventual ruin as the people degrade and their corrupt systems become increasingly corrupt with no way to reform without decentralizing or losing favor or power, or attacking the "swamp" or politics they fear to change, maybe losing power themselves. "But, if everyone is being subverted and destroyed, there will be no strong barbarians to conquer anyone!" is a bad line, someone will keep their strength, someone will rise up, and the wretched state of affairs will change no matter how much they try to control and prevent it. They don't understand what is going to happen.
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ebcf1e No.685976
>>685852
>these people are supposed to replace Whites after their semitacally-induced self-genocide and safeguard civilization for ages to come
fug
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27f56b No.686029
>>685945
>Bum rush a position as the opponent is preparing to call it a day and sending troops back
>Opponent decides it's not worth fighting to keep the shitty land mass
>Winning
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27f56b No.686032
>>685969
> Are they going to magically fix the corruption of China's old empire, or will they succumb the same way for the same reasons?
Consider they installed an AI to track government corruption and disabled it a week later because it caught basically every low ranking official in government.
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62df70 No.686038
>>685945
The Vietnamese kicked their asses even after decades of fighting the French and Americans.
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497f56 No.686056
>>685945
A French anon made a good post about the Sino-Vietnam war and how it was literally just the new gook dictator sending all the old guards of Mao to die in intentionally suicidal missions
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b437ba No.686060
>>686032
Yeah, sounds about right. Nothing has changed.
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458e98 No.686069
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458e98 No.686070
>>685945
>vietnam
China invaded in order to save Pol Pot's regime from the gooks, which they failed at doing. Capturing some shitty mountain in the middle of nowhere isn't a victory if the ally you're attempting to save gets completely dabbed on and occupied.
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09e216 No.686072
>>686070
Vietnamese here, they fought the Vietcong to a standstill which is why the North Vietnam remains a bitch to China to this very day.
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653fc5 No.686074
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3f320f No.686086
>>686072
>>686070
The NV government "heroically" negotiated and signed some secret treaties with China that nobody knows wtf was written in them and normal citizens isn't allowed to ask because "national secrets, plebs". People who asked got gulag'd pretty quickly.
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167b83 No.686090
>>686056
>humiliating yourself on a global scale for the umpteenth time was all according to plan
>implying the Chinese needed a special excuse to purge anyone instead of just outright executing them like how they always did
People need to look at posts with a bit more of a fucking bullshit detector instead of seeing a lot of text and assuming its right.
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ebcf1e No.686143
>>686086
>>686072
Still on the tactical level you still raped the chinks.
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2da1b1 No.686146
When have the chinks ever outnumbered foreign opponents 10 to 1 and not either lost miserably or suffered disproportionate losses compared to their adversary?
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8116f8 No.686148
>>685950
Modern China is culturally homogenous, and coming second place in the race to control the moon. No amount of white supremacist sophistry will undo that.
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2da1b1 No.686151
>>686148
>white supremacist sophistry
Confirmed for here to shit up the thread
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8116f8 No.686153
>>686151
>waaaaaah muh echochamber
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4d9611 No.686154
>>686148
>>686153
go back to your shithole country chang
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ebcf1e No.686159
>>686148
Then why are you in a White man made country, wong?
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b437ba No.686163
>>686090
This is fact. Every race, tribe, ethnicity, government, State, all of them have their apologists somewhere. Beyond propaganda there are people who really do believe and pathologically make excuses for everyone, that's just the way things have always been. You can like Rome and still get disgusted with some of the people who say stupid shit like "if they would have won that campaign in North Africa and gotten those provinces back, the western empire would have totally gotten the money to recover and come back to its former glory in the end stage as they were over run by barbarians".
So, with propaganda and these apologists, which are universal, you get this shit a lot. "Ha, this embarrassing Chinese defeat was a tactical cunning victory!" or "they never intended on winning, they were sacrificing men on purpose as a cunning strategy" or whatever horseshit fits the pro-X apologist narrative. China's bad military history, even the modern stuff, is just papered up with excuses. Not surprising.
>>686148
> China is one nation, culturally, racially, ethnically homogeneous
Holy fuck kids, the trolls aren't even trying very hard nowadays.
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497f56 No.686164
>>686163
>>686090
I'm not being a fucking apologist you sperg
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97335e No.686167
>>686148
>coming second place in the race to control the moon
And Carthage came second in the race to control the Mediterranean.
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b437ba No.686190
>>686164
I was agreeing with you, not contradicting you.
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ebcf1e No.686206
>>686163
>the trolls aren't even trying very hard nowadays.
He's not exactly wrong. That "Han" are currently doing their best to assimilate into their altaic mongrelization every Sino-Tibetan ethnicity including the real chinks (which current ethnicity that is I can't remember, some anon here or in /pol/ posted a jewtube link of them singing traditional chinese poetry and they it was so melodic and fitting it finally made sense why the "Han" seem to be struggling to speak their "own" language).
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6804b1 No.686257
>>685843
>Empress Dowager.
She didn't even lived in 18th century.
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874c3d No.686272
>>686206
>if we blanda upp we will be racially homogenous
>doesn't impact their genetics due to them all being equally retarded
>the superior minorities are outbred
>>686257
the Opium Wars were in the 19th century.
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458e98 No.686277
>>686148
>when your country is so culturally homogeneous you have to set up concentration camps for the non-hans
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67ca74 No.686408
>>686277
Gotta remove all the unequals to create national ethnic equality.
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97e4c2 No.686422
>>686277
Well, once they're done they'll accomplish unity.
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0244a8 No.686424
>>686148
>culturally homogenous
The Han control a quarter of the landmass, do you know what "homogenous" means?
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175c88 No.686444
>>686148
China didn't even know the moon existed until white people told them about it.
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581d1c No.686501
>>686148
>Modern China is culturally homogenous
WRONG.
Northern China is different than Southern China.
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581d1c No.686502
>>686444
That's wrong too.
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ebcf1e No.686582
>>686444
Elaborate please. If anywhere near true that would be hillarious.
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175c88 No.686593
>>686582
I exaggerate, but when was the last time you heard the Chinese brag about something that wasn't a direct imitation of something white people did?
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b53c6e No.687117
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1b179c No.687166
>>686444
>>686582
they have two different concepts of the moon because the mythical version of the moon is different from the physical version, they somehow still believe in their traditional pagan religion even though none of it makes sense given modern knowledge.
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581d1c No.687169
>>687166
That makes no sense or whatsoever, what are you talking about?
China, like most east eastern culture, sees and acknowledges the moon.
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93687a No.687170
>>687166
Could you tell us about the mythical version?
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67ca74 No.687182
>>685969
Why can't every large Empire follow the Swiss model of cooperative Tribal isolationism?
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7cddc1 No.687186
>>687182
First of all, Switzerland isn't exactly a classic empire like the Chinese, Persian or Roman. As far as I understand, the Swiss first chased away everyone tell didn't like from their mountains, then collectively decided to leave each other alone as much as possible. These great empires are born because a group of people starts conquering other groups, and then the conquered eventually join the conquerors and go on conquering even more. Of course they eventually hit a limit. Still, this process requires a strong central state (although a primitive one works quite well, as long as it makes up for the primitiveness with even more strenght), and with a strong central state you can't have the Swiss model.
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ebcf1e No.687189
>>687186
> and then the conquered eventually join the conquerors and go on conquering even more
And then the fate of the empire is sealed by miscegenation.
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778b92 No.687225
>>685937
First Canadian Real Estate War.
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b437ba No.687227
>>687182
My Germanic brother, I wish for the same thing. Things were better off when we had many kingdoms, duchies, principalities. That we lived so well and had geo political balance because the various powers tended to fight for balance, that the local nobility spent their time running their fiefs instead of trying to conquer the world. That the men of the peaceful hills and valleys, the pastures in the mountains, could live that peaceful life, instead of being mobilized by one side or another to conquer the world.
Dig up that faggot Bismark and ask him. He fucked up a lot of things. The Holy Roman Empire was better than uniting Germany in retrospect.
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09e216 No.687228
>>687227
Bismark unites the various states back into Germany after the HRE was ended by Napoleon, retard.
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0244a8 No.687234
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09e216 No.687236
>>687234
The combined Europe Navy is still better than the chink's brown water navy.
Navy means jackshit anyway. For all the huffpuffing of chink navy, they can't do shit to VIetnam and pinoy mainland.
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0244a8 No.687237
>>687236
EU navy is mostly brown water diesel subs, corvettes and barely blue water frigates.
Carriers, cruisers, destroyers and nuclear subs can barely make one fleet put together.
But I was talking mostly about their army. Not counting stat boosters like Poland, all of EU has maybe 3000 Main Battle Tanks of which a low percentage is combat capable and most require months of refit before operational status. 90% of their armored vehicles are wheeled, over 100k of them, clearly meant for street to street policing and state terrorism. EU military basically exists to bully tiny countries into staying in the union.
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09e216 No.687238
>>687237
And it's still better than what the chinks have, currently. Chinks by now 2019 are still paper tigers and rely on Russia to project their strength while providing materiel support.
But in the future, I cannot say if europeans do not wake up.
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860982 No.687246
>>687227
>muh based actual d&c so mongols and napoleons can fuck us over
Not your "brother", mutt.
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d22c01 No.687251
>>687169
>>687170
Maybe it doesn't exist in Vietnamese. The mythical / cultural term for Moon in Chinese is 月亮 (month-light) and the scientific term is 月球 (month-globe). The moon landing would be the landing on the latter and not on the former because that would imply that you landed in the mythical land where the moon goddess lives with her pet rabbit which the Chinese worship with cakes every autumn during the Moon Festival.
in case you think they were pulled from my ass:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%9C%88%E4%BA%AE
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%9C%88%E7%90%83
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09e216 No.687252
>>687251
That's strange, moonlight literally means the light from the moon, it doesn't mean the celestial body that is the moon didn't exist.
I mean, there is various chinese myth of beautiful goddess Chang E/Heng E living on the moon with the jade rabbit.
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9ff150 No.687255
>>685840
Because the brits had iron-clad steam ships with enough guns loaded on each one to equal an entire fleet of junks not to mention rifled weapons and motherfucking rockets. Meanwhile the chinks were still using copies of copies of firearms they had bought over a hundred years ago and ships designed I fuck you not 2000 years ago.
When you have ships that are immune to enemy fire, can destroy enemy ships in seconds and can move many times faster its not hard to see how they cleaned up.
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7fab00 No.687261
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4504fa No.687268
>>687246
I especially like the
>That the men of the peaceful hills and valleys, the pastures in the mountains, could live that peaceful life, instead of being mobilized by one side or another to conquer the world
part. Peasants were pretty often conscripted to run off and fight wars that were hundreds of miles away from their homes.
I wonder if he genuinely believes it was all heavily armored knights and nobility slapping each other with swords that fought medieval wars and not mostly ignorant farmers getting shot in the face with arrows or impaled on pikes.
Not to mention the only thing that has ever kept nations from attempting to expand and make their own empires is lack of resources, because otherwise throughout the vast majority of human history people have had zero qualms about conquering as much land as tehy possibly could.
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022b58 No.687288
>>687236
>The combined Europe Navy
Given that Chinese Navy pilots with J-11 lost 9/1 against freaking turkroach F-4s in Red Flags I think our Navy alone woud suffice to sink their entire fleet.
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b437ba No.687300
>>687268
There was conscription, but nowhere near the levels the central states ever did, which is the point. When kings had to raise their armies from the nobles underneath them, their forces were limited and their ability to gather enough resources and manpower for major conquering was limited, and it lead to less conscription and more reliance on knights, professional soldiers and retainers, as well as mercenaries. Feudal states conscripted fewer men, relied on real warriors and soldiers, fought much more limited wars. The few serfs you might pick up for peasant levy in that system cannot be compared to the massive peasant levy systems of mass, mass conscription of central States and especially modern systems.
Also, the old peasant levy might be used more for labor and baggage trains, when they did fight they were expected to break and run with little discipline, they were placeholders and number buffers for the real center of the military force, which was the heavy infantry and cavalry. Today the conscript IS the center of the army. Two world wars show that there isn't going to be a few serfs conscripted to fight some limited war next time, instead the entire generation of men will be drawn and in purposely thrown into a suicide "throw em at the wall and see what sticks" strategy.
Oh, haven't you heard? Modern States are preparing to add women to the draft! So, at least the old system might draw up a few serfs, but the new system won't just draw every man of a wide age range to die in a worthless war, they will now do the great act of killing off the child bearing women!
>>687246
Say, how well is that German Republic keeping you safe from foreign invaders overrunning Germany? I hear if you keep worshiping the State and pray to Otto von Bismark, the refugees will assimilate faster!
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7cddc1 No.687302
>>687300
>When kings had to raise their armies from the nobles underneath them, their forces were limited and their ability to gather enough resources and manpower for major conquering was limited, and it lead to less conscription and more reliance on knights, professional soldiers and retainers, as well as mercenaries.
And guess what happened when the Kingdom of Hungary with this feudal system had to fight against the Ottoman Empire that could just drow our armies with superior numbers?
>Say, how well is that German Republic keeping you safe from foreign invaders overrunning Germany?
<put American vassals in charge of Germany
<act surprised when they are destroying Germany
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cef9ec No.687304
>>687302
The dude's clearly retarded.
I wish this fucking country would balkanize so I can either die, or live long enough to have a different flag to associate with.
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37e1d1 No.687308
>>685840
>why are subhumans subhuman?
I don't know anon, you tell me?
>>687304
>not wishing to cleanse it of every non-white like it should have been done in the 19th century
All the world's problems are very easy to fix, people just don't want to acknowledge the answers that are right in front of them.
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b437ba No.687309
>>687302
Yet decentralized Germany, the broken into a million independent states Holy Roman Empire that was a central power only in name and theory, managed to stop the Ottomans. Not a centralized empire. Can you blame all of Hungary's losses on centralism and decentralism? What about the armies the Turk's beat into the ground that were made of large armies of more average warriors?
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37e1d1 No.687310
>>687238
>the whole of the EU couldn't even bomb a shithole like Libya into submission and had to go cry bitch tears at the US to help them
>somehow be able to defeat the chink horde
Make note, this is not an endorsement of the chinks, but an acknowledgment of how Europe as a whole has fallen. Can anyone here seriously claim that the likes of modern France, England or Germany have the capacity to go to war, let alone the stomach for it?
>>687268
The more economically powerful the European nations became, the more capable they were of fielding standing armies of paid professionals - and the less they had to rely on knights and peasant levies to fight. At one point you had nobles buying whole batches of plate armor to equip thousands of troops with.
>>687309
Germany's current woes have nothing to do with centralization and everything to do with Jews and their traitorous allies.
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68ef0c No.687311
>>687309
>the broken into a million independent states Holy Roman Empire that was a central power only in name and theory, managed to stop the Ottomans
That's because the core of the Holy Alliance the Habsburg Monarchy that was basically Austria and Czechia (which was quite lot more German in those days) run under a single centralized state with the resources to supply the armies that did the fighting. And by the 17th century the Ottomans relied on woefully outdated tactics and equipment, and Europeans also became better at mobilizing greater armies, therefore the Turks were throughly beaten as they had nothing in their favour.
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192018 No.687315
>>687300
Say what you will about middle ages, bur I found it endlessly amusing when some English king called upon his subjects to muster for yet another fucking campaign, instead of thousands showing up, only few dozen knights and sergeants showed up. People had enough of king's retarded campaigns and simply did not show up, instead preferring to attend to their flocks and fields.
And my golly, the concept of lords waging war against other lords over people and resources is vastly more preferable to this fucking retarded concept of whole peoples being dragged to war to fight over some piece of paper or idea.
>>687236
You are full of shit and you have no idea what you are even talking about.
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09e216 No.687323
>>687300
>Say, how well is that German Republic keeping you safe from foreign invaders overrunning Germany? I hear if you keep worshiping the State and pray to Otto von Bismark, the refugees will assimilate faster!
What does Otto von Bismarck have to do with the Republic of Germany?
This faggot cuck man.
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09e216 No.687324
>>687315
>You are full of shit and you have no idea what you are even talking about.
Explain how?
inb4 China stronk
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d17d67 No.687439
>>687309
>Yet decentralized Germany, the broken into a million independent states Holy Roman Empire that was a central power only in name and theory, managed to stop the Ottomans. Not a centralized empire.
Well yeah, because you shouldn't belief modern lies about the Holy Roman Empire told for political convenience.
Its was an Empire that lasted a thousand years and already the first Emperor Charles I the Great, had to deal with Muslims.
>>687311
Ignoring two short reining exception the house of Habsburg continuously held the title of Holy Roman Emperor since 1415.
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739d59 No.687458
>>687300
The only kind of reply your kind deserve is "mutt".
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0244a8 No.687489
>>687315
That's why I'm a staunch royalist, 100% monarchy or go home.
Fuck democracy, fuck republics, fuck fascism, fuck communism, fuck everything. Monarchy is the only governmental system that survived longer than a few centuries, hell monarchies survived so long that humans have evolved to exist in a monarchy.
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ee36fc No.687492
>>687189
Race mixing isn't a problem as much as civilization mixing is.
Dead civilizations can be raped into inexistence as long as the one doing the raping is still alive (i.e. is capable of both self-defense and has a desire to expand)
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4b7399 No.687499
>>687492
You try and create a functional society out of mulattoes and halfcastes and let me know how that goes. Sure didn't go well for India.
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b437ba No.687504
>>687492
You can survive a cultural change, you can't survive genetic degradation. Human capital is the most important thing you have, once you have destroyed it its all over. The European races can suffer this neo liberal bullshit for a while, then eventually find its way back to strong old culture again and come back to greatness. It cannot survive being turned into genetic garbage and becoming a mixed race mud hole, it will then become a backwards wasteland forever and ever.
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1d4140 No.687505
>>685840
"traditional Chinese medicine" is ALL pure BS.
Opium works, at least for its purpose.
It would be like if we never had ANY electronics and then a Best Buy opened up downtown. No one is gonna listen to "dangers of cell phone addiction". They just gonna want some.
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ee36fc No.687506
>>687504
>you can't survive genetic degradation
Speaking from experience as an american?
>>687499
India died and was overtaken by a sickly-brown, more primitive "civilization".
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dda675 No.687507
>>687492
Please have a mulatto kid who hates you and keep your fetish to your self. You dont need to destroy civilization for everyone else for muh dick.
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d91475 No.687511
>>685845
They are low IQ compared to Whites. I know, I know all about the supposed 'IQ' testing but anyone who has worked, lived or been around bug people for any length of time knows that all they do is cheat at everything they put their hand to. There is not way that they are as high IQ as Whites and they are probably considerably lower, like in the mid 70's range based on historic genetic evidence.
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d91475 No.687514
>>687310
Go to war?
You mean leave their little children, women and young daughters in the hands of raping shitskins while they went off to fight for the globalists? That would be almost as insane as if Americans did the same thing and left their most precious thing on the planet; their DNA and heritage in the hands a spic and the open borders trash to 'go fight wars' for the globalists as well.
There would be nothing left for them to come home to, their children would have been kidnapped raped or killed and sold and their wives would have been raped, killed or enslaved in another part of the world.
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21774b No.687517
>>687511
>anyone who has worked, lived or been around bug people for any length of time knows that all they do is cheat at everything they put their hand to
The Chinese government only allows university students to take the IQ tests that they publish as their "national average". All the millions of 60IQ farmer peasants are never allowed to take the tests to drag the average down.
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d91475 No.687518
>>687517
Even their university students are not high IQ compared to 'average' Europeans. They are filtering out all the low IQ people but their best 'average' is not as high as just our normal average. If we didn't have invading hordes of subhuman trash in our nations we would be far superior to them in testing but you can't handicap us with people who have an IQ of 53 and expect that civilization (in any form) will continue, let alone be reflected in 'competitive IQ testing'. Civilization is a product of generational IQ and ability to sacrifice to reach a goal. Subhuman trash does not have this ability, this is why they have never formed any real or substantially worthwhile civilizations in the past. Most of the 'famous ruins' and other evidence for great civilizations came from people that they murdered and cannibalized the civilization AFTER they invaded. Otherwise the ability to build and sustain a civilization would be an integral part of their DNA, and it is not.
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4b7399 No.687519
>>687506
Oh yes all those indo-europeans just disappeared then a bunch of muds came out of islands to the south and replaced them. They totally didn't interbreed with them and form the shitty people known today as the modern Indian.
You have no idea what you're talking about. The modern Indian is a mix of several different races and they're shit. The caste system differentiates by whiteness because it's directly correlated with your intellectual worth.
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d91475 No.687521
>>687519
>directly correlated with your intellectual worth.
This is true all over the entire planet. Anyone who 'down breeds' to animal status or dicks mongrels is cutting off their progeny forever a civilized or intellectual future.
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4b7399 No.687522
>>687521
Yes, which is what I am trying to explain to the Pollack.
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d91475 No.687524
>>687522
Exactly. Only I would also say that it was directly correlated to your genetic worth over time, rather than something as arbitrary as 'intellectual worth'. I am not as smart as my mother (she was 180+ IQ) but my son is high IQ. So, the IQ breeds true which means that the civilization can be sustained over time. One high IQ in a sea of subhuman 60 IQ's can never sustain civilization. Our European/White civilization was maintained because the recessive DNA holds a consistent level of high trust, high IQ longevity by its nature. Negros having a GEDMATCH to chimpanzees have more genetic diversity which cannot sustain civilization because there is no one to pass the knowledge to generation to generation. Introducing high amounts of 'diversity' to the highly recessive true breeding European DNA will only result in the complete end of our civilization.
If we don't get radical and quit fucking the subhuman trash or even considering it to be 'breeding material' OF ANY SORT all of civilization will collapse and we will end up EXACTLY like the disgusting street shitters in India.
tl;dr you are 100% correct I feel I am preaching to the choir.
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55ed6f No.687526
>>687518
>Civilization is a product of generational IQ and ability to sacrifice to reach a goal.
>has never seen the way a pure modern euro acts nowadays
Protip: the shit "culture" imported from muttmerica, russia and produced from the retardation of boomer and 80s people is just as destructive as nigger and muttblood.
It is turning young euros into retarded niggers with pale skin. Who know they will never be punished for anything except being gnatzees.
Everyday it is looking more like evening for us and morgen for the chinks.
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8dc41f No.687528
>>687506
>Speaking from experience as an american?
>polish flag
Oh, the irony.
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55ed6f No.687530
>>687528
>implying bolan's own shit culture didnt result in the OG multikulti state and the nigger tier mentality
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75b509 No.687535
>>685840
>How were the British able to bring one of the most powerful nations in the world to it's so quickly and with so few soldiers?
>The Chinese outnumbered the Brits 10 to 1 and were on the defensive. They still should have had the advantage
Daily reminder that the only wars China has won are civil wars. The only thing weaker than a Chinaman is another Chinaman. Actually, I tell a lie. I forget the date but there was a single incident where several regiments of Chinese infantry were used to butcher a few hundred - unarmed - Russian farmers who wandered into Manchuria. China is still convinced that this was a glorious victory that they should be proud of.
It's also useful to remember that Britain wasn't interested in conquering/colonising China during the Opium wars. If we had been trying something like that then the inevitable guerrilla warfare would have made the occupation all but unmanageable given the sort of terrain you see in the Chinese interior. The British forces never went further inland than their naval fire support could reach; against armies of drug addled peasants - most of whom were still issued with spears - trained marines with heavy artillery support and better training, discipline, and equipment will have very little trouble. Once they'd secured the rivers, canals, and selected coastal fortifications it was pretty simple to push the Chinese government into making all the concessions they wanted.
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64da09 No.687538
>>687535
>I forget the date but there was a single incident where several regiments of Chinese infantry were used to butcher a few hundred - unarmed - Russian farmers who wandered into Manchuria
Wasn't that the start of the Boxer rebellion? A good read if you want a perspective on the Chinese is Ways that are Dark: The Truth About China
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97335e No.687540
>>687439
Hohenstaufen >>>> Habsburgs. The Emperor rules on Earth, not the pope.
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7965fc No.687541
>>687538
No, the Boxer Rebellion started because German Missionaries figured they could fix and tame chink society and in turn got murdered by guys who figured their shaolin shadowboxing and wutang sword style could beat western technology i.e.bullets, sioux levels of delusion. Their whole goal was fucked as well, they wanted to drive the foreigners out and in the end got shot by them while they murdered random peasants on the countryside as well as in Peking.
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89298e No.687543
>>687518
>>687518
>Athens
>99
Not sure who's to blame for this. The hundreds of thousands of albanians or the absolutely abhorrent school "education" we have
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978abb No.687549
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208843 No.687550
>>685969
>central statism
Suckling on your pinky to intuit the ways of the world is a true intellectual feat for libertarians.
sage for ot
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c2e33a No.687552
>>687541
>guys who figured their shaolin shadowboxing and wutang sword style could beat western technology i.e.bullets
To be fair, they only thought that because they believed they had magic superpowers and that armies of supernatural beings would fight along side them.
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fa516b No.687555
>>687550
>being a political "science" major
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75b509 No.687589
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>687552
>they only thought that because they believed they had magic superpowers and that armies of supernatural beings would fight along side them.
Are you suggesting that their 'just like one of my Japanese Anime's' tier thinking/beliefs are a point in their favour?
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d91475 No.687596
>>687595
Who wouldn't want to be electrically castrated by you jews?
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0244a8 No.687597
>>687526
>Protip: the shit "culture" imported from muttmerica, russia and produced from the retardation of boomer and 80s people is just as destructive as nigger and muttblood.
>culture imported from america
>culture imported from russia
>europe "imported" its problems
This is bullshit.
Europe exported their problems to the world when it sent the Frankfurt School to America.
The Frankfurt school then started the counterculture, the destruction of culture by hippies and boomers.
Only in the 1990s was this counterculture spread to Europe.
I don't know what the fuck you're talking about with Russia, the only thing Europe imports from Russia is gas and oil.
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d91475 No.687599
>>687597
>Europe imports from Russia is gas and oil.
and Bolsheviks? They did win WWII…there is a thread on /pol/ right now where some fag is trying to convince anons that Khazarians are German. It is pretty funny. No DNA testing for verification that they have German DNA just 'take their word for it' that semitic trash is 'German' and allow the invasion of Germany to continue.
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9e84ec No.687601
>>687597
>Europe exported their problems to the world when it sent the Frankfurt School to America.
They went to Burgeristan on their own, it's the Burgers fault for letting them in.
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d91475 No.687602
>>687601
>it's the Burgers fault for letting them in.
For not killing them and for continuing not to kill them today. BT taught them NOTHING.
>muh leadership, can't make a move without muh leadership
{helpless whimpering}
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13ae2b No.687612
>>687602
Teach us how to kill the invaders and traitors schnitzelkun, I'm sure you have much experience and are well on your way to liberating yourselves from zog
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9e84ec No.687614
>>687612
>zog
>a term used to describe the Federal Government of the USA
>only exists because those freedumb-lovin' 'muricans couldn't keep their freedumbs
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13ae2b No.687625
>>687614
How would you refer to the pro-israel jew run government that is the EU then hungry-san?
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9e84ec No.687634
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4d9611 No.687702
>>687310
>At one point you had nobles buying whole batches of plate armor to equip thousands of troops with
Got a source? Everything I've heard about the late medieval/early renaissance says that Brigandines were used by rank and file while proper full plate was too expensive to see much use aside from nobility and wealthy mercenaries. Many parts of a plate harness have to be custom fit to the owner or you can cause all sorts of problems.
>>687550
>completely failed to disprove anything he said
wew
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